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Seth Killian: If a new fighting game doesn't incorporate a player's time investment and skill set from previous games, they're prone to disapprove

Posted by Steven 'Dreamking23' Chavez • November 26, 2012 at 12:02 p.m. PST
Seth Killian: If a new fighting game doesn't incorporate a player's time investment and skill set from previous games, they're prone to disapprove Eurogamer conducted a very intricate interview with Sony Santa Monica's Seth Killian recently with the primary focus being Playstation All-Stars Battle Royale. Killian talks on many different topics including his history with Capcom and the migration to Sony Santa Monica, how he feels if a new fighting game is released that doesn't incorporate a player's skill set of their favorite fighting games, they may not approve of it right away and more.

Below is a bit to get you started.

“If I'm quite good at Arcade Edition 2012 and Street Fighter 5 comes out and it doesn't play exactly like Street Fighter 4 or it doesn't reward the skills I've built in, I will be thumbs down about it or inherently resistant to it. I have a literal investment. Obviously there's the cost of the game, but there's thousands of hours I've spent practising to be really good at this game and really mastering the details of it.

“So when something comes out that potentially doesn't reward my exact skill set, I'm going to be reticent and resistent to it. It's hard to get past that and appreciate the value of what's new. If a new game comes out and everybody likes it, and they're like, ah yeah, Street Fighter 4, that's the old stuff, no-one cares about that old man! You're like, oh, my investment. It's now worth that much less.

Tips by Nyoro, Chameleonice and Jevali.

Comments

The8five8 said on November 26, 2012 at 12:05 p.m.

True

#1
thf24 said on November 26, 2012 at 12:08 p.m.

Besides the obvious mechanics issues, I feel like this was a significant part of SFxT's unpopularity. It looks like SF4 but people lose if they play it like SF4, so they say it's ass.

#2
NoizyChild said on November 26, 2012 at 12:09 p.m.

So that's why the 3rd Strike fans hated SF4 when it came out, or why the MVC2 fans hated MVC3 when it first hit the scene.

Makes sense.

#3
CptMunta said on November 26, 2012 at 12:09 p.m.

Agree completely. Part of the reason why people don't give all these great new fighting games a chance and why people are pinning their hopes on the next big capcom fighter.

#4
zombiebrian said on November 26, 2012 at 12:11 p.m.

This is exactly what happened with 3S and 4 in some respects it took a long time for some players to bury that chip that was on there shoulder. Im sure some mvc3 players will tell you the same happened when it dropped.

Comparisons will instantly be made between games. I think you can also say that it hasnt helped that there has been a dumbing down of the games this gen. tbqh i honestly think that has also been a blessing but in places (sfxt) they went a tad to far with it.

The intresting thing will be next game where do they go do they find a balance go all hardcore again or go dumber still?

#5
illness690 said on November 26, 2012 at 12:16 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#6
BlankaBeast said on November 26, 2012 at 12:20 p.m.

True. Some of us are open to new challenges, but this is the reason some dont like SFxT when it is an awesome game.

So now they are tweaking/making it more like SF4, which we will see how that goes come jan 2013 edition.

#7
NoizyChild said on November 26, 2012 at 12:20 p.m.

SFxT isn't dumb at all. You still need links to do any real damage.

And being able to actually do combos is a blessing. SF4 feels so damn restricted with what you can and can't combo into or out of.

#8
zombiebrian said on November 26, 2012 at 12:21 p.m.

I think dumb was maybe a poor choice of words on my part but execution wise and pace wise i still feel 3S was faster and harder than sf4 execution wise. I myself prefer sf4 as a thinking mans game but somethings about it irritate me shortcuts mixed with auto-block for example.

Overall its more balanced but i can see why its not everybodys cup of tea

#9
zombiebrian said on November 26, 2012 at 12:26 p.m.

I honestly put in allot of time with sfxt and there was allot i didnt like about it but yo not everyone will like every game. I think assuming everyone hated it because it wasnt sf4 or were bandwagoning it up with everyone else is a silly idea. I despratly wanted to like the game bought the CE spent weeks trying to defend it but ultimately found i wasn't enjoying the game. When the patch comes i will try it out see if it can change my opinions.

#10
JIHADJOE said on November 26, 2012 at 12:26 p.m.

@5
I agree that's exactly why the SF3 series bombed. Parry was a nice mechanic, but it affected too many aspects of the game (like jump ins) that people's skills from SF2 were rendered irrelevant. "Don't jump" suddenly lost its meaning, as did a good part of the fireball game.

