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Major tournaments, Shoryuken, EventHubs and Mad Catz take stand against collusion, coverage will be determined by rule inclusion in future

Posted by Jonathan 'Catalyst' Grey • July 30, 2013 at 2:02 p.m. PDT
Major tournaments, Shoryuken, EventHubs and Mad Catz take stand against collusion, coverage will be determined by rule inclusion in future In partnership with Shoryuken and Mad Catz, we will no longer be offering coverage of tournaments that don't incorporate a collusion rule into their events.

The Shoryuken and EVO team recently spear-headed an effort to help prevent collusion at tournaments, asking the directors of these events to add in a rule to put a stop to this practice. They also contacted us and Mad Catz to further organize the effort.

We here at EventHubs have added our full support to this movement. Here's the official statement, hit the jump to read everything.

Competitive spirit is the lifeblood of the fighting game community. Unfortunately, this year we have seen a few incidents where players intentionally underperformed, usually in the final matches of a tournament. This behavior is unacceptable, and it must end.

To guarantee the integrity of future tournaments, major tournament directors have come together to standardize Evo’s rule regarding player collusion:

"Collusion of any kind with your competitors is considered cheating. If the Tournament Director determines that any competitor is colluding to manipulate the results or intentionally underperforming, the collaborating players may be immediately disqualified. This determination is to be made at the sole discretion of the Tournament Director. Anyone disqualified in this manner forfeits all rights to any titles or prizes they might have otherwise earned for that tournament."

As of this writing, the following tournaments have agreed to institute this rule:

• Evolution Championship Series (Includes all Road to Evo events)
• Big E Gaming Events (Northeast Championships, Summer Jam, and Winter Brawl)
• Canada Cup Gaming (Canada Cup, April Duels)
• Community Effort Orlando
• Civil War
• East Coast Throwdown
• The Fall Classic
• Final Round
• Level|Up Events (SoCal Regionals, Wednesday Night Fights, and The Runback)
• MTLSF Events
• Northwest Majors
• Shadowloo Showdown
• NorCal Regionals
• Toronto Top Tiers (TORYUKEN, Canadian East Coast Championships)
• Treta Championship
• Ultimate Fighting Game Tournament
• WorstGiefEver/Armshouse tournaments
• Fenway Fight Series/Replay'd Sponsored Events

Furthermore, Shoryuken and EventHubs have agreed to only cover events that include this rule and enforce it at their tournament. To receive coverage of any kind, the tournament organizers must post official rules for their event, including the rule above.

Mad Catz, one of the most stalwart supporters of the fighting game community, has expressed its support for the rule.:

"Mad Catz proudly supports the fighting game community, and we want to take a serious stand when it comes to supporting not only players, events, but the overall community. Out of respect to all the other sponsors/event organizers that put their time and resources into creating amazing events, we want to make sure that everything is done to maintain the integrity and respect of those events.

Mad Catz is in full support of a standard set of rules to preserve the legitimacy of each event, and going forward will only support events that institute such rules."

Image teaser from KaraFace.

Comments

TwoDogKnight said on July 30, 2013 at 2:03 p.m.

good idea

#1
AnkiRendan said on July 30, 2013 at 2:04 p.m.

Excellent.

#2
OneFrameLink said on July 30, 2013 at 2:06 p.m.

One Frame Link has donated (way) over $10K in pot bonuses to ECT over the last few years, and is looking to do more in the 2013-2014 season with other tournaments.

That said, we were dismayed and agreed with Mark when we saw the VxG grand finals for Marvel and believe in playing it out (as pot splits are impossible to police, but collusion and match throwing can be).

To that end, we will not support tournaments that do not police collusion either (and posted as much yesterday):

https://www.facebook.com/OneFrameLink...

#3
WorstGiefEVER said on July 30, 2013 at 2:07 p.m.

Is this just for America? Since only American TOs were consulted and it is largely an American problem.

#4
neoWhite said on July 30, 2013 at 2:08 p.m.

So we won't be getting those Random vs. Random anymore in Grand Finals? Too bad. [sarcasm]

#5
ProfessorLester said on July 30, 2013 at 2:08 p.m.

I had said that there is no real league, with this ruling now everything seems more professional and in sync.

#6
neoWhite said on July 30, 2013 at 2:09 p.m.

@#4 Shadowloo Showdown is Australian based. Toronto Top Tiers is Canadian based. So not just America.

#7
yamisora said on July 30, 2013 at 2:09 p.m.

