Do we need another balance patch for Season 2? Vesper weighs the potential good and bad of tweaking Street Fighter 5 one more time this year

Posted by John 'Velociraptor' Guerrero • January 10, 2017 at 6:40 p.m. PST

It is indeed very early yet, and history has shown us that first impressions in fresh fighting games often yield radical opinions that don't stick long term. Still, could Street Fighter 5 use one more shake up before the 2017 Pro Tour launch?

Vesper Arcade investigates this topic in his latest video, comparing Capcom's stated goals for SF5's balance policy and what we've seen thus far in the Season 2 balance patch.

Some top tier characters, (Ryu, R. Mika) were nerfed seemingly into the ground despite Capcom stressing the idea that they'd focus more on bringing the stragglers up instead of slowing the top tiers down.

Decent characters, (Guile and Urien) were seemingly made exponentially better, while lower tier fighters, (F.A.N.G and Alex) appear to have been unjustly nerfed in the community's eyes.

Footage via VesperArcade.

Comments

Darc_Requiem said on January 10, 2017 at 6:47 p.m.

I'll say it again. NO. Haven't we as a community learned that we can't tell who is top tier in short period of time.

#1
Whengameswerefun said on January 10, 2017 at 6:50 p.m.

Nerf normal throws.

#2
dlmaniac said on January 10, 2017 at 6:52 p.m.

Buff Fang a little bit and nerf the insane Guile, Urien and Laura a little bit you'd have a reasonable setup for S2.

Capcom could simply write an internal AI test bot to simulate the effect of all these changes and then make adjustments based on the simulation results. That way they could address the outta-balance issues pretty efficiently w/o the hassle of public tests.

#3
diddykv said on January 10, 2017 at 6:53 p.m.

As a Mika player who's gonna stick with her, I think there should be another balance patch, but not because of my character.

I don't care if Mika stays the same until season 4. But hell, do I think Guile and Urien should be adjusted.

This is not a question of too soon to know who's top tier or not. Guile is ridiculous as he is now. The new lame low risk high reward S1 Chun Li. Has a lot of favorable matches and a couple of characters who can stand a chance. This character deserves a nerf, and I hope it happens before it's too late.

#4
bornonamonday said on January 10, 2017 at 6:56 p.m.

The worst part of all this bitching is if they get get this damn patch they're crying for, is that there will be even more bitching when it makes things worse because no one had the patience to actually let the meta develop. That's not even counting the possibility that the new characters may not be out in march.

#5
Portal23 said on January 10, 2017 at 6:59 p.m.

Wow you guys are turning it into another Mortal Kombat X game.

#6
dlmaniac said on January 10, 2017 at 7 p.m.

Right on about Guile. This character is so cheap as he just sits there throwing fireballs and then kicks whoever jumping in to avoid the fireballs. Rinse, spin, and repeat. It's so friggin' boring to watch such loop of turtling tricks again and again. Either add more recovery to his fireball or increase the charge time on the somersault kick to fix it. Guile is basically broken as he stands right now.

#7
Bushinryu025 said on January 10, 2017 at 7:03 p.m.

fix rashid's ex spinning mixer. that is all

#8
CODYYY said on January 10, 2017 at 7:08 p.m.

haha, people are crazy.

It really gets to a point where people are just hating for the sake of hating. Has the balance patch even been out for a month? and already people are claiming the game is BROKEN!!!! wtf

There has already been so many different tier lists, Japan is even saying Gief is top tier. People are just really wanting their characters buffed -_-

ADAPT to the new balance. Simple :D

#9
CODYYY said on January 10, 2017 at 7:09 p.m.

you wanna see broken just look at the HYPEST GAME EVERVOWENWEN 0EIN I0EVN0QEI QEI0 3RD STRIKE

#10
MesaGordeau said on January 10, 2017 at 7:17 p.m.

Lol

#11
ZenGaijin said on January 10, 2017 at 7:18 p.m.

No, we need to deal with the stuff they put in.

#12
masquedmonk said on January 10, 2017 at 7:20 p.m.

Getting a little tired of this balance patch talk, tbh.

Most of us agreed to a yearly patch, now it's time to suck it up and learn to play. You now have an entire year to figure things out (not that it helped much last time).

#13
TheTHCGamer said on January 10, 2017 at 7:23 p.m.

Everyone was making fun of how frequently NRS patch there fighting games but now they want CAPCOM to do the same thing😂

#14
Darc_Requiem said on January 10, 2017 at 7:26 p.m.