It's also the reason SF4 was so well received. It managed to introduce an interesting new mechanic (focus attack) while staying true to SF2 fundamentals. The same is probably true for TTT2. The skills people have invested in T6 are all there, along with an interesting new tag mechanic, and the rage management that comes with it.

#11
illness690 said on November 26, 2012 at 12:29 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#12
zombiebrian said on November 26, 2012 at 12:32 p.m.

@11 parrys certainly affected the player base it kinda divided them into people who can parry and people who suck at it (myself) If you could you lived for it if you couldnt the game sorta past you by.

#13
dust said on November 26, 2012 at 12:35 p.m.

I feel like this has very little to do with the reason why people do not like PASBR... It is not bad because it is different, it's bad because it's bad.

#14
zombiebrian said on November 26, 2012 at 12:36 p.m.

@12 I agree with it being hard to use Elena in 3S lol

How many time though have you been caught with a dp mashing or a command throw whirling during a block string though?

#15
Hackstermatrix said on November 26, 2012 at 12:37 p.m.

So that's why people hate SFXT and PSAS? makes sense.

#16
NoizyChild said on November 26, 2012 at 12:38 p.m.

#4

That doesn't make any sense. It's not Capcom's fault that Skullgirls, Virtua Fighter, P4A, or any of the other games aren't as popular or didn't take off. People just don't find them interesting. It's not like they don't have people playing them (Well, except for SG and VF). They just aren't "big time" games.

#17
illness690 said on November 26, 2012 at 12:39 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#18
niggardly said on November 26, 2012 at 12:46 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#19
mrambitious said on November 26, 2012 at 12:50 p.m.

I always want my $60 to go towards a NEW game. I stopped buying Halo games because its the same thing over and over and over and over. Ok now I can run, but the other 99% of the game is the same as Halo 1 from 10 years ago. Waste of money.

I enjoy PSAS, P4A, and SFxT because they are different. Sure SFxT has some really lame aspects, but P4A and PSAS really aren't bad games. NONE of my UMVC3 and SF skills translate to this game, that's absolutely true. But why do I want another $60 SF game with playstation characters... I would much rather have 5 totally different games then 5 games all built using the SF4 engine.

#20
Super_Honda said on November 26, 2012 at 12:51 p.m.

I wouldn't exactly say that newer fighting games are easy because they all play differently in their own right. For example: 3rd Strike players were bashing SF4 for many reasons and it is funny because if they think SF4 is easy, then they should be masters at that game. But, they fail to adapt to SF4 and it's been proven many times before. In fact, Seth Killian made a post on SRK about 2 years ago and he was talking about 2D fighting games vs 3D fighting games. He mentioned about how 3rd Strike affected the way 2D fighting games (mainly SF) was meant to be played.

IMO, 3rd Strike without the parries would end up being a much deeper game than it is right now. 1 example: shotos. Generally, fireball characters like Ryu and Ken have strategies which revolve around using fireballs and uppercuts. You would have to be good at zoning and spacing if you want to do well with those characters. To master the art of zoning and spacing is VERY hard. In 3rd Strike, you would have to almost ignore the fireball game and go for close-up game and since parry is the main aspect in 3rd Strike, you would have to learn the throwing game since they can counter parries any time. They're almost like non-fireball characters in 3rd Strike if you come to think of it. What I'm saying is that for those who struggle to play Ryu and Ken in other SF games, they may do well in 3rd Strike since they don't have to worry about the fireball game.

#21
mrambitious said on November 26, 2012 at 12:55 p.m.

@15

I was all about Q in SF3, which is probably why I didn't end up getting that into the HD remake. At some point I just was infuriated by constantly fighting Ken's. In a tournament I can see why everyone wants to be Chun-li and Ken just to win, but I just want people to branch out a bit for online play. In a game where some characters clearly can't beat another, it's kinda cheap to choose the OP character. I don't do it, but to each his own I guess.

#22
BlankaBeast said on November 26, 2012 at 12:55 p.m.

@ 8

Agree 100%

#23
mrambitious said on November 26, 2012 at 12:58 p.m.

@21

Wasn't Ryu not in 3rd strike?
Maybe I'm just making sh*t up, and I am definitely too lazy to google it at the moment.

#24
zombiebrian said on November 26, 2012 at 1:01 p.m.

@illness690

The game has a ton of tricky links some aren't as easy and dp mashing will work on allot of strings if you get 1f wrong your pretty much getting it

#25
Super_Honda said on November 26, 2012 at 1:01 p.m.

@24

Don't know if you're being sarcastic or not, but click on edit NOW before you get ripped apart. Your question: of course he's in it, he's the main man after all.

