What changes could Nash use in Season 3 of Street Fighter 5? Ixion gives his thoughts in this collaboration article

Another top player gives their piece on what their character needs for 2018

Posted by Nicholas 'MajinTenshinhan' Taylor • January 2, 2018 at 1:48 p.m. PST

Much like we did together with Tempo|Alex Myers regarding Cammy, this time the topic shifts to Nash.

Giving his opinions on this struggling character is IND|Ixion, famous from his prowess with Dan back in the Street Fighter 4 series, who has been playing Nash nonstop since Street Fighter 5's release.

Like the previous piece, this will be written with my words, but based on opinions IND|Ixion gave me about the character. I'm hardly a Nash expert myself, obviously.

There's a lot to say about Nash, especially from IND|Ixion, so let's kick off right away.

Nash's Specials

When it comes to Nash's Special Moves, the one Ixion feels needs improvement the most is his EX Sonic Scythe.

He begins by saying that it'd be nice to have a full reversal in it, but that some people, possibly including himself, might think that's a bit too much. So, his first proposition is to make it have fireball invulnerability.

Giving an example about it, he says "Nash gets a little bit too bullied in various scenarios, being one of thefew characters that has no reversal nor a 3-frame startup normal. Against Rashid for example, his EX Whirlwind xx V-Skill pressure is a non-stop pressure sequence you can do nothing about, which also pushes you into the corner easily."

"If EX Sonic Scythe was fireball invulnerable, at least there would be SOMETHING to do," he concludes, and elaborates further that this move should have a bigger hitbox at the back of it.

The reason is simple. In Ixion's own words, "For a move whose almost entire purpose is to anti-air, it saddens me when I react to a jump and the opponent somehow ends up behind me. This is a move that requires a reaction with a motion, and depletes one bar, with the sole purpose of anti-airing. You would think that it should be consistent at it, but it’s not quite".

He also notes that it would be nice if they could lessen its startup from 6 frames to 5 frames, since it does cost a bar after all, and there are some really oppressive jumpin normals present in the game. He also states that its hitbox at frames 1-2 should be reverted to their Season 1 status to make this anti-air move actually anti-air properly.

Moving on to other Special Moves, he notes that he'd like if Medium Sonic Scythe could be -9 frames on block instead of -10, given the high risk at throwing the move out. At the perfect spacing range for the move, it can still be punished by a full jumping if the opponent is prepared, leading to the move carrying a bit too high of a risk.

Another thing Ixion brings up is that EX Moonsault is a move you'd rarely ever use because of how slow it is, and even then, you'll end up flying past your opponent sometimes. It'd be nice if it could have a slight hitbox at the back as well to remedy this, since the move receives little use even as it is right now.

The final change to special moves in particular that Ixion brings up is on his normnal versions of Tragedy Assault. He notes how it feels wrong that this move is plainly beaten by slides. Since it's not a move you'd be able to react to slides with anyway, it's a strange interaction. There's a video below from Ixion's YouTube channel to show the phenomenon in question.


Moving on to Nash's V-System, Ixion begins by saying that his V-Skill is pretty lacking in general. He notes that if you do a Sonic Boom against an EX Projectile, to remove one hit of durability from it, and then try to absorb the remaining hit with V-Skill you won't get anything. So, the first suggestion is to make it so that Nash can absorb one hit off of an EX Projectile to give his V-Skill slightly more utility.

He also suggests that its recovery be reduced by one frame, since it doesn't do much for Nash in fireball wars in its current state.

As a general game suggestion, he notes that he's always thought each character should have 2 V-Skills, rather than even the 2 V-Triggers coming in Arcade Edition, largely because some V-Skills (such as Nash's) become completely useless depending on the matchup. If there's no projectile to absorb, Nash's V-Skill becomes inert.

