Xiao Hai: This was how I defeated Daigo's 'Sheng Long' to stand a chance - in-depth tips for the Cammy vs. Ryu match-up

Posted by Cheng Kai 'KarbyP' Sim • May 1, 2014 at 4:04 p.m. PDT

Ultra Street Fighter 4 is currently out in arcades in Japan, but not in China -- and that's a good thing for all of us.

Because since Chinese pro Cammy player Xiao Hai could not get his hands on the game, he decided to spend a bit of his time to write a long and detailed forum post going over all of the pre-match preparatory work he did before going up against MCZ Daigo Umehara at the Topanga World League. Where he managed to beat Daigo rather convincingly, at 7-to-4.

EventHubs reader Ahgama, who first saw Xiao Hai's post on the 17utt.com forums, got his friend to translate the entire piece. He then cleaned it up and sent it to us.

As EventHubs's own KarbyP happens to be Singaporean Chinese, we've also taken a look at the original Chinese text, include anything that Ahgama's friend left out, and edited the entire piece to try and have it read as smoothly as possible.

Hit the jump to read this great piece, which takes a very comprehensive look at the Cammy vs. Ryu match-up, at high-level play.

Xiao Hai even has a neat little trick for beating Daigo's MP 'Sheng Long' -- that's literally Chinese for 'Shoryu' -- to get into point-blank range with Cammy, allowing her to initiate 'Horror Mode'.

That's how Xiao Hai stood a chance.

Match Revision: Xiao Hai vs. Daigo

Since for the moment we can't practice in Ultra Street Fighter 4, and since even in USF4 the Ryu vs. Cammy match-up more or less remains unchanged, in this post I'll share a little about the sort of prep work I do before a match.

By the third night of the competition, I was completely exhausted. After the match with Bonchan, I looked like I was about to collapse. Got back to the hotel at about 1AM, and at that point all I could think about were fight tactics for the matches I would be playing against Xian and Daigo the following day. To the point that I could not sleep at all.

After failing to fall asleep, I got up at about 3AM, turned on the Xbox, and started practicing.

As my first match for the following day would be against Xian, I practiced all of my tactics for the Gen vs. Cammy match-up first. Then I went back to sleep at about 6AM, woke up again at 10AM, felt tired and went to sleep at 1PM, and woke up at 2PM.

By the time I got to the tournament grounds at 4PM, I was so tired that I was yawning the whole way through. So tired that my eyes teared up quite a bit (everyone who saw me at the venue laughed at how tired I had looked), until it was finally time for my matches. Honestly, it was a really tough experience.

Alright, that's enough digressing. On to the main topic at hand: [How did I prepare for my match against Daigo]

First we need to look at the various ways in which Ryu can hurt Cammy, and how Cammy can hurt Ryu.

Usually the matchup is Cammy-Ryu 6-4, but at the top level it's 5-5. Why do I say that? Let's start with a comparison of footsies: Ryu has a slight advantage in terms of attack range with 2mk 2hk. Cammy can counter-poke with 2mk and 5hk (far standing HK).

Further away Cammy has a small technique which is 2mk buffered into Spiral Arrow. If Ryu tries to poke with 2mk he will get hit (with Cammy's 2mk into Spiral Arrow). At this range, Ryu cannot use 2hk to whiff punish, but at top-level play Daigo would not poke at that range anyway.

(After that, further out,) There's a certain range where only Ryu can 2mk Cammy and Cammy can never poke back, as if she pokes back she gets whiff punished.

Even further out, as long as Cammy does not have any EX bars, Ryu can Hadouken. At that range, even if Cammy Focus Absorbs the Hadouken and dash forward (sa66 or "saving Attack, forward dash"), Ryu will still be at frame advantage. Additionally, Hadouken is a move that can do chip damage.

Once Ryu gets the health lead, as long as he does not throw out Hadoukens (which can be punished by EX Spiral Arrow or Ultra)... since Cammy cannot beat Ryu in footsies, Cammy will definitely lose. That is the one absolute advantage Ryu has over Cammy.

So at this point, you might think, "but wait, aren't we forgetting about Cannon Strike?"

True, Cannon Strike is the one move that breaks up this impasse. You could use it to counter Ryu's 2mk.