It is a good idea. VxG was a joke during Marvel finals.

#8
DustinFong said on July 30, 2013 at 2:10 p.m.

We won't be esports until Valle is named the first Commissioner of Fighting Games.

#9
HeatEXTEND said on July 30, 2013 at 2:10 p.m.

GOOD, although it's kinda sad it has to be done this way.
Pot splitting, sure, but respect the game and PLAY-IT-OUT.

#10
Teags said on July 30, 2013 at 2:10 p.m.

Agree with this, but really am more looking forward to reading this comment section over the next couple of hours. #ohweesportsnow

#11
diddysinatra said on July 30, 2013 at 2:11 p.m.

Good Call OneFrameLink. This all has my support (for whatever that's worth). Pot-splitting: Yeah, it's not feasible to police that, but undermining everyone else in the tournaments efforts (participants and organizers) by throwing the final games to the wind is just wrong.

#12
NSLshockwave said on July 30, 2013 at 2:11 p.m.

Well said

#13
Catalyst said on July 30, 2013 at 2:14 p.m.

@WorstGiefEVER

This will be for all tournaments in the future which want coverage on our website.

#14
BlackGuile said on July 30, 2013 at 2:15 p.m.

@4 Shadowloo Showdown is on that list

#15
WorstGiefEVER said on July 30, 2013 at 2:16 p.m.

Oh and Australia. lol

#16
OneFrameLink said on July 30, 2013 at 2:16 p.m.

@12 Much appreciated. I mean, we don't have the money that MadCatz or Avermedia has, but we don't like the situation either, especially when our money is *directly* tied to the outcome of these matches.

It's rather personal for us when we see something blatant like what happened at VxG and think that could happen at a tournament that we put money into; it just ends the tournament on a sour note, a let down of sorts.

#17
WorstGiefEVER said on July 30, 2013 at 2:17 p.m.

Why wasn't anyone from Europe included in this conversation then? We too small fry?

#18
Orichalkos said on July 30, 2013 at 2:17 p.m.

I'm surprised Next Level Battle Circuit isn't on there?

#19
xShonuffx said on July 30, 2013 at 2:18 p.m.

I approve of this. Keep it 100. What the 2 players do with the money at the end is their own decision but they still must give it their all, I don't care if they random out either, they better play like they mean it, that's all I care about.

#20
PickATopTier said on July 30, 2013 at 2:19 p.m.

Does this mean TOPANGA league events will not be covered by SRK and EH now? I don't see them on the list.

#21
XxkakashixX53 said on July 30, 2013 at 2:19 p.m.

Meh there's 2 sides to this arguement.

#22
Dart2623 said on July 30, 2013 at 2:22 p.m.

@4

Your comment can be read like in two ways.. are you pointing out that only American TO were consulted, implying a feeling of exclusion? or are you trying to state that, since this is mostly an american issue, other TO from other regions should not be subject to this?
Keep it simple dude, they are not trying to make a new law here.
A)You want their coverage and their logo on your torney? Please apply that rule in your event.

OR

B)You dont want to apply that rule, just dont mind reaching them.

Simple as that. No matter where you are.

#23
Catalyst said on July 30, 2013 at 2:22 p.m.

@WorstGiefEVER

This is for all tournaments every where. No one was intentionally left out, but contacting every single TO in the community to get their approval wasn't exactly feasible in the time frame we had.

If you want to voice your support here, I'll be happy to add you into the story and also contact SRK and let them know to update their own piece on their website.

#24
Major_Dog said on July 30, 2013 at 2:23 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#25
J_Talbain said on July 30, 2013 at 2:23 p.m.

I disagree with this completely there a lot more I could say on the matter but I'll just leave it at this I disagree.

#26
Jaxon76 said on July 30, 2013 at 2:24 p.m.

The lack of awareness and intelligence shown by these players is stunning. Justin, Flocker, Chris G may be intelligent at playing fighting games, but are complete dunces when it comes to real, strategic decision making and common sense.

Why are these players so dense that they need to pick joke teams to split a pot? If they have pre-arranged to split the pot, wouldn't the intelligent decision be to play with your regular teams and deceive the viewing audience by playing the finals as if there were no pre-arrangement? What need is there to *telegraph your stupidity* by picking secondary teams?

Collusion will continue, but it will be done secretly, they way _it should have been done in the first place_. Again, amazing, complete, shocking retardation on the offending players' part.

#27
Shalaska said on July 30, 2013 at 2:25 p.m.

