Street Fighter X Tekken v2013's pre-set gem units will be allowed at Evo 2013

That's going to be alot of red gems

I think the preset gem sets are a great idea as a tournament standard.

Good idea, i think gems will further expand the depth of the game on top of the breakthrough that 2013 has presented.

Double edge sword here. On one hand this saves time (not that I've ever heard of tournaments being delayed because of Gem selection), and on the other hand it undermines the whole idea of setting up something that supports your play style (aside from general status builds, the default sets don't seem to inform any kind of play style).

I don't think making sure players remember the codes of their set-up (from the retail pool of Gems) would be that hard.

Great idea!

@4 My thoughts exactly. I think they should just force the presets in pools then allow the 20 or 30 finalists to use what ever set-up they want.

I suppose this is better than not having gems at all.

It does lose some of its charm, though. The whole beauty of the system was the personalization.

Sounds fine to me. Rules are what make the game more interesting because it shows how people can abuse it, which then would changes the rules again. Fun fun fun.

@6 That's a pretty good idea, at least for the last day (when it's just top 8 or 16), so it only affects the few (if any) 6 or more people that use the same character but different gem set up.

Im fine with it. Still I feel these gems are being forced down our throats, its definantly something we did'nt ask for. I can see how it makes small differences but they are still conditional. But hey, thats the way it has to be.

And before people come aboard and say "If you don't like em don't use them," thats not the point. I just feel the game as a whole did'nt need them in the first place but all the character balancing around these Gems are more trouble than they are worth.

this game made evo? wtf

@4 I totally agree that the standard kinda undermines the point of gems. I never saw people complain about inputting gems but when you have so much vocal hate of a system that was under explored by most of the haters it is hard to justify keeping from a business point of view it and I guess this is the best they could do to try to calm some of the hate. Then again this is the internet and the hate will always thrive.

Hm.
sounds interesting. I'll be waiting to see what these people do...

Gems are a terrible idea for this game in general. One of the reasons I stayed away from this terrible game. Dumb gimmick that shouldn't have been added in the first place.

@9 Thanks, now if only we could get tournament organizers to run with this idea.

I welcome this, it is how the game was intended to be.

All they needed from the getgo was a dial pad instead of sides roll.

Gems are such a forced mechanic that didn't ever even need to be in the game. They've caused too much trouble for what they're worth and frankly are an uninteresting mechanic for me in my opinion. I wish the game was more playable without them.

damn well there goes yet another aspect of SFxT being changed for no good reason then someones personal dislike. Whether or not it is reasonable.

@14 How do you know it's terrible if you stayed away from it?

So hard to please everyone, even with going the middle ground option. Such is the life of SFxT, people just want to hate on it, I suppose. Some of the people that wanted gems are mad it's limited to pre-set lay outs, and the people that didn't want gems added at all are of course mad because they think it's gimmicky (most of which probably "hate" the game in the first place).

Other than the Pandora one, they all look quite useful. Meter and Damage will probably be the most popular, though I'm a fan of the balanced layout myself. I think the defense layout isn't very impressive, and they should have considered adding at least one of the gems that actually block a set amount of damage instead of reducing the damage taken by a %.

That said, I'm really looking forward to seeing this game at Evo, gems and all :). The game quite literally can't get worse than it was before, and I have quite high hopes for the current version's success.

To the people saying Gems are being forced down your throats, you need to know that every fighting game mechanic ever is essentially things 'forced down your throat'. What ever happened to the adaptability of the 'FGC'? Why can't you learn the metagame or simply drop the game (and stop reading the articles)?

Does SFxT work without Gems? Of course. Super Turbo can work without super moves. SF4 works without the Revenge Meter. MvC3 works without XF. So on and so forth with mechanics added on top of core game systems.

But they're in there.

So you have a few options: You can ignore a facet of game with honor rules and such, basically pretend they aren't there. Nothing's stopping you from doing this and how other people play the game or what tourny organizes allow isn't your concern in this case. Or you can embrace the system and adapt to it (a better option, imo).

