Full changelog coming soon?
My body is ready.

"successful regular throws will now erase any recoverable damage on the opponent’s vitality gauge."
I don't agree with this change... Oh well!!!

I like the fact that throws erase recoverable health, makes them even more effective. Shame Pandora isn't the same as it is on the SFXT mobile version but still positive steps. Really looking forward to this update.

yessss, throws erase recoverable damage....
finally, something to actually make this game unique, and now a big part of that will be a demonishly meta throw game.

They destroyed pandora. It was already amazing, just people refused to experiment, now it's just a 1 dimensional combo mechanic. If anything this is a nerf to pandora.

Wow, they really wanted to buff throws in this version. tick throw all day baby

everything seems great except for regular throws taking away recoverable health, i think that alone with make this game a grab fest, and i also dont agree with gems that require a super to be performed to activate will not work when pandora is active. also i dont mind them nerfing the gems but why are they getting rid of all the level 3 gems?

I like the throw changes. Sounds awesome.

Forward Recovery Roll
• A hurtbox will appear in the 7 frames when Forward Recovery ends, and the player will be able to block.
• A Forward Recovery Rolling character will be throwable in the 10 frames at the end of the roll and throw escapes will not be possible.

THAT's what I'm talking about. I suggested something like that.

For Pandora, another change is needed:
If super animation-time over for pandora wouldn't count as loss when the character is killed with it.

@2 they are trying to make this game as past paced as possible. Its pretty much no mercy for recovering health safe and sound..

I cant wait.

how is it so #5 ?
anyways really wanted pandora juggle counter -1 in usage or something.
Really want to know the distance the character is going to be when pandora?
Anyways the throw changes O_o.

the loss of recovery health along with the fact that forward rolls are unescapable throw punish for its last 10 frames really switches things up for this game

The changes are actually looking quite good, put the character dlc on sale and I might buy this again.

Woah, Pac-Man got some buff or what?

I hope these changes respark some intrest and people can get over the DLC character mess.

Nice, this makes throws much more rewarding

I am sorry but I def do not like this change.

We will see how it goes, but it removes incentive to tag out, less teamwork with less recoverable health, and it already recovers more slowly.

I will stay positive since I like the game overall.

@5 I dont see how you can say that. There were many characters that couldnt do much with it because of the position you was placed when activated. Pandora wasnt for anyone to use effectively before.

#13 i would say $1.66 per character is pretty cheap, it sound like you want capcom to give them to you for free. not to talk crap but if your still complaining about having to buy the dlc characters that are already on the game and you refuse to get the game based off of that stupid reason, i feel sorry for you because you will be missing out on a really good game that they're making way better.

"Vitality Gauge
• Vitality Gauge will not shake when a character takes damage."

FINALLYYYYYYYYYYY

Wow these changes are really good

The change in the throw was good because it makes less time outs.

Thank you Capcom.

#10 They already achieved that with the other changes. I think that throws already have its purpose, there's no need to add more. It would've made more sense to add that to either punishing unsafe tags (When you get a happy birthday on both characters), or during Cross Assault. And if Im not mistaken Cross Art already takes grey life.

there is no longer going to be a point in having invincible frames on start up because the of the push back nerf. Before you could avoid dangerous meatys and tricky cross ups, but that is now ruined, and with the meter regen gone you are now restricted to 3 bars where as a number of the cast could have 7+ bar combos. Getting a reversal pandora will mean nothing because not only be closer to the move trying to hit you, you'll still be in recovery making it a free confirm for them, something you otherwise tried to avoid. pandora was never meant for combos

an example of what you could do now and wont be able to later because of the change
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyPp2C...
if the video doesn't go to the point i marked the it starts at 2:35.

pandora had a plethora of options and now those have been stripped down to a simpler form because of everyone's cries in ignorance Like seriosuly I get so many pandora wins everytime i play. I have more pandora win than chip and grape combined. that video is only one example of how it could have been implemented.

YOOOO people complained bout timeouts. now don't complain about crazy tick throw 'damage'. This game is gonna be so punishing. God i'm gettin a BB vibe all over my body.

I think they punished rolls a bit too much. If you don't want rolls, go play SF4. Otherwise, what's the point?

Yea rolls were good, agree with 25.

I'm stoked! Can't wait till 2014 when this comes out for PC!

no seriously, where are our patches?