It's been exactly three weeks. Crazy. Someone should pull out the initial tier list for season 1.

#15
Duckangelito said on January 10, 2017 at 7:28 p.m.

I don t understand how ppl manage to cry over Laura ??
Too funny !! She is very good but far from broken.
There are many characters as good or stronger than her ...

#16
pressstart said on January 10, 2017 at 7:28 p.m.

The way I see it, if they do have another balancing patch, then v2 would be like the ptr/beta patch for season 2.

#17
IZUNADR0P said on January 10, 2017 at 7:33 p.m.

I dont see the harm in it. Mess with the game a bit before cpt. It kinda sucks to wait a year for the game to change, change is exciting.

#18
EraserRain said on January 10, 2017 at 7:35 p.m.

Yes!!! They only need to adjust a few things. It's clear that some stuff didn't work out as they expected. I don't think a few adjustments will kill anyone, but I can say this is far from a balance patch by a long shot.

#19
Rawrgna said on January 10, 2017 at 7:39 p.m.

Yeah. Nerf Fang again lol.

#20
thisRalf said on January 10, 2017 at 7:44 p.m.

This is the exact reason why we should NOT do the patch:

Nerf Laura: you're kidding right? She becomes slightly viable instead of free and we need to nerf her?

Nerf Urien: you can make an argument... but I'm feeling he is going to go the route of Nash.

Nerf Guile: he is good... but not that much better than S1.

Peeps need to stop over-reacting and just learn some match-ups. People who are crying nerf are the peeps who refuse to adjust to the changes.

#21
Xykes said on January 10, 2017 at 7:45 p.m.

Alex is better than people are giving him credit for, but whatever.

#22
Doh_Simpson said on January 10, 2017 at 7:45 p.m.

Lmao yea that's what it's become, if NRS does it they do it too much if Capcom does it they "needed to"

#23
Doh_Simpson said on January 10, 2017 at 7:47 p.m.

Laura was never free, Xian was using FANG to get top8s so I think every character was viable.

#24
OkieScrub said on January 10, 2017 at 7:51 p.m.

I wouldn't worry about yearly balance patches if it weren't for the fact they nerfed Nash based on months old EVO meta. Or nerfed Fang in some insane need for normalization.

Urien did not need all those buffs nor did Cammy. Laura is just ridiculous right now.

You know what? forget a balance patch; how about they fix the UI,loadtimes, servers etc.

#25
OkieScrub said on January 10, 2017 at 7:53 p.m.

Learn the match up? the game has been out for a year already. And SF is 30 years old. I think we adults can talk about balance.

I bet you told people to "Learn the match up" when AE Yun was released by the balance geniuses at Capcom.

#26
dark_capp said on January 10, 2017 at 7:57 p.m.

I don't understand this article. Of course SFV will get balanced again. This is the beginning of the season and Capcom will balance little things every time a new character is added.

#27
RisingStar said on January 10, 2017 at 8:07 p.m.

The people who want Urien nerfed don't know jack about the character. He only wins against Zangief, Laura, and mika while losing to at least Guile, FANG, Cammy, and Ken. I'm sorry but that's not a character that needs nerfs.

#28
diddykv said on January 10, 2017 at 8:14 p.m.

Yes. While "learning the match up" is something we should do, I don't get why people think saying that solves all the problems with new releases / balance patches.

It doesn't always take a year to see something that should be fixed.

But whatever. Learn the matchup; Capcom is the new NRS, etc.

#29
GodLezz said on January 10, 2017 at 8:22 p.m.

As a platinum Urien main, that's pretty much it. Urien loses to everybody who has better buttons than him.
To me it goes on like this:
Favorable match ups > Zangief, Birdie, Mika, Juri
Unfavorable match ups > Guile, Karin, Cammy, Chun li (All those buttons)

Even.... the rest of the cast.

Urien is pretty much where Karin was back on the first month of the game. Straightforward mixups that are getting figured out. Nobody above gold takes Urien mixups, unless I really mindf**k them.

Sorry bout the bad english.

#30
bornonamonday said on January 10, 2017 at 8:27 p.m.


No, but it takes longer than three weeks.

#31
DJ_wHonda_ft_DJ_Slaps_MTL said on January 10, 2017 at 8:33 p.m.

recovery are realy slow for Bison after mp inferno or crossup somethin' like that in v-trigger

#32
ImaPlayThis said on January 10, 2017 at 8:34 p.m.