Either way it's there, and it's going to be there until you get into another fighter or make your own. Assist Gems are suspect, paid Gems are ridiculous, but the Gem system in general is nifty and adds a nice touch to the game that doesn't outright break it. Hell, I'd have made the Gem effects even stronger if I was running the show. There would also be less so the metagame could form quicker, but that's just me.

@10 & 18

Agree.

@ 22, you have a good point. But tbh I think the concept of gems undermines the whole idea of "Adaptability". Where we usually adapt to their balance decisions and character playstyles, they put the ball in our hands and said "oh your character is crap? Use gems to make them better!"

idk, tbh I just think gems over-complicate the genre. It's ok to try new things, but don't charge people for it.

#24:

They're no more complicated than perks and loadouts in FPS games, where players have been adapting their options toward the metagame for many years now. I like experimenting and augmenting my Gem loadouts as I get better with a character, I don't think it's complicated at all. Nor do I think it was merely to boost a bad character. It can certainly be used for that, but how about boosting a character just for maximum status output? Make a fast character faster, a strong character even stronger, etc.

And we can all agree that charging for Gems is awful.

@24
Adapting to gems is no different from adapting to player habits. There are differences between each game but the core character is the same.

I think gems are a good addition to SFxT because it's an extension of the games focus on strategy. I would like to see the top 8 allowed to set their own gems and unlock their potential.

I am impressed by the amount of intelligent comments and civil discussion! I agree with Kalyx_triaD. If they could make people use pre sets in pool play, and switch to costum gems after, that would be great. Rather pre sets than no gems at least!

@ #22

You seem to have forgotten why people hated on gems, and that is to say the completely retarded, pay-to-win assist gems (the purple ones). Once that garbage which doesn't belong in no way to any fighting games (let alone a competitive one), gems are cleared to go.

There still the issue with the selection, but once you have 5 presets, we're good. But I'd like to stress: this is *against* why gems were put into the game (yeah, I know, after the ca$h grabbing), and that is to bring customization. You can't now have something like a 2x defense, 1x meter setup.

Also, while I agree on the 'you got to adapt' point, gems don't really make that much of a difference, so comparing them to *core* dynamics like a Super Art it's just a stupid argument. But again I see your point.

Actually, if, say, the whole FGC for some reason starts using defense gems only, all you get is a less entertaining fighter because games will last even longer, but hopefully that won't be happening.

What ever happened to the USB key idea?

@10 I wonder if people said crap like this when SFA3 had the different -ISMs.

#28

This is my third time saying this: Nobody is cool with paid Gems. We all agree on that. My points do not support premium Gems. I will say this for the last time and regard any future mentions as that point being ignored.

We all hate premium Gems. End of story. And nobody will commit social suicide by seriously picking Assist Gems in a tourny setting.

What you need to remember is super moves are NOT a core mechanic of fighting games. They were added so long ago you give them a pass, much like loadouts and perks in FPS games today. I'd go as far as to say if personal augmentation went forward in other fighting games, they would similarly be treated as 'what's the big deal'. So no, I wouldn't call that a stupid argument so much as historical observation. Radical ideas, eventually and through improvements, become normal. Fact.

I think your view on Gems are conservative in general. This isn't a bad thing, and there are many fighting games that don't have personal customizable effects. But I tell you one thing; between UMvC2's H&H mode and SFxT's Gems, I think we've not seen the last of this interesting idea. They pretty much take the Isms and Grooves concept to their logical evolutions.

I also contend with your stance that you think you know what 'should and shouldn't be' in a fighting game. That kind of thinking will never lead to innovation of any kind. I'd also like you explain what issues come from selection at tournaments. I've yet to see an example of how/why it would complicate things. I stand by my previous posts on the matter, as well as the idea that finals in a tourny should get to choose their own loadout. I'd love to hear a counter-point to those rather than "This doesn't belong in a fighting game (says who), paid Gems are bad (we know that)."