#26
illness690 said on November 26, 2012 at 1:04 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#27
Cammystrike said on November 26, 2012 at 1:11 p.m.

This is exactly what will happen with Darkstalkers 4. I've been lurking in the Darkstalker forums, and people pretty much want a new one to be the same thing as VS. So they can wreck shop on everyone, right out of the gate.

Being an 09er I guess I have a different mindset then the og's, but I prefer with new games, that everyone is on equal footing.

#28
MarvinVelasco12 said on November 26, 2012 at 1:12 p.m.

@Super_Honda, completely agree, the only game where i've been able to be decent with ken has been in third strike since i don't have to learn the spacing and zoning aspect of the character.

#29
Chrisuchiwa said on November 26, 2012 at 1:14 p.m.

Seth has to stop talking about Capcom games since He doesn't work for Capcom anymore.
Saying that, SSF4 isn't one of the hardest game to play. Blablue and KOF are way more difficult. Marvel would be a better example since it is easy to pick up but really hard to be a very good player.

#30
BarcelSnacks said on November 26, 2012 at 1:27 p.m.

# how the hell 3s teaches you to jump randomly if you need the skills to make the parry.

Damn this gen is horrible, 3s isn't just different, it's just plain BETTER

#31
CE_Dictator said on November 26, 2012 at 1:31 p.m.

@31

Oh, so 3rd Strike is the only game you claim to be good at? Exposed.

#32
niggardly said on November 26, 2012 at 1:34 p.m.

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#33
gohan16ken said on November 26, 2012 at 1:35 p.m.

For days people have been criticizing Seth for being the PR for PlayStation All-Star and then this excerpt of an interview is posted. I did not read the article but I think Seth ultimate indirect point is probably that people are disliking PlayStation All-Star because it is different and does not play like past fighting games they are familiar with. So to all those who agree with Seth and dislike PlayStation All-Stars, you have some explaining to do.

#34
MRnightmuffin said on November 26, 2012 at 1:36 p.m.

I don't agree with Seth. Let's face it, if Street fighter 5 stays the same it won't give new players a chance as already players like Daigo and Justin Wong will stay on that level that, let's be honest, with all their street fighter knowledge and experience other plays will never be able to reach.

Oh and btw @33 You're an idiot, third strike didn't flop, it was just street fighter 3 vanilla and second impact which didn't do so well. Sort of like how most capcom games don't do well in their vanilla periods

#35
EnsignHiro said on November 26, 2012 at 1:42 p.m.

I agree. Honestly its like going from marvel 2 to marvel 3. those pros from 2 didnt just move to 3 not knowing anything or having an idea at all. your investment should be rewarded for your hard work in previous installments of any said fighter. thats what makes fighting games spectacular they take a long time to master but pay off game after game for those who continue to play them. thats why we have so many pros!

#36
VFrank102 said on November 26, 2012 at 1:42 p.m.

The headline should read, "Seth Killian makes excuses as to why people aren't playing/buying playstation all stars".

#37
old_school_rival said on November 26, 2012 at 1:46 p.m.

@ 22 Most online players won't branch out because they're in it for the win, BP etc. In every fighter I've played this generation, online is usually dominated by a few characters. I've been playing SFXT lately and every team features at least one of five main characters. After a few matches the fun becomes redundant because everyone is playing for the win. At which point games are shelved indefinitely.

#38
zombiebrian said on November 26, 2012 at 1:51 p.m.

When it comes to DS im hoping they keep the pace but mix it up enough to be a new game.

#39
CptMunta said on November 26, 2012 at 1:51 p.m.

@17 I'm not blaming Capcom. We owe them for fighting games coming back in a big way in the west. Ask anyone why their scene blew up or started all over the world and they all answer because of sf4 or even ssf4.

I think people do find these games interesting but people have less and less time and more and more of these great games are coming out.

It's not Capcom's fault. They made several fantastic sequels to great franchises that people are familiar with. I just think it's a shame players complain about how they want something new to play but just can't see the forest for the trees.

#40
ya_boy said on November 26, 2012 at 1:52 p.m.

Lol at #37. A sad truth.
They should of released this game for $40 because it looks plain as hell. The character selection is probably the biggest reason this game won't do well.

#41
niggardly said on November 26, 2012 at 2 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#42
RebornOdin said on November 26, 2012 at 2:07 p.m.

#37

Congratulations, you didn't read the review at all, you just read the headline, then went straight down to the comments section.

#43
Kenshiro said on November 26, 2012 at 2:22 p.m.

