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Bonchan is now 85% confident about beating Luffy in the Sagat vs. Rose match-up, says far standing MK is key

Posted by Cheng Kai 'KarbyP' Sim • August 20, 2014 at 12:26 p.m. PDT

Over the weekend, we reported that Bonchan, the runner-up for Ultra Street Fighter 4 at EVO this year, had been playing quite a bit of Rose in an attempt to better familiarize himself with the character that sent him packing from the world's biggest fighting games tournament.

But already it appears that the top Japanese Sagat player has already learned all the ins and outs of this match-up, according to himself.

On this week's episode of Kachigatari TV, in which Bonchan, RZR|Fuudo and Kazunoko are co-hosts, the trio run into a Rose player online just as it was Bonchan's turn to play.

And that's when the EVO runner-up proclaims confidently that he's more or less mastered the match-up.

"I'm done with my research on the vs. Rose match-up," Bonchan says as he's about to play against the Rose online warrior, right around 01:33:30 in the stream archive embedded below.



"Eh? Are you sure?" Kazunoko asks, somewhat in disbelief.

"I'm 85% confident [about the Rose match-up/beating Luffy]," Bonchan continues. "I've got a pretty firm grasp on almost all of the things I've got to do in this match-up."

Just as Bonchan finishes saying that sentence, he punishes a whiffed Soul Spiral from Rose with Sagat's far standing MK, much to the awe of his co-hosts. That appears to be one of Bonchan's new tools for dealing with the match-up. He ends up performing the move a little later than he would have liked in this case, however.

Far standing MK is not a tool with no weaknesses, of course. Bonchan goes on to explain that there are ways of countering the move, if your opponent sees it coming.

"And Luffy's particularly good at making such reads," one of the Topanga staffers (who doesn't appear on screen) notes.

Regardless, Bonchan thinks that far standing MK is an important tool for the Sagat vs. Rose match-up.

"I've worked out all of the match-up knowledge [for Sagat vs. Rose]. All that remains is to put it into practice," Bonchan comments as he finishes the online match.

"Yeah, right. All you're doing now that's different from before is adding in that far standing MK move," Kazunoko quips mockingly.

"I really do think that this is a match-up where the way Sagat's far standing MK is used is key," Bonchan says in response.

"There aren't any other match-ups quite like this [that requires far standing MK tactics], but for this match-up it's better if the move is utilized."

Source: Kachigatari TV via Chigesoku.

Comments

thf24 said on August 20, 2014 at 12:26 p.m.

Money match?

#1
The_Big_Boss said on August 20, 2014 at 12:28 p.m.

If anyone can do it, it's Bonchan.

#2
sarif2soon said on August 20, 2014 at 12:30 p.m.

He was previously 100% confident
Kappa

#3
Gotomaster said on August 20, 2014 at 12:34 p.m.

I'm glad he learned the matchup, but Rose is still a fairly simple character to understand. She ain't no Gen with lots of gimmicks, and setups. I feel losing that badly to Luffy isn't just due to lack of matchup knowledge, but only because there is nobody who uses her in the same level Luffy has displayed. I think he will fare better for sure, just hope he isn't too 1 dimensional in his gameplan, as Luffy will figure him out. Afterall, Luffy knows the Sagat matchup as well, we saw what he did to Ryan Hart at Dreamhack not to long ago, and Ryan is arguably the second best Sagat.

#4
zUkUu said on August 20, 2014 at 12:38 p.m.

It's like Wrestling Math

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFoC3...

#5
XStrangeBeautyX said on August 20, 2014 at 12:39 p.m.

LOL the Rose match up is not a concrete one.. She can easily slip out of your plans..... and have you looking like a fool

#6
Albert_o6 said on August 20, 2014 at 12:49 p.m.

like a true professional, he lost, he went into the lab and he's now confident about the matchup. Never screamed his character was weaker or asked for rose nerfs like I would do..lol. Big up to Bonchan.

#7
DarkPhantom70 said on August 20, 2014 at 12:53 p.m.

To bad that it's to late now. Maybe should have done more lab time before evo.

#8
Kudarane said on August 20, 2014 at 12:59 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#9
GiBGUN said on August 20, 2014 at 1 p.m.

He needs to learn the Luffy matchup not the Rose matchup. That guy takes Rose to another level.

#10
TheFeistyOne said on August 20, 2014 at 1 p.m.

who would have thought that a rose would make it into top4

#11
Kelshou said on August 20, 2014 at 1:04 p.m.

It's impossible to be super prepared for every matchup in the game...there's just way too many characters.

#12
Memanruler said on August 20, 2014 at 1:10 p.m.

