A comeback on Ricky Ortiz, crazy mixups, and more perfects than Vega should ever be able to get: Check out Zeus' Vega in SSF4 AE v2012

Posted by Steven 'Dreamking23' Chavez • April 22, 2014 at 4:32 p.m. PDT

DeBeast has sent us one of his most recent Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition v2012 highlight reels.

Today, we take a look at an exceptional player who uses a character very rarely seen in tournament play. PIE|Zeus is definitely one of, if not, the best Vega player competing right now.

In this video we get to see numerous clips of him tearing through opponents at various major events. Although Vega's play-style is heavily footsie based, Zeus is able to smother his opponents, granting him sick comebacks, multiple stuns, and more perfects than Vega should ever be able to get, (given his character archetype).

Hit the jump to check out PIE|Zeus' lethal Vega.

Artwork via DADAIST-Gabriel. Tip sent in by nocturnal.


Why_capcom_why said on April 22, 2014 at 4:40 p.m.

Then the reality: Vega is still the worst character in game and the only one that don't received any desent buff since vainilla =/
Nice try to make us believe he will be not bad ;)

zeuvs3 said on April 22, 2014 at 4:41 p.m.

what a vega:)

joeraine said on April 22, 2014 at 4:45 p.m.

funny how you had to name drop a top player to advertise someone else

RandomSelectMaster said on April 22, 2014 at 4:48 p.m.

YaaahhhhhhhhhhhHHHHH SSSSSSSS! Makes me want to play Vega.

BrokenPad said on April 22, 2014 at 4:54 p.m.

Pretty sure anyone would like to see a comeback on ricky (or any top player) with a character like vega.

HerpOfJack said on April 22, 2014 at 4:54 p.m.

Vega is low/mid tier. Definitely not the worst character in the game.

Dan, Dee Jay, T. Hawk, Chun Li, and Blanka are way worse.

jimbo1123 said on April 22, 2014 at 4:57 p.m.

I always consider picking up Vega but all of my mains already suffer from bad wakeup and difficult combos. I should just play a scumbag shoto

TheTHCGamer said on April 22, 2014 at 4:58 p.m.

This. It's kinda a big deal to get a comeback on Ricky especially with Vega. Zeus's vega is beast.

babineaux said on April 22, 2014 at 5:09 p.m.

Definitely not the worst, but I agree that they've been skimpy with the buffs. Supposedly the cr FP buff is better than some are giving it credit for in ultra. We shall see.

Green016 said on April 22, 2014 at 5:27 p.m.

Claw the worst character in the game? Dude, you're 100% clueless if you really think that. Zeus is the best Claw in the US imo and deserves more attention.

ednd30 said on April 22, 2014 at 5:36 p.m.

as a decades long vega player nice to see him played excellently

ChoseDeath said on April 22, 2014 at 5:44 p.m.

Really, this video is pure magnificence.

Sadisticcupid said on April 22, 2014 at 5:44 p.m.

except he's not, you just need to put in work with him lol

Why_capcom_why said on April 22, 2014 at 5:50 p.m.

I would like comments of real claw players =/
I read a commnet here: Chun-li is worst than Vega O_o
Anyways, when you play with him, you will understand why all pro players considered him the worst or one of worst characters in this game.

msdrakegx said on April 22, 2014 at 6:04 p.m.

I don't know if I'd say Chun Li and Blanka are way worse. Dan, Deejay and T. Hawk are all terrible characters that are obviously worse than Vega but that isn't saying much

Skaz9000 said on April 22, 2014 at 6:05 p.m.

I'm sad that Vega gets so little love ... or attention of any sort, good or bad. I don't have a good feeling about what USF4 is going to do to him; Leave him behind (further) in the dust is my guess.

Chi_Shinobi said on April 22, 2014 at 6:09 p.m.

He's not the worst character, but his specials are poorly designed. Rcf and Scarlet Terror barely combo from anything and don't at all from Cr Mk into Cr Mp. Neither from St Hp into Cr Mp. St Lk into Cr Mp xx Rcf doesn't work either. You can only use Ex FBA from most his hit confirms, so It makes his Super buff pointless. Now if they made Scarlet Terror go farther on startup so it can combo he'd be alot more viable. He'd have some decent meterless damage and be able to save up for the Super.