I've said it before but I always wanted one balance patch a year, however with possibility of two (after EVO and after CC finals) should the need arise. So I don't think they should do another patch right now, I think people need more time for the dust to settle

#33
b4ym4n said on January 10, 2017 at 8:37 p.m.

Omg. Eventhubs. There isn't going to be another patch for a while. Stop milking the topic and provoking the ire of scrubs who are bad at this game.

#34
SpadeHand said on January 10, 2017 at 8:38 p.m.

What, you want another Mortal Kombat?

#35
darkblade13 said on January 10, 2017 at 8:50 p.m.

How about you guys focus on Tekken 7 instead of CPT when March rolls around?

#36
GiMiX said on January 10, 2017 at 9:19 p.m.

I'm hype for that game as well. I'm really hoping it's a hit in the West somehow. They don't seem to have much coverage or advertising though.

#37
TheMasterPlayer said on January 10, 2017 at 9:50 p.m.

Are you kidding me?! No! Just no!

You guys are calling for another patch when a major one just dropped?! I mean how knee her reaction can you get.

Let's see the long-term results of this patch first before calling for another one.

Are you guys babies? Or are you men?! Holy moly!

#38
Destro_91 said on January 10, 2017 at 9:51 p.m.

They should have left Guile as is. S1 Guile was pretty good. F.A.N.G. is a poorly developed character, if he was omitted in a patch I wouldn't miss him.

#39
TheMasterPlayer said on January 10, 2017 at 9:53 p.m.

Are you kidding me?! No! Just no!

You guys are calling for another patch when a major one just dropped?! I mean how knee jerk reaction can you get?

Let's see the long-term results of this patch first before calling for another one.

Are you guys babies? Or are you men?! Stop crying and just play the damn game. Holy moly!

#40
TheTHCGamer said on January 10, 2017 at 9:54 p.m.

The same thing will happen if everyone focuses on tekken 7 when it releases. Players will point out which characters are too strong or weak then demand balance patches.

I'm looking forward to tekken 7 but I really hope these players asking for balance changes in less then a month don't jump on board.

#41
AAKZ said on January 10, 2017 at 10:20 p.m.

Once a year is fine. People need to stop bitching. You will never be happy with the changes. Adapt scrubs.

#42
pip said on January 10, 2017 at 10:31 p.m.

They will fix bugs and unforeseen side effects of some adjustments that make some situations ridiculous and that will be it.

#43
TheMasterPlayer said on January 10, 2017 at 10:34 p.m.

You know what needs some patching up? Crybabies' mouths who b*tch and moan about EVERYTHING!

#44
daisetsu said on January 10, 2017 at 10:35 p.m.

but bison was op

#45
Q80Warlock said on January 10, 2017 at 10:53 p.m.

No one will be satisfied with the end results every balance patch will have ups and downs some characters will be nerfed/buffed no matter what. Perfect balance is something very hard to implement in a fighting game.

#46
Bokator said on January 10, 2017 at 11:15 p.m.

Everyone says Guile is OP yet I saw two tourneys this month with no one jumping on the Guile bandwagon but saw a lot of Akumas, Urien, Laura, Cammy and a bit of Juri and Balrog. Guile maybe strong against Shotos but it seems all the female casts has his number. As a standalone character I doubt Guile will win any tourneys. He's gotten stronger in season 2 but I think it's warranted buffs that made him more competitive with his season 1 bad matchups. On the flip side, he's gotten stronger against his favorable matchups, thus, I think that's where the complaints are coming from.

#47
CityHunter said on January 10, 2017 at 11:25 p.m.

What do you want them talk about? There wasent any recent announcement and there still is no release date

Im not a big fan of eventhubs but if there is no news about tekken7 well you cant really talk about it

#48
Toomnyusernae said on January 10, 2017 at 11:31 p.m.

Buff Sean in Third Strike Capcom. It's as if you made him crappy on purpose like you don't believe all charactersshould be balanced and viable or something. What's up with that? Kappa.

Big N.O. from me. Don't care whose at the top of the cake, there's gonna be one sooner or later. Deal with it.

#49
Maziy said on January 11, 2017 at 12:06 a.m.

No, I don't want balance changes, it's really difficult to play vs urien right now but I can learn match up.

But we need patch to get rid of aa jabs and other sh1t. I mean it is ridiculous that after patch Necali still aa with 3f jab. They buffed juri and that's great but how about fixing her jab, the same goes for Rashida knee, Chun li light kick, zangief jab and etc.

Other thing that should be addressed is forward dashes. They are too good for 6 frame delay, there is literally no need for footsies when you can dash or jump in all day. Nerf dashes and jumping in wouldn't be so easy, which mean better neutral game.

#50
TestosteronInc said on January 11, 2017 at 12:07 a.m.

They really should.
This game is starting to get into critical phase.

Many people were keeping hope that season 2 would fix most problems both with gameplay and the game in general, however they were sorely disappointed.
Pretty much the entire Dutch fgc and a very big percentage of the German fgc has dropped the game definitively in the last 3 weeks because of this.

It is no longer the case that people should be told to wait it out and see what the game will bring. first: everyone waited a year to see what the game will bring, second: the moment to do something about it is NOW before the CPT kicks off.

I will list some things that really need to be fixed (in my oppinion and in the opinion of some Dutch players with whom I discussed this issue with) in order to save this game:

gameplay wise:
- Fluidity of the game. SFV feels extremely heavy, it's like you're controling a Terminator. Ever since SF4 the games felt too slow and too heavy but SFV feels even more that than SF4 and SFxT. Third Strike was the epitome of fluidity and speed in a game, it was perfection. But instead of moving closer to that they are moving further away from it.

- Combo options. give characters more combo options and preferably some more difficult rewarding combo's. Season 1 is done and it is time that the skill ceiling should be brought higher than it was. Also more importantly; players should be able to express themselves MORE through the different options presented by them. More options is a good thing, not a bad thing. Make this game deeper please.

- display lag. reduce it to at least 4 frames but preferably lower than that. this would fix a lot of stuff and it would also greatly improve the footsie game we all love to see.

- Anti air light attacks. Take...them....out. change the hurt and hitboxes so that they will at least get beaten by crossups and at least trade with a good jump in. jab aa's are way too strong in SFV for many reasons. 1 They still beat most jump ins and cross ups. 2 they lead into a free 50/50, 3 they take the least amount of mental capital since they are both the fastest moves in the game and take only 1 button press. 4 this game was supposed to be big mental captital-> big rewards -> small mental capital -> small reward. Also they are hideous to look at from a spectater point of view, especially for casual viewers. It makes the game even less apealing to casuals than it already is.

to be continued

#51
TestosteronInc said on January 11, 2017 at 12:08 a.m.

Part 2/3
gameplaywise continued;

- Crush Counter buttons. Make them more whiff punishable, and/or more punishable on block. A lot of this games meta for many characters is just 'spamming' (I hate this word but I cant find a better one now) and whiffing their best CC button and if it hits confirm into really big dmg. Again...hardly that risk reward this game was supposed to be. At the highest level of play this is less of a problem (thank god) but it still is there. Also the sub-top and medium level play should definetively be considered in a game in my opinion.

- Invincible reversals. put them back. Again: don't make the game more simple and egalitarian. Give players MORE options, not less. Players should be able to make the decision to play a character that has an invincible reversal but lacks in other departments or doesn't have one but is better in other areas.

- more Critical Arts, V-triggers, V-skills. IMO this could be something to implement later in the game but many others keep requesting this. And it DOES bring more variety and depth to the game.

-----------------
now for the game in general.

- Loading times. This is the biggest gripe that people seem to have with SFV outside of the gameplay itself. Loading times take extremely long and they are everywhere. Going into training mode? loading. Getting matched by request? loading. accepting match and connecting with opponent? loading. won/lost the match? loading. Get your fight money? loading. want rematch? loading. Go back to previous mode? loading.
Finding a way to reduce this would take away a lot of annoyance.

- Match making. it takes a long time to find matches. This probably has to do with the fact that so many people dropped the game already but the problem is there and deserves to be pointed out.

- Battle lounge. I never look for random battle lounges because I can't see what region/country the player is from before I enter so I cannot determine if it will be laggy for sure or if I might find a good connection there. it is very unreliable to get a good connection.

- CFN. This has to be the biggest joke of the game. CFN was supposed to connect people but it may well be the worst social platform I have ever seen in a game. I can't send friend request or messages to my opponents or even my friends. I can't chat in a lobby, only use awkward pre-made lines in battle lounge but they're pretty stupid and should be secondary. I can't create a chat lobby in general. I can't create an ingame community with my own friends or forummembers where we could log in everytime we're on SFV or even any time we are just online with our PS4 playing other games. I can't help newbies by giving them advice and I can't ask pro's for their advice.

SFV has gotten very formal and impersonal because of CFN. it is horrible and it needs a complete overhaul.

to be continued

#52
TestosteronInc said on January 11, 2017 at 12:10 a.m.

part 3/3

- Godaweful random AI in Survival mode. You grind out hard mode for an hour long and suddenly the character that killed you last time is easy as hell now, but this time you get destroyed by psychic DP's from Necalli who was a pushover the last time you got this far. give us a way to find a system in the AI's thinking so we can beat it. At least in survival mode I mean. You waste hours into it so you need to be able to find out a way to get past it.

- servers and onesided lag. onesided lag is truly disgusting. I don't think it needs explanation.

- Arcade mode/more modes in general. I personally don't need arcade mode but this seems to a be a constantly requested thing by other players. However more modes would always be a good thing. Look at Mortal Kombat and Tekken and see how they did it. So many fun things to do. The catacombs in MK are extremely simple and could have been done way better but they are still a lot of fun! Or how about a tournament mode?

- player 2 control. How long has the game been out? why can't player 2 control a rematch already?

I most likely missed a couple of things but even typing all of this it makes me realise that this game would hardly be presentable as release version right now... so why they felt they had to release SFV at such a horribly fast pace in 2016 still boggles my mind. But that is in the past now, you f-cked up the release but at least do your stinking best to make this game the best it can be right now.

#53
Partinaire said on January 11, 2017 at 12:34 a.m.
(This comment was hidden because it was down voted. You can view it by clicking here.)
#54
logitech2059 said on January 11, 2017 at 12:54 a.m.

I want capcom to explain why AA jabs still work, why the neutral game is still rubbish.
And why season 2 has become a reset fest.

#55
Santaclaus said on January 11, 2017 at 12:54 a.m.

Lmao worst comment of the year goes to partinaire.

First off it isn't an argument. Second: people put 60 bucks in this game some even 120 euro's, I think they're entitled to expect a fleshed out and fully functioning game. Third capcom got millions from sony for devellopment of this game. Fourt go and stand in a corner for being the most retarded in the room

#56
Santaclaus said on January 11, 2017 at 12:55 a.m.

I agree! Though i dont want them to answer, i just want them to fix it.

#57
xShonuffx said on January 11, 2017 at 1:28 a.m.

Oh stop. Its 2017, almost every game including esports games have in the middle balance patches during championship leagues.

Why should you be forced to play characters (especially ones you buy) that are super weak or not fun to play?

And this argument you pose is so flawed. Developers re balance characters and wait a whole year to see if what they did worked out ok or not? With no external testing, no feed back from pros or casuals? Weak.

This isn't 1998 anymore guys, we have internet, if the game needs balance changes frequently then it needs to be done frequently and in small tweeks, tested and retested then released.

#58
pinoy929 said on January 11, 2017 at 2:10 a.m.

Agreed. Yearly updates, especially after all the major tournaments are done is acceptable. Keeps the year consistent and then restarts the tiers/strats for the next season, making the competition fresh and entertaining.

#59
Maziy said on January 11, 2017 at 2:42 a.m.

At the start of last year bison was top tier and mika bottom. Judging by your logic, after 2-3 moths of whining capcom should have buffed mika.
And you are not forced to play boring or weak character, just take strong one ;-)

#60
flash_makoto said on January 11, 2017 at 2:43 a.m.

blame combofiend. thats his job to check if the changes would be appropriate. but look more broken character.
-nerf the weak character
-buff the strong character
-make unnecessary changes
thats his job to mess up everything.

#61
Snow2Drop said on January 11, 2017 at 2:52 a.m.

Want me to link you some Nemo or RB's video to see if anybody above gold takes Urien mixup?

Rest of the cast even? Don't even get me started, I can name you so many more character Urien is favorable over.

And since you are mentioning rank, I got to Diamond with Vega and I still takes Urien mixup, heck, that's not even what is so strong about Urien. He just needs the one cr.mk (which we all know the length) to hit or that one ex tackle and there goes at least 25% health + incoming mixup.

#62
Zephyrus said on January 11, 2017 at 3:07 a.m.

*standing ovation*

#63
Zephyrus said on January 11, 2017 at 3:19 a.m.

because a fighting game is not the same as a moba or a fps.

Characters tools in fighting games are infinitely more complex than the ones found on pretty much every other competitive genre out there.

