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Why DP-FADC forward being -5 frames on block in Ultra Street Fighter 4 is fair - Jason24cf interviews GamerBee in this EventHubs exclusive

Posted by Cheng Kai 'KarbyP' Sim • May 4, 2014 at 2:59 p.m. PDT

Since Ultra Street Fighter 4 made its debut in Japanese arcades two weeks ago, there's been quite a bit of criticism with some of the changed mechanics in the game.

Namely, the Delay Standing mechanic, which has been said to have turned the new version of Street Fighter into a slower-paced, even-more-defensive game; and the DP-FADC forward being -5 frames on block nerf, which hurts the characters who rely on it to land their Ultras.

But not all of the players in Japan share those sentiments. AVerMedia-sponsored player Bruce "GamerBee" Hsiang, who's been training extensively with the new version of the game in Japan since its release, is one such player.

"I don't feel that the game's pacing is any slower, and have never heard any Japanese players talk about it," he tells EventHubs correspondent Jason24cf in this exclusive interview.

He also discusses the changes made to Adon in USF4, picks out the characters who he thinks are top 10 in this iteration, and explains why the DP-FADC forward nerf is actually quite fair -- for Adon it's not that bad at all, he says.

All that and more, after the jump.

Jason24cf: Hello Bruce "GamerBee" Hsiang, thank you for taking some time to answer a few questions for Eventhubs.com.

It's been reported by many players, like Wao, Kim1234 and other players from Japan via twitter as well as other forums, that they all shared the consensus that "USF4 feels a bit slower". Do you feel this to be true as well? And if so, can you share your opinions as to why the game's pacing feels slower?

GamerBee: I don't feel that the game's pacing is any slower, and have never heard any Japanese players talk about it. But someone is saying that the move hitboxes appear to have been changed significantly, so I feel that [maybe what Wao, Kim1234 and the other players felt] is due to character hitboxes being changed.

Jason24cf: Your character Adon has received a few changes in USF4. You have mentioned a few of those changes on Twitter a few weeks ago. Having had more time to play USF4, how would you say Adon plays overall in USF4?

GamerBee: I will say that Adon is still good enough for tournament use, but it depends on match-ups. Some, like vs. Makoto and vs. Hawk has become very tough for Adon.

The Adon play style hasn't changed, but he did get a little weaker and it seems his tough match-ups like Cammy, Akuma, and Fei Long got weakened too, He gets a better chance against them right now.

The Air Jaguar's chip damage -50% is a hurtful change, but I would say that the most hurtful change is with delayed wake-up. I was hoping they could buff Air Jaguar Kick because it's really hard to master, so expert Adon players can be distinguished. And EX Air Jaguar Kick's both hits should have been overhead, otherwise there is no meaning to the move as you can do instant EX Air Jaguar Kick, and people could block the second hit right after blocking the first.

Jason24cf: One of the biggest changes made to USF4 was the change to DP-FADC-forward now being -5 on block. Do you feel this change has made an impact to your game? Reason I ask is, Adon has to forward dash after an FADC to connect his Ultra. Do you feel this change may hurt your character's comeback potential as well as the other characters who need a forward dash after DP-FADC to connect their Ultra?

GamerBee: I think the overall DP FADC -5 is fair, because all the top players in Japan can hold focus and see if it their move had hit before deciding whether to let the attack rip, or to backdash or forward dash. For Adon it's not that bad, I can still hold Focus then decide if I should forward or backdash.

Jason24cf: Aside from Adon and Elena, are there any other characters you may consider using in USF4?

GamerBee: I also find Yang, Evil Ryu and Oni interesting, besides Elena.

Jason24cf: What is your opinion on the addition of the "Red Focus Attack"? Does it add a new layer to the game and what are some of the advantages/disadvantage of its use?

GamerBee: People still are not willing to use 2 bars for Red Focus because there are not many guaranteed situations. But some characters get a huge buff due to the Red Focus Cancel like Yun, Viper and Makoto.

