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Svensson pitched Capcom vs. Capcom game internally, hasn't found traction - fighting game resources currently occupied

Posted by Jonathan 'Catalyst' Grey • October 10, 2012 at 10:45 a.m. PDT
Svensson pitched Capcom vs. Capcom game internally, hasn't found traction - fighting game resources currently occupied Speaking about the possibility of a new Capcom Fighting Evolution, or a tag team/battle royale style game, Capcom USA Vice President, Christian Svensson, remarked that he had pitched a Capcom vs. Capcom game a few times internally, but hadn't ever really found much traction for such a project.

He did remark that even if there was a demand for such a game, their fighting game resources are currently being used on other projects, which he didn't specifically cite.

Svensson also chimed in on going back to 2D sprites for fighting games, and you can check out that response after the jump.

Rohan Mayers: Have you ever thought about making remaking or revisiting Capcom Fighting Evolution? Or making a Capcom/Street Fighter tag team or battle royale game?

Svensson: I've pitched Capcom vs. Capcom a few times internally. It's never really found traction though among the producers or with marketing. In any event, please remember, any projects of this nature need to be viewed, not in isolation, but as it would fit into our current product roadmap and brand strategy. In any case, our fighting resources are being utilized on other projects right now so it'll be some time before such a thing could really be considered for greenlight.

Greg: Would you ever go back to using 2D sprites for fighters if you could?

Svensson: I won't speak for anyone else here at Capcom but personally, I wouldn't go back. While 2D hand drawn sprites can be beautiful, but 3D tends to give smoother animation and gives designers more flexibility over things like costumes and different looks rather than just pallette swaps.

Now could you do what some other "2D sprite" games have done and output sprites from 3D models? I suppose you could, but that's not quite the same as hand drawn stuff which I think is really what you're getting at.

And as Ono has pointed out before, it'd be extremely difficult to top some of the stuff that's been done in the past.

Source: Capcom Unity Boards.

Comments

Championship_Edition said on October 10, 2012 at 10:53 a.m.

Some people are going to gripe about saying 3D can be better than 2D, but there are legitimate points there. All of Capcom's 3D engine fighters this gen have really incredible character animation, with characters more articulated than any other 3D game. Costume flexibility is also a pretty big deal.

That, and as hardware becomes more powerful mimicking some of the stylistic elements of 2D that people enjoy will become commonplace. The biggest thing that SF3's animation has going for it is the flowing look of cloth and motion smearing.

Now imagine SF5 on next-gen hardware with motion blur on the level of Tekken Tag 2 or better, and full body cloth physics so that characters can enjoy the rubbery, flexible movements seen in SF3.

#1
SnakeX said on October 10, 2012 at 10:55 a.m.

Capcom Fighting Evolution was good in concept, but executed poorly.
That said, I'd love to see them give it another shot but with a lot of non-fighting game Capcom characters as well. It's not something that will happen any time soon though, especially if "Capcom vs Capcom" keeps getting shot down by the higher-ups.

Also, at what point is Sven allowed to just ignore repeat questions? I swear, he answers a question about 2D vs 3D graphics way too often.

#2
NyuBomber said on October 10, 2012 at 10:56 a.m.

Frankly, I'm fine with Capcom not doing anymore sprites, as long as they push the limits of the 3D models. While some of the models themselves in SF4 series could use work, the animations, reactions, and effects, I thought, were always fantastic.

That's not to say I don't want more sprite stuff, but ArkSys and SNK seem to have that covered.

#3
Aluppoj said on October 10, 2012 at 11:16 a.m.

I used to deplore the idea of SF done in polygon. The EX series looked like blocky pieces of crap. The "artistic element" had been ripped from SF!

But with the power of the systems today we see all of the artistic elements transfer nicely to 2.5:)

It's smooth, looks modern/great, retains a ton of minute detail (maybe more than sprite work could).

Side note:

KOF13 is a breath taking game. Can't take anything away from modern sprite work.

#4
zUkUu said on October 10, 2012 at 11:19 a.m.

I like 2.5D the most.

#5
RunningWild said on October 10, 2012 at 11:22 a.m.

