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Rare footage of Poongko actually losing to a Dee Jay in Ultra Street Fighter 4; The Machine from Korea plays Seth, Poison online

Posted by Cheng Kai 'KarbyP' Sim • August 2, 2014 at 1:33 p.m. PDT

By this point of Ultra Street Fighter 4's shelf life, it's already commonly acknowledged that Dee Jay is one of the worst characters in the entire roster, if not the worst -- but that doesn't mean you can't win matches with him.

Playing the match-up is one thing, but just as important is playing your opponent. Read him like a book. Make him come to you, walk into your trap.

That's exactly what Kitasenju DJ did to secure a win online against The Machine from Korea, Poongko, prompting him to switch to another one of his characters for the salty runback.

Videos from ultra fighters.

Comments

nitrocan said on August 2, 2014 at 1:35 p.m.

Rare footage of Poongko actually being Angry Poongko haha.

#1
R4yZ said on August 2, 2014 at 1:49 p.m.

And he punish him :p

#2
BadNewsVegas said on August 2, 2014 at 2:03 p.m.

!? I thought Poongko got blew up at first from the title... He lost to a really good player is all.

#3
Claus said on August 2, 2014 at 2:07 p.m.

Well both DeeJay and Seth are garbage tier characters so it's understandable

#4
2101RYU said on August 2, 2014 at 2:09 p.m.

how exactly did we so quickly determine that deejay is terrible with there being so few players actually putting any work in with him, anyway?

#5
Existent said on August 2, 2014 at 2:13 p.m.

The reason that there are so few is -because- he's terrible.

#6
NightmareSnake2 said on August 2, 2014 at 2:17 p.m.

Kitasenju just really knows his character. Respect for that.

#7
Refrigerator said on August 2, 2014 at 2:23 p.m.

He's Korean, so this banner with "Poongko-san" is a little ignorant.

#8
Toomnyusernae said on August 2, 2014 at 2:25 p.m.

Great win quote Editing skillz. Had me a good chuckle.

#9
Burnt said on August 2, 2014 at 2:28 p.m.

Would that not be a Japanese fighter calling him that though?

#10
Kelshou said on August 2, 2014 at 2:28 p.m.

Seth is far from "garbage tier".

#11
djm0001 said on August 2, 2014 at 2:31 p.m.

DeeJay is the best in the game, open your eyes guys

#12
2101RYU said on August 2, 2014 at 2:44 p.m.

circular logic; the smaller the pool of data from which we can glean constructively, the less meaningful determinations we're able to make about said data. sometimes characters are "bad" because they're just underdeveloped. sometimes characters are "good" because the meta hasn't caught up to a given strategy yet.

my intent is not to insist that deejay is great, I'm just tired of the comfortable confidence with which the fgc is willing to make ultimate conclusions about a character's viability without doing any work themselves.

#13
darkblade13 said on August 2, 2014 at 2:47 p.m.

It is understandable since both characters are nerfed to hell.

#14
Da_Knut said on August 2, 2014 at 2:50 p.m.

He is bad, still bad and was always bad

#15
Refrigerator said on August 2, 2014 at 2:54 p.m.

Dee Jay is Jamaican and Seth has no nationality. The author of the article isn't Japanese. There's no reason to call him Poongko-san.

#16
Vortigon said on August 2, 2014 at 2:55 p.m.

Thanks Capcom.

#17
2101RYU said on August 2, 2014 at 2:55 p.m.

incredibly thorough & convincing argument, thank you.

#18
GiBGUN said on August 2, 2014 at 2:56 p.m.

EH Banners are getting better by the minute haha. Even nailed the font of the victory comment!

#19
KarbyP said on August 2, 2014 at 3:07 p.m.

#9 and #19:

:D

Almost thought nobody noticed!

#20
KarbyP said on August 2, 2014 at 3:08 p.m.

#8 and #16:

It's just a joke. Lighten up!

#21
Existent said on August 2, 2014 at 3:14 p.m.

The circular logic goes both ways. That's my point.

#22
PijamaLlama said on August 2, 2014 at 3:17 p.m.

As always I'm loving the banner

#23
2101RYU said on August 2, 2014 at 3:28 p.m.

no, that was _my_ point. i didn't say he was good or bad, i said we had frustratingly limited data, which is just an observation. you said we have limited data _because_ he's bad, which is a qualified judgment and is reliant upon a presupposed self-fulfilling premise to actually work.

in other words: we aren't seeing a bunch of people try to succeed with deejay and subsequently failing due to clearly insurmountable limitations, we're seeing a bunch of people deem him to not be worth the trouble and never really bothering to try to begin with. i don't think this is a convincing precedent and i think it's a really serious blindspot in the way the fgc thinks about things like tiers.

