EventHubs asks: How would you make fighting games more accessible to the masses?

What Persona 4 Arena did is quite possibly the best thing they could've done to make it accessible.

Julito is right, Persona 4 by far is a game that both newcomers and pros can play.

But I think if you get fighting games coverage and air time on Xbox 360's area for example like tips and tricks on how to do combos and tech, that would be one heck of a way to make people who never were into fighting games be like "WOW, I want to learn how to do that!"

Simple, better marketing to get the brand out there and make a training mode that can show EVERY ASPECT OF THE GAME, including zoning footsies, safe jumps etc. Also, Capcom should emphasize the FGC

Fighting games also need netcode thats as close to perfect as possible

The problem with fighters is that new players dont have ANY clue what they should be doing, they just play random, and then they get owned, and go back to playing halo or COD.

More in depth tutorials that teach mechanics(skullgirls) as opposed to just learning a few combos. And better story modes(mk9) that encourage newbies to keep playing when they get tired of training mode or getting beat up by more experienced players.

The things they do currently to allow new players to get the hang of the game are the exact thigns that hard core players shun and believe ruin the game. Not a criticism but an observation.

Take Persona 4 for instance. It's beautiful and it's based on an awesome franchise. That being said, I ended up trading it in very quickly. There was always this sense there that ANYbody could pull off this awesome combo I just did. There was the sense there that some DP moves (Kanji) were just too catered to new players.

Was that true or not? Not really the point. The point is, the more of these mechanics that exist, the more hardcore players feel it's been watered down

yeah a story mode is necessary for casual players. I think a good idea for SF5 would be to have a big story mode that actually explains the entire SF story in a coherent way, while allowing the player to play every character.

I dont want to unlock stuff from the story mode, because chances are, I wont even play it. But, casuals definitely will play the story mode.

#1 agreed. although the rest of the concept of the game is whack. If we want other gamers appreciate the fighting games, I would suggest that devs should put an option whether or not tips and suggestions pop up during gameplay. If we are talking about casual gamers that goes straight to versus or arcade mode, then after character selection, there should be an option to turn on and off the suggestion boxes during fight. the box should contain readable material but not too big to the point that you can't see what's going on, or at least make it transparent. of course the option to do this can be turned off forever in option menu of the game.

"There was always this sense there that ANYbody could pull off this awesome combo I just did."

And then you look at Marvel...

The most popular competitive games are team-based, like Team Fortress, Counterstrike, and League of Legend. I think this is because it's less intimidating to compete as a team than alone. For example, if you got whupped in Street Fighter, you have no one to blame but yourself (or your stick if you're DSP). In team games, you can shift some of the blame onto your teammates, which makes it easier to swallow losses. Team games also gives new players a chance to taste victory by randomly teaming them up with stronger players.

As long as fighting games are one-on-one, they will never be as popular as the team-based scrubby games like League of Legends.

I think Mortal Kombat 9's sales prove how much a good story mode can do for a fighting game, at least from a business perspective. That game sold 3 million copies. Obviously wasn't -just- for the story mode alone that people picked it up, but it definitely helped a lot.

and i don't think the rest of this guys understands the question posted. we are trying to pull in more players to appreciate fighting games, not turn them to pro instantly. it's the player's choice if he/she wants to be one. a good marketing, and a simple tutorial should be focused on. :)

Tbh sites like IGN, gamespot a many other 'top' sites review fighting games badly, they either get someone with no experience in them or a person who last game was tekken 3.

Does everyone ignore fight lab or something? because that is the best tool so far to help beginners. Community events, shows like comicon, eurogamer all can help with newcomers but usually the 'pros' hog all the machines with there mates and dont let anybody get a turn.

games need like street fighter need more indepth tutorials in game, so many things not explained, from terminology to others same with tekken

Last paragraph: that's not how you use "Begs the question"!

Make an interactive tutorial
Protecting against jump-in's
Protecting against cross-ups
Teach some spacing (Ryu's fireball for example... have the computer jump in and attack if you're too close or block if you're too far. You only pass if you fireball at the right distance)
Whiff punishing
Game specific mechanics or techniques
Hit box and frame explanations

Character specific stuff
Important normal attacks
Explain what specials are for
During combo challenges have the combination's buttons play out like in Tekken. Give us slow mode too so we can see exactly when we're supposed to press buttons

Training room
Be able to give the character simultaneous commands
- This will allow for easier frame trap practice
- Setting conditions for certain commands will help let you practice OSing and finding out what move beats what
Frame data. It's just plain easier if they give it to us. Why not?
Hitboxes. Same as above

That's some of the stuff I can think of

Asking the choir why people should believe in god?

we should probably reach out to gamers who are on the fence about fighting games in the first place.

Dive kicks 2 button approach can probably break in allot of people. "Man this game with 2 buttons is fun, ...now what can i do with 6?"

A better breakdown of the mechanics. Some (like myself) have been long time fighting game fans and those they play the game for fun have no clue what FADC,"footise", frame -/+, resets, etc. means and I can totally understand if they look at that and think I will never understand that, who has the time.

I enjoy SSF AE but to be totally honest I am down right bad at the game. I have tried many of time to copy and paste what the pros do and fail. But it will never take the fun out of just playing the game. But lately I have had tried to better myself at it with contacting "pros" and getting their take and how I can apply what they do in a session.

I think possiably adding some sort of "How to" could be invloved in the game. (like how does Online Tony gets a reset from a 23 hit combo sort of thing) But I guess thats where youtube/CC would come into play. That's how I see it, but it could be different from player to player. :)

I think a real tutorial is by far the most important thing. By "real" I mean a tutorial, which covers - not necessarily in depth - some rather "advanced" stuff, like safe jumps, frame traps und frama data (something like Ryan Heart did for DOA5); that also leads us to the implementing of a "real" training room.

No offence, not that I could care. BUT FUC- those morons complaining about Tekken Tag 2 NOT helping new players. Absolute bull! There is a 5 part chapter/story in which you make your own COMBOT.
It TEACHES you how to: Counter side stepping with certain moves, how to tag, what moves are quick to attack with on block (what are unsafe), high - low and mid attacks, what parrying is, how to side step and run, reacting to high-low mixups. It's the ONLY game I know that has ever gone indepth on a new fighting game (Along with BlazBlue). Stupid dumb reviewers.