So this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause.

Jokes aside I'm amazed by Chris G's influence on FGC. Guy just stops giving a sh*t in the middle of the tournament goes random and this happens. And yes, I still don't believe it was a split.

#28
jvenom23 said on July 30, 2013 at 2:26 p.m.

so much for big 2

#29
FrenchPingu said on July 30, 2013 at 2:26 p.m.

I don't really see how you can regulate it.
If ChrisG had lose against Champ everybody would have said he was sandbagging, but he didn't obviously.
How do you know if the player have a hidden team or if it's just random ? And what about the trolling teams ? Specially in a game like Marvel where you can get bodied 3 times in a row just because this game is random as ****.

#30
xBMxSage said on July 30, 2013 at 2:27 p.m.

I like this. If the players wish to split the money or whatever, that's fine, but don't just BS the match.

#31
Hackstermatrix said on July 30, 2013 at 2:28 p.m.

Pot splitting is fine and so is playing whatever character or team. It's not playing with effort that is upsetting.

#32
BabyBonnieHood said on July 30, 2013 at 2:28 p.m.

I can't be the only one that see this could do more harm than good..

#33
HyperCombinationFinish said on July 30, 2013 at 2:31 p.m.

Well done. It shouldn't even have to come to this, but hey, players wanna try and make a mockery of events that organizers put a lot of time, effort and resources into making. Disrespect the events and get treated like babies in return. Fair is fair.

#34
WorstGiefEVER said on July 30, 2013 at 2:31 p.m.

Obviously all events I am associated with (which is a lot) will agree to this - as far as tournament rulesets go though, I think guidance on that needs to be clarified (ie how it is written within a public ruleset in a format that is simple to understand for entrants).

And how does a TO sign up to this? It seems to be a joint list (and where is iplaywinner.com?) - needs clarification.

#35
ForTheViolence said on July 30, 2013 at 2:32 p.m.

@18 no one is trying to single Europe out. I get that you get but hurt that american stream monsters don't respect European players but there's no need to get defensive here.

#36
Bader said on July 30, 2013 at 2:33 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#37
Dart2623 said on July 30, 2013 at 2:35 p.m.

@35

A)You want their coverage and their logo on your torney? Please apply that rule in your event.

OR

B)You dont want to apply that rule, just dont mind reaching them.

Simple as that. No matter where you are.I dont think needs any further clarification. Just make sure u have tha rule applied and visible in your event website, at the moment of reaching these people.

#38
tortonon said on July 30, 2013 at 2:35 p.m.

JWong has already ducked to come here after Combofiend/Tokido came.

Now, we'll never have any other american top player since Treta is also against collusion LOL

#39
BlackGuile said on July 30, 2013 at 2:36 p.m.

@19 Spooky is bigger than EventHubs and SRK, he can do whatever he feels like

#40
gohan16ken said on July 30, 2013 at 2:36 p.m.

What is "collusion"? Is it when the players agree to split the pot and then don't pick their non-traditional characters?

If so, I have a few questions.

How can the tournament director determine collusion? Just because they pick random all or not pick their traditional characters?

Ironically, a lot of people have been saying UMvC3 is dead and boring because they keep seeing the same characters. So, now players who are taking manage risk (picking a different character to please the fans while not affect their money) are getting in trouble? Kind of interesting.

Lastly and mostly important, is fighting games more about the money or seeing new things? What is really wrong with collusion? Is it that they are not taking their main characters or is it that you feel because they have already agreed to split the pot that they are underperforming? If so, how are you judging underperforming? Is it skill in the match or is it because they did not pick their traditional team? This logic makes it seems that fighting games is more about money than seeing new things.

A thought of a nonprofessional fighting gamer.

#41
Catalyst said on July 30, 2013 at 2:37 p.m.

@WorstGiefEVER

Added you into the story.

As far as compliance, copying and pasting that rule into the websites for your events is all you need to do, then you'll get coverage from us.

We'll also be reaching out to event/TOs who aren't compliant with the rule before their events run to see if we can get them up to speed. Not everyone is going to see this announcement, and we're not trying to shut people off. We actually want to cover more events, not less.

Basically, we want a united stand against collusion. As the rule states, it's up to the TO (person in charge of the tournament) to indicate if the rule was broken or not and take appropriate action.

#42
shinra358 said on July 30, 2013 at 2:38 p.m.

Is Daigo's fireball fury considered underperforming? xD

#43
fajrinazis said on July 30, 2013 at 2:39 p.m.