DrDevice said on April 22, 2014 at 6:17 p.m.

Damn that air grab on the crumpled Rufus was too sick. Tons of respect for this guy.

Gangsta_Str8 said on April 22, 2014 at 6:43 p.m.

i think i creamed myself watching this video... i as a vega player cannot express any more how much this makes me happy to watch vega needs and deserves recognition for the simple fact that he has been a classic street fighter and i believe capcom needs to give him more options but regardless of that zeus get my total respect for being a vega player and also for winning i salute you for all the vega players this should be motivation to continue to play vega and not drop him because of his lack in the tier .....

ArturoA9790 said on April 22, 2014 at 6:43 p.m.

I wonder if Zeus got his name cuz he kinda looks like Tiny "Zeus" from the Friday movies.

Frankiiee said on April 22, 2014 at 6:43 p.m.

every vega player will tell you that hes top 5 worst in the game no doubt and his ultra buffs do absolutely nothing for him in a game where 90% of the cast are getting viable buffs hes going to be absolute ass tier

aoi said on April 22, 2014 at 7:03 p.m.

I root for any Vega!!!

mtron32 said on April 22, 2014 at 7:07 p.m.

@Why_capcom_why: The two buffs that were in the first few iterations (2 frame cr. jab and iFrames on EX ST) were negligible for claw players that know how to use claw. I can already hit my jabs over 90 percent so that's not doing too much to change my style of play, and the EX ST is a waste of meter just seeing as how its not FADCable. These are buffs I'd slide under the "it'd be nice if" pile, great for beginners, passé for experienced players.

The cr fierce was a move that NEEDED to be buffed since it's the strong ground based AA that's needed in footsies. While the added active frames are nice, the hit/hurtboxes are still the same, time will tell just how useful it'll be. If it's as good as the exhibition at SCR, then I'm very excited Ultra.

In my opinion, Vega is a very strong character that plays unlike any other fighter in the cast, he has insane walk speed, great footsies, the scary kara grab, and added damage possibilities with Red focus. Put me in a room with a bunch of skilled SF4 players and I'll probably beat most of the people there regardless of who they play. I base this solely on my fighting game fundamentals learned by playing Claw since SF4 launch, when he was ACTUALLY a bad, unfinished character.

Also, I really don't want to see a bunch bandwagon Vega's like I do with so many of the "Cammy fans" out there abusing the buffs while flowcharting from fight to fight with no method or skill.

GodPride said on April 22, 2014 at 7:14 p.m.

Zeus' execution is pretty godlike for someone who plays on a 360 pad. Sometimes, I wonder how he does it. I tried to play Vega on the 360 and I couldn't even get the dame pretzel motion U1 to come on that garbage d-pad.

Gangsta_Str8 said on April 22, 2014 at 7:17 p.m.

i have to agree 100% with you bro real vega players don't really need any of those buffs if you know how to play him but of course if there are players that are beginners they would love that buff which i don't see happening and maybe because of zeus there will be bandwagons so be prepared...

cris25 said on April 22, 2014 at 7:50 p.m.

It's Zeus' fault that Vega didn't get invincibility frames on ST.
Goddamn u Zeus!

GodPride said on April 22, 2014 at 8 p.m.

Zeus got 7-0ed by Gamerbee at the Winter Brawl exhibition. That's probably enough to deter anyone from jumping on the Vega bandwagon. Vega's reserved for the masochists who stuck with him since Vanilla where he was absolute trash.

9DeadlySinns said on April 22, 2014 at 8:02 p.m.

That comeback was sick!

Smorgasboard said on April 22, 2014 at 8:08 p.m.

When winning tournaments is no longer good enough. Now you have to be top tier before anyone thinks a character doesn't need any buff. I guess it's not Ryu but Cammy and Fei Long that are balanced.

Gangsta_Str8 said on April 22, 2014 at 8:09 p.m.

i agree if you wanna go that far ive been playing him since vanilla as well or even before that when he first came out on street fighter 2 ive been a vega player and still am .... vega will always be my favorite character ..

Kenmasters101 said on April 22, 2014 at 8:17 p.m.