At high-level play, the main point of this move isn't to hit Ryu. It is more to make Ryu hesitate. Let's analyze it: if a Ryu player wants to counter Cammy's Cannon Strike, then it is very, very easy. All he has to do is to hold back on the stick, and as soon as Ryu sees Cammy jump, DP. If Ryu wants to go for a 2mk poke, just watch Cammy, and visually confirm that Cammy is still on ground before you press the button for real. All pro-level Ryu players can do this.

So how does this change things? The breakthrough comes from the 0.X seconds of psychological warfare that comes into play, when Cammy walks forward. Because it's no longer max Ryu 2mk range once Cammy walks forward, he has to worry about random Cannon Strikes.

Ryu needs 0.X seconds to confirm whether Cammy has jumped or not, so he'll hold back while Cammy is holding forward. And because Cammy's walk-forward speed is faster than Ryu's walk-back, after 0.x seconds here's what the situation turns into: a range where both characters’ 2mk can hit each other.

At this range, being able to hit-confirm from 2mk into Spiral Arrow (don't throw out Spiral Arrow if 2mk is blocked) is the crucial factor. At high-level player, you need this advantage.

(On another note,) Usually 5hk pokes aren't there to hurt Ryu. It's more there for distraction and gauge building. Also throwing 5hk out encourages your opponent to go for a Focus Attack, in which case Cammy can perform, on reaction, 2mk xx Spiral Arrow.

Next, what can Cammy do if meterless? I found that there's a distance where Cammy's 2lk (crouching LK) will not hit Ryu normally, but if Ryu 2mk or throws out a Hadouken then it will hit, which can then be confirmed into Spiral Arrow. Therefore, just walk up and block because Ryu's 2mk does no chip and if canceled into Hadouken then I can Focus Absorb it. Even if he goes straight for the Hadouken (not from crouching MK) it's just a tiny bit of chip. I just need that one chance to knock Ryu down.

For most people, when they see Cammy has meter and leaves for the air, they will always Shoryu. Chances are, 95% it will hit. The remaining 5% only happens when Cammy is too close and Cammy does not do a low EX Cannon Strike as she's jumping, which makes Ryu's immediate MP Shoryu whiff.

Even if Ryu recovers from the whiffed MP Shoryuken without getting punished, he will be scared of a delayed EX Cannon Strike which can evade a 2nd Shoryuken attempt. Therefore Ryu's safest choice here is to block. But if Ryu blocks, Cammy will be at point-blank range and horror mode begins.

How about LP Shoryu then? There's a chance of it getting beaten outright by a low EX Cannon Strike and connecting into combo. And that's the mind game being played here. Without it, Cammy can never get in.

Moving on... Almost every Ryu now knows about 2hp OS throw tech (crouch tech with LP+LK+HP), so a lot of Cammy players do not use low EX Cannon Strikes (as it would get hit by Ryu's crouching HP). How should you deal with this? It's very simple really. Ryu's 2hp is 4f. Cammy's 2lk is 3f. All I have to do is (pretend that I'm going to throw or go for an EX Cannon Strike, but instead) do a delayed 2lk button press. (This beats the 2HP OS throw tech.) If, in response, Ryu goes for a Focus Attack, then all you have to do is go for a 2lk 6lp blockstring. If he performs a focus-backdash, after 2lk Cammy can walk forward 5lp 2mk xx Spiral Arrow.

Some people have noticed that Daigo would sometimes leave Ryu standing still without blocking or doing anything, and think that he's doing that to taunt. That's not the whole story, really. Two reasons: 1) This is a psychological tactic, but we all knew that already. 2) Standing still hurtbox is smaller than moving or crouching.

This is Daigo combining psychological warfare and the game system perfectly. But since he also did this last year, I came up with a tactic to counter it, and that is by throwing out a random Spiral Arrow.

It's a complete gamble, but I have a methodology that gives me a very high success rate on this gamble.

I'll try to describe what Daigo is thinking when he does this: When two players are at neutral, to break the stalemate, he will stand still to start the psychological war.

When he decides to stand still he has already decided how long he will stand (0.8s-1.8s) and not hold back to block at all.

If this is a trap for me, he will tap down on the lever to crouch around the 0.5s mark, or pull back to block around the 1.0s.

So for the first couple of times when he attempts this, I'll try to download his habits.

After a few times, when he realises that I consistently did not fall for the trap, he will think that perhaps I have already figured it out and stop the trap setting (by holding back to block after 0.5/1.0s) when leaving Ryu defenseless, to change up the strategy.

