EX Red Focus will crumple on level 1, creating new combos in Ultra Street Fighter 4 - hard knockdown on Ibuki's neckbreaker is back

Posted by Jonathan 'Catalyst' Grey • February 3, 2014 at 1:56 a.m. PST

Updated: We've added more notes about specific character changes into this story.

Capcom hosted a question and answer session to talk about the recent change log they posted for Ultra Street Fighter 4 the other day with associate producer, Mike Evans, and Neidel "Haunts" Crisan, who's their Digital Media Specialist.

The guys covered some of the big system mechanic changes, the four new fighters, along with a handful of returning character notes.

Evans pointed out that one of the changes that wasn't documented in the release notes is that level 1 EX Red Focus will actually crumple the opponent.

He feels a lot of new combos and strategies will develop from this change, and that's why EX Red Focus has a heavy cost of 3 meters.

Evans was also talking about how the team had been putting a lot of effort into the newer faces Elena, Hugo, Poison and Rolento, saying that the feedback they've been seeing about them lately has been more positive than it was in the past.

"We've been working a lot, especially on the four new characters. There's been a lot of love put into those characters, so it's good to see that people are rating them highly," said Evans.

Hit the jump for more details, along with the stream archive.

One of the points of contention among staff members was having an indicator when someone used the delayed wake up mechanic, though.

"We had debated internally about [if we should] have a visual cue," said Evans.

He noted that a lot of people requested an indicator, but they didn't want something that was distracting to the experience, so they struck a balance of just having the word 'Technical' come up on screen.

Evans stated that it doesn't show up at a time where you can see someone is using it, and react and adjust your strategy at that very moment to nail them — it's more so that you can tell this is something your opponent likes to utilize in a match, and try to counter it later on.

One of the more controversial changes was making it so that Dragon Punches/Kicks that are FADCed are -5 on block, making them punishable by throws and moves that are 5 frames of startup or faster, which includes some ultras.

"This is the hottest debate right now that we've had," said Evans. He added that most characters who had an invincible DP were usually -2 or -3 after an FADC in the current version.

"[It's] a big change, it's going to change the way a lot of the uppercut characters are played," he added.

Evans noted that one thing players might have overlooked is that this change applies to Light/Medium/Heavy attack buttons, but he said that EX DPs are currently the same.

Additional USF4 notes from the stream

Adon: A lot of Adon players complained about his st.HK only being one hit now, saying it took away too much from their ground game, so Capcom reverted the change.

Cody: Juggle potential has been increased on the knife. What that actually means is you can do follow ups that you couldn't otherwise do — if you're holding the knife. After a Light Criminal Upper, you can follow up with any number of knife attacks, like cr.HP.

Dan: His close HK being changed to Back + HK has given him new combo possibilities, from a bit further out where it couldn't be used previously. Apparently, Combofiend was able to pull off Back + HK, st.MP, Back + HK. Haunts said one of the combos that was pulled off was a jaw dropper. It also works as an anti air. The hit box increase on his Light Dan Kicks was to help it connect on smaller characters. His Ultra 2 was said to be greatly improved.

Dee Jay: They confirmed they EX Machine Gun Upper is still hit invincible, along with the other buffs the move received, like throw invincibility.

Gouken: They said his EX Hurricane Kick is "so good right now," hitting from further out, including crouching characters. They say it's a huge buff for the character. They talked about cancelling his Far Standing Light Kick into Fireballs and his Running Palm being a solid upgrade.

Ibuki: It was confirmed that she got her hard knockdown back on her regular Neckbreaker. With delayed standing, players will have more opportunities to escape her Kunai vortex now, though. The devs said Tsujigoe's recovery being removed gives her more mix up opportunities that weren't there before.

Ken: His EX Hurricane Kick was changed so you couldn't run away as easily with it, when using it on the way up in your jump. They're still adjusting and tweaking it, though.

Makoto: Her Fukiage (Upwards Punch) is only jump cancellable on hit now, but very powerful, so they had to tone it down. Both guys felt the move is a ton of fun to use in USF4, currently.

Rose: Like Yun, she got a considerable amount of damage buffs to her 'combo buttons'. They also gave her the 'huge contender' label when talking about how strong the characters are.

Seth: During the first few rounds of battle balance, Seth was buffed greatly. He's been dialed back now, but still has some interesting buffs, they said. The juggle potential on his Ultra 2 has been increased, so now if your opponent is cornered you can DP, FADC backwards and go into Ultra 2 and it'll combo. His Ultra 2 also hits more times than it did previously. They added that Seth is still a character they're thinking about daily, so he has potential to change before the final version of the game.

