Updated again: UltraDavid, Alex Myers, and Alioune's Ultra Street Fighter 4 tier lists; Filipino Champ's Dhalsim match-up chart

Posted by Steven 'Dreamking23' Chavez • June 19, 2014 at 8:05 p.m. PDT

Updated: UltraDavid and Alex Myers have joined in on the Ultra Street Fighter 4 tier list creation. Below you can find early impressions from each of the players listed in the headline.

Earlier: RG|Filipino Champ has just posted a match-up chart for Dhalsim in Ultra Street Fighter 4 that lists the character's fights from most difficult to easiest. Champ notes that the middle line consists of 5-5 match-ups, and that those characters are in no particular order due to being even.

BCN|Alioune, known for his exceptional Cammy play in Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition v2012, has created an Ultra Street Fighter 4 tier list and posted it up on to Twitter.

This list is based on how Alioune sees the cast so far, but notes that it is subject to change in the coming weeks. Still, you'll find which characters he feels are best at the top of the list and the not-so-good characters towards the bottom.

Check out the image below and let us know if you agree with this list in the comments section below.

Click images for larger versions

Source: MMCafe, RG|Filipino Champ, Alex Myers, and UltraDavid.


FinestFighters said on June 17, 2014 at 7:33 p.m.

and offcourse Dhalsim is low tier again..

boulderabuser said on June 17, 2014 at 7:34 p.m.

Poor DeeJay

JrockEclipse said on June 17, 2014 at 7:35 p.m.

Don't fully agree with this list.

AAKZ said on June 17, 2014 at 7:36 p.m.

This is a really sh--ty list.

OhYouDontSayThat said on June 17, 2014 at 7:36 p.m.

*fart noises with mouth*

zombiebrian said on June 17, 2014 at 7:36 p.m.

Not a bad list athough I'd contest Chun being well rounded and I think Abels a touch higher

FADCTAUNT said on June 17, 2014 at 7:37 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

Zero888 said on June 17, 2014 at 7:37 p.m.

Yang? I like. Went from almost unplayable to a threat, it's good Capcom at least balanced him out pretty well, I hope.

diddykv said on June 17, 2014 at 7:40 p.m.

Now that Evil Ryu is top tier, I'm switching from pad to joystick. Instead of some red focus love, I'll be learning how to FADC :\

Gotomaster said on June 17, 2014 at 7:41 p.m.

I really am against early tierlist. This game is going to change considerably in just a month alone, essentially making this list completely irrelevant. Lets just try and understand the new mechanics, and changes first, pls.

Sadisticcupid said on June 17, 2014 at 7:42 p.m.

Oh poison is way higher then that, and viper got nerfed in the patch and still should be dropped down a bit.

Wintry said on June 17, 2014 at 7:43 p.m.

I think everyone who complains that tiers shouldn't be out just a month into the game needs to keep in mind that things WILL change. I take these things with a grain of salt, because I definitely think some of the lower characters aren't as bad as they look.

TheTTimeLives said on June 17, 2014 at 7:46 p.m.

Yang, Juri, Seth, Rolento, Sagat are lower.

Gouken, Chun, T. Hawk, Dudley, Bison, Elena are higher.

DMAN367 said on June 17, 2014 at 7:49 p.m.

Bs list ;)

Strider_Hien said on June 17, 2014 at 7:52 p.m.

Question:Why are we obsessing about tier lists? Shouldn't we play the game with whoever we like,without being influenced by outside sources? Things like this create things like "Top Tier" Cammy and that's that....No room for experimentation.Let's just enjoy the game and those things will fall into place in time....IMHO.

r0my5 said on June 17, 2014 at 7:52 p.m.

yeah juri "top tier" just like she was "secret high tier" in ae. then you look at majors where she rarely makes top32 or online where the top 10 BP players for her are the lowest of the cast

N1ggadelic said on June 17, 2014 at 7:53 p.m.

