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Juju officially removed from Skullgirls due to confidentiality agreement breach

Posted by Steven 'Dreamking23' Chavez • May 26, 2013 at 7:17 p.m. PDT
Juju officially removed from Skullgirls due to confidentiality agreement breach Juju was a Skullgirls character that was created by Lab Zero for the DLC character votes based off of suggestions from a fan named Ceemcneil. To avoid any legal issues, the company tried for some time to acquire the full rights to Juju and make her an option for fans to vote on during the polls.

The legal matters had since been resolved and things were looking up for the sniping assistant of Parasoul. Unfortunately, a confidentially agreement was recently breached by Ceemcneil and as a result, Juju will no longer be a part of Skullgirls.

Below is an official statement from Ravidrath over at Lab Zero games on the matter.

There was a confidentiality agreement in the contract Mr. McNeil signed, so I'm extremely disappointed that after working for a few months to get this resolved, the creation of this thread has ended any possibility of using Juju in the future.

We tried to get this resolved favorably despite continued disruptive and unprofessional conduct on Mr. McNeil's part, often against our own better judgment. His behavior in the Skullgirls community has made Juju an extremely divisive topic within Lab Zero and I soldiered ahead because I felt it was the right thing to do. But with this breach of confidence, none of that matters now.

To say that I am disappointed in this outcome would be an understatement.

This decision is final - sorry to all of Juju's fans, but I can't afford to waste any more of Lab Zero's time and money pursuing this.

For a more in-depth description of how Juju's creation and demise came about, check out this thread on the Skullheart forum.

Tip sent anonymously.

Comments

Rahavic said on May 26, 2013 at 7:22 p.m.

(This comment was removed by a moderator.)

#1
Snow said on May 26, 2013 at 7:27 p.m.

This guy ends every sentence with "lol" or a variation thereof. No wonder he lacked the for thought to actually read the godamn contract he signed.

They should have killed her off like Mike wanted to when the voting started.

Now that she's gone though if Alex wants he can design a new more interesting Sniper as a replacement. The only thing that will be missed will be Jujus hair.

Just hope that when they decide to kill her off in Skull Girls 2 or in another characters DLC story mode they take a moment or two to piss on this dumbass a little.

So much time and effort to obtain the rights to a character spawned from a single unintelligible sentence that amounted to "asian sniper girl with a talking gun"...

#2
ShakeTheWorm said on May 26, 2013 at 7:27 p.m.

Too bad, I love sniper charaters in fighting game. Juju was really awesome.

#3
Oroku_Saki said on May 26, 2013 at 7:29 p.m.

Juju......the black magic sniper.
I guess her rifle must have talked her to death.
>_>

#4
Snow said on May 26, 2013 at 7:31 p.m.

Oh and here's the important thread that started(and ended) all this:
http://skullgirls.com/forums/forums/i...

#5
godfist314 said on May 26, 2013 at 7:33 p.m.

Secrets don't stay secrets forever. Copyrights don't last forever. It's human nature.

#6
Existent said on May 26, 2013 at 7:59 p.m.

@6
That Cee guy doesn't seem like the brightest bulb on the tree.

#7
Snow said on May 26, 2013 at 8:05 p.m.

So according to this Dime_X guy; people who have such minor contributions to something such as "She should be an asian with a talking gun" deserve compensation.
If we're gunna get vague like that I guess every shark attack movie owes Spielberg money because of Jaws because they share it's idea. That's not how IP works bucko.

And I'm sure after two months of legal hell and cash thrown at this they where incredibly eager to just get, then promptly drop Juju.

No, if this bozo can't abide by something as simple as an NDA in the contract, then any other clauses and stipulations would most likely be promptly ignored too.

They never should have gone down this road to start with. Five minutes of sitting down with the guy would have told them he was an illiterate spaz incapable of following even the simplest instructions.

#8
SolxBaiken said on May 26, 2013 at 8:10 p.m.

Why is it that I've never seen or heard of this character until just now?

Just re-tool and move on I suppose. Pull a Divekick and just called her Redacted or something lol.

#9
Otter_of_Death said on May 26, 2013 at 8:15 p.m.

I don't know why Ceemcneil couldn't have just been happy a developer wanted to use his idea at all (I say "idea" because Ceemcneil didn't "create" squat).

Frankly, I'm surprised Lab Zero didn't say "Not worth it" at square one. Maybe this is a blessing in disguise. It's better that things went awry now then after the character actually became integrated into the franchise.

