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Community leaders talk about collusion and pot splitting in fighting game tournaments

Posted by SFilp • April 15, 2013 at 5:16 p.m. PDT
Some people felt that the Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 grand finals at Texas Showdown between EG|Justin Wong and AGE|NYChrisG was an example of collusion or pot splitting. Since that time, there has been a lot of discussion on Twitter from from many notable names in the community on this subject.

Below is a short excerpt from the official EVO tournament rules on collusion, from Tom Cannon.

Collusion of any kind with your competitors is considered cheating. If the Tournament Director determines that any competitor is colluding to manipulate the results or intentionally underperforming, the collaborating players may be immediately disqualified. This determination is to be made at the sole discretion of the Tournament Director. Anyone disqualified in this manner forfeits all rights to any titles or prizes they might have otherwise earned for that tournament.

We have gathered quotes from Justin Wong, ChrisG, MarkMan (Mad Catz) and Victor Fontanez (Team Spooky) into the story here so you can see what is being discussed and offer your thoughts on the subject as well.

After Justin Wong and ChrisG played their first match of the Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 grand finals at Texas Showdown by random selecting their teams, they posted the following statements on their respective Twitter accounts. Note: After the first match, both competitors played their main teams, and the random select match apparently did not count towards the outcome of the tournament.

You can find more of the discussion by checking out the respective Twitter pages linked above in the embeds.

Comments

Virtua_Kazama said on April 15, 2013 at 5:19 p.m.

Oh what the hell?

#1
DaSavage said on April 15, 2013 at 5:19 p.m.

No one cares about pot splitting.

But half-assing it and making it boring to watch is freaking annoying.

#2
shinwar said on April 15, 2013 at 5:19 p.m.

And here we go

#3
illness690 said on April 15, 2013 at 5:20 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#4
Graphf said on April 15, 2013 at 5:20 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#5
LaziestUsernameEver said on April 15, 2013 at 5:20 p.m.

There was no collusion and pot splitting is not the problem.

The problem is not playing out GFs. They want to split the money? Sure, it's their money, they can do what they want. But for the love of god, just play out the match.

#6
gammabolt17 said on April 15, 2013 at 5:21 p.m.

Damn I didn't think it would get this bad. Not surprised, but I didn't expect this blow up. Just wanna hear what ChrisG has to say about this, because he seems pissed at being came at like this. Unapologetic as hell, and almost as if he feels insulted. Like he almost wanted to start somethin so he could say his piece.

#7
Graphf said on April 15, 2013 at 5:22 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#8
Dragoomba said on April 15, 2013 at 5:22 p.m.

I might be one of the few that disagrees with the controversy. If nobody can prevent those two from getting into Grand Finals, then they deserve to f*cking suffer. Seriously. If anything, this gives players more of an incentive to improve and prevent them from getting into Grand Finals. Both Justin Wong and Chris G are going to be at Saltfest next month, a tournament in Salt Lake City. I REALLY hope they plan on doing this again, because if I can't knock either of them out before GF, then I've failed everyone there (the players and viewers) and deserve it. To the entire FGC; stop complaining and get better.

#9
error3 said on April 15, 2013 at 5:22 p.m.

If it happened in any other sport, it would be allowed.

#10
ShinzoBishamon said on April 15, 2013 at 5:24 p.m.

I'm glad nothing like this happens in KOF :D

#11
War_Destroyer said on April 15, 2013 at 5:24 p.m.

If you're gonna fake, sell it.

#12
HolyGhost said on April 15, 2013 at 5:26 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#13
ShinzoBishamon said on April 15, 2013 at 5:27 p.m.

@9 I like your attitude :D

#14
Dedemaru said on April 15, 2013 at 5:28 p.m.

I don't understand what the big deal is.

#15
KingKong said on April 15, 2013 at 5:29 p.m.

Chris G is a smart guy. He can effectively safely say that he was playing to win, because well, he knew he was going to win, it was all set up from the get go. Justin Wong just lied in his tweet, he didn't play with all his might after the 1st match. We're not newbies at marvel: we can tell when a player stops blocking on purpose.
Anway, people say that with pot splitting, there is nothing left on the line. Well I disagree. There is still the fundamental principle of competition: determining who is the best. That in itself is quite the incentive in my book.

