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Capcom considering weighting damage reduction on certain characters when using double ultra in Ultra Street Fighter 4

Posted by Catalyst
December 17, 2013 at 10:09 p.m. PST

Capcom's David "Dawgtanian" Hinds took to the Twitterverse earlier today to talk about some of the changes they're looking at in Ultra Street Fighter 4.

Dawgtanian covers possibly weighting the damage reduction for certain characters when using the double ultra mechanic, if they benefit from it too greatly, and discusses the delayed wake up mechanic.

It's very important to note that none of the things discussed here are set in stone. Hit the jump to see Dawgtanian's responses.

On the subject of delayed wake up, Hinds noted that they've added a visual heads up when someone uses it now.

Comments

Kijui said on December 17, 2013 at 10:13 p.m.

Maybe they can alter the way the Ultras work in W as well. This way, combos and set-ups are unique in utility and not just damage

#1
Ascender said on December 17, 2013 at 10:30 p.m.

I hope they individually set the damage for everyone's double ultras.
So that everyone can have a viable reason for Double Ultra.

#2
OTheVariousKing said on December 17, 2013 at 10:43 p.m.

My two cents would be to keep the W Ultra mechanic consistent for all characters, but change the individual ultras for balance. I dunno, I just don't like the sound of weighted damage.

#3
HooliganComboFTW said on December 17, 2013 at 10:46 p.m.

It should be character specific values for Double Ultra.

Like how in the new P4A game each character now has different amount of Persona cards based on how reliant they are at using them.

#4
GodPride said on December 17, 2013 at 10:58 p.m.

They should make Double Ultra the only option then they'll have an easier time balancing it and people will adapt eventually.

#5
Topaz said on December 17, 2013 at 11:19 p.m.

This isn't new information. Combofiend mentioned in the original Super Arcade test stream that they were considering setting the damage reduction for each character's Double Ultras individually.

#6
Goukin said on December 17, 2013 at 11:28 p.m.

I can see another nerf stick beating gouken over the head. the last one was bad enough took 100 damage for a back throw what does what 1 percent damage. I mean really Capcom did you even think that ryu's DP fadc into ultra 1 is the same as doing it with out the DP!!!!! But you take 100 damage from Gouken for a backthrow 504 no throw 404 with the throw!!!!! fine make the throw do 100 damage then dock him the damage!!!!!!!! F'n dumb

#7
IronFlower said on December 17, 2013 at 11:42 p.m.

"this double ultra is going to make GIEF so much better!"

Are you kidding me?? U1 will be as a HP SPD, just useless

#8
MaysTheCraze said on December 18, 2013 at 12:05 a.m.

They have character specific damage for regular Ultras, so why not Double Ultra too? I really don't see the problem.

#9
AugustAPC said on December 18, 2013 at 12:09 a.m.

The values should be individually set.

#10
Wedge said on December 18, 2013 at 12:14 a.m.

They're already practically useless, so sure, why not.

#11
oghaggard said on December 18, 2013 at 12:16 a.m.

Just the word "technical" popping up on one side of the screen as with a quick rise isn't good enough. Would be nice if they made the character flash or something.

#12
oghaggard said on December 18, 2013 at 12:21 a.m.

I think in the case of Zangief and the other grapplers, what they'll likely do is scale down the damage for U1 just slightly, but scale down the damage for U2 pretty heavily. The whole point is to increase utility at the cost of damage, and being that U2 is what truly adds utility to Zangief's game plan, it's the ultra that should receive the majority of the damage reduction in Zangief's "Ultra W" setup.

To put it in other words, there's no reason that Zangief's (or anyone else's) Ultra W setup has to be X% (say 66%) damage for both ultras. U1 can be 75%, U2 can be 50%, etc.

#13
sarif2soon said on December 18, 2013 at 12:43 a.m.

"I'd rather wait until we've 100% decided on what's staying in to avoid disappointment."

If you want to avoid disappointment, tell us everything now so we can tell you what to keep >:(

#14
jme said on December 18, 2013 at 1:04 a.m.

I think a good to balance this is to let W ultra meter build faster.

25% damage = 50% W ultra meter.

That way, the stupid damage is justified.

#15
Neobrown said on December 18, 2013 at 1:11 a.m.

NO, JUST NO! Keep it simple, just half the damage in Double Ultra mode. Simple as that!

#16
Xykes said on December 18, 2013 at 1:21 a.m.