(This user was banned.)

#6
jackpot69 said on October 10, 2012 at 11:22 a.m.

Capcom vs Capcom, so lonely

#7
Kuza21 said on October 10, 2012 at 11:43 a.m.

@6

Agreed. Can't see how anyone can act like SFIV looks better than SF3. If they do plan on never going back to 2D sprites, They REALLY need to step it up with the models. Being able to add "more costumes" is something I couldn't care less about if it means less details in animation like back in the day.

#8
shinpichu said on October 10, 2012 at 11:50 a.m.

I thought the reason that they don't do 2D anymore is that all their sprite artists left for other companies, but I'm not sure. I do prefer the look of their older 2D games, but that's just personal preference.

I'd love a Capcom All Stars game.

#9
hazelnut1112 said on October 10, 2012 at 12:03 p.m.

<i>"but 3D tends to give smoother animation and gives designers more flexibility over things like costumes and different looks rather than just pallette swaps."</i>

Translation: We want 3D so we can milk customers money because of costumes. I wouldn't be mad if these 2D sprites would be color swaps, look at Blazblue and KoF XIII. Those sprites look great and yet no one is complaining about costumes.

#10
Firebrand said on October 10, 2012 at 12:14 p.m.

*Cough cough!*

#11
Rahavic said on October 10, 2012 at 12:24 p.m.

Wow I never thought of that one with the whole going away from 2D hand drawn state of affairs. They can't really sell costumes on 2D hand drawn because 2D mostly just involves palette swaps, so he pretty much said we use 3D more not only because its easier but we can sell costumes on it. Man Capcom has become one money hungry machine, and it's shown this past year. Thankfully it's been a year with alot of bad games from them and I hope they've gotten the chance to sit down and rethink their strategies.

@10 *highfive* for thinking alike, that was the absolute first thing I thought when I read that statement. At least there are some other people that aren't sheep out there. Thank god.

#12
bahamutknightzero said on October 10, 2012 at 12:35 p.m.

Here's the thing though with color swaps, most people end up not caring due to how poor the color combos end up (just look at 3S Online and their additional swaps).

Here's the other thing with lack of complaints regarding costumes with the 2D games, sure there is a lack of complaints there but there ends up being complaints with color swaps instead (Blazblue's costing money, KoF13's not looking as impressive as people make it out to be).

#13
Oracle_Orthros said on October 10, 2012 at 12:43 p.m.

Lol @11

#14
Super_Honda said on October 10, 2012 at 12:50 p.m.

People need to realise that 2D sprites are harder to do and it's funny how people ignored the last sentence:

'And as Ono has pointed out before, it'd be extremely difficult to top some of the stuff that's been done in the past'.

I already knew about this before but so many people forget that how good the previous SF games looked and for Capcom to make SF4 with 3D model, I thought that was a risky move but in the end, it worked. For them to make 2D sprites, it will always be compared to previous SF games and if the 2D sprites in SF4 wasn't as good as the previous SF games, people would hate on Capcom. So either way, it wouldn't matter. I can understand that some people don't like the way SF4 and SFxT looks but someone would have to come up with something unique and interesting, rather than seeing the same old crap, over and over again. By the way, I like SF2's sprites a lot.

Remember: looks doesn't make the fighting game great, it's the gameplay that matters the most at the end of the day. As long as the graphics are decent enough, then it's fine. Look at SF2, that game was made 21 years ago and it still looks and plays great even to this day. I play it competitively, both HF and ST.

Also, people have forgotten that SF4 was the first proper SF game since 3rd Strike and NO ONE at Capcom thought that SF will ever come back, apart from Ono but it turned out to be successful. But if SF4 ended up being a flop, then we probably wouldn't see another proper SF game ever again so people should be happy that SF is back, not being negative. I respect Ono for having the balls to make a new SF game and its a shame that some people bash him. Capcom are lucky to have him.

#15
GigaGilgamesh9 said on October 10, 2012 at 1:02 p.m.

I really like SF4's look and I really like 3rd Strike's look... just not as much.

#16
Chameleonice said on October 10, 2012 at 1:08 p.m.