Luffy plays the most high level Rose you can play. Bonchan didn't know a thing about fighting Rose, that was demonstrated in GFs.

I believe Bonchan can beat Luffy, but he lost because he didn't know how to fight Rose, he only assumed and that's why he lost.

Props to Luffy on taking EVO, he's a great player, but I've always thought Bonchan was better.

#13
PlasmaWaffle said on August 20, 2014 at 1:21 p.m.

salty runback!

#14
EnglishKidChin said on August 20, 2014 at 1:25 p.m.

Hindsight is 20/20!

#15
Eden said on August 20, 2014 at 1:31 p.m.

Even if he knows the Rose MU, it's very different when it's Luffy. Ryan Hart knows Rose and Luffy perfectly, and is a great player. Nevertheless, he's struggling against Luffy, especially on USF.

According to Luffy, Juri beats Rose 7-3, and Momochi was helpless. You need to know the MU, but it's not enough.

#16
MortonBaths said on August 20, 2014 at 1:32 p.m.

Sounds and looks like he still wants to zone rose. If he plays Luffy like that guy @ 1:33:30 , I'm 85% sure he'd lose….again. I love Bonchan's crisp play, but damn it looks like he and other Japanese players are still sleeping on Rose.

#17
BlackOnyxThunder said on August 20, 2014 at 1:42 p.m.

85% is officially the "number of the day" folks.

#18
OhYouDontSayThat said on August 20, 2014 at 1:47 p.m.

It's fitting that this guy mains sagat...
cause' now he BUURNS FOR REVENGE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#19
Baby_Astaroth said on August 20, 2014 at 1:56 p.m.

The Rose in this video doesn't have ish on Luffy. Bonchan going to get embarrassed again.

#20
put_Garuda_in_SFIV said on August 20, 2014 at 2:07 p.m.

Do people seriously think Louffy is overall a better player than Bonchan? Ha.

#21
evo546 said on August 20, 2014 at 2:07 p.m.

Trust me when the japanese decide to focus on a player it going to be free. Look at Daigo vs xian and infiltration

#22
diddykv said on August 20, 2014 at 2:11 p.m.

Bonchan vs. Luffy runback.

Make it happen, Topanga!

#23
goukibuki said on August 20, 2014 at 2:14 p.m.

I always felt Sako in Super was the pinnacle version of Rose at high level.

I guess its neither here not there as that version is dust and Ultra Rose lives on.

I'd love to see a rematch between Bonchan and Luffy. Hopefully someone can make that happen.

#24
sergio_reyes_ said on August 20, 2014 at 2:22 p.m.

this is pure practice pure training sagant and rose

#25
SAMURAI said on August 20, 2014 at 2:28 p.m.

Doesn't matter now, even if Bonchan wins a first to 100 with 100-0, Luffy still beat every Japanese player they put in front of him at the biggest stage on the planet to become the first European EVO champion.

Luffy is godlike!

#26
Teags said on August 20, 2014 at 2:30 p.m.

Where does the name Topanga come from anyway? Is the Japanese FGC really big fans of Boy Meets World?

(Serious question followed by kappa question)

#27
Weid said on August 20, 2014 at 2:33 p.m.

Louffy must kill bonchan and supersantaromam lol

#28
pinoy929 said on August 20, 2014 at 2:34 p.m.

Money match.

#29
put_Garuda_in_SFIV said on August 20, 2014 at 2:38 p.m.

I'm going to upvote every single comment of yours until the end of time

#30
Ninjanuity said on August 20, 2014 at 3:03 p.m.

Okay Fi.

#31
Cascadian1106 said on August 20, 2014 at 3:09 p.m.

Not having faced a Yun player, Daigo or Infiltration made that miracle win happen for Lucky Luffy.

#32
Boris_17z said on August 20, 2014 at 3:11 p.m.

Bonchan should stop throwing so many fireballs instead of looking so hard for miraculous solutions.

#33
Kudarane said on August 20, 2014 at 3:23 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#34
battlesong said on August 20, 2014 at 3:36 p.m.

Ya know, I was thinking about this exact same thing the other day too, lol. Can anybody englighten us on the Topanga league? Who runs it? Where does the money come from (which sponsors)? Who decides the rules, games, etc? Why's it called Topanga? Any information would be great for better appreciation of the best league tournament in the FGC.

#35
grahamwolfe said on August 20, 2014 at 3:40 p.m.

Anyone can say Bonchan is better, I even admitted a player was better than me that I've beaten. But being better means nothing! its about tourney results and if he won Evo thats all that matters.

#36
Nevran said on August 20, 2014 at 3:44 p.m.

