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Mike Watson: Virtua Fighter 5's lack of support should be an example of how a game dies in the community

Posted by SFilp • December 19, 2012 at 5:06 p.m. PST
Mike Watson: Virtua Fighter 5's lack of support should be an example of how a game dies in the community A few weeeks ago Virtua Fighter 5: Final Showdown was officially dropped from the lineup of Wednesday Night Fights due it's lack of support from the community.

Mike Watson, the manager at Super Arcade in Walnut, California made giant post on Twitter where he goes into his feelings on games being dropped from the WNF and TRB lineups. He talks how the game started growing popularity, how strong supporters like La Akira tried everything in his power to bring new competition to the game, how a game technically "dies" in our community and more.

My thoughts on games being dropped from WNF and TRB lineups : first i would like to say i have no favoritism towards which games i will support and which game i try to keep alive at our weekly tourneys. i will always support any game that has players who show love and support towards their community and put for an effort to keeping it competitive and prosperous. with this said it saddens me to see Virtual Fighter being dropped from WNF as of now due to a lack of support.

One of the strongest supporters of this game "laakira" tried everything in his power aside from driving a bus to come pick up people at their house and bring them to our arcade. mind you laakira lived about 90 mins from the arcade, has a full time job, and isnt your typical teanage kid anymore. he offered a $50 bonus coined "rising star" to the top placing new player out of his pocket to attract a fresh player to the scene and even put a $10 bounty to anyone he could beat him 1 game in the tourney. this basically means he was forced to win the tourney to break even on his investment of money, not including time, gas, food expenses while attending this event weekly. this type of dedication led to about 25-30 people entering VF5 for the first couple weeks it was introduced to the WNF roster. then as any other game it eventually lost some steam and the numbers hit a solid 16, then dwindled to 8 and sadly down to 3 or 4 for the last couple weeks.

This should be an example of how a game will technically "die" in a community. top players have a responsibility to show up and help their community strive. if you are a local or even semi local like laakira, you should come show support for the game of your interest to help keep it alive and around for not only yourself to enjoy, but other players as well. VF5 gained steam in america the launch event in los angeles and not its not even on life support. the community had a strong voice online through the forums and many people reacted when the newer version wasnt being released in america. eventually sega accommodated them and it seems all for nothing unfortunately.......

Before i drag this post out, just keep in mind that your game could be dying too. dont just sit at home if you are able to come out and complete and play, or even just hang out with the community once a week, a month, or whenever you can. show some effort and help your game survive not by playing online, but by attending events, bringing friends to events, and participating in your local tourneys. this is the only way to keep this from happening to other games. king of fighters and persona, im talking to you guys right now, spread the word, do something if you care, otherwise dont complain when Street Fighter and Marvel are the only games in tournament lineups and you no longer have an option to play what you want......

Sorry for such a long post, and thanks for reading. i hope this opens peoples eyes and they return something to the community that has provided them with countless hours of entertainment and hopefully great times.

Currently, in our Fight Tracker, Virtua Fighter 5: Final Showdown has a total of 296 players which is about 6% of the Fight Tracker population actively playing it, meaning it's near the bottom as far as active players are concerned. For more information on stats from the Fight Tracker check out the Statistics page.

Comments

Hypermarth said on December 19, 2012 at 4:55 p.m.

Yeah, I need to try and get more guys in my area to work on their Persona game. I play their Mahvels and their Straight fighters too, so obviously I just need to get them into Persona xD.

#1
illness690 said on December 19, 2012 at 5:01 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#2
Blinky said on December 19, 2012 at 5:02 p.m.

I need to get into a community...

...When I'm finished with USAF BMT and tech school that is.

#3
SnakeX said on December 19, 2012 at 5:02 p.m.

All of that is spot on.
Lack of support from the PLAYERS is always the biggest reason why a game dies out of the tourney scene. Not bias, lack of support on the dev's end, or any other excuse that anyone can come up with.
Lack of people coming out to participate in tournaments is why SkullGirls died out, and why P4A and SC5 are dying out. Want your favorite game that isn't named Street Fighter, MvC, or Tekken to have an extended life span? Then go out to tournaments and encourage the rest of the community to go out and play as well!

#4
100thMonkey said on December 19, 2012 at 5:12 p.m.

@2 that is your opinion, which doesn't make it true.

#5
milkshake said on December 19, 2012 at 5:14 p.m.

This one dude told me that I should play KoF. I agreed, then he proceeded to ignore me while practicing combos in training mode. Sometimes it's not the games, but the players that are dead.

#6
suicidali said on December 19, 2012 at 5:16 p.m.

I do enjoy playing VF5 from time to time, even though I have like a 10% win/loss ratio on it...
The only scene I've ever been to is a 2 hour train journey from here, and they've only ever played SF and Marvel since I've known about it... So I wouldn't have been able to help keep VF5 alive even if I wanted to :(

#7
KissofPoison said on December 19, 2012 at 5:19 p.m.

