Fighterpedia Episode 12 - Is Smash Bros a fighting game?

Well I would say melee was a fighter but I dont think brawl is I mean smash isnt ment to be a real fighter its basically mario party+fighting the next smash will be even more of a party game

...the only reason i'm here is because i unchecked "other fighting games" in my news filter, because i'm looking forward anything related to DOA...too bad i have to deal with anything other than DOA...

Party game, not enough depth to be a fighter i mean, specials moves are up down right B and theres smashes. Thats about it if you want to win easy ;O but the fighting aspect thats in it is how every characters are differents at these attacks and how you learn each of them but its way easier to master each of them than lets say any other games

good stuff, Fighterpedia. good points on both sides. and shoutouts to the Warrior of Canada. Kage <3

@4: DomDaDude:

day 2 Melee player: dash-dance away from your smash, punish you for being a dumbass spammer with a 0-death.

#4: Learning curve has nothing to do with it being part of a genre or not. Mega Man is way harder than Mario, but they're still both platformers.

Yes Smash is made to have fun, but at it's core it is still a fighting game. Player vs Player, they fight each other until one wins, there are strategies to beat other players, each character is unique and has his own playstyle/strategies and a new player will definitely not be able to beat a good player.

Is it a conventional fighting game? Hell no. Is it a unique style of fighting game? Yes and it sure is fun to fight other people in it.

It is a fighting game series. Period.

LMAO @ This comment from the comments section in the video:

"Quitting Brawl can be difficult. People can be helped during the time an intervention is delivered; however, most intervention programs are short-term (1–3 months). Within 6 months, 75–80 percent of people who try to quit Brawl relapse. Research has now shown that extending treatment beyond the typical duration of a Brawl cessation program can produce quit rates as high as 50 percent at 1 year."

Hahahahaahaha, that made my day.

I think creator intent is huge. In response to fans asking Masahiro Sakurai about things like balance and competitiveness, he has said time and time again that the Smash Bros series isn't meant to be a fighting game because they didn't make the games with the intent to make them highly competitive. That's why items, hazardous stages, and random variables exist within the game.

The argument about SF2 not originally being intended to have actual combos is plausible at first, but the devs for SF2 went and embraced it in response to the fanbase and we saw new iterations of the game that catered to those things as a result. Smash Bros' devs on the other hand don't pay any attention to this because they are already set on the formula they want to run with, and unfortunately that formula is not that of a fighting game's. That's why the Smash Bros community continually adds all these stipulations and extra rules to make their games competitive. Hell, as it was mentioned at the end of the video, they literally went and did what devs didn't want to do themselves, and created a "competitive" version of Brawl via a mod. If the fanbase has to go to THAT length to make it a tournament-level game, can we really call it a fighting game?

Is Super Smash Brothers a Fighting Game? Yes it is but Masahiro Sakurai and the rest of Nintendo never intended for it to be used in professional level play and never will see it as being that kind of experience. just look at all of the adjustments made from melee to brawl.

Its a party game series .Period

This game is a fighting but not other modern fighters and it's gameplay is not unique anymore and it's hard to learn to play for me that is and it's boring!

super smash bros series was meant to be a party game, but we the people make it a fighting game, brawl is the one that stand the most as a party game an even so the game still a fighting game, melee on the other hand, is the superior fighting game, a melee player can react in mili seconds, much faster than the mayority of player in other fighting games, melee is where amazing happens, we dont need a comeback mechanicn we make comeback happen, we dont need stample combos an bnb, we develop combos during the fight, melee is a basically the definition of combat take to the next step, its simply evolution.

It's officially a party game. That much I'll admit but if one were to follow all the tourney rules set for the game then it's like any other fighting game out there.

With the exception of Brawl... f*cking hate that game.

Hardcore melee elitist here.

People who can't at least SHFFL or don't know what it is shouldn't even weigh in on this subject.

It is, man!

Super Mario 64 is a beat em up, he kicks and punch and even smash them!

Um, yes.

Yes it is.

I don't think it matters whether or not something was "meant" to be competitive.

If we look at developer intent in determining how legitimate something is, we may as well ban combos since they were never intended in the first place.

Developer intent does not matter. What the players do to the game is what determines everything.

And to anyone that thinks Smash is easy because uh, I dunno, it looks kiddy or something (even though I think Street Fighter looks pretty kiddy with the ridiculous physiques and constant hardcore posturing. You need bright colors for something to look kiddy, doncha know.) and the controls are simple, I'll say this-

Go win a couple of major Smash tournaments. Melee or Brawl. Brawl would be fine, since it's so slow and "scrubby" that anyone can play it, right?

Smash is so easy that it should be free money, right?