A Capcom vs. Capcom fighter could be a lot of fun if done right. Fighting Evolution had a lot of promise and I was excited to buy it at the time because of the character selection but, as has been said before, it was very poorly executed. The endings were well done and the premise was really interesting, but the lack of freedom and new animation was painful.

On the subject of animation, I try to stay out of the 2D vs. 3D debate because I'm extremely bias and have a passion for sprite art. However, when they say that the 3D models give them more freedom and flexibility, that's simply not true from an artistic standpoint. Design-wise? Yes, it is way easier to rework a model that you already have and move it anyway you like to create new moves and variations on looks. From the point of view of pure artistic freedom? I would have to say no, and here's two examples of why:

1- In Darkstalkers, there were an incredible amount of character transformations going on with everything a character did. You had characters turning into entirely different things during a fight, especially with Midnight Bliss and Pharaoh Magic. In those games, those super radical transformations usually had three or four frames to them and it was simply a matter of drawing a new sprite, usually on the small side. If you were to do that in a game with 3D models, you would have to create an entirely new model for most of the transformations, and that costs a great deal of money. That's why I believe there was some basis of truth to the rumors of them cutting Jon Talbain and Demitri from MvC3, because those characters require changes in models/sprites in order to stay true to themselves. Those impose budget constraints and, as a result, artistic constraints.

2- Street Fighter X Tekken. I actually thought looked really cool! It has a vibrant style to it that is really eye-catching at first glance and the characters have a lot of expression to their faces. Heck, the range on Asuka and Lili's faces during their intro alone is incredible! However, once you play the game longer and start to pay more attention, certain style things stick out in a bad way. As I think folks have mentioned before, every character has the same 'getting hit' animations and the same 'knocked out' animation. While this might seem minor, it kind of destroys the suspension of disbelief when you see Kuma clipping through the floor because the animators failed to give him a unique 'knocked out' animation. That is called cutting corners. All animation requires cutting corners in order to get done in any timely fashion. In sprite games, they would just remove or mirror frames. However, the goal is always to hide the fact that you're cutting corners, and 3D models can make that stick out like a sore thumb. Artistically, using 3D models just seems to favor budget over freedom and seems to lead to a 'we can't do that' mentality.

Apologies for rambling, but I've always felt this to be an important discussion.

#17
Rahavic said on October 10, 2012 at 1:11 p.m.

Also I dont understand why you can "palette swap" colors on anything a Tekken or Soul Calibur 3D model has on, but you can't on a Capcom's "3D models" they use in Marvel.

#18
trainingdummy said on October 10, 2012 at 1:21 p.m.

it doesn't matter if it's 2-D or 3-D IMO, as long as the games play great, make sense and look aesthetically pleasing.

I think most, if not all of the FGs this gen look legitimately great, and nailed their respective styles.

#19
badjab326 said on October 10, 2012 at 1:27 p.m.

@ 6 I wholeheartedly agree. SFIV and SFxT look like crap imo. The animation is ok at best, but it doesn't compare to 3rd strike or TTT2. Which are imo the best of their respective dimensions. On top of all of that, they need to use 2D stages with their 2D characters too (unlike MvC2 or CvS2) because nowadays the stages they make cause lag and ends up making tournaments incredibly boring to watch since only 1 stage is preferred universally.

As for Capcom Fighting Jam 2, I'd rather see it than pretty much every other fighting game they could produce. But I'd like to see it with a CvS style, with grooves and a ton of characters.

#20
foolly said on October 10, 2012 at 1:48 p.m.

^^ stages do not lag.. this is only online not offline. they pick the training stage because of the grids helping with positioning. It has nothing, i repeat NOTHING to do with lag.

#21
Tensa said on October 10, 2012 at 1:56 p.m.

I dont want to see 2d sprites for any future sf game I like the 3d style more

#22
Rahavic said on October 10, 2012 at 2:12 p.m.

@21 They select the training stage in SF4AE for the reason of using the boxes for spacing and mostly because it's just a stage people feel comfortable on but in Marvel they don't. They select training stage, tron bonn stage and airship stage because they are easy to see on. Also the PS3 lags even offline on some of the other stages in Marvel, I only play on PS3 so I'd know.

