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Ryan Hart's Sagat change suggestions for Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition v2012 update

Posted by Steven 'Dreamking23' Chavez • March 27, 2013 at 12:32 p.m. PDT
Ryan Hart's Sagat change suggestions for Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition v2012 update Since the announcement of the Street Fighter 4 series update, Capcom has requested that players and fans suggest balance changes for Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition v2012. Esteemed Sagat player WW|Ryan "Prodigal Son" Hart wrote up a blog post detailing some of the changes he feels would improve the character.

Ryan provides some very interesting changes and backs each one up with reasoning as to how and why they would benefit Sagat greatly. Check out a snip from his blog below.

F+HK should be an untechable knockdown:

Although Sagat isn't a setup character it's clear that he needs to be in order to stand up in this game looking at the current characters that sit on the top of the throne in majors. Sagat needs a mid-screen scenario where he can create setups.

Currently without two bars, it's very difficult to create a valuable mixup and this makes him less effective against characters who thrive in mid-screen battle or who can corner Sagat easily.

It wouldn't be broken either as he would more or less only be able to land a forward HK from a Tiger Uppercut, FADC which requires two bars or an opponent's jump in which is very hard to react to, so he wouldn't have many opportunities to use it but when he did there would be more threat to fighting him in mid-screen.

When Angry Scar stops the screen, Sagat should be able to block instantly after the animation:

For example he could bait a wake up Shoryu then block it by using the Scar to mess up the timing so that the FADC doesn't come out as they have already done the input when the screen stopped.

This costs a meter so it wouldn't be over powered. This would at least for stupidly ambiguous setups and unblockables if he was able to block instantly as it would mess up the opponents timing but at the cost of meter.

These are only a couple of Ryan's change suggestions so be sure to check out his blog post over on Western Wolves to see the rest.

Via Ryan Hart's Twitter.

Comments

Hexelf said on March 27, 2013 at 12:36 p.m.

These suggestions seem crazy at first but I like these arguments.

#1
Drifter said on March 27, 2013 at 12:39 p.m.

Give Sagat a 3rd ultra and nerf his damage on his H shoryuken.

#2
t0fu said on March 27, 2013 at 12:40 p.m.

i like the scar idea, but wouldn't it essentially give him the ability to make himself pretty much safe at any moment at the cost of one bar? seems slightly broken

#3
spectaa said on March 27, 2013 at 12:43 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#4
breveglieri said on March 27, 2013 at 12:46 p.m.

The problem with some of the suggestions I've been reading is that they are based in a game where unblockables are everywhere, so they tend to suggest changes to the characters to "fight against" unblockables.

I think that the first thing they should do in a new version is eliminate the possibility for unblockables to exist, and only then start to work on the tweaks for the rest of the engine and for the characters.

#5
Tiso said on March 27, 2013 at 12:54 p.m.

I bet he has a suggestion to madcatz too.

Kappa

#6
NvhA said on March 27, 2013 at 1 p.m.

I like the angry scar idea, but make it throwable just like Viper's seismo feint.

#7
Ryu_Apprentice said on March 27, 2013 at 1:01 p.m.

point 2 is broken, so its like angry scar: if they block keep on attacking, if they shoryu block and punish. lmao

#8
RawVoltage said on March 27, 2013 at 1:08 p.m.

I agree with these suggestions.

#9
gaffel123 said on March 27, 2013 at 1:09 p.m.

ryan seem to suggest changes for sagat so that he can go up against the current top tier characters of AE v2012. Sagat doesnt need many buffs, other top tier characters need nerfs. This isnt AE v2014-sagat edition

#10
CrossRhythm said on March 27, 2013 at 1:10 p.m.

Is it me or is every article featuring Ryan about him cryin'?

#11
animelover1808 said on March 27, 2013 at 1:14 p.m.

I would just like to throw in UltraDavid's suggestion -2 on ex tiger knee. Just for zangief punish with U1 :P

#12
SpicyBurrito said on March 27, 2013 at 1:15 p.m.