At this moment when he decides to change things up, is when his defensive awareness decreases. That's when I immediately Spiral Arrow and hit him with it. You can watch the videos again and it's not hard to find out.

And that's my review of the Cammy-Ryu match-up. Recently I haven't been home a lot, and have been writing these on my mobile phone, so I couldn't include any pictures to illustrate. I thought I'd just share my thought process anyway.

Source: 17utt.com forums. Our thanks to Ahgama for submitting this in!

Translated by Ahgama's friend (who wishes to remain anonymous), and cleaned up by Ahgama and EventHubs's own KarbyP.

Comments

evo546 said on May 1, 2014 at 4:11 p.m.

good stuff Xiao Hai.

#1
mmbbx said on May 1, 2014 at 4:13 p.m.

I love this analysis. Really in-depth and breaking everything down piece-by-piece. I really like the basic and meta strats covered too!

#2
JimmyLoves said on May 1, 2014 at 4:15 p.m.
(This comment was hidden because it was down voted. You can view it by clicking here.)
#3
brandaman69 said on May 1, 2014 at 4:17 p.m.

Why do you need tips for that match-up? In AE it is one of Ryu's worst match-ups. Cammy can counter every tool he has and vortex him to death. I wonder what is next a tutorial that for Guile showing how to beat Bison or a Blanka tutorial for that T.Hawk match-up.

#4
karlak said on May 1, 2014 at 4:18 p.m.

Xiao Hai is definitely a thinker as Daigo! It is always hard for players to practice in China since they have little FGC environment and support! Wonder how Xiao is going to achieve if living in Japan, or even in the States.

#5
zUkUu said on May 1, 2014 at 4:18 p.m.

I get loud auto-play commercial videos and a lego pop-up over the half page that is somewhat difficult to close. Wtf happened.

#6
DunnDeal said on May 1, 2014 at 4:20 p.m.

I know this is off topic but did anyone else on Xbox 360 notice that Super/AE is listed as "StreetFighter IV" when you start it up now? Could this be because Ultra is coming out soon so they just want to justify the game as SF4?

"Dunn Dealz has started playing StreetFighter IV" <---------
Anyway, I like it.

#7
Yisandra said on May 1, 2014 at 4:21 p.m.

Let the hate begins !

#8
KarbyP said on May 1, 2014 at 4:22 p.m.

The tips are not so much for Cammy vs. Ryu.

They are tips for the Cammy vs. Daigo match-up.

#9
deteknician said on May 1, 2014 at 4:25 p.m.

Ok so I wont ever beat players on this level.

#10
TheTHCGamer said on May 1, 2014 at 4:25 p.m.
#11
gaming99 said on May 1, 2014 at 4:30 p.m.

good stuff, this is very informative.

#12
fang said on May 1, 2014 at 4:33 p.m.

Just think all those bad matchups and Daigo still won the world league

#13
SunaharaRaja said on May 1, 2014 at 4:37 p.m.

Amazing analysis from xiao hai. It's always good to know how deep are the mindgames going on during a match when most of us can only see it superficially.

#14
Ginta36 said on May 1, 2014 at 4:39 p.m.

Everyone, everywhere post your "against Daigo tech".

#15
AmIAWizard said on May 1, 2014 at 4:39 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#16
Lionheart819 said on May 1, 2014 at 4:40 p.m.

Not trying to be a Daigo fanboy, but I think is should mention in the article that Daigo said that he was ONLY focusing on Bonchan on the last day. Xiao Hai can go on and talk about this all he wants (a good article), but fact is, Daigo was only focusing on Bonchan. Daigo said that if he wanted first, he need to beat Bonchan, not Xiao Hai.

#17
MANDINGO said on May 1, 2014 at 4:42 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#18
diddykv said on May 1, 2014 at 4:42 p.m.

More players should do that kind of stuff, because it's useful for both characters involved. I I'm not a big fan of Cammy myself, but Xiao Hai's insights are always a pleasure to read. Xian's Academy is another thing that I like.

Even newbies like me can learn and try to get better with the slightest help from the pros.

#19
SteadiestShark said on May 1, 2014 at 4:47 p.m.

@ #3, #4 & #16.

Lol, harsh.

I kinda agree though, it's not too crazy of an accomplishment to create an anti-daigo thesis when your character has so many tools vs his.

#20
MANDINGO said on May 1, 2014 at 4:49 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#21
jkuc316 said on May 1, 2014 at 4:53 p.m.

Fro what I've read, China's FGC is strong. Like Japanese arcades where even a regular player is strong.