Regarding Nash's V-Trigger, Ixion notes that there might be an unintended nerf that happened between Season 1 and Season 2. While the startup was increased from 2 frames to 4 frames, and this was documented, the grounded version of his V-Trigger now also places him further away from the opponent, leading to poor confirms.

"I would like this reverted, because I don’t see why a nerf like this was necessary. I’m not even sure it was mentioned in the patch notes. I’m actually not sure it was even intentional," he remarks.

As for Nash's V-Reversal, he thinks it got nerfed a bit too harshly in Season 2. He mentions that he doesn't necessarily think it needs to be reverted to its Season 1 status, but if they could give him back maybe half of what they took away, it would go a long way for him.

He concludes, about Nash's V-Reversal, "Using a V-bar to get out of pressure, only to be backgrabbed back into the corner really doesn’t feel all that fair for a character with no reversal and no 3-framer."

Nash's Normals

When it comes to Nash's Normals, Ixion first brings up that he thinks his forward heavy punch should be -11 instead of -13 on block. The reasoning is the same as he had for his Medium Sonic Scythe, where it's already such a risky move to throw out since it can get countered with a full jumpin, so there should be some more incentive to do so.

He further mentions that he wants Nash's jumping medium kick to be reverted to its former status, since Nash's walkspeed isn't fast enough to position yourself to begin with, and having a lacking crossup makes it very difficult to open your opponents up. "This nerf really wasn’t fair, and I want to see it reverted," he notes.

Speaking of reverting things, he also notes that he wants Nash's standing medium punch to be back at 13 frames of recovery on whiff, instead of the 15 it's at now. He cites that other moves like Balrog's standing heavy kick, Karin's standing heavy kick and Rashid's crouching heavy punch still being allowed to be terrifying should allow Nash to have something small like that be harder to punish on whiff as well.

Nash's Chopping Assault, his overhead move, is currently +1 on hit and -6 on block. Ixion says these frames feel pretty unreasonable given the low reward you get from the move. He notes that the best case scenario after an overhead that hits is getting a light button trade against characters who have 3-frame normals, and also notes this is something other characters like Urien suffer with when it comes to their overhead moves.

He also says that with a move that, when successful, gives 60 damage and no followup, it being -6 feels a bit excessive since that's a pretty hefty punish. Instead, he suggests the move be +2 on hit and -4 on block, so that it still won't combo and will still be punishable, but not to the same extreme degree.

Moving on to Nash's Knee Bazooka, Ixion says he doesn't think that the move gets rewarded adequately when spaced properly. "You may not know that getting the perfect spacing on the Knee Bazooka as Nash is actually extremely specific. I don’t really mind that, however I do mind that you get zero reward for doing so," he laments.

Currently, if spaced perfectly, you end up being at neutral frames next to your opponent. For Nash, a character with no 3-frame moves, this isn't necessarily an advantageous position, so Ixion notes that it would be nice if you could end up being +1 or perhaps even +2 if you space the move perfectly.

While on the subject, he also notes that Guile's Knee Bazooka should be harder to get positive frames off of, since he has a particularly easy time doing so. He further says that the hurtbox at the bottom of Knee Bazooka should be removed. "A move whose animation has no bodypart at the floor, should simply not be able to get hit there. Floating in the air with this move, only to be crush countered by a sweep, just feels so wrong", he states.

Next, he talks about Nash's Raptor Combination target combo, more specifically the situation where you whiff the first move (standing medium kick) and go into standing heavy kick. He notes this is a fun tool to use in footsies, and gets juggle properties if you anti-air with it.

But, it's -10 on block, and there's no spacing that makes it safer. Although he notes that it rarely gets punished, because of opponents not expecting it, he says it would be nice to have it be -8 instead of -10 to make it slightly less risky.

He elaborates further that "If it also gained two frames of advantage on hit, it would make more sense to use as it as an anti-air since then you would actually have time to juggle into EX Scythe more often."

His final suggestion as far as Nash's normals go might prove controversial - he suggests that Nash could perhaps get a 3-frame move in his standing light kick.