Vega: He got many buffs, and in testing it felt like he got a little too strong, so he had some changes reverted, like the invincible Scarlett Terror and cr.LP having an extra frame of hitstun. It was noted that his Super hitting on the way up is a big buff, as he can combo into it quite easily now.

Yang: His cross up jumping medium kick is some where between v2012 and Arcade Edition in terms of effectiveness. They say it's very good.

Yun: While his Up Kicks and command grabs got nerfed, his Medium Punch moves got buffed a lot, they felt, adding extra damage just by using pokes, and multiple MPs in combos. They noted that all of Yun's 'combo buttons' got buffed in damage — and that was not by mistake. He has a lot more damage output now. They felt Yun would be a 'huge contender' in USF4.

Twitch archive from Capcom Fighters.


Catalyst said on February 2, 2014 at 11:48 p.m.

There was A LOT of information in this archive, and I'm still scanning for details. If I catch anything more, I'll add it into the story, and leave a comment here with what I changed/added.

zombiebrian said on February 2, 2014 at 11:54 p.m.

cool liking the sounds of a few of the things in there

colossus said on February 2, 2014 at 11:57 p.m.

Poor Vega... He will be exactly the same as it is now :/

Catalyst said on February 2, 2014 at 11:59 p.m.

Added note about Dee Jay's EX Machine Gun Upper.

BigFraud said on February 3, 2014 at midnight

theres no point to use Yun anymore.

Catalyst said on February 3, 2014 at 12:01 a.m.

Added an explanation of why Ken's EX Hurricane Kick was changed when using it on the way up.

BrazilElectric said on February 3, 2014 at 12:01 a.m.

Just revert Bison's lk scissors to 0 on block and I'll settle for the fact that he will never ever win a major SF IV tournament. It's very sad that the original boss of the game is so limited at high level play. I wish Capcom listened and gave him his QCF U2 motion and a RELIABLE anti-air. 10 frame cr HP is still a joke.

Catalyst said on February 3, 2014 at 12:02 a.m.

Not that I'm an expert on Yun, but the Capcom guys seemed to very much emphasize how strong he still is in USF4. I did note that in the story, but yeah, he still seems VERY good.

OTheVariousKing said on February 3, 2014 at 12:03 a.m.

Good stuff Catalyst! I foresee a lot of people disagreeing with the Yun and Vega justifications. Although I do think they pleased a lot of people with the Adon and Ibuki reverts. At least the guys at Capcom seem to really be thinking about the changes they are making, even though it may not reflect very well in the change-log.

IMainDanHibiki said on February 3, 2014 at 12:08 a.m.

Well, so much for Ibuki being a better matchup for people who can't get away from her pressure. Delayed Wakeup? Okay, have an option select that puts you in another kunai setup.

Ugh. The only nerf I actually liked in the game is gone... Well, at least Ibuki players can be happy. I can understand why they were upset that they didn't keep that.

...Here's hoping the braindead Bison pressure still stays away though with that -1 Scissor Kick nonsense.

Here's hoping Yun isn't sent to garbageland. And Vega is now back in useless tier... again. Come on, Capcom. Vega wasn't too strong, he finally had what he needed to be VIABLE, there's a difference.

Rose doesn't need buffs. Catlist proves that every day. (Kappa)

Adon 2 hit HK is whatever, he has like 3 armour breaking moves anyway.

Dee Jay is still looking to be the worse version of Guile here. No surprise there.

All in all... disappointing. I hope they actually buff low tiers with meaningful buffs instead of useless crap gimmick buffs like Cody or Dan.

Catalyst said on February 3, 2014 at 12:09 a.m.

Just added a note about Cody where he's able to do some nice juggles if he's holding the knife. Apparently he can currently juggle after a Light Criminal Upper into cr.HP, but only if he's holding the knife. Should be a very nice buff if it stays in.

Catalyst said on February 3, 2014 at 12:09 a.m.

Just an FYI, both of the Capcom guys stressed that these changes are NOT final. I know you've all heard that before, but I figured I'd mention it again.

Catalyst said on February 3, 2014 at 12:12 a.m.

Added another note to Ibuki's graph, the Tsujigoe having no recovery creates more mix ups for her.

zombiebrian said on February 3, 2014 at 12:14 a.m.

Tsujigoe's is the usles jump move ibuki can flip over opponents with but as the recovery kinda made it worthless it's be intresting to see how this affects her

IMainDanHibiki said on February 3, 2014 at 12:16 a.m.