It's just in time, all games will go through this cycle of on top of the wave and in the crest. Of course no one likes to see a game dropped, however eventually they all will be for ones in the future yet to come.

#8
rlt4life said on December 19, 2012 at 5:20 p.m.

For all the crap talking the majority of people who praised VF5 did, this just shows how "supportive" they really were. Just like what happened with Skullgirls, people claimed they loved it and would never go back to anything else. What's sad is that VF5 really IS a solid game.

#9
Dark_Obliske said on December 19, 2012 at 5:20 p.m.

@2 vf is no boring than watching sanford vs dieminion or watching chris g soul fist spamming....not complainng about their style cuz they do what it takes to win but every game will have there boring match ups,but every fighting game is fun to watch

#10
Virtua_Kazama said on December 19, 2012 at 5:22 p.m.

I'm saddened by this. I love VF as the next person, but it's a shame that there is a lack of support in the US.

Keep in mind that it can happen to any game. People want SFxT dead. Skullgirls is dying, P4A is dying, SC5 is dying, etc.

If you want your favorite fighter (whether it is 2D or 3D) to stay alive, you must come out to these tournaments and support your community.

#11
HooliganComboFTW said on December 19, 2012 at 5:23 p.m.

The thought of just Marvel or SF4 being the only 2d fighters deemed by the general community worth their time to invest is pretty disheartening when Kof or Persona which are stand up fighters themselves (SG is understandable why it died off, it had too little content to keep players hooked in long run) barely get a fraction of that.

Tekken (At least until it dies off again) is gonna monopolize the 3d fighters mostly due to the lack of open minded gamers willing to get into the other games present (SC V, DoA 5, VF 5 FS are fighters that are very much capable of "hype" matches.)

#12
SuperStraightFighter said on December 19, 2012 at 5:23 p.m.

I'm sad to see GG has such a low pool of players as well, it is the most stylish, technical and fun 2d fighters ever, seriously some people can't tell when an amazing fighting game hit them on their skull. Sometime there is no fighting game scene in your area as well, for an adult how do you approach this? The only thing you can do is post on popular forums and ask if there is any players around your area, it's not like you go out and ask if anyone plays fighting games, on top of that there is the job, family issues, etc.

#13
TheOne said on December 19, 2012 at 5:32 p.m.

Kind of the same reason why SFxT was out of the lineup as well. It had some people supporting it, but those people never showcase what the game had to offer. Also where's the new 'tech' they keep talking about? UMvC3 has something new to show and what does SFxT show; replays of top/known players, who gives a damn.

Other than that, the game is covered up by negative comments and those who hate it, stop supporting it. Even with the new version coming out, it doesn't look like it's getting a 2nd chance it deserves. If you want your game to be alive, play less online, and go more offline events/majors.

#14
TheBoneCollector said on December 19, 2012 at 5:33 p.m.

this is some true stuff..

#15
Existent said on December 19, 2012 at 5:34 p.m.

VF5 is the last game that this should happen to. It doesn't deserve to be on the bottom of the heap of 3D fighters.

#16
SuperStraightFighter said on December 19, 2012 at 5:43 p.m.

You know what can save VF5 now? Body pillows!!! lol just kidding.

#17
Chrisuchiwa said on December 19, 2012 at 5:43 p.m.

EVO games will be announced in a couple of weeks, I won't surprise me if some games don't make it.
It think that SFxT can make it one more time.

#18
KissofPoison said on December 19, 2012 at 5:43 p.m.

@11

It's not as simple as "coming out" for tournaments. Some organizers are so content with staying in their areas, hell the closest one to me it what days drive away from me one way.

Perhaps if instead of always having tournaments in the same location, these organizers should try varying the location. It's like EVO, every year it's at the same place. It's just.... not something that makes tournaments a very attractive thing.

All of these coastal competitions those of us in the middle of both have really nothing to show our support by showing up for. I think the only tournament ever in my town was like a midnight launch tourny for MK and it had four people..... >_>

#19
KleenexGhost said on December 19, 2012 at 5:45 p.m.

It makes me feel bad for the game because it's a damn good game. But like you guys said lack of support will kill a game. I've had the game for a while now on PS3 and nobody is playing online anymore. I can never find any games. It 's sad especially when you have someone trying really hard like laakira was to get ppl out there to play the game.

#20
king_e_dawg said on December 19, 2012 at 5:45 p.m.