#16
MetallicA said on April 15, 2013 at 5:32 p.m.

I was so disgusted I felt like never watching a Marvel tournament again, I was up till 8 AM where I live for the finals and that's what we got? A disgraceful pot split no effort fix? Completely disrespecting the 10,000+ stream viewers and spectators in the venue?

A competition shouldn't be like this, I know I'll get a lot of sh*t for saying this, but I'd never expect the Japanese to pull such crap because there's a thing that's called "Honor" in their book.

Shameful, saying that this has happened in the past doesn't justify it, what's wrong is wrong, when entering a competition, play your best to win, PERIOD.

#17
Virtua_Kazama said on April 15, 2013 at 5:34 p.m.

@Dragoomba

Train hard. That's all I can tell you if you want to prevent it from happening.

@Dedemaru

Read the rules at EVO, and then understand where the big deal is coming from.

#18
PropLeXed said on April 15, 2013 at 5:37 p.m.

Oh great, yet another old topic.

#19
gammabolt17 said on April 15, 2013 at 5:37 p.m.

@16

Agreed. I don't play in tourneys for money, but I can't remember the last game I played where I didn't care about winning. Dammit Milwaukee, why you can't have that competitive scene? I can't leave my family to be travellin all the time!

#20
RedEther said on April 15, 2013 at 5:39 p.m.

@9 I agree completely.

#21
UltraTien said on April 15, 2013 at 5:40 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#22
Catalyst said on April 15, 2013 at 5:40 p.m.

I think FGC realizes collusion is a bad look and will take further steps in the future to prevent it from happening.

I think from people's statements on Twitter, you can see this is not something people plan on doing again, and everyone wants to take steps to prevent it from happening again.

We posted this to show that this is being looked into and a lot of people care very much about it not happening.

That's not to say it won't happen, but I think there's a stronger united front against collusion now, and hopefully it discourages the practice in the future.

#23
FakeVariable said on April 15, 2013 at 5:43 p.m.

I don't see anything wrong with pot-splitting in practice or in principle.

However, if throwing matches is against the rules then that is pretty much all there is to it and nothing really to argue. Just don't do it.

Things are also different regarding sponsored players and event sponsors who all hold a stake in these events and in player performance. I imagine they do not like this type of thing and will make it clear to their players that they should not do it.

Beyond being against rules and/or against player/event sponsor agreements, I really don't see what the big deal is though. No one has a moral or ethical obligation to perform a certain way in a tournament unless there are outside factors that influence decisions such as stated above.

#24
Diablowarrior said on April 15, 2013 at 5:43 p.m.

man WOng tell them to sux ur stix thats why u paid and thats why they on the meat stix sonnnn lol

#25
Deckard_Cain said on April 15, 2013 at 5:44 p.m.

This kind of stuff gets you in hot water in e-sports but I guess we aint e-sports or any kind of sport or any kind of legitimate body. This is also why we never will be.

#26
ShinzoBishamon said on April 15, 2013 at 5:48 p.m.

@26 Im sure stuff like this goes on in other sports, they're just more subtle about it so people never find out.

#27
YouDontKnowMe said on April 15, 2013 at 5:48 p.m.

There is no recourse or penalty for this so why not do. It hurts the game but if individuals are focused on their individual reward then this is the result. The ironic part is these "top players" could benefit the most from the FGC growing. Bigger tournaments, more sponsors, larger pots, etc. However this type of action is what will keep that from happening.

#28
PropLeXed said on April 15, 2013 at 5:49 p.m.

Personally I have nothing against pot splitting because if two players get to grand finals then it's their choice and whatever BUT be smart about it and play it out so it at least looks real. Kinda of annoying seeing news like this on the front page when lets face it, pot splitting is as old as the FGC itself.

I also agree with #9, want these guys to stop pot splitting? stop them making it to grand finals.

#29
L said on April 15, 2013 at 5:52 p.m.

Random select in grand finals sounds super entertaining. What exactly was the problem?

#30
Benify said on April 15, 2013 at 5:54 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#31
YumaTsukumo said on April 15, 2013 at 5:55 p.m.

FGC trying to become ESports aaaAAAaaa

#32
Onislayer said on April 15, 2013 at 5:56 p.m.