Yaaaaasssss the top player weight ins, nnnnooow things get interesting

Getdownbrown83 said on June 17, 2014 at 7:56 p.m.

yhc-mochi put the beats on fuudo and kazunoko convincingly bout a week ago

Existent said on June 17, 2014 at 7:56 p.m.

I didn't agree with his AE list and I don't agree with this one.

omegamarth said on June 17, 2014 at 7:59 p.m.

Yeah, Rolento is crap. I love how everyone thought he was going to be good. :(

deus said on June 17, 2014 at 8:04 p.m.

imo Juri has always been top tier but hey, i'm happy that a pro player has her as top 8 in this version.

i feel that Abel n Dudley are higher tier than what Alioune has listed but hey, we've all got our own opinions n i respect that. cheers Alioune

nocturnal said on June 17, 2014 at 8:05 p.m.

Vega is much higher than that. Better than Balrog and Hawk for sure

gintoki said on June 17, 2014 at 8:08 p.m.

alioune always knows who is top tier

JRXP2011 said on June 17, 2014 at 8:15 p.m.

No mames guey

Remondo02 said on June 17, 2014 at 8:22 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

BornFreeEH said on June 17, 2014 at 8:22 p.m.

Is Hugo really that bad? I've seen some good Hugo's online. I respect Alioune but, I don't know, I just think these lists are BS.

StellarSTLR said on June 17, 2014 at 8:23 p.m.

A resounding no

xBMxSage said on June 17, 2014 at 8:23 p.m.

With all the nerfs Seth got, how could he still be so high?

capra said on June 17, 2014 at 8:29 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

Hotdiddykong said on June 17, 2014 at 8:35 p.m.

People keep saying Hugo has big flaws and low tier.

But i hear the screams and rage of people going against Hugo even louder.

Remondo02 said on June 17, 2014 at 8:36 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

Kinimaster said on June 17, 2014 at 8:38 p.m.

Ryu better than Ken?

AceKombat said on June 17, 2014 at 8:38 p.m.

Yea... this list seems too early and some calls seem too awkward. He got Yun Viper and E.Ryu right for being on the top. Everything else looks so jumbled up and so wrong. Bison in the same league as Sagat?? Chun and Dudley rated that low?? Ken is worse than Ryu?? Oni Seth and Ryu that high?? It looks messy when looking outside the top spots. I think his AE tier list also had lots of negative feedback.

The_Big_Boss said on June 17, 2014 at 8:40 p.m.

Can't take this serious. Early tiers are always ugly to see. Let the game get some more time. Tech coming out everyday. People still getting used to red focus, delayed wakeup, etc. Come on Alioune. Your opinion is always appreciated though. I feel the list is off but hey he is the pro!

FightDirty said on June 17, 2014 at 8:47 p.m.

I respect Alioune for his skills and all - but that tier list is whack.

GammaChemical said on June 17, 2014 at 8:47 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

Akua said on June 17, 2014 at 8:54 p.m.

Tier lists are typically peoples opinions based on their experience and we should take it as something that is written in stone by any stretch.

saixhinata said on June 17, 2014 at 8:56 p.m.

Dont really agree with this at all. Stuff is all over the place except characters that obviously stand out.

bagel_bytez said on June 17, 2014 at 8:58 p.m.

And dhalsim coming in at 44th lololol

julito427 said on June 17, 2014 at 9:03 p.m.

I'm not a fan of the list. I don't particularly see Ryu being better than either Oni or Ken. Dudley is really, really low despite the fact that it's known he's become very powerful. Yang is pretty high, yet his main problem of low damage output is still an issue.

Poison needs to be much lower.

DunnDeal said on June 17, 2014 at 9:04 p.m.

I usually don't voice my opinions on a tier list but so much about this list just seems wrong.

neogeomaster said on June 17, 2014 at 9:10 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

fusion said on June 17, 2014 at 9:10 p.m.

he was really good till roll got nerfed. maybe other things too.

wonder if Nemo is still owning up post update.

SuperRoadFighter said on June 17, 2014 at 9:10 p.m.

