Mago and Tokido play Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 in online ranked games

mago is training hard on umvc3. lol

I kept hoping a Kappa face would somehow make it onto the stream chat

i find it odd that more jp players are starting to get into marvel and not sfxt.

You find it odd? Really?

I don't get why these Japanese streams always make the actual gameplay window so small. Do I really need to see the chat window? Do I need to see their hands? Does a window of them sitting at a table add anything? Oh, and I couldn't live without seeing the logo for the steam of course...

Haha, I don't think it's odd at all that ANYONE, Japanese, American, Kenyan, or otherwise is getting into, arguably, the most exciting and balanced fighting game on the market and not into the most boring and dull game instead. I don't remember the tournament recently (Civil War??), but the one SFxT where Infiltration beat Chris G with Rolento just completely exposed every flaw in that game, in my mind. I just completely turned it off mentally from there. It's now the "Time to go make a sandwich" game on the streams.

Not to hate too much here, but I'm seeing fairly well-used, well-known teams doing week 1 BnB's. When people on here talk about how Japan is full of innovators with new tech and the US is just a bunch of tier whoring, repetitive scrubs, I think I'm going to link this video.

@6

Marvel is the most balanced? lol oh wow.

It's not? How many characters in UMVC3 are unusable or unable to be effective on a team? From what I can tell, 1. Phoenix Wright.

Other than that, every character is valid, there are no "I play Zangief and here comes a Seth player" type uphill battles. Any team can kill any team unless you're just completely clueless about picking teams or just be trying to lose (eg: picking Haggar/Phoenix Wright/Tron against a Morrigan/Doom/Strider combo).

@5 LOL I was just thinking the exact same thing. Its like they focused more on everything else rather than the gameplay itself.

@8

Your definition of balanced is flawed, it's not a question of usable or not, everyone is usable, you just don't win anything with them that's all. Also 1vs1 fighters rely heavily on matchups, Marvel is about team composition, but it's mechanic has always been over the top since Marvel 1, 2 and then now 3 with full screen super, x factor, assists, it's very difficult to be controlled with such insanity on screen with the huge hitbox and stuff, sometime the player doing the setup are confused which way it's gona hit, it doesn't help with the fact it has huge roster because it's a cross over game. Marvel has a reputation for unbalanced game play, in fact it was solely built on unbalanced gameplay. Is it fun and enjoyable to watch? Maybe, but is it balanced? Far from it.

@10 You just contradicted yourself saying that UMvC3 is unbalanced, but then went on to say that it relies on team composition more than anything. What he was trying to say,was that as long as you have a decent team synergy combination, you can use almost any character and win consistently. Just look at Royal Flush, he uses arguably the worst characters in the game by themselves, but when put together they actually work well evidenced by him always making top 8 or top 16. This games is the most balanced of the new Capcom games, and in most peoples eyes the most exciting to watch.

@11

No you are wrong, team composition is less controlled mechanic where you have to worry about each of your team members against their 3 individual members, where street fighter is more controlled and you focus on practicing one matchup against 1 specific character, your example of Royal Flush making top 8 and 16s shows this game is balanced lol? I really need to question these Marvel player's logic...

tequilasauer

I'd say Dan in SSF4AE2012 has a better chance VS Cammy (The assumed top tier) than a team of Hsien-Ko, Phoenix Wright and Tron Bonne has against a top tier team, but that's just my two cents.

Mago: FUDAI! FUDAI! FUDAI!

@12

You are the guy who said ''Umvc3 is not main game of any tournament'' right ?

Of course Marvel3 is a very balanced and exciting game.
So do AH3, too. But AH3 is not my type of a game.
So i guess Marvel is not your type of a game..
But you cant say its not good game.

I see you are SSF4 hardcore fan.
To me SSF4 is on its limits. It became boring, nothing new or creative setups, its slow etc..
But I cant say SSF4 is unbalanced, terrible, side event game.
I play almost every character in SSF4 except Yang/Yun/Zangief..The game has nothing new to me now.
But in marvel3 there are still 10-15 characters i still wanna practice. Even I find new setups with my main team in every practice.