I'm sorry why do people think DJ is bad, I lose to him all the time....anyway lol at the title more perfects than vega should ever get

bawitback said on April 22, 2014 at 8:25 p.m.

I completely disagree with the title "more perfects than Vega should ever be able to get" the problem is NO ONE PUT IN THE EFFORT TO PLAY VEGA in the FGC "SOLIDLY" like Zeus did. The rest play him recklessly/online-warrior style example: Joezhear.

Capcom_Warrior said on April 22, 2014 at 8:34 p.m.

How can you even say that about Joezhear? Did you watch Canda Cup when the played the original AE? Sick video by the way.

Gangsta_Str8 said on April 22, 2014 at 8:38 p.m.

lmao i cant believe you still play fighting games after the beating i gave you smh

mtron32 said on April 22, 2014 at 8:43 p.m.

@bawitback: Jozhear, Chris King and Zeus are three very different Claw players, Zeus is just the last one to the party so he had the benefit of all this discovered knowledge, compiled with his deadly sharp fundamental game. You're right that Vega is not a very easy character to pick up, lots of one frame links and tight footsies. I personally enjoy the hell out of his fighting style but he's certainly an acquired taste.

Why_capcom_why said on April 22, 2014 at 8:46 p.m.

If you want to learn why pro Vega players think of Ultra read this:

JustSTFU said on April 22, 2014 at 8:53 p.m.

@1 and the rest of "Vega is low tier" whiners, I dunno why but there are so many of u little bitches on this site ever since day one I joined here. Over the years all u guys do is just complain like bitch even when fact is thrown right in your face.

Here's already proof of concept of how to play Vega correctly, with all these 100% perfect come back examples showing Vega can start from this with any of his little pokes that he does anyways, and finish the round.

So instead of acknowledging it and learn, you still complain "buff Vega he's the worst character". No he's not the worst character or low tier as proven in this video how easily Vega can win by just pushing jabs all day like a little bitch. So maybe u should be like your character and play like a proper little bitch then u can win.

Edit: ok sorry #1 this anger is too much for what u just said, but it's meant for the real Vega bitchers that I see all the time I forgot who they are.

mtron32 said on April 22, 2014 at 8:59 p.m.


That entire comment section is filled with reactionary players popping off before the game comes out. The truth is that while he didn't get any OMG buffs, he got a few buffs and zero nerfs, that with the changes to the engine are going to leave claw in the middle where he's been sitting for the last 2-3 years.

JustSTFU said on April 22, 2014 at 8:59 p.m.

I also want to say #37 is ment for anyone who complains about their character is low tier or not good enough because u can't win. This is why u r gutter trash.

Capcom_Warrior said on April 22, 2014 at 9:18 p.m.

Why would I stop playing fighting games over a loss? Especially to an internet tough guy like yourself. You think you're a lot better than you really are. You gave yourself a skill level of 10 in all your games. Really? Lol.

Plus the last time we played was in SFXT in a first to five. Jin/Kazuya vs Rolento/Vega. You won 5-3. That's hardly a beating. Especially because the last two came down to the wire. I think I do remember a perfect in there though. Lol.

Once you graduate from high school (if you even can) you'll realize how much of an a$$ you are. Grow up.

Why_capcom_why said on April 22, 2014 at 9:22 p.m.

There are comments from Haztlan (He did a well-known tutorial of vega), Nocturnal, Snow2Drop (Best vega in pc) and others, talking about how angry they are. That is for a reason ...
And btw, they can't nerf more him obviously, they can't nerf more things that are crap how it are.

Capcom_Warrior said on April 22, 2014 at 9:23 p.m.

Vega can be a strong character in the right hands but winning with him consistantly is very hard. Most of the people in this video are not tournament wining players with the exception of Ricky. Anytime Zeus goes against the real heavy hitters he loses. Vega is low tier and if you're getting beat by Vega then the other player is usually just a better player.

Gangsta_Str8 said on April 22, 2014 at 9:31 p.m.
(This comment was hidden because it was down voted. You can view it by clicking here.)
mtron32 said on April 22, 2014 at 9:34 p.m.