No.

People just think that Luffy's level is way stronger than people think. Bon-Chan isn't gonna win only because he finally learned the match-up. It isn't that simple.

When you fight Kazunoko, you won't win because you just learned how to finally deal against yun. You will win because you also suceeded to beat a extremely good player that is also a specialist with his character.

He did his work, he finally know how to deal in this MU.
Now, he need to beat Luffy's gameplan and general mindgame, and that is harder. It isn't a question of "Lol Luffy is better", it isn't about how good you are but about how good you can adapt to your opponent.

#37
Schwoi said on August 20, 2014 at 3:46 p.m.

Funny how Luffy is the first european to win evo, but obviously has some asian roots

#38
sh1ny said on August 20, 2014 at 3:49 p.m.

I THINK THIS ARTICLE IS WRONG.

After watching all the stream, Bonchan meant that he completed 85% of the analysis of this match-up. He mentioned that he need to practice based on the analysis.

#39
Gotomaster said on August 20, 2014 at 3:50 p.m.

Funny you say that, because I think on average, Bonchan's results are better than Luffy's.

#40
Nayte said on August 20, 2014 at 3:55 p.m.

Yeah that's awesome Bonchan ! Did you also find a time machine to go back to EVO and claim your cashprize ?

#41
Sage_Liebert said on August 20, 2014 at 4:03 p.m.

Luffy won't be heard from again after evo. Leave it to the forum flunkies to make someone forever unstoppable.

#42
UCLAplayer said on August 20, 2014 at 4:08 p.m.

Luffy saw this article, and he says st.mk is old tech which has been used by Ryan Hart for years. Ouch...

#43
Gotomaster said on August 20, 2014 at 4:20 p.m.

Wonder how Bonchan will respond, lol.

#44
VelvetWonder said on August 20, 2014 at 4:44 p.m.

You're right. That lucky fraud ! He didn't even had to fight Filipino Champ, Jon Choi and that Velociraptor guy. Those were the real thread !

Note: I say that for comical purpose. It isn't meant to belittle any of these player, btw. I just find it amusing that people still can't let go of an event that happened a month ago.

#45
urien said on August 20, 2014 at 4:46 p.m.

i seriously dont understand how the hell you compare bonchan to Ryan Hart ,Ryan heart is the best Sagat.................in UK.
While bonchan was always the best in the world.
There were discusion about Mago but Mago Was first because of the endless hours he stays at the arcade (700K points!!!)
Also never understood why ryan hear sagat is good.
Never saw him do something that good,i think leslie sagat (xian buddy) is way better than him.Gosh even Alioune Sensei sagat is better.

@Grahamwolve
on the contrary, being the best is all that matter.

#46
oro77 said on August 20, 2014 at 5:47 p.m.

Bonchan is overall better than Ryan Hart but Luffy said Ryan know the matchup better than Bonchan (during EVO). I don't know if the recent Bonchan training will work against Luffy, as said earlier Bonchan needs to understand the Luffy matchup, it is more important than the Rose's one.

#47
TheAlmightyVox said on August 20, 2014 at 6:01 p.m.

But everyone knows the Rose-Sagat matchup is 15-0. Kappa

Seriously though, all the people who were denying that Bonchan didn't know the matchup and lost because Rose is overpowered, well, here you go.

#48
Kenho_23 said on August 20, 2014 at 6:33 p.m.

The only way to know is a rematch!!! And we all wanted to see it

#49
x_Who_Is_Alpha said on August 20, 2014 at 6:41 p.m.

I came to that conclusion 2 years ago when I faced off against catalyst with Sagat. Glad me and Bonchan think alike.

#50
dorayaki said on August 20, 2014 at 6:42 p.m.

You kids don't even see the point of this article??

The point is to describe why Daigo is the best.

When you win that major like EVO, you're a target. You become the subject of research and scrutiny. Next thing you know, you're whining about how you need to change characters to keep winning. (See Xian, Infiltration, PRRog for references)

Daigo has been under the microscope for years and years and years. Yet, he's still the favorite to win any tournament or exhibition he enters. Now that is impressive.

#51
dorayaki said on August 20, 2014 at 6:45 p.m.

I meant to say Poongko, not Infiltration btw. Much respect to all fighters though.

#52
doomfanatiq said on August 20, 2014 at 6:49 p.m.

interestingly, rose far standing HK and sagat far standing MK are both 9 frames together...

Rose have longer range, sagat reduce lower body hurtbox.

if that is all that bonchan came up with for sagat, it would still be hard for him to win in that matchup. hope he have some secret unblockable for rose kappa.