#10
OhYouDontSayThat said on May 26, 2013 at 8:17 p.m.

looks like Juju got jewjew'd.

#11
Him said on May 26, 2013 at 8:17 p.m.

That character missed my vote because I forgot about her. A simple fix would be; make a new character with a sniping rifle. Problem solved. Juju and the problems surrounding her are completely unimportant

#12
Tewind said on May 26, 2013 at 8:18 p.m.

Well, that's too bad. Seeing ideas in which you put love, time and money to develop go to waste is really sad.

Still, maybe they shouldn't have tried to make a contract with someone like this guy in the first place. I mean, seeing the original sentence that ended spawning Juju should have given them a hunch about how it was going to end, and talking with the guy for five minutes would have finished convincing them.

I hope Lab Zero is not too mad about it, but they sure can be pissed off.

And as a more non-objective comment, I'll just say : That Cee guy is an idiot.

#13
shades_of_grey said on May 26, 2013 at 8:22 p.m.

As tempting as it is, I don't fault this Cee guy for his ignorance regarding the NDA. Some people know very little about business. What's more troubling is that his response to all of this amounts to "Oh well lol haha". Defense mechanism or not, man up and take responsibility for your mistake. There was a lot of time and money wasted here, from what I understand.

#14
Sanox said on May 26, 2013 at 8:24 p.m.

wow this Ceemcneil guy is a huuuuuuuge idiot.

if a character based on my idea would be considered to be in the game or hell actually get created i would be the happiest person ever.

#15
Crazcar said on May 26, 2013 at 8:31 p.m.

Skimmed through the initial thread and I'm amazed at how unprofessional, among other things, that guy is. While I didn't love the character, I didn't dislike her either, so I'm a bit sad she's "gone".

I would like to see if they can work around all this by just changing her name and redesigning her sniper rifle. Too much damn work went into getting her, and to have it be in vain soon after signing an agreement, just rework her so the guy gets 0 rights. And perhaps, if she ever gets her own story mode in SG2/3, make reference to 'that' guy in a negative fashion.

#16
Mabans said on May 26, 2013 at 8:39 p.m.

I wanna to who the guy was who said "Lets follow a forum monster's idea for a character, this should work out smoothly." Most of these people act like morons on forums, add on to the delusion of everyone online that "as long as you make money" nothing else matters as if working with the person plays no role into it is make this a perfect disaster. Sorry they have to put up with that nonsense. CeeMcNiel is a moron..

#17
Otter_of_Death said on May 26, 2013 at 8:43 p.m.

@17

I wouldn't even do that. Any negative reference at best would just be feeding a troll on a grand scale (or at worst could potentially cause more legal problems for Lab Zero).

They have so many character ideas that I don't even see the need for a sniper character to ever exist. With all the chaos this situation has stirred, it would be impossible to create a sniper that didn't somehow reference this whole ugly situation (no matter how unintentional).

#18
Ninjagoon said on May 26, 2013 at 8:51 p.m.

Ok so what I understand after reading the post and the thread is that the guy created a thread to discuss the character he (kinda) help create. He then wanted to share the good news with everyone when all of the legal stuff went through. And because he shared such news it breached the contract and JuJu got scrapped. Correct?

#19
Otter_of_Death said on May 26, 2013 at 8:54 p.m.

Yep.

#20
Snow said on May 26, 2013 at 8:57 p.m.

@#20

More or less yes. He pissed away the contract Lab Zero gave him out of the goodness of their heart since he didn't really do anything to start with, by voiding the NDA of the contract and by proxy the rest of it.
If you can't trust someone to keep their mouth shut for a few days, you can't trust them for anything.

Keep in mind we don't know what else the contract detailed, but this is pretty much like being signed onto a record label and then having a bit that says "Hey don't have any drunken coke orgies." then that person immediately goes to the papers and tells them about this totally sweet drunken coke orgy he just had.

#21
Ninjagoon said on May 26, 2013 at 9:01 p.m.

And it seems like everyone is bashing him without actually letting him know what he did wrong. The guy obviously doesn't understand what he did or how bad of a mistake he made.

#22
Snow said on May 26, 2013 at 9:04 p.m.

He would have known what he did wrong if he actually read the godamn contract he signed.

#23
Ermapume said on May 26, 2013 at 9:13 p.m.

@12 Hey-oooh!