He doesn't bring it up lightly, though. He says that he personally believes the game would be more fun if there weren't any 3-frame moves at all, but that since that's not going to happen, it would be nice if Nash could get this if he doesn't get the aforementioned fireball invincibility on EX Sonic Scythe, since he needs at least one of them to stave off the bullying he is often subject to in the current state of the game.

Other miscellaneous changes

Ixion's first note about Nash in this area is that he'd like his grab range to be improved. "A bad walkspeed combined with a short grab range is bound give the character a hard time when applying offense. I understand Nash is meant to shine in the neutral (although ironically he has some serious issues in the neutral), which means some sacrifices are being made in his defense and his rushdown… But the grab range is just too bad for him."

He also notes that he wants Nash's backdash to go further than it currently does, though not back at Season 1 levels but rather somewhere in-between.

He likens this to his earlier suggestion about the character's V-Reversal. "Give him back 50% of what he had before, just like in the case of his V-Reversal. Inputting a backdash midscreen simultaneously as the opponent happens to throw a fireball, and the fireball actually punishes your backdash, feels so sad."

Another idea is to increase the speed of Nash's backwards walk, noting that the shimmies people often fall for aren't actually real and can be grabbed. He mentions that he doesn't mind the forward dash nerfs Nash received for Season 2, but that this compounded with his lacking walkspeed makes his shimmy potential very lacking.

His final suggestion to balancing Nash's current moves is to reduce the startup of his Critical Art from 10 frames to 9 frames.

"Every once in a while you go with Super for anti-airing, and with the game’s native input lag, it sometimes doesn’t hit in time," he says, and continues that he'd rather see the game's input lag reduced, but since he doubts that'll happen, he's hoping for startup reductions on Nash's Critical Art and EX Sonic Scythe instead.

Adding some flair

Although the balance changes detailed above are the important part, Ixion also spoke a bit about ideas he had for adding some extra spice to Nash, and make him more fun.

To mitigate how much Nash suffers from being stuck in the corner, he suggested it could be fun to give him a wall jump Moonsault, where you do a qcf+kick in the air, and if your back is against the wall he'll moonsault out.

Another point was to give Heavy Sonic Scythe the same type of juggle capacity as the Light and Medium versions. "Sometimes you hit you opponent high up in the air with nj.HK, leading to a juggle opportunity. If H. Scythe worked here (just like L. Scythe and M. Scythe) it would be a flashy juggle leading into oki, working as a reward for having hit your opponent so high up at first."

A suggestion Ixion gives to make Nash a bit easier for new players to get into is to let him hold his V-Skill. He says the timing to absorb projectiles isn't as easy as you might think, so if you gave Nash the capacity to hold the button and keep his hand out, but give him less V-Meter gain from doing so, it'd make it less scary for new players to try to absorb projectiles.

He also notes that the move's hitbox should probably be removed after activation if this holding function were added, though.

Further talking about spicing up his V-Skill, he says that it would be a nice addition if he could special cancel the last few frames after an absorption.

"Nash actually gives up quite a few frames in the fireball war using his V-Skill. It would be a nice spice to the character to be able to cancel the last 3~ absorb-recovery frames into a special, and that way take up some more space in the fireball war," he explains.

His final suggestion to add flair to Nash is to make his V-Skill linkable on counter hit. He says that it's obvious that Capcom wanted V-Skills to be used more, but Nash's is unrewarding to use.

He elaborates this idea by saying "What if V-Skill was +8 on counter hit? That way you could link it into a cr.MK xx VTrigger, or a cr.HK. Could be cool? I’d be fine with it still being -5 on block."

Massive thanks to IND|Ixion for regailing us with his insight into Nash, and we hope Capcom has kept this character in their thoughts a bit in their upcoming balancing.

What do you guys think about these Nash suggestions? Let us know in the comments.

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