It's really hard to define "underperformance". What if the player is hiding tech? counter-picking? experimenting? not in a good mood/condition? Chris G's Z team (chun/hsien ko/X23) is good enough for him to get out from pools, and that's obviously not his best performance. Should he use his best even to play against random players?

please make a concrete rule(s) first, something like pick 3-5 team/character on registration, select random team/character is prohibited, etc.

#44
GirlsOfGaming said on July 30, 2013 at 2:39 p.m.

i support this.

#45
Struggs said on July 30, 2013 at 2:46 p.m.

About damn time. Want to see what happens when this situation comes up again but I hope people like ChrisG don't try and pull this crap again out of fear of losing all the prize money.

Can't split prize money when it's forfeited!

#46
Ermapume said on July 30, 2013 at 2:47 p.m.

I too support this; especially for hardworking event organizers.

#47
verasan said on July 30, 2013 at 2:49 p.m.

this is an excelent idea n.n japonawa approved n.n

#48
ya_boy said on July 30, 2013 at 2:50 p.m.

This is not gonna stop people like Chris G from sandbagging if he wants to. Marvel can be won or lost by one mistake and you can't tell someone they did it on purpose.

Even still if someone doesn't play their A team because they want to test something then how do you say whether they under performed or not? F.Champ has been knocked out of tourneys for sticking to Phoenix when everyone else watching has questioned why he never switched to Dorm.

#49
HiryuMK said on July 30, 2013 at 2:53 p.m.

This is great to hear. Good job EventHubs, SRK and Mad Catz.

#50
Drewsan said on July 30, 2013 at 2:54 p.m.

@ 41

I think you are one of the only few that get it. The idea that people complain about homogenous character selection and then get pissed when players pick alternate teams is highly amusing. ChrisG did to FChamp what Wong did to ChrisG in EVO: come back from the doorstep of death to take the match. When ChrisG lost, it was hype; when FChamp lost, it was collusion. The difference was CHRISG's team, and nothing else. FChamp usually wins with that team, and I was hype watching Chris' comeback. Honestly, what was the problem. The only solutions to preventing the dominance of a few characters is to a) adjust/nerf the game, b) adjust/nerf tournament rules, c) level the ufck up. What happened is not collusion. What happened was two of the best players in the world playing with alternate teams. Like someone else said earlier, there would be know way to know if there was pot splitting if they'd played their "A" teams. Oh, and since they already bodied EVERYONE ELSE, it shouldn't matter who they pick. Remember being at the arcades, taking an L, and having to HOLD THAT L until you won? I know some of you do... Again, the problem isn't collusion.

#51
Catalyst said on July 30, 2013 at 2:55 p.m.

@ya_boy

I wish a perfect rule set/circumstances could be established that could prevent anything from going wrong and make everything 100% perfect, but the reality is, I don't think that exists.

My opinion is that this standard was implemented with the intention that it stops most of the nonsense going on, but it's going to be hard/impossible to stop 100% of it.

We need to do something, though. I think the VxG UMvC3 grand finals made that clear.

#52
DJScrubble said on July 30, 2013 at 2:56 p.m.

Man, as a news site, you guys really do lack basic journalistic tact. First thing you did wrong was that you guys became part of the story. The second thing is that you took an opinion instead objectively presenting facts. I just wish you guys saw yourselves as a forum instead of a news site. As a news site, you're rather unethical in the eyes of journalism.

#53
Clamper said on July 30, 2013 at 2:57 p.m.

Great news. Shout outs to all who are working towards sportsmanship.

#54
masang said on July 30, 2013 at 3:04 p.m.

@41 gohan16ken,
_______________

"Lastly and mostly important, is fighting games more about the money or seeing new things?"
_______________

excellent question for which there is no correct answer, but many have strong opinions about.
i feel fighting games are for fun, regardless of how seriously you take them. for the communities to have even come to this point is just silly to me.
i always enjoyed the raw culture of fighting games back even before what many refer to as the 'dark ages' simply because it was fun and nothing beyond that. sounds ridiculous to most people, i know.

#55
thegoldencat said on July 30, 2013 at 3:05 p.m.

I could not be anymore in favour. Thank you so much for this.

#56
KristineR said on July 30, 2013 at 3:05 p.m.

Here is where these rules get funny at; you initiate a rule that is for the tournament organizers but what about the players? Lets address why there is pot splitting. These players are not being paid. This rule is not for the players but more so for the tournament organizers.