@ #31

Supers *are* core mechanics. I'm talking about lastest fighter here, you can go back to 80s if you want but that's no my concern.

You can't take Supers/Ultras/Hypers out of SF4 or MvC3, while you can definitely take *gems* out of SFxT, as they won't nearly have the same impact. The gameplay it's the same: it can take more or less time to kill your opponent, but as boost gems go, their addition doesn't bring anything new to gameplay.

And no, my views are not conservative, not in the slightest. I was >eager< to experiment with gems. Turns out, they didn't really add the layer of depth they promised, even less now that we have "official" presets. It's as simple as that.

About the last question: have you ever actually watched a tournament? A big one? You know how much does it actually take to have EVERY player choose their own loadout? Why do you think dawgtanian came up with those presets? Why do you think the community tried to come up with new ideas like dials etc?

Finally: try harder. My "this doesn't belong etc" was obviously to referred to assist gems alone, who do crap like teching for you. If that is your idea of innovation or what we should have in future fighting games, if you think a game should tech or block for you, I won't even bother replying. You can go abuse that garbage on live/PSN.

This is whack. Really wanted to see something creative at Evo! Alot you can do with meter gems. I'm really starting to dislike "Mr.Wizard's" decision making.

#32:

"Supers *are* core mechanics."

No they aren't. Most fighting games with meter are functional without anything meter related. Vanilla SF4 had a challenge where Super and Revenge meters were removed, as well as Charged Attacks. Albeit boring, the game worked just fine. Think of the distinction as Core Mechanics vs Feature Mechanics if that helps.

"You can't take Supers/Ultras/Hypers out of SF4 or MvC3..."

Yes you can.

"...While you can definitely take *gems* out of SFxT, as they won't nearly have the same impact. The gameplay it's the same: it can take more or less time to kill your opponent, but as boost gems go, their addition doesn't bring anything new to gameplay."

What you're arguing is the main point of most buff-type perk systems, which are static when active and rarely meant to alter things like, say, a DBZ transformation. People have already fashioned strategies with Gems so they activate in a controlled way. It does alter gameplay in a minimalistic yet unique way.

I mean... if their impact is so moot why do you rally against them? You don't have to buy them and Assist Gems aren't running rampant like people cry. You can't say how useless they are and then be so bothered as to see them extinct.

"I was >eager< to experiment with gems. Turns out, they didn't really add the layer of depth they promised, even less now that we have "official" presets."

What Ono promised came to pass; my Asuka Gem loadout will not be the same as another Asuka player's. He may value meter gain while I aim to deal damage. He may look forward to a Pandora buff while I wanna give her speed buffs against a certain character he choose. This is exactly what Ono meant with the infamous "My Ryu is not your Ryu" speech and it works as intended. If you fail to appreciate or recognize that, and you were looking for something akin to customizing entire properties and moves-sets, I'm truly sorry.

"About the last question: have you ever actually watched a tournament? A big one? You know how much does it actually take to have EVERY player choose their own loadout?"

How about players write down their Gem codes in case they make top 16 or so when (I and others think) they should be allowed to input them? Inputting codes they have in advance would add 30secs tops to final matches. Maybe less than that. You treat it as if they'd be writing a dissertation before each match.

"Finally: try harder. My "this doesn't belong etc" was obviously to referred to assist gems alone, who do crap like teching for you. If that is your idea of innovation or what we should have in future fighting games, if you think a game should tech or block for you, I won't even bother replying. You can go abuse that garbage on live/PSN."

With this strawman dribble, it is you who should try harder. My points were made clear enough that this comes off as misrepresentation. Don't do that. You've been a decent convo so far and I'd hate to see you go out like this.

I'd rather gems be removed completely but if they want to use them then I agree with default. Who gives a rat's face about the uniqueness? By that logic then at tournies every player should be allowed to go customize their colours too. I know there's different combinations to preference but still, way too time consuming.

