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All Hadoukens could originally be ducked, faster inputs could have led to more damage and more - SF2 director talks interesting development facts

Posted by Steven 'Dreamking23' Chavez • October 28, 2013 at 11:13 a.m. PDT

Akira Nishitani, director of Final Fight and the Street Fighter 2 series, recently created a Twitter account on which he has been dropping plenty of interesting bits of info pertaining to the classic fighting franchise. Since these tweets are all in Japanese, a user by the name of felineki over on the Mugen Fighters Guild forums went about translating many of them for everyone to check out.

Nishitani divulges loads of trivia, interesting anecdotes, and even developer notes that discuss different game mechanics that didn't make it into the final build of the game.

There are some very interesting notes listed here, including a potential game mechanic that caused special moves to deal more damage if you physically inputted them quicker, Blanka's Rolling Attack being a charge down to forward command, and even the idea of a mysterious, old man appearing on the continue screen to give advice.

Below are just a few to get you started, but be sure to hit the jump for more interesting Street Fighter 2 info.

• That reminds me, in the proposal documents for SF2, it talks about special moves doing more damage the quicker you input the command, but we didn't end up implementing that.

• An SF2 anecdote. The original plans were for Hadoukens to be able to be ducked under. Because projectiles seemed like they'd be strong. But the artist drew a really great animation, so we left it as is. Of course projectiles did end up being strong, but I suppose the gameplay ended up being deep in it's own way?

• Remembered something else. We had given each character their own separate defense value, then somewhere along the line we discovered that those values weren't actually being reflected in the damage calculation, but ended up leaving it that way.

But I guess it felt more fair that way? Turned out alright in the end.

• We wanted to give every character in SF2 at least 2 special moves, but we were having trouble coming up with anything for Blanka aside from the electricity. As we were approaching the next deadline, the artist drew an animation of Blanka rolling and said that maybe it could be of some use. That was just what we needed, and it became the Rolling Attack.

• Rolling Attack's command was originally charge down, then forward. Because it was sort of a curl up, then suddenly spring forward type move. But it felt kind of off and was different from the rest of the commands, so we changed it.

• In SF2, sometimes Ryu takes absurdly high damage when dizzied. This is due to the fact that we experimented with characters taking twice as much damage when dizzy, and applied this flag to all dizzied animation frames, but forgot to remove it from one.

I'm pretty sure it was 1 frame out of a 4 frame sequence, so it should be possible to watch the animation once Ryu's dizzied and intentionally aim for that high damage.

• At one point in SF2's development we wondered whether we should let the player get up faster from a knockdown by spinning the joystick. But we wanted wakeup pressure to be consistent so we decided not to. Because you could do that in Final Fight, everyone tried spinning the joystick in SF2 at first. They were doing it at the location test, too.

• The red Hadoukens in the first SF2 weren't actually a glitch, they were an intentional easter egg put in by the programmers. But I couldn't have imagined that would eventually become the Shakunetsu Hadouken.

• That reminds me, for the hints that appear on SF2's continue screen we considered having a mysterious old man appear as an advice character.

We hadn't decided on a look for him. I'm pretty sure all there was was a little smiley face-like thing I drew on the proposal documents.

Head to the Mugen Fighters Guild forum for even more of Nishitani's tweets, and give him a follow on Twitter if you can read the language.

Comments

jme said on October 28, 2013 at 11:23 a.m.

If the REALLY wanted Blanka ball to be Down charge forward it could've been like Vega's Flash kick.

#1
bigjbilly said on October 28, 2013 at 11:36 a.m.

Fun tidbits. Cool. The speed of the input for damage is kind of an interesting concept.

#2
Existent said on October 28, 2013 at 11:37 a.m.

"...wanted wakeup pressure to be consistent..."
Delayed wakeup deconfirmed.

#3
NumbahHwan said on October 28, 2013 at 11:39 a.m.

Cooba chooba

#4
Taizuku said on October 28, 2013 at 11:40 a.m.