No need to deny.
Respect umvc3

As a game designer I can say that UMVC3 is a pretty balanced game. The fact that there are MANY extremely good characters as well as LOTS of perfectly viable characters testify to this. The game is balanced in a way which gives certain characters the ability to shine in a certain role (assist, battery, user). The fact that new tech is still being discovered to day is also a great proof that this is a very well balanced game (like how Morrigan is suddently considered godlike). If you take a look at top 16 of any tournament you will see many different teams and that's what matters. There are some bad characters but they aren't many and that's natural to any game like this. The fact that P.Wright/T.Bonne/Hsien-Ko is probably not a good team is not because they are poor characters on their own but is because the team is poorly built. This is a team game and you can build lots of viable teams. Picking 3 random characters and pretend that they can work is just wrong. It's like in card games where there are certain cards that are considered strong but ultimately is how you build your deck that matters and in card games tier lists are complied considering deck types, not single cards. You can't blame the game designers because you put together 60 random cards in Magic The Gathering and you lost.
My 2 cent.

*sigh*...team high-tier-douchebags always wins...

@12 HAHA you're the guy who said UMvC3 isn't the main game in any tournaments and got really angry and denied when I said it's the main event of SBO this year. I saw the post here on Eventhubs it was the last slot for day two of SBO, so yes it it the main event this year. Also, read my post again, nowhere did I say this game is balanced because Royal Flush makes top 8. I said that he uses some of the worst characters in the game, but their synergy as a team makes him do well with them. Like what #16 said, this game is balanced BECAUSE of it's team based nature. Morrigan was always good, but never top tier until she was used with the right team. Anybody (with 1 or 2 exceptions) can be viable in this game with the right team. In AE if you pick a low tier, be prepared for a really uphill battle. Oh, and I'm mainly an AE player, so calling me a "Marvel player," wouldn't really be the right term.

@18

Because it is a team game so it's balanced? You forgot what happened to Marvel 1, 2 and vanilla Marvel 3 lol? You don't even make a solid point by bringing up a player like Royal Flush. no offence to the player but since when is he of any threat in Marvel? This is largely because his team of course. Don't get me wrong I play Marvel, just casually with friends and never took it seriously that's all. 6-4 matchup in AE is playable, Dakou's Ryu sent Fuudo's Fei to losers in SS and eliminated him in losers. 7-3 is uphill but playable, that's the case for all 1vs1 fighters, you have your good matchups and bad matchups.

@12

You are off the topic, what does it have to do with it being main game or not? The topic is about if Marvel is balanced or not, the rest of your post is completely off topic... seriously couldn't care less about what interest you or not.

@15,18

When did I say 'Umvc3 is not main game of any tournament?', got a link? I don't even remember what I said a few months ago, looks like we have some serious stalkers here that needs to get a life...

@16

I'm sorry but your point is invalid, 'The fact that there are MANY extremely good characters as well as LOTS of perfectly viable characters testify to this.' hmm no, not that many for a cross over game. 'The fact that new tech is still being discovered to day is also a great proof that this is a very well balanced game', this just doesn't make sense, it's all related to the game's mechanics, its a cross over 3vs3 game with assists mechanic and weird hit boxes and fast dash, air dash and air block, allowing for more setups, this has nothing to do with balance.... 'If you take a look at top 16 of any tournament you will see many different teams and that's what matters.' This is just dumb, its a team game of course it's gona be different, one character difference in a team still makes it a different team...
no offence but what game have you been involved in? Or are you still a student?

@22
I consider at least 25-28% of the cast to be really good and at least another 30% to be perfectly viable. For a 50 character game, having over 30 viable characters is a great success in terms of balancing. Balancing means making the game time-proof. The fact that new tech is still being discovered today is normal for a game this huge but no game-breaking strategies are emerging yet. Just like people eventually got used to Phoenix and people like Filipino Champ are considering removing them from their main team. Just like Wesker isn't considered such a threat or broken character as before. In the exact same way people will find a way to keep Morrigan at bay and hopefully the game will survive the test of time for a few more years. The fact that there are many different teams, even if they differ by just one character (without counting team order, which is huge) is a proof of a balanced game. An unbalanced game is a game where you can CLEARLY see a dominant strategy (or 2-3) and it's the only winning strategy. There are many unbalanced games and it's frustrating from time to time to see that Magic the Gathering tournaments are composed of people playing just 2 or 3 decks with little to no variation between them.
You don't bring up very good arguments to your point and you're not being very reasonable or polite either, but.. you know.. it's the internet.
And to answer your last point I've been in the gaming industry for over 5 years now, I worked on several boardgames, cardgames and videogames.