They have every right to complain, but it's not like he's in terrible shape as evidenced by this video. Giving Vega an invincible ST changes his game and makes him too hard to approach, I could strap on my turtle shell and never have to move. Juxtapose that against his pokes and walk speed and you have a stupid character. If people are jumping in on you with no regard, that means that your footsie game is sloppy.

Capcom_Warrior said on April 22, 2014 at 9:43 p.m.

Good luck graduating. You have so much salt. It's kinda funny. I'm not really sure who you're refering to but I don't cry about anything. If you wanna talk about how people view me then let's talk about how people view you. You know how many conversations I've had about you? All the people you claim to be your friends hate playing with you because of all the negativity you bring into the rooms.

Plus, I know you're still in high school. Multiple people have told me. :-P

Why_capcom_why said on April 22, 2014 at 9:46 p.m.

And btw on the video the most of people he fought are his friends from team spooky ....

Gangsta_Str8 said on April 22, 2014 at 9:54 p.m.

your just proving my point even more the fact that you gotta sit there and have convos about me to other people shows how pathetic you are i can count on my fingers the only legit friends i have on there and they themselves dont like you or even want you around them so for you to claim the friends i so called have sit there and talk s*** about me you dont know s*** as a matter of fact all the people you associate with they are probably my victims just like you none of them know s*** about me and i laugh because you cheerleaders sit there like a bunch of girls a gossip about the almighty gangsta str8 LMAOOO i cant believe you said you talk about me to other people.. i cant wait to come back so i can get a good laugh at how pathetic you sound thank god you didnt give out names because then you wouldve exposed all of those lame ass scrubs you associate yourself with smh

mtron32 said on April 22, 2014 at 9:55 p.m.


Before Kbrad busted out, he fought those same people and won consistently. The more dude travels, the better he'll get at handling the heavies, his fundamental game is sound and his Vega play continues to improve.

GodPride said on April 22, 2014 at 10:19 p.m.

I agree that Vega doesn't need the ST buff, but your line of reasoning would put you at odds with wanting hitbox adjustments to his Cr.HP so that it's a solid anti air.

mtron32 said on April 22, 2014 at 10:35 p.m.

I didn't say I wanted it, simply stating the parameters of the move. If it were as nasty as Sakura's cr. fierce, Vega would be a wall with a mask and claw.

SixFingerKiller said on April 22, 2014 at 10:36 p.m.


Snow2Drop said on April 22, 2014 at 10:40 p.m.

Nah I am far from the best Vega from PC.

But well, I will accept that the additional frame on cr.hp is somewhat a legit anti air, now if only they would give back the damage on his super (come on it is rarely used, and when it is used it doesn't even hit for 80% of the time).

Also, if they gave him a way to get out of pressure. Once Vega get knock-downed or cornered it is free pressure, but maybe we will see if red focus help

mtron32 said on April 22, 2014 at 10:49 p.m.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the damage nerf on super, perhaps since we can hit confirm into it they had to reduce it's bite. It's so rarely used now because Vega's BnB requires it and it's pretty impractical outside of gimmicks.

Snow2Drop said on April 22, 2014 at 10:54 p.m.

Yep, the EX.FBA is too valuable to pass up.

The one change I would really like to see though, is making EX.sky high claw less punishable because currently so many character can use ultra to punish it on block.

Though I am also looking forward as to knowing whether it is easier to combo Splendid claw from cosmic heel due to faster start-up, that might be an important tool for Vega in Ultra

Yung said on April 22, 2014 at 11 p.m.

Zeus is part of the chain that doesn't let me drop Vega.

GodPride said on April 22, 2014 at 11:21 p.m.

Vega's NJ.HK already makes him a wall.

FADCTAUNT said on April 23, 2014 at 1 a.m.

(This user was banned.)

mtron32 said on April 23, 2014 at 1:24 a.m.

Funny you should say this, it's often my goal to make matches against certain players as boring as possible so they get annoyed and make more frequent mistakes.

TaokakaBOOM said on April 23, 2014 at 2:01 a.m.

@43 Yeesh, ever heard of periods? Other than the one you're obviously on?

JIHADJOE said on April 23, 2014 at 2:47 a.m.

Infiltration got 10-0'd by Daigo at the Madcatz exhibition. That should be enough to deter anyone from jumping on the Gouki bandwagon.

