'This game caters to noobs and is scrub friendly' - a look through FGC history shows it repeating itself

Posted by Jonathan 'Catalyst' Grey • March 14, 2017 at 8:09 p.m. PDT

If you think that the latest Capcom fighting game is catering to newbies and is too scrub friendly — you're not alone.

Actually, you've got over 20 years of similar statements being made by the fighting game community backing you up.

While you might think statements about dumbing down these games and trying to introduce them to a causal audience originated with Street Fighter 4 — many these phrases date back to the 1990s.

To help research this story, I took a deep dive back into the old alt.games.sf2 newsgroup, which was a popular hangout for Capcom fighting game players in the 1990s.

Many of the things said could easily be transposed onto today's titles.

The responses below have only been edited to provide clarity. The sometimes very poor grammar has been kept intact.

Note: The author's names haven't been included in these posts, as some of them are actually well known people in the community, and the point of this story isn't to put anyone on blast, but to show the mindset of some of the players in the mid to late 1990s — and how it reflects what we see now.

Street Fighter Alpha series


"It's because Street Fighter Alpha 2 is for scrubs, and so many players who could never hope to hang with the best in SF2, are now getting 'their turn' to be good, with SFA2's ease of play, particularily because of Custom Combos and their ridiculously easy startup."

"SFA2 has a lot of scrub-friendly features, like the cheaper Alpha Counters."

"Scrubs didn't stand a chance against the top players in [Super Turbo]... much less against the very best."

"I don't mean make it scrub-friendly like the Street Fighter Alpha's designers were thinking. I was thinking about stuff to legitimately add gameplay to the game and balance."

"Did you know Capcom makes two types of games? Games for your average scrub and games for super scrubs. It's true. 'Expert' fighting game players are considered an aberration by the industry, and should mostly be ignored when they contradict the masses."

"[He] hit the nail EXACTLY on the head when he said that Capcom made V-ism and custom combos too powerful to compensate for the fact that the 'super' must be done manually. The average scrub cannot effectively do a V-combo, so they gave the V-combo other abilities to make up for."

"Guard crush is a scrub friendly feature that makes it easy to land level 3 supers. I love watching Ken players get a guy into DANGER and then do a random level 3 that kills. Good thing there's AC..."

"Guard crush, along with these ridiculous juggles, are weak and should be eliminated."

Given the above statements, you'd think that the Street Fighter Alpha series didn't enjoy much time as a tournament game, but both SFA2 and SFA3 had their time in the limelight, and many fans in the FGC still look upon these games with great favor for the joy they provided.

The Vs. games


"Personally, I don't hate [the Vs. games]. I find them fun, but after playing them a while, it rots your brain. Everything chains into everything."

"My point is that the Vs. games are chock-f***ing FULL of scrub-freindly features, the kind of stuff that rewards maneuvers with gains out of proportion to the difficulty with which their executed. THAT'S why they're GARBAGE."

"Scrubs have a hard time doing Supers in pre Vs. SF games because of the double motions it requires and you can see them trying to do it from a mile away."

"The VS games have rotted my brain so badly that I think the game is skillful because I can beat these braindead pixie users. The mere suggestion that the Marvel engine produces strategy anywhere near that of SF is absurd. Stick with Bison posts, Generation M'er..."

"While it's a known fact in this [newsgroup] that the Vs. series is scrub-friendly, my question lies else where."

"Simply put, scrubs do not exist in [Street Fighter 3 2nd Impact]. You may find someone once in a while who can occasionaly parry, turtles, and wiggles the joystick like mad attempting to do a Super. But the fact is, a player of this caliber will never come close to playing a top-flight 2I player. The same cannot be said for the Vs series."

While most of these comments were made made before Marvel vs. Capcom 2 dropped in 2000, you can see that a lot of people thought the Vs. series was total trash and just there to capture casual players.

Perceptions changed over time, but there was a large part of the community that hated these games.