Personally I still think Tsujigoe is going to be useless unless you can do more things with it like cancel it into air normals or something like that. THAT'D be a really cool and relatively balanced change to give Ibuki a twist to her playstyle.

Catalyst said on February 3, 2014 at 12:16 a.m.

Yeah, they said most of the feedback asked them to remove it from the game, so I guess they tried to make it useful in some way by removing the recovery.

KatzuyaSagara said on February 3, 2014 at 12:17 a.m.

What?! First they tell me Vega was being Buffed! Then they take everything away?! THIS IS FU$·%$·& MADNESS!!!

And "Too strong"? Yeah right...why did Capcom took 2 years to see that Cammy and Seth were "Too strong" in AE2012?

Vega is weak, predictible and underrated...he needed those Buffs to be on par with other characters...but yeah...give more chance to characters like Adon or Gief...

Sorry guys...I'm...I'm a little angry...u_u...I thought this was the "Year of The Claw"...maybe some other time Vega will reign supreme...like the SUPER Turbo Days....

zombiebrian said on February 3, 2014 at 12:21 a.m.

Seems to me if you were this happy about the buffs the reason was possibly it would make it the year of the claw and thats not what balance is about. Your right he is underrated and does need buff but the aim isnt to make him the best.

On a side note f*ck capcom from the fellowship of the thigh... jus sayin

zombiebrian said on February 3, 2014 at 12:21 a.m.

Also wasnt vega pretty good in cvs2?

Catalyst said on February 3, 2014 at 12:22 a.m.

Added note about Makoto's upwards punch only being jump cancellable on hit now.

IMainDanHibiki said on February 3, 2014 at 12:22 a.m.

The way I see it, Capcom is nerfing the people who are starting to win a lot now. They see Vega and Fuerte actually doing well matchwise, and instead of giving people time to adapt and ACTUALLY make informed and educated decisions, they just go like 'Oh he's OP after maybe 2 days of play let's nerf everything and make them useless again'

It makes literally zero sense. It's like if Dan started actually being good and actually had 2 or 3 6-4 matchups, and they took away what made him good because he started actually becoming a better character without being overpowered.

And then they toss in useless gimmick crap to make it look like these characters (Not just Dan.) are getting buffed when it really makes zero difference whatsoever.

It's horrible.

lordkinnikuman said on February 3, 2014 at 12:25 a.m.

Yo . Can someone tell me whats happinin with vega? Cuz everytime i see a usf related topic vega got some kind of new nerf. Please explain it to me??

Catalyst said on February 3, 2014 at 12:27 a.m.

The impression I got from watching the guys talk is that Vega has been really strong in some of the USF4 builds, and they're adjusting him a bunch to find the right balance.

Some of the changes they gave him made him too strong, so they're toning him down again.

Memanruler said on February 3, 2014 at 12:29 a.m.

Those Vega changes...

Man, I don't even play the guy and I feel sad for him. Sure Zeus won Defend the North against Cammy, but he's a super character-specialist. Without better tools, I don't see much people switching over to Claw. Not to mention, comboing into Super doesn't sound all that useful, considering he uses that meter for his bnb.

Yun getting more damage worries me, because he is a combo machine. The invincibility loss doesn't come into play much if you can't stop his pressure. He was always good, so the rich get richer but also has to pay off a few debts.

Cody, you really wanna use that knife huh? Capcom might as well just start having the knife equipped before the match begins. But tacking on extra damage is always nice, who knows, maybe we'll see some crazy new knife juggle combos.

Dee Jay's EX Machine Gun Blow seems to be wake-up go to if it's throw and strike invincible.

I really, REALLY hate Ibuki's neckbreaker. That move is just annoying when coupled with Ibuki's vortex.

Adon's standing roundhouse returning is good, I don't feel like they deserve to have it taken away. Helps add to his poking game.

KatzuyaSagara said on February 3, 2014 at 12:30 a.m.

I said "Year of The Claw" as symbolic...(I main Vega and is my fav character ever)

I was happy because his Scarlet Terror could be useful again, and not in certain Situations. And It was fair that only the EX version had the advantage. (If the normal version had it even I could say that is was way to broken)

Maybe they could fix the Cr. HP to make it better...I find it ironic that this normal has excellent range to make a descent AA but again...it's situational. (and more ironic that Sakura's Cr. HP has a hell of a Hitbox)

Also...the SUPER buff...why? Vega only use for the EX gauge is for the Sky High Claw mixups and Flying Barcelona Set ups...his SUPER is still to obnoxious to use.