IkI said on April 23, 2014 at 4:46 a.m.

Vega is a good character, people who say is one of the worst doesn't know what they are talking about. For me, he has the best zoning tools, safe chip damages (RC), combo with good damage output, safe jump, double hit move, kara throw, unsafe moves hard to punish, espace options (flip, double flip, backdash...seriously, how do you OS all that stuff... )
Of course he doesnn't have reversal, he will be top tier yet. And I think his EX Scarlet Terror is underated.

Snow2Drop said on April 23, 2014 at 6:07 a.m.

Nah he is one of the worst character in the game. I might not be a pro but I do feel that my Vega is above average so that is my basis.

He is too vulnerable to pressure, and almost all of his normal move loses when traded. His double flip is also almost useless unless the opponent is a grappler, and to stop him from doing anything at okizeme (unless he have a ultra 2), just cr.lp/lk to whatever OS you want if he focus backdash

Well, a fun point about Vega is that when your Scarlet terror get blocked your opponent doesn't properly punish it because of the timing Vega land

Gangsta_Str8 said on April 23, 2014 at 7 a.m.

go to sleep lol

pandaman64 said on April 23, 2014 at 7:01 a.m.

It was 10-2. And there's plenty of existing footage that shows him beating daigo.

Not trying to be 'that guy'. Just saying. Not a fair comparison.

Necreon said on April 23, 2014 at 7:09 a.m.

I play Vega for 5 years now (since vanilla relase), and honestly, this isn't anything exceptional. Standard mixups and really bad reactions from opponents who were sitting and trying to defend, instead of just doing anything with invincible frames and FADC from that, something Vega has nothing against. The amount of unsafe jumpins and such things in this video is ridicolously high, but one thing that's even more sad than calling that great, is how nobody used an antiair against it.

pandaman64 said on April 23, 2014 at 7:10 a.m.

It's hard to be a vega main going into Ultra. On the one hand, this is the third round of buffs where we essentially see vega unchanged. This is mostly a good thing, but when you look around and see all the shiny new toys other characters are getting, it's very daunting.

I think he'll be good, if for no other reason than delayed wakeup and red focus are amazing for him, and make the game center more around what he's already amazing at. I just wish he got some cool new stuff.

HerpOfJack said on April 23, 2014 at 7:15 a.m.

Vega players are just mad because he won't be top tier like he was supposed to be.

djm0001 said on April 23, 2014 at 7:29 a.m.

Vega will be a lot better in USF4, regardless of the nerfs/buffs he received. It's becoming a more footsie based game, and Vega has really good pokes. I think he could have used another minor buff, but he'll still be strong. Delayed wakeup helps him a lot too.

Blancs said on April 23, 2014 at 8:18 a.m.

As a long time Vega player, it's been a long time coming to finally see someone step up and play him at this high of a level. If you've ever tried to play Vega, you know how hard it is to play an effective rush down style with any success. Capcom has done NOTHING to help one of their original 12 characters over the years, so it's cool to see someone do something with all of his disadvantages. Top tier character players could learn something from this. How he bodied K-Brad was so good to see. Cammy's are garbage anyways.

Tsori said on April 23, 2014 at 8:39 a.m.

As much as I am looking forward to ULTRA, it's stuff like this that McKee me wish they would just give this game more time to breathe :(.

Why_capcom_why said on April 23, 2014 at 10:02 a.m.

Bro, you never played with Vega against good players. Ypu are totally wrong.

Why_capcom_why said on April 23, 2014 at 10:20 a.m.

You are totally wrong. 1st to all, you never played with him, so you don't know if he need buffs or not.
In 2nd place, not only vega players know he need at least 1 o 2 decent buffs, all street fighter players know it. A Vega player really don't matter if he became top tier or not, we are playing with him knowing he is the worst and knowing we will lose lots of matchs because his bad design, not because our mistakes. That is frustrating.

USAgent said on April 23, 2014 at 10:48 a.m.

So much truth in this. Vega needs so much more in his arsenal yet he constantly gets overshadowed. I feel the characters that get BTFO in tournaments or are never in the tourney-scene are the ones that really need to be examined by Capcom so that every character can be capable of bringing something to the table.