I can't stand that mentality that "Oh, VF is boring." You know what? Every game is boring until people discover things and play exciting matches that hype it up. And a high-level VF match in Japan is way more insane than anything we've seen here because they've stuck with it. The only reason people seem to be able to come up with for not playing VF - and no other, because nobody is in a position to deny the game's legit - is that NOBODY PLAYS IT. Well, whose fault is that??? Sega and the community got behind Final Showdown like no other VF game in this country before, and people still let it die. They'd rather play Tekken, a game with archaic movement mechanics that's pretty much a race to get the first 80% damage wall combo... because it has kangaroos and eye beams? This is why the FGC can't have nice things.

#21
Tensa said on December 19, 2012 at 5:46 p.m.

Once bbcp drops I will do what I can to get people to play it I took a long break from p4a since not many ppl play that I know of anymore,I don't like seeing games die I don't play vf5 but I respect it an I do watch it some times

#22
illness690 said on December 19, 2012 at 5:47 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#23
BlackGuile said on December 19, 2012 at 5:47 p.m.

Props to LAAkira putting in the effort, but people just aren't feeling the game enough to show up.

#24
Existent said on December 19, 2012 at 5:52 p.m.

@23
It's only difficult to learn if you don't know where to look for information. And yes, that -is- your opinion, not the truth.

#25
illness690 said on December 19, 2012 at 5:55 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#26
Virtua_Kazama said on December 19, 2012 at 5:56 p.m.

Well, VFDC is trying its best to keep it alive. I mean SEGA and Level|Up teamed up for a VF5FS tourney called the SEGA Cup

http://virtuafighter.com/threads/sega...

#27
Existent said on December 19, 2012 at 5:57 p.m.

@26
You can keep saying that for as long as you want. It's not going to become true no matter how matter times we go back and forth.

#28
BUYACUSHUN said on December 19, 2012 at 5:58 p.m.

Sg seems to have an ok online see for a game of its size. What with the weeklies and all, if you're PS3 :(

That really sucks though. Finding a past time and it being taken away from you because so few enjoy it. If only people would actually enter and the worst part is VF only cost 15 like WTF.

#29
masang said on December 19, 2012 at 5:58 p.m.

@23,
"It's boring to watch, and difficult to get into."

you're absolutely correct. most people don't have the mental capacity to understand and play the game.

#30
king_e_dawg said on December 19, 2012 at 5:58 p.m.

Illness690

Have you even tried to learn the game? Because it's 8-way run, dodging is essentially like parrying, and general character movesets are fairly easy to pick up. It's actually incredibly simple. The depth comes with skill. And again, boring is what you make it, and the US crowd has made NOTHING of it.

#31
icejohn said on December 19, 2012 at 5:58 p.m.

@17
Hey for a dead game, any publicity is good publicity.

btw i can't believe ya'll took Illness's bait.

#32
illness690 said on December 19, 2012 at 5:59 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#33
Existent said on December 19, 2012 at 6 p.m.
#34
king_e_dawg said on December 19, 2012 at 6:01 p.m.

@illness690

And how much do you flash kick per match?

#35
suicidali said on December 19, 2012 at 6:02 p.m.

@23
I'd actually argue that it's one of the easiest fighting games to get into on a basic level since there's only 3 buttons, and there isn't an overly complex combo system. Sure, there are combos in it, but Marvel or Tekken it ain't.

#36
KleenexGhost said on December 19, 2012 at 6:03 p.m.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

#37
KleenexGhost said on December 19, 2012 at 6:05 p.m.

And yeah it's like DOA. Simple on the surface but really deep once you get into it

#38
NoizyChild said on December 19, 2012 at 6:06 p.m.

Hate to say it, but there's a reason VF has never been popular outside of Japan.

The game just doesn't grab peoples' attention like Marvel, SF, or even Tekken does.

It also doesn't help that most VF players come off as angry elitist snobs that are jealous of other games' scenes. Like, say, #30 up there.

#39
illness690 said on December 19, 2012 at 6:06 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#40
masang said on December 19, 2012 at 6:10 p.m.

stop arguing guys. so he doesn't like VF and thinks it's boring. big deal. i love VF and can agree to many of these type of statements, but it doesn't bother me a bit.
i respect the game because it's legacy and prestige in japan is beyond what any other fighting game will probably ever achieve, with the exception to it's brother/sister game back then, which is of course SF.
sure many people will say, "well, that's japan. we live in america."
and i completely understand that, but i still acknowledge the game being soley popular in japan for the same reason why marvel was generally soley popular in america.
who cares. just play games. the FGC is a joke nowadays getting caught up in all this. just have fun. whatever.

#41
KleenexGhost said on December 19, 2012 at 6:13 p.m.

@39 True, it just sucks to see a good game dying like this.

#42
masang said on December 19, 2012 at 6:14 p.m.

#39 noizy,

just poking fun at his "statement". it's just the general consensus that it's hard for most people to get into. he said it himself. yea, i feel it's a hard game too and i barely understand it myself. as for angry elitist snobs, you've described about 90% of the FGC in general.