Nice video, at any rate. It was Good Stuff.

I say if people want to play Smash Bros competitively, then let them. Doesn't matter if it's a "fighting game" or not. People play it competitively and enjoy, so what's the problem?

It's not my cup of tea, so I don't play it, but I'm not gonna hate on someone else for it.

You're not doing anyone any good by bashing someone else's game except making yourself look like an @ss.

This video hit the nail on the head.

SB64 and Melee were definitely legit fighting games. With Brawl, however, it's like Nintendo tried everything in their power to take the "fighting game" out of Smash Bros.

It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Why would they drastically change a series that people loved so much and sold so well? I can guarantee that a ton of people who picked up Wiis at launch did so mostly in anticipation of the new Smash Bros. (and Twilight Princess(both of which turned out to be disappointments)).

Anyway, I would say that all three of the Smash Bros games are fighting games simply because there is no better classification. It may not be a traditional fighting game with health bars, but it's got 2(+) players going at it and FIGHTING one another. They are FIGHTING games....even if Brawl was terrible, even it is still a fighter.

What the hell are people talking about? Brawl is the same damn formula. Hell I think it's even more balanced than Melee since it has less glitches. If HE is posting "Sony Smash Bros." news, that means they consider it a fighter. It's only fair to give Smash Bros. the same treatment.

Oops I meant EH

Boogityboy
Actually there's a few differences in what Sony's doing as they've A. got alot more variety and complexity to the moves from everything that's been shown (as you're not relying on normal moves for kills) and B.the games being made with a more competitive mindset. C.The full game and all of it's systems has yet to be explored just one mode so to say the whole game's like smash is kinda overblown generalization .

People take this junk too seriously. If you're basically fighting another character, it's a freakin fighter. Whether or not it should be taken seriously depends on the depth & complexity of strategy involved along with the overall polish and balance of the game. All the butthurt melee diehards need to accept that brawl is a legit fighter. It may be a crappy one, but it's still legit.

Ugh. Smash can be both a hardcore fighter, and a party game. Even Brawl can be hardcore. It just depends on the person you're talking to. Everyone has their own opinions.

-I see smash as a party game as in order to make it a competitive you must remove/restrict elements of the core game(items,# of ledge grabs & some stages) in order to make it tournament viable

-With that said Playstation All Stars wouldn't need banning of items, maps and etc to make it tournament viable from what we've seen so far, as unlike Smash you can only die from an enemy super attack. As well as there's no item during the hands on event was said to be game breaking or random on the level of a Smash or Poke ball. Nor is there level with instant death traps as there's only one thing that can possibly kill you.

wow i didn't know SSB had all that in it.
O.O

it looks like it has fightinggameyness to me

If you dont understand the difference between Melee and Brawl your opinion is invalid.

@4
Seriously man I dont think you even understand melee. Characters play and move differently. There's stuff like Pillaring with falco, ken combo with marth, and waveshine with fox. I seriously doubt its easier to master melee characters then other fighters. I played melee competitively as my first fighter and it is way harder to beat a good player in then say street fighter 4 where you can do well with basic fundamentals.

And so the smash brother debate continues. I still say it's a fighter. I am curious as to why others don't find them to be fighters. Tell me how melee isn't a fighting game. Because you have to fall off the level to win?

Also "wombo combo"

@29: yeah, i'm a bit confused as to why some commenters on this post don't understand the difference, Kage explained it pretty well at the end.

It's no more of a competitive fighting game than PowerStone (1&2).

Smash isn't a fighter, and it isn't a party game. it is both.

Sakurai made the game with items, he made the game with dangerous stage hazards, the thing is in order to make it a full on fighter even Smash FGC players agree you got to LIMIT the game artificially, There is no other game In FGC history that I can think of where you have to limit a lot of aspects of the game to make it viable for Tourney play...

Yes, it is a fighting game. When you cut out the BS from people that don't want it to be a fighting game, its clear that it's a fighting game. Why is this even a thing?

@36
Every person that has actually played the game says the gameplay is unique. It's also been said that if you play the game like you play Smash you'll lose free. I get that when you watch a video that's what it looks like, and that's what people are doing, but its wrong. If more people would actually read the details of the game instead of watching videos they'd understand that. Which that in itself is dumb because I fail to see how completely ripping off Smash would be a bad thing.

I love the bias here LOL. All these people here defending All-Stars are a bunch of playslaves Sony fanboys, why? SIMPLE, they're hyped for this crap, yet don't give a chance to established unpopular games like KOF XIII or VF5. Bunch of hypocrites.

Jandro, I played KOF13, it's story is strange conclusion to the Ash crimson storyline, I dled VF5 online edition...
SUCK THESE DEKU NUTS I GOT SPIRITAL STONES!!

Now got any other foregone conclusions to say?

Glasstop, the thing is it took em two years on a game no one outside that community will care to look into.

You asked me to come at you I did now what...

I know what makes a fighting game a fighting...but what makes a party game a party game? and what are other Party games besides Mario Party, because Mario Party is nothing like Super Smash Bros

I don't play Mario Party (which is broad game based filled with mini game missions) And I don't really play Super Smash Bros. But I thought it was obvious this was some type of fighting game..... Why is that hard to comprehend? why is this controversal? It's a type of Fighter people...believe it

Smash is everything the developers of SFIV and SFXT wish they could be...

a fun fighter that appeals to a more mainstream crowd....

If Brawl is a REAL fighting game that should be taken seriously, then so should Powerstone. It was never meant to be a serious game, it was meant for fun and for casuals. It still IS meant for fun and casuals. Is it a good game? Yes, it's as fun as hell. Grab 3 other people and you can play all night having the highlight of your week. Should it be at EVO and other major tournament and ultimately be taken as seriously as SFIV, UMVC3, KOFXIII, Skullgirls, and other popular fighting games that reign today? Hell no.

@45

Then All-Stars shouldn't be either, correct me if I am wrong, but I think they said you can only "die" at the hand of a "supper"? That in itself is completely stupid.

I got out of this Smash Community due to the new direction of the Sequel(Brawl)
with so many people choosing sides on Melee & Brawl, I simply chose the Easier game rather than the 2 year Tournament Experience I had with Melee

1st Brawl Tournament, 2nd Place
2nd Brawl Tournament, 1st Place
3rd Brawl Tournament, 1st Place
4th Brawl Tournament, 1st Place
5th Brawl Tournament, 1st Place
6th Brawl Tournament, 1st Place
finally realizing that Brawl Sucks ASS,that I was in denial that Brawl was the $#!T, I quit after the 7th tournament, I didn't place at all...
moved onto the Street Fighter Community

I do think that Smash Bros is a Fighter(Beat em' UP)
but the Sequel's flaws is what ruined it for me

I know you guys want it to be like Melee, but here's the BIG issue.

Because Nintendo won't acknowledge it as a fighter, they'll never care for it's balance. It's one HUGE factor in fighting games is balance so all characters have their own strengths and weaknesses (except joke characters like Dan before SF4). That's why they include items and luck as a main part of the game. It'll be nothing more than a party game with fighting elements. And honestly, because of this I see it that way too.

You know how Melee had wavedashing? Brawl did their best to get rid of that with tripping. Why? because the creators are trying to make it casual-gaming friendly so people just have fun and not rely so much on skills.

I'm not saying it's bad to say it's a fighting game, but just because it has the fighting game elements, doesn't make it a fighting game. Look at the Legend of Zelda series. It's an action-adventure game, but do people call it a puzzle game because it has a lot of puzzle elements in it? Not really.

I dunno, that's just my opinion on this. I respect other people's opinion on considering it a fighter. I just don't see Nintendo games like that since they never really considered for competitive games and go more for casuals.

@47
That's exactly what happened to me!!
I'm not to pissed about it anymore since smash is what got me into the FGC. Street Fighter 4, Umvc3, Kofxiii, 3s, and a few others like SG would have been the last games I played if i never played melee.

if so then MVC3 shouldnt be and 1/2 of SFxT shouldnt be either, because they are easy to play easy to copy vids off youtube and repeat what you see in every fight

because remmeber if one touch = defeat then the game is really easy or really broken

@46
Yeah, I'm looking at All-stars with the same viewpoint. As much as they want it to be, All-stars won't be a serious game either.
I do owe Brawl one thing, though. When I saw the trailer for SFIV (Vanilla) I thought "Hey, I'm pretty good at brawl, I'm pretty sure my skills will carry over!" And from there, I got into SFIV and the entire fighting game community. Of course, no skills carried over whatsoever.

@50
"It's easy to copy stuff from youtube and repeat, therefore, it's just as much as a fighter than anything else.
One hit = auto-kill makes the game really easy or broken."

I'm not really following your logic here on the matter here.

Gpop- Well, as long as Nintendo keeps such a low security on their systems, hacking and modding are always an option.

In the end though I think the series rightfully is a fighting game with optional random elements available. Touhou Hisoutensoku is no less of a fighter because of disruptive weather randomly changing. Just because the random elements are available for use does not mean they have to be in place.

The Zelda series is not the best comparison because Puzzles aren't the primary aspect of the game. The goal of Smash Bros. is first and foremost to fight your opponent (Or at the least, hit them once and run away for 8 minutes).