People have been crying since the first week.
My main got the harshest nerfs and you don't hear me crying about a new balance patch.

This whole "buff my character and nerf everyone else" schtick is irritating.

What if capcom had decided to go the NRS route and buff Mika when everyone else was saying she was trash during the first weeks? Or nerf bison and dhalsim for the opposite reasons?

This reminds me of MKX Kung Jin who everyone cried about, got nerfed early on and basically became unviable for quite a while. Especially when people figured out his weaknesses and that he wasn't that strong after all.

Not to mention how bad this will hurt the competitive scene. There's a reason why NRS games start with a strong competitive scene and in a few months it becomes a shell of what it was.

Having to relearn characters and character matchups every month is not fun and doesn't let the characters develop.

But whatever. This site just praises the whiners and complainers. Especially if they have a blue username. Notice me senpai.

#64
Snow2Drop said on January 11, 2017 at 3:34 a.m.

We don't hear you crying about a new balance patch cause all we here is you crying about Nash. Like right about in this comment that I am replying to. The hypocrisy.

#65
GensDisciple said on January 11, 2017 at 3:43 a.m.

My NRS game experience...

Day 1 - omg this game is awesome. I'm gonna main the character, look at this combo potential!!!

Day -30 wake up, what happened to my character, he can't do that anymore? Why did they take that out?! Guess I'll main this guy.

Day 60 - they nerfed my alt character!!!! Whyyyyyyy!

Day 90 - Don't have time to learn another character for this dial a combo game.... I'm done. Besides tournaments are dying out as well.

Yea bout 3 months cycle for a NRS game, I just enjoy the ride while it lasts.

#66
TestosteronInc said on January 11, 2017 at 3:46 a.m.

even though I slightly agree with his list on more difficult match ups because of the buttons (I would add Laura to the list since it's really hard to get her off of you) and I would add quite a lot of characters to the more favorable match ups like the shoto's, I'll another strong point about Urien.

He has both a super and an Ultra. His V-trigger is basicly an ultra where it builds up for taking punishment and it it a super in it's own right in damage potential.

that is on top his great buttons like his st.mp (love that button plz don't take it away capcom ^_^ )

#67
Zephyrus said on January 11, 2017 at 3:54 a.m.

Learn what hypocrisy mean. I cried about him getting nerfed but you never heard me say "buff muh character. Uh need muh patch".

You know what I did? I went to learn new stuff for him. New frame traps, new meaties and new combos.

I still don't like that he was badly nerfed, but you sure as f*ck haven't seen me say even once that we should get a new patch ASAP to revert some changes.

Why does every mouth breather on this site have an issue with me?

Why can't someone with more than 1 functioning brain cell ever reply to my posts?

*sigh*

#68
Snow2Drop said on January 11, 2017 at 3:59 a.m.

Maybe you should learn what hypocrisy means instead.

"Hurr durr, look at all this people complaining about buff and nerf."

This is basically you, yet you complain about Nash everyday and still have the gall to complain about other people complaining and act like you are above them, so if this is not hypocrisy what is?

#69
handsofgod said on January 11, 2017 at 3:59 a.m.

I'm no expert but at the moment I feel guile urien and Laura could do with a slight tweak

#70
Snow2Drop said on January 11, 2017 at 4:06 a.m.

My list for Urien would be

Even - Karin, Chun Li, Akuma, Rashid and maybe Necalli

Unfavorable - Guile, Balrog, Laura, Cammy

and the rest is favourable

#71
dantemundus said on January 11, 2017 at 4:25 a.m.

For the record, I agree with almost everything that you say. In any topic regarding SFV on this site, when I want to get an informed opinion and I see your name in the comments section, I'm reading what you've written in full.

Don't let the haters get you down. I appreciate what you've contributed to the site, you've made me better at the game and I thank you for that. I know I'm not alone in that.

#72
Santaclaus said on January 11, 2017 at 4:33 a.m.

I agree

#73
rulezfin said on January 11, 2017 at 4:33 a.m.

They really don't know how to play against her. laura can be completely shut down by well times pressure followed by defensive play. Her neutral is not good it is not even funny.

I think a lot of the cries about Laura come from the nerfing of invincible moves such as dragon punch. People need to learn to adapt at point blank pressure. For me it was the toughest thing in this season so far.

#74
masquedmonk said on January 11, 2017 at 4:57 a.m.

The fact that Urien now lords over everyone after being tweaked a mere three months into his existence alone should warn people about short term balancing.