umvc3 is a fun game but its not the most balanced. Kof13, AE2012 and Blazblue CS:EX are more balanced. And I doubt umvc3 is going to be the main event at SBO lol

@23

Balancing is not about time-proof, this is where you are wrong, it has nothing to do with time-proof. Pong is a balanced game, it's not really time-proof, people get over it quiet fast...balance is how much players can control their target and the situation in the simplest of form. When you add many mechanics like x factor touch of death, air dash, air block, full screen supers, assists, weird hit box that hits behind target, supers cancels into supers and big roster, it's almost impossible to balance the game. In fact there is no such thing as a balanced cross over game, at least not yet that I could think of.

@25
The number of mechanics has nothing to do with balancing. Balancing lays on a higher layer of design. Pong is "not balanced" in the common sense of term because it doesn't really need to be balanced since it's a symmetric game. Fighting games are asymmetric games.
And by time proof I mean a game where a dominant strategy doesn't emerge ever or until a long period of time has passed.
I could explain it to you but I prefer to link to this nice article by David Sirlin about balancing asymmetric games.

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/balanc...

@26

I'm just completely mind blown, I never thought Marvel being balanced or not is even an argument, I thought it is one of the most over the top and unbalanced game ever made and universally claimed so, I don't need to read an essay on that because that's how it is in practice and reality. I plays Marvel 1 and 2 for its unbalanced and over the top infinites (mainly op chars) and Marvel 3 casually but to think it is balanced? Consider me mind blown.

@26

Also would you call a mirror match in fighting game symmetric?
Because both players starts with the same set of options?

@28
That's a very interesting question. I would suppose that, yes, a mirror match is a symmetric situation in an asymmetric game.

@29

In other words, for a balanced symmetric game to occur in Marvel, all 6 characters needs to be identical for both players to occur? That's quiet rare would't you agree? David Sirlin also talked about Marvel 2 and the amount of characters viable in tournament giving 10 as generous in a cross over game. To think that Marvel 3 suddenly became the balanced game from that most unbalanced game...I guess Capcom needs to thank us for testing vanilla Marvel 3 and it's game breaking infinites. /sarcasm

Seriously, read that article in full.
Anyway I'm talking about UMvC3 here, I don't care about vanilla or previous VS games.

@31

I read it, it doesn't apply to Marvel 3 too much, for me personally. Everyone has their definition of balance, and for me, I see it less in UMarvel 3 than other games. Let's agree to disagree.

Wow, I didn't mean to derail the thread with my comment about balance, haha.

The thing about Marvel is that it's the fact that it's SO unbalanced that makes it balanced. Nearly every character (except Phoenix Wright) has at least one thing that is cheap, absuable, and overpowered. Thus, anyone can really beat anyone (except Phoenix Wright). I think EVO will be the official heralding of the rise of the Vergil, but in another year, I wouldn't be surprised to see majors with Top 8s loaded with characters with more complex meta-game like Raccoon, Chris, Strange, etc. It's the beauty of the game, C and D tier is not just viable, it's dangerous. Ever played somebody who rocks a Chris point and Hsien-Ko assist? They can lock down the midfield entirely. It's infuriating.

I think only KOF13 can match it right now in terms of balance, but it's a little early to say for sure right now. Other than that, no game is showing majors with such a diverse batch of characters, including AE 2012.

@34

AE2012 has way more diverse character usage, maybe you missed Topanga charity cup 5vs5 and Topanga 3vs3, I think I saw every character being used in that tourney. But you can't compare 1vs1 fighting games to 3vs3 games in terms of diversity because 1 character in a team is still a different team and order matters, you might as well compare to another 3vs3 cross over game, which doesn't say much regarding game balance.

@21 ''When did i say Marvel is not a main game? Got a link? ''

Here you go : http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2012/ma...

''SuperStraightFighter said on May 24, 2012 at 6:27 p.m.
UMVC3 is a great game lol? Like really? Ok then I got nothing else to say, no comment.
Marvel is not the main event and never will be, its a cross over game so get over it? Main event will always be the main series games like AE2012. Know your facts before you speak.
''

You have some bad opinions about umvc3, thats all.

@13

Tron can do 900k damage with one touch.
Hsein-ko can be the best assist when you activate the gold.
Phoenix Wright is a killer but with just turnabot mode

I think you dont know deep about marvel.
I remember a Hsein-ko player tear me up last week.

Fights over the internet? Oh my, enter your shelters.

The team aspect is definitely part of the balance. Because, again, it makes everyone viable. Kusoru beat a tournament of killers with 2 B/C tier characters. Justin has won several majors with Iron Fist.

Even just going off of the point characters ALONE to even up the fact that SSF is one character, the top 5 of Marvel at UFGT was a Morrigan, Spiderman, Wolvie, V.Joe, and Zero. SSF4 had 3 Rufus's in top 5 (Floe switched between Rufus and Guy depending on matchups). I love both games, but to me, there's no denying that Marvel's low-end characters have way more usefulness and viability in the game than SSF4. Partially due to the team aspect, partially technology, and partially the damage output.

I don't see it as a fight. It's a discussion. A stupid one, but one nonetheless. It's like when you were a kid and you argued with friends whether or not the Autobots were more badass than GI Joe.

@ 37

True, I don't know as much about Marvel as I do Street Fighter, but I personally don't see Marvel 3 being more balanced than Street Fighter ATM, since the bottom tier doesn't seem so far away from the top tier in SF.

My 2 pence
MvC3 is one of the worst fighting games I've played. Being proud of playing of playing MvC3 is like being proud of being friends with a guy who slaughtered 100 people in a killing spree.
You should only play Marvel if you're playing to win. Other than that's it a spectator sport.
LMHS MMHS OTG Super = MvC3 in a nutshell

@ 36

Lol burned!!!!!

@ 42

I'm guessing you just suck... If the game gets the most views on streams, doesn't it mean that it's a good game?

@42
Yeah, you just try it aganist me and lets see how can you win.

This must be your formula too:
LP,LP,MP,Special,Fadc,ultra = sf4

@36

LOL!!!!!

Guys, take it easy. This argument over balance looks set to go on forever. Enjoy your favourite games, just like I enjoy playing SF4, SFxT and the legendary SF2.

Well, well, well. It looks like someone got exposed big time. Should call himself, SuperStraightFighter: Exposed Edition. Secret last boss: HolyGhost.

@HolyGhost haha, thanks for finding that for me and shutting him up. Discussions about UMvC3 with that guy is like talking to a wall, you'll never progress. I was talking about how team synergy can create balance, I never said anything about UMvC3 being a great game, although in my opinion it is. I'm just going to have to realize that he hates UMvC3, and will only bash it and say how much better AE is.

#47

You enjoy SFxT? So you're the one!

I love them both. AE 2012 and UMVC3. But UMVC3 is the first game to get me obsessed in fighting games since Third Strike and MvC2. AE 2012 brought me back to the game after the Yun/Fei-fest of the original AE.

Both are great. But I feel like people unfairly dismiss UMVC3 as unbalanced or broken because they either don't understand or they picked it up for a month, got blown out by a couple XF3 Weskers or Phoenix's, ragequitted, and never looked back.

But it's such a DEEP game once you really get into it. So many good characters, team synergies, and technologies.

@36

My comment was directed at your comment which was 'its main event in USA,Europe,Canada,Mexico,Kuwait,Japan.. wth r u talking about', this is completely not true.

Good to see we have some serious retards here who couldn't even read...

Exposed lol? You guys tried way too hard... since when is Marvel main event in Europe, Canada, Mexico, Kuwait and Japan (SBO2012)? It's not a popular game anywhere in the world besides USA, actually it's the least played game anywhere in the world, exposed lol?

I hope competitors from all over compete at EVO. Can't wait!

@superstraightfighter

You are unbelievable.
You know my that post is reply to :

''Also UMvC3 is most definitely not the main event at every major unless you only count those in US.''

and you had the same idea.
Then yesterday you changed your mind, now you are changing your mind again to defend yourself.

Its not a big deal, just let it go or say yeah sorry i was wrong about that..
Jesus..