Also wtf is an "action" game? Don't most games have action in them? I mean like, not simulators or Mahjong games I guess, but it's such an absurdly vague definition.

To everyone here who's saying smash is a fighter no matter what
Why not just make a Doujin game with Project M and make your own damn game? instead of latching on to Smash as a fighter (especially as the creators are going further and further away from what you like about it as a series) make your own damn game. that's what Touhou's creators did they made their own verison of the bullet hell genre mixing in fighting game elements into what Touhou is today.

GOLDEN SUN!!!!!!! :] Love the music in that game! With that outta the way, I love Melee, and Brawl. That was my high school right there, and I'm proud of it. By the way, I hope either Isaac or Felix are in the new SSB.

@52

Well a hit confirm that leads into a 100% IS BROKEN. Infinites and 100% combos are game breaking. They're just stupid. VF is considered the most balanced and technical fighter out there, and guess what? It doesn't have infinites or 100% combos. Big reason why it's considered the best.

Jandro I've never heard that one before, I just heard it was one of the first of it's kind

LOL you say you know and play unpopular fighters, yet never heard that VF is considered the most balanced and technical fighter out there? Just shows you probably lied when you tried to prove me wrong in your comment saying you've actually "played" these games.

Are people normally this big of ass****s here?

iK only when you are...

Jandro, no I meant "it's considered the best" I've never heard it called the best I've heard it called very well balanced and extremely techincal but never "THE BEST" as balance and techinal fighting=/= the best in everyones opinion just people who are looking for that.

Also just because I haven't read up on a game doesn't mean I don't enjoy it.

or that I never played and that I'm just lying, it's called simply I don't know the same people you do, or I don't care to read up and find out who calls it "the best"

I consider the Smash Bros series a "party fighter" for its unique characteristics. It is not a pure fighter (as you can see in tournament settings) and should not be traited as one.

I know the Smash Bros community will kill me, but if Nintendo doesn't care for the series seriously to make it a true fighter, why are you insisting on it?

Don't get me wrong. I love every Smash Bros, but Brawl had writed all over itself "I'm not a true fighter", and seriously that the way everyone else took that move.

@4

so tekken isn't a fighter now too?

Hayabusa that's what i've been saying man, that or they should make their own game using Project M.

You gotta love how, in order to NOT consider Smash Bros. a fighting game, people have to come up with NEW genres to put it in. Then, they have to come up with some George Lucas grade BS to defend their reasoning. It's like watching people try to separate wolves and bulldogs into different Biological Families.

Anyway, once Gamers and Nintendo accept the reality that Smash IS a competitive fighting game, and quit mutating it based on their personal views, then Smash will go back to being a good game again.

lol this debate is pretty timeless. we fight as well get UFC and the Fight Night games into the fgc since those would be "fighters" as much as smash

@72 Well Hooligan, those ARE fighting games. If you can build scenes around those games, what is there to stop you from holding tournaments? Didn't WNF have WWE All Stars tournaments for a little while too?

Even Frankie from Fighter's Gen admitted to me that the real reason he didn't feature Smash on his site, was because he just didn't want to make pages for characters like Pikachu and Yoshi. Makes sense to me. He's already got a ton of stuff on there anyway.

melee. captain falcon. the knee.

Its a party fighter

Does this mean EventHubs will start covering Smash Bros. News?

eh i thought eventhubs covered fighting games only?

if smash is a fighting game simply because you have "multiple characters" and "they fight" then maybe team fortress can be considered a fighting game too?

maybe diablo 2 is a fighting game?

@76

They'd better since they are covering All-Star news, if not it just shows their bias for Sony.

Oh and Ex_Ein

Being the most balanced and technical means it's the closest to being a "perfect" fighting game which actually means it's the best. Don't confuse popularity, just cause something is more popular doesn't mean it's the best. Most of the popular stuff out there is complete crap. *cough* MvC2 *cough*

Looks like an Mario style of game to me.

short answer: "NO"

long answer: "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"

Smash64 and Melee are non-traditional fighting games. Legit, deep and skill-requiring games.

Can't say the same for "Brawl", a 'game' in which you trip to the ground for no apparent reason.

Jandro83
The word you used is "BEST" not "prefect".
As what is the "best" is subjective in terms of "The best fighting game" me personally I don't see just because it's balanced and techinal it's the best It's got to have that fun factor and it's got to appeal to the person, VF doesn't appeal to me because of how realistic it sets itself. The "Best" is subjective to what you want out of a fighter and MVC2 is popular for a reason it's because it's got the hype factor VF never carries and is open to a wide verity of people, by having it uber balanced and the most techinal fighter a new player CAN'T get into the pro scene unless a pro teachs them or they find something pros haven't explored that pros don't know how to trump yet.