All you do is run the risk of another character taking his place, and then the people who are now in love with Urien get disillusioned, and then decide to not play as him anymore.

Capcom should have kept changes minute, the way it was implied. Buff up the lowest tiers and tweak, slightly, the strongest ones. Maybe Ryu could have put up with a damage nerf or even a DP nerf but making his normals slower and stubbier is overkill. But the point is, this is how Ryu is to be now, and as a mainer I will need to live with those changes until Capcom deems it necessary. Or find someone else that fits me better.

Notice that I leave the door open for a mid year changelog. But I'm not clamoring for one.

#75
TestosteronInc said on January 11, 2017 at 5:05 a.m.

no there are so many more even matches. and Akuma is unfavorable.

#76
bornonamonday said on January 11, 2017 at 5:45 a.m.


They're aware of the warning, but many don't care or want the same to happen to their character while hoping the rest get nerfed. And when it doesn't work they'll whine until it happens.

The other problem is that people think patches are as simple as flicking on a switch and not aware of how much work goes into them.

#77
blueimpulse said on January 11, 2017 at 5:51 a.m.

I hope not. Every time Capcom patch something , Ryu gets some aleatory nerfs :)

#78
KingKazma said on January 11, 2017 at 6:39 a.m.

VALLE.....we need you back here..AGAIN

#79
mcfizzle said on January 11, 2017 at 6:43 a.m.

S1 - Mika is OP, Nash is OP, Chun is OP, Necalli is OP
S2 - Guile is OP, Urien is OP, Laura is OP, Balrog is OP

You think your next balance patch isn't just going to cycle in another 4 characters to cry about? There are too many opinions for betas to work, too many bad ideas to sift through for good feedback, too much risk to the tournaments and learning of characters to make balance changes too frequently.

You survived a year with Mika and Chun. You'll make it through Laura and Urien.

#80
LordOfChaos43 said on January 11, 2017 at 6:51 a.m.

The only thing i want to see changes is Guile's v-trigger back to 3 bars. everything else is ok.

#81
Albert_o6 said on January 11, 2017 at 6:59 a.m.

It's because of stupid comments like this capcom decided to weaken zoning in sf5. Let me give you an advice, shut up and stop bitching

#82
Darc_Requiem said on January 11, 2017 at 7:14 a.m.

You are assuming people know which characters are strong and weak. They don't. It's been 3 weeks. There are things that seem OP right now that'll get figured. There are things that seem fine that will end up OP.

We went through this last year. People were making fun of Combofiend for saying how strong of a character Mika is. Those same people were crying about how OP Mika was and making Mika derp icons for Twitch half way through the CPT season.

#83
HyperViperNZ said on January 11, 2017 at 7:31 a.m.

Poor Laura. Once a character shows that they actually have more potential than initially thought, the people start crying about how broken or overpowered they are. She's fine.

#84
SapphireGospel_17 said on January 11, 2017 at 7:48 a.m.

After watching cooperation cup for 3rd strike I really want online edition to be on the PS4 it was sooo epic all the fights in that tournament. And maybe this is just me ( I'm sure it is ) but capcom can we just have a sequel/remake of 3rd strike maybe call it final strike and add new characters and stages a new cinematic story and make the graphics look like or close to guilty gear xrd.....eh eh?

#85
Enochrewt said on January 11, 2017 at 7:52 a.m.

Zephyrus said:

"Why can't someone with more than 1 functioning brain cell ever reply to my posts?

*sigh*"

Because you willingly get down on their level. You just have to face the facts that this is not the place you'll be able to intelligently discuss the mechanics of fighting games. The comments of EVERY article prove that repeatedly.

#86
McAl said on January 11, 2017 at 8:21 a.m.

The only change that makes Laura "better" is no meterless invincible DPs. The other "buffs" she got were subtle and necessary. If anything she has been normalized.

#87
SofYen said on January 11, 2017 at 8:50 a.m.

Why should Cammy be so low on life and stun whereas Laura, Urien, Karin, Guile are better and have more life and stun?
Or at least they should revert the huge nerfs of her main tools : Dp and Cannon Strike.
Nobody talks about M.Bison but he is quite Broken as well...Endless pressure and so safe...

#88
EightFrameGod said on January 11, 2017 at 9 a.m.

Somebody plays Guile.

#89
Positive_Edge said on January 11, 2017 at 9:04 a.m.