#43
SuperStraightFighter said on December 19, 2012 at 6:15 p.m.

@32

I didn't take the bait, and I don't think he is trolling either.

#44
BumblebeeCody said on December 19, 2012 at 6:16 p.m.

@rlt4life
That's the community in general. Also, you're wrong illness690. 2D fights die just as bad
"OMG YAY VF5, Skullgirls, 3S:OE, MvC:O, MvC2 etc etc." and how many people give a crap about those games?
It's the bandwagon effect.

#45
Virtua_Kazama said on December 19, 2012 at 6:18 p.m.

No matter what, I'll still continue to support VF and DOA.

#46
BigFleccs said on December 19, 2012 at 6:18 p.m.

i personally don't play VF5 i prefer 2d games, but i think tekken is better in that type of game. i like the one that was on sega saturn back in the days but don't feel the same about this one. So im not going to put a lot of effort in a game i don't like. I didn't like p4arena either.i like ae, mvc3, bb, darkstalkers, arcania hearts, but to each their own, oh yea 3Soe

#47
illness690 said on December 19, 2012 at 6:18 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#48
Existent said on December 19, 2012 at 6:18 p.m.

@41
We're not arguing because he thinks it's boring. We're arguing because he's stating his opinion as a universal truth.

#49
KleenexGhost said on December 19, 2012 at 6:19 p.m.

@masang

I definitely agree with you with that last sentence.

#50
xxMarshy said on December 19, 2012 at 6:23 p.m.

VF5 being one of the most boring fighting games to watch on the market now can't be helping either.

#51
Ginta36 said on December 19, 2012 at 6:28 p.m.

VF5 is easier to learn than Tekken. That is my opinion. Playing VF taught me how to play TTT2 because the fundamentals in VF lays the foundation to be good at any 3D fighter - in my opinion.

#52
illness690 said on December 19, 2012 at 6:40 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#53
dro2191 said on December 19, 2012 at 6:43 p.m.

i agree with what #6 said read his/her comment

#54
SillyGoose said on December 19, 2012 at 6:47 p.m.

People are missing the point of the post. Shoutout to LA Akira. He's an example of you support your favorite game & it's not wasting time arguing on Eventscrubs.

#55
RunningWild said on December 19, 2012 at 6:59 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#56
KleenexGhost said on December 19, 2012 at 7 p.m.

@Illness the FGC needs a wakeup call. I second that.

#57
NoizyChild said on December 19, 2012 at 7 p.m.

LA Akira knew the game was doomed from the start. It's admirable that he tried, but come on, it's VF in America. Nobody has paid attention to VF since 1996.

You can blame Marvel, SF4, or Tekken all you want, but the truth of the matter is that Virtua Fighter has NEVER been big or popular in America.

#53

3S had its time for 10 years, as did MVC2. Both of those games just simply got outmoded by their successors.

SG was destined to fail, though.

#58
Mabans said on December 19, 2012 at 7:05 p.m.

Game is good, reviews, top players, and fighting game pros agree, so that isn't the issue. If you feel it's "bad" then explain to me outside of emotional descriptions of what actually makes this game a faulty game. Because just because it's "boring" doesn't make it bad, I think Madden & HALO are boring. If players really believe in the game they will support it. There are countless of games that prove that but sometimes games just don't. I personally think it's because of how steep of a learning curve it has. I think that if 3rd Strike would to come out now, during these times, it would not be have gained the traction it did back in the 90s, it's a completely different generation and mentality. It's not bad, just different. It's a shame, I thought VF5 was interesting, kept my attention.

#59
HooliganComboFTW said on December 19, 2012 at 7:11 p.m.

#53

Of course you are since you have nothing better to do, but to get an erection off like a giddy schoolboy trolling people on a VF article of all things as your primary source of entertainment

#60
TrueGamingGuru said on December 19, 2012 at 7:13 p.m.

Westerns in general are full of people that are arrogant, narrowminded, and are sterotypes to human rights.

I did heard that fighting games in general are too hard for casuals even if it was 2D or 3D despite what buttons to press. I think the really problem in general is people's personility.

FGC, Casuals, & Elitist are always the meaning why games don't stand too well, and might be the death of fighting games like what happen with beat em ups, these people don't have the true personility or know the meaning of the TRUE FIGHTER as what I am.

I am very openminded, passionate, and the willing to try something different or something new. Which almost everyone is missing the true personility, when people perfer not to learn or willing to expand the personility within.

Look at History of Japan, not only they follow cultures their own countries but others as well. I belive that the Western countries should not only have their own culture but need to follow Japanese culture as well similar to the Meiji era and the Empire of Japan during WWII.

#61
Graphf said on December 19, 2012 at 7:13 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#62
kara said on December 19, 2012 at 7:14 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#63
Smorgasboard said on December 19, 2012 at 7:16 p.m.