@4: It does kind of defeat the purpose of having custom presets but not as much as not allowing gems at all. :)

Besides, uniqueness will disappear if people can custom gems. Everyone will find the best gems and abuse them. Then before you know it, tournies, online, locally with friends... Every player will be using the exact same gems. Only takes one exploit. Look at spamming in umvc3. Yeah I went there.

#36:

Agreed, I guess. But I really like the idea of letting finals players use their own sets.

@ #34

This is why I need a proper quotation/reply system, we're in 2k13 geez. Anyway:

> Albeit boring

Here, you said yourself. Developers put new dynamics into a game to make it enjoyable and exciting, trying to give a fresh take on the franchise. You know, parries and ultras.

But yeah, the panda here is the one whose view is conservative - not the guy who says we can play just fine stripping our current fighters of their core dynamics and go back to ST.

> In a minimalistic

There you go. If the impact is minimalistic, and you agree on that, what are we even discussing?

Or are you arguing that gems are 'unique'? They can be 'unique' as much as you want, they're not a brilliant concept - not how SFxT handled them.

You pick 3x Def? I pick 3x Atk or 3x Meter, the effects sorta nullify. Or I can pick 3x Def and we can make the game even more sluggish and painful to watch. Or we can be stupid and gamble on Pandora, while our opponent takes the zero risk approach.

What's left? Back down if your opponent glows red, blue or purple, or don't go crazy on him if he's yellow because it's not worth it? Is this really the impactful dynamic you're presenting to me?

I want my games to be better than this.

> What Ono promised

I couldn't care less what he promises, if they don't make an impact they're irrelevant. Matter of fact, the only gems truly affecting the game were assist gems, and we all know how that ended:

Fighting games foundamentals (block and tech) removed, same for tricky crossups -> more timeouts -> assist gems get banned -> the whole FGC hates on gems -> gems are taken out.

Guess what happens now with just 5 presets? The purpose of gems gets completely neglected. My Ryu has now a much higher chance of being the same Ryu as yours.

> How about players write down

There's hundreds, if not thousands of players in a tournament. All of them having to pick their loadout takes ages when their 30 seconds add up man.

And sorry but no. Either the whole tourney goes with the 'own loadout' format, or you stick with presets. If you have to compromise on such things then you know something is not working there.

And of course we know that's the way things stand at at the moment, if the own loadout option was viable stay assured we would've had gems in tourns by now.

> With this strawman dribble

Oh god the strawman stuff.

Look I don't care about 'decent conversation' or all of that whiteknighting nonsense, I'm here to confront people and share ideas and that's what I'm doing, you like my way of doing that or not. If you don't, I honestly cannot care less - see avatar.

That being said: when I tell someone 'I'm not playing a fighting game which blocks or tech for me, or even worse wants me to pay to autoblock and autotech' and said people tells me 'you're not in a position to say that', I just end it there, because that guy is just trying to argue with me instead of discussing game dynamics.

Sorry about the quote cuts, it appears there's a 3k characters limit lol.

gtfopanda:

Gonna keep it short, 3k limit got me last time as well.

"Developers put new dynamics into a game to make it enjoyable and exciting, trying to give a fresh take on the franchise. You know, parries and ultras."

Funny you mention those two because they got about as much controversy as Gems. People react to change in any form as blasphemy, which is why I mentioned the conservative thing.

"But yeah, the panda here is the one whose view is conservative - not the guy who says we can play just fine stripping our current fighters of their core dynamics and go back to ST."

I wasn't promoting that, merely presenting a case for the distinction between core gameplay and systems on top.

"There you go. If the impact is minimalistic, and you agree on that, what are we even discussing?"

That they add an interesting facet to gameplay and thus earned its place.