#22
Balthier said on May 1, 2014 at 4:55 p.m.

Cammy vs Ryu 5-5?? Go home Xiao Hai, you are drunk.

Of course if he only mentions "footsies" it looks even, but that is not the whole picture. Cammy´s okizeme, unblockables, damage output, ultra 1 agaisnt fireball... That is what he forgot to write down.

#23
LK said on May 1, 2014 at 5:03 p.m.

Good stuff, I love it. *reads original Chinese text*

#24
LK said on May 1, 2014 at 5:04 p.m.

Against Daigo's Ryu, it's 5-5.

#25
NYCraziSalvi516 said on May 1, 2014 at 5:05 p.m.

You should keep reading it. Xiao Hai is way smarter than people give him credit for and he dismantled Daigo at Topanga.

#26
Green016 said on May 1, 2014 at 5:07 p.m.

Uh he won because of Cammy period.

#27
MANDINGO said on May 1, 2014 at 5:09 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#28
LK said on May 1, 2014 at 5:13 p.m.

I can't wait see that runback at Evo 2014.

#29
NYCraziSalvi516 said on May 1, 2014 at 5:16 p.m.

Pretty much. Some you guys are blind if you can't respect Xiao Hai skill.

#30
kaka said on May 1, 2014 at 5:18 p.m.

Wow all these haters who talk about match ups and yet refuse to argue his points
He gave a great analysis and all I read is durrrf cammy-ryu 6-4

#31
evo546 said on May 1, 2014 at 5:18 p.m.

I find it funny how Daigo beat Xiao Hai 7-4 at Topanga Asia League now Xaio hai beat Daigo 7-4 Topanga world League. LOL

#32
MANDINGO said on May 1, 2014 at 5:21 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#33
Anon said on May 1, 2014 at 5:29 p.m.

"...and since even in USF4 the Ryu vs. Cammy match-up more or less remains unchanged..."

I think it's a bit premature to say this especially with Cammy's nerfs, delayed wakeup, red focus, and dp fadc being -5 on block.

Even if it ends up be 6-4 in Cammy's favor again the match will play out differently than in v2012.

#34
Remondo02 said on May 1, 2014 at 5:40 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#35
UCLAplayer said on May 1, 2014 at 5:42 p.m.

I think he meant the footsie details of the match.

Which is more or less true, except for Ryu's cr.mk -> fireball becoming a true blockstring at most ranges. That's pretty huge in footsies for this match and I'm surprised he ignored that

Cammy losing setups/unblockables is not a big deal. Her j.lk midscreen unblockable is horribly overrated. At top level, Ryu can focus dash out of it and be completely safe if he guesses correctly. Against a player with top level timing, you're almost better off doing ambiguous divekick after backthrows, because then the setup becomes a 50/50 that can punish focus on reaction

#36
Ralenzo said on May 1, 2014 at 5:46 p.m.

I get the exact same Lego commercial. When trying to close it, it expanded and I clicked on it accidentally.

#37
Ibuki said on May 1, 2014 at 5:48 p.m.

Xiao Hai is so smart. I hate how everyone immediately disregards his skill because he plays Cammy. Cammy is not OP. High level Cammy players deserve credit because it takes a certain play style to use her effectively, not everyone can play offensively/ tactical at high level..

With that being said his Evil Ryu is extremely strong as well. He barely lost to Fuudo and Pr Balrog (7-4 and 7-5......)

A lot of people can't accept the fact that Xiao Hai plays to win. Therefore he will always pick a strong character and he will even counter-pick if he has too. That my friends is the mind set of a smart player!

#38
Gotomaster said on May 1, 2014 at 5:54 p.m.

I'm all for playing to win. Just don't sugar-coat it is all.

#39
MANDINGO said on May 1, 2014 at 6:01 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#40
konachin said on May 1, 2014 at 6:05 p.m.

lol at people hating on xiaohai.
dudes talking shlt here wouldn't take a round on daigo with cammy and xiaohai coaching step by step.

#41
brandaman69 said on May 1, 2014 at 6:07 p.m.

I agree with everything except that Cammy is not OP. Cammy is definitely OP because she has the best vortex game, most damaging/stunning combos, and some of the best footsies. Everyone says that Xiao Hai would have won topanga if he used Cammy the whole way through. I disagree because Fuudo beat Xiao Hai the last time they played (I think it was at the Cafe Id tournament, and PR Balrog has a good character matchup and the most Cammy experience against the other high level Cammy players.