With that out of the way, stop adding BS to games. Fighting Games have ALWAYS had that learning curve. If you find fighting games too hard then making them accessible is good, but then there's taking there's p*ss. The more Capcom (especially) cater to uneducated no0bs the worse the games get.

SFxT is a perfect a game flawed in every area. Yes DLC sucks and the game was a snooze fest. But one of the biggest points about why the game was bad (for me) was how braindead and pathetic the game was. The game so insanely basic.
They added:
Gems - I can do more damage with red gems AND take less damage with yellow gems meaning I can be more reckless.
Assist Gems - Why would I want to block if the game does it for me?
Pandora - I could have INFINITE meter and make a comeback
Auto combos - You press 2 buttons and the game PLAYS FOR YOU! It does a 4-5 hit combo for you into launch!
Dial combos - LMHH(Launch) LMH Super. What's the point of having a variety of characters IF they all have that same combo. Where's the diversity with the roster!?

SFxT was one of the biggest insults and what happened with the results? Capcom suckin on the teet of the no0bs and it didn't sell well. Not a single 'outside fighting game player' picked up the game or cared, AND in return you alienated what could've been a fantastic game. I've been on KoFXIII since April and that game is respectable! It's what fighting games should be! Hard but manageable with no gimmicky add-ons. I can't recommend KoFXIII enough if you want a game that caters to the last 25 years of fighting games.

Capcom need to stop that BS about catering to the masses, because we'll end up with games like MvC3. Alienates the MvC2 players, adds generic combos, adds x-factor, simple mode and combos with high damage output. I honestly think that if we ever get Darkstalkers you shouldn't be happy because it's going to have those gimmicks. Imagine if in Gears of War they added a perk to let you aim for you as a newcomer. Or an attachment Burnout that gives you infinite boost to keep up with other players? No. It's wrong and if those people don't want to put in the time, then that's their fault for being lazy and uneducated because of their attitude the actual FGC suffer with the quality of games.

TL;DR We don't need any thing to appeal the masses. Keep them the way thet are and make FORCE the casuals to get in line like everyone else. If you're new to fighting games there is no excuse for being bad with YouTube and forums.

/Rant over PogChamp

The key is NOT to casualize the game itself, it's showing the player how to approach the game properly.

Tutorials on how to tech throw (+gameplay trials), focos or whatever, super, ultra, combos etc
call it beginner mode, but make it fun.

as #9 says if you can play with your friends it will encourage them to play more. my friend who never played fightinggames loved to play mortal kombat with me because we could team up.

something i want for sf4 to implement is a kof-isch style of team play.
the opponent beats you but the damage you did will remain for the next player to work on.

i would play that gamemode for days!

The first thing that I want to make sure for the best in fighting games is their online connectivity. It's got to be good enough, that it's almost like you're playing offline. Take Blazblue and SCV for example. Sure they lag in some parts, but during the matches, most of it will just be pure gameplay.

If I also had to make a fighting game, I would make sure at first there isn't any bugs for people to complain about. Also tutorials in fighting games should be nice and thorough, just like Skullgirls. Talk about the character they're using and give them their pros and cons.

For practice mode, I would definitely like a frame system to be brought in, like from VF5, so that people know certain moves from a character are safe in close range or spacing. I can definitely see people that really want to learn a character they want learn use for competitive play and if they are satisfied by the moves that they have, then I'm sure they would main them.

I'm not dissing any of the fighting games, because they are unique in their own ways like Capcom Fighting Jam. Even though the game didn't become a success after the cancellation of Capcom Fighting All-Stars, it still gave me a heart to love the characters in the game which was Ingrid. The meter in the game were separate from the different series of games, like Karin for example, she had the X-ism meter from SF Alpha series, because that was the game she first appeared in, which I find pretty good and fun.

better tutorials in game

Here's the thing about the legendary SF2, it was probably THE game that took the least amount of time to have awesome matches and mindgames that leave you breathless with an opponent.

However if you try to play it now HDR on PSN or Live you'll get your ass kicked. But if it was two beginners, it still looked and definitely felt as exhilarating as two veterans duking it out with just a few basics and understandings under your belt.

I think fighters don't need to be easier I think that the best way to teach new players is to put a story mode that teaches you how to play,like fight lab was a good start

I would say other games should look at skullgirls, that game had a really solid tutorial mode.

For training mode, I'd have built in frame data that has the character glow green when he does a safe move and red until the unsafe frames of his move are done being executed. This will quickly teach players what not to throw out at certain moments.

Have comprehensive character tutorials on the disc, moveslist are an insufficient learning tool. This is a spectacularly, great example of what should be ON THE DISC, READY TO GO: http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2012/de...

A moves list without understanding the characters gameplan(s)(as ultrachen tv puts it) is like teaching someone words, but not teaching them how to form sentences.

Yet another vote for better tutorials. Still waiting for a game that explains in a clear way how frames (startup, recovery, invulnerable, active) work since this is non-obvious to casual players but necessary for even basic play. Basic concepts like footsies, zoning, punishes, chains and cancels also need to be explained. If people knew this stuff, there'd be a lot less casual frustration.

Another vote for robust single player content: story mode, unlocks, modes, costume options, etc. No interest to me but it helps review scores and sells games.

Also visuals/art style that appeal to a Western audience.

Better online.

That said, fighting games are a skill genre. You can try forever and still not be very good. That's an anti-mainstream philosophy, since most gamers really don't want to be challenged or have to delay gratification or (worst of all) fail even when they try their best.

What you need to do is stop trying to gear fighting games towards NEW gamers.

You are killing the entire tutelage and experience in what it means to play a fighting game and truly enjoy it.

In fact they need to stop making games the way they do all together.

Video games just aren't difficult anymore as a whole.

My older brother was the Street Fighter master...but he taught me everything he knew..and before you knew it I was able to go toe to toe with the grandmaster and I learned to LOVE the game.

No one wants to be good at anything and learn these days.

That's all I gotta say.

Humans really suck now.

It's not about catering to the hardcore, the FGC will adapt (example: UMVC3). We need to make sure we have a GROWING scene, that will get us more and fresher games to choose from instead of the same numbered sequels over and over again with no real work put into them (see: Capcom Fighting Evolution) If you alienate new blood with cries of "It waters the game down" you're just going down the road of extinction. Personally, I want the FGC and the games themselves to thrive. As "simple" as a lot of hardcore vet's complain MvC3 is, it still requires much more coordination and effort than pointing a gun in FPS or clicking on a screen in LoL.