How in the hell did Rose a perfect upgrade in all the areas where she had trouble (damage output primarily) yet Vega is left in la-la land?

IkI said on April 23, 2014 at 10:57 a.m.

@Why_capcom_why and @Snow2Drop
Well, I overeacted with my first sentence.
Indeed I don't play him but I fight against good Vega who frustrate me with their style : hit and run. It's hard to get close, and I got trade too often with their low mp (I play Bison and Balrog btw).
Yes in ultra his buffs are poor, he will keep his playstyle. Apparently USF4 is more defensive than offensive, which is good for him, and at least he didn't get nerf.
Random "reversal" are the key in corner to get away, or to die quickly...

mtron32 said on April 23, 2014 at 11:40 a.m.

No, you lose bad matches because of your mistakes. You know Vega doesn't have a get off me move so why aren't you playing the absolute safest game possible? The two buffs they took away weren't going to magically increase your chances if your fundamentals aren't there and keep getting rushed down.

The best skill a Vega player can develop is defense since we have no iFrame move we often have to block. Can you block, tech throws and escape without losing your nerve while being frame traped to death? I stopped auto crouch teching and it's cleaned my defense up a great deal, you can pretty much guess when a throw is coming and if you don't, 110 damage isn't a big deal compared to the 300 you would be eating from a counterhit.

Why_capcom_why said on April 23, 2014 at 12:19 p.m.

Go to tell that at Zeus when he lost playing amazing well 7 to 0 against Gamerbee ....

mtron32 said on April 23, 2014 at 12:31 p.m.

My statement still stands, it was a lack of matchup knowledge where he didn't know what to do when GB came at him from the air, which is a problem with the fighter, not the character. If he had iFrames on ST, he'd be down a meter and GB would be right back on him, he needed to reconfigure his footsie game to deal with that issue.

metaf4 said on April 23, 2014 at 2:03 p.m.

People....Tier lists should be based on move-sets, damage outputs, hit stun properties, Health stats and actual Stun output. Not based on how a character is used by a human being or on Tournament results. If for the next 2 years Everybody Boycotts Decapre and assumes she's A$$ or just hatred for her based on the fact that she is a Cammy Clone...whatever, lets just say that nobody worthwhile in the Tournament community is winning any significant matches with her...does that mean she deserves to be low on the Tier List? This is wack! so before Zeus only one other dude used Vega in Tournaments that people even remotely respected...and even then he never made a mark that people even paid attention to Vega. (Y'all should know who I'm talking about...if you don't? Then you will further prove to me that Tournament biased Tier lists are only now based on matches that are shown on stream or uploaded on YouTube.)So NOW Vega's a problem? Hate to burst your hatred bubble, but he's getting "buffed" in Ultra...so now what?

Before Evil Ryu just recently won a major..(Again..I'm not going to re-educate people on recent stuff in the fighting community..go and research this stuff yourself and understand my points on your own...don't take my word for it.) NOBODY was giving Evil Ryu a lick of respect on the Tier List..go check for yourself...DON'T TROLL THE FACTS! Every damn time it's either Fei Long, Cammy, Akuma, Seth etc, and pretty much all based on the Tournament results that have been accumulated year after year. Outside of Daigo (mostly because he's the only dude who gets consistent results with that character in tournaments..sorry Alex V....its just fact)

I think every character in the right hands can be a beast! Smug and Zeus already can prove my point on this. It's the amount of work that is needed to be put into a character that should determine a Tier.

Every time we see new tech or high level play on Event Hubs there's always a bunch of dudes in the forums complaining about "OP" or "Broken" or "He needs to get nurfed" But they themselves probably couldn't pull the shown tech off 3 times on a standing still training dummy in Training mode! Phulease people...just respect and give props to the player using the character, don't suck the d!ck or hate on the character in the game.

Look, There's a million Ryu players online...only ONE wins tournaments consistently. It's not a tier list thing...its a skillset knowing matchups and dedication to his character of choice that sets him apart. Prove me wrong..You try picking C.Viper and fight an online 3000PP Dee Jay and see what happens to you.

Please don't take my word for it: http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/...