#42
KingKong said on May 1, 2014 at 6:10 p.m.

China's got like 1 billion inhabitants. They're bound to have at least a couple of talented players. It's a statistical matter.

#43
Remondo02 said on May 1, 2014 at 6:55 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#44
Wintry said on May 1, 2014 at 7:09 p.m.

And so we wait for the rematch...

#45
Smorgasboard said on May 1, 2014 at 7:13 p.m.

If Daigo was this whiny about Akuma, he would never have studied the matchup and beaten Infiltration.

please write an article just as detailed as Xiaohai's to show how Xiaohai gets in on Daigo easily. I'm sure he'll appreciate the help. This is the level that top players discuss matchups and if you break it down to a science, you better stick to criticising players your own level.

#46
MyKiLL said on May 1, 2014 at 7:27 p.m.

ITT: Fraudulent naysayers who are delusional to think that Cammy is reason enough to disregard Xiao Hai.

#47
kdavis851 said on May 1, 2014 at 7:31 p.m.

Amen.

#48
Eye_of_Orochi said on May 1, 2014 at 7:36 p.m.

Comparing the Ryu/Cammy matchup to T. Hawk/Blanka wow. So many Ryu scrubs with no sense of fundamentals. No amount of nerfs to one character you hate for being a good match up against Shotos (instead of even or better) is going to help you types of players. I'll be seeing all of you same lames crying after one week of Ultra about the next hated flavor of the month and whatever else beats Shotos.

It makes me sad Cammy got nerfed by suggestion of players like this, but happy that she's still good and a lot more fair (yet people will still whine).

#49
SelamatPagi said on May 1, 2014 at 8:02 p.m.

B-b-but pro players win because of their genetic predisposition to winning and mind-reading abilities Kappa

#50
ZenRazor said on May 1, 2014 at 8:02 p.m.

Wasn't Daigo focusing on Bonchan?

#51
Smorgasboard said on May 1, 2014 at 8:03 p.m.

There is a typo in my post. Should be "if you can't break it down to a science".

#52
tktktk43 said on May 1, 2014 at 8:11 p.m.

Much respect to Xiao Hai for breaking it down for us. It really is mind blowing to see the intricate thoughts. I always knew pro players put in the time but this is just insane. I would love for all pro players to break down their thoughts and strategies but most would prefer to keep to themselves. This read was a real treat.

#53
Gotomaster said on May 1, 2014 at 8:37 p.m.

Wait, people are actually comparing the Ryu/Cammy match to T.Hawk/Blanka? T.Hawk is no where near as versatile as Ryu. Xiao Hai won his game fair and square, people.

#54
DarkFlare07 said on May 1, 2014 at 8:57 p.m.

Qft!

And to all the dickriderz, we'll stop talking when he proves himself without a godtier.

#55
RedEther said on May 1, 2014 at 8:59 p.m.

Daigo nut-huggers will defend him no matter the result sadly lol

#56
Fallenrose777 said on May 1, 2014 at 9:11 p.m.

exactly, how can you brag when your using one of the best characters in the game. thats like playing umvc and bragging when you win using vergil and wesker. lol

#57
spotlesseden said on May 1, 2014 at 9:28 p.m.

Daigo lost the match. Daigo beat Xiao last year in the same tournament, so the matchup can't be that bad. You win some, you lose some. Daigo still won the tournament anyway.

Xiao Hai is great player, it's not the character. He will still a great player when ultra drops.

#58
MANDINGO said on May 1, 2014 at 9:41 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#59
TheMasterPlayer said on May 1, 2014 at 9:46 p.m.

I have a feeling that the next time they meet, Daigo will need to counter pick with his Yun. It's pretty evident from the recent tournament that the Ryu-Cammy match up is in Cammy's favor.

#60
MANDINGO said on May 1, 2014 at 9:46 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#61
JIHADJOE said on May 1, 2014 at 10:05 p.m.