Jason24cf: It's always popular to talk tiers when it comes to fighting games and in this instance, USF4. Having played the game for a little over a week now, can you share with us your tier list as well as why you feel the characters you have selected are the new top 5-10 characters?

GamerBee: After 2 weeks of play, I feel that the top 10 right now are Juri, Sagat, Makoto, Yun, Yang, E.Ryu, Oni, Viper, Guile and Rolento.

Jason24cf: Lastly, if you have any final words or shoutouts to your sponsors!

GamerBee: I just want to say my thanks to AVerMedia for their great support, and for sending me to Japan for practice. If anyone reading this is looking for a stream/record device, please consider AVerMedia!

Comments

GammaChemical said on May 4, 2014 at 3 p.m.

Should be -10

#1
MN7 said on May 4, 2014 at 3:02 p.m.

The -5 after the FADC is a fair change indeed!

#2
ShinzoBishamon said on May 4, 2014 at 3:03 p.m.

people actually think its unfair?

#3
Blackoshinomi said on May 4, 2014 at 3:04 p.m.

Yea that 1guy on eventhubs..

#4
Cyan said on May 4, 2014 at 3:10 p.m.

SRK FADC-forward should lead to an instant win for your opponent and reset your BP and PP to zero.

#5
sarif2soon said on May 4, 2014 at 3:11 p.m.

Guys
I figured out why GamerBee calls himself that.
Because a bee
would take you down
with its BEE STING

BEASTING

#6
star123us said on May 4, 2014 at 3:14 p.m.

Sagat and Guile are TOO STRONG :(

#7
spotlesseden said on May 4, 2014 at 3:20 p.m.

it's not fair, but it doesn't apply to all characters with dp. If all dps -> fadc are -5, then that's fair.

#8
xShonuffx said on May 4, 2014 at 3:23 p.m.

In before SpiderUppercuts rant about -5 on DP FADC Forward should be for every character in the game.

*grabs popcorn*

#9
Kenmasters101 said on May 4, 2014 at 3:25 p.m.

I'm glad I started playing makoto she looking top tier in this version

#10
star123us said on May 4, 2014 at 3:26 p.m.

You mean DAN????

#11
Ootori_Kyouya said on May 4, 2014 at 3:29 p.m.

You can still SRK FADC with an advantage but it comes at a cost of using a Red Focus Attack Cancel (4 bars). I'm wondering how many players will actually make use of it since it is such a gamble.

#12
RebornOdin said on May 4, 2014 at 3:37 p.m.

#7

They're fine. Sagat got an Ultra damage nerf as well as the obvious DP nerf. I don't suspect Sagat will move up or down in the tier list. His bad matchups are still bad, his good matchups are still good, his neutral matchups are still neutral. His gameplay is exactly the same and his inherent strengths and weaknesses are still the same.

He's not vanilla SF4 godly nor is he original SSF 4 nerfed.

I'm glad for Guile getting buffs, he needed them and I'm interested in fighting Guiles again (I main Sagat as I have for the past decade plus)

#13
Gotomaster said on May 4, 2014 at 3:38 p.m.

The wakeup Dp happy guy, says this is a fair change? Gamerbee, you are awesome.

#14
Urdojo said on May 4, 2014 at 3:39 p.m.

You can also use EX DP -> FADC forward. 3 bars.

#15
Noocta said on May 4, 2014 at 4:03 p.m.

I play Makoto Viper Yun and Yang. I think I'm gonna like Ultra.

#16
spotlesseden said on May 4, 2014 at 4:08 p.m.

yeah, and other characters too. when i mean dp, i mean any character that has anti air moves, similar to dp.

#17
micksinjer said on May 4, 2014 at 4:10 p.m.

Can't wait for USF4AE 2015

#18
perfume said on May 4, 2014 at 4:28 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#19
Madenka said on May 4, 2014 at 4:29 p.m.