Yay! I'm glad they toned down their nerf to rolls, while still making them very punishable. A good balance.

2013 will be awesome.

I'm going to experiment so much with Pandora once the patch drops. Epic lab session awaits...

@25
Well, there is the fact that this is still a tag game with a different combo system, different size of super bars, no ultras, no focus and FADCs, has Alpha Counter system and 30 characters that do not exist in SF4, plus the option to roll and escape some set-ups STILL exists.
But otherwise, you are correct, there is no point

@Strider_RagnaroK

I assume your worried people are just gonna abuse throws because of this feature. People will abuse throws anyways. This just adds another layer of strategy to the metagame.

I also like the quality of life changes like moving the preset combos around so they don't get in the way unless you manually select it and no shaking on the vitility gauge. I just might pick this back up at the end of the year.

#17
Pandora was never meant to be a combo mechanic. It was best used to punish things you couldn't otherwise punish in a dire situation. Every character had a use for pandora and if i can hit random select a multiple number of times and find pandora uses for that team(which i have) then people are doing something wrong.

Overcompensation?

"SFxTimeout" which I never thought it was....is now becoming SFxKnockout in 10 seconds.

Hope u guys are happy with that! Dont make any mistakes because you will be dead VERY quickly, I can see that already.

This just replaced SSF4AE:2012 for me.

Yeah they kinda wrecked the great usefulness of pandora. . . I think. now gotta wait and see. But it really seems screwed now.

Side note the game is half off on Steam right now.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/209120

Once updated PC will be the best version, as with AE2012 now.

Damn man, they made 2 mistakes here:

(1) Throws are now way too powerful for their own good. They do too much damage and people will play this game with more throwing, which is going to be a grab fest. I wonder if command grabs have the same properties.

(2) Rolls were already punishable because you could lead to a mix up on their wake up rolls. Now that rolls are completely unsafe, the roll factor is gone. So much for the 10% tekken portion of this game...

#35

You mean uselessness. Sorry, but when only a very select few characters can actually make use of Pandora, it's an unbalanced mechanic

Now Pandora is useful across the board for all characters WHILE MAINTAINING THE RISK ELEMENT OF LOSING AFTER 10 SECONDS

rolls are fine, they are now there to avoid auto pilot vortex mixups. 7 frames is not a lot, seriously ppl, stfu.

@37: Cue Hugo going back as the most used character. Unsurprising.

"• Except for air throws, successful regular throws will now erase any recoverable damage on the opponent’s vitality gauge."

This is an amazing buff to throws on top of the faster startup. It's needed too because in the game's current state regular throws kinda suck and weren't feared at all. They're still slower than AE's throws but removing recoverable life more than makes up for that.

@40

News flash buddy, Hugo was never used because of his throw capability, considering he had the slowest command throw of all grapple characters. Don't bother starting the Hugo whine-fest back up, he was never a problem except among scrubs that refused to learn the matchup against him.

1) Removing regenrating Super meter from Pandora was completely stupid an unecessary

2) Cole did not deserve even a single nerf. If anything he needs more buffs; particularly a health increase

3) Why does Kuro get no changes? Not a big deal, but still a little odd

4) Rolls need to be buffed back to how they were in vanillia SFxT. Otherwise the wake-up game is just practically SFIV

5) Recoverable health needs to go back to the speed that it was in vanilla now that grabs take away recoverable health

Im really liking the fact that this is game is getting much more aggresive, seems like being in the throw range is gonna be terrifying

Psst...

Pssst...

The "throws remove recoverable damage" is for UNIVERSAL THROWS, not command throws.

#38
Here is a scenario for you: You get knocked down by ken and he can go for a meaty step kick(so no rolling) into ex dp for chip kill on first hit (so no guard cancel), and lets say your character doesn't have any invincible reversals. How are you going to avoid that in 2013? You won't, because the the incoming character will now be close enough to hit and you will be stuck in 5 frame recovery so you wont be able to block now. You will be stuck in the same situation except only this time they will run away for the remained of the time. this also applies to cross ups including dive kicks and tatsu as well.

And yet, Pandora still kills you... No wonder nobody uses it...

Don't you love getting turtled as soon as you activate Pandora, have a cat & mouse chase and have the opponent spamming the throws to tech you?

At least throws still aren't too terribly great, one of the best parts about this game is that they are not completely brain dead, low risk high reward like in SF4.