While the Street Fighter 3 series didn't suffer as much from being labeled a scrub game, many people didn't take too kindly to it, at first.

The Street Fighter 3 series


"They bring back chain combos [to Street Fighter 3] which were universally reviled by people who know what they're talking about as scrub tools."

"I like the super jumps, and parries, but these could not make up for the fact SF3 is boring."

"They're are major problems with the parrying system. I think Capcom purposely slowed down SF3 to make parrying a viable option. Given Alpha 3's lightning speed, no non-Alex Valle would be able to parry a thing."

"The biggest complaint I've heard so far is 'I think the SF3 series is boring.'"

"SF3 had every chance. It didn't do well because it was a) boring b) abusive, and c) overhyped."

"Parrying takes some skill, yes... but once you know the skill, you've just lowered the game into something very very boring, since all you'll do is poke and try to avoid being parried yourself."

We don't have to look too far in our past to find recent examples of similar quotes. While the above statements mostly came from the mid to late 1990s, these comments about Street Fighter 4 come from right here on EventHubs, circa 2010.

The Street Fighter 4 series


"Way to cater to the casual fans while ignoring the pleas of the old school players."

"SF4 is so catered to scrubs the game has gotten to be so defensive it actually makes Chun vs Chun in 3rd strike look super offensive."

"SSF4 = scrubfest 2010."

"The most technical thing SF4 has to offer is FADC."

"The whole point is to make the game more user friendly because Capcom can't survive with nothing but whiny, 'hardcore' fans."

"Seriously every time i here 'accessible' and 'casual friendly' i know there gonna have some baby mode bs added. Yea they made it simplier but how many vets either dont play or fantasize about a game where some scrub ken cant get a dp reversal because hes rolling his face across the buttons."

"In 3rd strike you had to be smart to pull off a win against a good player. There was a pary system that was scrub an idiot proof, and ryu was'nt over powered and scrub friendly either..."

"SSF4 is becoming a scrub game, way too noob friendly."

"SF3 Was way more difficult [than SF4] and wasn't scrub friendly."

"No there Capcom is making the game easier. SSF4 AE is gonna be EVEN more scrub friendly."

"It's not a matter of not being able to deal with changes, it's a matter of changes being unnecessary or extreme just to make it scrub-friendly."

It's not all bad of course.

There were many occasions where players in the community correctly evaluated gameplay aspects early on, and predicted if a game would take off or fail, from a competitive standpoint.

Still, if there's one thing we can say for sure, new fighting games from Capcom will often be labeled as "scrub friendly" and catering too much to a casual market.

As many smarter people than me have said, history repeats itself.

Comments

NoizyChild said on March 14, 2017 at 8:12 p.m.

I've been saying this for years.

People like to call games "scrub friendly" to soothe their egos after getting a beating from someone they felt they shouldn't have lost to.

Don't worry, when MVC:I comes out, the cycle will begin anew.

#1
Sir_Kenjamin said on March 14, 2017 at 8:14 p.m.

The only comment that needs to be made.

#2
FengShuiMachine said on March 14, 2017 at 8:15 p.m.

This man speaks nothing but the truth

#3
ILoveSakura said on March 14, 2017 at 8:15 p.m.
(This comment was hidden because it was down voted. You can view it by clicking here.)
#4
Catalyst said on March 14, 2017 at 8:17 p.m.

Funny thing is many old school players thought SF2 was the pinnacle of the series, until maybe a few years after SF3 3s was out and people caught on to the depth that was there.

Almost everything was held up to Super Turbo, and games that deviated too far from that title, were often labeled scrub games.

Another bit... when super moves were introduced to ST, many people thought those were scrubby too. :P

#5
pressstart said on March 14, 2017 at 8:18 p.m.

They all have their own fans and audiences. Just like SF4 and SF5.

#6
RunningWildVidya said on March 14, 2017 at 8:19 p.m.
(This comment was hidden because it was down voted. You can view it by clicking here.)
#7
Kijui said on March 14, 2017 at 8:20 p.m.