I would have thought Honda would have been considered one the characters to appreciate red focus, hands red focus to U1 for huge damage and the corner.

I honestly don't care about this "-5 dp FADC on block" stuff now, about X character that can FADC a DP has other tools to make up for it.

#20
DunnDeal said on May 4, 2014 at 4:32 p.m.

Yep, the new character in that version will be SFxT Megaman

#21
ZaFuuru said on May 4, 2014 at 4:38 p.m.

This Jason doesn't look so smart, if you don't explain your question how is he gonna understand it? GamerBee didn't understand the question, Japanese players complained because of delayed wakeup. GamerBee thought he was talking about the speed of the game. What hitboxes have to do with the pacing of the game? The problem here is delayed wakeup

#22
Keetro said on May 4, 2014 at 4:48 p.m.

Yeah me 2 . . . Watch he says something about Adon's Walk speed or his Great Something and His character does not have this ability ? lol

#23
Remondo02 said on May 4, 2014 at 4:53 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#24
jason24cf said on May 4, 2014 at 4:56 p.m.

Bruce understood the question as we had a long discussion about the subject and I showed him other players opinions who felt the game played "slower" overall.

#25
fawaz said on May 4, 2014 at 4:59 p.m.

I'm waiting for an interview like this with Daigo & Sako.

#26
jason24cf said on May 4, 2014 at 5:01 p.m.

I submitted questions to Sako but he is currently enjoying the birth of his child so he is tied up. Daigo is a different "best" in order to get questions to him.

#27
TheMasterPlayer said on May 4, 2014 at 5:03 p.m.

Don't forget Decapre. I suspect she will not be the beginner-friendly character that Capcom says she is. If so, then only intermediate to advanced players will be able to truly understand how she plays and bring out her potential.

I am hoping at least Infiltration will pick her up in addition to his Chun Li.

#28
fawaz said on May 4, 2014 at 5:03 p.m.

Hope that happens, and with those "new" characters that people have been asking for so long.

#29
fawaz said on May 4, 2014 at 5:12 p.m.

Yeah I know about Sako. Keep trying! ;D

#30
logitech2059 said on May 4, 2014 at 5:15 p.m.

At first i was one of those people who wasn't happy at all with the -5 fadc change. But now i actually like it but i still think its not fair that Guile didn't get hit with this change aswell.
My only concern right now is with DWU i feel their needs to be a downside to it like maybe make it that you can't wake up DP if you choose to use it.

#31
Pinky said on May 4, 2014 at 5:16 p.m.

Um.... What reason do you have to nerf the other characters' Dragon Punch FADC?

Some of the other characters didn't get the nerf for very obvious reasons.

Guile has -4 on his Flash Kick FADC, PLUS it has very low invincibility. His EX Flash Kick FADC is what most Guiles tend to do and that costs 3 meters.

Ibuki and Dudley have NO invincibility on their dragon punches except for their EX versions. They don't deserve the nerf, especially since Dudley is worse than mid tier.

Dan, well, please tell me what super good advantages does Dan have with most of the other characters. Plus he's -3 on DP FADC block. The characters who got the nerf have -1 or -2 on block, so Dan's DP FADC is only "slightly" safe compared to the other ones.

Viper can only link hers to another DP off the corner. Mid screen, she can't follow up with anything.

While Capcom is not usually the most "Critically Thinking" company for balancing, this is one of the best things they've done for SF4, AND they made it even more intelligent by targeting the characters that had the most benefits from the DP fadc.

#32
danny2times said on May 4, 2014 at 5:24 p.m.

Solid interview Jason, I enjoyed reading it. B-)

Gamerbee is such a humble guy. No tears for his characters nerfs. Just that solid work ethic. I'd like to see his Oni in action the dudes got great timing and execution. Perfect for Oni.

#33
logitech2059 said on May 4, 2014 at 5:34 p.m.

I thought Guile fadc was -2 my bad i guess his fine then. As for the low invincibility, that got buffed in Ultra i think his now 6f invincible on all his flash kicks which is more then Ryu so his definitely going to be an anti air monster.