Speed of input for damage kind of sounds like a good idea.

#5
jme said on October 28, 2013 at 11:43 a.m.

Then what would be the point of doing strong and Fierce SPD when you can input jab SPD rally quick for maximum range AND damage?

#6
CRAYONSEED said on October 28, 2013 at 11:47 a.m.

Sounds like they were really thinking outside of what fighting games "are" because they had no template. Would love to see Capcom or Namco try to think this way again with a brand new series.

Love SF and Tekken, but I'd like to see something new, too.

#7
BornFreeEH said on October 28, 2013 at 11:52 a.m.

"Turned out alright in the end."

Understatement of the year.

#8
Rahavic said on October 28, 2013 at 11:54 a.m.

Sounds like fireballs were gonna be kinda like EWGF, except without the different animation and just more damage.

Hope this gets put into Tekken X SF.

#9
BornFreeEH said on October 28, 2013 at 11:57 a.m.

"That reminds me, for the hints that appear on SF2's continue screen we considered having a mysterious old man appear as an advice character."

I genuinely thought I saw this in Rainbow Edition - like a flash of an image of an old man. I thought it was Sheng Long.....before I found out what Sheng Long meant....

#10
doublef said on October 28, 2013 at 12:03 p.m.

If they made hadokens duckable, I think Ryu and Ken would've been low tier. The match flow would've also become a little MK-like, with walk-duck walk-duck being your way in. Could you imagine Zangief being able to walk-duck-walk-SPD? Or Vega / Sim / Deejay justdoing duck-slide all day?

#11
sarif2soon said on October 28, 2013 at 12:13 p.m.

Are you okay there, buddy?

#12
breveglieri said on October 28, 2013 at 12:15 p.m.

In SF2:WW neither Zangief nor Dhalsim can duck under Sagat's high Tiger Shot

#13
Anon said on October 28, 2013 at 12:44 p.m.

"The red Hadoukens in the first SF2 weren't actually a glitch, they were an intentional easter egg put in by the programmers"

For DECADES people said this was a glitch. That never made sense to me since what bug would cause only a very specific sprite to be colored red? The truth finally comes out.

#14
Taizuku said on October 28, 2013 at 12:46 p.m.

Hence "kind of"

#15
KiddDaBeauty said on October 28, 2013 at 12:46 p.m.

Cool how this confirms that in WW, Ken is better than Ryu. There -is- a difference between them! =)

#16
analogos said on October 28, 2013 at 12:48 p.m.

there wouldn't be; that's kind of the point. surely you've heard of the original SF1 cabinets that had one pressure sensitive punch and kick button and how hard you hit the buttons determined whether or not you got weak, medium or strong? similar principle.

#17
analogos said on October 28, 2013 at 12:49 p.m.

loads of games have palette-related glitches.

#18
jme said on October 28, 2013 at 12:54 p.m.

Thats a dumb control scheme though. Much simpler to have 4-6 button control scheme.

#19
Slash said on October 28, 2013 at 1:55 p.m.

Mysterious advice-giving old man = 5th character for USF4

#20
BipolarTroll said on October 28, 2013 at 2:24 p.m.

SF2 trivia and how everything eventually worked out. Gotta love his attitude: "Yeah, it seemed " " but it worked out...i guess?."

#21
gammabolt17 said on October 28, 2013 at 2:47 p.m.

I'm sure you've probably heard the rumor somewhere already, but if it's right, the 5th character will be awesome and somewhat bittersweet at the same time. I'll PM anyone who hasn't heard or not but it's probably nothing so maybe not a big deal.

EDIT: Just noticed your name. YOU should be the 5th character!!!!! Complete with axe handle move that does like 60% damage lol

#22
FlynnChop said on October 28, 2013 at 3:21 p.m.

Man, I miss how Blanka used to not be a joke character. Remember SF2? Yeah. Good times. That Blanka has been dead for a decade and it stinks.