In to the actual point, about how we get through that barrier, these games need to make a point to include some sort of story/campaign for the player, with built in tutorials to "level up" skills. An engaging single player experience goes a LONG way towards pushing the multiplayer community forwards. I would LOVE to see Capcom give me more story than a rival fight and the two scenes with text after an Arcade clear. I haven't seen them do that since Tech Romancer.

They already have comeback mechanics, a somewhat decent netcode, variety in rosters (at least in most games), but you know what made a game like smash bros so popular that other games did not made? Three things, the fact that is a crossover, the completely unnecessary extra content (trophies, stickers homerun contest etc...) and a story mode with a story that might or might not make sense, but will have cool cutscenes to make up for it. Yeah, casuals want either that, or blood with extreme patriotism, like COD.

@29
Please, you say that as if though humans have ever been different.

Where do you suggest I find a master for some of us to learn from? I learned to play the hard way. Getting a good tutorial would have help make me a better player faster. All they do is close some of the skill gap so that older players have to worry about up and coming players. They just help raise the level of competition by that much

Well personally I would do what CVS2 did and implement a Groove like system for combat. Want a simplistic four button system or a 6 button system? A defensive style or offensive? CVS2 had the right idea in my opinion..... Except everyone spammed A Groove.... But yea make settings for pros and rookies (Note how I use the term Rookie instead of Scrub.... Just saying a little manners wouldn't kill. Different topic though.)

Single Player: Long and fulfilling story modes for each character, Mission modes and unlockable of all kinds to encourage people to play the single players modes

Multi Player: I really don't believe that fighters need to improve on this but if i would do anything it would be making Co-Op a big thing offline and online.

Training modes: Tutorials ranging from concepts as small and teaching how to punch and kick to things as complicated as frame data and extended combos.

Also: if you want fighting games to grow in an esports sense, throw money at it and surround it with professionalism and glamour. Maybe people will disagree, but I don't think LoL is a very good game. Yet it's ridiculously popular, and one reason that's so is because of the esports personalities, the dreams of "if I get really good, I could make tons of money!" and so on.

In fewer words, a mainstream audience will be attracted even to mediocre crap if you surround it with enough spectacle.

Why can't people just read the instruction manual, actually play the game and figure out stuff on their own? All the fun from fighting games comes from learning the game at your own pace and developing your own strategies and fighting styles.

You can keep dumbing down a game, but people STILL complain that the tutorial modes and whatnot are still not helpful enough.

You can play online and try to find out what works and what not works, but soon as you play offline, you'll quickly find out what you do online doesn't always work as well.

Fighting Games are originally arcade games, not online games, they aren't going to hold your hand.

Casual gamers just want a chance of competing fairly. They don't want complicated tutorials - if they did they'd be researching strategies online. They want to be able to jump straight in and mash buttons and not get destroyed. The current local play handicaps don't cut it. No one wants to win because their opponent only had 25% health even though they dominated the entire match. Neither do they want the game to play for them by automatically blocking and performing combos. It's not much fun for the experienced player either. The answer is to include most creative handicaps which put players on the same level while ensuring the experienced player gets something out of it. For example, by disabling specials - limits the damage output of the experienced player while training them to use their normals more effectively. Disabling jumping forward - makes easy damage from jump-ins impossible and forces the experienced player to learn other ways to get in. Capcom, if you're listening, put these in the next SSF4 patch so I can enjoy playing local matches against a wider variety of people!

Copy COD BLACK OPS2 and make a zombie like or survival mode. Zombie mode for cod, hold up about 70% of its casual gamers. You'll be lying if someone you know who play black ops doesnt ask you about zombie. So yes, that mode had a big part in their 1 billion copy sold. #trufact

What no one has mentioned yet is the most obvious thing: Community. The FGC can at times be great(charity events), and at other times be horrible (Aris scandal). Put more people into the community whose jobs are to draw in new players, help them get a leg up and enjoy the game.

As an example, I used to play a lot of MOBAs, and one reason why LoL and Dota2 are eating HON's lunch isn't because they're "better" or "more competitive" games... it's because the communities in the former don't suck. S2 did so much that was right with HON and yet failed at the absoulte most basic thing -- the fostering of a welcoming community.

Game developers need to learn from that; the stronger and more welcoming the community, the more a game will grow and be accessible to people who are new to the scene.

Not by making the games simpler but by making the game easier for people to understand why they aren't simple games.

Chess was never made easier, and everyone knows chess isn't an easy game. That doesn't discourage people from picking it up and playing it even at very very young ages. Fighting games are simple in its most minute aspects, much like chess its fairly simple to say; Ok your pawns move this way, the bishop can move along these lines and on this color. In that way they know the way the pieces move, but the overall game plan of a match involved in chess we all know is way more in depth. Fighting games naturally have just a deeper sense of strategy that the general public needs to pick up on and understand. There will always be people who just say we are "mashing", but hell even a game like UMVC3 has developed into a strategy game as far off and impossible as that might have seemed from its Vanilla release. I think until that aspect changes where the general public just see it as a mashing game and don't have sense to know how much of an in depth game these games can be to play, there isn't much that can be done. Bringing the game with commentary to a larger audience is probably, as weird as it sounds, the only thing I can possibly think of. At least there they are being informed of why and what is going on. We can have "in game tutorials" all day and make them longer and more in depth, but if they don't see a reason why that tutorial is necessary to begin with they are just going to put the game in go to arcade or VS and play a friend and put it on the back shelf and hop on BLOPS all day long, because at least in that game you'd have to be a marsupial to not know directly what you're supposed to be doing and why you're doing it. Hope it changes.

Companies need to market better. People know who Ryu is but i doubt they know shoryu-FADC-ultra 1. I dont even like SF but i love fighters.
Enhance what Skullgirls did too a TTT2 fight lab level then combine that with what Blazblue did and now that player has a in-game source for all the basics he/she needs to understand certain tactics and how to go about their main character. only reason why i even felt confident enough to increase the difficulty in arcade mode on blazblue.

Also there should be some demos. I mean how can i get someone to play if i have to be able to visit them with my copy. Thats ridiculous. SNK had it righ with 13.