A little less conversation, a little more action please.

#64
JimmyLoves said on December 19, 2012 at 7:20 p.m.

I think there are just too many fighter all out at the same time right now. VF5 is a good game, but it takes a lot of work to get good at. With a small player base, in an already over-saturated market: it was doomed to fail.

I feel bad for LA Akira, and I respect his efforts. Sometimes, things just don't take off...

TrueFightingGuru: that was one of the funniest posts I have read in a while. LMAO. I like how you describe yourself, like your looking for a craigslist hooker. Good luck with that!

#65
TheTHCGamer said on December 19, 2012 at 7:26 p.m.

VF5 (especially VF5FS) is the best fighting game this gen bar none but unfortunately most fighting game players here in the US care more for flash than substance. For example the MvC3 games. VF is more about gameplay and character balance instead of flash.

Also lets not forget about how great the game still holds up even though it was the first fighting game released on the PS3. The animation in VF5FS in my opinion is still the best of ANY 3D fighting game.

VF will probably never be as popular as other 3D fighting games like tekken because its just not as flashy and the characters just dont look over the top badass. That and instead of amazing CGI cut scenes VF puts an emphasis on the actual gameplay instead.

Its a shame that VF isnt that popular outside of japan however its never really been popular outside of japan in the first place so im not shocked that VF5FS isnt relevant anymore. Me peronally i could care less ive bought every version of VF5 released on console.

Also anyone who finds watching the matches boring are people who dont fully understand how to play the game. I watched almost every bit of the matches that were featured at EVO and enjoyed them all. Once youve spent quality time learning how to ACTUALLY play the game the matches are far from boring to watch.

Its common sense you appreciate something more when you have a better understanding of it. It has nothing to do with not enough support from people playing at tournies the game just doesnt have the appeal that other fighting games have. I could care less though because in my opinion VF5FS is the BEST fighting game this gen.

#66
TheMasterPlayer said on December 19, 2012 at 7:30 p.m.

Been reading the comments here.. And I'm sorry but I have to agree with illness690. The VF franchise from the very beginning has always been too technical for the average fighting game player (well maybe since VF3). And because of that not too many players want to invest their time in them since it really has a pretty steep learning curve in order for it to be played in a fun and competitive way. I've personally found the game boring because of it's lack of over the top moves, lack of in game special effects (ala tekken) and it's somehow awkward block button configuration. In short, it is not a game for casual fighting game players. And we all know that the majority of people who play games in general (not just fighting games) are casual game-players.

In another topic. Even with SFxT being a hit or miss with the fighting game community, It's still safe to say that out of all the gaming companies that make fighting games; Capcom really does know how to make a game fun and competitive since it's basically their games that the majority of us fighting game fans play and stick to.

In short, if the game isn't fun to play and it's hard to get into then it will inevitably die of support from the community. Plain and simple. So please, don't put all the blame on the players. Blame the game, maybe it's not the players' cup of tea that's the problem.

#67
TrueGamingGuru said on December 19, 2012 at 7:31 p.m.

@66 Well there is not alot of people that are willing to try a new game, accept stuff for what it is.
Even if you think part of my comment is funny, everything I said is what people should normaly be like instead of what the world is now.
It's sometimes better to represent yourself of what it takes to be a true passionate gamer, when no one has that passion.

#68
NoizyChild said on December 19, 2012 at 7:32 p.m.

And #67 is yet another example of what I was referring to earlier.

Stop trying to talk down about or blame other games for your game's lack of shine.

#69
soakrates said on December 19, 2012 at 7:40 p.m.

VF isn't quite dead yet. Here in NorCal we still get good numbers at gatherings and tourneys, and right now the VF community might be the most active 3D fighting game community in the area. Also, it's worth noting that Sega just announced the Sega Cup annual VF tournament today, so hopefully that will generate some more nationwide interest.

And VF isn't any more boring than anything else that's out there right now. Most people who say VF is boring haven't even seen what the game looks like when played at the top level. Truth be told, outside of a select few players, pretty much anyone who isn't in Japan is mid-tier at best, and low-to-mid-level play in just about every fighting game can be boring as hell to watch.

It's really not that hard to get into, either. The basics are pretty easy to grasp, and the more advanced stuff can be learned and added gradually. A solid handle on the basic mechanics and knowledge of bread and butter combos can get you pretty far in VF if your mind games are up to par. Also, VF5FS got rid of the multiple throw breaks that so many people found difficult about past installments.

As for why it's not popular outside of Japan, it's hard to pick a main reason, but I think Sega carries a big chunk of the blame for that. The VF series has never been very heavily promoted until now, and the game's reputation as being extremely difficult to learn hasn't helped very much either.

#70
LK said on December 19, 2012 at 7:43 p.m.

@TrueGamingGuru

Hey my man, are you planning on going into a career of stand-up comedy? I think I'll buy a ticket and see you perform live! It'll be the hypest moment ever!