First you say who the hell cares, then you go on to comment about the list? You contradict yourself immediately. Good job sir.

kac1010 said on June 17, 2014 at 9:11 p.m.

Dhalsim is DEFINITELY not the worst lol

MetsuRyu said on June 17, 2014 at 9:13 p.m.

ibuki is the second most well-rounded character in the game? ummm ok...

Ark_8 said on June 17, 2014 at 9:14 p.m.
deus said on June 17, 2014 at 9:16 p.m.

i think it was posted for discussion purposes.

1. no one till now has shared a tier list to discuss
2. everyone knows that the game is new
3. all regions should have different tier lists
4. no tier list should be exactly the same
5. tier lists are based on theory fighter
6. tier lists aren't the be all end all of a fighting game
7. 3S's Kuroda taught us that tier lists are good measurements of a characters ability but any character in the hands of a natural born killa is going to be on a tier of his own.
8. Alex Valle says that frame data is as good as the player's ability to think n react, which is imo likewise to tier lists - tier list is as good as the players that are available to use those characters
9. tier lists are to be discussed n aren't an official character tier listing
10. if you can't participate in the discussion of tier lists, but only want to talk about the person that wrote it, then you lack the intelligence n mind to add anything constructive / useful n so you should probably keep ranting about how you're elite at SF n anyone that has an Ultra tier list is an idiot. Go you ;)

ggs EH

Cascadian1106 said on June 17, 2014 at 9:18 p.m.

Somebody get Alioune to the nearest rehab facility. Some of the top tier guys look okay to me especially E. Ryu but putting Chun below Makoto, Fei and Sakura..... that's some crazy s**t he's smoking.

TaokakaBOOM said on June 17, 2014 at 9:25 p.m.

Not really feeling this one, but it's his opinion.

wBENDERw said on June 17, 2014 at 9:31 p.m.

perfect its his opinion...


tsgrimey said on June 17, 2014 at 9:33 p.m.

Tier chart is a bit strange. I'd say this will change after some USF4 tourneys. And we don't know what the new characters are capable of.

PlzBuffBalrog said on June 17, 2014 at 9:46 p.m.

Dude he got my guy at the same tier as Hugo come on now be real... I know he has flaws but he's still a solid character

akillyz said on June 17, 2014 at 9:50 p.m.

Vega is straight up mid tier on this lol.

anthonygamer said on June 17, 2014 at 9:55 p.m.

Gotta love Opinion list.

giefgrief said on June 17, 2014 at 9:57 p.m.

naw bro that doesn't have to be my story

Ett said on June 17, 2014 at 10:03 p.m.

You can't rushdown bro? Well then you are low tier to me. Iets talk about tier list after evo please

Smorgasboard said on June 17, 2014 at 10:23 p.m.

The difference between this tier list an one that is made next year isn't that one is more correct than the other but that one has less people saying that it's too early.

Early tier list is useful for people who based their character choices on tier list. I need to know who is good but not top tier.

capra said on June 17, 2014 at 10:27 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

eddywang said on June 17, 2014 at 10:35 p.m.

Lol, wait for evo then less find out. What's this?

badvb said on June 17, 2014 at 10:37 p.m.

Isn't that where many top players who are rocking the top tiers from this list? Middle line up appears pretty good. Could use the Japanese Arcade leader board but which has a good mix. Rushdown is a bit weaker with delayed wake up. It shouldn't take over three months to adjust most the roster to the current changes...the new characters may change a bit though as they just got many changes coming to console because of a month of data.

Baby_Astaroth said on June 17, 2014 at 10:42 p.m.

I can see the overall purpose of a tier list, but it really is too soon to put one of these out. I haven't even fought every character with their changes, but my mains are definitely higher on my own personal match up chart.

GoodMan said on June 17, 2014 at 10:47 p.m.

I feel that almost all the people here complaining about this list do so because they just don't like their characters placements. This is a current tier list meaning its for NOW. It WILL change but until more stuff is found out and revealed, this is pretty accurate. It's also his opinion.

sdstig said on June 17, 2014 at 10:50 p.m.