Tutorials need to have audio and visuals rather than strictly text. No one wants to sit there and read in a fighting game.

i agree with # 14 and 19 you need to have an in-depth training mode to teach new-players how to approach the game properly and teach some hidden stuff that could be effective not all of them

# 18 makes a good point, players need to stop whining and need to put the time into the game, ttt2 did have some of the best options for training i don't get where people are getting all this negativity coming form, lastly another point # 18 stated is that fighting game"s need that learning aspect that makes you feel great for putting the time into the game, if they putt every single element of the game of the game in the beginning it would take the fun out of fighting games.

The biggest thing would have to be revamping the training room and ensuring that a Mortal Kombat like storymode existed- that is huge.

I love training rooms and spend endless hours in them practising all sorts of vortex setups and learning frame data, but when I started playing SF4 for the first time [ my first real fighting game] I hated it- no fun, didn't get to beat people up because the cpu didn't die, and nothing happened. New, casual players don't see what a training room is capable of, and even if they do, there's no interest behind it- a way to promote the effectiveness of the training room and give guides towards certain playstyles and such would definitely be a step in the right direction.

one thing i liked about Skullgirls was the tutorials, in that they had AI that would do different things (i.e. doing different block-strings), and the game gave you a reward for doing it correctly 3 times in a row.

but it can be taken further. with the AI already made, simply make modes for players to train even further for things like punishing unsafe blockstrings, whiff punishing, hitconfirming, but with the idea of being used for longer periods of training. the SG tutorial doesn't take that long to do, but if you only practice it for a short period of time it doesn't stick with you. so maybe 10 times in a row, or 20, or 50. perhaps give incentives like alt colors or higher levels of these modes.

just a thought for casual players that want to improve their skills. these modes train you to not just do things randomly and give noobs a reason to block/not go stupid all the time.

there is no point in casualizing the game itself. Marvel 2, one of the most revered competitive games, but also one of the most enjoyable for casuals. I dont know why gaming companies are finding the need to put begginers and experienced players on equal ground, experienced players should always body beginners. Just make it easier for beginners to get at that level with more fleshed out tutorials.

Also, make sure even at the low level the game is somewhat fun, again, marvel 2. If people don't feel like they are doing anything, the game won't garner the attention to later be understood, like virtual fighter 5

I would do NOTHING to make a fighting game more accessible for newcomers.
Put in the time or get bodied, that's how it's supposed to be!

I don't think fighting games are really designed for mass appeal. It's really simple gameplay that gets old really quick for the casual gamer. For the player that delves depper into the intricasies of the game and starts to compete at a higher level, that's when fighting games become a completely different animal. The casual gamer just does not have the time or the patience to master all of what is necessary to become very good. This is the biggest the FGC is going to get in my opinion and I don't think there's anything the developers can do to change that. I would LOVE to be proven wrong though.

And when you guys are done with this, lets figure out how to make lengthy, intelligent books more accessible to Pre-School students.

Ah..... No!

The kids start in the kids section for a reason. Society and its intellectuals are not expected to act/exercise "dumb" to appease the uneducated who simply will not put in the WORK!

Someone above put it best. "Read the instruction manual."

Otherwise I'd always suggest having a great story mode. That's a win/win for every gamer.

I really like the tutorial in Skullgirls, but it wasn't very flashy or fun to do, it was just Text > Challenge > Repeat (kind of barebones). If somebody took that kind of tutorial and made it really fun for beginners and hardcore people alike, with better production value, then that would help a lot.

Also, I've said this before, but the control scheme in SF4Volt on iPhone (not the touchscreen itself, just the way the buttons worked) was really cool and fun and easy to use. Having 1 Punch Button and 1 Kick Button, like Virtua Fighter or Dead Or Alive, with other buttons for essential game mechanics, would be great as an easy mode in Street Fighter 5 or Darkstalkers 4 or whatever.

Finally, the 1 player mode from Mortal Kombat that others mentioned was pretty awesome, and was something lots of fighting games can learn from. It should start easier though, Mortal Kombat's story mode started pretty difficult.

Has anyone here played Dead Or Alive: Dimensions on the 3DS? That game combined the story mode and the tutorial into one single mode and it was absolutely perfect. It even made the game freeze before certain events to show the timing of different game mechanics like countering and throwing. That game was so amazing.

Yeah the Blazblue tutorial had nice voiced tutorials Rachel insulting you the whole way, pretty awesome xD.

@39 - There's no community more welcoming than the FGC.

Have you seriously seen LoL's community? I don't even play that trash, but that community is a joke.

#9 Porkstew wraps it up. didn't even need to go into that much detail.
by nature, fighting games will probably never even be nearly as popular as most other genres.

Ofcourse whenever this topic come up people talk about learn it the hard way stuff. Then wonder why there is this worry about FG dying or whatever. How was i supposed to learn links or the fact some moves are invuln. Why should the consumer take time to learn about such basic stuff when the developer doesn't even bother with it.

bewbs.

My opinion? More and better tutorial and mission modes. I haven't tried Skullgirls, but BlazBlue's works wonders, and then I say it could be even better. Because when a rookie plays, you get all these sorts of questions around the lines of "Just what am I doing wrong?". As long as the player is clueless about what is he supposed to do, that's one potential fighting game enthusiast less. It's not that the fighting game is hard to master, but that it's hard to get into in the first place! And there's no enjoyment in having a game you -cannot- play, even if you suck at it.

For example, some challenges in Marvel Vs. Capcom 3 could only be figured out either by having a strong Street Fighter background, or with Youtube, because you simply don't have any idea of what you're being asked to do.

And that is what I think is what keeps people away from fighting games. People rise the complaint that fighting games are hard to get into because they ARE hard to get into. Tutorials help, and should be made (and tested) with a rookie mindset in mind, and NOT for regular players with previous knowledge. And then we have missions to master a character. It would help enormously if after not getting it right after a few tries (not to make it too easy), they'd give out simple messages like "You're inputing the third command too slow", or "(...) too fast, it's not registering", or "Incorrect motion", or "Wait a bit before inputing the command or it won't connect". Anything that guides the player into doing it right, no matter how hard it is. Show the player a light at the end of the tunnel. Some people just don't have the time or patience to wait hours till they get plain lucky and guess it. And they shouldn't have to.