#71
TheTHCGamer said on December 19, 2012 at 7:49 p.m.

@70 are you stupid how was i talking down about other games? Its true those games feature more flash than games like VF5FS. Lol you take it so personal Noizy when anyone says anything negative about MvC3 or SFxT. NoizyChild you have to be one of the most annoying posters ive seen on fighting game sites.

@68 wrong VF5FS can be enjoyed at any level of play you dont need to be an expert to enjoy it. People get this misconception that just because VF offers a lot of depth that your going to have to invest to much time to learn to enjoy it. Most if not all fighting games can be enjoyed at many different levels of play VF5FS is no different.

#72
king_e_dawg said on December 19, 2012 at 7:55 p.m.

@sokrates

Took the words right out of my mouth. The whole sentiment that the game is hard to get into is so misinterpreted. After all, it's three buttons. If you can do command normals in AE, you've got the start of a competent VF game; it's that simple. It's once you've got that competent game that the notorious depth starts to show.

And of course it's boring watching two people you've never heard of play at a low level. You're watching the wrong matches. When Fuudo and Chibita tore it up at the Final Showdown launch, it should have been a wake-up call to anyone considering picking the game up. That's what it looks like when the community allows a game to flourish.

#73
TheMasterPlayer said on December 19, 2012 at 8 p.m.

@73 TheTHCGamer.

Ahh.. no dude. Trust me I've played all VFs from I to V (except FS) and just like any other fighter, when played at the most basic beginner level, it's no fun at all. well maybe a little bit because of all the button mashing that goes on in the initial stages of the learning curve. But, it is just my opinion and observation that VF really is too technical and boring to be able to keep at it. And with all of the fighting games out right now, it's no coincidence that VF is near the bottom of the pile. It's never been the type of game to cater to the casual crowd. just like SF3S was for Capcom; That's why that title didn't do too well with the fighting game community.

#74
JimmyLoves said on December 19, 2012 at 8:13 p.m.

VF5FS is great game. If you are going to try out a 3D fighter, i would say this is the best one.

I'm not even a fan of 3D fighters, but i can say this is the best one i have played. Too bad it looks as though it's already dying...

#75
TheTHCGamer said on December 19, 2012 at 8:14 p.m.

@75 TheMasterPlayer

Believe me being to technical isnt the issue with the VF games in fact its crazy easy to get into if your a beginner. I would say its harder to get into games like tekken. VF characters have the basic pppk combo so its definitely the misconception of depth which doesnt mean technical

VF has the best yomi game of any fighter which is why its my favorite fighting game franchise. Once again you dont have to be a VF expert to enjoy the game but it offer a lot of depth if you want to take your skill to the next level. Segas for marketing are to blame for the lack of success for VF.

People find the characters bland and the lack of story modes doesnt help either. Sega isnt doing the little things to cater to the casual fighting game fanbase. Id also like to add i had a friend who never played fighting games yet loved playing VF from the beginning so there goes that argument that its not fun at a beginner level.

Believe me the VF games are LOT more ACCESSIBLE then you think. You should know that since supposedly youve been playing the franchise since the beginning like i have. People that also blame 3rd strike for being to techinical also forget the game wasnt that successful because it was around the time arcades started to die. On top of that people were getting burned out on all the SF games being released.

You cant just blame SF3's lack of success on being tecnical alone. Lets put it this way if SF3 was released instead of SF2 i think it wouldve been almost just as successful. there was more than one factor why SF3 wasnt as successful as it shouldve and couldve been.

#76
Malice said on December 19, 2012 at 8:15 p.m.

As long as there's online play, the game won't die. Hell, people were still playing VF5 on the 360 until Final Showdown came out. And at least on the east coast, people still come out to majors for it.

It sucks to see VF be dropped from WNF, but eventually it was going to happen with online being more convenient than commuting to Super Arcade each week and losing the people who were just playing the game until Tag 2 dropped in September.

Maybe Sega not waiting until forever to release Final Showdown to console would have helped, but it is what it is. However VF is alot of fun and very easy to get into, especially if you already have an understanding of how 3D fighting games work.

#77
Championship_Edition said on December 19, 2012 at 8:21 p.m.

The complexity and barrier to entry in VF5 seems overstated. While the game is technical and goes deep, it's relatively easy to grasp - much easier than Tekken in some ways.

The real problem IMO is that no game can gain traction in the west that isn't one of the big three - SF, Marvel, Tekken - because only those big three have a deep, established community on and offline that provides a home base. Now, I fully respect VirtuafighterDotCom! But that community can come off as niche, dense, and difficult to penetrate. I've felt for a while now that the real problem the FGC faces is that it's still fragmented and pulled apart between trying to preserve the offline arcade scene and figuring out what to do with the online and internet social scene.