Sorry if I sound like a Whiner bro...I just...have to accept this and train harder with the Claw...I guess

Have a great Monday =)

zombiebrian said on February 3, 2014 at 12:31 a.m.

That Makoto change was coming as soon as i saw it i thought "thats crazy".

Tbf capcom havent got a bad record when it comes to balance so imma wait it out there will always be tiers and with them tears. I think some of you would be happier if we didnt get the loc-tests that have gotten hopes up.

zombiebrian said on February 3, 2014 at 12:32 a.m.

Dont get me wrong vega totally needs buffs hes got some issues athough not as many as some *cough* Chun Li *Cough*

Sage_Liebert said on February 3, 2014 at 12:33 a.m.

Vega has been top tier in every game he has been in except for this one.

zombiebrian said on February 3, 2014 at 12:34 a.m.

you mean.... i bet the still complained lol

KatzuyaSagara said on February 3, 2014 at 12:37 a.m.

Well...to be Honest I never thought that Zeus would win a Major, and now he is my hero and Inspiration. He, Jozhear and Dr.Claw inspire me to be a better Vega, and I dream of having a match with them, as the Mexican Claw I am...

And like I said, people find easy to say "This character is too strong! I can't beat that! Nerf!" Instead of adapting.

And I agree...It's horrible to see a character you like is not getting a real buff, but a gimmick...is like giving you an Action Figure...with a new color.

Catalyst said on February 3, 2014 at 12:42 a.m.

Added notes about Dan's Back + HK being a nice buff for him. Apparently gives him new combos.

zombiebrian said on February 3, 2014 at 12:42 a.m.

try looking up emmersion hes a very good Dutch Vega http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5AIv7...

Kawalorn said on February 3, 2014 at 12:43 a.m.

Some changes reverted with Vega? You mean all the ones that actually made him better? Now we are left with useless gimmicks and un-comboable Ex-RCF. Gee thanks for consideration Capcom.

OTheVariousKing said on February 3, 2014 at 12:45 a.m.

How do you feel about the cl.HK change to 4+HK for Dan?

MEGAMFIBLM said on February 3, 2014 at 12:46 a.m.

But i don't like the fact that maybe they took away his build meter with taunts...

I don't care if Ken, or the other tops gets even more buff, but what i can't understand, what i can't tolerate is...

Why they hate Dan, Gief, Seth and Vega so much?

mvegetam said on February 3, 2014 at 12:47 a.m.

First adon's st.hk should stay a 1 hit..you can't focus the guy at all with his millions of way to break armor ! Reverting It back will give reason for people to complain about their characters important tools getting nerfed like bison's light scissor.

Rose isn't getting better if they ignored what people asked for and doing the opposite of what they asked for and actually making it worse..which is a better wakeup by making
ex spiral throwable(big mistake) and U2 having more recovery by 2 frames..

Yun needs projectile invincibility on mp or ex shoulder.. Now he can't even pass through juri's light fireball..now it only lowers his hurtbox to pass through ryu's hadoken

Catalyst said on February 3, 2014 at 12:47 a.m.

Added a couple more notes for Dan, saying his Light Dan Kicks buff was to help him hit smaller characters and that his U2 was GREATLY improved.

Catalyst said on February 3, 2014 at 12:52 a.m.

Not that I noticed it this heavily when I played the Capcom Cup build of USF4, but from what Capcom is saying, Rose is VERY good in USF4.

I thought she was better, but I heavily dislike the U2 change. The EX Soul Spiral change I can live with.

Apparently, her double ultra and U2/Red Focus setups are great in USF4, and that coupled with her damage bonuses are the reason for her adjustments in other areas.

These are just my impressions, BTW.

The only bit from Capcom is that her damage buffs are very good and that she's very strong now, the rest of this comment is my own thoughts.

Pinky said on February 3, 2014 at 12:54 a.m.

Thanks Catalyst for the Dan update. Always appreciated.

But why did they have to nerf Ultra 2's damage against air opponents... It's the slowest fireball Ultra in the game, having DOUBLE the startup of Ryu's Ultra 1, and is the ONLY Fireball Ultra that can be completely stuffed. There is also almost ZERO ways to juggle with this Ultra. You literally need to either DP FADC to it with 2 meters or have to combo it EXACTLY after you low danku off corner (Which is practically a 1 or 2 frame link depending on the character).

At least they are making the rest of him slightly better. Hopefully they'll reduce recovery on whiffed/blocked air danku and take the entire hurtbox off Dan's arm.

Catalyst said on February 3, 2014 at 12:58 a.m.