#23
Darklurkr23 said on October 28, 2013 at 3:42 p.m.

I wish they would get rid of Charge and make it all qcf and z motion.

#24
courte said on October 28, 2013 at 3:43 p.m.

making a new fighter based off of these notes
would be the most epic undertaking of the decade

#25
dorayaki said on October 28, 2013 at 3:47 p.m.

They don't make 'em like they used to. SF2 ftw.

#26
gammabolt17 said on October 28, 2013 at 3:56 p.m.

I remember SF2 WW Blanka would lose a FVCKTON of health if you knocked him out of balls. 2 F. SRKs would destroy him.

#27
jimk23 said on October 28, 2013 at 4:05 p.m.

I haven't! Please PM me!

#28
Super_Honda said on October 28, 2013 at 4:19 p.m.

Some interesting insights. The Hadouken part is interesting because in the first version of SF2, both hadoukens of Ryus and Kens (they are identical in World Warrior (WW), apart from appearance) had slow recovery and wasn't very strong as a whole. In fact, in WW, both of them were low tier and if Capcom did decide that players can duck under their fireball, Ryu and Ken would've been even worse than they are right now. But I'm sure Capcom would've come up with another alternative. However, in later editions, both Ryu and Ken became so strong and their fireball game improved dramatically.

Blanka's rolling attack in WW is a HIGH risk move: you execute it and if your opponent counters it with a good move, you take big damage. I agree with the comment above about Blanka: back in SF2, when I look at the portrait of Blanka, he means business. But his comment about 'seeing you in action is a joke' ended up being ironic because later on, Blanka became a joke character. The knockdown recovery appeared later on in main SF games, but for the SF2 development team to come up with an idea of fast recovery at that time is impressive. But it's good that it didn't make it in SF2 because in the end, SF2 became a game where positioning is pretty much everything, even in later SF games.

The truth about Red fireball has finally been confirmed by the man himself and about an old-man giving advice during continue screen: I'm sure in the Japanese version of SSF2T, instead of having an old man giving advice, during the continue screen, depending on a character, the game gave players some advice on certain things that can help them. Anyway, in the end, SF2 simply dominated the gaming world during that time and it may possibly never be matched by any fighting game.

#29
madmonk25 said on October 28, 2013 at 5:43 p.m.

If im not mistaken i think Ryu and Ken were considered the worst characters in WW. The tier list was basically the select screen in reverse : Guile, Sim, the middle 4 in no particular order, then Ryu/Ken.

#30
Gerk said on October 28, 2013 at 6:10 p.m.

Not to split hairs, but WW Ryu/Ken had one difference, and that was how far their kick throw took the opponent.

This, IMO, made Ken better hands-down.

#31
GirlsOfGaming said on October 28, 2013 at 6:47 p.m.

every character had their own defense value? were they talking numbers or points or something? a move? what?

#32
OhYouDontSayThat said on October 28, 2013 at 8:14 p.m.

that's why i love eventhubs: just when u think it's all hot chick cosplay (keep it coming btw)they hit u with some great info like this! thanks EH

#33
gammabolt17 said on October 28, 2013 at 9 p.m.

Yep. Not only would Ken roll you to the corner, it was one of the moves that had that lovely ass screen shaking effect that looked so awesome when you ended matches with it. The effect worked best when finishing a match with Guile's backbreaker imo. Man that game made me mark out so much.

#34
Eye_of_Orochi said on October 28, 2013 at 9:46 p.m.

Yesss I loved that screen shaking effect. It was even better if there was a breakable object at the end of the screen. Just added more spice to the K.O. (with the added bonus of making your opponent a little more angry)

#35
Anon said on October 28, 2013 at 11:06 p.m.

Yeah, but the palette for only one of the sprites (fireball) and only one of the characters throwing them (Ryu and not Ken)? If it was a real bug it would most likely manifest itself in other ways too, and that's what never made sense to me.

#36


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