Actually, DISMANTLED is exactly the right word. He carefully analyzed Daigo's Ryu and won by carefully breaking his defenses, one by one.

dis·man·tle (dĭs-măn′tl)
tr.v. dis·man·tled, dis·man·tling, dis·man·tles
1.
a. To take apart; disassemble; tear down.
b. To put an end to in a gradual systematic way:

#62
urien said on May 1, 2014 at 10:11 p.m.

i personnlly played xiaohai numerous time in guangzhou.
he's sponsored by quanba and numerous arcade manufacturers along with dakou.
one thing is known to all chinese though.he is very pride of his skills.not modest at all and like to (dont like the word) tier whore.
in every versions he chooses tier.
i played him in sf4 he was playing gouki,in sf4 (in a arcade stick shop) he played fei and cammy.And in AE he juggles between cammy,akuma ,Evil ryu and yun.
its not his first time doing it,hes also china best KOf 97 player.
only chooses top tiers is almost a xiaohai's trademark.
in the chinese FGC (to answer some of you guys)SF was never considered big,there is kof 97 and tekken huge community that fills almost every arcade.Sf4 cabs can be counted on the palm of a hand.
but were noticing a significant change of trends these past 2 years.
cities like guangzhou,,shenzhen,beijing,dalian are becoming more invested in sf with big events and occasionally some guest invites.
mike ross,sako and others were invited once,xian and zhi were there last time.
Also it is a YES the random chinese arcade player is stronger than random american or european player but still behing japanese.

as for daigo being beaten by little kid (translation name) ,well his dream (along with all chinese players) is to beat haiyuan(daigo).
in my own experience ,only final result matters.
@Redether
while XH was fighting insomnia,Daigo was probably dreaming on his next bowl of ramen.
cheers

#63
neogeomaster said on May 1, 2014 at 10:25 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#64
MANDINGO said on May 1, 2014 at 10:29 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#65
ZaFuuru said on May 1, 2014 at 10:38 p.m.

Blah blah blah. This is how you beat Daigo: Cammy is OP and you had the matchup advantage.

#66
hlxino said on May 1, 2014 at 11:52 p.m.

for one of the rare times we get an insight on a pro player's mind, all we get is tier whoring, cammy op and all the crap.

Stay free america, welcome the new chinese overlords.

#67
Ahgama said on May 2, 2014 at 12:08 a.m.

It seems XH does have a reputation of being arrogant (with plenty of examples to back it up) but in any case it's pretty sad to see people just ignore the entire passage and go lolololol cammy op. Even if one doesn't agree with his analysis, the point is to look at how he approaches the character and player match in the first place.

#68
CaptainPlanet said on May 2, 2014 at 12:27 a.m.

This level of play is incredible.

And seems to me KarbyP is a language master ^_^

#69
SpiderUppercut said on May 2, 2014 at 12:28 a.m.

Not really interested in what this dude has got to say.

Daigo losing is more of an issue caused by Capcom's sloppy 'rebalancing' over the last 5 or 6 years.

It's just Ryu being subjected to continual nerfing and changing and the rest of the cast been given options to simply ignore fireball pressure instead of blocking them, like in previous street fighter games.

SF4 hasn't been decent since Super SF4, and thats over 3 years ago.

Shame on you Capcom for thinking what you're doing to someone who has done so much for your game in terms of selling it to the masses is OK.

Wake up.

#70
SpiderUppercut said on May 2, 2014 at 12:29 a.m.

Thanks dude.

Glad someone has a brain.

#71
hawseow said on May 2, 2014 at 12:32 a.m.

Those who dismiss the entire breakdown because they dislike Xiaohai or disagree with his matchup rating do so at their own detriment. Kudos to Xiaohai and the translator/s involved for providing this insight into the thought processes involved.

#72
Yisandra said on May 2, 2014 at 3:01 a.m.

Still waiting for any american to flowchart his way to the top with cammy.

#73
xianmsg said on May 2, 2014 at 3:02 a.m.

Xiao hai such a great and talented player. A kof god!!

#74
JIHADJOE said on May 2, 2014 at 3:43 a.m.

I thought that was K-Brad?
#yesiwentthere #thatguy

#75
Temtt said on May 2, 2014 at 3:59 a.m.

I think it's important to note that Daigo focused on Bonchan at the point he played Xiao Hai as the outcome didn't matter (for Daigo) and I think you could see it in the way he played. He played very loose and reckless...maybe a little bit too loose.

Anyway, I'm not a big fan of Xiao Hai. Since he started playing SF4 he played the cheapest/easiest-to-win-with character in every iteration of the game (so far)- AE Yun and AE2012 Cammy.

#76
darkunor said on May 2, 2014 at 4:10 a.m.

The interesting thing here is that defeating Daigo will probably be the biggest highlight of Xiao Hai's career. Whereas if Daigo were to defeat Xiao Hai, Xiao Hai would just be another statistic crapped on by the legendary Umehara!