Added a note about Gouken. The guys just talked about his overall effectiveness, didn't reveal anything new, still thought it was interesting, so added it in.

Catalyst said on February 3, 2014 at 1:01 a.m.

I believe the nerf came from U2 hitting airborne opponents more now, so I imagine it was doing too much damage in the process.

From how Capcom made it sound, Dan's U2 got buffed A LOT, so I wouldn't worry, it should be a lot better in this version, assuming it stays how it is.

Catalyst said on February 3, 2014 at 1:07 a.m.

Added some notes about Seth.

Pinky said on February 3, 2014 at 1:08 a.m.

I guess your right. Thanks for the reassurance.

To be fair it is still too early and changes can happen at any time. Hopefully they'll continue addressing his and other low tier character's problems and fix them.

logitech2059 said on February 3, 2014 at 1:14 a.m.
(This comment was hidden because it was down voted. You can view it by clicking here.)
bagel_bytez said on February 3, 2014 at 1:22 a.m.

Please look for anything else dhalsim related. I was trying to rationalize with some of the changes but I found arts and champs opinions I'm a bit worries to say the least. Of course they may just be theory fightin, haven't heard of anyone good really testing sim at loc tests. Capcom does seam to have a really weird perspective on who gets balanced how and they seam to overlook a lot of characters who are known to be really weak. I'm not suggesting that I know more about the game than the developers but if sim is gettin a trade or worse for every buff I dunno how that's supposed to hold up to everyone else's changes.

Sim is widely regarded bottom 10 if not bottom 5

Keetro said on February 3, 2014 at 1:25 a.m.

did they even mention Guy

Zanomaru said on February 3, 2014 at 1:32 a.m.

I don't get all those "rip Yun". He is gonna be a real treat.

BigFleccs said on February 3, 2014 at 1:34 a.m.
(This comment was hidden because it was down voted. You can view it by clicking here.)
Catalyst said on February 3, 2014 at 1:42 a.m.

Added a note about Yang's cross up medium kick change in USF4, they say it's great in USF4, but not as good as it was in AE. It's a cross between AE and v2012.

Catalyst said on February 3, 2014 at 1:47 a.m.

OK, done cycling through the stream archive. That's everything guys.

ain said on February 3, 2014 at 1:48 a.m.

No mention about the Dhalsim nerfs?

Eternal said on February 3, 2014 at 1:49 a.m.

Cody knife attack changes cause air resets, he literally got the epitome of gimmicks. He can combo ONE knife attack in ONE situation at point blank only. Still didn't address the issues people requested.

Why would these changes be so bad?

Let Cody throw / tech throws without dropping knife
Let Cody CHARGE a focus but not release a focus attack without dropping knife
Let Cody special cancel his MP knife attacks.
Up chip damage on knife from 8% to 20%
Let him use F+MP with knife.

Remove the zonk/knife throw/knife juggles buffs to compensate.

Hell, in SFxT he has the special cancelable knife attacks and increase chip and it still barely sees use

Catalyst said on February 3, 2014 at 1:51 a.m.

I transcribed everything of note that I heard, I believe anyway. They discussed a few other characters, but it was mostly reading straight down the change list without anything else notable thrown in there.

I don't believe Dhalsim or Guy (someone else asked about him) was covered, though.

grahamwolfe said on February 3, 2014 at 2:13 a.m.

vega has only received nerfs for ultra, NO BUFFS. no one will use the super as 100 more damage for 3 more meters is not worth it. he lost one combo, the ex roll into crouching mp, he gained 2 more frames on crouching hp? if the hitboxes werent improved then its useless.

I really was hoping vega would be viable but rufus who does win tourneys gets major buffs instead...dunno what helps in the decision making process to keep good chars good and bad chars bad

Chi_Shinobi said on February 3, 2014 at 2:16 a.m.

They don't seem to know how to buff Vega. Nobodies gonna use that Super sunce he has no meterless combos. He needs RCF to be fast so he can combo from Cr Forward, Cr Strong, and St Fierce, Cr Strong. Scarlet Terror needs to go further on Startup so it can combo from those links. Ultra one doesn't need invincibility, It needs a bigger hitbox and better tracking so it won't miss. Ex ST needs the invincibility so he can atleast be able to try to get out of pressure.

Books said on February 3, 2014 at 2:26 a.m.

Thanks for the report, Catalyst. Overall, people need to understand that reading changes on paper doesn't translate to the gaming experience. For myself, I'm nervous about any nerfs to Yun, since he was in the top 10-15 area, or upper mid tier, and nerfing him is dangerous. That said, getting damage on one of his most used buttons plus the system changes might work for him more than we can tell,so we'll have to see.