#23
100thMonkey said on October 10, 2012 at 2:22 p.m.

3rd strikes 2d art is the most beautiful game i have ever played, i do miss the 2d sprites but i understand how hard it can be and how it doesnt allow flexibility, but i think alot of people complaining about the 2.5d are just making excuses to hate on the games. I hated the idea at first but after a while i could admire how well it was executed.

I've always wanted a sort of MVC style game with just capcom, it would be hella dope.

#24
KirbyMorph said on October 10, 2012 at 2:27 p.m.

3rd strike looks better than sf4 to this day. if the cast didnt look like retarded transvestite monkeys in 3d, it might be a good idea to do 3d models. and marvel 3 3d is just ugly black everywhere and giant hitsparks to cover up the complete lack of any animation. 2d > 3d in every possible way. At least for the cheap ass outsourced garbage capcom rushes out.

#25
RunningWild said on October 10, 2012 at 2:28 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#26
NoizyChild said on October 10, 2012 at 2:44 p.m.

#19 nails it.

Also, #26, notice how just about all of those games have small casts.

3D/2.5D games allow for larger rosters, and more customization as far as costumes and colors go.

#27
danny2times said on October 10, 2012 at 2:55 p.m.

@11 no way it costs more that's just stupid. Kof is awesome been a fan the whole time. But honestly I hate how even kof13 has that choppy frame skipping look because of the lack of frames drawn. Example 3rd strike which you say nothing about but seem to jock snk on an unholy level. Kof maximum impact was fantastic, still have it in ps2 and it proves how much more they can achieve with 3d renders.

Why would anyone compare trekken or sc or doa to street fighter? They each have a distinct art style that gives them an identity amongst the sea of fighters. That's really ignorant and a bad point.

3d renders can do more in the way if transformation than 2d period. Darkstalkers transformations are cinematic, they would have to do the same work for both 2d and 3d in the ways of adjusting move properties hit/hurt boxes so no debate there at all.

It comes down to preference alone. The way that some of you refuse to play a game simply based on looks exemplifies the ADHD and just immaturity the so called fgc is becoming famous for. I like em both, I'm a artist and respect all of the work. I play a game and decide if the mechanics are what suits me. If not I try again on another title.
I think we can all agree on on point though, if capcom were to make a cap vs cap game please don't go the way of Sony or Nintendo have. Make it a traditional fighter not a platform fighter.

One last point on the advantage of 3d models is that memory they save by grouping frame types allows for better performance. It's why we have rosters like tt2 and not smaller ones like kof for example.

Sorry but I gotta call out 17 that was some real nonsensical ass noise you spewed. Have you once seen any 2d mugen fighter change the shape of a character the way some of these 3d pc modders have been doing lately? C'mon dummy.

#28
Jookey said on October 10, 2012 at 3:08 p.m.

I really, really want Capcom Vs Capcom.

#29
ElHiznahn said on October 10, 2012 at 3:42 p.m.

Capcom Fighting All-Stars looked kind of promising, but since this was the Fighting Malaise era (PS2/XBOX), they dropped it in favor of Capcom Fighting JAM (lol changed to Evolution to sound better than it was).

Capcom: DURRRRRRRRRR

#30
msmers said on October 10, 2012 at 3:44 p.m.

ugh, so tiring to hear all these people saying third strike looks better than AE. half of you wouldn't be here without SF4, the community and sites like this wouldn't get the traffic they do. stop pretending you're all indie fighting gamers. its almost sickening. there are already way too many fighting games out, and none of you are probably good enough at your respective game to need a new one to play. so please, stop being boring.

#31
OSM said on October 10, 2012 at 3:58 p.m.

>Fighting game resources currently occupied

Darkstalkers.

That being said, a Capcom Vs Capcom game that doesn't suck would be really nice.

#32
lukecage83 said on October 10, 2012 at 4:16 p.m.

@ 6 and 8:

Agreed lol - I mean, I have no problem with the graphic style of SFIV and MVC3, but IMO, Capcom's 2D fighters look better to me than the recent 3d work they've been doing. I like SFIV, but I'll gladly take the SFIII series over IV any day (and that's graphics and gameplay wise - KEN still looks like f--kin' He-Man in IV).