Players name, images and likeness in promos and pictures are being used to promote these events. Players do not get one dime from it. You want to implement rules but then again where are the rules for the players. The FGC is crossing into dangerous territory. You don’t want to pay these players for their appearance at your tournament, you use their name and their pictures in your promos. They make money off airing player’s matches and replays; yet you want to implement a rule like this.

People are starting to wise up and while those select few make their rules watch how many players stop playing and start playing things like league of legends. Obviously the FGC is not read for major sponsorship because you are stacking rules up against the players to protect the tournament organizers money but no one is not mentioning putting rules in place to get these guys properly paid.

#57
Esquilax said on July 30, 2013 at 3:08 p.m.

I am glad to see people are doing something against this

#58
MrWow12 said on July 30, 2013 at 3:08 p.m.

Good.

#59
Echo01 said on July 30, 2013 at 3:09 p.m.

I feel that this might get ugly. What if the TO happens to misinterpret the players' intentions?

#60
error3 said on July 30, 2013 at 3:11 p.m.

This is all about money....

#61
bigfellr said on July 30, 2013 at 3:11 p.m.

Meeehhh screw the fighting game community. I hope all the top players drop fighting games and move onto games like lol or dota, it will benefit them in the long run

#62
nyhman78 said on July 30, 2013 at 3:13 p.m.

i think its cool that there a stand but at what cost,can u tell from pot splitting to dropping combos cause a bad day or alot on ur mind,from counter picking to pot splitting,its gonna be hard but it will make the players think but what if i just wanna play someone different,i dont play in tournaments but it just a thought for those that do,i guess its gonna be like wwe, markman jumping in the middle of the fight and DQ everyone and running with the prize money,just playing,at least markman making a stand.

#63
Chrisuchiwa said on July 30, 2013 at 3:14 p.m.

This was about time. This is pretty good for top players. They want to take our money and make an association and collect our money ever more? I am totally for this rule.
I will never split money with my friend. I will beat him so bad if I can and will give him some money if I want to. I you really like your opponent, show him he has to level up and go party with him after the tournament.
I can't believe someone is picking his main chars during the whole tournament and then decide to pick random in GF, WTF is that, seriously? Just ban them,no money!!!

#64
dennishubs said on July 30, 2013 at 3:14 p.m.

will this work though? if they dont random then they'll just use their real team but play half-heartedly, this kind of strongarm tactic usually dont work that well, but i do support what is being done.

#65
Catalyst said on July 30, 2013 at 3:15 p.m.

@DJScrubble

We're not a journalism outlet. We're a website about the FGC/fighting games.

While we mostly do reporting, guides and other stuff, but we're definitely in no way, shape, or form the NY Times. I think anyone reading this site for a short period of time would find that comparison laughable.

#66
RebornOdin said on July 30, 2013 at 3:15 p.m.

#53

We now know why you're called DJScrubble.

#67
CrymsonWulf said on July 30, 2013 at 3:17 p.m.

I'm so glad this has come to pass. The players that do this have disrespected tourney sponsors and viewers--hell the fans for far too long. VxG had a considerable amount in giveaways and sponsorships, so for players to intentionally not compete (something they are sponsored to do) is a direct hit to the sponsors integrity and the players. Major sponsors like Madcatz should pull out from events that allow this nonsense. Anyone who watched Chris G vs Champ, or Chris G vs Flocker knows that there was collusion happening. Champ was up 2 0r 3 games out of 4 I believe and IDC how good Chris G is, there is no way Champs team loses to Chris' day one umvc team which he hasn't played competitively in a major in damn near a year. Champ team simply does not lose to that team ESPECIALLY with Champ playing it lol.

And we all witnessed that disgraceful grand finals... goodnight that was a well lubricated open-handed slap across the face. These players are sponsored and paid to perform at the highest level, now the argument can be made that they can pick what they want; but again they aren't sponsored to do that and sponsors don't help out with these events to have players throwing matches and not playing at their best just to get a piece of the prize. I don't doubt one second that Champ, Chris, and Flocker split that money together.

The FGC is getting the attention it worked so hard to get with sponsors and sponsored players. I'm glad that a stand has been taken to ensure the continued growth of this community in a profitable aspect. Cause during this tournament season there has been blatant occasions when collusion has happened and it WAS noticed by organizers and commentators and NOTHING was said or done about it. I applaud the stance against this bafoonery.

#68
PropLeXed said on July 30, 2013 at 3:17 p.m.