Chi_Shinobi said on February 3, 2014 at 2:28 a.m.

I forgot about the Ex Roll nerf. Yep He lost Ex Roll into Cr Strong into Ex FBA, and He lost Ex Roll into St Hk. All for a super he won't have meter to use.

sergio_reyes_ said on February 3, 2014 at 2:33 a.m.

capcom really have to give many DEMOS ULTRA STREET FIGHTER 4 for xbox 360 and playstation capcom need to give manny people DOWNLOAD DEMOS IN XBOX LIVE AND PLAYSTATION NETWROK with all the characters in one round 1 stage training room download demo xbox 360 playstation 3 this is to give pure opinion for capcom IS MY OPINION SERYUSLY capcom needs many people's opinions .

EstOct101990 said on February 3, 2014 at 2:59 a.m.

NECKBREAKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) hopefully it stays.

holybird90 said on February 3, 2014 at 3:01 a.m.

Rose as a "huge contender".... LOL

Snow2Drop said on February 3, 2014 at 3:03 a.m.

Please, how long will it take for Vega to fill up the Super bar in a real match, it is not practical at all. Well, since Capcom hate Vega it can't be helped

Smorgasboard said on February 3, 2014 at 3:04 a.m.

I suspect there is a really good Vega player in the internal testing team that just keeps on beating everyone. Lol. The best Vega player the world would never know.

grahamwolfe said on February 3, 2014 at 3:06 a.m.

also keep in mind super did 400 in the current game, they are nerfing its damage to 300

Kirin said on February 3, 2014 at 3:07 a.m.

What are considered as "more controversial changes" could be the best changes.

caruga said on February 3, 2014 at 3:10 a.m.

Awesome news on Neckbreaker; with the changes to hard knockdown it means going from one auto-pilot guess to another auto-pilot guess. </sarcasm>

Jesus, I don't care about Yun's damage output, leave him alone. HE IS NOT BROKEN DON'T FIX HIM. You had it perfect in AE 2012.

Gouken will probably have the respect of certain rushdown characters now. I think they should consider lowering the damage on ex tatsu to 150 though if its utility is broadened that much, and perhaps raise the damage on the heavy kick one.

I wish they just extended the hurtbox on every divekick in the game so that well-placed anti-air normals always work; Cammy's ex dive is so dumb (including in ultra as far as I know) that I hate it myself even though I use her.

SonicfanQ said on February 3, 2014 at 3:17 a.m.

while you guys are all complaining remember this... NOTHING IS FINAL YET! USF4 is STILL in TESTING! So vega might get some more changes along with other characters. Its not over complain when things are set in stone!

Spabobin said on February 3, 2014 at 3:28 a.m.

You can't really OS a delayed wakeup, it's not something punishable like a backdash. Maybe go for a meaty or high/low if they delay, but this is Super Reversal Fighter 4 we're talking about.

In fact, as it stands Ibuki can be punished with a full combo if you throw a kunai and guess incorrectly on the delay. If you throw it too early, she gets punished during landing recovery. If you incorrectly predict a delayed wakeup and throw it late, most if not all characters can still punish (a kunai is usually only safe if blocked meaty). Since throwing a kunai is so risky in USF4, her oki game will rely a lot more on normal crossups, as well as grounded mixups which are less safe and effective than her current vortex. Overall, this change will weed out a lot of the super-scrub Ibukis that only know one setup and brainlessly beat on low-level players.

Getting punished on HIT after neckbreaker was ridiculous as s***, she couldn't even apply any kind of pressure after using it which made the move completely useless.

SgtKonus said on February 3, 2014 at 3:31 a.m.

Soft Knockdown on Neckbreaker made the move laughably useless. There have been instances where Ryu, Chun-Li and other characters with 0 frame Supers can punish her before she recovers.

soggytoast said on February 3, 2014 at 3:39 a.m.

I'm seriously worried about this game now. They seem to have no idea what they are doing. Handing buffs out like candy to the top tiers, reverting nerfs when people complain, and reverting buffs to low tiers with little justification.

When Yun and Seth and Adon are laughably overpowered they are just going to shrug and say whoopsie we didn't know.

lahadima01 said on February 3, 2014 at 4:12 a.m.

Precisely. I´m a member of the Fellowship of the Thigh (group of Chun Li fans) and our general opinion is that we are very dissatisfied with the current depth of her changes.