U1 grabs in 1 frame. SPD grabs in 2 frames.

This means U1 punishes things that SPD cannot.

Even with reduced damage, this will be very useful.

Stop oversimplifying things.

#17
perfume said on December 18, 2013 at 1:29 a.m.

Doesn't work that way bub. Everyone's ultra does different damage. Hooligan's idea is perfect.

#18
metaf4 said on December 18, 2013 at 1:37 a.m.
(This comment was hidden because it was down voted. You can view it by clicking here.)

By the way I know who the 5th character is in Ultra SF4....its Asura.

They pretty much already gave us a full demo of the character since the game Asura's Rath. Here's the proof: http://youtu.be/Q3jlJbM6K5I

Characters moves, combos, supers...even character intros and opening VS profile.

#19
Aqua said on December 18, 2013 at 1:48 a.m.
#20
Quezacoatl said on December 18, 2013 at 1:51 a.m.

4 months earlier, Ono: it's not Asura

4 days earlier, Ono: it's a girl

Today: GAIS ITS ASURA

#21
McAl said on December 18, 2013 at 2:13 a.m.

Some sort of visual cue, such as the one used in Capcom vs SNK 2 on delayed wakeup, would be much more suitable than just the words "Technical" popping up. Or perhaps both.

#22
LordProsper said on December 18, 2013 at 2:21 a.m.

Asura has been deconfirmed just about every time they've talked about the 5th character, so I don't know what gave you the idea it was him.

#23
I_Are_RaBBiT said on December 18, 2013 at 2:23 a.m.

From watching the Ultra match video's I could have sworn the W Ultra already builds faster than normal Ultra. If its gonna be weaker, it would make sense to build up faster, I agree!

#24
msdrakegx said on December 18, 2013 at 2:27 a.m.

The only way I see Double Ultra working is if they make both ultras do full damage. The catch is that you gain meter half as fast when double ultra is active. For example, you would only just get your ultra when near death. To get a full meter you would need to use focus. I think that would be the coolest way to implement the new ultra system instead of this ridiculous weighted damage reduction. That way the ultra damage would be scaled but would have the potential to do max damage.

#25
ShadowGeno said on December 18, 2013 at 2:32 a.m.

That's dlc from Asura's Wrath fyi ...

#26
maxi2099 said on December 18, 2013 at 2:36 a.m.

I can't believe there's still noobs asking for more nerfs to Zangief.

#27
RebornOdin said on December 18, 2013 at 3:02 a.m.

It would be better if it said "Delayed" instead of "Technical" when you do a delayed wakeup.

#28
coddog said on December 18, 2013 at 3:27 a.m.

(This user was banned.)

#29
TheAlmightyVox said on December 18, 2013 at 3:43 a.m.

Yes, it's dumb that Gouken is unable to hit someone for half damage off of one throw. Don't compare that to Ryu's FADC Ultra, that costs two meters. Gouken gets his for free.

#30
yes4me said on December 18, 2013 at 3:47 a.m.

Double ultra is perfect for Rose, Elena, Zangief
Double ultra is useless for Fei Long, Cammy, Ryu

In 6 months, I bet everyone will pick the same way for each character... which beg the question: is it really a feature?

#31
trinispartan said on December 18, 2013 at 4:19 a.m.

I think the shotos will all be top tier. Followed by good zoners like chun and guile. Anyone without a projectile or good reversal will be screwed.

#32
samuraix025 said on December 18, 2013 at 4:36 a.m.

Gouken gets full ultra of a back throw and you're complaining about 1 hit of gray dmg?

don't mind him everyone he's drunk

#33
grahamwolfe said on December 18, 2013 at 4:50 a.m.

so if they are planning on weighting the ultras then honda will be the best

...also why do they call it xbox one, thats stupid since i owned the xbox 360 before it

#34
sarif2soon said on December 18, 2013 at 5:25 a.m.

ASURA IS FEMALE?!?!

#35
XeroDgX said on December 18, 2013 at 5:31 a.m.

also Akuma agaisnt certaing chars (Cammy for example, free teleports without punish with cammy's ultra), cammy and Fei against certain chars too

#36
drxhunter said on December 18, 2013 at 5:37 a.m.

It seems you're oversimplifying too! that does not justify the 1 frame advantage!

I mean ... unless you can do a standing 720/540! :)

#37
fawaz said on December 18, 2013 at 5:58 a.m.