Short version: New players need guidance, not an easy mode.

I'd like to clarify my position,

Street Fighter 4 struck the perfect balance IMO.

Easy controls that made it possible for noob players to perform special moves like SRK or a Hadoken.

Meanwhile advanced players could still input the moves as they had in previous SF games.

Advanced/dedicated players would then use these "shortcuts" to perform advanced input buffering, charge buffering, etc etc etc.

The FA system could be used by anyone who can press two buttons. But had so many layers of depth that ppl are still finding new technology!

Easily accessible/Difficult to master was SF4's game plan. And it executed that plan like no other fighting game has since SF2! And no game has since!

X-Factor. Kappa

I know this might be asking a lot, but they need to make a separate in depth training mode for every character in the game. Every char has a different movelist or playstyle so they should really give newcomers the option to chose who they want to learn the ins and outs of.

What Skullgirls did, I think that game has a deep training mode.
A company should never do what P4A did. AAAA combos are bosh1t. I hate that kind of easy mode.
Marvel and SSF4 did a great work too, since at the beginning the game seems easy as hell and then I become harder if you want to try new stuffs.
Capcom should make a really good deep training for their game. A good training is the key for newcomers to get in. That helped me a lot when I started playing some FGs.

'I would do NOTHING to make a fighting game more accessible for newcomers.
Put in the time or get bodied, that's how it's supposed to be!'

You beat me to it! I totally agree if you haven't got game go and play mario bros or COD, back in the the days of 92 you either adapted or you were left to hang out, it was and should be that simple.

These lazy kids today want everything handed to them on a platter, nerf this, nerf that, dlc for this, dlc for that, utter nonesense! The rate at which we're going at you'll soon be able to FADC into an ultra by the tap of a single button and that will absolutely ruin the allure and charm of fighting games.

When I watch high level gaming (paticularly SF) I marvel at the hand eye coordination, the composure, the confidence and the dexterity to pull off some of the those difficult combos at such crucial moments in the matches they play, the joy of witnessing such high level play would be taken away if it all was reduced to the press of a single button, wouldn't it?

It's this simple, if it hasn't been done already that is, maybe an option should be available where you adjust your settings so you would face people of a certain calibre, ie time spent playing, battle points or maybe player points accrued, that way noobs wouldn't have their butts handed to them on a regular basis.
Other than that the games are just fine to me and should stay that way.

It boils down to this, if you want to be good, you have put in the hours, i'm not asking you to give up your day jobs but there simply isn't an easy road or a downloadable content to greatness! Another poster earlier was saying plinking and one frame links should be put in the tutorials which I believe is nonesense, it would probably scare off the noobs and besides if you want to get to the top you have to be willing to go that extra mile and if you won't, you don't and that's why they're casual players!

Put in the hours or GTFO!

It's tough, because fighting games are competitive in concept, so they're really only open to people that want to learn the games. Everyone enjoys a walk in the park, but a fighting game is like playing basketball in the park, which fewer people will be interested in doing anyway.

To open fighters up to a broader audience, I agree that a big focus should be to improve the 1-Player experience and Story Mode. I can think of a lot of games that frustrated me over the years, but I put up with them just to see what happened to the characters.

The problem with most fighters, is that the story is usually relegated to cut scenes with no real purpose. The dialogue tends to be stiff, and the characters don't really develop. If you don't like the characters at face value, odds are the story won't warm you up to them much either. Perhaps if losing a fight, getting a good score, or finishing with special moves in the game actually influenced the events of the story, people might be interested in seeing what happens. Heck, DBZ games pretty much market themselves on "what-if" scenarios like this. If those games were better to begin with, maybe they'd set a better example.

Anyway, that's enough out of me.

More Barfights by goooooooooootecks.

i think an online training mode would do alot to help the cause. i am a fan of ssf4ae. one thing i always said thats missing is a online training. why? because those more experienced can show the less experienced how to do things. i try to get some of my friends to play fighting games like myself so i think an online training mode would help.

outside of that, there is nothing else you can do to make fighting games more accessible. fighting games have always been hard to learn. those that take the time to learn will reap the rewards of their hard work and patience. i am one to say i try to learn everything about fighting games. i watch tutorials, read articles and practiced what i learn in the training room. if someone doesnt do the same to get better, its nothing else you can do for them. a story mode aint gonna help them learn. companies arent the blame anymore. tekken has did everything they could to make their latest game accessible. its only so much the companies can do to make these game accessible. its up to the consumer if they want to put in the work.

By ignoring all the post above and below this one...

Just continue to make different variations of Street fighter and Marvel vs. Capcom. Milk them as much as you can until Fighting games dry out and die for another decade. By then the fgc will stop being spoiled pansies and, once again, latch onto the first fight that climbs out of the pit we are digging ourselves in to begin with.

A game that doesn't have a movelist of 100 moves for every character is a good start

I love guilty gear a lot but having 2,3 frames frc window doesn't help either

Meaning don't make the game so f.... complicated

Fighting games will always be a niche genre just because it is what it is. Some people just don't have fun playing them and you're not going to change that no matter how hard you try to explain them or how easy you make them. Just like some people will never like fps's, rpg's, sims, sports (ick) or any other genre. It's not because they don't understand them or aren't good at them. It's because they're not fun.

But, Chumble, how do we MAKE them fun for those people?

Oh well that's simple. All we have to do is change what a fighting game is. Let's make a fighting game where you control a party and the combat is turn-based. We can make your chances for winning based on your party's stats and the more you play, the better your characters get. That'll bring in all the people that want to like fighting games, but can't because they're no good at them, or they don't want to practice combos or learn matchups or play mind games. Right?

So many people that play games these days have no attention span. They want to pick up a game for 10 minutes, then move on to something else. That's why stuff like Angry Birds gets as popular as it is. The price tag helps too I guess. There's no use in trying to please these people. These people have never saved a princess. They've never gotten all the emeralds. All they want to do is throw a virtual football around with their roommate until the next "of" game comes out so they can shoot the same zombies/aliens/nazis/terrorists they have been for the last ten years EXCEPT THIS TIME IT'S DIFFERENT. Goddangit am I tired of zombies.