#24
FightDirty said on August 2, 2014 at 3:32 p.m.

Last I heard Edition Select will become available online soon and that makes me wonder which version of Seth is considered the best? I would assume either Vanilla or Super edition 'cause it seems that post SSF4 he has been steadily nerfed.

#25
Books said on August 2, 2014 at 3:36 p.m.

Everyone needs to stop saying "because Seth is also bad." Poongko has still been doing very well with Seth in tourneys and online. He hasn't suddenly started losing in Ultra. USF4 is a game where the worst characters still have somewhat of a chance. There is no D or F tier in this game. No S+ tier yet either, for that matter.

#26
2101RYU said on August 2, 2014 at 3:45 p.m.

to clarify a bit: one of the biggest problems with the way tier lists are handled is that they work from the top down, prioritizing brokenness over viability. what happens then is that the further down the list you get, the more characters are slept on simply because they would take more work to have their strengths be recognized. this then reinforces a trend of sticking to what we know works rather than what could possibly work, and data is skewed in favor of comfort and familiarity over investigative development. this is further compounded by the fact that money is on the line and nobody wants to get caught with their pants down. it's a difficult situation, but i still wish folks would try a little harder before deciding who's terrible, or at the very least be more honest about the limitations of our knowledge.

#27
TagAnarchy said on August 2, 2014 at 3:56 p.m.

Thank you.

#28
Deneb said on August 2, 2014 at 4:13 p.m.

If Deejay is the worst in the game, then the game is balanced. He's totally viable as the vids show. Although, not so sure Poonkgo is without the random gamble factor of older Seth incarnations:P Exposed?

#29
Kaxner said on August 2, 2014 at 4:25 p.m.

Any character can win a random match or two. Doesn't mean they're not far weaker than the others. If you saw a video of Daigo ripping people apart with Dan, would you say the character is not weak just because of that?

#30
FGCisTrash said on August 2, 2014 at 4:42 p.m.

hahaha stop being childish and admit to your mistake. This tip will help you out in the real world

#31
Da_Knut said on August 2, 2014 at 4:43 p.m.

The character is awful. He lacks tools to compete in the meta game. I've been using DJ since the beginning and his tools are lacking. His tools were always lacking and Capcom nerfed him. DWU was his biggest nerf. He is easily bottom 3.

#32
ChipsLight said on August 2, 2014 at 5:06 p.m.

Rare footage of a competitive player losing to another competitive player.

#33
metaf4 said on August 2, 2014 at 5:08 p.m.

BTW that was not a "salty runback" with poison...

1. If you check at the beginning of each vid Poongko actually has less PP than when he does his "Salty Runback" with Poison so that's pretty hard to believe...That's 230 PP he won by the time of the "Salty Runback" and by PP standards...winning that much PP isn't easy once you're in the 3000+ PP range, one loss can cost you over 100+ PP while one win MIGHT get you just over 30 PP

2. The Dee Jay player also LOST the exact amount of PP (230PP) by the time the "Salty Runback" happened. That would be IMPOSSIBLE if it was a quick runback.

So actually If this is indeed a runback, Poongko BEAT Kitasenju DJ with Poison first and then when the DJ player rematched Poongko, Poongko picked Seth and lost.

But to lose 230PP in one match?!? That's hard to believe....I would almost assume that its two separate matches on two separate occasions.

#34
Ethredis said on August 2, 2014 at 5:59 p.m.

This is not a salty runback, a simple look at the stats of both players can tell you that.

#35
MRN_SirFoxington said on August 2, 2014 at 6:09 p.m.

Capcom needs to SERIOUSLY take another SHARP look at Seth before they go for a Patch !

Just for F*cks sake, at least revert Seth back to his AE2012 version if capcom dont want to give him buffs..... because poongko needs to win again !

:'(

#36
yunbelievable said on August 2, 2014 at 6:13 p.m.

Yeah... Deejay is bottom 5 for sure. He gets crushed by characters that can use one thing to completely neutralize his wakeup (READ: EVERYONE). He had lk sobat as a great pressure and footsie tool and they took that away, and his EX MGU now whiffs on certain combos where it used to not whiff. Deejay is worse than he was before, and Capcom somehow saw fit that it was okay to leave him like this when almost every other character who was semi-bad got buffed to viability. Even Dan got big buffs...

#37
yunbelievable said on August 2, 2014 at 6:20 p.m.

His 2012 version was too good... that's why they nerfed him. However, with DWU he may be balanced with his AE 2012 state. Maybe... hard to tell. Part of what made him so good was how ridiculously good his mixup after command grab was.

#38
Existent said on August 2, 2014 at 6:27 p.m.

How do you know how many people are seriously trying to use him? You're talking about presuppositions when your logic is based just as much on one.