Who gives a damn? People would believe that it includes all kinds of throws, so it won't take long for the scrubs that populate the bulk of this game to transform it into a grappler fest.

Seriously, if I wanted a grappler fest, I would prefer WWE 13.

Throw festival? I dont thing so, in this game throws come at 5 frames and have short range, its not like sf4 with 3 frames start up and bigger range, though some characters like ryu or jin have easier tick throw cuz their frame advantadge in normals.

Pandora better useless than another x factor.

Jack X Megathon earthquake now can be bloqued high too and less stun nice

Oh no, I just noticed my two favourite gems, 24 and 245 got nerfed to hell. My Pandora combos wont be very damaging at all now. That sucks balls. I only used Pandora enhancing gems too. It was cheap, but I loved the messages people would send me after I KO'd them with a 750+ damage combo.

Don't get caught slipping on defense in this game, one whiffed normal could cost you half your life/all your recoverable health. And with no sure comeback mechanic, making a comeback is less likely to happen. I love these changes.

It was under used but never useless. that was a good thing because it took lab work to know how to use it properly you couldn't just brainlessly throw it out there or pop it from a confirm. if anything it is now more like xfactor than before.

This change to the throws is ingenious. Combos or moves that leave you in a position to apply more wake-up pressure are now much stronger, as they lead into a throw/frame trap situation where both options are very powerful. It will encourage more risk-taking and even further reduce the time outs. Furthermore is makes grapplers stronger all-around by default. A subtle but brilliant change.

#32

i've always like the idea of pandora but for alot of characters it seems useless, your saying it was never meant as a combo tool but that not true, when the game 1st came out and even before then it was always showed off and advertised as as a combo tool. as a combo tool it useless if the character activating pandora doesnt have a ground bounce or wall bounce, and even if they do have that, the character coming in has to have juggles potential and opportunity. as a counter tool to punish someone its character/situation specific, like you said every character may have a use for it but if the required situation never happens your screwed because then the tool your banking on becomes useless. in my opinion what made pandora so bad was you only had 7 seconds to make something happen in your last attempt to win the match and your position on the screen after the other character has been sacrificed put you in a terrible position to start in and made it difficult to push up since your opponent would just run away since you would die on your own.

#46 I understand what you are saying but what you are doing is theory fighting. That scenario is highly unlikely and even so isnt a strong enough argument to justify why that fix shouldnt of went through.
Honestly there are many variations of that scenario that would still apply in the game now.

Guys please UN NERF ROLLS before this is released.

Listen to the players.

Throws taking all grey health....I'm a little offput by that. My favorite thing about this game is the tag element, and the slower grey health recovery combined with this throw tweak will detract from the tag element. At least it seems that way to me for now, looking forward to trying this all out.

I'm one of the people who enjoys the game immensely already in its current state, but I suppose the masses have spoken (or maybe the vocal minority according to the fight tracker lol).

The thing the CAPCOM is they cant just make ONE CHANGE and leave it be, they have to OVERDO it. OK you slashed grey health by making it slower - DONE, NOW LEAVE IT ALONE....

but no, now u gotta go and overnerf in classic capcom over-adjustment fashion and kill it harder with throws.

YOU PUT IT INTO THE GAME for a reason, dont abandon it completely by overnerfing, you guys ALWAYS DO THIS in one way or another.

Character nerfs usually, now its a fight system nerf.

Agree with 57 glad you guys are trying, but if you nerf something once, DONT DO IT AGAIN before the 1st nerf is even played out!!

I'm definitely liking what they did to the throws since they are bad compared to the faster and larger ranged ones in SF4. The rolls too, it makes the "easy way out" now a choice between having the confidence that you can get out of or block an incoming mix up, or using the roll and risking a LOT of damage. Overall I like the game changes so far, even if 3 of the 4 characters I play got hit with the nerf bat, can't wait for the full changelog!

#56

no.