@57

You have a point and I'm sure if a player didn't want themselves used in a promo they could probably just say so and be removed from it. Would be a pretty dick move to use someones image in promotion if they pretty much say no.

Glad that they're taking steps to try and fix this problem and promote proper sportsmanship, I say try because I don't think it will actually solve it completely although it's a good start. I mean just imagine all the behind the scenes pot splitting that's happened between those not stupid enough to do it infront of 10k+ people on a live stream. It's not happening between two random people that have never met in thier lives until grand finals, most the top players are friends.

#69
ZiggzBoy16 said on July 30, 2013 at 3:23 p.m.

LMAO just wow.

#70
DeathByYeti said on July 30, 2013 at 3:24 p.m.

Clamor over the "integrity" of fighting games but make sure to not get the illegal bets on the stream camera anymore

#71
TechNick_5LK said on July 30, 2013 at 3:24 p.m.

So when Godsgarden/Topanga League comes up, will you be contacting them to insist that they include the collusion rule? Will you seriously consider not covering such a massive event it if they don't?

This stance seems far too 'one size fits all' to work in reality.

#72
IMainDanHibiki said on July 30, 2013 at 3:25 p.m.

Totally agreed with #41.

'Oh no people are wasting our time so they can pot split which happens regardless if they play their normal teams or not! Let's just DQ them all!'

I personally feel that this makes the FGC look like money-grubbing stream monsters. What someone does with their money is entirely up to them, and if they wanna pot split, let them. Whether we like it or not, Pot Splitting is a part of tournaments right now, and having little DQ events to discourage it does nothing in the long run.

While I agree this is a good move to prevent moments like VXG's grand finals, I think it's a bit of a brash one. This automatically lumps those who want to legitimately win with those who are 'colluding'. At least in how I'm interpreting this.

tl;dr it's like saying you have to play your main team in a grand final. It ruins the spirit and fun of the game. I mean, what if you just agree with the other guy to do all randoms/pick a specific character/not use your main team but don't even potsplit it? How is that collusion?

#73
sfxpokemon said on July 30, 2013 at 3:26 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#74
wallie said on July 30, 2013 at 3:26 p.m.

I do agree with the rules, and I think it is an important step in getting FGC more exposure and credibility. More sponsors means bigger payouts. All other sports have governing bodies, and if player don't like it they can run their own tournament, spend lots of their OWN money promoting it, Have no one sponsor it and first place winner will take home $50.

#75
NvhA said on July 30, 2013 at 3:27 p.m.

Massive respect to the involved TO, sponsors and EH.

Edit: To those who raised the question on how to tell the difference between people colluding or not..

There's a difference between picking non main characters to try in a tournament and picking non main characters to fool around.

If you decide to do so, play like crap and do it in a grand final.. you can't blame people for being wary and doubting your intention.

#76
Y_U_sUk_hotdogs said on July 30, 2013 at 3:31 p.m.

This is a sub-division of the NSA.

#9 It would be a good idea, he could literally smell out the people who aren't trying with that huge schnauzer of his.

#77
shekeib said on July 30, 2013 at 3:35 p.m.

@27

sandbaggin. og tactic.

#78
Igydigital said on July 30, 2013 at 3:35 p.m.

Man... Talking to a girl for a few days.... What did I miss? Lmao who shot who in the what now? And Cody gets FADC Regular zonk !? Lmao

#79
okay said on July 30, 2013 at 3:35 p.m.

This rule is so vague. They don't even define what falls under "colluding" or "intentionally underperforming" at all. Plus, leaving it up to the sole discretion of the tournament director allows too much room for bias.

#80
Igydigital said on July 30, 2013 at 3:37 p.m.

It's sandwiching it happens in poker all the time

#81
i208khonsu said on July 30, 2013 at 3:38 p.m.

Granted I do not want to encourage this behavior myself, but as a TO myself I largely disagree with any action taken on the part of the TO to influence players on how to play. One of the main reason I enjoy eSports over other competitive games is that there are no discretionary rules to what is legal and what is not. The game either allows you to take an action or it does not. There should never be a question on whether or not a player takes an action or not given that the game allows them to take it.

Personally I feel policing this action should be sorely on the player's sponsors (like MadCatz). It makes the players look bad and it makes the brand look bad. To be honest, enforcing such a rule be in place in order to receive coverage is rather childish. If you're gonna force me to put this in ink in my rules w/e. Will I ever consider taking action and telling a player that I don't like they way that their playing, that they need to be serious and play harder? F off, I will NEVER tell a player how to play.