Simply put, everybody knows where to go, if they want to figure out and find people for SF, Marvel, or Tekken. But the other games are all sort of grafted on to the big sites for those games, and/or tucked away on very specialized niche sites that don't always have the most open, welcoming culture. This is the kind of issue in which everyone shares a little piece of the blame. Players for not supporting their game. Other players for constantly sniping at and attacking everyone else's game. The general wide-ranging insecurity and e-peen waggling that goes on in the FGC is off-putting and damages smaller scenes and smaller games with the collateral damage. Disrespect and hostility towards online play and players who cannot afford to travel across a continent to play a game at the last arcade in America - thus preventing a sense of cohesion and commonality in the FGC. The biggest games can weather the troubles due to size and inertia in their communities.

@#78 - interesting point there. While Sega does deserve some blame for letting VF start to die before remembering it, one reason for Final Showdown's delay on consoles is that they didn't farm the port out to another team or developer. The core team at AM2 waited until development on the arcade version was fully complete, along with the first few updates, and ported the game themselves. To insure quality, performance, and stability of netcode. This actually took almost 2 years, according to reports I'd read.

#78
scytheavatar said on December 19, 2012 at 8:37 p.m.

Final Showdown died not because of the FGC, it died because it's a revision of a game that came out in 2007 and the age is extremely obvious. It's pretty ridiculous to blame the players when you should be asking Sega what they had been doing to the series for the past 5 years. They target the series extremely narrowly at their Japanese arcade going audience, what are the chances of the console players in the rest of the world sticking to the series if Sega does nothing but release updates only for the arcades?

#79
Lyn said on December 19, 2012 at 8:38 p.m.

You all write too much for me to read it all. :C

Sucks about VF though. Really cool game.

Why does anyone care if their favorite game isn't on streams?

I love Mario Kart.. I don't care if it's on streams.

#80
TheTHCGamer said on December 19, 2012 at 8:38 p.m.

@79 I agree and im going to be real even though virtuafighter.com is an informative site the community itself until up until the release of VF5FS hasnt been the most welcoming community. As for the netcode issue of the netcode i doubt it took them that long since VF5's netcode on the 360 was done pretty well.

I pretty much think they fine tuned VF5's netcode for VF5FS and in my opinion its the best netcode for a 3D fighter along with TTT2. I blame sega and no one else lots of people waiting so long for an VF5 update that some just gave up. They dont have a story mode for the characters in the game and other little things that casual fighting game fans look for.

Sega however did its best to make VF5FS more accessible so i do give them kudos for that because if they dumb down the game as much as they could. All i know is i cant wait till a VF6 is released and that includes every updated version that improves the previous version. Long live VF.

@81 I agree however streams help people get into fighting games and nintendo doesnt have to worry about mario Kart games selling well. Sega on the other hand needs all the sales they can get outside of asia/japan. Especially if we want to continue to see the VF games being released outside of japan/asia.

#81
TrueGamingGuru said on December 19, 2012 at 8:41 p.m.

@72 No

@79 These comments can really prove a point of whats going down with Fighting Games and FGC in general. The whole online stuff is also a big issue, from the disrespect and hostility towards online play, and attacking everyone else's game this is something that certain people must take action and find ways to improve online against certain people that are disrespectful even if it involves going against "the freedom of speech."

#82
illness690 said on December 19, 2012 at 8:42 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#83
Jaxon76 said on December 19, 2012 at 8:46 p.m.

I wouldn't blame the players or other games for this at all. The reason this game has no support is because Arcades themselves have been systematically eliminated across North America through various legislation over the last decade or 2. Mostly because of parents fearing kids being "exposed to drug dealers".

Virtua Fighter 1 and 2 had strong followings pre and early internet days easily, and VF3 had strong scenes in most major cities.

#84
NoizyChild said on December 19, 2012 at 8:47 p.m.

#82

"They don't have a story mode for the characters in the game and other little things that casual fighting game fans look for."

Neither do SF or Marvel, and they actually have scenes.

Maybe if you kinda come down off your elitist soapbox, you'd realize that, once again:

VIRTUA. FIGHTER. IS. NOT. POPULAR. ANYWHERE. BUT. JAPAN.

STOP. BLAMING. OTHER. GAMES. FOR. ITS. LACK. OF. SHINE.

#85
illness690 said on December 19, 2012 at 8:49 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#86
Kuai said on December 19, 2012 at 8:54 p.m.

maybe people just don't wanna play the game man

#87
TheTHCGamer said on December 19, 2012 at 9:02 p.m.

@NoizyChild grow up no ones saying those games are bad once again your jumping the gun and getting overly defensive. I own and enjoy both UMvC3 and SFIV. Theres nothing wrong with having a storylines or story modes. SFIV has cut scenes and endings which VF doesnt at all.

