Sakurai intends to improve next Smash Bros.' online play, says idea of Brawl was 'carefree brawling'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...

If you're curious what professional smash melee looks like. NOT BRAWL.

Keyblade on the job! 'Grats.
I don't mind Smash being not for Tournies. I like just having fun and not being competitive sometimes. I have a lot of fond memories of playing Brawl with friends and families. I don't care if the game sucks from a competitive perspective, it always had a place during gaming days where you could just sit back and have a laugh.

Screw Melee, I'm honestly tired of that game being overhyped.

@3
Said no gamer ever... except the same closed minded kids who say colorful games are for babies, but you can't consider those people as gamers.

All of my yes.

Melee is one of the deepest, most technical and entertaining fighters out there.

#Hatersgonnahate

Why don't you stop caring about how people play online and start working on DAT LAG. ??????

One way the next smash bros game can be so successful, is by adding two modes. One being of course the regular party mode, and the other being competetive mode. Competetive allowing the players to only use balanced stages (like SF), and no items. Also, it would be nice if they add a combo mechanic like other fighting games. Idk, lets just hope it turns out good.

Yeah yeah Melee is super hard and technical...

Except not really. I'm not gonna deny it takes practice, but most players like to talk about Melee as if it wasn't possible for an average player to reach high level of play. Honestly when some Melee players talk like that I just feel that they are just trying to defend their game as a "fighting game" with any means possible, trying to say it's harder than other fighting games. It just takes a little bit of dedication, and definitely not really hard per se, not compared to games like VF or GG

@3 I'm not tired of melee, it's still a fun as hell game, but I will agree that there quite a few times when it was overhyped as hell, but so have a lot of other fighters out there.

Though I'll be honest, I'm almost always annoyed at the commentary in Smash streams and tournies. Like the one linked @1 was really annoying by both quality and the commentators not saying anything but "OOOHHHH S*** F*** S*** HYPE F*** YEAH THEY GOT NOTHING ON THIS GAME".

I will say though, Smash will never be taken seriously by the developers for a competitive scene. They'll always think of the casual gamers, because that's what Nintendo has always been about. It's unfortunate, but the sad reality of any Nintendo franchise.

"I don't mind Smash being not for Tournies. I like just having fun and not being competitive sometimes. I have a lot of fond memories of playing Brawl with friends and families. I don't care if the game sucks from a competitive perspective, it always had a place during gaming days where you could just sit back and have a laugh."

High Five.

If you have to abuse a glitch and ignore 90% of the game's characters, stages, and features then you're shoehorning a style into a game in a way it wasn't meant to be played.

@#11 mahvel 3

@10 "They'll *ALWAYS* think of the casual gamers, because that's what Nintendo has *ALWAYS* been about. It's unfortunate, but the *SAD* reality of *ANY???* Nintendo franchise... ?"

That's fairly condescending and presumptuous, don't you think?
You're basically saying they are intentionally shooting themselves in the foot working on this game.

If your words are true, then why is nintendo getting help from fighting game veterans Namco/Bandai for the Wii U release? They obviously ARE considering serious gamers this time.

Companies CAN learn from their past mistakes... Up to and including Nintendo. Give them a fair shake... They were, after all, here before Microsoft and Sony jumped in. Plus, they're still here. They must be doing SOMETHING right...

P.S. Oh yeah, are you for real about the DEVELOPERS NOT TAKING THE GAME THEY *****MAAAAAAAAAAADE****** SERIOUSLY?! BY VIRTUE OF THE ***YEARS*** THEY PUT INTO MAKING IT, DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THEY WERE LIKE, "oh, yeah, I'm really aiming for a mediocre game here, aren't you, co-worker?" ;ALKRGJHLA;GVJNLKJSDGH

@13 lol marvel. anyways . . i dont get why the smash oommunity can't just play the game the way it was meant to be played. maybe with a little tweaks but the crazy strict rules they have now.

Brawl's "With Anyone" online was positively awful, forced 2 minute time matches with minimal input on the rules. You're lucky to even find anyone who wants to fight, they all just sit around taunting and doing glitches and tricks.