The removal of the faster jump is something that we find specially difficult to justify, not to mention that there has been no statement regarding a fix to her U1, so it finally can juggle the whole cast in the corner.

While some characters have gotten a myriad of pretty useful improvements, it´s my humble opinion that Chun´s buffs, per se, are only minor in comparison.

Nevertheless, I solidarize with our bottom tier companion Claw. He certainly is in pitiful situation.

Kelshou said on February 3, 2014 at 4:13 a.m.

Yeah a lot of strange decisions from Capcom/Combofiend. Buffing characters like Viper...'nerfing' characters like Vega...smh

Ryunipotent said on February 3, 2014 at 4:31 a.m.

(This user was banned.)

Mincereth said on February 3, 2014 at 4:40 a.m.

I made an account just to post that El Fuerte needs his st. LK to be cancelable again. Please make this happen. For some reason they believe El Fuerte to be a threat and had to take away from his already horrible normals.

Vothsair said on February 3, 2014 at 4:45 a.m.

Capcom seems so fixed on nerfing Yun for the lamest reason. They said he never has to block with an unsafe DP. WTF. And now they're saying 10 damage on S.MP and C.MP is huge damage buff? Do they realize off a poke you will only be getting 8 damage more? He's going to lose more damage due to the command grab nerf. Like did they buff any other move besides MP?

Calcifer said on February 3, 2014 at 4:47 a.m.

They can't be serious about Yun being a "huge contender", seriously what is this bullsht? You nerf his tools and think +28~ damage per b&b combo he gets to pull of twice in a match is going to make him overpowered? He was already a joke in 2012 edition, after they nerf him further he's going to be a huge contender now? Huge contender to lowest tier.

Haamiz said on February 3, 2014 at 5:01 a.m.

If they make his hp shoryuken fadc able, his damage output will go sky high. Like in sf4 vanilla

ProfessorLester said on February 3, 2014 at 5:04 a.m.


Emesots said on February 3, 2014 at 5:05 a.m.

RIP Bison :v

RagerDaPrince_EH said on February 3, 2014 at 5:06 a.m.

Dee jay is all I gotta say HEY! HEY!

BlackOnyxThunder said on February 3, 2014 at 5:07 a.m.

I actually like the idea of a crumple state on level 1 ex red focus. Capcom did say they wanted red focus to be used more offensively, so adding this crumple state to level 1 ex red focus is a great idea for players to "grab a hold of" and utilize.

Remondo02 said on February 3, 2014 at 5:08 a.m.

(This user was banned.)

Haamiz said on February 3, 2014 at 5:12 a.m.

I agree, with 3 bars being used up its worth it.

solzan2000 said on February 3, 2014 at 5:15 a.m.

Kinda saw Ibuki's NB going back to normal, and am glad it happened, did'nt make sense being soft knockdown and you have delayed wakeup aswell. Now if they make her walkspeed slightly faster am happy, still feels kinda off to me.

EMP_BrokeTier_Triforce said on February 3, 2014 at 5:22 a.m.

I main Yun. It really tells you something when Kaiser AND Kazunoko switch to Yang.

The Soaring White Dragon is dead.

Remondo02 said on February 3, 2014 at 5:30 a.m.

(This user was banned.)

xShonuffx said on February 3, 2014 at 5:34 a.m.

Dear pro players...

Use Chun Li more.


A Midwest Player

Sasuga said on February 3, 2014 at 5:40 a.m.

"We've been working a lot, especially on the four new characters"

Well good. Let's pretend there never was gonna be five.

samuraix025 said on February 3, 2014 at 5:58 a.m.

I love the red focus lvl one crumple now 0 + 1 grab ultras won't be as BS.

Guy target combo Ex red crumple U2

makes U2 possibly guys main ultra now?

I can't wait to hit training mode in ultra

mcmike913 said on February 3, 2014 at 6:06 a.m.


bobalu2 said on February 3, 2014 at 6:11 a.m.

This is GARBAGE, fix claw! If he can't have a METER BURN for a real reversal, or that extra frame of hitstun so his links can actually be reliable. I'm dropping this game! I've played claw since vanilla, and he's needed more tools the ENTIRE TIME, and you literally NERF HIM? Wasn't capcom saying they wanted everyone to be a threat in this version, through buffs was how they intended on this coming true? So a character that has won 1 freaking major with one of the best in the country using him, he's balanced now?! Seriously he needs something! give him an anti air normal similar to 2012 Guy's cr Mp. What is he supposed to do with divekick pressure??!!
Everyone is agreeing making super comboable(and nerfing damage at the same time) is retarded! Vega is a VERY meter DEPENDANT character. All BnBs need it, all projectile punishment NEEDS IT, THE REVERSAL WE WERE TEASED WITH NEEDED METER, it's not like he builds it for free! I will seriously not get this garbage without real buffs!

cris25 said on February 3, 2014 at 6:12 a.m.