It's sad to see my favorite videogame company become such a SELL-OUT MONSTER, but what can you do?

#33
lukecage83 said on October 10, 2012 at 4:25 p.m.

@31:

I (and I'm not the only one) was visiting this site long before SFIV was even a thought, sooooooooo....you're dumb...

It's all preference. You really can't compare SFIII to SFIV, as SFIV was able to take advantage of advanced tech. So of course, to the casual person, 4 would look better. But me (and thousands more like me) love 2D. I'll take Ken's SFIII sprite over the He-Man model in IV. I'll Take the Spider-Man sprite over the MvC3 model x100 (a lot of the models in MvC3 look stupid compared to their 2D counterparts).

#34
Aluppoj said on October 10, 2012 at 4:45 p.m.

Just realize I love 3s before reading.

The CPS3 was a monster in its day. And the amount of animation it could produce seems like it could rival or beat modern sprite based fighters.

Having said that.....

Visually, 3s and CPS3 are dinosaurs! Seriously. Go on google images and search SF3 SF4 sprite comparison. The level of detail on the 3D model DESTROYS the old 2d art! They aren't even in the same league.

This "3s looks better than sf4" is nostalgia speaking.

New (SF4) Ryu you can see his teeth, iris, kanji on his belt, different clothing textures, finger/toe nails and changing facial expression.

3s, while amazing in 1999 looks like Super Mario World by comparison.

But both games play great. And that is the most important factor.

#35
msmers said on October 10, 2012 at 4:57 p.m.

@34

That might be why I said half, sooooo you're dumb ;)

I agree, its about preference.

#36
TheDeadTexan said on October 10, 2012 at 4:58 p.m.

Visually, I love MvC3. Really hope the rumors of Darkstalkers running on the SFxTk engine are fake, because those characters don't deserve such a hideous fate.

#37
hazelnut1112 said on October 10, 2012 at 5:20 p.m.

@37
I just don't want that happening period especially since Ono might be behind the game. I don't want no gimmicks like Gems or any of that stuff be put in the game.

#38
100thMonkey said on October 10, 2012 at 5:33 p.m.

@31 but 3s does look alot better than sf4. Don't get me wrong, SF4 looks crisp, its just not 3s

#39
uguumachine said on October 10, 2012 at 6:04 p.m.

on top of all the advantages of 3D: for a lot of people sprite games are XBLA games, no matter how good the sprites look. and capcom happens to be in the game selling business.
and capcom is the only company with decent sale numbers for their fighting games.

@38 you must be new here. gimmicks have been in fighting games since forever. and gems could have worked, if you could activate them when you wanted.

#40
HooliganComboFTW said on October 10, 2012 at 6:24 p.m.

Skullgirls, VS, and Third Strike look great for 2d fighters

#41
FightDirty said on October 10, 2012 at 6:30 p.m.

2D sprites can look really good, and in some games they do. However we are in the 21st century now and it's time to move on. 3D models are superior and better. There is no going back.

Granted my opinion is biased because I actually like the 3D models in games like AE, MvC3 & TT2.

#42
KaboomKid said on October 10, 2012 at 6:32 p.m.

Okay, I gotta rant.

I don't hate 3D, and it's done wonders for some games, but what always brought me back to Capcom was their beautiful 2D artwork. Heck, even Ubisoft still appreciates the merits of 2D animation when it counts. Capcom without their legendary 2D graphics simply doesn't excite me.

I mean, why are we even talking about nextgen hardware's ablity to mimic the stylistic elements of 2D with 3D models? So apparently we'll need the hardware of tomorrow, and 3x the manpower, to simulate cloth folds that were done in 10 minutes with a pixel stroke back in '97? I know a lot of you kids bow down to 3D these days, but they won't be able to emulate animation in the style of Third Strike's with just a new physics engine. There are still a lot of things 3D on a budget can't, and probably will never do efficiently. Even Pixar knows that!