This really puts things into perspective....

#8
Ponyo2015 said on March 14, 2017 at 8:20 p.m.

well every sf game is very different which is a good thing Imo.

every iteration has its good and bad parts and everyone has their opinion but lately People go to far with complaints.

it takes the fun away

#9
SirRetro08 said on March 14, 2017 at 8:22 p.m.

It will never end...

#10
Ponyo2015 said on March 14, 2017 at 8:26 p.m.

also People wite their opinions as facts or statements.. and everyone that disagrees is a scrub noob idiot etc.

#11
ihira said on March 14, 2017 at 8:29 p.m.

Another common thing from FGC vocalists are comments like #4 and #7 where they're so convinced that game X is 'the best' as if its some measurable objective fact.

Liking a particular title is fine and all but they seem very blind when it comes to different people have different tastes and reasons for liking it. They feel the need to condescend other titles and its players.

#12
FengShuiMachine said on March 14, 2017 at 8:31 p.m.

Sf2 is what made the genre popular without it maybe fighting games would not be where they are.

Enough said

#13
vII_BATMAN_IIv said on March 14, 2017 at 8:33 p.m.

Let's just move this ship along:

"SF6 is absolute garbo. Way to cater to scrubs with this whole 'block to avoid damage' nonsense. "

#14
FengShuiMachine said on March 14, 2017 at 8:35 p.m.

I agree nerf mike in sf6 please capcom nerf her!!!

#15
minato808 said on March 14, 2017 at 8:35 p.m.

Just like what you like and don't let anyone influence your decisions. I'm okay with bashing games but at least have a basis for it. I've at least played all the games I talk about.

#16
TWOB1GUNZ said on March 14, 2017 at 8:38 p.m.

Could simply mean they've been making the games easier and easier with each iteration. Simple as that. Each version has been considerably easier than the previous. Also means the easier they make it the MORE MONEY THEY MAKE so why not make it easier each time is their logic

#17
chemicalBirdkick said on March 14, 2017 at 8:40 p.m.
(This comment was hidden because it was down voted. You can view it by clicking here.)
#18
Shinpaisuru said on March 14, 2017 at 8:40 p.m.

Thank you for putting this up. Those who are new should read this. Still haters gonna hate, there's always those who climbed aboard the "hate wagon" no matter what Capcom do with their game.

#19
BlackGuile said on March 14, 2017 at 8:41 p.m.
(This comment was hidden because it was down voted. You can view it by clicking here.)
#20
malcrash01 said on March 14, 2017 at 8:41 p.m.

It's like the equivalent of The Sonic Cycle, it will, sadly, repeat itself.

#21
Ponyo2015 said on March 14, 2017 at 8:42 p.m.

oh are we going the "game x vs game y route" again? if so you miss the point of this article.

#22
DonnieRizzle said on March 14, 2017 at 8:42 p.m.

The comments on the Vs. series are pretty right on. Lol.

#23
Ponyo2015 said on March 14, 2017 at 8:44 p.m.

exactly!! so much this!

#24
StreetPussy said on March 14, 2017 at 8:44 p.m.

*Grabs popcorn*

#25
malcrash01 said on March 14, 2017 at 8:45 p.m.

By that, I mean: Fans will rejoice when the game is revealed, then gameplay is shown and the mechanics easily worry the fans and once the game is released, the complaints commence

#26
Ponyo2015 said on March 14, 2017 at 8:48 p.m.

no i do not agree with your statement.

new sf games have more mechanics to work with and more flexibilty in movement and combo potential than older.

#27
delamarche said on March 14, 2017 at 8:48 p.m.

Any article that begins with "I went back and read old newsgroups" get an automatic <3 from me haha. Great idea for a post!! Would love to see other "great moments in history" from this newsgroup. I might go take a look myself.