#24
chrismcandless said on May 26, 2013 at 9:30 p.m.

a mediocre character won't make it into a mediocre game? oh how will i go on?

#25
Rahavic said on May 26, 2013 at 9:40 p.m.

This entire article should be removed by moderator.

#26
Donald_K_Bahls said on May 26, 2013 at 9:53 p.m.

Fgc is going down a crappy road. 1) Why would they use an idea that's not from the studio? 2) If they were going to use his idea, why not just sign his character into an "in perpetuity" buttfudge contract? 3) Why does anyone care about this foolishness?

#27
JustSTFU said on May 26, 2013 at 10:02 p.m.

Why do they have to give in to this idiot?
First you can't copyright an idea, let along it's an idea spoken on their forums which is meant to give suggestions.

Or maybe they can get some cash from this idiot's "breach of confidence"? Hope that's the case cuz this Ceemcneil guy is an idiot trying to ask for money for an one lined idea to begin with anyway.

#28
kara said on May 26, 2013 at 10:38 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#29
FreddieDigital said on May 27, 2013 at midnight

The reason why they just don't make some minimal changes to Juju and then put the character in the game is because then this Ceemcneil guy will claim they're stealing his idea. Exactly the issue they want to avoid, even if Lab Zero did most of the work toward designing the character.

Lab Zero is doing the right thing, if they want to avoid all the legal issues they have to scrap the character all together and avoid anything to do with Juju. Sad, but it's not worth the trouble.

#30
Otter_of_Death said on May 27, 2013 at 12:08 a.m.

@28

Why do we care? Because this would have been one of the rare instances of a fan-inspired character making it onto an FG roster.

But you knew that. Which leaves me wondering why you would ask that question in the first place.

#31
Siryoudroppedyourcombo said on May 27, 2013 at 12:25 a.m.

Fairly common footage of a member of the Skullgirls community acting like a body-pillow hugging autist.

#32
suicidali said on May 27, 2013 at 1:42 a.m.

It's a shame that this whole Juju debacle had to end like this, I personally liked her character design...
At least it makes this image even more appropriate:
http://tinyurl.com/ogcbgvz

#33
Mecha_G said on May 27, 2013 at 2:39 a.m.

My first thought was "who the heck is Juju?"

Then I read up on her and thought, "This guy is an idiot". Who knew being a dick on the Internet had real-world consequences?

I've got an idea: Parasoul gets a new sniper and mentions the last one was killed/executed for running her mouth off. New sniper gets designated with the old one's number.

#34
doomOVER9000 said on May 27, 2013 at 4:56 a.m.

(This user was banned.)

#35
Guybrush20X6 said on May 27, 2013 at 5:32 a.m.

And this is the dark side of fan input.

I hope they keep a hold of the Sniper idea

#36
Zombie4u said on May 27, 2013 at 5:36 a.m.

Mr.Cee McNeil really blew what could have been a pretty neat opportunity with some lame behavior.

#37
ChunLi said on May 27, 2013 at 5:39 a.m.

All he needed to do was shut the h3ll up, this is why we can't have nice things.

Ironic that may favorite number is 13, I was really looking forward to using a Parasoul/Juju team because I just can't seem to play anyone else besides Parasoul in this game.

I hope that guy burns, what a waste.

Juju will be added to one of the names I'll always remember for Memorial Day.

RIP Soldier, you served your country well.

#38
Kawalorn said on May 27, 2013 at 5:50 a.m.

#36 So you see a smilar design and you imidietly yell "nazi"? Who's racist here? :P

#39
Echo01 said on May 27, 2013 at 6:14 a.m.

Love SG, but why is this even an article?

#40
FreelanceButler said on May 27, 2013 at 6:35 a.m.

@41
Because all the characters in the fan vote are potentially going to be in any Skullgirls sequels. So now we know why Juju ain't gonna be one of 'em.

#41
SolxBaiken said on May 27, 2013 at 7:23 a.m.

OK, everyone needs to stop acting like this was a 1-sided debacle; Lab Zero is just as guilty as the "creator".

He may have shaky claims to the character but if you're not going to be the least bit subtle about using someone else idea, then you have to understand the ramifications of such actions. This is a live-and-learn lesson for Lab Zero and only makes them stronger that they learned it early on, especially if they have even the faintest hopes of continuing on.