#53
DevSF4 said on August 20, 2014 at 7:08 p.m.

Ahaha lola its because he just powered up to SSJ look at his hair
:)

#54
Taisutewarrior said on August 20, 2014 at 7:13 p.m.

まだRyanとBonchan比較してんのか。レベルが違うだろいい加減にしろ。

#55
rosy said on August 20, 2014 at 7:25 p.m.

Agree.

#56
doomfanatiq said on August 20, 2014 at 7:31 p.m.

seriously, if far standing mk is all that bonchan could come up with, that's how badly sagat lose in footsies against rose, not to mentioned, far standing mk range is poor, slow startup of 9 frames, can be whiff punish by some of rose's longer pokes easily.

Rose is not like gen with some unblockable gimmicks, even if you knew the matchup it's hard to outpoke rose in footsies with sagat...

#57
ury said on August 20, 2014 at 7:40 p.m.

Man......There is only 1 Big Poppa Pump.

#58
kdavis851 said on August 20, 2014 at 7:46 p.m.

I LOVE this.

#59
Smorgasboard said on August 20, 2014 at 8:23 p.m.

IF Bon-chan can get the match-up down to 5-5 from the 8-2 it was at Evo, then he'll have a much better chance at beating Luffy than Ryan Hart already.

Ryan Hart is one of Europe's top 3 players but Bon-chan has a hyperbolic time chamber called Topanga so it'll be more interesting to see what Bon-chan comes up with.

#60
Temet said on August 20, 2014 at 11:49 p.m.

It's nice to see that it took one month and an half of research to Bonchan to thinking beeing able to beat Luffy.

#61
pip said on August 21, 2014 at 12:36 a.m.

Super Santarouman (probably second best Sagat in Japan) destroyed Kawaguchi (one of the best Rose in Japan) in a first to 10 (10-2), making the match up look heavily in Sagat's favour even if it's really not the case:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fin_...

But I think Louffy would win against Santarouman because he's a better player, not because the match up is easy for Rose.

#62
Stompnik said on August 21, 2014 at 1 a.m.

Hm 85%? Why not make it 87%? Would be 2% more. And Louffy would only be 13% of an evo champ.

Seriously, those percentages...so random...LOL!

#63
Mighty_One58 said on August 21, 2014 at 2:19 a.m.

In before Rose is gonna get nerfed before the rematch.

#Kappa

#64
XNO said on August 21, 2014 at 2:46 a.m.

its a double edged sword...

if he DO beat luffy next time , everyone will praise his analytic skill

but if he loses... it gonna be funny XD

#65
JuriTheSpider said on August 21, 2014 at 4:25 a.m.

Yep because evo is the only tournament that matters and always results in the most skilled player taking the whole thing. That's more or less what you just tried to say

#66
MRN_SirFoxington said on August 21, 2014 at 7:31 a.m.

LOL !

#67
Magmi said on August 21, 2014 at 8:46 a.m.

eventhubs aka luffy dickriders

#68
Ammonites said on August 21, 2014 at 12:46 p.m.

He's 85% confident? But I'm 86% sure he's not really 85% confident.

#69
cdborrego said on August 21, 2014 at 2:10 p.m.

And the response from Luffy is....??????

#70
metaf4 said on August 21, 2014 at 5:43 p.m.

I find this whole Rose being a problem a redundant topic. Its obvious that its the player not the character. How many Ryu players are there in the online FGC? Is Ryu considered top tier? When Daigo won EVO and other major tournaments...bodied Xian 10-0, etc...did we say Ryu was god tier? No, because we all know the Ryu matchup....however who knows how to beat Daigo's Ryu? Same has to apply with Luffy. Honestly, before EVO...NOBODY would be looking at a Rose player online and be like "oh crap! Another high level over powered Rose player" phulease! But because Bonchan looked so free in the matchup and for some reason thought that chucking 20 tiger shots a round was gonna win him the Rose matchup...Rose automatically became top tier? Its Luffy that Bonchan should be studying....not Rose as a character. I think personally that Dhalsim is free...does that mean I should expect the same skill-set from Filipino Champ and fight him with the same strategy I would use against other online Dhalsims? Cause thats exactly what Bonchan did against Luffy and he got exposed for it.

#71
xianmsg said on August 21, 2014 at 8:47 p.m.

I am 50% confident of beating anyone any day

#72
Capcom_Warrior said on August 22, 2014 at 11:33 a.m.

Aww...don't doubt yourself. You're awesome!

#73
Safe said on August 28, 2014 at 12:20 p.m.

http://ask.fm/Luffy086/answer/1165739...

He said : "I laughed"

#74


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