"You pick 3x Def? I pick 3x Atk or 3x Meter, the effects sorta nullify. Or I can pick 3x Def and we can make the game even more sluggish and painful to watch. Or we can be stupid and gamble on Pandora, while our opponent takes the zero risk approach."

You're underselling the strategy, ignoring characters at play and players controlling them. And you know this. You seem to have a disingenuous streak.

"I couldn't care less what he promises, if they don't make an impact they're irrelevant."

Perhaps you should reword that quote, then.

"There's hundreds, if not thousands of players in a tournament. All of them having to pick their loadout takes ages when their 30 seconds add up man."

I like how you write this and then try to cover your tracks with:

"And sorry but no. Either the whole tourney goes with the 'own loadout' format, or you stick with presets."

There is no reasoning for this ultimatum, other than to assist your case. Explain why it is either/or, I'd love to hear it.

"I'm here to confront people and share ideas and that's what I'm doing, you like my way of doing that or not."

You're not the first to showcase this 'forum rebel' attitude, but you all say the same thing: You don't wanna be held accountable for what you say or how you say it. You all care enough to post but when your tact is called out you're all 'rebels without a cause'. In my opinion; shortsighted. Only shortsighted people disregard tact and reproach - in my observation.

"That being said: when I tell someone 'I'm not playing a fighting game which blocks or tech for me, or even worse wants me to pay to autoblock and autotech' and said people tells me 'you're not in a position to say that'."

Literally nobody has reacted to you on those terms.

@ #41

The 3k limit was new to me lol.

> You're underselling the strategy, ignoring characters at play and players controlling them.

No, I'm not. You can argue that you gotta think which gems fit your characters best, but once you pick a loadout it's your opponent that has to deal with them. And at that point what I wrote in my previous post applies.

> There is no reasoning for this ultimatum, other than to assist your case. Explain why it is either/or, I'd love to hear it.

I thought it was rather obvious, but since you missed it: just as we cannot have best of 5 SF tourneys (they would take too much time), we can't have 'own loadout' formats because of time constraints.

Only, it's fair to get best of 5 during Grand Finals, but it isn't with gems because they are actually part of the game, not part of the round format.

You want to play a tourney with 'gems off' qualifiers and 'gems on' top 16? Be my guest, I just wouldn't want that, and it's because they're 2 different things gameplay wise, even with gems not making much of an impact.

I already said it in my above post: the moment you have to compromise on dynamics you know something's not working.

The gem idea doesn't mesh with current tournaments format, thus them being taken out, then the dial suggestions, and now the presets. It's not that hard to see.

> You're not the first to showcase this 'forum rebel' attitude

Uh, forum rebel.

There's a difference between not being accountable for one's post (why wouldn't I? If that was the case, why would I bother replying to you? I could've posted my reply and never open this very news again) and simply going overboard with the netiquette, which seems to be your case.

I don't need to tell people 'you're being rude' to lower their points.

> Literally nobody has reacted to you on those terms.

You wrote the following, and that was the message I got.

"I also contend with your stance that you think you know what 'should and shouldn't be' in a fighting game."

And I believe I 'know'. Just as you 'know' and just as everybody else in these boards 'knows'. Because we're just expressing our ideas on how to make the games we like better.

I don't know which controversy parry sparked at the time, but its impact on the game it's just on a totally different level compared to gems. Will be funny to see how the game evolve in like 7 years, if it's really me be the shortsighted one or it's actually you giving way too much credit to gems.

@42
Just want to point out that your "compromise on dynamics" is a issued caused by tournaments and not caused by gems.

CVS2 used to consume a lot of time and Smash is going to do so as well at Evo this year. It's not up to the developers to reduce the timer or health but it's really up to the organizers on how they want to handle it.

@ #43

That is a very good point, at times you fail to see things from a different perspective. Only, how do we go about addressing it?

I mean you obviously don't make a competitive (SFxT is supposed to be one, or at least they go around balancing it for that very reason, and for that very reason they tweaked the gem selection) fighting game with only a 'some guys are gonna have tournaments' mindset, you're focusing on the game first and foremost.