Remember that contest Capcom had for Darkstalkers where people could submit in their own creations? Know why Capcom could use ANY of those designs [not just the winners] in a future game without lash back? Because in the rules and agreements which you wholly accept the minute you make a submission, it states you have no claim to your design the minute you hand it over, win or lose. If Lab Zero ever wants to use fan input [and who would? fans are idiots, universally~] they could, should, and would need to use such a similar process, which is what all contests involving submissions of this nature are about.

That Cee guy missed out on laying claim to a character is something that's moderately popular, his lost, NOT the userbase's as a whole though. He only [loosely] lays claim to the name "Juju". The gameplay concept is still theirs, hell the design is still technically theirs [but I guess they can edit it to whatever ends they feel] so this character is not "dead". Cee doesn't own the rights to snipers, Asians, women, or even talking weapons :V

Some guy just lost his e-fame, let's move on, this should have never been a big issue in the first place [especially since she wouldn't have won the fan votes, and she hasn't even appeared in-game and was only mentioned in unreleased patches].

So goodbye character with a terrible name, and hello whatever No. 13 may become.

#42
kinoslayer said on May 27, 2013 at 7:31 a.m.
#43
Kenshiro said on May 27, 2013 at 8:42 a.m.

@26
I don't know, troll another article like a jackass?

@36
It's the way their militia dresses, but nothing screams Nazi. Perhaps you're just really ignorant.

#44
SolxBaiken said on May 27, 2013 at 8:50 a.m.

@ #45

Actually, for a lack of a better word, you seem to be a bit "ignorant".

It's well known that Alex Ahad, lead artist/creator, based the Canopy Nation's militia on Nazi/World War II paraphernalia. Even down to the red arm band that houses an umbrella instead of the infamous swastika.

Not saying that I disapprove of his design influences, but they are definitely there.

#45
TrishThreesome said on May 27, 2013 at 9 a.m.

Why was #1 comment from Rahavic censored? He's a regular fighting game player that goes to tourneys, not a spammer that spams ads for random products.

Can anyone tell me what Rahavic said? I'm 100% it was not advertising spam.

#46
cikame said on May 27, 2013 at 9:26 a.m.

So because he announced the character before the company was ready, there won't be a character?
That seems abit... premature... why not just continue like nothing happened?

#47
GodPride said on May 27, 2013 at 9:40 a.m.

Lol just make another sniper loli and call her Lulu.

#48
Kenshiro said on May 27, 2013 at 9:53 a.m.

@46

Right which is why Parasoul dress like Hitler >_>. I mean they are both leaders of their respective armies.

The Germans aren't the only ones with armbands dingus.

#49
Kenshiro said on May 27, 2013 at 9:55 a.m.

Actually after reading your comment on the 43rd post you seem to be confused about alot of things.

I won't waste the type face enlightening your trifling ass.

#50
PsychoPowerJ said on May 27, 2013 at 9:57 a.m.

@ #48

They can't. The contract has been voided, and the breach in particular is on the internet. Cee has already shown he'll take advantage of anything and doesn't have the integrity to see things through even if they try again.

#51
Darc_Requiem said on May 27, 2013 at 9:57 a.m.

@48

He signed a NDA. Then broke the NDA. Since he broke the contract, the character is kaput.

#52
GodPride said on May 27, 2013 at 10:07 a.m.

@Kenshiro

I've always assumed that the Egret Militia was inspired by the infamous Third Reich and that SF's Bison was too inspired by Nazi Germany.

#53
SolxBaiken said on May 27, 2013 at 10:18 a.m.

@ #54

You don't have to assume either of those, because they're both accurate; Alex Ahad has pretty much said that Nazi/World War II inspired the Canopy Soldiers, and there is a reason Bison is a dictator.

Nazis have inspired all sorts of things in fiction, especially antagonist because well, "no one can hate you for hating on Nazis" logic. This isn't to say the Egrets are "bad guys" but their inspiration definitely pools from that.

It's like thinking the Red Ribbon army from Dragonall wasn't inspired by communist nations (Nazi, Russians, and the Chinese) I mean they even had General Blue who was the embodiment of Hitler's "perfect Aryan race". Blue eyes, blonde hair, which those qualities themselves are pretty rare in that universe.

I'm not saying Alex Ahad is bad or endorses Nazis, he just used them as inspiration. Nothing more, nothing less.

#54
JdotSweapA said on May 27, 2013 at 10:35 a.m.

ugh...is it really that hard to just keep your mouth shut for a lil while? =_=

#55
SkllXMnky said on May 27, 2013 at 10:41 a.m.