#28
Lord_Poupo said on March 14, 2017 at 8:49 p.m.
(This comment was hidden because it was down voted. You can view it by clicking here.)
#29
Blackoshinomi said on March 14, 2017 at 8:53 p.m.
(This comment was hidden because it was down voted. You can view it by clicking here.)
#30
Ponyo2015 said on March 14, 2017 at 8:54 p.m.

yes! sf5 is so casual that Noobs are winning from pro's!!!

they are winning all the tournaments right??

#31
Cmon_Get_Serious said on March 14, 2017 at 8:55 p.m.

Just like how the old saying goes:

The more things change, the more they stay the same

#32
Xar5000 said on March 14, 2017 at 8:56 p.m.

SFV is so scrubbery. It has so many scrub friendly features to the point where its scrubbing players brains. It's a game made by scrubs, for scrubs.

-Xar5000

#33
downvote said on March 14, 2017 at 8:58 p.m.

Eventhubs comments in a nutshell.

I'm going to predict the future comments now.

"SF6 is super scrub friendly and caters only to casuals, everyone will go back to SFV Season 5."

#34
Retsuki said on March 14, 2017 at 9 p.m.

I just think that when the majority of the sequel fanbase actually comes from the predecessor. When the vets moved on and list out pros and cons of the sequel, there is always some that were stubborn and tried to bash the sequel with a passion when they were forced to change.

#35
AngriestRetalinUser said on March 14, 2017 at 9 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#36
MrBrown said on March 14, 2017 at 9:03 p.m.

I have supported SFV as much as a person can threw out is first year of existence and the only problems I have is the lack of defensive mechanics in the game, being able to zone, and the server maintenance times. SF4 may have had some problems, but it allowed characters like Ryu to be played many different ways. In SFV, that is much harder to do because of the meta of SFV. Rush down and meaties. I kinda of miss being able to crouch tech. At least I wasn't put into the blender with tick throws on every single jump in.

#37
ygolonac said on March 14, 2017 at 9:04 p.m.

Some arguments are credible others aren't. Their ubiquity would suggest something is fundamentally wrong even if it it can't be expressed or identified articulately.

The alternative is to think regression is impossible and any accusation of such must be due to psychological need to rationalize inadequacies.

#38
AngriestRetalinUser said on March 14, 2017 at 9:04 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#39
GodLezz said on March 14, 2017 at 9:04 p.m.

Catalyst, maybe the last eventhubs member that speaks some logic, even tho he did hype the community with a "march balance patch" that was never announcedin the first place, but at least he's not on the "all these op/broken characters and this stupid game" bandwagon, like ve.....

On a side note... Damn nice article.

#40
Ponyo2015 said on March 14, 2017 at 9:04 p.m.

can we do a nominee for the best sf5 bashing/whine/hate comment???

some here make it a sport.

#41
Aluppoj said on March 14, 2017 at 9:06 p.m.

Catalyst, I've been here for a long time. And this is my personal favorite post of yours.

I've highlighted this issue (and even argued about it) several times.

Your story validates my plight.

Thank you. 👍

#42
AngriestRetalinUser said on March 14, 2017 at 9:07 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#43
Retsuki said on March 14, 2017 at 9:08 p.m.

What your talking about? Literally everyone who dares to go to ranked online/tourneys ensures that they can do BnB and the hardest combos consistently in the lab. The differences are always MU knowledge and decision making or neutral game. Everyone should know the fundamentals.

#44
MrBrown said on March 14, 2017 at 9:08 p.m.

There is only one green comment in the comment section so far, and it kinda sounds like your calling him out. Will NoizyChild accept this challenge? FT 5? Put your money where your mouth is!

#45
NoizyChild said on March 14, 2017 at 9:11 p.m.

Lions don't pay attention to monkeys.

I'd beat him in my sleep, provided he even plays the game in the first place.

No need to even waste my time on a scrub like that.

#46
MrBrown said on March 14, 2017 at 9:12 p.m.

Ha, I love it.