#39
yes4me said on August 2, 2014 at 6:40 p.m.

There is a first to everything.

#40
liamdmc said on August 2, 2014 at 6:47 p.m.

actually the truth is 2012 seth with dwu would be fine maybe even better. the truth that alot of non-seth players dont know is that alot of what makes seth good isnt what people who dont play him think make him good. everybody talks about his spd which is good but the truth is he has alot of air reset setups. corner firecracker legs, anti air lp shoryuken, crhp into lp shoryuken. everything that does hop kicks into dive kicks is a strong set up with seth and completely negates dwu.
as a seth player what killed him is actually simple. his crossover hk as much as i miss it, and it does aid in his dying isnt the main cause. dive kick is now better and worse depending on hitting which actually makes it worse overall. and wall jump setups and pressure are gone.
but mostly what kills seth (in my opinion) is he has no end game no more. before it was a case of zone, zone, zone boom get in stay in till stun. mix up opponent. however its not 50/50. thats what stupid people think, hell shoryuken on its own beats like 6/8 of seths options. its clever understanding of the opponents need to get out.
but now its a case of nothing does stun. you have to pressure and be all over the opponent for a good 80% of their life to get stun and tbh its not worth it anymore. seth suffers from the hedghog dilema kinda. the closer he is in and the longer, the more likely he will get hurt in return. and this is especially more so than any other character because all his stuff is super negative and with the HUGE life increase he has skyrocketed up the list to still 50 hp less than everybody whilst having nothing special anymore. hell if your gona play seth now best to play him like ryu and guile. get damage which he can do with firecracker legs doing more and just run and zone.

#41
Kira_Timmy said on August 2, 2014 at 7:54 p.m.

Are people still trying to act like deejay is an undiscovered Gem? Lmao. Deejay for Evo '15!

#42
TheCheeze09 said on August 2, 2014 at 8:03 p.m.

Poongko is still horrible. He just never evolve. Same old shenanigans. In the 2nd match, the deejay player don't seem to know the matchup. He could have easily won that match too since poongko's poison is just as bad and makes the same uninformed decisions as his seth.

#43
Rising_Jaguar said on August 2, 2014 at 9:50 p.m.

felt like dj was mercying poongko in that seth match.
so many super opportunities but never took them :\

#44
thf24 said on August 2, 2014 at 11:16 p.m.

Seth isn't bad. He still has great tools, you just can't go braindead hyper rushdown anymore. Actually some of the better Ultra Seth games I've seen involve taking a lame, zoning-like approach. It'll be interesting to see how the character develops now that the stupid stuff is gone.

#45
DarkFlare07 said on August 2, 2014 at 11:58 p.m.

Well it would've been a good joke if you didnt add "san". But I guess its a good joke for the average person who cant tell the difference between asians.

#46
Maryokutai said on August 3, 2014 at 12:14 a.m.

Plus it should be 'quickly', not 'quick'. So let's just give Capcom a proper internet spanking as well while we're at it.

#47
Sasuga said on August 3, 2014 at 1:51 a.m.

It would be coming from the japanese player, seeing that he won. Not from Poonko.

#48
Lucius said on August 3, 2014 at 3:06 a.m.

hope capcom will up set on the next balance

#49
kevinkolkje said on August 3, 2014 at 3:51 a.m.

I put much work in him, yes he is bad but I like to play him

#50
kevinkolkje said on August 3, 2014 at 3:55 a.m.

with that sobat nerf I couldnt punish the crouching mk anymore that was very important for deejay :(

#51
Shonuff said on August 3, 2014 at 5:15 a.m.

Okay, this post might receive some flak but if so, then so be it.

This article is a waste of time. I don't know how this is "rare", aside from Poongko being a top player losing to a Ultra Street Fighter IV Dee-jay based on his stance in the tier list.

From the looks of things here, Seth didn't do as much damage as he once did in past SFIV iterations while Dee-jay just basically went in and exploited Seth's health.

All I've observed was a good game from both players and Poongko went back to choose a better character that possibly would either suit the match-up or just for kicks. Didn't see anything "salty" at all.

I mean my gawd, thanks for posting the videos and all but come on FGC; we have to get it together with our article writing here!

#52
starheroz said on August 3, 2014 at 5:58 a.m.

for all we Poongko prob beat him 10 times in a row and lost once with seth and it happen to be a replay match

#53
battlesong said on August 3, 2014 at 8:24 a.m.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the title of "san" used in Japanese? I'm pretty sure it is and that EH has Japanese translators to confirm this.

.....yet Poongko isn't Japanese so why is he a "san"? This is almost as bad as when EH tried to say the THAIger Uppercut Tournament (an Asian major) was held in TAIwan. WTF?

Then again, I don't speak Korean either so perhaps they use "san" in Korea too and I just never noticed when I went, lol!