I don't understand why it is so difficult for Nintendo to embrace the competitive SSB crowd. Why not tailor certain modes to the 'casual' audience, and others to the competitive scene?

It's a similar thing to snaking in MKDS. If that game came with the ability to set up communities as you can in MK7, there would have been much less complaint about snakers 'ruining' races. Instead, every game since MKDS has gotten slower and the items ever more stupid. In the same vein, Brawl is an embarrassment compared with Melee, and I wouldn't doubt that the next SSB will go further to cut out all competitive aspects of the game.

Brawl was fun, I dont care what anyone says.

@17 AMEN.

#16

Because the 'competitive' SSB crowd is an extremely small, extremely niche part of the total SSB crowd/community. That's how it is with every competitive game ever.

@16 Because they puts hundreds/thousands of hours of work into a game and then when the competitive scene plays it they take out all the stuff they worked to put into the game.

It's like why do all that work to get assist trophies licensed for in game references and people turn off all items only pick two or three stages and only pick 4 to 5 characters?

@9 You're obviously trolling. Anyone who has seen competitive Melee knows that ish is super input-heavy and deep.

@13 I'm not trying to put down the casual gamers. I mean, they're totally fine, but what I'm saying is that one should not ever expect them to take Smash competitively, which is sad for the competitive scene.

I still agree and see it as a non-competitive game, but yeah, you can make any game competitive out there. Hell, we make super mario competitive with score and speed runs.

I'm all for another casual Smash game actually. I have a few friends that used to play it competitively before moving onto fighting games like SFIV and Marvel 3, and tried to teach me it, but I never really had fun playing it as such. It's more fun with the random insane fun because I don't really take it so seriously myself, but that's just me. Others enjoy it as such, I just don't.

I love how people say, "Play the game that the developers made" when we have Marvel where people play 1/8 the total cast. Different? Not really. A community makes the game what they want. Nintendo is a FUN company not a COMPETITIVE company, so the community takes their love for the characters and do their own thing, emulating (successfully I might add) the kind of jump/block/dash gameplay-style popular in games like darkstalkers.

I'm just saying, final destination / three lives / no items is some of the most fun I've had in a figher and saying it's not what the developers wanted is like saying, "that's not what Jesus wanted" to "controversies" like gay marriage. Who cares? That's why they gave you the level editor - to make all the FD's you want.

Online play would make SB the most popular fighter on the planet and I say that as a guy whose wasted the last five years playing SFIV.

I'm sorry, but there are games that I just don't expect to pay competitively... ever. We have enough great competitive fighters (the greatest being KOFXIII, of course). When it comes to SSB series, I just don't take gameplay that seriously; I have fun playing with the random items and such.

I remember my sis's bf wanted to turn off all of the items and junk; I was like "are you bananas? If you want to play competitively, I have MvC2 as well as other great fighters in my closet." Whenever I mention MvC2 as an alternative, they run screaming.

@21

It's been 11 years; if the game really was that "deep," you wouldn't have to still be trying to convince others of the fact.

"Competitive" Smash is like the following scenario.

Jim: Hey Joe, wanna play some hockey?

Joe: Sure thing, Jim! Let me just grab my stick and skates.

Jim: Whoa whoa WHOA, why are you bringing THOSE along?

Joe: Uh... because we're gonna play hockey?

Jim: Yeah, of course we are, but we're gonna play REAL hockey! And in real hockey, sticks and skates aren't allowed!

Joe: But if I don't bring my skates, how am I going to move fast on the ice?

Jim: Ice? Man, we don't go on ice, it's slippery and you might fall down. That's too random. We're gonna play on the basketball court.

Joe: Well... okay, but if I don't bring my stick, how am I going to hit the puck?

Jim: Puck?!

There really making this game lmao this is gonna flop so hard

If people want to play Smash Competitively then whats wrong with that??? I see no problem with that. I agree with some of the other people. They should have a Casual and Competitive mode in the next game. Yeah Smash wasn't planned to be played competitively, but they shouldn't ignore the people that do play it competitively and change all the features to force people NOT to play it that way. That is pretty messed up honestly if you ask me.