#47
Fallenrose777 said on March 14, 2017 at 9:13 p.m.

FlameBaitHubs

#48
Retsuki said on March 14, 2017 at 9:14 p.m.

I bet your using rog. Even if he lost, I'm sure he'll be saying rog is broken etc. He's definitely one the professional haters/whiners.

#49
shakunetsu said on March 14, 2017 at 9:15 p.m.

The best ^^

#50
Blackoshinomi said on March 14, 2017 at 9:16 p.m.
(This comment was hidden because it was down voted. You can view it by clicking here.)
#51
Catalyst said on March 14, 2017 at 9:24 p.m.

Thanks for the feedback. Very happy you liked the piece.

#52
NoizyChild said on March 14, 2017 at 9:25 p.m.

Please reinstall it, so I can beat the living daylights out of you. Please.

#53
Spades said on March 14, 2017 at 9:27 p.m.

You know what's not scrub-friendly?
Fighting Games.

You know WHAT is scrub-friendly?
-Throwing Touch Controls in Fighters that don't need them.
-Street Fighter x Tekken's Horrible Gem System.
-MVC3's Simplified "One-Button Combos/Special/Supers" Controls.
-Allowing ALL of these Simplified/Touch Controls in Online Ranked Matches.

No. Just No.

#54
Blackoshinomi said on March 14, 2017 at 9:30 p.m.
(This comment was hidden because it was down voted. You can view it by clicking here.)
#55
BMTrajan said on March 14, 2017 at 9:32 p.m.
(This comment was hidden because it was down voted. You can view it by clicking here.)
#56
Afterburn said on March 14, 2017 at 9:32 p.m.

There's a difference between blind hate and legitimate complaints. And I'm hoping that this article doesn't exist just as an attempt to blanket the 2 as 1 in order to protect the current golden goose: SFV.

#57
MrBrown said on March 14, 2017 at 9:37 p.m.

My money is in NoizyChild! Let the betting begin. Nothing better than a little healthy competition, right?

#58
Kavey said on March 14, 2017 at 9:37 p.m.

Are you guys serious? People have been saying nostalgia and fanboyism have made trashing games a cool thing since forever.

At the same token I hate these types of posts all they do is stimulate fanboy flamewars even more.

#59
Xykes said on March 14, 2017 at 9:38 p.m.

Get outta here. EH has written plenty of negative SF5 articles.

Sorry if this isn't one of them.

#60
Thelaw3110 said on March 14, 2017 at 9:39 p.m.

No wonder capcom doesn't pretend to listen, they've been hearing this s**t for 20 years. Love you capcom.

#61
Havon said on March 14, 2017 at 9:45 p.m.

SFIII's complaints are the most benign to be honest it's not anything to do with the technical gameplay just a bunch of boring comments which is completely subjective and rally not a big deal to people .... who think it's hype.

SFIV on the other hand..... Nearly all technical complaints.

#62
RandomSelectMaster said on March 14, 2017 at 9:45 p.m.

If you have skills, there is no complaint. We all lose matches ever so often to different play styles, so again, where is there room to complain? If the game is a one button game with no other controls, maybe that's a scrub friendly game.

#63
Brainwizer said on March 14, 2017 at 9:53 p.m.

Not feeling the cherry picked examples to make a point. I'd at least like to see large comment areas so that I can have a bit of context, or a discussion in which some of these comments took place or at the very least the identities of the individuals that made the comments so I can know their position of bias.

#64
Biokay said on March 14, 2017 at 10:09 p.m.
(This comment was hidden because it was down voted. You can view it by clicking here.)
#65
roknin said on March 14, 2017 at 10:12 p.m.

Yup, exactly.

And I know it's heresy to mention this game, but SFxT went through the same exact ****, while the people that actually played it had to go out of their way to prove that no, the game wasn't scrubby and had merit. But these same EXACT complaints come up every. single. time.

Hell it's not even a Capcom-only thing. Re: the Smash series.

The fact of it is, gamers in general have no idea what the **** they actually want, and trying to please them all is literally impossible. Not to remove blame from the devs (ie., SFV has legitimate content and QoL issues that are egregious) but man... it has to be legit MADDENING to go through this with every release.

Like, I can't even talk as though I'm immune either, because I've done it (SFIV, Tekken 4, Tekken 6).

#66
Gellus said on March 14, 2017 at 10:15 p.m.

As a 3rd Strike player, seeing Vanilla for the first time was like the most "wtf" moment i ever experienced as a fighting game player, i hated every single thing about it, it took time to realize it was a different game and try to enjoy it (i still don't enjoy it a lot by the way, Dudley is the only reason i managed to stand playing the game, if he wasn't there in super, i would probably never touch this title again)

Anyway, i see were the V complaints are coming from, people like me that are pissed their favorite game got replaced (just switch 3rd Strike with USF4 and SF4 with SFV) they are eventually going to get used to it and accept they are different games or just stop playing, but the SF community will keep going regardless

One thing i don't think is healthy tho is the current pro scene, think about how many godlike 3rd Strike players that either disappeared or are still just playing 3S, why is that? Because 3S and other SF games are different and the 3S pros are 3S pros, they want to play that game and not any other, and this is totally normal, 3S pros left, 4 pros appeared, some players that just play every game like Daigo or JWong moved on, normal right?

But Esports came and now the SFV pro scene on the other hand is just basically the same as 4 since those players are now paid and sponsored, they used to be pro SF4 players, but now they are just pro SF players, which doesn't make sense since all titles are different and with some exceptions that play almost every game, most of the community is playing because they like that game alone, this creates a weird situation were a pro SF4 player is playing a game that is not the game he likes just because of money, which is not okay and creates some hatred for the game that is imo undeserved

For example, Infiltration complaining a lot about SFV S2, a lot of people are using his opinions as a way of saying "SFV is sh*t, if that pro thinks that, nobody can disagree" but i think differently, is it really that weird that a guy that loved SF4 and started by playing that game is going to dislike V? Many 3S pros hated 4 and never touched the SF franchise again, does that mean 4 was bad? No, just different players enjoying different games

#67
Clamper said on March 14, 2017 at 10:16 p.m.
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#68
Nevran said on March 14, 2017 at 10:21 p.m.

I don't know if you guys saw it but Gustavo (Strider 901) said on twitter that he "leveled up" about SFV because he stopped blaming the game for his losses and decided to "man up" and learn how to play it. Also, he said one of the things that made him struggle was that he believed people who told him SFV had no footsies.

It isn't to especially defend SFV, it is just that I think Gustavo showed how a 'bad mentality' can stop you from exploring you potential and making you grow.

Many top players and big name (Hi Alioune, Hi Phenom... Btw, damn do EU player whine a lot when I think of it) b*tched about Season 2 but then, some of them began to understand how they could play the game for what it is and began to complain less, said also that it was up to them to accept SFV for the gameplay it give.

Kinda remind me how people began to accept SFIV as time passed.

#69
BlankaBeast said on March 14, 2017 at 10:23 p.m.

Some people like to dislike.

Those people you may best avoid.

#70
CRAYONSEED said on March 14, 2017 at 10:27 p.m.

You HAVE to stream this...

...and make it a money match while you're at it.

#71
Iphantom said on March 14, 2017 at 10:30 p.m.

Among the better articles Eventhubs has ever posted.

#72
edrigo said on March 14, 2017 at 10:33 p.m.

You should repost this every weak lol.

#73
simmmmm said on March 14, 2017 at 10:36 p.m.
(This comment was hidden because it was down voted. You can view it by clicking here.)
#74
halodork said on March 14, 2017 at 10:38 p.m.

Long story short, players are afraid of change and having to learn new skills.

#75
bisonoob said on March 14, 2017 at 10:41 p.m.

i really just want a seperate ranking points for each character like bp vs pp point system in sf4

#76
keebler said on March 14, 2017 at 10:42 p.m.

I agree with Strider, but we need to make a distinction here.

SF5 complaints are not just about the gameplay itself. In fact, at this point i see many more comments about everything outside of the gameplay. The majority of the gameplay complaints i see nowadays are mostly around balancing, and the lag.

At the end of the day, people have already accepted SF5. It will take a very long time for the complaints to simmer down, and frankly i don't think they should because the game has some undeniably peculiar, if not downright silly, design choices. But this is the game we have and it is still fun to play. People always say "oh we have all these other fighters you can play" and that's true. It's just a testament to how much people love the SF franchise.

Where i think Gustavo's comments make more sense is that if you're wanting to truly compete and take your play to the next level, or if you are a pro looking to excel, you need to drop the toxic attitude. It's truly not the attitude of a person who will improve. You basically have to decide if you want to excel at the game, and if you do, you just need to accept it for what it is and master what you are given. Granted, we now have patches, and being that these games have a LOT of money on the line now, it's in the player's best interest to have OP or poor characters addressed. So people should still make opinions known on who needs attention, but don't let it be an excuse either, unless you don't want to excel.

#77
lajn said on March 14, 2017 at 10:44 p.m.

Good reporting. I've seen OG's saying this, now you got the proof.

#78
Kavey said on March 14, 2017 at 10:49 p.m.

Actually I've barely ever seen someone state SFxT was scubby, most of the things that lead to the fall of that game was with peoples views on business practices related to the game, the pay to win concept, and the time over situations being unpleasant to spectators.

By the time some of those things were fixed or died down, the game also died down and all the support Capcom would have given it was referred to the less controversial and established SFIV side of things.

#79
keebler said on March 14, 2017 at 11:15 p.m.

I'd agree, especially with the time out situation that i think a lot of people forget about.

Scrubby is not the term for sfxt. If anything, a lot of players thought the game was almost too hard with the various systems at play, and the abundance of characters while also learning team synergy to make the combo system truly shine. It was definitely more intimidating to pick up compared to sf4 or sf5.

#80
AfterDeath said on March 14, 2017 at 11:18 p.m.

I actually think to become fully good in SFV is much much harder than SFIV.

For example, in SFIV I pretty much remember my frame data as "which move is punishable and which is not."

In SFV I try to remember the frame data of about 30 different normals. Because everything is a potential frame trap. Can it be broken by a 3F jab? Not many things are obviously punishable or not, but more like you have to be patient against +ve strings and know when to break -ve strings.

In SFIV, because the game is fast and responsive, I can whiff punish a move that I see is whiffed.

In SFV, because the game has slow inputs, I need to first expect what my opponent will do, and then plan to use a fast, reactive punish or a slow, hard hitting punish. I need much faster reactions or much further thinking.

In SFIV, because the game is defensive orientated, I can carefully plan mind games based on seeing what resources my opponent have. And mind games in SFIV is obvious because of the heavy emphasis of DP.

In SFV, because the game has such high potential damage, I have to think all my decisions very carefully. And because mind games in SFV is more focused on grabs, block strings and shimmy, it is not as obvious as to what can beat what sometimes.

One may think SFV is just a lot of random, dumb attacking, but I personally feel to consistently out-think, out-plan and outplay someone is much harder than SFIV (I put especial emphasis on CONSISTENTLY, because inconsistently, you can win once or twice against someone better than you).

#81
Stiqman said on March 14, 2017 at 11:19 p.m.

might be nice if we can find a list of who has the highest exp of each character... that would be a start

#82
Gellus said on March 14, 2017 at 11:26 p.m.

The gem bullsh*t system was the biggest problem and was never fixed

#83
Smorgasboard said on March 14, 2017 at 11:49 p.m.

A real scrub would never admit a game is too hard for him. Hence, they denigrate it.