#82
PropLeXed said on July 30, 2013 at 3:41 p.m.

@73

I also agree that players should be able to do what they want with thier money but to be honest I think this rule is more about keeping the higher ups happy more than anything else. You probably saw the reaction of a certain rep for a major sponsor after the vxg grand finals. Seems like people worried about losing that sponsor money.

Added to that if T/Os want players to use thier main teams in grand finals then they should make the tournaments one team character locked from start to finish, if it's not team locked then players should be able to pick whatever they want as long as they're actually able to use the characters they select i.e no random all. If players still want to pot split this rule isn't going to stop them from doing it.

#83
Kurow said on July 30, 2013 at 3:42 p.m.

What about coaching and wasting time like champ did in EVO this year and even when he had the entire FGTV crew coaching him and wasting time on stage he lost!. That stupid time scam and coaching need to go away! if coaching is going to be allowed it should be only one person!.

#84
Super_Shoto_Fighter_4 said on July 30, 2013 at 3:44 p.m.

I think they should also look at punishing players who rig the brackets and players who use their status to avoid being DQ'd.

#85
fenixrisingxl said on July 30, 2013 at 3:47 p.m.

As a partially cynical person, might I interpret this rule as a Get Out of Jail Free card for a site like Shoryuken that doesn't seem to want to cover each event (for whatever reason), like VXG?
I apologize for possibly/probably derailing the feedback on this news item, but I can't help but notice Shoryuken granted practically no coverage to VXG, while Eventhubs chose to cover the event (thanks for that).
I also do not see VXG listed as a confirmed partner.
May I politely ask who/what is the source for this confirmed tourney-participant list, and whether or not the VXG TOs were contacted for their input?

On topic, I will say I have absolutely no idea how this is really going to be enforced. Not really sure how you can confirm a player to be 'not really trying' (which is how I define collusion), and the terms listed in the press release seem to be a little vague.
Am I correct in understanding that a TO simply has to add this rule to their site to get coverage?
Also, how do the 'Founding Fathers' (i.e. EVO/Shoryuken, Eventhubs, Madcatz) determine whether or not a TO failed to do their job if they think it's clearly obvious there was collusion, but the TO does not?
Uf.

#86
IareBeStayDrunk said on July 30, 2013 at 4 p.m.

If I were a T.O. or sponsor. I would not like losing thousands of viewers from random teams. Walk a mile in their shoes.

#87
IMainDanHibiki said on July 30, 2013 at 4:08 p.m.

@83: Looking at it, yeah, you're right.

In the short term this will probably work, I can't see it working in the long run though.

#88
lordrockman said on July 30, 2013 at 4:09 p.m.

Congratulations you just LOCKED chris g into morridoom!
Kappa

#89
JELIFISH19 said on July 30, 2013 at 4:10 p.m.

It's a very slippery slope. This rule only applies to well-known players. If I make it to top 8 at a tournament and change to my D team, no one knows I'm sandbagging because I'm an unknown player. But if FChamp picks his D team, people will see it as sandbagging unless he wins. Chris G beat FChamp with one of his alts after being down 3-0. Everyone thought it was sandbagging until he came back. If he lost, would we take away his prize for not picking MorriDoom? Do we take away FChamp's money for losing to it? What about that time they played and FChamp picked Dorm, Morrigan, and Phoenix. It was super obvious that he couldn't play Morrigan. Is it DQ worthy because he picked a team that he could barely play with? I remember when Chris G first brought out MorriDoom. He wasn't winning that much and everyone was saying that Chris G needs to go back to his "real" team. They thought he was sandbagging. But now MorriDoom is his real team. Where's the line between experimenting with a new team and sandbagging?

The only way I can see it working is if tournaments are character locked. There's not really a way to judge it. I've seen Chris G play the Phoenix Wright, Frank West, and Dante team before so it's not like he picked things that he was unfamiliar with.

#90
BlackMasamune said on July 30, 2013 at 4:13 p.m.

Say what you want about Triforce, but if the exact same thing happened at VXG, but they had partnered up with Alex Valle or Jebailey instead, this stand against collusion would never have happened.

#91
beastmode said on July 30, 2013 at 4:14 p.m.

If the FGC is going to move forward it needs rules like this, all other major sports and competitive gaming outfits already do.

#92
iTzg0dzy said on July 30, 2013 at 4:17 p.m.