Gangsta_Str8 said on April 23, 2014 at 4:15 p.m.

look vega does need things but im not gonna complain because i have a very solid vega and i dont have much trouble fighting against high level players but if he happens to get a good buff so be it all ima say is this.... for my enemies online R.I.P lmaooo

Why_capcom_why said on April 23, 2014 at 7:18 p.m.

The conversation lost sense, the fact is:
Vega have the worst special moves in game, all of them are easy to block, counter and punish. They need to be used with EX to became useful.
His walk speed is the same as Chun-li, Akuma and Bison, so he isn't the faster charcter in game, and talking about his dash, there are a lot of characters that have better dash abd back dash like Chun-li, Makoto, Seth, Akuma, etc. So he doesn't stands out over the rest on this.
His Super is the worst in the game because is usefull, all characters can avoid it easily, even if you chain RLF into super to surprise your opponent. Anyways you need EX to make almost all your combos or you were spending EX to tring a poke ...
He have good normals, but not the better in game, ther are many characters that have better normals like Chun-li, Gen, Balrog, seth, etc.
His ultras are not comboable, not in a real battle ... They do decent damage, but they are bad designed, like ultra 1 you are always in risk to your opponent drops at the floor, or ultra 1 hurt box not expanding up enough to catch aerial opponents.
He have a kara throw, but at least the 60% of characters have one ...
How you can see, he doesn't have a real good weapon different to the others characters like almost characters have.
Because all of that he really need buffs, specially in his special moves.
That's all folks =D

pandaman64 said on April 24, 2014 at 5:51 a.m.

the problem here is, if your defence is 100% godlike, why play vega? It's not like defence is a trait that only supports one or two characters, it's something you need to play in general.

Why not play dhalsim, who has a projectile game and a teleport/super for reversal options on top? Why not play bison, who walks just as fast, but has a million escape options? Why not play akuma, whose low life total would be very helped by an amazing defence?

pandaman64 said on April 24, 2014 at 5:53 a.m.

He didn't know what to do, because vega doesn't HAVE anything he can do (nothing good anyway). Pre-emptive air grab, dash under, or backdash. All crummy options, but it's all he has.

pandaman64 said on April 24, 2014 at 6:45 a.m.

Alright, in order:

1) Combo to scarlet terror leads to ambiguous corpe hop mixups. Rolling crystal flash is pretty safe(-2 iirc) and good for chip. Walldives are good to build meter while avoiding fireballs too. Sky high claw is useless though, to my knowledge. So yeah, 1 out of 4 basically useless.

2) vega is TIED for fastest walk in the game, with bison, chun, and akuma. This means he walks faster than 35 other characters. It's a signifigant thing, especially when coupled with his normal grab range, which is the highest (or tied for highest) in the game.

3) Did you just say seth has better normals than Vega? No. Nononono. Balrog and chun, they at least compare. I would also have accepted M.Bison. Charge characters, as a whole, tend to have buff normals to compensate for not having access to their specials at all times. But seth? Gen!? Oh man. What are you on I don't even.

4) His ultras are bad, but his ultra 2 gives him a solid reversal option. It's not good, but it's something. And with red focus on the way, his ultras will be easier to land.

5) His kara throw happens to be the BEST IN THE GAME. Did you forget that? Best walk speed, combine with already having the biggest range on normal grab, combined with haveing a kara to increase his already big grab range....his kara is kind of a big deal. #1 most important thing about him.

Not saying vega's super awesome, and I would have loved to see buffs thrown in his direction, but when you downplay his strengths like this, you show a fundamental lack of understanding with the character.

metaf4 said on April 24, 2014 at 9:03 a.m.

@ 83 Agreed.

To #80...Relying on an Ultra in your arsenal shouldn't be a factor in why you choose a character. Look at pro players and tell me who uses Ultras to be the foundation of their game. (And Im not talking about a pro that fishes for ultras like NativeImpact) Outside of a Ryu player that lives to do DP FADC Ultra everytime they have 2 stocked meters...that style isn't going to win you a tournament anytime soon...Trust history on this not me. (Only Daigo and Alex V. have been successful on any consistent basis....and there are MILLIONS of Ryu users) T.Hawk has one of the most damaging Ultras in the game...that doesn't make him High Tier, so saying that Vega's Ultras are wack isn't valid for an argument to say he's no good. None of Oni's Ultras take any significant damage but nobody will say that Oni is wack due to this. Pro's know that you don't rely on Ultras to win..but you use them as extra weapons and potential threats to help influence game strategies against you. EG: A Dudley uses Ultra 2 vs. Ryu....that Ultra alone now influences the fact that now Ryu can't chuck fireballs for free anymore especially if he doesn't have much health left. Regardless of the character, an Ultra can help give you respect in a certain situations.