#57

raw tags were almost always a poor decision even in vanilla. boost combo tagging was always your worst option damage-wise. tag canceling had its own built in risk-reward irrespective of the issue of recoverable health. i don't see how any of those things have changed. tagging for the sole sake of recovering health was never a particularly interesting aspect of the metagame. all that's happened is now tagging will be more about matchups and synergy and less about camping out while you get all your health back. you'll have to be more careful about when and how you tag, and you'll have more consequences to consider when doing so. consequence is the brethren of depth; this can only be a good thing.

edit: #59

the whole balancing process has been ongoing for months. we won't know whether or not something was under- or over-nerfed until it ends up in our hands. they didn't nerf anything "again", they simply never stopped making tweaks to the game, and you're only learning about one of them now.

well I guess they adressed the timeout-issue by removing recoverable health, eh?

I like the throw changes, for those so scared of them you can always tech them that helps.

who wants some cheese with their whine?

"The character that goes into Pandora will appear closer to their fallen partner"

I was waiting for someone to say something about this. This simple change can create a whole new ball game..

Although I must admit many characters wake up pressure will improve with the new roll system.

The throw buffs isnt as bad what people make it out to be. D frame throw isnt a big deal at all. The grey health is whats going to make people want to grab alot more.

But lets be serious here. How easy mode do yall want the game to be.. Its nothing to just "Tech" the grab. Light attacks beat grabs also.

Its only going to be a "Throw fest" for the scrubs honestly..Everyone eles is going to be teching grabs.

All I know is that I like the tag system and I like the grey health setup, and this affects it a lot.

It might turn out for the better - no one REALLY knows until its played out and I'd like them to give it a chance before making more and more changes, especially on one aspect of the game(aka throws and grey health)

Throws were already changed, as was grey health, now they are further again before we even had a chance to test the 1st changes.

Yes yes yes YES! ALL OF MY YES! Now Pandora might very well be usable! Throws are much more useful than before! It seems we can deactivate Quick Combos by simply putting both options on QC1! And all the little things!
Now I just wish they could try and improve the netcode! It's the only thing that bothers me!
Suck it haters!

seriously,the new throw mechanic should be fine. Throws are 5 frames... that's slow as hell, plus they have crap range. It's not a big deal.

GOSH, FINALLY!

Ayano-san is my new hero!

I like the changes, including the rolls beign more punishable, these changes were needed. GJ capcom, its kinda too late now.. the game was released in february, but anyway.

"yessss, throws erase recoverable damage....
finally, something to actually make this game unique,"

It's stolen from TekkenTag (as most things in this game) not something unique or new and fresh

I'm not sure how I feel about these changes, but I really hope come end January this game will be fun to play again. Its fun now, but it just lacks the consistency of SF. In this game you can beat really high rank players occasionally, and lose to people who are horrible all time. there is just too much tech and luck, once this game is finalized, and we figure out all the new tech, it should take a year or two before we get a solid fighter. It just takes people not jumping the ship and sticking it out. that's why SF is where it is, because there were no other big titles at the time, so people stuck through the horrible vanilla and iterations, and now we have a game where I believe 80% of the cast is viable competitively. SFxT could get there, but only if this new model is good, and the community (and online) do work.

im worried the throw changes will influence more to be "grab happy", if this is the case then i will not be playing it

if they're gonna make pandora like ultras in this game they might as well give us the option to choose between vanilla pandora and v2013 like U1 and U2

My head still hurts for how stupidly good rolls were in vanilla SFxT, yeah, let's give every character in the game a zero meter way to get out for free after they got knocked to the floor...

@38 Super charge mechanic is a much more unbalanced mechanic then Pandora ever was.

@72: NOT SO FAST SON. TTTT's throws only erase "a good amount of" recoverable health with tag throws. If you have a large amount of red health, not all of it goes away. Only saying it cause I've taken a break from SF X TKN for now to enjoy Baek and Hwoar on TTTT.

Hmm I think there still won't be that much throwing with all the 3f jabs easily chaining into big combos. And I think extending the time on pandora won't help. Placement change is a good thing, but still it is the suicide button of that game. They don't want it to be too easy to wake up ultra people like in sf4 but in doing so has made it too akward to be a good comeback mechanic. Needs a total reworking imo. [Ps. Wish they'd buff the Sony/pacman/megaman chars more :_( ]

As long as you still die after Pandora runs out, Pandora will forever be ass and no one will use it.

Why can the devs understand this?

Oh well, nice try. Pandora will still be unseen in majors, if majors still runs this game.

I like this changes a lot.
more punishing throws will improve mixups, less timeouts. The grey health nerf wont be so much of an issue since the nerf of boost combos will shift damage to link combos that create way less grey health.