Wow Niggardly really lives up to his username.

Makes outlandish comments and is hating on the best 2D Street Fighter title with nothing backing it other than the fact it didn't do major numbers.

Lazy sambo bum.

#44
InitialR said on November 26, 2012 at 2:27 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#45
Kenshiro said on November 26, 2012 at 2:34 p.m.

What Seth is saying is cool and all but this is has been conveyed in pretty much every fighting game out there. Finding a happy medium is what all devs should be looking to achieve with their games.

Also SFxT wasn't well recieved because Capcom got mad greedy...and gems. I mean the gems were a good idea when MSH came out but who honestly thought glow in the dark jewels were going to attract casuals and the vets alike?

Sorry there is such a thing as really sucky ideas.

Anyone complaining about MvC3's gameplay either has a short memory or is a straight up hypocrite. Mvc2 not only had less viable characters but there were clones galore and they were thrown in just because they were part of the crossover fad in the mid nineties.

#46
TheHeroPixel said on November 26, 2012 at 2:38 p.m.

Man, I'm sick of people saying 3s gave people bad habits when it came to jumping in and other things because "parries negated everything waaaah". That such a hand-wave thing to say. I might as well say SF4 is bad because it teaches people that fighting games are all about 50/50 set-ups, safe-jumps, and fireball spam, but that would be incorrect. Games don't give you "bad habits" for other games because you're not playing one game by another game's rule-set. Shut up with the apples and oranges already.

***I AM NOT ADVOCATING PARRYING IN OTHER GAMES*** Parry was a great mechanic. It added multiple layers of mind-games because you could bait them as well as use them. If you get parried, you got read, simple as that. People who don't like third strike hate parries because it's the most obvious mechanic by which other people can see you got read. In other games you can blame execution errors, bad timing, or look at your stick and go "oh my, what happened, that wasn't me!", but in 3s if you mess up and get parried you know your opponent read you like a book and you got punished for it. You don't have to like 3s, you don't have to play it, but don't make ignorant comments about what one game teaches you "ruining you" for other games, that's plain stupid.

#47
GunHammers said on November 26, 2012 at 2:48 p.m.

@47 are you stupid or retarded? super street fighter 4 is the most innovative fighting game since street fighter 2 the focuz system is more better than parry any day and anyone who plays 3 strike is a stupid lazy scrub and cant addapt to the harder playstle of sf4 , parry is the most mashabale theing in the world that game is so ez just parry parry parry into your bread and butter idk how u think it takes skill at all to do anything in the 3 strike see my in sf4 kid

#48
The8five8 said on November 26, 2012 at 2:51 p.m.

It's only natural for the comparisons to be made because they are part of the series..so ppl are expecting somewhat a similar engine, 3s to 4 was ok, but 4 to sfxt was crappp. It's like halo1 to halo3. Then all ova sudden halo vs cod wtfx

#49
Kenshiro said on November 26, 2012 at 2:56 p.m.

@48 You sound super retarded.

You can play and enjoy both games jackass. Your handwaving of the one that actually takes more skill to be better at is astonishing.

Go **** off.

#50
edrigo said on November 26, 2012 at 3:02 p.m.

People probably don't have an appetite for new fighters like they used to. I remember psone/dreamcast era there were plenty of fighting games new ips both 3d and 2d now we just have alot of sequels there just doesn't seem to be a desire from the general public to try something new. In the nineties early 2000's people were happy to try and buy new games without internet now there's a new game with familiar mechanics and nobodies tried it. I think it's cause the smash bros community hate it maybe? Yet they're probably the ones who i would have thought could at least try the game. I'm having the time of my life playing the new vf cause my good friend got it too that's all i need for now. I would try a brand new fg if it was a 3d fighter that tried something audacious and had really good animation.

#51
niggardly said on November 26, 2012 at 3:09 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#52
ronedaddy said on November 26, 2012 at 3:10 p.m.

@8

not gonna lie to you. you honestly do not have to do link to get any real damage in sfxt. I honestly do not know where you got that idea from and before you go crazy no I do not hate the game, i am just saying there is no real point in doing something that you do not have to do.

#53
jackbot said on November 26, 2012 at 3:28 p.m.

@2 (thf24) totally agree. i also see lots of people hating on umvc3, because of the damage output being so high compared to sf4. also, i see people playing online like they would play in sf4, and getting completely bodied. and then they say "this game sucks, i'm never playing this again"... different doesn't mean worse...

#54
Boogityboy said on November 26, 2012 at 3:30 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#55
TheHeroPixel said on November 26, 2012 at 3:35 p.m.