Angry scar should NOT receive any special properties. Anything that messes with the game's rhythm is overpowered. He's requesting an across the board change that messes with a opponent's execution.

No other character in the game has that kind of move.

#13
Psycho said on March 27, 2013 at 1:16 p.m.

There's no doubt unblockables will be fixed. Isn't that what started this whole v2013 thing? the unblockables?

#14
darkdragon88 said on March 27, 2013 at 1:33 p.m.

Tigers should fly out from his knees and uppercuts

#15
Quebert69 said on March 27, 2013 at 1:34 p.m.

Angry Scar shouldn't have recovery. When it was first released and announced it was stated that it wouldn't have recovery, it would just be a cool animation and a power-up. That's it. The fact that it actually HAS 13 frames of recovery (if i'm not mistaken, don't quote me) is insane.

#16
sarif2soon said on March 27, 2013 at 1:37 p.m.

i think dieminion made a change list for guile.

#17
logic_boi said on March 27, 2013 at 1:52 p.m.

One of the better suggestions w/reasoning put out there, even amongst top players. He gets a lot of slack, but he's one of the most knowledgeable.

#18
xanderglz said on March 27, 2013 at 1:54 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#19
JIHADJOE said on March 27, 2013 at 1:59 p.m.

#PUT_SAGAT_IN_TOP_TIER

#20
soggytoast said on March 27, 2013 at 2 p.m.

I like the suggestion of the untechable knockdown. I think that's totally fair when compared to the capabilities of other characters. And the quick rise after getting hit with it is an obvious choice because it leaves Sagat without much to do.

The Angry Scar change is completely broken though. By spending one bar, Sagat would be able to see exactly what is happening on his wakeup and then react appropriately. If the screen stop from Angry Scar shows that they committed to any move, you can just mash DP or worse ultra and punish them for it. At worst you are guaranteed to block their mixup. This change would make Sagat completely untouchable on wakeup.

#21
MetallicA said on March 27, 2013 at 2:08 p.m.

Angry Scar is a powerup, not something to mess your opponent's momentum, cry moar Ryan.

#22
Necreon said on March 27, 2013 at 2:13 p.m.

I agree with the Angry Scar suggestion, but the other... hell no. Sagat needs nothing. Ryan compares him to the top of the tier list forgeting that there is also a mid and a bottom part of this list, whatever CAPCOM changes, there always will be. Against all those characters already being in the same tier with Sagat or lower (hell even higher) and having trouble with this matchup, buffing Sagat futher is incredibly unfair because Sagat actually HAS everything he needs to play the way Sagat should be played. If Ryan can't accept that, well, it's time to change character and learn a new one instead of chaning THE character making him a new one.

#23
devilcuco said on March 27, 2013 at 2:15 p.m.

with all my respect to ryan. think outside the box, if angry scart let u block, it will let you reversal with tu or ultra. this will be op as hell. dont you think?

#24
samuraix025 said on March 27, 2013 at 2:35 p.m.

Ryan must want sagat to become a charge charater thats the only way vortect sngry scar sagat would be fair

#25
100thMonkey said on March 27, 2013 at 2:46 p.m.

He has good ideas but too many, especially as they are all buffs, and not one nerf. Angry scar idea does sound potentially gamebreaking.

#26
Deckard_Cain said on March 27, 2013 at 3:48 p.m.

How about we just give Sagat cancellable S.LK again and call it a day. There we go.

#27
Mx_Paladin said on March 27, 2013 at 3:59 p.m.

Dat 9-1 versus Gief made into 10-0.

#28
SAMURAI said on March 27, 2013 at 3:59 p.m.

Sagat shoumd be stronger. I mean just take a look at him, he's a giant muay thai fighter. It's bullsh*t that little schoolgirls are stronger than him.

#29
100thMonkey said on March 27, 2013 at 4:06 p.m.

@27 yeah make grappler match ups even more advantageous to Sagat...........

#30
TonyCorleone said on March 27, 2013 at 4:13 p.m.

If Ryan Hart could write a paragraph without me having to gasp for breath, then I would read it. As it is he doesn't, so I won't.