I've already said it that delayed wake-up will complicate things. It will take away the element of simplicity for which SF series is known & famous. I'm saying this from casual gamers' perspective.

#38
Kurow said on December 18, 2013 at 6:01 a.m.

Double Ultra damage is already bad and they want to reduce the damage even more? Zangief players are going to stick to Ultra 2 or 1 and they do not even want to use it because of low damage.

#39
XeroDgX said on December 18, 2013 at 6:04 a.m.

I dont think FADC is friendly to casuals either, and still look how SF4 has grown with it (that is something that's so basic for this game that's even on the trials).....

#40
DarknessFallz said on December 18, 2013 at 6:06 a.m.

Rose gains no benefit from double ultra considering her u1 is basically useless since it takes years to come out and as an anti air it requires you to predict the future and her U2 is so much better across the board so I predict that all 10 Rose users in the world will stick to just U2 for the damage to stay the way it is; but grapplers definitely gain a benefit without a doubt

#41
Mike said on December 18, 2013 at 6:15 a.m.

It was NEVER 50%. It was originally 2/3 the damage of each ultra.

#42
acku said on December 18, 2013 at 6:37 a.m.

(This user was banned.)

#43
put_Garuda_in_SFIV said on December 18, 2013 at 6:42 a.m.

Gouken's throw to ultra is so lame

#44
fawaz said on December 18, 2013 at 6:45 a.m.

I know. But why complicate things even more? I don't agree that SFIV evolved because of mechanics like FADC. I think the current changes i.e. Double Ultra and Red Focus along with all the balance changes are enough for this game. They should now concentrate more on the cosmetic look and content of the game because the truth is, that's what appeals to the majority of gamers around the world who are responsible for CAPCOM's success or failure with this title.

#45
freeHUGS said on December 18, 2013 at 7:22 a.m.

The damage on double ultra is too LOW for Zangief. I swear noobs have no idea how the character works; just bad players getting their mashing mashed out online by bad Zangiefs. Ugh, the game is 5 years old, can we please balance around competitive play now and stop catering to scrubs who don't even know what a frame trap is?

#46
Codech64 said on December 18, 2013 at 8:08 a.m.

If your opponent throws a meaty you can use U1...If your opponent jumps away onyour wake up,use U2.Everyone knows that when people play against a Gief they will try to bait his Spd U1 as soon as possible...with both ultras now the opponent has to think exactly what to do...so yeah Gief is benefitted from this.

#47
Codech64 said on December 18, 2013 at 8:14 a.m.

The only nerf that everyone wanted was his spd range lowered...you gotta admit it was unfair.And lower both the lariat's invincibility.His St M.punch beats almost everything.

#48
alsontxh said on December 18, 2013 at 8:18 a.m.

I m not very up for the UU ultras. Y not more supers instead?

#49
Codech64 said on December 18, 2013 at 8:18 a.m.

I main Cody...so yeah I know ALOT when it comes to frame traps.I agree on the ultra double being lowered,it's unfair for Gief but what do you want?His Lariat's invincibility lowered or the double ultra nerf...when I think about it,Lariat is pretty unfair...

#50
alsontxh said on December 18, 2013 at 8:30 a.m.

I main a gief guess wat. Its never easy playing a gief. But hey, i nv say i wanted it easy. More like, its harder for a gief to really abuse his tools. For every character, u can put his tools to good use up to the extent i call it abuse. But for gief, not much abuse i can do. U can noe many ways to use, lets say ryu. But gief? U can only walk forward! We dun wan to get baited, but we have no choice. We have to walk into it becos we are tat fearless. Becos we wan to get close n abuse our tools which is our high dmg output. Gimme a W ultra but nerf the damage? How wud i inflict fear then? I wan a fairer game tats all. Nerf my spd all u wan. i rely on more than just range to land a spd. Giving me a unpunishable lp green hand on hit is a gd start. Next, make far hk spd actually useful. And, knock down hp isnt really useful. Lastly, more ways to land u2. Hope i m not asking for 2 much.

#51
Xykes said on December 18, 2013 at 8:44 a.m.

If we're talking about PUNISHING moves that are -1, then you would be in BLOCK STUN while doing the 720. If you're in BLOCK STUN, then you won't jump, and you can do the 720 easily.

Anyone good SF player can do that.

#52
Kijui said on December 18, 2013 at 9 a.m.

Hi, I main Dan...

#53
XeroDgX said on December 18, 2013 at 9:16 a.m.

Guess the combination of Super and U2 is way of better than this Double ultra thing for Gief, hell, If you dont want to use your super for this a normal SPD/U2 mix up will suit better than the double ultra cause the SPD will do almost the same amount of damage than U1 when using Double Ultras (and less complicated input), and you'll still have your U2 with full damage in case the oponent jumps....

#54
Green016 said on December 18, 2013 at 9:32 a.m.

@27 And these are the clueless people Capcom listens to it seems. Sadly, it seems even Combofiend thinks Gief is op for some reason which is just sad. Right now Gief is straight up trash in Ultra thx to all the scrubs complaining about him. Good job guys mission accomplished.

#55
freeHUGS said on December 18, 2013 at 10 a.m.

lol, This is exactly what I'm talking about. People cry and have no clue. Lariat is a 4 frame move which means it's hilariously easy to safe jump. It's also COMPLETELY THROWABLE and only FADC'able on the first few frames. It is NOT a SRK.

If you're regularly getting hit by lariat, it's because you're jumping at Gief (aka, you're a scrub) or your combos aren't tight enough and you're getting reversal'd. Neither of those makes lariat unfair.

#56
NumeroGaijin said on December 18, 2013 at 10:14 a.m.

I disagree with not listing the current changes. My reasoning is because if you list them now then those of us who do make up the bulk of the fan base but also play this game more seriously than just super casual players will be able to discuss and give feedback on it at least from a certain perspective. I hope they truly don't decide to wait until everything is final to list what truly changed because by then even something demoralizing will already be done to characters (without entirely extensive thought and feedback) that people rarely play such as say......Gen or Hakan. I have noticed a trend in the loc tests and I noticed that certain players characters managed to get by with a lot of cheapness while less played characters got stuck with some crappy options because there wasn't a big enough voice behind the players of specific characters to challenge and discuss changes. I want to eliminate that silly perception that some have. For example, oh its Dan....he shouldn't have any good tools because he is Dan so let's overlook his potential.

#57
Sage_Liebert said on December 18, 2013 at 10:29 a.m.

It seems like Fei and Cammy would benefit greatly from double ultra. They both usually kill you without depending on their Ultra 1's. Having their counter ultra as well gives options and makes opponents scared to press a button, which let's them pressure you easier.

As for Ultra Double damage, they should balance each characters ultra damage individually.

Full Ultra Bar (current)
Metsu Hadouken 369
Metsu Shoryuken 503

Ultra Double Full Bar
Metsu Hadouken 298
Metsu Shoryuken 310

#58
Plasma3D said on December 18, 2013 at 11:54 a.m.

ok
what moves??
i only used u1 as a punish against sagats ex tiger knee
seths srk fadc fei longs 2nd hit of ex rekka

now ex tiger knee is 0
srks are nerfed
so i only pic W ultra to punish fei longs 2nd hit of ex rekka ??
L2P

#59
Goukin said on December 18, 2013 at 12:01 p.m.

Im not drunk check it out 404 with back throw 504 without they are docking the ultra 100 damage for 1 gray damage for the throw. Most ultras do the same damage when 1 hit is added into FADC or other move. Gouken loses 100 damage for just the throw. yes I know its lame but the loss of damage is not right when it don't apply to others in the game. Besides if you don't tec the slowest throw in the game you have it coming!!!!

#60
Paramisery said on December 18, 2013 at 12:48 p.m.

I don't know why people think Zangief players will love double ultra. As a lifelong Gief player I don't see a reason why I'd use it. The damage reduction is way too much to be useful for him. U2 would do under 200 damage with the reduction, a tiger scar uppercut from sagat would do roughly the same damage. Hardly a round changer.

#61
Paramisery said on December 18, 2013 at 12:52 p.m.

With the damage reduction just take the hit and continue the match. Problem solved.

#62
Cyan said on December 18, 2013 at 1:10 p.m.

I demand "Zero Ultra" as an addition: No Ultra, more overall damage.

#63
ABSOLute said on December 18, 2013 at 1:13 p.m.

I had a similar idea. Basically, the more consistent ultras would have the most damage reduction i.e. the current 60% [-40% reduction], but the more situational ultras would have a lower damage reduction.

Using C.Viper as an example:
Ultra 1 = 60% max damage
Ultra 2 = 80% max damage

That way, it will encourage the use of lesser used ultras and the double ultra mechanic overall.
The damage reduction would, of course, have to vary depending on the character for the sake of balance.

#64
Cyan said on December 18, 2013 at 1:22 p.m.

Basically, the more consistent ultras would have the most damage reduction i.e. the current 60% [-40% reduction], but the more situational ultras would have a lower damage reduction.

Using M.Bison as an example:
Ultra 1 = 100% max damage
Ultra 2 = 100% max damage

Kappa

#65
freeHUGS said on December 18, 2013 at 2:16 p.m.

^ See? Somebody who knows WTF they're talking about. What use will double ultra be if it does comparable damage to an SPD? His damage output has already been lowered since he can't combo into EX GH anymore; who will be afraid of an ultra that does less than 300 damage full stock??

People see the 50/50 and without knowing a damn thing about the character just automatically start crying 'OP.' The funny thing is, the whiners are too dumb to realize what someone pointed out above: Gief already has this setup with super/U2 and it hurts a lot more. But please keep crying so you can flowchart people easier online.

#66
TagAnarchy said on December 18, 2013 at 3:17 p.m.

With how capcom has been recently, I wouldn't be surprised.

Personally, I've been lobbying for Asura since day one so I'd be happy, but that would still be breaking the promise that they made everyone if capcom went and used him which I don't condone.

#67
RedEther said on December 18, 2013 at 3:50 p.m.

This is the kind of talk which will kill your game. Elitism will get you nowhere unless you want SFIV to end up like 3s. Change is good capcom just don't change too much and it will turn out fine.

#68
L45R said on December 18, 2013 at 7:03 p.m.

From the location test footage, I already thought the damage scale too much with Double Ultra activated...I mean...what's the point of ultra if Gief's HP SPD deals even more damage lol...Capcom..don't forget Gief's ultra is never hit confirm like what you can do with Ryu/Rufus...

#69
oghaggard said on December 18, 2013 at 7:48 p.m.

Ryu's/Rufus' ultras aren't unblockable or activated in 1 frame, either...

#70
oghaggard said on December 18, 2013 at 7:52 p.m.

The "ideas" feedback phase of development is over. Meaning, the only people allowed to give input on the game from this stage onward are the people who actually get to play the game (i.e. at a location test or some other event). Finding out what "just anyone" (and I say that as someone who is considered "just anyone") thinks of certain changes when they haven't tested them hands-on is not useful information for Capcom at this point.

#71
oghaggard said on December 18, 2013 at 8:02 p.m.

"who will be afraid of an ultra that does less than 300 damage on full stock??"

Uh, jeez, I dunno, someone with less than 300 health facing a Gief with full ultra meter? Pretty scary in a tournament setting...

In any case, I have the solution to all of your problems, bro: don't pick Ultra W for Gief. Play the way you want to play. That's why Ultra W is an option, and not mandatory.

Let's also remember that the game is more than four months away from seeing release in arcades, and six months away from seeing release for consoles...

#72
XeroDgX said on December 19, 2013 at 5 a.m.

That's not the point, Gief is a "all the time in all games" limited character, is mandatory for him to get hit before he can reach the opponent so he can try to connect, his jumps float too much (easy anti air, and please don't mention U2 cause you don't start the round with a full ultra meter), big size character (easy to hit), both of his ultra are difficult to land if you compare it with the rest of the cast, one of his so little PROs is his damage output so, if in this update there's a new mechanic for all characters, why not do it viable for everybody, not just for the ones who already have tools in this game, this Ultra W thing would be great for Gief, but the damage reduction is just to much and isn't worth it for the options he already has, take half of your full damage to fill your ultra bar (or get risky doing FA) so you can try to pull out an ultra that in the holy case you land it with full bar will make only 300???, realy?? I rather use a SPD cause has more range, case stun and is more easy to pull out on reaction, remember, Gief is scary with a full ultra because of the damage output, not because is just an ultra

#73
liamdmc said on January 8, 2014 at 9:21 a.m.

ryu's ultra's both accomplish the same but cammy and fei long both have a counter ultra and offense ultra. if anything these too characters benefit the most. now they dont need to pick ultra 2. people are naturally gona be scared to pressure them when the have w ultra as counter. but on the opposite end they are winning for an increased lead ultra 1 combos.

#74


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