On top of that UMvC3 has an opening scene that even though isnt in depth as a storyline to it. The game is supers flashy which is great for the game because thats part of its allure no ones saying its a bad thing. What i am saying though is VF is more about gameplay and character balance even to a fault.

Noizy your just a CAPCOM fanboy troll and everyone knows it just check out the comment section in this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZJ7xm...
You might have some people fooled but truth is lots of people know your a whiny troll.

@87 and what exactly is Noizy saying? The more popular a game is the better it is? A game doesnt have to be popular for it to be enjoyable or for it to have a community even if its not as big as others. Tell me exactly Noizy how am i being an elitist? Keep defending the games you love Noizy even when people arent insulting them Lol keyboard hero.

#88
kdavis851 said on December 19, 2012 at 9:32 p.m.

@89

I don't think he's saying the game is bad because it isn't popular. He's just saying the game isn't popular, and there has to be a reason for it, that doesn't have anything to do with the competition, because the series has traditionally been an unpopular franchise. There has to be something about the franchise as a whole that has resulted in the lack of long term support.

#89
Exand said on December 19, 2012 at 9:35 p.m.

A game dies because less and less people play it.

Less and less people play it because the game is not a good game / doesn't have lasting appeal / there are better games / there are games with more people playing it.

But VF5 is a good game.
It has lasting appeal.
There are arguably better games.
There are definitely more people playing other fighters.

Now if we only had VF5 and SF4 there'd be a lot more people playing VF5. But there are the newest versions of SF, Marvel, Tekken, KoF, MK, SC, BB, PS4, VF, SkG, etc for people to choose from.

This is just fighting games cannibalizing each other and only the ones that are popular survive. With the amount of time needed to dedicate to a fighting game to get good at them, many people aren't going to spend the time on a game that has few players. That also means newcomers like SkG and PS4 have a tougher time at it than established fighters like SF.

Of course with VF, the series has been around for a long time. But the game has, imo, always been much too complex for your average gamer to pick up and learn right away compared to something like SF. That's not a knock on the community, that's a knock on the game. Of course dumbing down VF would castrate it of all the good things about the game, so it's just a sad fact that the game is relegated to niche status even among fighting games in the crowded market.

#90
masang said on December 19, 2012 at 9:39 p.m.

@ THCGamer
haha, nice video. funny how he called people out as angry elitists when that's what he sounded like.

forget about all of this though. i can see you like VF. it's not a popular game, but just enjoy it and don't get stirred up in the FGC. it's too bad the scene isn't big, or even existent, but that doesn't mean you can't just have fun. i don't understand what the big deal is in the FGC. everyone nowadays says the FG scene is so much better than it's ever been... sure, the monetary aspect, accessibility of information, and larger numbers; however, the FGC has just become mentally twisted and frustrated with all these arguments and politics. everyone just relax and play something. i mean seriously..?

#91
OhYouDontSayThat said on December 19, 2012 at 9:41 p.m.

wow. laakira sounds like an awesome dood

#92
niggardly said on December 19, 2012 at 10:30 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#93
omegamarth said on December 19, 2012 at 10:41 p.m.

This is a shame. Why? Because Virtua Fighter 5 is the best fighter this gen.

I would be supporting the community, and going to every tourney I could go to, if I lived near any, but that's what you get for living in the middle of nowhere.

It's sad, how VF5:FS is pretty much dead online. It didn't cost much, the gameplay is still better than Tekken Tag 2, DoA5, SC5, ect. The only reason people don't play it is because the characters are "Bland" and the gameplay is "Different", proving how much of scrubs so much of the FGC really is. They could have given it away for free, and these scrubs still would have never played it.

#94
anthonygamer said on December 19, 2012 at 10:42 p.m.

@89 NoizyChild, sounds like such a pussy in that video. LOL Can't handle buttslams? What a scrub.

#95
analogos said on December 19, 2012 at 10:46 p.m.
#96
illness690 said on December 19, 2012 at 10:48 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#97
NoizyChild said on December 19, 2012 at 10:53 p.m.

#89

You're indirectly talking down about other games.

You're basically implying that the reason VF isn't popular is because it doesn't "cater to casuals", or that it isn't "dumbed down". You're trying to make it seem like VF is "too hardcore" for people to get into, when that simply isn't the case.

The truth of the matter is that no matter how the competition makes their games, Virtua Fighter will never be popular outside of Japan. Period.

#90 basically laid it out for you.

#95 is also an example of what I'm talking about. Talking down about other people and games because nobody plays VF.

#98
VladDracul said on December 19, 2012 at 11:09 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#99
MAXIMUM_PANTS said on December 20, 2012 at 12:45 a.m.

GGs to LA Akira for doing everything he could to keep a game he loves alive.

The Ultrachen episodes that had him as a guest were great, he seems like a really cool guy.

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