I don't think I'm really going to take any tier lists for this game seriously for awhile. At the minimum, not until after Evo. Almost everyone has been saying different things. Not just the pros but the average person as well, including the people on here. I mean it's good to see what people think so far, but I don't think anybody really has THAT much information to backup most of their decisions.

The only thing I'm convinced of is that Evil Ryu is pretty good because that's the only thing absolutely everyone agrees on from what I've seen.

jme said on June 17, 2014 at 10:55 p.m.

Hey #5 this who you should making the fart noise at

bryark said on June 17, 2014 at 11:03 p.m.

yeah, go ahead and keep underestimating rose

she's top 10 easy

pip said on June 17, 2014 at 11:16 p.m.

I think this list is very interesting and I appreciate that Alioune posted it. He said this list will change, so there's no reason to keep saying "it's too soon blabla". Of course it will change. I don't buy that guys visiting a Fighting site everyday are not interested in how top players feel the game balance right now. that's discussion material, same as TKD's list when Ultra was released in Arcades.

Nothing surprises me too much, except maybe Dhalsim as low as Hakan (I think Hakan was indeed ruined in Ultra with Delayed wake up and no red focus combo into ultra, but that Dhalsim is overall improved and helped by delayed wake up).

There is something that reassures me though : Alioune thinks Makoto is pretty good. I had the impression Capcom had overnerfed her (like they overnerfed Gen or Dee Jay), but I guess she has still good potential.

Kuya117 said on June 17, 2014 at 11:21 p.m.

My opinion of the tier list.

ForTheViolence said on June 17, 2014 at 11:34 p.m.

I respect what top players say but never this dood, he's always talking out of his ass. Yang is not top tier first of all, and I'm tired of people saying rose is better. SHE"S NOT. Short spiral range increase makes it so I don't have safe spirals anymore at any range, ex spiral being my only reversal is not throw invincible anymore, I'm constantly getting thrown out of it. and the 2 extra frames of recovery on ultra 2 make is so I can no longer activate just to keep corner pressure or beat out basic strong and heavy pokes. Before you couldn't even 3 frame jab me to beat it when you saw it activate, now some characters can hit me with a strong on reaction to the animation... Rose is worse, i don't care what anyone says.

ForTheViolence said on June 17, 2014 at 11:36 p.m.

tell us how, when her ultra 2 is two frames slower, she can be thrown out of her only crappy reversal and spiral isn't safe from any distance now. I'm sick of seeing people say this and riding on the ill advised band wagon top players who don't even play rose made.

Ascender said on June 17, 2014 at 11:41 p.m.

How...how is Yang so High up!?
All Yang got was walk speed buff and Slightly more dmg on His mantis slashes. Don't even get me started on his St Mp being cancelable, that Buff is so lack luster.

deus said on June 17, 2014 at 11:52 p.m.

"What's the point of making a theoretical tier list and not giving any reasons for the tiers?"

for people to discuss n share their thoughts. it's not like Alioune wrote the tier list with "this tier list is universal for everyone around the world". i don't want to insult Alioune's intelligence n assume that his tier list is not subject to change, as Ultra is less than a few weeks old.

"there is nothing here to discuss besides speculation on why he put characters where they are"

so there's nothing to discuss.. then all of a sudden there's a lot to discuss, judging by the size of your post. all of this, thanks to Alioune making a tier list. which was my point, that a top player making a tier list isn't for "this is the truth, n there's nothing to discuss about it", obviously, his thoughts / tier list is going to garner discussion n one would hope the discussion is constructive n informative.

if you are upset that i'd prefer a discussion over ranting about Alioune, then fine, sue me. i simply prefer people to talk about a tier list, Alioune's tier list or their own n make educated comparisons rather than half of the trash that has been written so far.

Sasuga said on June 17, 2014 at 11:56 p.m.

It's too late for tier lists now. I mean, the game has already been out for a couple of weeks.

PotatoMan said on June 18, 2014 at 12:03 a.m.