For that matter, the thought that these HD 3D graphics are the future of gaming is a little too optimistic. These big developers need a lot of money and resources to hit these AAA standards you people want today, and you can see how the industry is slowly imploding on itself as a result. The credits for RE6 were like, 10 minutes long, and all that manpower STILL didn't result in a better game than its predecessors. The video game industry has no chance of upholding these Hollywood standards that even Hollywood is having problems with. If we're not willing to pay up the arse for DLC, then something's gotta give!

I guess we'll have see what the future holds, but I wouldn't be expecting too much more from SF5 if I were you guys. Here's hoping that Capcom's employees even remember how to draw!

#43
Batsu said on October 10, 2012 at 9:18 p.m.

I'm glad none of the devs at Capcom want to do ANOTHER CROSSOVER.

What am I saying, they're probably working on another one right now. They just don't wanna do THAT crossover.

"Hyper Capcom vs Milton Bradley 4: Street Fighter Edition" will be announced at the NYCC. I only wish it was a joke.

#44
Torrie_De_Goddess said on October 10, 2012 at 10:35 p.m.

#6
Thank you! I've been saying this for ages. Most modern gamers wont even touch a game unless it's 3D, unfortunately.

#45
illness690 said on October 10, 2012 at 11:05 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#46
Aluppoj said on October 11, 2012 at 1:13 a.m.

@46

Lol wut?

Half the dudes in here are ripping on SF4's appearance.

#47
tewunbsdj said on October 11, 2012 at 4:27 a.m.

(This user was banned.)

#48
hismit said on October 11, 2012 at 6:25 a.m.

@27:
Actually 20-25 characters for a 1v1 game is a perfect number. GG, BB and KOF XIII prove that 2D sprite is superior :)

#49
illness690 said on October 11, 2012 at 6:43 a.m.

(This user was banned.)

#50
Aluppoj said on October 11, 2012 at 7:07 a.m.

People are still calling them "lazy" for using 3D models.

And the "chunkiness" you're referencing has actually been toned down (or kept the same) compared to the proportions of the Alpha series.

SF characters have always been disproportionate and highly stylized. That's what sets SF apart from its competition.

#51
danny2times said on October 11, 2012 at 8:45 a.m.

Dude aluppoj you are banging your head against the wall bro. These morons are not able to read through most news posts. Let alone the comments. This site is getting overrun by noobs with a second window open on Wikipedia to get all their vast knowledge from lol!

#52
illness690 said on October 11, 2012 at 8:56 a.m.

(This user was banned.)

#53
danny2times said on October 11, 2012 at 10:10 a.m.

Yeah but in alpha ryu and ken were teenagers. Sagat was much beefier in alpha so was bison. Hell even geif is a bit thinner than alpha! That egm is taken out of context he mentions the facial expressions more than anything.

#54
A4headedninja said on October 11, 2012 at 10:10 a.m.

I love the idea of a capcom vs capcom game ssf4AE graphics and 3d models are amazing with that being said i know that the potential for future 3d models will be tremendous.

#55
Aluppoj said on October 11, 2012 at 11:21 a.m.

The Alpha Ryu sprite and SF4 Ryu render have an identical body guys! I studied the comparison shots.

Check it out.

"Gorillas" lol, no.

#56
Aluppoj said on October 11, 2012 at 11:36 a.m.

And Danny2x is correct.

Characters like. Zangief, Sagat, Bison, Cody, etc etc etc.... Are all SMALLER (in terms of muscle) than they were in Alpha. (Bison for a reason)

Characters like. Rose, Gen, Sakura, Makoto, etc etc etc.... Are all the SAME size that they were in prior iterations.

Characters like, Ryu, Balrog, Guile, T-Hawk, Dhalsim, Yun/Yang and most of the rest of the cast look exactly as the should.

A few charactes that come to mind as looking "beefier" than past versions would be Guy, Vega, Chun Li.

These are just a few examples to illustrate my point. I don't want to rate everyone.

I do agree that the models are slimmer and less Japanese looking than the 3 series. That's what that old article was referring to.

But it's been done before... In the Alpha series.... That's all I'm saying.

#57
Aluppoj said on October 11, 2012 at 6:06 p.m.

I meant thicker*

#58


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