I'm not saying developers should only cater to the hardcore crowd either. Try new stuff without fishing for a bigger audience or trying to get approval for every single little thing from the existing audience. Ask yourself what a fighting game is, and make that. If people agree with you, they'll play it. Fighting games are as awesome as they are now because of what they are. Now focus on showing us how awesome they will be.

I think the game should let you do what you want to do without the need of high execution.

For example, anti-airing is so damn difficult for a beginner. I remember that when I started playing I couldn't do the shoryuken motion, and even though I KNEW my opponent was gonna jump, I couldn't anti-air them, just because I lacked the execution for it. It was so frustrating, I almost quit the game for that reason.

So I'd say the game should help you to do what you want to do, without having to learn hard inputs or setups that require extremely precise timing. Games should be focused more on strategy and less on the execution aspects, that would make them way more fun and less frustrating.

I'm fine with fighting games being complicated, and I think there's nothing wrong with that. Not to mention that FGs are multiplayer games. Any good multiplayer game follows the rule "easy to learn and difficult to master"; it's not just a FG thing.

Also what's the point of trying to appeal to the masses? The point is money, and that's it. Making a casual-friendly game means dumbing down the gameplay and the mechanics, thus making the experience very shallow, and the skill ceiling very low. That is detrimental to the competitiveness of the scene. The lower the skill ceiling, the more difficult it gets to differentiate a good player from a bad player.

Fighting games represent the quintessence of competition. Heck, even the in-games storylines are about people participating in tournaments. I think that FGs should stay as competitive and as unforgiving as possible. If the lazy casuals can't handle the heat then they can still play Playstation All Stars.

edit; to the guy above that can't do the shoryuken motion: don't blame the game.

I think PA4 did a good job with the "one button combo." Also, I think 3D fighters are easier to spam moves than 2D fighters.
Idea - Better matchmaking.
At the end of the day, players need to have patience & a sense of dedication to get pass "the learning curve." Kobe didnt become Kobe overnight.

This is a very difficult question to answer... Right now, I can honestly say that Persona 4 Arena did the best job in making it as newbie-friendly as possible while still being a game that pros can play. I also have to say that the story mode in MK9 was phenomenal and fun to follow.

Persona 4, mash "a" to win technique. That's how you get fighting game of the year. lol but enough of me being salty. For accessibility, I think you just have to keep making your game visually appealing. No ones gonna play an ugly game.

Have to disagree with #57

Easy inputs are just plain brain-dead. I got so pissed off when I used to play SF4 when some scrub who didn't even know what he/she was doing just wiggled the stick a little and pressed HP, leading to a counter-hit 3-frame reversal which takes like 200 life off.
Capcom need to revert back to 3rd strike ways, no easy inputs, reversals which actually didn't have a stupid amount of invincibility on them, (teaches new players not to mash.) And also a system which was both fun, satisfying, and rewarding, (the parry system.) Although, I do have to agree with everyone who says include a tutorial in the game, because 3rd strike was a hard game to play.

Now I think Umvc3 in my opinion nailed it, in terms of accesibility for casuals, all the way to people taking the game seriously. The game features basic abc combos and easy to input supers ect while still maintining that level of execution and dedication to perform things like optimal combos etc. I believe this is why Umvc3 is preety huge at the moment and appeals to alot of different people, (Well atleast in the US anyway.)

3 steps:
---------------------------------------------
1) AVAILABILITY on MORE PLATFORMS
=More people trying them and playing them.

2)GAMEPLAY:
Encourage "easy hit confirm" system aspect of SFxT l-m-h "chain" combos+launcher chains make it very accessible, without losing depth for advanced play and tweaking.

3)KEEP IT SIMPLE - Try not to have too many complex game systems or rules(i.e. focus attacks, and FADC-FocusAttackDashCancel) and complex stick/pad motions. This is very offputting to new players.

This is how. He who listens shall succeed :)

Happy Holidays
-BlankaBeast

if you look at many of the classic nintendo or even capcom single-player games, their introductory levels are a piece of art. Game design leading the player through the mechanics,ensuring that they pass each obstacle with each new ability often without a single word spoken. Just watch an egoraptor sequelitis video to see what i mean.

Fighters are rooted in arcade games taking quarters away from you by brutally letting you lose until you trade cash for experience and start winning. Some console releases have tried to imnplement boring tutorial modes for newcomers, but they arent fun. Fighters often act like martial arts, and to an extent thats what they kinda feel like when learning. You practically need someone to teach you the techniques, execution, and "flow" of the engine and character.

But videogames are ways for the designer to actually communicate through carefully conceived levels and objectives. They need to go through more than just "what is a high/low/overhead, blocking, airdashing" and command stuff. They need to show when to use these moves, or examples in certain situations. The biggest reason for this is because I find a lot of beginner friends learning the techniques, but since they dont know when to put them to use, they can't see the awesome depth and mindgame fun of fighting games. That's what gets them hooked, not acting like each battle is a fight for desperate survival or a frustrating endeavor to land basic combos on a moving target.

Furthermore, I'd like fighters to do this for every character, briefly. Get an in-game primer on each character. I know there are many, but that's what gets people interested in variety. You can't just teach Ryu in every game, you gotta teach the Giefs and dhalsims of each game, their basic strategies and mechanics. You can have a trial forcing a guy to figure out how to land their first 360 SPD by jumping in, or you can go the extra mile by showing how you can buffer the move from a variety of situations. All it needs is a few examples like basic green hand buffer to SPD to get a newbie to start thinking. I'm just talking in Street fighter terms right now but this should go for all characters in all fighters.

Fighting games can't just rest on Arcade, Versus, and some bullcrap story mode. Spend the budget making some truly smart sparring situations with computers that get the player thinking and feeling smart. From execution to spacing and mixups, and make it funny or visually rewarding or stylized in some way to keep a smile on the players face before you body them in Versus.

@74

In other words, make it a shooter :D

WAIT I GOT IT! The best thing to do is INCORPORATE THE BUTTON MECHANICS OF SMASH BRO INTO A FIGHTING GAME!!!

You can't make a fighting game that appeals to the masses. Not even joking. It doesn't matter how much you try to teach people, because people aren't interested in learning.

Nothing, everything you need is there. Players need to jump in the deep end and play. Don't spend hours in training mode trying to execute drawn out combos; it's not fun and it's not worth it. Without situational awarness, understanding of special moves etc you'll find it difficult.Learn your chracters special moves go into VS mode against the computer and play. Use the plethora of online videos to help you and alter the VS mode difficulty has you get better. It won't take you that long to pick it up.