@52

Look, bro. I know you're probably a troll with a name like "niggardly", but let me clarify a few things about SF3 and it "being the cause of the video game crash".

First of all, at that point the fighting game market was already saturated, and it had a bunch of turds thrown into the mix, quite a few of which were Capcom's. Have we forgotten Fighting Jam? Fighting Evolution? Numerous other titles Capcom poured out with little effort that showed glaring problems? 3s was a return to solid fighting, a love letter to the community, but the damage had already been done by the games before it. It was the last notable thing Capcom did in fighting games for 10 years, so of course people blamed it for being the sole reason everything else died.

But it's just not that simple. Yes, 3s had a high entry barrier. I know that, I played it myself for years and I'm pretty good, but I'd still get crapped playing anyone who's at tournament level. That doesn't mean I can't enjoy it and step back to look at what a great game it truly is.

I like how you also missed the part where I said I was not for having parrying in another fighting game. 3rd strike did it right and it's the only game that will ever have it down correctly. Yeah it might not make million dollar tournaments, but I don't need it to for me to love it. I had perfectly good fun with every game I've played before any of them became 6-figure salaries for dudes I've never even met. I don't care where fighting games this gen are going, but I do care when people try to dismiss 3s as a solid fighter because it had a mechanic they didn't want to learn. Might as well say Marvel is stupid because it has TAC's (i don't like them much myself) or SFIV is stupid because it has ultras (I don't like them much either), but I don't because I respect what each game is trying to bring to the table. Please pull your head out of your butt.

#56
Teohkaka said on November 26, 2012 at 4 p.m.

I more than willing to pick a new fighting game and learn new mechanics. But there are base mechanics/mind sets/ thought patterns that can be applied to most fighters, after playing so many.

Especially with fighting franchises with sequels , like street fighters . Many base mechanics are fairly consistent through all series of the franchise. All that's needed to learn the advanced offensive/ defensive mechanics and meter usage specific to that iteration of Street Fighter.

There's very little excuse not to pick up playing a new street fighter game , if you've been playing the series through many iterations anyway. From World Warriors, to Alpha , EX , Third Strike to 4 , all has used six buttons and hold back for block. ( OK throwing changed after SF3 , but boo hoo ) Aren't you even comfortable knowing that's not going to change. Why are you people scared of moving on to play SF5 ? Don't be lazy.

Just learn a new system specifics . All your fundamentals will carry over , just like they have since every other SF game you've played. Especially if you're character loyal or lazy to learn a new one. Let's not act like your crouching Medium Kick suddenly isn't going to be special cancelable into hadouken .... because it's been like that for over a decade and something's will never change.

All the guys who don't want to try out the new game/sequel from the current game they're playing and adapt , are doing a huge disservice to themselves as a player , because they're going to be a leg up on people who are newcomers and just learning, while you already have prior knowledge.

#57
jesuslovessatan said on November 26, 2012 at 4:05 p.m.

for some reason i feel like this reverse psychology PR that Seth is trying to do is a lil scummy. like im gonna start playing this smash rip-off cuz i dont wanna seem like some close-minded player. please seth. if the game is good, it will be played. nuff said. enuff of these PR shenanigans.

#58
gammabolt17 said on November 26, 2012 at 4:23 p.m.

@56 First, Fighting Jam/Evolution is the same game. Second, SF3 came BEFORE that, as evidenced by 3rd strike characters being in the game. There was nothing to return to. Mechanics aside, people also hated on SF3 for having a completely new cast outside of Ken and Ryu. That's why we ended up with Chun and Akuma later on. I'm not going to necessarily say SF3 caused the crash, but if it wasn't such a departure I don't think fighters would have died out like that. Other genres get oversaturated, too, but they don't just fizzle out like fighting games almost did.

#59
xanderglz said on November 26, 2012 at 4:25 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#60
edrigo said on November 26, 2012 at 4:56 p.m.

@56 i agree on most accounts actually i would say in a previous post i miss those days in the nineties earl 00's the best fighting games at the time (for me) all had excellent parry systems funny enough soulcalibur/tekken3/sf3s/doa (doa mostly didn't have huge damage counters more parries)

@57 pro gamers can be the worst adopters of new mechanics/game engines but non pro's are just as guilty these days with the way they treat new games but what new games are they? Most are sequels it's alot harder to try new things and still sell really well (3rdstrike) or have people adopt agree with said new mechanics.

SF5 needs to come out next gen if it came out sooner it would be too similar to sf4 (see the darkstalkers teaser) they definitley use the same engine at this point.