Punishable rolls are ok on my book, escaping wake up is too cheap now, i will wait to see the game live before i judge if its too much.

And for me, pandora changes are great, Alisa super is very slow and its very hard to combo in pandora. This is going to make sfxt matches so much more interesting to watch, like it or not, comeback mechanics get a lot of hype

And sorry but the lack of pandora usage on Capcom tourney speaks volumes on how useless it is.

@Blankabeast you're an idiot! This change is better for the meta game and if anything gives more options overall. Did you read it right? You can block 3 frames faster than you are vulnerable to a 5 frame start up on throws! You can block or os tech!

You're an idiot showing how much of a scrubby player you probably are. You can block before the roll even ends and you can tech the throw you're so worried about taking your grey damage. Moron lol. You exemplify how stupid some so called members of the fgc are. You clearly can not read and are spazzing before you even play. Shut up.

@82
• A Forward Recovery Rolling character will be throwable in the 10 frames at the end of the roll and throw escapes will not be possible.

What part of "throw escapes will not be possible" am I misunderstanding? Please explain danny boy.

Throws should create unrecoverable damage, it shouldn't remove all recoverable damage up to that point. That's a little extreme.

No additional Christie changes sad face yet again they fail.

Rolls being even more punishable is just silly they already were like a free hit anyways now its like one hit your done...

Life bars don't shake anymore? YEEEEEEEEEEEES!

hah.. the reactions to an upcoming Patchlog on a capcom fighter is worth the quick glance

Throws aren't going to be a big deal. If you play right, the opponent doesn't get much red life anyway. That was the major issue with the timer. Many people relied solely on boost combos that scale heavily and give lots of red life. Even top players rely on them. But they're gained immaculate footsies from other games so they can win on that basis alone. This patch is not about making new options, it's about nerfing old ones to force players to play more efficiently.

@88

"Derping?", as in... Fapping?

Man, that's messed up Green.

@KissofPoison
Also no Falling Rain buff

Rolls will still be usable for vortex and some rush things, right now people just roll all the time, no matter if you trying a vortex or just rush down, people just roll, so a free scape from the corner no matter what you do.

Grabs are slow and rangeless, also you can tech them, this is not sf4 where grabs where too abusable

I was really hoping that Pandora would leave one character with pixel health. Imagine the hype of one comeback of a pixel health against 2 characters!
Also, if you activate Pandora you should have a speed boost to chase the opponent.

To the two people taking issue with the changes to throws: tech the throw.

Typical eventscrubs thinking pandora got nerfed.. With the 2013 changes you'll easily be able to combo into pandora off a bounce while continuing the combo with the pandora character. And now you'll have the option to end the combo with a super for an almost guaranteed kill. This wasn't practical before because the super meter took too long to fill and you were left too far away from your fallen partner for most characters to continue the combo.

With the right gems you'll be able to kill most full health characters in one combo. XFACTORY BABY!

Stupid sxcrubs.... Rolls should be punishable. People afraid of vortex because they dont like to react or block. People clearly noobs and are afraid of defending...They think this is going to become SF4ish....difference is unlike SF4 you cant roll forward. So this is better ODDS, do you tech, roll or do not tech and delay your standup Thats better than the option of just quick stand or delay. It's suppose to be a chance, do you mash and quick stand, roll or, do not tech at all. Your hand should not be held when you make mistakes. You also have the same option of doing this to your opponent as well. Difference is "GOOD" players will expose bad players even more.

Use the tools to your advantage.

With the throw buff, I'm fine with rolls either forcing you into a block or being punished by grabs, instead of being punishable by everything.

I think what everyone is trying to say is:

Our bodies are reggies.

i liked when the rolls were more safe~
it was more fun to see how the player would react to the roll~
like syouganai's asuka; starting off with an overhead or df+hk,
or just plain trick them using exceptional spacing and timing..
i thought that part of the game was great.

My thoughts
- rolls are worse but still the better wake up option unless it's easy to punish with throws.
- throws are now really good when the opponent has a lot of red life and still bad at other times. Would be interesting to see if this leads to mind games.
- Pandora is overall better cause the situations where fill meter is better are less and riskier. Now it benefits more combos but it's still very much a desperate last ditch comeback effort.

@74 Learn how to tech. Simple. On topic, the changes still aren't making me want to get back into this game. Oh well. I just don't care anymore.