Wait, so that means Parasoul won't make a Golgo 13 reference anymore? Sorry, I don't know who this Juju girl was.

@34 Haha nice.

#56
xanderglz said on May 27, 2013 at 11:04 a.m.

(This user was banned.)

#57
learis1 said on May 27, 2013 at 11:23 a.m.

ceemcneil should have hired Jenny McNeil, the single female lawyer.

#58
SolxBaiken said on May 27, 2013 at 11:26 a.m.

@ #58

I understand your points, but also feel like you may be misinterpreting my own statements. To put it simply: this ["Juju"] should never have gotten to this point.

The minute this Cee McNeil began laying claims to the character her plug should've been pulled and she should've been reworked [see: K9999 becoming Nameless in King of Fighter 2002: Unlimited Match].

Using outside [of the company] ideas is always dangerous, they should've tried to approach the guy about using the idea beforehand (before an illustration was tied to it) or just simply not have called her "Juju" in the first place (since no prior design of her existed in the first place).

Also let me be clear, I'm not trying to support one side over the other; I think Cee McNeil is an incompetent moron. I'm simply pointing out the faults in Lab Zero's approach to this and how they should pursue future avenues if they ever wish to in the future (hence why I brought up Capcom's Darkstalkers fan design contest and what it entailed).

Trust me, Lab Zero doesn't see the community or fan based in Cee McNeil, they just see a mistake that they've undoubtedly learned from.

#59
Teohkaka said on May 27, 2013 at 11:38 a.m.

This is the thread where you can find details of the matter :

http://skullgirls.com/forums/forums/i...

From what I gathered the full extent of Ceemcneil's input , was making a passing remark/comment on the Skullgirls face book along the lines of :

"Parasoul's sniper should be a chinese assasin called Juju with a talking sniper rifle."

That's all he said .... it's not like he drew anything or designed any movesets. He said a sentence and now he thinks he owns a character and is entitled royalities or something ...lol... it's not like he had existing works or drawings of the character himself. He just happened to say something on a facebook page and the creators took inspiration from those words. It's like if someone claimed to copyright a meme or something , nonsense.

I hope they keep her visual design at least and just change her name, because that is Lab zeros hard work,but of course I'm not too hopeful.

Which is a shame because it was one of the few designs out of the long list of would-be-DLC characters I liked alot.

#60
xanderglz said on May 27, 2013 at 12:34 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#61
EvilRick said on May 27, 2013 at 12:35 p.m.

And this, Lab Zeros is why to stick to your developement team to bring up new stuff and only "take in consideration" fan's sugestions.

Don't send contracts to everyone who comes up with a "nice idea". Specially when those people are kids who had no profecionalism, experience or actually any risponsible attitude towards the values behind a contract.

#62
TorTorVega said on May 27, 2013 at 2:26 p.m.

Dude was naive. Lab Zero clearly didn't even like the guy, clearly didn't make sure he understood the contract, and they're just as much at fault as he is. It sounds like a lot of the team were hoping for something like this to happen.

#63
xanderglz said on May 27, 2013 at 3:02 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#64
Hayabusa_San said on May 27, 2013 at 4:22 p.m.

Stupid Cee McNeil is stupid.

What a freaking opportunity washed down the drain because the guy doesn't have a brain. Or most likely is a 12 year old boy.

I don't think the character is SUPERAWESOME (caps for fun sarcasm), but could have been something interesting for the game.

#65
Blackhoel said on May 27, 2013 at 7:38 p.m.

I think we can all give Ono some credit now for never having actually breached confidentiality agreement by trolling his contract the right way. McNeil could have said 'Take the shot' or some sort of teaser by not blowing anything up.

#66
TorTorVega said on May 27, 2013 at 9:43 p.m.

#65 Gladly, just read the official statement. It's linked directly in the news post. :)

#67
Zenman said on May 28, 2013 at 2:07 a.m.

I don't really care about the character, but reading the thread was really entertaining. This ceemcneil guy comes off as borderline retarded.

#68
BumblebeeCody said on May 28, 2013 at 4:48 a.m.

Break the NDA, oh well. Seems fair on Lab Zero

#69
xShonuffx said on May 28, 2013 at 9:03 p.m.

First rule when making a Contract Agreement?

READ THE CONTRACT!!!

#70


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