I agree with some of the character placings. Like I dont think Decapre is as good as everyone makes her out to be. I also feel that Hugo is not part of the lowest three imo.

deus said on June 18, 2014 at 12:04 a.m.

agreed, it is too soon. but don't you think it's something worth discussing? it's actually comical that a tier list is out but hey, i just disregard it n give it some mind.

i have fought every character with my mains + secondary but i haven't vs enough people that are strong with each character. the only characters with strong players i have vs are: Cammy, Yun, Seth, Akuma, Guy, Gief, Elf, Ken, Evil Ryu, Blanka, Gouken, Rose. n then it's usually myself n other strong players that are mucking around with the new characters in various matchups. i'd rather play in Japan, USA or some other country where i can play Ultra, all different matchups n for hours n hours before i'd give a tier list but sadly, my local is all I have.

cheers for the chilled reply

capra said on June 18, 2014 at 12:04 a.m.

(This user was banned.)

casper_ said on June 18, 2014 at 12:37 a.m.

he has yang really high up there. whats the general consensus on yang atm? heard some negative things about him in this version (i believe from floe)

Redking74 said on June 18, 2014 at 12:54 a.m.

Why it's so hard for the people here to understant that this is a tier list based on his experience FOR NOW?
It may change with time, it may change with matchup experience, time will tell; FOR NOW this is his OPINION on the game.
You dont agree? FINE.
Remember that Alioune is a top player that can play lots of chars at a very high competitive level and can play against high level opponents; his opinion is OBVIOUSLY affected by the opponents/character he may face.
Tier lists are useless, people should focus more on matchup knowledge.

Stompnik said on June 18, 2014 at 1:03 a.m.

I don't care much about tier lists but I get annoyed by EH nobodies, that question Aliounes knowledge and make bold statements without having proven themselves.

deus said on June 18, 2014 at 1:06 a.m.

you fail to understand anything i have said.

Alioune makes a tier list post.

peopel discuss the tier list n everything else that falls under a tier lists as a subject. if you fail to see that Alioune's post has caused people to have a discussion about his tier list then that's all on you.

i'm here to discuss Alioune's tier list n i find the differences in his tier list compared to my own n others to be interesting. most of the time, the discussion is 'top tiers' n 'low tier's rather than an entire / complete tier list. n i'm happy that Alioune has made a complete tier list less than a few weeks in :) take into account the obvious n this subject - Ultra SF4 tier list - is imo worth discussing, hence why there have been so many posts about it thus far.

deus said on June 18, 2014 at 1:12 a.m.

i share your views on this subject as well. some people can't comprehend that Alioune has made a tier list n it's like they take his word as facts n disregard common sense. that's just how EH is though, people will watch a combo video n put the ideas / concept down without taking into account that someone had to think of all this stuff n be creative n then took the time to put it all together n upload it.

i agree that tiers can be useless n people should focus more on matchup knowledge, but i don't find tier lists completely useless. i just think that a broad range of tier lists can make sense n matter in discussing character x pros n cons but sometimes, the tier list becomes an excuse for people to make when they lose. they mention the tier of the character n why certain matchups are impossible. sure, some matchups seem impossible but take into acc the human element, patterns / reading, reactions n creativity .. n hope lol then i'm sure, you've got a chance, even if your character is considered low tier. Poongko n Xian are good examples of this kind of thinking.

kingofthescrubs said on June 18, 2014 at 1:16 a.m.

(This user was banned.)

PeterComboFiendRosasHere said on June 18, 2014 at 1:23 a.m.

decent list. for the current, couple week old meta it looks pretty legit.

i would say yang should be lower but i just witnessed shine body smug with yang today, maybe alioune is right
interesting to see poison above elena (who everyone said was going to be SSS tier a few weeks ago). poison mite be that secret top tier.

only disagreement is that dudley needs to be higher. oh and look at my boy seth i told u those nerfs werent gonna hold him down hes got too many tools. and hugo mite be Z tier to pick up and play...but in the right hands that dude is a mother fukin killer

JIHADJOE said on June 18, 2014 at 1:35 a.m.