Why_capcom_why said on April 24, 2014 at 9:59 a.m.

You are wrong, you only can use RCF in combos, you can't use it as cheap in another way so your opponent easly can punish it, or grab it if his close to you. Even with EXRCF if you want to counter a proyectile you need to be really close to your opponent, if not they always will can block or punish it. Walldives are pretty unsafe because the silly 2 steps that he does when he land, making him really vulnerable to a reversal even doing it a good distance. Maybe I wrong when I said Seth normals are good (because all of him are good less his walkspeed, life and stun) but you are wrong with his specials. Seems lik not only I have lack of understanding with the character.

Why_capcom_why said on April 24, 2014 at 10:11 a.m.

Almost of vega pro players uses Ultra 2 how a corner scape, the only utility of it =/

Why_capcom_why said on April 24, 2014 at 11:09 a.m.

And I forget also Vega is one of the few characters that haven't a cross up (Only ones with really strict timing and circumstances how EXFBA or with HP or LK also in really strict circumstances and timing).

pandaman64 said on April 24, 2014 at 5:06 p.m.

Again, in order.

1) You can absolutely set up rcf on block. C.mp sets up lp rcf and the first hit of cl.hp sets up hp or lower strength rcf. It's -2 on block, so it's unpunishable in most matchups, and does chip. I agree that EX rcf kind of sucks as an evasion tool though.

2) Did I say you HIT them with walldive? No. No I did not, because focus backdash kills that move, and it's pretty punishable. BUT! If they are using fireballs, then you can use walldive to maneuver around them, and build bar. You are meant to whiff, from full screen, while dodging fireballs. BONUS GIMMICK: once they get used to you whiffing from full screen, it helps numb their reactions so you can actually try and land it. Don't get cute, obviously.

3) Go read the comment I responded to. You said seth and gen had better normals. You never mentioned specials. That's a whole 'nother conversation, guy.

4) Pro players use ultra 2 as a corner escape...AND a reversal. They do. It's got enough invulnerability to punish a blockstring with a gap in it. I've seen it landed on daigo, to punish the gap between c.mk and fireball. And this is something that will only be better next game, with the faster startup.

5) None of vega's normals can cross up easily....so? He doesn't really need one. He has lows, an overhead, and his karagrab has nutty range. That's a three way mixup. I don't even know what your point is here, guy.

Honestly, I don't even think vega's particularly good, But you appear to be greatly misrepresenting him.

Why_capcom_why said on April 25, 2014 at 2:38 p.m.

1)Yeah, only is safe in a combo, how I told you before. If you make a RCF to approach at your opponent is useless, that was I mean.

2) I don't told you FBA is unsafe when you hit, also when you use it how a walldive. Because that 2 steps he does when he land, he is vulnerable against a lot of ultras or special moves, i.e. Oil Slide from hakan, Metsu Hadouken from ryu, hard Seismic Hammer from viper, long hand from Dhalsim or seth, etc, any ranged attack.

3) When I talk about specials, I did only about Vega ones, that are the worst of all specials in game. That's what I explained

pandaman64 said on April 25, 2014 at 2:58 p.m.

1)Ah, I see. When I hear combo, I think 'on hit'. If you count 'combo' as on block, then I basically agree.

2) On FBA: I already said it's unsafe on block. But there are matchups where it's very good for meter building from full screen. Fireball characters in general, it tends to be good to use.

3) I could maybe say that vega has ONE of the worst specials in the game. (Sky high claw. Boooo). But to call them all the worst outright is wrong. green hand from gief (non-ex) and lariat are both super terrible now. Psycho crusher (non-ex) is also absolutely awful. Blanka's up ball and forward ball? pretty bad.

Why_capcom_why said on April 25, 2014 at 7:32 p.m.

Was a pleasure to discuss with you =)


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