EX Scarlet Terror, +1 on cr.lp = yay! Finally some recognition, that's what we needed!

Oh no, it works now. Let's take it off. But let's not leave him where he was. While we're at it, take away his 1f link after EX roll, and take 100 damage off his super. That will teach him not to complain about tiers.


keroberus2 said on February 3, 2014 at 6:28 a.m.

He could do with his reversal back but he doesn't need extra cr.lp frame advantage. Good vegas hit his BnBs all the time anyway- just practise that stuff.

So happy about the Dan b.HK buff. Another viable anti air :)

keroberus2 said on February 3, 2014 at 6:35 a.m.

Because a tiny bit of damage on Yun and the reversion of a two hit HK make Yun and Adon laughably overpowered. lol. Check out the swarm of Yuns and Adons we won't be having

YMB9Shinzou said on February 3, 2014 at 6:46 a.m.

I'm a Vega player and while I agree he has faults I don't think he's a weak character. I think Capcom have to be careful in balancing him because his base moves are so good. Just from his frame data he seems like his concept has had to be nerfed... I mean the more about pokes this game becomes the stronger he'll become.

Having said that I think taking the lp hitstun away from him was poor, even just on the basis that the netcode isn't good enough to be that demanding on such a principal link.

I would surely like to see some more buffs before Ultra comes out but while an invincible ST would really blow up people who just random jump/dive kick in if you give him that and a ranged AA and an air grab someone like 'gief is screwed. I mean what can you give Vega that would make Rufus a 5-5 without making 'gief an 8-2?

I think then that Capcom should try to keep his weakness intact but make him better at what he does best.

OhYouDontSayThat said on February 3, 2014 at 6:48 a.m.

getting excited in a non-pg13 way!!!

Lockm said on February 3, 2014 at 6:57 a.m.

How is it a very nice buff :/ It's completely useless because the knife itself is still useless and Cody doesn't get any real offense from a air reset, except meaty pressure...

Cody has only gotten gimmicky buffs, except for ex criminal upper which is still not good. It being not throw invincible and not being completely strike invincible all the way through to its active frames. And it being slow and easily baited by a crossup and neutral jump(same for EX Zonk)

Yun is a "huge contender", who are they kidding, does Combofiend honestly think the measily etra 10 dmg on his cr.mp and st.mp will compensate for his command grab and hk dpo nerf, i think not.There will only be 10 damage more per combo on average. Alot of scaling when doing a combo after his command grab now, meaning his combo cr.mp, st.mp xx hk dp will do less damage in USFIV than it does in SSFIVAE2012, haha. Nobody asked for Yun nerfs, at all.

They should make mk fully strike invincible and make it hit crouchers, or make lk dp hit crouchers. This way their reasoning for removing Yun his invincibiliy is gone,which was that is "too difficult too punish", boo hoo.

Also why f*ck over Vega, makign people excited and removing it near the end, pathetic.

BlackOnyxThunder said on February 3, 2014 at 6:58 a.m.

Oh you don't say that! :P

TaurusMAGNUS said on February 3, 2014 at 6:58 a.m.

I wish they gave Yang more damage on his "combo buttons".

cris25 said on February 3, 2014 at 7:02 a.m.

Funny how "NOBODY" complained how strong Oni and Ken turned out, right Combofiend?

WlZD0M said on February 3, 2014 at 7:02 a.m.

...so basically Vega's right back were he started from (zero wake up options/super weak AA game/harder inputs for combos than most) with a couple of new combos off the (now linkable) super...that got nerf from 100,100,200 to 100,100,100 and he'll have an easier time linking into his ultras given the EX red focus cancel...which isn't saying much seeing as EVERYBODY gained that ability.

You guys dropped the hitstun on his EX roll from 4 frames to 3 making the cr. mp,EX walldive that much harder to link leaving Vega basically with "all or nothing big damage combos that drain a full super bar and leave him with little to no options afterwords...smh.

Load more comments

Post a comment

You're not logged in, you must Login to your account to post a comment.

If you do not have an account, you need to Register to comment. It's a free and quick process.

You're not logged in, you must Login to your account to post a comment.

If you do not have an account, you need to Register to comment. It's a free and quick process.