#77
darkunor said on May 2, 2014 at 4:12 a.m.

Oh, and for the guys complaining about tier whoring... I think I'll just drop this here;

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/interm...

#78
gaming99 said on May 2, 2014 at 4:54 a.m.

#68 can you post and ask him why he picked E. Ryu against pr. rog?
I am interested to see his thought and his analysis for his match other than Daigo.

I mean , I looked up the forum , it is already reached to pages 5 and yet he hasn't explained anything about his other matches.

I got the feeling that he was more proud beating Daigo than actually placing #2 at Topanga. Not only him, but every other player who beat Daigo once or twice feels like they have won EVO or something.

Gosh, I got it, you beat Daigo, you are automatically the best player in the world lol.

#79
zombie_sama said on May 2, 2014 at 5:20 a.m.

People please, stop whining about tier, how cheap Cammy is and appreciate this note. Xiao Hai is talking about top level play so the MU is 5-5 period.

I am not a fan of Cammy nor Xiao Hai but I respect him for this. Sharing this kind of info (the thinking process, the mind game,...) could GET HIM INTO TROUBLE the next time he faces another high level Ryu yet he DID.

#80
gatts12 said on May 2, 2014 at 5:49 a.m.

Xiao hai certainly provide a good in depth analysis, but it covers only the footsies game (or the ground game), in this specific domain yes both Ryu and Cammy have equivalent tools when meterless (2Mk OS Spiral arrow or Hadoken), the story is not the same when cammy has a 1 ex bar, or Ultra, since in this condition, Ryu loses "distance control" using the Hadoken, and cammy can get in pretty easly.

Xaio Hai did not discus the after "knock down game" which is a vital factor in the match-up, not surprised here, since the player is known for his intellectual dishonesty.

#81
Yisandra said on May 2, 2014 at 5:56 a.m.

*sarcasm* Nah, the guy must be terrible. Any half decent player would be able to be #1 in every tourney he enters with cammy.
I mean, xiao, an average scrub playing cammy beat daigo, the best ryu we know, and one of the 5 best player (at least), so there must be someone able to win everything with her

No seriously, people there are so insulting toward daigo. Oh and stop with those "can't wait for ultra to drop". I watched the first 20min of the set and ultra would have been the same. Maybe even worse because of -5 dp fadc. So get ready to cry for another 5 years.

#82
XeroDgX said on May 2, 2014 at 6:22 a.m.

Let's see, Daigo beats Dhalsim (a really bad match up for shotos) then people proclaim him as god, daigo beats all cammys then we say Daigo is the best, Daigo got owned by Infiltration's Akuma then we say this match is not even, but now that he whooped Infiltration's candy ass we say he is the best, Akuma is weak and blah blah blah.

Then again, nobody said anything when he picked top tiers as Yun in AE(which he said was it favorite character of all time and he will never drop him, but since he was nerfed a little bit he just quitted), Akuma at the beginning of AE 2012, Guile in SFIV.......people need to learn to accept the fact that Daigo can also lose, there are players who actually can figure him out.....DAIGO IS THE BEAST, agree with that, but he can lose too so stop complaining about top tiers a bottom tiers, best example is Ixion, look what can do this guy with the undisputed worst character of the game....

#83
Cyan said on May 2, 2014 at 6:27 a.m.

Xiao Hai: How I beat Zangief with Sagat - An in-depth analysis

#84
jimmyeatsquaids said on May 2, 2014 at 6:47 a.m.

1. nobody said akuma is weak after seeing daigo beat infiltration.

2. when did daigo claim yun is his favorite character of all time and he will never drop him? that's new information for me at least. as far as I know daigo made it clear that yun is by far the best in AE and he didn't see the point in not picking him just for that.

3. daigo always had pocket characters like guile and yes he even did play akuma in AE v2012 for awhile, but saying he tried to main those characters like he did with ryu and yun is a stretch.

I think (hope) people know that daigo (just like every other top player) will lose from time to time, that still doesn't mean tiers don't mean anything.

there is a reason why cammy players hardly get any recognition: it's hard to see if a player can perform well if you take away the crazy vortex. we'll see what happens in USFIV.

#85
RedCycloneKen said on May 2, 2014 at 6:55 a.m.