#61
100thMonkey said on November 26, 2012 at 6:16 p.m.

Jeez, this whole comment section is full of retarded assumptions and idiotic opinions about games they never really played enough in both 3s and Sf4.

The worst is the understanding of 3s's parry system. The whole "parry is just a win button/mechanic" concept is plain dumb if you've played more than 5 matches against someone half decent at the game. The whole idea jump ins, air-to-air and anti-airs are useless is stupid, it teaches you a different meta game switching between different attacks when they are parrying to mess with their timing of the move they expect. Every fundamental is still there, its just DIFFERENT, just like any other fighting game.

Also 3s didn't kill fighting games, 3s was also a flop for more than just being "too advanced" or the supposely "win mechanic" parry system. The biggest one was the market oversaturation with game companies overflooding the market with several hardly different games which people grew bored with. The only time fighting games really "trended" was the SF2 days as it was new and exciting. Second Capcom wanted a new cast, people hate change and grown towards their old favourites.

Thirdly, look how many consoles SF2 and its several versions were ported to and look at Sf3. One compliation of NG and SI and one 3s on dreamcast during their peak times. Dreamcast was the easiest console ever to bootleg, shoutouts to utopia, no chips required, just an easily acquirable boot CD. This was made worst due to how more and more new computers were being shipped with CD and DVD burning capabilities. 3s didn't come to PS2 or Xbox till 2004, and their versions still couldn't handle CPS3 technology.

Neither game is exactly better or harder, swings and roundabouts. The time games are released in your lifetime greatly affect these areas. SF2 i was young and naieve to understand fighting games which is why i've probably never got into it as older people did that i knew. Sf3 I was older, visiting arcades and understanding fighting games, i gained alot of fun times and memories with friends and strangers over the game.

Also GunHammers/#48 that is the most brainnumbingly retarded thing i ever read, you should ring up guiness to see if you broke a record, or atleast seek serious help. Try spamming parry, a half decent player who knows what they are doing will expose you. Wish this site had a feature to automatically locate players gamertags to expose serious blaggers and bs'ers. Saying that the site would be half empty lol

#62
MaverickHunterX said on November 26, 2012 at 6:21 p.m.

Perhaps the reason why I got to like SFxT is because I didn't took SF IV that seriously. If I invested time in SF IV I might end up disliking SFxT.

#63
TaoTuna said on November 26, 2012 at 6:46 p.m.

How did this thread go from seth's opinion of new fighting game acceptance, to was 3rd strike a crappy game or not?

The way i see it, mashing parry in 3rd strike is as viable as mashing a dp in sf4, this will only be viable against scrubs and noobs, no more, no less. If you got beat by someone mashing parry, then reason being was that you weren't good, sad but true. If you mashed parry, and whooped a lot of people then congrats, you can beat scrubs and noobs.

#64
AfroMH said on November 26, 2012 at 7:20 p.m.

@44 You do know that niggardly means "cheap, frugal" right? Not what you're thinking it means. Stay free, idiot.

#65
AfroMH said on November 26, 2012 at 7:26 p.m.

@53 Actually, in SFxT, if you want any real, non-recoverable damage, you have to do links. Chain combos give 100% recoverable health.

#66
Erichful said on November 26, 2012 at 8:04 p.m.

So... Is all star fun then?

#67
dorayaki said on November 26, 2012 at 9:14 p.m.

look here Tardfaces, don't try to talk about market saturation or any other words you don't understand - especially when you were about 10 years old at the time. SF3 wasn't popular because it deviated from the feel of SF2 tremendously. It wasn't a true SF game. It took three versions of SF3 for people to warm up to it and its wacky characters (Q, oro, necro, that wacky white thing, etc).

SF alpha series kept a similar mechanic as SF2 series. Sf3 was way different - fireballs were useless, blocked sweep meant big punish, you can jump in and parry and punish a dragon punch, no familiar characters came back, etc. Sf4 smartly put a bit of SF2 back into the mix. Point is, Sf3 was a totally different game and a lot of SFers dropped off because of it.

So what dude was saying is partly correct. People don't want a totally different game when a sequel comes out. However, it's more bcuz of familiarity rather than maintaining skill. I wouldn't mind re-learning SF again. But i don't want to have to learn PitFighter just bcuz it has a character named Ryu in it. If you rats don't get that concept, just meditate on it for a bit.

#68
chipndip said on November 26, 2012 at 10:29 p.m.