Sort of agree with the top. It's not quite clear who the very best is, but it definitely feels like a lot more characters are capable of winning compared to the Cammy/Akuma lockdown on the top of AE2012.

Rest of the chart is very debatable, but the way the top is sort of evened out and has more people in it seems right to me.

BUYACUSHUN said on June 18, 2014 at 1:36 a.m.

whats the point of this at all? "here are my thoughts that will change over the length of a month or even one match." if anyone wants to discuss matchups we got tons of forums and match finder. no good discussion is gonna come out of this post with its format and the range in knowledge/skill/experience/whatever. I always viewed these as the semi interesting pieces."oh you think so and so he is top tier? good for you!"

zombiebrian said on June 18, 2014 at 1:37 a.m.

I agree with deus, basically tier lists are great talking points especially early on. Its kinda silly to try and shoot down tier lists and tier talk on the basis of accuracy with it being a matter of opinion. Speculating is fun.

Its also interesting to see what a guy other top players listen too is thinking.

elgooki said on June 18, 2014 at 1:59 a.m.

Hahahaha louffy showed us you're totally wrong. He played alioune a bunch of time. You're just salty because you can't adapt.

Redking74 said on June 18, 2014 at 2:03 a.m.

What should be clear is HOW a tier list is compiled:
1- Tier lists based on matchup information, counting the points in matchup ratings (7-3 ist 7 point to one char and 3 to the other), more points=higher placement.
This kind of tiers could be the most accurate but in fac are not, since the matchup knowledge is very dependent on personal experience and can change if you play say in USA or in Jap.
2- Tierlists based on char potential, in which you weight strenghts and weaknesses of each char and place them according to "what they can and can't do"; the problem is that often a character with fewer option is not always weaker, plus sometimes the real strenght of a char will appear after years, with knowledge and experience....

It's even very hard to define the difference between tiers: how large is the gap beweeen a High tier and a Mid one?
This is why I find tiers useless, much better talk about MU knowledge.

T_CHEF said on June 18, 2014 at 2:17 a.m.

My poor simmy-poo on da bottom.....at least they didn't give a newcharacter an even better version of Yoga Catastrophe....oh wait...

FishyFighter said on June 18, 2014 at 3:25 a.m.

Honda should be at the bottom with Hugo & Dan, Hakan & DeeJay are better than them, top looks okay except for Juri being overrated as usual

wunsumsauce said on June 18, 2014 at 3:49 a.m.

I think Alioune is usually quite accurate and knows who's top tier quite early on, so I'll believe..

Taisutewarrior said on June 18, 2014 at 3:58 a.m.


NotAScrub said on June 18, 2014 at 4:02 a.m.

Ken might have had a chance to be better than Ryu if his m.kick buff stayed but nope. Still has a bad fireball plus dp fadc nerf.

irrenmann said on June 18, 2014 at 4:06 a.m.

Pretty sure his view on Sagat will be "evolving" before too long. I'd argue strongly that Honda has a harder time than Guy overall. Is Dan really any weaker than Dee Jay?

DougQuaidHauser said on June 18, 2014 at 4:12 a.m.

(This user was banned.)

Smorgasboard said on June 18, 2014 at 4:15 a.m.

It's too soon for tier lists but Dee Jay is definitely bottom tier.


COREY_1993 said on June 18, 2014 at 4:30 a.m.

what is this bulls--t?? cody is the top tier character...

Jokerme said on June 18, 2014 at 4:42 a.m.

Oh look, people think someone's opinion is wrong. How exciting.

I'd say Alioune is looking from his characters' perspective too much. He is basically rating these matchups from his matches of Juri, Yang, and Cammy. Not everybody play like him.

Otherwise is almost true for most characters.

BixHD said on June 18, 2014 at 4:59 a.m.

Yang top tier now? All for it \o/

thf24 said on June 18, 2014 at 5:21 a.m.

Who cares if it's too early? Of course tier lists aren't going to be accurate at this point. Alioune probably just wants to spark discussion, which is exactly what he accomplished.

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