Mr Wizard on twitter: "@EvilMrWizard: Pick any team you want, as long as your intention is to win, then you are golden." What is so hard to understand about that?

#93
dorayaki said on July 30, 2013 at 4:19 p.m.

WON'T WORK. That RULE is garbage.

First, leaving the decision up to one person is dangerous for many reasons. It should be at least a few persons who consult and come to a decision.

Second, say the two finalists don't give a fk and collude anyways in your major. By disqualifying the two best players, that tournament reputation ends up WORSE than if they had let them play it out - ESPECIALLY if they cut the finals short once collusion is suspected. Another words, tournaments won't have the nerve to just STOP the finals. I can guarantee you that. They may come up real quick to talk to the players but they won't cut finals.

On the otherhand, those who say blah blah blah about how hard it is to detect collusion, this isn't a court of law. You don't need solid evidence. As players with years and years of experience, we KNOW when someone is playing to win or not. And if it's quite obvious and unanimous from onlookers, well there you go. Not rocket science. If you need further explanation, you shouldn't even be in this conversation.

Like I preached on the other thread, giv'em the trophy and let them giggle thru it. Then take a pic of their faces afterwards when you tell'em they get $0... while the T.O giggles with "their" priiiiiize $$$$. That *ish would stop quick.

#94
kara said on July 30, 2013 at 4:22 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#95
Joshimitsu said on July 30, 2013 at 4:24 p.m.

So...apparently fighting game tournaments are now about the viewers and sponsors, as opposed to the players?

Bleh

#96
Oohwakamuu said on July 30, 2013 at 4:28 p.m.

@ 91

This happened already. Justin Wong was issued a Yellow Card in PowerUp 2011. Rest assured people cared all the way back then and then some.

Good on everyone that's taking a stand. Some kind of rule is better than no rule at all. You can make arguments for or against the rule, but there is one universal truth to remember. Sponsors shy away from negative PR. If they even believe that the community is rampant with collusion (which it's not) then there goes the sponsor money.

#97
PropLeXed said on July 30, 2013 at 4:30 p.m.

Kinda forgot to say this but I know Chris G is a talented player in multiple games and I respect him for that but sometimes I think the guy hasn't got an ounce of common sense in these situations.

I seriously have no idea why the dude insists on doing his business in plain view of major sponsors and 10K+ people watching on stream, has he never heard of being private and discreet.

#98
joshnorm said on July 30, 2013 at 4:31 p.m.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34Yc90...

Seriously don't know what the complaining is about. Watch that grand finals and please tell me that it was worth your 15 mins. You are talking about high level players playing like sh*t because they random all. Watching the Chris G x FChamp even though Chris went down 0-3 he was still trying to win and ultimately did. The TO will easily be able to spot it (examples being Fanatiq and JWong) so it wouldn't be this witch hunt people are thinking.

Here is the Chris G x FChamp one for comparison:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kqXlV...

#99
Abxes said on July 30, 2013 at 4:32 p.m.

I really agree with the intetion the organizers have for adding this rule. Collusion is indeed an important matter. However, Im not to sure about the way this rule is written and how it will be applied. This is considering that the tournament organizer is the one to apply this penalty at his sole discretion. Is there anyway for a disqualiffied player to appeal the aplication of the rule? More importantly, I think that if the tournament organizer was to apply this rule, it should not be at his sole discretion, but he must justify why he is applying the rule and the reasoning for the application of the penalty should be made public, otherwise "at the sole discretion" could turn into "arbitrarily". Is not really a small penalty and there is a really big grey area in which we can not be sure if a player threw away the match. Maybe he was trying something new and it just didn't work out, will that count as throwing the match away?

It could help is the rule had a more precise definition of what is "colluding" and how can you evaluate if a player is "intentionally underperforming", but I understand that could restrict the rule to much and it would end up being useless. Also, it saying that a player is "intentionally underperforming" is something that's really hard to determine and the cost of penalizing someone who appeared to be acting against the rules but really wasn't might be too high. Tournament organizers should be really careful when applying this rule, otherwise, it could produce a chilling effect in the development of the fighting games as players will be afraid to try new things in important matches because if they don't work a tournament organizer could see it as a manipulation of the results or intentionally underperforming.

Also, I think it's really dangerous that there's only one person in charge of the application of this rule as he doesn't need to justify his determination (which means there is no real control of his rulings) and there is noone to stop a bad decision when one is made. We are all humans and tournament organizers can be wrong too.

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