There really needs to be a casual mode and a hardcore mode similar to Call of Duty, but I'd better relate it to the environment fostered in Quake and UT back in the PC glory days.

Because competitive players used competitive mods on modded servers (OSP/CPMA and UTComp) this isolated the serious players from ever playing against the casual players. It didn't matter much of the casual players weren't strafe-jumping/dodge-jumping, or timing items, or even knew that these advance tactics existed. Those players who cared about opening up the deeper elements of the gameplay simply never interacted with the casual crowd and those in the casual crowd looking for a deeper experience would find the competitive scene through the magic of the interwebz.

If you take SFxT for example you could have a "Pandora" mode where you not only unlock gems, but you could also introduce a leveling up system of those gems. Something casual players would love but tournament players shun. Moreover you could enable quick combos in Casual, but disable them in Hardcore. Not only does this mean that you could freely remove the meter cost to using them in Casual, but this would simultaneously open up the more effective link combo option select abilities in Hardcore while removing those more effective options from ever impacting casual play.

Looking at Mortal Kombat (9) I feel like the hot-update system could have been used more effectively if there was a Casual and Hardcore online arena separation. Hardcore would almost ever receive a "hot-update", only seldom balance patches once or twice a year. As for the Casual arena you could roll out almost weekly changes. Not only could you test future balance adjustments for hardcore play, but you could also roll out "fun" weekend updates for casual players. for instance Quick Uppercut Recovery for a weekend event, or another event where you could super power the ninjas, but award double experience for players beating the ninjas with a non ninja player.

I could go on-and-on but tl;dr segregate casual from hardcore.

Fighting games need to go back to their roots. There is nothing more intimidating than a game completely saturated in sub-systems and team combinations. Deep and involved gameplay can still exist without making the game deliberately complicated. The genre should play smarter, not harder. It has all the visual flare and appeal, but the difficulty curb is a tad steep. Now I know many don't agree that the Smash bros. series is not a true fighter but it's a simple, competitive game, with much mass appeal. In a nutshell, the genre could stand to show some simplicity without losing it's engaging qualities. Thank you for listening to my two cents.

make it free to play like LoL and games like that

Yes, and the connectivity, a FG need to have a very good netcode. I think Blazblue netcode is so good compared to the netcode of capcom games. And that is the only reason I keep playing BBCS EX.

Is that Dan doing quantum mechanics

@52- Stream monsters, lots of trash-talking/drama, and Aris' "the FGC is extra sexist, DEAL WITH IT" attitude would all beg to differ. There are individual players that may be very good for the FGC, but even many of the forum posts on Eventhubs or SRK are quite elitist. Hell, look at this topic -- you have half that have ideas of making the game more accessible, while the other half wants to keep a high-barrier of entry to newcomers. That doesn't sound very inviting to me.

As for LoL, having never played it, how would you know what the community is like?

Add an online feature that allows people to post and view tournaments or meet-ups in their area. Its hard to get into the FGC when you have no idea of its existence or scope, and people are much more likely to stick with a game even if it is a bit hard if you have strong social element that a community can provide.

So, the first and major thing would be to associate Skullgirls tutorials (from button identification, chains, jumps or blocks to frame data, recovery, hit proration and some deep advanced things) with the Blazblue netcode (online similar to offline and adding an online training mode where a good player can directly help a new player by teaching him new stuffs and some Co-op; the best thing we got from SFxT). That will be very very great for both new and stronger players.

People say that fighting game genre is "Oversaturated"

And Honestly I don't think so at all really. What makes it seem oversaturated is that they produce the same thing over and over.
Same look and feel with different characters and story. We've been drenched in the same thing for soo long that this is all we know.

The Meter system for example. Many games copy the format. There are games like Mortal Kombat that copied the format because this is the "Standard" for todays fighting games. I can saftely say nearly all of our games have one.

Moral of that is many games have the same format. The public is going to go to process of elimination until they got their 2 or 3 games. The rest wont appeal for long.

If a company can think outside the box and break the tradition while still making an amazing game. That will be the next game people will play for the next decade. Because we never seen nothing like it. Same thing happened with Mvc. That's why its so popular. Games like these have always appealed to the masses. SF,MK,MVC all had their moments like this..

It comes down to who can do it and if they can do it correctly

I doubt that great tutorials will bring in more players. It's true that it will reduce the time needed to go to the web to find tutorials, but most people are turned off by fighting games because it requires a lot of time to learn the game.

Most games that are popular can easily/intuitively be played without much tutorials. I think that's what fighting gaming industry should strife for. I know most don't agree with me, but I consider smash bros brawl as a successful example of bringing in casual gamers to play fighting game (it sells over 10 million copies and have avid followers, like me and my friends). One of the best feature in that game is that every characters have a common sets of move commands (forward A, Up A, down A, forward B, etc). That ease of inputs still able to make each characters feel very unique, because each command input does completely different attacks for each characters, unlike that LMH input in SFxT or PPPP in Persona 4. For example, pressing B using Link will shoot arrows,while pressing B with Zelda will make her summon shield that reflects projectiles, and so on.

Games like FPS also have very similar control schemes, so it's easy to play from one FPS games to another, and they don't have other unique characters that play differently (all have the same control scheme).

I personally would hate it if Street Fighter would be turned into casual games. But if we are talking about the survival of fighting games, the industry has to evolve to suits the market. I think a direction towards common control scheme that's easy to use while still maintaining the unique moves and properties will do well towards bringing in new comers.

- Better single-player experience, like a beefy story mode, complete arcade mode, challenges and such. While fighting games are supposed to be played in multiplayers, single-player modes really helps the player to get into the game.

- Mechanic tutorials, like how to link, chain and cancel, step-by-step executions, input practice. Recent ASW games do that, and while it might be too much to understand, at least it's there to understand. You know the mumbo-jumbo we keep using? Yeah, that should be explained thoroughly.

- Character tutorials and advanced tactics, for each. For instance, once the game is gold and released, have post-release contents that detailed new combos and such. It's one thing to make mistakes while using a character online, but it,s another when the game tells you how that character is used.