I said this before... when PR Rog rage quit against ChrisG.
If you are a sponsored player, how dare you waist your sponsors money? If I paid someone to go do something in my name, I would all but shoot him in the face if he did not carry himself in a professional and ethical manner. I would never pay a guy to go compete with my name next to his so that he can just throw a match away. I would not send somebody 1000 miles away to just quit or not give it his best effort. WTF would I be supporting him for?
This isn't just "video games" anymore... there are people out there who grind their butts off trying to win tourneys, or get noticed, or get sponsored. We have people shelling out cash to make these events happen, and now we have players who are just throwing matches away or playing half heartedly. I would love the oppertunity to get paid to go out there and compete in a game I love to play for a chance to win prizes or gain some fame. Unfortunatly, the people who are talented enough to have that oppertunity seem like there taking it for granted. In that case, don't waste our time by giving us a half @ssed attempt and don't waste your sponsors money by not competing in good faith.

#33
HimynameisAdan88 said on April 15, 2013 at 5:57 p.m.

@9 Totally agree!!!

#34
CharlieKenSon said on April 15, 2013 at 5:59 p.m.

Yeah.. Me and my bro had a house tourny. We were spliting the pot but at least we still fought hard at the grand finals. Why not?!?! Even if u lose u get money. Lol

#35
chipndip said on April 15, 2013 at 6:03 p.m.

Why is it that bull s**t hits the fan primarily when UMVC3 is involved?

#36
tidestick said on April 15, 2013 at 6:05 p.m.

When's Mahvel? Says the split.

#37
edrigo said on April 15, 2013 at 6:06 p.m.

It's about integrity and credibility. Some good points were mentioned. More tournies are seen as legit majors have internationals coming these people come to compete whether they're sponsered or not. As a TO it will benefit you more if you have the best players playing their best otherwise it just makes your tourney look bad. I also notice some people aren't bothered growing the scene. Fine. No growth causes stagnation then from stagnation comes a slow drawn out death.

#38
ssf4evo said on April 15, 2013 at 6:06 p.m.

no money tourneys.

#39
NvhA said on April 15, 2013 at 6:07 p.m.

Plenty of people still don't get it. This is less about potsplitting but more about sportsmanship.

And to those saying, "ooh step up your game and stop this madness if you hate it so much". People are looking at things from the bigger perspective, such as the healthiness of the scene, how to maintain hype and competitiveness so stop being ignorant.

#40
Virtua_Kazama said on April 15, 2013 at 6:08 p.m.

Onislayer is dead right with his statement. The FGC is moving to a point where it's getting professional. These guys are out there showing up to tournaments, getting noticed by sponsors, winning, etc.

FGC, we gotta do better than this. Stop complaining, grow up, and show up!

#41
Graphf said on April 15, 2013 at 6:08 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#42
throughsilence said on April 15, 2013 at 6:13 p.m.

I'm pretty sure, off the record, if they tried to split the pot but played at 100%, people would be more considerate, but throwing matches just to split, is despicable.

#43
YouDontKnowMe said on April 15, 2013 at 6:14 p.m.

@33 Good point. The fact that Justin and Chris G were so obvious about doing this just shows that they have no fear of their sponsor or think that their sponsor has no interest in their players. From a business standpoint if I found out one of my employees was in collusion with an employee from my competitor I would not be happy.

#44
Leakey said on April 15, 2013 at 6:16 p.m.

If the tournament forbids it, don't do it. If your sponsor gets pissed, don't do it. Otherwise, what is there (really) to stop you? If TOs penalize this behavior, or if sponsors cut the money to players who do this, then it will stop. Otherwise, stay free/salty non-winners.

#45
MullaXul said on April 15, 2013 at 6:21 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#46
TheTHCGamer said on April 15, 2013 at 6:21 p.m.

Wasnt this the second time Justin was involved with some s*** like this? This wasnt smartest thing to do considering the whole the Fanatic/Spooky feud especially when Chris himself was also involved with that match.

So thats 2 times both of these guys have been involved in some controversy. More importantly makes people question the legitimacy of tournaments.

#47
riku45 said on April 15, 2013 at 6:21 p.m.

Never really understood the who pot splitting thing. Surely the whole point of entering a tournament is to show who is the best and be rewarded for being the best at that tournament? why would I want to share money and prizes with someone who did not have the skill to beat you? The FGC has become so soft and overly friendly. Its why I look forward to matches with unknown and omg itz andre than top players who pot split. At least I know that with unknown and andre, they will be going in for real!

#48
ShinzoBishamon said on April 15, 2013 at 6:24 p.m.

@42 you sound like a marvel player :D

#49
HolyGhost said on April 15, 2013 at 6:28 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#50
Dark_Obliske said on April 15, 2013 at 6:29 p.m.

i expected as much from chris g

#51
roarmonster said on April 15, 2013 at 6:30 p.m.

@48

pot splitting is a mutual agreement to insure that you gain something. If Justin Wong and Chris G arent positive that they can beat each other, splitting the pot is beneficial to them, because they know they are getting something

#52
Clamper said on April 15, 2013 at 6:31 p.m.

Thank God im not the only one pissed at these fixed matches. As people already said split the money all you want but at least play the matches seriously.

#53
Dbarcelona said on April 15, 2013 at 6:32 p.m.

Yes the FGC is moving up but all this comes at a cost to much damage has been done were getting to a point where if Daigo smiles in the next evo(which he has, I know) he might get booked(yellow carded) ala Justin Wong.

I would much rather have people having fun then playing like if their life depended on it JWONG is a 7 time Evo(mvc2) champion he has nothing else to prove to anybody sometimes people need to unwind and relax a bit, and remember where we came from having fun playing games sure competition is fun but what can you do when their is no said competition.

Point and case is many people want Chris G to get demolished and since that didn't happen everyone is here bitching about it.

#54
HolyGhost said on April 15, 2013 at 6:32 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#55
MagnesiumMg12 said on April 15, 2013 at 6:41 p.m.

I'm confused guys, is this going to lead into "If you're not using the team you are known for then you are cheating" type of deal? I know the whole random thing was blatant but what if they hadn't picked random select but had picked characters that neither one of them plays regularly, would it have been considering cheating? What's the difference between someones play looking legit and not looking legit? I know when they played that match it looked boring because I expected Bullet Hell vs. "Rub a dub dub I'm snkting your bub". What if I have 2 teams that play completely differently and my second team isn't something you've seen before/often. My main team being rushdown and my second being layed back zoning. Would I be considered a cheat because my tempo change? Am I reading to much into this?

#56
MCHAWKING said on April 15, 2013 at 6:42 p.m.

Again with the misnomers. The issue isn't pot splitting the issue is two of the top 5 best players in the world putting in a lackluster effort (and no I don't just mean the first game, the other 3 games looked piss poorly played as well, I don't believe Justin's tweet for a minute) that completely ruined the viewing experience. Enjoy those sponsored pot bonuses while they last, because they won't be lasting for long if this is the kind of effort that top pros feel like putting into growing the scene.

I find the timing of this to be incredibly ironic as well since it came on the same weekend as the Daigo interview, where he expressed how he purposely tailors his play style to be as crowd pleasing as possible in order to build up hype for the scene. Considering that in Japan they don't even have cash prizes at tournaments, its pretty sad to see we can't even get a modicum of that sentimentality in North America where building up the scene helps players financially.

#57
OhYouDontSayThat said on April 15, 2013 at 6:42 p.m.

BURN THEM AT THE STAKE!

but rly tho, Justin's response shoulda' been "hey! you dont like it!? well then, get good and then YOU can be in grand finals!"

#58
tortoos said on April 15, 2013 at 6:48 p.m.

@42 actually plenty of people still play KoF because as a fighting game, it is a fantastic game. Nobody plays it online anymore though because the netcode is so bad. I personally think it's a much better game than marvel could ever be, and I know I might get a ton of hate for saying that but there it is. The reason I doubt this would ever happen in KoF is because in case you haven't noticed, KoF matches take a long time and this makes the tournament for it run for a long time. By the time you'd get to finals you'd probably want to win just because of how much damn time it took for you to get there.

Tangent aside, I think pot splitting is a poor practice, but obviously throwing games is even worse. I don't watch or care for marvel, but I could understand why people would be disgusted about this.

#59
CheeseCakez said on April 15, 2013 at 6:53 p.m.

I have no problem with any of this. They both played to win. It was entertaining.

#60
NvhA said on April 15, 2013 at 6:53 p.m.

@56

People follow these top players religiously and can actually tell if they're using a legitimate teams or just sandbagging. Using alternative teams might rub the others the wrong way slightly (though not such a bad deal) but going all random is the lowest they can go for.

#61
HolyGhost said on April 15, 2013 at 6:59 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#62
dorayaki said on April 15, 2013 at 6:59 p.m.

LADIES AND SCUMBAGS, this happens when you have two chickens going at it. The ONLY reason you would negotiate a pot split is if you think you might lose. So the chickens would huddle up and say, "man... let's just split top prizes so we're both 'winners.'" And I guarantee JWong initiated it in this instance.

Anyways, to avoid such a thing, you need to have the tournament organizer issue non-transferable checks as tourney prizes and maybe in some cases have it sent to the winners' address the week after the tourney. Then the loser would have to trust that the winner is going to pay him out... (yeah right).

Second, organizers should include a clause in the tourney rules stating that final decisions on all prizes are based on judges and organizers' approval. And if collusion is unanimously believed to have occurred, just "suspend" the payouts. Mo' money, mo' money, mo' money... for the organizer.

Third, if the players are sponsored, perhaps sponsors should give points, credit, or incentives for placing first in a major tourney. That way, more incentive to place first than just tourney prize would be involved.

I dunno if those things (above) are being done already, but seeing two butt buddies laughing and giggling in the finals of a major tourney is as exciting as public access channel.

And for all you numbskulls who say there's nothing wrong with it, imagine watching Wimbledon if the two finalists, say Serena and Venus, were just lobbing balls back and forth.... The stadium would clear out, and the sponsors would be a bit ticked.

I'm out.

#63
8Period95 said on April 15, 2013 at 7:04 p.m.

Split the pot to your hearts desire, you made GF, the money is yours. But play the freaking match as if you weren't splitting. And this isn't new to the FGC, I see people seem to forget about instances in SF with pot splitting(Wolfkrone and Justin anyone?). The problem now is it's Marvel. So now the people who hate the attention the game gets, can add fuel to their fire. P.S. The game still won't die. Lmao.

#64
dorayaki said on April 15, 2013 at 7:07 p.m.

PEE ESS... For all you dumdums who say there's nothing wrong with pot-splitting, it's all tied together. The result of pot-splitting is that full winning pressure and effort are not needed. It doesn't matter if you win or lose at that point, so obviously, you don't play your A+ game. Get it? Got it? Good.

#65
Vandylizer said on April 15, 2013 at 7:07 p.m.

#57
Couldn't agree more, good post.

#66
RedEther said on April 15, 2013 at 7:17 p.m.

In the end it's all about the money. Expect ppl to play more "seriously" in grand finals so they won't have hear this drama again but they will still pot split either way lol.

#67
BeezleBass said on April 15, 2013 at 7:18 p.m.

Pot-splitting has been around forever, that isn't going to change. There isn't enough money in the fgc to chance losing GF. As for the bullsh*t GF maybe players should actually get better, pick real teams, and stop being defeatist just watching Chris G win every tournament. You want to bitch and cry about the way he does things, then beat him and take him off of his throne.

#68
stream_monster said on April 15, 2013 at 7:18 p.m.

#54 You nailed a big part of why this is a big deal with "Point and case is many people want Chris G to get demolished and since that didn't happen everyone is here bitching about it." (UltraDavid's rock salt levels rose to new heights)

People are tired of seeing Chris G win with his lame style and think JWong is one of the players who can actually stop him, but they took the grand finals for a joke. That caused people to get especially mad, it was inconsiderate since they aren't just playing for themselves. They're sponsored players now, and Spooky made a great point; it's disrespectful to the TO, sponsors, competitors, and viewers.

What about counter-picking and playing with new teams or characters? I guess it's up to the discretion of the TO, but that just makes this whole thing even more complicated. This isn't something new in the FGC, you can't expect the community to become "professional" overnight.

What about bracket rigging by TOs? Let's not pretend like that doesn't happen, and isn't just as bad. All around, almost no one is setting a good example. Players should be more careful and considerate before doing something like this though.

#69
PropLeXed said on April 15, 2013 at 7:27 p.m.

Thing is this type of thing probably happens A LOT more than people realize and just goes unnoticed, Justin and Chris done goofed by going random and attracting that unnecessary heat lol.

#70
jhayze said on April 15, 2013 at 7:30 p.m.

pot splitting = bad for tournament organizers, tournament sponsors, players sponsor, and fgc, i dont see how this will worry or affect the streamers, attendees, and competitors unless they do a lame boring grand finals

lame boring grand finals = bad for online viewers, attendees, subscribers, tournament organizers, tournament sponsors, player sponsor, and fgc

rage quit = bad for player sponsor, everyone else love the rage quit drama

match fixing = bad for tournament organizers, tournament sponsors, online viewers, attendees, subscribers, tournament players, and fgc

so is it ok to pot split but still show a great damn match on grand finals? which is good for the monsters but bad for TO and TS?

how can we avoid and prevent this 4 problems in future tournaments?

#71
HolyGhost said on April 15, 2013 at 7:33 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#72
JinZo said on April 15, 2013 at 7:33 p.m.

Best thing to do is just to disqualify players. To players like Jwong, it's their job. Disqualification = lose income. And players like Jwong don't really care about honor as much as income.

#73
chipndip said on April 15, 2013 at 7:44 p.m.

Question now is how much more of this are we gonna see? A lot of really immature crap has slid under the radar till now. Wondering how long it takes before the FGC takes that leap into "E-FGC-Sports".

@HolyGhost: Are you doing me the honors of being my first hater/d**k rider? Do you do this type of stuff solely for me or do you hop on everyone who references UMVC3 negatively? I just wanna know where you're planning on taking this "stupid penguin" thing.

#74
jhayze said on April 15, 2013 at 7:49 p.m.

@#9
mostly said it all...

if u dont want this to happen, tournament competitors need to step their game up and level up their skills, win and takeout this kind of players out of the tourny

as for the tournament organizers, they need to justify and punish this players with this kinds of acts, ban them from the next tourny or other upcoming tourny events

players sponsor need to do something too, this acts reflects back at them, if i recall western wolves/madcats did something to ryan hart when he just talked smack against his own teammates, but this acts are way more worse than talking sh!t

#75
ModAL said on April 15, 2013 at 7:53 p.m.

@63 I would LMAO if they did something like that at Wimbledon. I wouldn't be mad because there is no money on the line for me.

The FGC needs a governing body to make and enforce rules. Last year when the Road to Evo went through like every single major in this country, they gave JWong a yellow card for throwing the match and letting Noel Brown win and get better Evo seeding points. This is a great start if you think pot-splitting is a problem. My perspective is that I'm going to watch an epic GF, or I'm going to LMAO and watch an epic comedy.

#76
Boogityboy said on April 15, 2013 at 7:55 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#77
smashlloyd20 said on April 15, 2013 at 7:57 p.m.

You guys are not getting something. ChrisG says that he will take every match seriously if there's more money on the line and sponsors give bigger bonuses. Now look at Starcraft or LoL. Money and sponsor-wise, they're everything the FGC wants to be.

How do you think they got there? By pot splitting and throwing GFs? No. They showed damn good games, stepped up their production, and tried and showed spirit in every match! Then sponsors looked at their tournaments and thought 'Hmmm, this could be good to invest in'. They didn't suddenly stop thrown matches and pot splitting when they made it big; to make it big in the first place they didn't have any of this.

Now don't get me wrong. I WANT the FGC to be able to support its players as much as anyone else. But for that to happen, first WE have to step it up and give it our all. Stop acting like you're entitled to sponsorship and big prize pools. You have to earn them by acting classy and showing love for the game and legitimate competition.

#78
kara said on April 15, 2013 at 8:04 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#79
MonkeyCha0s said on April 15, 2013 at 8:11 p.m.

why are people agreeing with #9? the problem isnt specifically Chris and Justin pot splitting, its the idea of pot splitting and sandbagging in general. what you guys are agreeing to is people knocking out Chris and Justin out of tournaments and just having the next two players do exactly what they did. correct me if im wrong and Dragoomba is just on to something I dont quite get.

#80
LK said on April 15, 2013 at 8:24 p.m.

@50

There is no honor among thieves.

I like the UltraDavid response, he saw the obvious collusion, he went to eat a pizza.

I encourage everyone attending tournament to just exist the building if we see this sort of thing again. People should walk out, commentators, streamers, cos-players, TOs, just walk out. There will be no grand prize, there will be no money awarded to those in collusion.

That's an easy fix. Just don't encourage or treat the bad behaviors as a thing that we have to deal with, and it will stop.

#81
stinginghook said on April 15, 2013 at 8:25 p.m.

Come on, guys. Let's start that commission.

#82
Eternal said on April 15, 2013 at 8:29 p.m.

I love that Jwong just apologizes says it wont happen again. ChrisG wont even cop to it and doesn't man up.

I guess you can tell whose idea it was: Chris "I like trophies" G

#83
SnakeX said on April 15, 2013 at 8:37 p.m.

@80

Exactly. Knocking Justin and Chris out of the tournament doesn't suddenly solve this. Pot splitting and collusion happens with other players too. It's been going on for ages. I get what Dragoomba is trying to say and it makes sense, but it doesn't solve the overall problem.

The problem is that this sh*t is going unpunished and is only called out after the fact. It needs to be prevented if people want the FGC to grow. Chris G's immature attitude in regards to all this is highly detrimental. Sure, they can pot split and not take grand finals seriously all they want. They can split the "chump change". But guess what? The scene will NEVER grow with crap like this, and it will NEVER have larger pots, better recognition, and more sponsors. And why would it with immature sh*t like this? Tournament organizers need to have more concrete rules and they need to be willing to step in and stop this stuff from happening. Actual punishments need to be given, because simply calling people out on their behavior has clearly not worked as some people are extremely stubborn and thick headed. The best way to keep this stuff from happening is to have actual consequences. That's what Markman is getting at, and that's what the FGC needs.

#84
dro2191 said on April 15, 2013 at 8:43 p.m.

i dont understand what happened tho whats the big fuss?

#85
FlutLicht said on April 15, 2013 at 8:47 p.m.

It's probably already fixed (no pun intended).
Markman tweeted that madcatz won't support events that allow collusion. Since madcatz basically sponsors every event they will all put it in their rules now and enforce it.

Don't get me wrong, they can split the pot all they want as far as I'm concerned, but please give me, the viewer, some good games to watch since that is what you are payed for.
Staying up all night (Europe) just to see the tourney end in such an anti climatic manner is a slap in the face. Personally I lost even the last ounce of respect I had for jwong

#86
MaysTheCraze said on April 15, 2013 at 8:59 p.m.

I just loved when Ultra David started eating pizza and was all like, "F*#k this noise." I thought that Grand Finals was a little fishy. Just wondering why they didn't count the random select.

#87
Onofre said on April 15, 2013 at 10:06 p.m.

If we want to enforce punishments on pot-splitting, we need a stronger governing body. Determining if someone is trying is hard, and the first step to making a standard is getting together and defining "throwing a match" and have a hard set of rules to determine if someone did or didn't. Or at the very least a commission of veteran players.

#88
era said on April 15, 2013 at 10:13 p.m.

for a second, i thought of east asia: festival at the old temple

#89
thf24 said on April 15, 2013 at 10:22 p.m.

@10 No, no it wouldn't. See Pete Rose.

#90
musacci said on April 15, 2013 at 10:26 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#91
Zumaeta said on April 15, 2013 at 10:35 p.m.

This is really a non-issue.

These players have no obligation to give you a show in grand finals, they already fought their best to get there (Honestly, they can do whatever they want). This is the same argument with telling professional athletes who make millions of dollars to be role models for young people. Why? They signed up to play a sport not appease their fans and teach kids morals. That should be a CHOICE. Unfortunately, people want to make profit off them so they force them into these contracts with rules and obligations taking away from the sport. How many of you can say Basketball is 100% legitimate sportsmanship anymore? Damn well better be none of you.

That said, yes you should be playing your best to stop this from happening (They're playing their best to be able to get to that point) and if you think that you paid to watch a great grand finals - you didn't. You paid to participate for your chance at the pot and bragging rights. You did not pay for a "hype grand finals". Not to mention, even though they played teams they do not play, they still played it out and it was still high level play. I'm sorry you didn't get to see Soulfist FLOOD the screen and chip somebody out for the 1000th time. That must be SO hype.

It's been said and I'll say it again - Grow up. Don't talk about e-sports because the FGC won't be e-sports with the way they refuse to cooperate with anybody. You have to make up your minds. You want to be e-sports? Stop trying to have your cake and eat it too. You want to remain unique like a snowflake? Then this is what happens.

It's not about sportsmanship, either. Bad sportsmanship? You want to talk about that? It's taunting people who clearly aren't as good as you and making them look like trash. Bad sportsmanship? Popping off when you don't need to. But here's the deal - They both agreed to it. Chris wasn't downplaying Justin because he thought he was free, Justin did the same thing and so it was legit. Now, if Chris had decided to say something like,"Justin, you're so free, I don't even need to play my team - Any team will do" I might say,"Yeah, that's messed up."

#92
Zumaeta said on April 15, 2013 at 10:47 p.m.

PS - It's the FGC not Fighting Game Entertainment.

#93
dorayaki said on April 15, 2013 at 11:06 p.m.

@92 ...you're an idiot.

They are sponsored players. They have an obligation to their sponsors. The sponsors provide monies and the like to tourneys because of advertisement. Sponsors would not provide the money if it wasn't for the 10k viewers. That's where satisfying the viewers come into play.

So play that in reverse, no viewers -> no sponsor -> no 'career' for pro player. Then they can split $120 pots at their local tourneys as much as they wish.

ps. Grow up before you share your next opinion. thx.

#94
Exand said on April 15, 2013 at 11:26 p.m.

If they're going to split the pot (and all the power to them if they want to) it DOES NOT mean they can't go all out and play to the best of their ability.

Even if it's just for a trophy there's a prize involved with sponsors who put money to support the events. Maybe have a little respect for them and play to win instead of goofing off?

#95
dorayaki said on April 15, 2013 at 11:40 p.m.

@95 AGAAAAIN... the whole nature of pot-splitting entails that you need not put your best effort forward to receive full benefits. Another words, you don't care if you lose. (especially if you've been winning for years like jwong- and don't have to "prove" anything)

I understand that you CAN theoretically still put 100% into it but that's not (obviously) how it works in the real world.

For those of you who don't understand that concept, just imagine if a major tourney announced 1st and 2nd prize were the same payout.... because that's essentially what's happened.

enough said.

#96
Dbarcelona said on April 16, 2013 at 12:03 a.m.

@94 pardon me but if they(FG streamers) really cared about the viewers they would stop with the subscriber only chat.

We didn't even get this much backlash about Revelations in which my opinion was a way worse incident. Is it boring to watch sure but honestly like people have said this is the FGC not some Drama Show(even tho it seems like it some times)

Don't bite the hand that feeds Madcatz helped mold the community the way it is now but it doesn't mean they have to start pointing fingers and making threats.

If it all comes down to a war we don't wanna get the Capcops involved or Disney Swat team cause some people really are starting to get greedy.

Esports sign a contract Ill take Evo any day.

#97
Smorgasboard said on April 16, 2013 at 12:10 a.m.

@Every who thinks that pot splitting is not the issue
The Evo rules clearly states that pot splitting or any other such collusion are DQ-worthy. That's the only reason that I believe is correct.

Also, it's a much better reason than "viewer count" because if the event had no stream, then it would mean it would be okay to collude then. If people start colluding at small events, then it becomes habit at big events. Where do you think it started in first place?

#98
Lorenzo_2003 said on April 16, 2013 at 12:18 a.m.

@92,
That was an absolutely terrible comparison with professional athletes. Professional leagues come down very hard on athletes who "fix" games or otherwise besmirch the reputation of their league by fining them, suspending them from games, or even outright banning them from ever playing. Sportsmanship has become more important over the years (e.g. you can't even taunt in some sports now without a penalty), and it looks like the FGC wants to legitimize its competitions by forcing people to be more professional and honest. What, you've never heard of the Black Sox, Pete Rose, or Jake LaMotta taking a dive in the ring?

#99
skitz0phrenic said on April 16, 2013 at 12:29 a.m.

Texas Showdown GF was a complete disgrace to competition. I never had any respect for Chris G to begin with but seeing how hes reacted to crap he pulled has made him look like the ultimate scumbag he really is.

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