Ok, lets clear things up:

1) SF3 and SF4 are BOTH hard to master, and for their own reasons. SF3's parry system isn't "easy". If you miss, you eat fists. If you land it, you still gotta put in your input or parry EVEN MORE. In SF4, ultra combos can even a game out at any second, meter management can make or break anyone, and links are pretty damn tough to do (not in comparison to KOF...which is insane...). Who cares which one's harder? If I had to pick...I'd proooooobably lean towards SF4, but that's because the community fleshed that game out like crazy + I'm personally better at SF3 anyway (started with 4, but didn't keep up with it past Super).

2) Seth has a point. TTTT didn't diverge much from T6, and their fans are happy. Blazblue never changes, and their fans are happy. Why? Cause the dudes that are good today are good tomorrow. Meanwhile, SF X TKN, MVC3, and SF4 all had their fair share of bs to get past, and only 2 of them have gotten past it yet. Why? Cause SF X TKN had a fail launch + all of them diverged from games before them. Even if Seth's just making excuses as to why PSA isn't that popular with the FGC, it doesn't mean he isn't right. Cause he is. Maybe SF X TKN can pull a SF3 and come back from the brink? I'd love for people to stop bashing it like it's a mission so we could see that happen (I still got the game, and I still play it. Getting TTTT first thing for winter break on psn).

3) Familiarity is important too. That's why SF3 didn't work out so well for the longest time. It had a pretty cool resurgance recently, though, so it aged well, unlike MVC. It deserves props in that regard at least.

4) @63: That's EXACTLY why. Too many people wanted SF X TKN to be like SFIV. It wasn't, yet they still play the game like they would SFIV. No one's going for the harder stuff. Everyone's going for the measly 300-400 damage launcher + follow-up combos. It's a shame, but Capcom's trying to fix that up.

#69
M1Punk said on November 26, 2012 at 11:03 p.m.

Why does anyone even care what Keth Sillian has to say anymore? He works for a company who recently developed a freaking party game...

Just ban his ass from the FGC.

#70
lukecage83 said on November 27, 2012 at 1:15 a.m.

OR maybe the new game just sucks?

I was playing SFA2-3 pretty hard before I got into 3S - and while they're both SF games, they couldn't be any more different from each other. But I fell in love w/3S right off the bat. I was playing 3S pretty hard before I got into IV. I was turned off by early screen shots (because it went 3D), but after playing it, I was hooked. III and IV have nothing in common aside from the fact they carry the same title, and some characters. So not every body hates on a game because it doesn't carry the same traits as a previous title that (insert person here) liked. Maybe, as I've said before, the game just sucks!

#71
Guybrush20X6 said on November 27, 2012 at 2:34 a.m.

So that explains why SF had a long line of "slightly different costumes" editions

#72
ciksoisdkj said on November 27, 2012 at 3:57 a.m.

(This user was banned.)

#73
rosy said on November 27, 2012 at 4:45 a.m.

Is that why they put SFxT system gems in the game? To help people think is not SF4? Pfftt, stupid moves.

#74
Kenshiro said on November 27, 2012 at 5:37 a.m.

@65

Yeah he's free as hell with his loose lips and doesn't know what the eff he's eff he's talking about.

Hop off my dick Afro-homo.

#75
keroberus2 said on November 27, 2012 at 6:01 a.m.

@71 #71

The viewpoint differs from person to person, we can't generalise viewpoints entirely, like Seth's. Though this viewpoint has been seen a TON in the community, it was very notable from 3S to 4- I remember when Vanila came out and there was so much angst and hate towards the ultras and focus attacks being 'skillless parries'.

I liked SFxT. The only reason why I stopped playing the game was because so many people were openly verbally bashing the game in EVERY SINGLE threat and forum and youtube comments section and live stream and article on Eventhubs that people who DO enjoy the game [believe it or not, there still is a big enough following] can't go anywhere to enjoy it. When I try watching an SFxT stream and the commentator's going "When's MvC3 on? this game sux @$$" every 2 minutes, the hell am I meant to enjoy it?

The community had decided the game was going to be rubbish as soon as 1) Gems were announced 2) On Disk DLC existed [the main main reason that people were determined to hate on this game].

#76
FightDirty said on November 27, 2012 at 10:07 a.m.

IDK - I love to play Alpha3, 3rd Strike, AND SF4. They are all very different, however they are all very solid fighters.

SFxTekken isn't as bad as some people make it out to be, but the fiasco with those crappy gems & DLC has really hurt it.

I like MvC3 yet find MvC2 broken and unplayable .... go figure.

PSAS is just trash; a joke of a fighting game.