Making bad matchups even more bad is NEVER a good idea. (ie: 6/4's => 7/3's)

Completely throws Capcom's initial statement regarding character balancing right out the window.

"Don't greatly nerf characters. Buff the weaker ones instead"

#90
FengShuiMachine said on January 11, 2017 at 9:28 a.m.

I think the one thing that dont make sence to me about urien is giving him a 1025hp.

#91
FengShuiMachine said on January 11, 2017 at 9:32 a.m.

I feel that against M.Bison you have to know all the fake setups that can be interupted by 3framers or invincible reversal or else he wont stop with his f.hp. and control the space infront of you to stop his dash foward in s.hk or grab etc.

#92
CRAYONSEED said on January 11, 2017 at 9:44 a.m.

I wish they would actually give a mini-guide as to how they think characters should work post-patch. Have someone like Combo do it because he's involved with development.

I main Ryu and it seems like the gameplan should be the same as it was before in S1, but the nerf to throws and his damage output and some normals mean that the same gameplan is just a lot less effective now...

#93
FengShuiMachine said on January 11, 2017 at 9:45 a.m.

I dont think that the game needs a rebalanve before the season starts. Because 100% of chances is that ppl still will complain about it.

Open beta is a bad idea. Looking at the community react on day 1 is proof of it. I dont beleive the the whole FGC is capable of givinng rational advices on balancing a game. To much ppl dont really put in the work to really find things out, and too many bias opinions. If an open beta would be a thing to test balance patch , capcom should select only talents such as Desk and other character specialist who are really good at figuring charaters out to give in reporst.

Capcom did not rebalance S1 before the CPT , same should be for this season.

#94
CRAYONSEED said on January 11, 2017 at 9:47 a.m.

The confusing thing about the Ryu nerfs is that we had the best shoto players in the world playing him and not winning majors. I can also tell you from experience that if you were playing at a regular lever (I'd rate myself intermediate), that Ryu was not rolling over the competition because of his inherent strengths. I just don't get it.

I'd be pretty happy if they rolled his changes back, but I hope I or someone else discovers some tech that makes him better than he currently is...

#95
DK_ALEX_DK said on January 11, 2017 at 10:07 a.m.

Lord Urien don't need nerfs. We mustn't let the Lord fall in power because of false statements!
ALL HAIL LORD URIEN!!!!

P.S. I have no real problems fighting Guile, Karin and Chun with Lord Urien, but Cammy...I'd love to just destroy that bee!

#96
DK_ALEX_DK said on January 11, 2017 at 10:08 a.m.

Ryu is boring! Thats why he needed nerfs.

#97
TwoCoins said on January 11, 2017 at 10:23 a.m.

I still think they should adjust some characters AA jabs.

Make buttons faster, with a bigger hurt and hitbox so footsies can come back! shave off some of that damn input lag.

Lets have a street fighter game again. Not Setplay Fighter V: Mash Heavy and Corner carry edition.

#98
TwoCoins said on January 11, 2017 at 10:35 a.m.

Urien is great and a good spot now imo but is over-rated and terms of what people are saying about him tho. People complain that he's too good. Just go at him when he loses charge, his fireballs are slow recovery, know what is punishable, alot of his +0 loses to 3framers and doesnt give him pressure afterwards just block no real mixup after other than throw. His kneedive is punishable. His headbutt is crouch punishable. His EX Headbutt can be safe jump, safe block with anything faster than 7 frames? Thats like 3frame jabs x2 or a meaty 4 framer (x2). or can low profiled to crush counter all on block. know when not to press buttons, has a floaty jump and terrible crossup (easy to block), a punishable and react able overhead. People say his low forward is too good but cant be canceled to anything outside v-trigger. And He's only scary with v-trigger which alot of the cast has scary v-triggers too. If you know how to block and don't mind v-reversal then it's easily avoided and all you need to get worried is being hit confirmed by it. His buttons are good but not the best, which he loses to vs other characters better buttons. It becomes a mash for counter fest until v-trigger which is a Street Fighter V problem and not a Urien problem bc they are afraid to get hit.

#99
jabbatwerkz said on January 11, 2017 at 11:05 a.m.

HOW ABOUT THOSE COCKSUCKERS RELEASE A FUKKING *****FINISHED GAMMEEEEE****
THEY DON'T GIVE A FUKK ABOUT "THE COMMUNITY"
I SPIT IT REAL, COME AT ME BRUH
MONEY MONEY MONEY
FUKK THEM, I'M DONE.

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