#31
Crazcar said on March 27, 2013 at 4:22 p.m.

Sagat is one of the few that should be changed only slightly or not at all. Doesn't help that he doesn't list a few nerfs he'd be willing to take, more so since Sagat has never been 'bad'.

@29 It's a game with people throwing fireballs from their hands, doing impossibly high jumps, and guys like Blanka and Sim, logic be damned.

#32
cris25 said on March 27, 2013 at 4:32 p.m.

I wish some more top players would give their opinion too.
Like Daigo on Ryu, Uryo on Sakura, and so on.

Even though not everyone will like their suggestions (like the angry scar just now), it's nice to know what goes through their mind about the characters.

#33
DeadlyMoves said on March 27, 2013 at 4:38 p.m.

Sagat is fine as he is. its the low tier characters that need buffs, to level the playing field.

#34
xanderglz said on March 27, 2013 at 5:38 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#35
Antstarr said on March 27, 2013 at 5:59 p.m.

How can he be complaining about Sagat when almost every charge character is at a disadvantage against him. Buff the charge characters and lower tiers....Sagat is already quite high up.

#36
Darc_Requiem said on March 27, 2013 at 6:16 p.m.

@34

I agree completely

#37
learis1 said on March 27, 2013 at 6:18 p.m.

Sagat is a character whose already been properly sculpted. He doesn't need changes like other under/overpowered characters do.

#38
gunblade72 said on March 27, 2013 at 6:58 p.m.

Sagat is mid screen baiting a poke. Activates angry scar, hey look he threw a sweep out and now since angry scar has no recover frames I'll punish that sweep with ultra. If that buff happens then Sagat will basically have a parry that can't be punished. Ryan Hart is such a baby, he thinks he is winning with a low tier character or something.

#39
VladDracul said on March 27, 2013 at 7:08 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#40
zeroschneider said on March 27, 2013 at 7:15 p.m.

Giving Sagat the ability to block after Angry Scar means that he essentially gets a Tiger Uppercut buff AND an FADC for only 1/4 of a super bar. Someone tell me how that's balanced.

#41
MullaXul said on March 27, 2013 at 8:07 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#42
ec0ec0 said on March 27, 2013 at 9:35 p.m.

sagat is like the last character (exageration) that needs all those buffs... if he is asking so much for sagat, we can ask for rufus too... there are worse characters than sagat in the game ryan... a lot of them.

#43
MarkHighHill said on March 28, 2013 at 12:02 a.m.

#27

Agree. then done!

#44
JIHADJOE said on March 28, 2013 at 4:50 a.m.

GIVE SAGAT A DIVEKICK!

#45
KTProsper said on March 28, 2013 at 5:24 a.m.

These suggestions seem fair. I like the first one. It'll give him a better chance to open up opponents.

#46
Smorgasboard said on March 28, 2013 at 7:14 a.m.

Most people don't notice this but there has been a conscious effort to reduce the damage of ultras due complaints against comeback factors.

These days, people complain that comeback factors are not good enough.

What to do?

#47
BoozerX said on March 28, 2013 at 7:53 a.m.

(This user was banned.)

#48
Sasuga said on March 28, 2013 at 7:58 a.m.

@29: According to that logic, Oni should even be stronger than akuma.

#49
BigFleccs said on March 28, 2013 at 8 a.m.

There nothing really messed up about this game, if you can't play this by now you NEVER will be able too. If you just started you can still learn though.

#50
powdertoastzman said on March 29, 2013 at 6:13 a.m.

all he needs as a sagat player SINCE SF2T is his vanilla st lk back.....thats it.

#51
fran_gil said on September 3, 2013 at 9:13 a.m.

Ryan said: TIGER KNEE SHOULD ALWAYS HIT TWICE WHEN CLOSE.

This makes me remember the vanilla days when sagat was S tier. The double tiger knee hit is simply an abuse because you can do nothing in recovery while being in the corner blocking the sagat standing low kick plus low tiger knee combo once and once again in an infinite loop. Capcom, please ignore!

#52


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