#77
xShonuffx said on November 27, 2012 at 12:35 p.m.

This is how I felt about Soul calibur 5. Its a great game but the character I put the most effort into was Ivy, then they changed her up soooo much. Now before you say thats only one character I also liked Mitsurugi and he even got toned down a bit. Everything I invested in was watered down and im not rewarded for everything I learned in past SC games.

TTT2 does the opposite for me. Lei Uulong is a character I heavily invested in since Tekken 3, so far he has not changed much at all and everything added is just extra icing on the cake.

This is just my personal experience though, everyone is different.

#78
100thMonkey said on November 27, 2012 at 4:51 p.m.

@68 You sound about 12 using tardfaces, i'm guessing you were about 10 and speak about subjects you truely don't understand. You use the same "parrying is so easy" bullsh!t which plagues people who never played the game. The person dp'ing you must be doing it way too early to be able react to 3 frames each time. That and not switching up their AA's. Most players wont parry unless they are sure about thier opponents options or is a move with seriously bad startup (which 3 frame uppercuts werenare not) but you would know this right. Don't speak on subjects

And this "SF3 wasn't a true SF" nonsense is another comment to wave away any valid points, you might as well say alpha wasnt one for air blocking and custom combos or sf4 for ultras, invincible backdashes and focus attacks. New games require new mechanics to keep players interested and keep the games distinct and fresh. If i am spending 40 plus on a new game, i don't want it to feel like the old one. They took risks to differeniate SF3 from every other series and capitalize on their new hardware, it wasn't to everyone's taste. SF3 is as street fighter as every other one.

09'er confirmed, which isn't a entirely bad thing, but it is when they try to pretend to be knowledgable about subjects they don't truely understand.

#79
Eye_of_Orochi said on November 27, 2012 at 5:40 p.m.

First of all, I don't think I've ever read a post by Super_Honda I didn't start slow clapping for....lol that's an exaggeration but we should all be listening to this guy!

Secondly, 3rd Strike defenders always have the WORST attitudes. Your arrogance and insults (count how many were compelled to call people names) will get you nowhere in this community. Some of you don't even make sense and are just riding 3S's **** as usual. No, I'm not hating on 3S, but its fans are terrible.

"You're an idiot, third strike didn't flop"
"Is that why they put SFxT system gems in the game? To help people think is not SF4? Pfftt, stupid moves."
"parry is the most mashabale theing in the world that game is so ez just parry parry parry"

Tsk tsk FGC, you can do better than this nonsense.

@ 60

So calling people names, throwing around curse words and being completely condescending should get poster of the year? WOW, okay. TheHeroPixel, Teohkaka and chipndip gave a much better input in one post than that guy did in like 5+ posts without being rude.

#80
Kenshiro said on November 27, 2012 at 10:09 p.m.

@80

Just calling them like I see them. I can be cool and debate a topic but there is no debating stupid crap.

If my language offends you it may mean your balls haven't dropped or you're a newb to the way of the internet in general. Either way you sound soft.

#81
durenis said on November 28, 2012 at 1:53 a.m.

PSASBR is fun and legitimate. People are playing it and enjoying it. I'm enjoying it.

People who are criticizing Seth aren't able to recognize that he is being honest and optimistic, which are the things that have kept him relevant to the community.

There is no reason to be upset. Let's just play some games, friends.

#82
Eye_of_Orochi said on November 28, 2012 at 3:59 p.m.

@ 81

LOL sorry to laugh but I'm anything but soft. I just don't think you have to throw that stuff around to get your point across....it just makes you look childish. I actually agree with some of your points, but like I said other people got their point across without being a bully.

People tend to see eye to eye on things when you actually put yourself ON their level instead of above it yelling it down to them like they are peasants.

#83
BumblebeeCody said on November 28, 2012 at 4:20 p.m.

Seth may not be in Capcoms grips anymore but that doesn't make his opinion any less valid. The transition between MvC2 to Mvc3 was BS. Lets get characters dial combos and x-factor mechanics. But from 3s to SF4 wasn't as harsh. Focus Attacks are parrying plus the follow up attack. Inputs are easier but not changed unlike MvC3. I always viewed SFxT as a game on it's own. I never compared it to SF4, and for that reason when I look at is a stand alone game, it sucks. I didn't like it because I disagreed with the gameplay mechanics, not because it didn't play like SF4.

#84
SteadiestShark said on December 3, 2012 at 6:58 a.m.

I still find it hilarious when people think that links = being smart.

No, timmy - ZONING and MIXUPS are smart, LINKS are execution.

#85


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