But that has lead to where we are, where we have to take some ideas (either we think they're good or not) out because otherwise bigger tournaments would take forever, or they'd require more space and console/screens.

It's a tough one, really. Something like a USB with all your setup, not linked to a specific Live/PSN account (ie, you plug it in usb port 1 for P1 and that's it) could work? Like the player cards at the japanese arcades.

Just let me have meter and offense gems and I'm good. I am still using my own setup for online play though.

Haunts ‏@haunts
"I think once people get the method of selecting gems down it will take about as long as selecting a groove, characters & ratio in CVS2."
17 Apr 12
Jimmy Tran ‏@jimmyjtran
"@haunts I seem to average about 15 seconds from beginning of picking the first gem to after picking the sixth gem, not too much time at all"
02 May 12
Jimmy Tran ‏@jimmyjtran
"@OneTimeHeroii @iplaywinner I personally like gems. They add flavor/variation/depth, while not overly swaying the tide of a match."

via TWITTER

I'll just leave these here.

Gems kick ass btw.

Just introduce a time limit on and character/gem selections and button checks. Button checks often eat up the most time anyway.

Rule 1
NO dlc gems
-The real problem here is logistics and cost. Thanks Capcom!
Rule 2
2 minute limit char/gem select
-if you don't know your gems, or are too slow, THEN go with presets
Rule 3
Don't be a baby
-Don't like gems? Think they're unfair? Don't want to remember anything/write something down? TOO BAD.

@Kalyx_triaD

How much are they paying you to defend this piece of sheet? The gem sets are ass and don't add anything meaningful to an already boring and sluggish game.

I wish the people that "like" SFxT would go away and admit that for once Capcom screwed up.

Also screw Mr. Wizard too. He promised this won't be at EVO.

@Shaddox: I wish the people that "dislike" SF X TKN would go away and quit pretending like everyone has to dislike it with them. Remember, the FGC did this crap with MVC3 AND SFIV. They took time, but now they're FGC staples, and SFIV is even in IPL.

If people can "like" a game with the most broken, imbalanced, glitched up gameplay ever made in all fighting game history (you know what I'm referring to), then people have the right to like a FAR MORE balanced, tame, and less random game like this one.

On topic: Presets are fine. It's the perfect middle ground that resembles the groove system from CvS2. I'd have liked for there to be customizable gem options, but eh. Doing it this way works too. Lets just settle on that.

This blind hate of SFXT needs to stop.

Fighter games from the beginning were suppose to not have the super meter, or even combos similar to real-life fights from Boxing, Karate, Wrestling etc. but until Art of Fighting created a meter to charge up and create powerful moves.

Look every game mechanic needs to be welcome, including Gems.
Thats what I call treating games & mechanics with equal rights.

Most of the gamers are very stupid, acting like a crybaby everytime a SFXT topic comes up or anything relating to Gems. Even if their supporting the games they "so called" loved, is completely delusional and knows nothing about the reality of videogames in general. Heck these gamers are asking for is stale ideas, or a recreation of Call of Duty style type game. Gamers hate new gameplay ideas, honestly their not true gamers as me. As a true gamer I accept and welcome anything including Gems, even be happy for what the game is. While other gamers are just plain children and ungreatful asking for things they don't like which is pointless, asking for a character which they have no control, or don't know the meaning of how business works.

Honestly hating the Gem concept is really the wrong way of the FGC, look at least tournament community found away to make the gems less time consuming. For people complaining that gems can be abused, its not really an abused system if you know how to balance it (removing it is not the answer) people will find ways to abuse any game, like MvC3 spamming the same special over & over.

@mohandu Maybe Mr. Wizard should have been following these guys on Twitter. :)

I love how arguments over anything Capcom related is reduced to "how much is capcom paying you to defend this crap?!" lol. People are mad sfxt is still around and not anime fighter 223143.