#54
danny2times said on August 3, 2014 at 8:25 a.m.

Yeah that's my story too lol. Seth is so weak now, his wall jump nerf killed him. I also switched to poison.
I feel your pain poongko, no reason eryu should've got a health buff over Seth.

#55
Check895 said on August 3, 2014 at 9:37 a.m.

DJ way too OP !

#56
SpiderUppercut said on August 3, 2014 at 11:34 a.m.

When someone like Da_Knut says Dee Jay is bad, then Dee Jay is bad.
There is no argument.

You accept that statement without equivocation.
It IS the reason why hardly nobody bothers with Dee Jay.

It's the same reason all established Ryu players have now dropped Ryu in Ultra SF4.

Because Capcom is clueless when it comes to rebalancing.
In other words, both Dee Jay and Ryu are garbage in USF4.
Dee Jay more so.

#57
JanTheMan said on August 3, 2014 at 1:40 p.m.

Whoever made the banner puts it in the point of view of the Japanese player, ergo it is not complete wrong.

You don't have to be Japanese to be acknowledged with "-san" or other honorifics, as long as it's in a proper context (speaking Japanese with others, in a Japanese Foreign language class, etc.).

#58
Deneb said on August 4, 2014 at 12:25 a.m.

It's amazing that people are so salty about Louffy and his win with Rose but no one has made the correlation with Poongko and Seth where it's pretty legit. Seth was overpowered guess-nonsense and the moment he got nerfed, the Seth players don't seem to do nearly as well as before, proving that it was a broken character. Anyone hear from OnlineTony lately?

Oh! It's because he beat Daigo...with a stupidly overpowered character? Daigo has lost to plenty of legit tactics which is more notable, imo.

I tried Deejay for 10 games in ranked and won 8 of them. I don't even know his intracasies. If Deejay sucks, the game is balanced because he's clearly viable. He's boring and makes for slow as molasses matches but he isn't dirt. I can understand a Deejay mainer feeling that way though. It would only be a salty feeling from not liking him in Ultra though. I'm starting to think people want to spread the "deejay sucks" nonsense so they can play the "Dan" bs. When they win, it's amazing and skillful! When they lose...it's because Deejay sucks. I don't see Deejay mains doing any better with Guile and they often do worse than with Deejay. Like PR Balrog would call Fei a better Rog, it can be said that Guile is a better Deejay. I don't think you will see any Deejay mainers who complain try switching to Guile and winning more even though he is better. I'm really thinking the complaining is part of the enjoyment and the hope will be that winning and losing will be like Dan, no downside either way. If you're amazing with Guile but would prefer to use Deejay, then I could take the complaints more seriously. In a balanced game, being the worst is kind of meaningless. Switch up and prove Deejay is the problem.

The reason I don't think he's popular is because his playstyle can make for some boring and tedious matches. Most felt that Hugo was trash early on but that didn't stop people from trying him out and liking him. I think he's an obscure character online simply because even when you can win with him, matches never seem intense. That's my opinion anyway. Unpopular as it is.

#59
darkspirit138 said on August 4, 2014 at 4:35 a.m.

I think you're completely right about the logic thing - I think it's one of the main reasons why Cammy and potentially Akuma are considered as good as they are, and why the success of Mike Ross' Honda at EVO was so interesting. That said, I don't think the tools that Deejay has are particularly nuanced enough to extract better results than players have already discovered.

#60
Check895 said on August 4, 2014 at 6:24 a.m.

Go at EVO (or any other major) with DJ then, and show us, players who had DJ as main character, how bad we are and that DJ is viable/OP. Can't wait for DJ to win one tournament in 4 years.

#61
Yaksha said on August 4, 2014 at 8:11 a.m.

What people will never understand is that the pro players makes a character viable. No one would ever play Gen, Rose, Oni or Evil Ryu if there wasn't Xian, Louffy, Sanford Kelly or Sako. The reason a character never won a major is because he is not played by top player.

If tomorrow Dee Jay is played by one of the Gods (imagine, or any other guy that surface, maining him gor years) and if he wins a major, everybody will say : "ha I knew it, Dee Jay is broken, Kappa!"

Take your stick and TRAIN, rather than complain.

#62
realityisugly said on August 4, 2014 at 7:56 p.m.

Sorry, I can whoop a hundred newbies and scrubs with Deejay, it doesnt make him any more viable, and its not just theorycrafting either.

Your 1 day old Deejay beating 0pp scrubs is hardly evidence. Main him for half a year, go to a local tourney with people your skill level or above, and then tell us again that Deejay is viable.

Dem "I tried Deejay today and won a ton of games" arguments are getting old. If Xian and all the other top gamers think he is crap, he is most likely crap.

#63


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