- Step-by-step challenges. While I'm not asking to automatic clears, I'd like to get, in the demonstration, some tools, to slow down the gameplay, visual cues and frame-by-frame analysis.

- Better punishment for rage-quitters online. Veterans should learn to lose against newcomers, and newcomers should just accep that veterans can be better.

- Better netcode, like no lag for playing with only 1-bar connections. That can be done. We're almost in 2013, so technology should be up-to-date now to get better connections.

- NO MORE DISK-LOCKED CONTENT! If it's on the disc, it's either unlocked from the start unlocked by playing, NOT by paying.

- Yearly updates, so the game doesn't die out. Making it like sport games with yearly releases, although for fighting games, make it DLC extras, like characters and stages. Buying 60$ games might turn some gamers off, but 15$ updates every year wouldn't.

- Add something to counter 100% combos. Getting KOed in one shot online is really frustrating, just because you made a slight mistake. That leads to average gamers rage-quitting the matchs and possibly dropping the game. Hate to burst your bubble, but that exploit should be get rid of. Add bursts in any form or auto-nerf the combo as it goes on, like more recovery, more start-up frames, less stuns and less damage. You know, a fatigue effect.

- More respect from everyone in the community. Video games are for everyone, and that includes fighting games. If they learn that the ocmminuty is made from just a bunch of elitists, purists and big shots, they're gonna quit playing the game. This isn't a competition here.

- Better acceptance for newcomers. Seriously, let them in. Fighting games are for everyone, and you don't need experience nor a diploma to play this game. This isn't the arcade era anymore where only the best would be allowed. Everyone has the chance now, so elitists, purists and big shots should just swallow their pride and let new blood in.

- More support for the games. That gets back to the yearly updates, but also to patches and re-balances.

The answer lies in the X factor, and Marvel ABC combos, and flashy 100 hit supers. Basically flashy over substances, the masses loves that sh!t, that's why COD is so popular, pick up a gun and start shooting.

Tekken can be fun when button mashing but complicated inputs are what annoy people unfamiliar with fighting games, i tried to get a friend of mine to Shoryuken and it is impossible, even watching me do it slowly didn't help. All those tricky special moves, even things we find easy like quarter and half circles, are huge hurdles for the less dedicated.
That same friend however, beat me moments later on WWE All Stars, he loved watching wrestling in the 90's and understands the slower grapple reversals, especially when the button prompt appears on the screen to let him know when to try it.

I've been a fan of Capcom since I was 9. In my lifetime, I've owned several of their fighting games but to be honest I don't play any of them very well. Eight out of ten times I get my @SS handed to me in SSF4, SF3 or UMVC3 when playing online or even against the AI. Am I a n00b? YES. I'm not lazy, I've searched online for tutorials and watched youtube videos but it really hasn't helped me and I don't know why perhaps it's my fault. I don't think I lack the patience I mean, I've spent almost 20 years sucking at these games yet I'm still willing to learn.

Now I know that the FGC was built by players who took their time learning how to play without anyone holding their hand so to speak nevertheless, I think Capcom, Namco, etc. should make an extra effort into designing tutorials that actually present you with situations that can help noobs improve their skills. This would really help players such as myself since there are a lot of things I don't really know how to apply in an actual match and I'm sure there are others out there like me and not everyone has friends who are fighting game experts who can teach or help them get better.

BTW, if anyone has any advice for a noob, your help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

plinking and 1-2 frame links gotta go,

everything else i don't care, i didn't sign up on FGC to play rhythm games in versus mode

**when combos become 'accessible', everything goes a little more enjoyable**

fighting game is fun because it is about interacting w/ your opponents, i don't want to worry over dropped combos due to muscle memory BS or lacking thereof.

i kinda miss the Alpha1 good old days even for a bit

People talk about a training mode helping, but I doubt people would use it because more likely than not it would come off boring.

Soulcalibur Broken Destiny (the SC4 PSP port) had the best training mode I have ever come across (in its 'Gauntlet Mode'). Doubt many ever played it since it was both a soulcalibur and PSP game. But honestly, going through all the gauntlet mission really made me into a more solid player, taught me a great deal about fighting game strategies.

It explained frame advantage or disadvantage on hit or block in a simple and character specific way, dealt out challenges that forced you to think about spacing on how to avoid or punish moves, etc.

However whenever I suggested to others to give it a shot, they all got bored quickly. I enjoyed it, but I can see it being boring for many.

So in essence, I don't think there's anything that can be done to make the games more accessible and thus more fun for the casual player. Perhaps I'm wrong and people would be open to training/tutorial modes like that.

But for all this talk about training modes, Soulcalibur Broken Destiny is a great place to look at for how it could be and should be done.

IBflackforplayingSC

You cannot compromise a genre of gaming just to please new players. Its always nice to see new faces join the scene, but most players know what they are getting into. It takes time to get good at fighters, and if you dont want to put the time in, play DOA

@92

"BTW, if anyone has any advice for a noob, your help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!"

Find me (or players like me) online. We'll help you practice and give you some tips. But playing, lots of playing! Is the only way to get better!

@96

Are you on PSN? BTW, thanks for willing to help.

#95: The question is how to make fighting games more accessible.

And if you think you can't compromise a a genre of gaming, look at action adventure genres. We use to have technical games like Devil May Cry series. Now the genre has been dumb down with QTEs by the likes of God of Wars and Asura's wrath.

This is not a genre where new players can jump in and be instantly good as experienced pros. Better marketing and tutorials can increase awareness, but what makes fighting games fighting games at their core should not be compromised for sales.

And who says the only way to appeal to the masses is by dumbing down fighters? Not everyone can play football, but millions watch. The key is making the fundamentals of fighters common knowledge and enjoyable to play on a beginner/intermediate level. Streams, tutorials, FGC personalities, and the companies themselves finally taking a more active role is what is helping the community grow.

A simpler game now and then can help ala Marvel 3 and PSAS, but as long the skill required for the genre itself isn't eroded, then this goal can be accomplished.

I was gonna write something but then I realized how off topic people have gotten so to keep everyone focused: here is what was asked.

"What should fighting game companies do to make their games more accessible? And what solutions could they implement that won't hurt their core audience?"

Accessable to new players and solutions that WON'T hurt core players...

Some of the ideas i've seen seem to just echo peoplse disatisfaction on things like DLC and balancing issues but this question goes deeper than that.