As TLC preached:

A scrub is a guy that thinks he's fly
And is also known as a buster
Always talkin' about what he wants
And just sits on his broke ass
So, no

#84
smashingme said on March 15, 2017 at 12:12 a.m.
(This comment was hidden because it was down voted. You can view it by clicking here.)
#85
RHayabusa said on March 15, 2017 at 12:16 a.m.

Agreed, Sean's G-Ism is OP.

#86
Zombie4u said on March 15, 2017 at 12:24 a.m.

I do play SFV sometimes. I like it well enough, but can't deny that the launch was, ( and really still is ) brutal. At this point I'm hoping for a re-release with all the highly recognizable classic characters, and traditional fighting game modes. You know so that to the "average Joe" it looks and plays like a familiar Street Fighter type game.

#87
RegalBlack said on March 15, 2017 at 12:28 a.m.

I think this article should be permanently pinned to the top of this site, or at least a link on every article.
Maybe it'll cut down some of the detritus in the c-section.

#88
Gellus said on March 15, 2017 at 12:29 a.m.

Nice job removing the important part of the text and trying to give it another meaning

"However, the confusing part of accepting this advice is that jumping can be secretly good in special instances – when set up properly. The real predicament is knowing how and when to jump. And if you don’t, then you’re better off adhering to “Don’t jump.”

This still applies to this day, "oh but i jump all the time and get away with it" if so, you're fighting people that doesn't know how to anti-air, simple as that

About some of your points

Silence towards the community was always a Capcom thing

Many fighting games have uncompetitive stages

No other fighting game has loading times? Really?

If you're good, any trial in any fighting game is going to take 10 seconds, maybe a little bit less or more, but around that time

Doesn’t save training mode options is indeed stupid, why is this not a thing?

#89
Ace777 said on March 15, 2017 at 12:32 a.m.

sfv is deeper than vf5fs

#90
Gellus said on March 15, 2017 at 12:34 a.m.

This ship has sailed dude, people don't even mention this anymore because at this point, it will just annoy people that already bought the game by having they buy another one and is not going to draw any casuals because the damage is done and they probably already pre ordered Injustice 2 or other game that focus what they want

#91
AS_Columbo said on March 15, 2017 at 12:34 a.m.

still... i enjoy watching SF2-4 but 5 is extremely boring in that regard, even though i enjoy playing it from time to time.

#92
smashingme said on March 15, 2017 at 12:40 a.m.

Daigo recently said: whoever jumps is winning.

Also with loading times I meant excruciatingly long loading times.

#93
Havon said on March 15, 2017 at 12:43 a.m.

SFVI Sux!!! SFDix is all about Zoning, SFV wasn't perfect but at least it had some characters that could actually fight instead of just shooting fireballs! Might as well call this game Contra Fighter Six. And to all those people saying Guile had retarded fireballs in SFV, Alex a grappler won EVO and Necalli won CC and he didn't have a fireball just a ground pound that was easily avoidable!

Capcom doesn't do anything right anymore, proof by this game selling only 1.7 million units even though it was release on 2 more consoles than SFV, and $FIV doesn't even offer free characters like SFV did!

Refer to this comment if this type of crying occurs in the future.

#94
MemesterWeedster said on March 15, 2017 at 12:48 a.m.

>implying that GG is for pros.

#95
MyKiLL said on March 15, 2017 at 12:50 a.m.

Coming from the blowhard who tries turning every 3SO online match into a combo video instead of focusing on the fight.

Sit your mashing a$$ down, please.

#96
WhiteHot said on March 15, 2017 at 12:51 a.m.

Of course Ehubs will back SF to their dying breath... Without SF (good or bad) this ship sails. Same with pros

#97
Havon said on March 15, 2017 at 12:55 a.m.

You mean this ship doesn't sail.

#98
MemesterWeedster said on March 15, 2017 at 12:56 a.m.

Except for Smash.

#99
WhiteHot said on March 15, 2017 at 12:59 a.m.

I mean 'sinks'.

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