@26
Name a mainstream nintendo with mario included that "FLOPPED SO BADLY"

Sure are a lot of people that say people are playing the game wrong when THE GAME ITSELF gives you the option to play how you want. Even casuals don't play by the default 2 minute ruleset.

I don't care what buzzwords he wants to use to make the new games online sound fun because the short of it is this: If it lags as bad as Brawl I won't be buying it.

i bet you wont be able to turn off items in this next game, watch.

let me ask all of the "o melee is a joke and not supposed to be competitive" this. Have you ever tried to learn and research about why people think it can be very competitive? Just because you used to play melee/brawl whatever for fun does not mean you actually know the depth and why people take it seriously. i dont even play the god damn game, but i can respect people who do and i myself have seen some impressive and intriguing play from melee (not brawl sorry :p) which is definitely better than marvel 3(not hard to beat though). Finally, dont rain on other peoples parade i will take back my marvel 3 comment, let people do what they want and dont be so egocentric its childish.

@26
What do you mean? are you saying that Nintendo sucks at making good games? cuz i see Mario and Zelda being more porpular than Capcom's Street Fighter (Nealy).

@25
That's not really an apt comparison since at that point you're not playing hockey anymore. A better comparison would be playing Marvel and turning the X-Factor off. Well, I actually don't like that one either. I'm not sure what you'd compare it to but the one you stated isn't it.

Why is it that every time a Smash article is posted, people start debating Melee vs. Brawl, competitive rulesets vs. playing the game how it was "meant to be played", and whether or not they're true fighting games. This article has nothing do with any of that.

OT: I'm glad he's doing something about this. Brawl's online experience was HORRIBLE. Just everything about it: unbearable lag, stupid taunt parties, and limited match options. Like someone else mentioned, it was hard to find people who actually wanted to fight. I hope there's options for FFA, 1v1, and teams. Maybe ranked matches, too. And items should be taken care of like in PSAS. Instead of turning off items altogether, you simply choose whether or not you want to play with items and then look for a match.

I really like where they're taking this, with any luck this might actually be the sequel melee deserves (Although I personally think SSBB is fun, it's not a serious fighter). I just hope they make the combo system slightly more orthodox, but that's just a dream ;_;

Meh, Smash is played competitively just because it's Nintendo's fighter, so it has a instantly strong fandom after it. No mather how casual and random they make the next itineration, they will play it anyway.

@31
No interesting play from Brawl? I've never really followed SSB tournaments, but as a casual Brawl player watching the grand finals from this year's Apex blew my mind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwO2L1...

The arguments here claiming that smash isn't competitive due to having such a 'limited set of rules' is bogus. C'mon. I'm looking at you, Moosh.
Competitive fighters strive to set each fighter on an equal footing as possible. Street fighter does this inherently by having each stage vary only by athsetics and having minimal random elements. (Even then, a majority of matches are played on training stage.)
Smash can be a little different as it offers extras, like items and wacky stages, but yeah. While these are a blast to play with, to compete with these on reduces the importance of outplaying your opponent, hence why items are off and the stages allowed won't kill you. It's more fun that way.
As for the 'fox only' part of the argument, doesn't it sound eerily similar to magneto storm sentinal or chun yun ken army, doesn't it? Fighters are always going to have tiers and people who play to win will gravitate towards those characters.
.....or something. Whatever.

@25 lol

I don't know why people would want "Casual" and "Competitive" modes when the game actually lets you make all the rules yourself.

Competitive rules just take out all the randomness from items and stages, so I also don't understand why some would argue that you are not playing the game anymore with those rules. The randomness is for fun, take it out and it becomes a legit competitive game. Nothing to do with turning off X-Factor. If Marvel or SFIV or any other game had RANDOM items popping up on the stage, pretty sure people would turn them off for serious play and there would be no debate.