#34
RebornOdin said on May 4, 2014 at 5:38 p.m.

#36

Sort-of right.

USF 4:
LK, EX: 4 frame start-up, 6 frames invulnerable
MK, HK: 4 frame start-up, 4 frames invulnerable

Subtract a frame of invulnerability and that's where we're at now.

#35
Keetro said on May 4, 2014 at 5:49 p.m.

thanks for posting all of this b/c now I don't have to after I refreshed the page

#36
danny2times said on May 4, 2014 at 5:49 p.m.

You're the one sounding pretty stupid here guy. In not Jason's biggest fan but he asked a question and Bruce answered it with his opinion. Perhaps you should stick to what is said and not make assumptions, or try to read to far into something that's not there.

Had Jason asked him about delayed wake-up, Bruce would've given him an opinion on it. The question was pretty open ended and that's how he answered it.
You're implying that gamer bee is also not smart by suggesting he was "confused" with a pretty black and white question. Our maybe he knows what happens when people assume.....it makes you an a$$ hole. Dummy.

#37
logitech2059 said on May 4, 2014 at 5:55 p.m.

Oh ok thanks for the info! Having just one decent non ex anti air is more then enough anyway. Like Ryu and Kens MP DP. The HK and MK is probably supposed to be used for combos.

#38
Pinky said on May 4, 2014 at 6:02 p.m.

Heh. No problem.

@logitech.

Yeah, I believe they also put up a video of the -5 DP FADC nerf explaining some of the exceptions.

#39
spotlesseden said on May 4, 2014 at 6:08 p.m.

viper can dp fadc ultra off screen. i saw Jayce The Ace did it all the time. I don't play viper, i don't know how viper player do it.

Dan should be -5 also, dan is meant to be joke character. They never want to make him playable any way.

#40
samuraix025 said on May 4, 2014 at 6:30 p.m.

I knew I couldn't the only I've who was like eventhubs just put Spider uppercut on blast lmao

#41
Pinky said on May 4, 2014 at 6:30 p.m.

Except a good number of people, including Ixion, play Dan.

Plus Capcom has said that they wanted to make every character viable, including Dan.

Dan should be a joke, but he shouldn't be bad just because of it.

#42
spman2099 said on May 4, 2014 at 7:25 p.m.

Yes, we COULD waste a perfectly good character. Or, just hear me out on this one, we make him slightly better so that there can be more variety in the game. Radical thinking! Dan is already fun, but he needs a little more to be viable at the higher levels of play (capable of consistently winning when played appropriately). Yes, traditionally he was a "joke character", but that doesn't mean he has to stay that way. Tradition is the corpse of wisdom.

#43
MRN_SirFoxington said on May 4, 2014 at 8:01 p.m.

Odd to NOT see Spideruppercut yet entering this topic to enlighten us with top tier wisdom...

You know,we do love you spider ;)

#44
Xykes said on May 4, 2014 at 8:15 p.m.

For all this talk of -5 DP FADC, I have really only seen it punished like twice in actual USF4 Japanese footage.

Other times, I've seen the DP > FADC go unpunished...or I've seen the defender get counter-punished trying to punish it.

It's much harder to consistently punish in practice than on paper. And, it certainly hasn't deterred players from DP > FADC as much as you worrywarts thought.

Overblown.

#45
Sadisticcupid said on May 4, 2014 at 8:18 p.m.

Oh sir foxington, your sarcasm does wonders

#46
ANGRY_SCAR said on May 4, 2014 at 8:30 p.m.

-5 DP FADC ruins alot of rushdown options for a large portion of the character cast which definitely slows the game down so its more defensive based.

It is what it is... but I'm in huge favor of reverting it back to the way it was.

#47
Fallenrose777 said on May 4, 2014 at 9:01 p.m.

i was thinking the same

#48
MrNova749 said on May 4, 2014 at 9:10 p.m.

Thank you

#49
MrNova749 said on May 4, 2014 at 9:17 p.m.

It was too abusive. The still have the fireball to rush with safely so that's good enough

#50
wayofBushinRyu said on May 4, 2014 at 9:35 p.m.

I read every comment and find it weird that Spider Uppercut has not yet came in whining about how it isn't fair.

#51
GodPride said on May 4, 2014 at 9:40 p.m.

And it happens to be an article were the subject is the most appropriate.

#52
SpiderUppercut said on May 4, 2014 at 11:28 p.m.

Hehe.

Good to see that the change is getting some discussion from top players... nice interview with GamerBee!

I'll just sit here now and hope that they manage to get Edition Select working online (with Ranked Mode too!).. then I'll pick Vanilla Guile.

SwiftRage.

#53
MRN_SirFoxington said on May 5, 2014 at 7:32 a.m.

Now that you mention it Sir,

I think it makes sense. You are right it barely got punished SO FAR and to ne honest,Gentlemen, it wont be that big of a deal.

#54
sarif2soon said on May 5, 2014 at 7:40 a.m.

If it's not much of a change, why do people want it?
Let's just, you know, remove it.

#55
fawaz said on May 5, 2014 at 8:25 a.m.

Exactly.

#56
Xykes said on May 5, 2014 at 9:40 a.m.

Because, it gets easier to punish the more frequently you use it.

So, if you use it sparingly, you can usually get away with it.

If you spam it every match and use it as a crutch whenever you don't want to think, the opponent will get hip to it, and start punishing you. Or, if you use it predictably at obvious times, your opponent is more likely to be ready for it...and punish you.

This way it encourage thoughtful use of DP FADC. You can't just DO it without any fear. You have to think about it more. Have I been using this too much recently? Will they be looking for it? What kind of -5 punishes does my opponent have? How much damage can I potentially lose? Should I FADC backdash instead?

The way it should be. Thoughtful.

-5 is perfect.

#57
Xykes said on May 5, 2014 at 9:50 a.m.

Large portion of the cast? A small MINORITY of the cast has DP > FADC. Basically just the shotos, Sagat, Adon, Cammy, Fei. That's a small portion of the 44 person cast.

The rushdown capability of a vast MAJORITY of the cast just got BUFFED, because of the -5 nerf. Now, the rest of the cast can rush down, without fear of eating a safe Ultra at any moment.

Judging by your name, I bet you only though about things from the perspective of the nerfed characters.

#58
Necreon said on May 5, 2014 at 11:21 a.m.

Adon DP FADC fwd -5 on block? Who cares? FADC back and use U1.

#59
U4iA27 said on May 5, 2014 at 11:36 a.m.

With this and xyles comment hopefully ppl will finally shut up about the -5 nerf. Its fair and is still a viable mixup option. Pkus holding focus gives u more than enough time to confirm and plan a appropriate action.

#60
devilcuco said on May 5, 2014 at 11:38 a.m.

Imo the -5 change has no sense if you can avoid it by holding fa a bit too hit confirm, or if there are chars that can do srk fadc backdash ultra like sagat. So they should reduce the juggle frames to make it only possible to connect with fadc ultra with instant forward dash into ultra. Our just get rid of -5.

All or nothing.

#61
SpiderUppercut said on May 5, 2014 at 11:45 a.m.

Sounds good.

But since I've seen Sagat players like Bonchan and Ryan Hart (and players who use other 'DP' characters) use DP FADC dash forward offensively, they will lose attack and pressure options.

Let's apply the change evenly across the entire cast.
That will encourage thoughtful play across the board!

#62
xFNEx said on May 5, 2014 at 1:54 p.m.

It's there so that a shoto can't completely shift the momentum by DPing, at least with the -5 nerf it will reset the situation for the most part if they use half of their super bar as opposed to doing it and completely flipping the table and putting the opponent that was just previously attacking into a defensive state.

#63


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