People hating need to take note on how many Cammy can beat Daigo's Ryu in a long set... none so far as I recall. So let's just appreciate his sharing, not just from Cammy's perspective but also Ryu users can learn a thing or two about how Cammy approach you.

#86
zeuvs3 said on May 2, 2014 at 7:01 a.m.

hehe.....Hahahahahaha........ i already working on a guide how to beat T.hawk with blanka^^

#87
keefpadthai said on May 2, 2014 at 7:16 a.m.

Sounds like an excuse. C'mon man, give dude SOME credit. Xiao prep'd for the match and won. Even if it was for with a top tier character.

#88
RedCycloneKen said on May 2, 2014 at 7:27 a.m.

To be honest, I am more sad about Daigo not giving Xiao Hai credit, and just went on to say he didn't care about the match, only focus on Bonchan...etc. He didn't respect his opponent, and so I lost some respect to him.

#89
perfume said on May 2, 2014 at 7:36 a.m.

(This user was banned.)

#90
LK said on May 2, 2014 at 7:41 a.m.

You guys all ignoring the fact Xiao Hai gave Daigo the highest respect, he lost sleep over the thoughts of fighting Daigo.

To a lot of players, regardless of nationality, Daigo Umehara is the ICON that you have to beat at least once to feel like you have achieved true greatness. Xiao Hai in this scenario is just saying to the world "Ya, I did it, I am proud of beating the legendary Street Fighter player of all time".

If that's not RESPECT, what is RESPECT?

#91
KingKong said on May 2, 2014 at 7:50 a.m.

perfume why don't you read the comments before spouting bullcrap? People are not making excuses for Daigo losing, they're making excuses for Xiao winning.

#92
ChoseDeath said on May 2, 2014 at 8:26 a.m.

Thank you for sharing your personal insight from China! That added much to the conversation, and is appreciated.

#93
G0dmqsteR said on May 2, 2014 at 8:43 a.m.

Here's my gameplan with Cammy: Just Do It™

#94
JimmyLoves said on May 2, 2014 at 9:39 a.m.

Xiao Hai, Chi Rithy, KBrad, Popi, Breno Fighters, etc.... Where were all these guys before v2012? Were they winning any tournaments?

Where are all the AE yun players? You know, those guys who said it wasn't the character.

Xiao Hai beat Daigo. It's a nice accomplishment. Yet, he obviously still feels insecure about it which is why he says the matchup is 5-5.

We all saw what happened when Xiao Hai picked e.ryu. He wanted to prove he wasn't a fraud and could win without Cammy. He couldn't. He's not even on the level of top USA players, like jwong and pr rog.

#95
bonchon said on May 2, 2014 at 10:05 a.m.

AE Yun players -
Daigo, Momochi, Xian, Kazunoko, Ryan Hart, Kindevu, Hsien Chang, xiao Hai

They all seem to be doing much better in AE2012 than AE, so yes it wasn't the character.

#96
ikahage0721 said on May 2, 2014 at 10:06 a.m.

Daigo本人は2012Ryuで一番厳しいキャラがDhalsimで次に厳しいのがCammyだと以前から述べている
YHCmochiに処理されてたり新宿タイステで Aqua(Cammy) 11-3 Daigo(Ryu) とかで
負けてるの見ると完全に6:4マッチアップ。別にXhaohaiだけが出来る事じゃ無いからな
ある程度のDhalsimかCammy使いなら勝ち越せる。そんなものにアナライズも糞も無いわ
単純にキャラ性能の差。それを心に刻んどけよゴミ共

#97
genocide_cutter said on May 2, 2014 at 10:33 a.m.

Xiao hai has always been better Daigo. After all he's only the best kof 98 in the world

#98
Wedge said on May 2, 2014 at 10:46 a.m.

Lol scrubs still complaining about Cammy. He plainly said it's normally 6-4, but 5-5 at the highest level (i.e. Daigo's Ryu). Also there is almost no mixup game at the high level, because those players know how to counter most setups. If mixups were that important, Bon-Chan would never win anything.

#99
DenoK said on May 2, 2014 at 11:19 a.m.

"Also there is almost no mixup game at the high level, because those players know how to counter most setups."

lol...did you even watch their match? Because what you said isn't true for their match at all.

Load more comments


Post a comment

You're not logged in, you must Login to your account to post a comment.

If you do not have an account, you need to Register to comment. It's a free and quick process.

You're not logged in, you must Login to your account to post a comment.

If you do not have an account, you need to Register to comment. It's a free and quick process.