Be cool if Megaman X is in it

@24

Maybe because Smash fits a niche of non-combo intensive combat for people who want to play intensively but don't want to learn lengthy, damage maximizing combos? A lot of people tell me they don't like fighters because the combos take forever. I can respect that and games like Smash and Darkstalkers fit that vein nicely.

@39

When the game is designed, from the ground up, around randomness, it makes for a terrible competitive game when you try to liposuction all the randomness out of it. Why should anyone take it seriously when you have to outlaw 90% of the game's content in order to reach that "competitive" state?

I've played Melee competitively. I once took 3rd place in a tournament of over 200 players. I was playing Ganondorf. If you're a real melee player, you'll know what that implies.

Smash is fun, even competitively. There is fun to be had. Competitive Smash, however, is a stupid kind of fun, and nobody who enjoys it should expect it to be taken seriously outside of its own tiny circle. Competitive Smash is not a "real game." It isn't "legit," "serious," or any other similar adjective. Competitive Smash is 10% of a party brawler.

Anyone who thinks other people need to "respect it" or "take it more seriously as a fighter" lack perspective. If it were actually worth it, it would already be taken seriously by the FGC. There has been plenty of time for it to prove itself.

FOX ONLY

FINAL DESTINATION

melee takes work but its not hard to get good at it, anyways I wouldnt mind seeing smash being a bit more serious, I also think its ok for it to just be a party game as it was suppose to be, either way is fine with me

Smash is a fighting game and no matter what people say, the smash community is deep enough and hardcore enough to keep the game alive, so haters can hate all they want, as long as Mario can attack Bowser, smash players gonna smash.

Also, the FGC is close minded, we always knew this, but its ok cause like i said smashers gonna smash no matter what anyone says. They don't need the Capcom biased FGC to give them credit and welcome them, they gonna do what they do when they do same as Skull Girls (Now Skull Boys), DOA players, Soul Caliber players, Tekken players, Pokemon Puzzle league players, DOTA, LOL, CS:GO, TF2, BF3 and everything else, who the hell cares.

Personally im excited about the next smash, do i hope its serious like melee was, yea I do, but if its not then oh well. Smash is still a great franchise, and Nintendo is still a great company.

@4 Could someone translate this for me?

I hate Smash but I won't deny how technical it can be.

Smash is too technical for its own good.

Smash sure as hell is not the first game to ban certain things in tournaments, and I highly doubt it'll be the last. Guilty Gear XX Accent Core bans versions of characters from other Guilty Gear games, Kliff, and Justice. Macros are and aren't allowed for some tournaments.(and trust me, when you're playing on pad, you WANT macros) Akuma and O. Sagat were banned in Super Turbo/HD Remix. I'm not going to say that Smash is more technical than other fighters, but to say it's not competitive because the community has to make up rules is a joke.

There were a couple players talking about how the game abuses glitches to be competitive; all I have to say to that, is that roll canceling, Juggernaut glitch, and DHC glitch are all REAL glitches. Stuff like wavedashing, edgehogging, etc. just use the game's engine to gain an advantage. They're about as much of a glitch as instant overheads, auto-corrects, kara throws, and OS throw techs in any other fighter.

Kid Icarus: Uprising's online multiplayer worked quite well for me, even in long distance matches. Considering that Uprising was a Sakurai game (plus, it was 6 player, while Smash is 4), I'm not too worried about how the net quality will turn out.

@52

Thank you for bringing some actual sense.

I don't know if many people know this, but, L/Z cancelling is a part of the Smash Bros 64 official website manual. Wavedashing is an exploit the developers already knew existed, but decided to leave it. It is NOT a glitch, it is an exploit of the physics of the game. The game knows when you do a wavedash if you check the debug of the game.

@52

exactly. Perfect response

@54 I didn't know that about wavedash and the debug...that's interesting.

@DRain#52

lets not forget Plinking which i personally think is the brokest thing ever since technically the computer is helping you to make a move.

It doesn't matter "How the game is meant to be played" or anything like that. If you play the game a different way AND ENJOY IT, it doesn't matter at all. Don't know why people keep mentioning that as a counter-argument, jesus. If you want to play it casually that's your opinion.

@Moosh #25

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA