TFA|Banana Ken has posted a blog about his experience with Super Battle Opera 2011. He talks about the issue that came up with him and teammate Hsien Chang where they originally had a spot for the tournament, but ended up playing a pre-tournament match to get a qualifying spot.
To many people, myself included, participating in SBO was the chance of a lifetime to represent the best the US has to offer. I was very happy to hear from many players that our team had the best chances of at least getting past the first round. I was very excited to see how far our skills can take us, even in such a brutal format like single-round, single-elimination teams like SBO. As a graduate student, I had to do work ahead of time, cancel meetings, and skip a couple day’s worth of courses to make the trip to Japan. I paid just over a thousand dollars for the ticket, and I separated another thousand to make sure I had enough for food, travel and other expenditures. We were ready to give our 100%.
Except we never got to try.
SBO (Tougeki) staff later apologized for what happened at the tournament, you can read their statement here.
Tip from Chauncy Talon and Rafael2487.
I can't tell if #1 is a troll or just stupid. This man payed $2,000 to be there and put off graduate school. If you cant understand the importance of that you're either still living with your parents or have never attended university.
as bad as it was for them, they still had a chance it was against kuwait, not exactly the strongest team there.
there's really not much of a difference if they went and got 2-0'd first round anyway. Perhaps if they won their round zero game they would have earnt the right to whine a little more with the whole 'what if' thing. Petty imo, mistakes happen. let it go.
tl;dr stop whining because you got blown up
@1I implore you to put your self in Jose and Hsien's place, and see if you feel the same way.
You shouldn't have to work for something you that you were already guaranteed. Not only did they get screwed out of a place they were already earned, they spent over a thousand dollars out of their own pocket to make it to this event. Also I'm sure that they were mentally not in the right state of mind to do their best. They also proved they were good enough by winning the qualifier. They deserved the spots they earned and they weren't even compensated for what happened which is not fair.
Looking at the bright side, Tougeki got blown up and exposed real hard from this so this will less likely to happen as people will be wary and be cautious. Team Hsien/Bananaken was given a chance to compensate for that and they didn't qualify.
There's nothing left to say now, SBO is over.
The damage is done, Tougeki reputation gets blown up.
Either USA can keep continuing to bitch and try to deflect the actual performance (no discussion on how they did in SBO?) or USA can reflect on their showings and level up some more to break this b*tch that is Tougeki SBO.
(Like I said last time about this tournament/scandal, that's not fair to say
'ok, turns out only 1 of you can compete and we made an oopsie, now fight to see who can stay!'
I mean, if your car can only fit 4, but you have 5, what do you do? Squeeze the 5th in!
if that's how SBO/Japanese tourneys want to play, stay away from 'em until they show some respect.
)
@ #1 There is a difference between travelling around the world knowing you have to qualify, and thinking you already qualified. They forked over a lot of time, money and effort just to attend. Not everyone has that kind of money to just throw around. And in sponsorship dollars, this situation = wasted money.
This situation is no different than a team in the NBA making it to the Playoffs then just before it starts, they are told they have to play a team that didn't even make it into the playoffs originally, to see who gets in.
From what I read, Daigo and Iyo didn't even qualify? I'm getting tired of this Daigo crouch riding. Yes he's a great player, and yes he deserves respect. But he needs to earn his spot. Everyone does it, he's always had to do it. Unless he's featured like some sort of exhibition, then he needs to work for it.
its true tht sbo messed up and so they owe hsien and b. ken an apology. which they did. they still got the ooportunity to prove themeselves nonetheless. if they couldnt even get out of tht alive than what difference does it make? sbo messed up but ultimately they lost. just let it go and move on.
@#1
I would have agreed with you before I had read the statement from Banana Ken himself. $2000 spent, canceling meetings and whatnot, he was bending over backwards to make it there just to get told that he doesn't have a place in a tournament he qualified for? Daigo, Mago, Tokido and all the other japanese and international players get treated with a degree of respect when they go to the US for tourneys. Why can't the japanese (more specifically SBO organizers) show the same sort of respect for US players?
@ #9 He isn't bitches, he's expressing what went down, and his experience. If you read it, he's very professional and words everything very respectfully. Who wouldn't be mad? I sure would. I bet most people if they were to write a blog would probably have more choice words than BananaKen.
@ #9 He isn't bitching, he's expressing what went down, and his experience. If you read it, he's very professional and words everything very respectfully. Who wouldn't be mad? I sure would. I bet most people if they were to write a blog would probably have more choice words than BananaKen.
I actually pity that they couldn't play in the actual round but rather made to play in round zero against team kuwait. That was such a fukin big mess by Tougeki. I get all the rage, the hardship of financing to go to this big event.
I just feel that if they feel they are confident of being good enough to warrant the expense they put up with to go there, surely another one game wouldn't matter to them? They can either continue to bit*ch some more and fish for some more pity or say f you to Tougeki, we'll blow you hard next year just watch out.
Since SBO, the focus has been fully on scandal. What about the performance of the teams?
I remember seeing a wideo of a guy introducing a homeless person with a master degree. In that history the homeless guy was promised a job in washington. He was smart and was promised the job, however, when he got there, the company said there was yet another interview. He was surprised since he left everything he had to get this amazing job, but he went through with it. Now he doesn't have a job, a house or even money to get back to his hometown, this was his fault for not being good enough or the company for not making it clear that the "guaranteed" job was not his yet? He suspect it was because of color they didn't accept him, I can see how that would be possible with a master degree.
But what is import here is that these are people that have their own problems and are trying their hardest to get something better, instead they end up frustrated and with no compensation whatsoever.
Of course I can see that banana ken was not looking for a job, but it's the same scenario.
I would like to see a statement from the team from Kuwait. They probably felt the same, even though they won the match, so it really isn't fair to pass off Hsien and Jose as "bitching."
Very Humble thoughts by Banana Ken (If thats the right word)
I hope when I scroll up I dont read a bunch of ignorant people shouting how bad of a country Japan is, and how bad the players @ Japan are cause that's stupid to assume from this.
I also give respect to Daigo for not fighting them, although of course you dont know why, its probably not cause of them wanting to give US a chance but maybe.
That sounds absolutely horrible for both of these players :/. Although I thought..if you won the SBO qualifiers you would get a free ticket to Japan, dont get why he had to pay 1k o-o. But im glad he had a nice stay in Japan and didnt regret
NvhA i have nothing else to say other than...you're terrible person if i were to know you in real life i sure as hell would avoid you by any chance not even starting talking to you, i bet you have no real friends you can trust a key of your car (bet you haven't even got a car) so they would give them safely back...i hope you'll get into the same situations bananaken got iwish you all the worst...
They didn't actually go home empty handed, no? They asked for financial compensation and was refused. Instead was given a chance to qualify, a round zero match against Team Kuwait.
Would the financing be ok then if the scandal didn't happen and they actually lost to Team Kuwait in Round 1?
Bananaken have the right to bitch, that I agree with and rightfully apologize. It just doesn't seem right for the fighting game to entirely and solely focus on that while simply ignoring the team performances as a whole.
Now, now kiddles no need for arguing but really this only refelcts bad on SBO seeing as they weren't professional enough to at least send one of there top guys to explain the situation instead of people who had little to no knowledge of the situation.
But he did mention something interesting in that team Taiwan could also have been the unlucky team to play in the extra qualifier instead of the other japanese team that qualified last. Also kind of bs that they were allowed to refuse like Daigo did.
quick fix: in my last paragraph I'm trying to say is that why not have the second japanese team who qualified last play them, why was team Taiwan the other choice another foreign team makes no sense.
Is there any merit to the rumour that Daigo's last minute change-of-mind to participate in SBO pushed the unlucky participants out of their qualifying spot due to preferential treatment? If so, it would require me to use language Ehubs won't allow. :)
Damn man, that's well written. Makes me think back to Flash Metroids post a while ago whining about how C. Viper sucked.
With that said, mistakes happen, but regardless, when you're the one on the receiving end it's so much harder to just shrug it off like 'Well, sh*t happens.'
Sucks that things got messed up, but honestly, I can't figure out why anyone would play in SBO anyway. Single round, single elimination is way too 'random', and a single mistake can mean you're out for good. It's too harsh and small stuff like character of opponent will mean everything, since you can end up fighting a tough matchup from the beginning, and really had no honest chance. And what kind of prestige lies in winning something like that anyway? Seems like having gotten lucky probably means a lot more than in any other tournament.
They got screwed no doubt about it, tougeki fcked up no doubt about it...but all the focus has been on the scandal. I'm not exactly trying to defend tougeki but people are making this bigger than they event, it isn't. It's not like they gave them malfunctioning sticks or something. And they may have got cheated out of a spot but 4 US teams went...and they all got eliminated like they do every year. It's not like fishy things don't happen in US tournies too (i hope no one forgot all the drama surrounding power up). People were on the tougeki hate train before all this anyways since because the US doesn't do well the format is "s****y".
@#6, you're an idiot. Whining because they got blown up? How about wasting two thousand dollars and a bunch of time? He basically paid all that money just to be in a qualifying match and that's clearly not what he went there for. And for the people saying they lost again Team Kuwait, do you even bother to consider the situation? How can anyone just stay calm and play a "qualifying match" after that crap happens? Some of you need to think before you type that trash.
Well it seems the Japanese fighting game community is raging more than us about this subject. (2ch is a huge mess atm) It's the SPO/Tougeki staff that blew it here not Japan, not Daigo or the Japanese fighting game community.
I used to think its all about luck, but it can't be a coincidence that the final consist of #1 & #2 Yang, #1 Viper and #1 Yun. These people are good at their respective characters as well as having the right combinations to counterpick whatever they had to face. Rather than relying on luck only, its all about minimizing error, making the least mistakes and taking advantage of every situation to the maximum.
Foreign teams have got more factors to take account into of course, such as the pressure of playing in a hostile, unfamiliar environment as well as the pressure from all the financing being put to partake in the competition.
Mistakes get made, and in a tourney where the only workable format requires exactly 2^n players per round (i.e. 32-16-8-4-2), they created an extra spot by adding an extra round. It's not as if they told anyone "no, go home, we're not letting you in". They said "sorry guys but because we have 1 more team than we planned for, 2 teams will have an extra round to even things out to 2^n again".
I'm not entirely sure what the difference is between paying $2000 to lose in round one and paying $2000 to lose in round zero is.
The only thing that would make a difference is if that thing about them getting bumped just to make room for Daigo is true. If THAT'S the case, then poor form Tougeki; put Daigo in Round Zero and make him work for it if he wants to enter at the last minute.
I feel bad for Banana Ken and his squad. I really do. :(
Well I think in the end it was better that it happen to the US team (let me finish) because more people are being made aware of this situation than if it happened to Kuwait or Taiwan were odds are would either fall on deaf ears or we would never know.
It might not be for this reason, but:
I respect Daigo for not wanting to dirty his hands in the matter.
SBO higher-ups are freaking stupid.
What difference would it have made if they played that team from Kuwait in the first round of the tournament? It was single elimination anyway. I'm not trying to sound like a dick outright stating it makes no difference, I would just like somebody to enlighten me.
Also everyone is allowed there opinion I don't see how insulting Posted by NvhA's opinion helps your own and at the same time he is responding with almost no hostility.
Disregard the "Posted by" part on my phone as I type this.
I agree with NvHA. Yes. It is very unfortunate something like this happened. But look.
If team U.S.A lost to team Kuwait, what makes you guys think they would have gotten past a single round?
You might even look at the battle between Kuwait and the U.S as an SBO match. Same thing. If the U.S lost their first match, it would be over. Same for everybody since it is single elimination.
Yes. The guys lost a lot of money. So.....let's say this mishap did not happen. Do you think team U.S.A would make it past more then one round?
I do not think so. The end result is pretty much the same. You don't get anything for losing in the first or second round whether it is official or not, far as I know.
I don't really get the whole "except we never got to try" thing. Yeah you got a chance. If you think you're good enough to win against some of the best players in the world at SBO, team Kuwait shouldn't pose much of a challenge, right? Right? ( I don't mean to slander team Kuwait. I haven't the slightest idea how good they are. Yet I doubt they measure up to the best of the best. )
One more match shouldn't be much of a problem if you have sights on winning the whole thing.
And if you don't think you would win.........well I dunno what you're doing, putting so much money into a trip to a video game tournament you do not think you would win.
The situation is stupid but for all intensive purposes they still competed in SBO. Even if it was a round 0 match, the played their game and they lost. Compensation is not needed. Maybe if other American players that got into the 32 man bracket were treated differently or had their matches streamed or something they could be upset.
Maybe if there was money on the line or something special for getting into the actual Round 1 of SBO then they'd have something super legit to complain about and compensation would be necessary. However just like them, the other American teams lost their first game, and were never seen nor heard from.
Banana Ken and Hsien both should be upset SBO messed up and they didn't get into the top 32, Yes. They should however in no way be asking for compensation as they still had an equal chance to get the what 100,000 Yen prize which only one team gets. If they were denied the chance to compete period that's another story but they weren't.
If Banana Ken and Hsien go there and lose in the first round to the Kuwait team and not round zero do they deserve compensation? Was their trip a waste of time because they didn't get to face Japanese teams? Where do you draw the line?
Again SBO is all wrong, they are a BS tournament, always have been, and what not but asking for compensation for your trip is just silly.
It's a shame that nobody is talking about WHY this whole thing happened. Daigo's team never qualified, and they knew they would get more viewers (more $) if Daigo was there, so they got rid of a foreign team in order to make room at the last minute.
Just because they lost against Kuwait doesn't mean they didn't have a shot of at least getting out of the first round without the scandal. I don't know about you guys but just the thought that I might have wasted thousands of dollars would be enough to f with my head. Add to that the pressure they felt must have quadrupled and they must have also felt disrespected and angry at the same time too. Also It's not as simple as they lost to Kuwait so they would have lost to any other team too.
He had every opportunity to win this tournament, just as any other competitor. A loss is a loss, it doesn't matter whether it happened in round zero that he never expected to play, or the semifinals. He would have a legitimate case if it were a malfunction, or something non-play related got him eliminated from the tournament, but it wasn't. He still lost a fair match against a fellow competitor.
I don't blame him though. He doesn't have much to lose by trying to shake out $1000 in travel fees from the SBO staff.
I have to agree w/ several of the other posters here. Losing in R1 and losing in R0 is the same thing. Lets not kid ourselves here. They got to participate. You had the cost of a flight/expenses either way. If they would have had them just leave and not play at all, then you have a real claim. #37 nailed it.
I'm not saying the Bananaken and Hsien shouldn't be upset; obviously they got the crappy end of the stick. I'm just confused as to why people here seem to think that Tougeki did this just to screw them. It was a mistake. Yes, someone should get in trouble for it but refunding $2000 isn't going to happen and you should all know that.
What SHOULD happen, and what would be a classy move, would be if Tougeki tells Hsien and Bananaken that they automatically qualify for next year and that they'll pay for next year's flights. THAT, I can MAYBE see happening.
The whole "we werent in the right mindset after so much misadventure" tone we get from a few comments are vastled exagerated .
The organisators blew it , we all get that and agree with it . Over
But the rest ? SBO didnt became suddenly harsh with direct eliminations and teams . You dont see others place b*tching about EVo needed to change format for the comfort of foreigners .
You either accept it , or you dont .. If the thing bores everyone it will die on its own just fine . After years of complaints about the format its still there for a reason .
What would be the point of it being an evo redux on a local scale ?
Anyway back to the whole " they werent in the mindset to play properly" . Everyone probably got stuff going on in their life and dont bring it as some excuse .
The organisator blew it , but they had a chance to still try for it . I can't blame the guys , but they could still refuse , and as mentioned it's unlikely the outcome would have been different
WTF is wrong with anyone who's actually saying "well if they lost to Kuwait's team, they don't deserve to be there in the first place".
You ignorant scrubs, Kuwait actually has a very solid team and players like NOX2 have been winning vs Japan's best (including Daigo) in the arcades before the event.
SBO screwed up big time, both teams deserved to be in the tournament, going though all the trouble of qualifying and traveling to Japan to get treated like this? Shame on them, I hope this stupid event dies and God's Garden takes it's place as Japan's most important tournament.
Expenses weren't wasted. They still got to eat the food they bought, they still got their plane flights to Japan. They even still got to be in SBO. The only thing that changed was that they fought an extra round, in which they lost. I sympathize with them since it's not fair this happened to them instead of another team, but the American "something bad happened so that means someone owes me money" attitude is just not right.
Hell, I even support them ASKING whether the organizers will compensate them as a way of saying "sorry you had an extra round you didn't expect". But this thing about them not even getting to compete is bull. So what was their plan? Win SBO by being able to beat anyone but Kuwait? Where's the competitive spirit? Where's the belief that they should be able to beat anyone in order to be champion? Why is there an underlying "putting us against Kuwait isn't fair, how were we supposed to win against Kuwait" defeatism in that "we never got to try" comment?
As I said, it's still unfair that THEY were expected to clear this extra hurdle and not anyone else (aside from Kuwait themselves), since plenty of Japanese teams could've been put in Round Zero and they wouldn't have been thousands of miles from home if they lost, but if you act like being put up against Kuwait left you with no chance to win, then you might be better served by simply being better than Kuwait.
@37 and @56 and @62
I agree. They did get to participate. Round one and round zero, what's the difference???
I'm not trying to call out Banana Ken, but his blog entry seems to blow things out of proportions. He blatantly lied and exaggerated the situation when he said: "Except we never got to try."
What the hell does he mean he and Hsien "never got to try"? They did get a shot, but the thing was that we lost to Team Kuwait. He contradicts himself when he says that he and Hsien "never got to try," but then goes on to talk about the Round Zero match against Team Kuwait.
I like how people are adding a round zero when he never said those exact words. Thing is basically you qualified you deserve to play in the main tourney not you still have to play to get in that does mess you up mentally.
Also again why the foreign teams that's just dumb.
What the hell with ''We never got the chance to try'' ?!
They played round zero and lost to Kuwait !! What else do they need to justify ?!
They would've been blown up in round 1 anyways, really there is absolutely no difference !!
They had ZERO and I mean ZERO chance of getting to round 2, let alone winning the whole thing, so who cares anyways !!
Yess it sucks, but shiiet happens !! Now stop crying and take it like a lessons of life !!
I dont see the $2000 dollar mean anything, the team should very well known before what could happen knowing the single elimination format anyway to justify of being there in the first place, remember it is always their own decision to make, they were given a chance to compete and lost, just like the SBO single elimination is, nothing to it. I think instead of making this scandal a big thing, they should focus on discussing their match with Kuwait, how they can do better, what mistakes they made, fully disect the match to better themselves and improve their game. If you were to ask me whould I have participated, I would say no because $2000 is too much for a single elimination tournament, but if I decided to participate knowing the harsh rules, I wouldnt think back because I already made the decision.
Bad tournament bad experience. Bad tournament bad experience... Bad tournament bad experience.
to all who says that they have another qualifying chance and they blow it up! u guys r fckng retarded idiots!
team hsien/banana and kuwait is SUPPOSED to have a GUARANTEED SPOT already in the bracket! but SBO messed up big time organizing the team list and bracket by adding 2 more teams for a last pre-qual tourny for SBO which btw team daigo/iyo and shiro/neurosis! instead that they disqualify the 2 jap teams who were the last qualifier entrants they removed 2 foreign teams instead which is fkcd up! as on banana ken's story both party and kuwait are legit on the tourny and SBO make false excuses about team kuwait and giving both team stupid ultimatum that they have to fight for the spot! even me on hsien/banana ken or even team kuwait shoes i will be demoralize from all this confusion and concern about why the hell did i pay for all this expenses, call off from work/school, fly half the world, for what... a last spot pre-qual match!?!?!?!
the argument is not about how they got blown up, how they disappoint expectation, or fail for the last pre-qual spot, its about SBO legitimately fck/screw/rip/mess them up!
idk why SBO didnt eliminate or disqualify the last 2 entrant teams instead kicking out 2 foreign teams instead, why? bcuz its daigo/iyo and shiro/neurosis? bcuz they r japanese? speculations anyone?
lastly... F U C K SBO!!! single elimination, ppv stream, bad management, (maybe racist lol), heard a lot of people paid $20 for a sh!tty stream, 32 team brackets and half of the roster wasnt streamed, there were mostly nothing on the stream just showing the stage or audience, players did show high level skills but it was too short due to single elimination, fnck SBO < other world tourny events + Level-Up, Team Spooky, IPlayWinner, etc... nuff' said!
I feel bad for him if they had a top seed (don't know if they have seeds) but could receive a bye and that fixes alot right there someone gets alittle advantage but whatever I can see how he spent alot of loot too but also the fact of the matter stands he lost to not be in he was given the opportunity and blew it they lost to the Kuwait team so they weren't bout to go that dang far Not trying to knock them they qualified too I'm sure they got skills
I feel bad about the situation. But they could have played Team Kuwait in round 1 just as easily. Round 1- Round 0, they still got to play.
And the "Shake-Down" for travel expenses is some silly $hit. Had they won Round 0 would they have been asking for money? Doubt it.
SBO screwed up Big Time! We all see that. But these guys still had a chance to play. Still had a chance to advance. You may as well just say they did compete and lost to a better team in the first round.
Why do i have a feeling that the next time JP players come here they're not gonna make it back to japan alive lololol.
SBO screwed up....but everyone acts like they did it on purpose like they were trying to troll Bananaken/Hsien. I'm just waiting for people to start blaming daigo for this or something.
Nah, you guys that are saying that "sh1t happens" or "well he and his teammate could've won against Team Kuwait" or "Americans won't win anyway" don't get it. This means if they were willing to bend the rules to either accommodate Japanese stars or cover up their error, then it is likely that there would be NO other winner than a Japanese team. If they could say "your qualifier doesn't count, please fight again", they can also say "our star player was having technical difficulties so that round you won didn't count. please fight him again" or something similar.
that was the problem even if bananaken couldn't put it into words while it was happening. i mean, if you know something dirty is happening to you, especially after you sacrificed out of pocket and got the support and well-wishing from friends and family, then it would be amazing for ANYONE to fight unshaken unless they were already expecting foul play. SBO is supposed to be for the best of the best;true skill versus true skill. Any corruption or laziness out of the staff at that level is unacceptable and I'm sure Tougeki doesn't ever want to be thought of as an unfair or dirty organization. i hope for everyone involved in this that things can be corrected and compensated for and that those wronged can get stronger from this experience and move on, leaving this sour note in 2011.
Seeing as not many people know how good team Kuwait is - look up nox2 (http://www.youtube.com/supernox2) on youtube. He has matches between Daigo when he flew to Kuwait to play as a special guest over there. I believe they made it to the quarter finals at SBO, so no they were not random scrubs if anyone is going to say that. And 2. they're just the better team.
But long story short, it was SBO that should have done something to accommodate when it was their mistake in the first place.
f-ck SBO.
And to the fcktards saying that losing R0 is the same as losing to R1, fu.
How do you expect BananaKen and Hsien plus team Kuwait to play to their best in a single elimnation format when you're f-cking told 10 minutes (or less) that you won't be able to compete in the tournament itself? I can only imagine the stress and emotions these players had to go through in a foreign land with the barrier language at all trying to get reason why they're being screwed over by this tournament.
To BananaKen and Hsien: Mad props to you guys. With the money that you guys invested, if it were me, I would have flipped chairs all over the venue. $2000+ is not cheap and the time that you had to invest over there cannot be brought back.
F-ck SBO. I'd say boycott that sh-t anyway.
When I first heard about this whole thing, I didn't know what to think or feel, especially because I saw the report minutes after it was happening and everyone's first reaction was to accuse Planet Zero of faking an SBO spot or whatever. Now there seems to be no reason to believe that PZ was guilty of any dishonesty. I think it's POSSIBLE that it was all PZ's fault. I never heard anything about them having a qualifier until after it happened, whereas the other US qualifiers were well publicized. Also, why would PZ's team be forced into this rather than any other team? Gotta assume, though, that this was all SBO's fault as the evidence points in that direction at this point.
Once I was pretty convinced it was solely SBO that was in the wrong, I did feel very badly for team PZ, but I also shared some of the "what difference does it really make whether you lost in round 0 or round 1?" sentiments. After all, they still got to play, I assume on the big stage, against another team that rightly qualified. The only shady thing to me was why did two foreign teams have to go through this?
Having read BananaKen's post, I now am completely on his side. Really hope we aren't done hearing from SBO as the whole thing was just shameful. It's precisely BECAUSE BananaKen wrote so much about his emotions that I realize how horrible this situation was. He didn't overreact or blow anything out of proportion in my opinion. Participating in SBO is a dream for many of us. A very distant - literally - dream for most. If I was told on the way to the tournament that I didn't have a spot, I would struggle not to melt down, and there's no way I could play my best in a "round zero" game.
A couple of important questions:
1. Did Daigo and Iyo actually have to win a last chance tourney to qualify? If not, I can't imagine that their inclusion was not the source of this whole misunderstanding. Were their two last chance tourneys or what? Why wouldn't a last chance team be the natural choice for an emergency round 0 game as they basically had to play a bunch of "round zero" games already that day?
2. Did the Kuwait team speak English or Japanese well enough to deal with all of this BS? If SBO is going to invite foreign teams, I think it's their responsibility to provide proper interpreters to insure rule clarity, comfort, etc.
I feel terrible for team PZ. I surprised by how "unofficial" the US qualifiers seemed (e.g., no guidance on a team tourney vs. two individual tourneys). After this, I agree with those who question how much we worship SBO as THE non-EVO tournament.
No doubt. I feel for Banana Ken. He and Chang were screwed because SBO couldn't hire intelligent people to run their event. SBO, at the very least, should reimburse BKen and Chang some of their airfare because going to Japan is not cheap. All SBO did was apologize and you know words don't worth anything. It's not even close to the 2k (and the time invested to practice and such) they had to spend to find out their spot was an error. Until BKen and Chang are reimburse with something (other than an apology), SBO will be known as a F-ed up event.
This sounds like typical Japanese Big-business behavior to me. Removing links for the apology letter pretty much says that they are trying to save face. Look how long it took PSN subscribers to find out that there info was leaked. Not participating in SBO next year wont be the end of the world. Their are Countries choose to not participate in the Olympics for one reason or another and life still goes on. We have so many well run tournaments in the US, not to mention EVO in Japan.
It's clearly obvious the Banana Ken values the opportunity to go to Japan to participate in SBO over the money/schooling or else he wouldn't have went. He is going there knowing he will not get through round 2 at best so why are people saying oh no he lost lots of money and school time because of this when he clearly values SBO more? It's not like he didn't get a chance to play on the big stage which is basically what it's all about right? Because we all know that he isn't going to win it or get past round 2 so he should have been prepared to leave when he lost without making such a fuss. The people here on eventhubs are having a bigger cry then him when they have no right if Banana Ken isn't even complaining.
To all the "SBO EXPOSED, REP DOWN" bs, do you really think the japanese care if Americans come? Tbh I would think that the Japanese wouldn't mind either way since it doesn't affect anything since they'll all be knocked out first round, just saying.
@FADCTAUNT then how come Justin Wong or any of the other well know players didn't qualify. BKen and company earned the spots they got SBO tournament organizers messed up by making them play another qualifying match when it was to their understanding that they were to play a round 1 match.
Few more things...
1. BananaKen didn't have every opportunity to win the tournament because to say that is to ignore the psychological effects of the drama. It's easy to sit here and say, "You gotta put that behind you and play your best anyway - it's a tournament, it's gonna be stressful." But this is far beyond that. Being told on the way to the event that you had no spot, in light of PZ's recent issues (which I know nothing about by have inferred involve bogus SBO spots), would be a nightmare. What if SBO told a foreign player a couple of hours before the event that they'd recent word his mother had just died, but then half an hour later, it was revealed to have been a mistake? Would you say that player had just as much of a chance to win or that SBO had delivered the tournament experience he expected when he flew across the world on his own dime?
2. SBO is bunk for international players. You'd have to go several times for the time change/culture shock/pressure not to pretty much ruin your chances in a one game single elim tourney. We are NOT as far behind Japan in SF4 as the SBO results suggest. Look at what Latif and others did when a bunch of their guys had to travel here. Many of their top players struggled against or fell to our players. Some of the best Asian players (Neurosis and Gackt) didn't even make it out of pools even though they had to lose 4x as many games as our players did before being bounced. It's really tough to win abroad. Just because Daigo, the ORIGINAL and probably the most experienced international tournament player in history, has won EVO a few times doesn't mean it's not the exception.
@ #6
Daigo himself has said that he felt there was some seriously stiff competition in Kuwait. They made it to Top 16 or Top 8 (can't remember which), so their loss is nothing to shake a stick at.
The fact of the matter is the SBO staff shouldn't let things like this happen. And then to dance around the issue when the players they screwed and the community at large begins asking questions just makes it worse. They had a last minute qualifier less than 2 weeks before for one more team to get in (suspiciously enough, Daigo is on that team), and that was the last team to qualify. And then Daigo gets to REFUSE to play them to qualify? F--K THAT. His team was the last to qualify, he should have gotten dropped. Period. SBO screwed over Hsien Chang and Banana Ken got screwed out of their spot and nearly $2000 a piece with no semblance of explanation, or even reimbursement. SBO owes them and the rest of America that much.
this was some BS this sucks they qualify but they didnt let them in SBO and had to play another team now like bananaken said he wouldnt mind if he lost to them if they was in SBO but they wasnt why should they have to play that match and I know I wouldnt be in the right state of mind to play a quick sf match man SBO needs to change
lol he hits u guys with the weak a$$ sob story about him being a graduate student and spending $2000 to make it japan and u guys fell for it. bunch of suckers.....stay free banana ken and stay in school lol
@ # Everyone saying that because they lost against Kuwait, they wouldn't have got anywhere anyway:
Did you COMPLETELY ignore the part that they were so distraught with their no-winners situation, that they played a lot worse than normal?
Not only that, but different players play better/worse against different people - there's no telling how far they could have gone.
Man...that's a shame.
I feel sorry for this team.
There's no amount of apologies that could smooth out this sort of situation in what is supposed to be a professional event.
And the fiasco with the website FAQ/apology...!?...man...that is just out right rude to assume you would just drop everything that just happened and not look further into the real question...why?
They know they faarked up...big time...but hiding the reasons why...and then sending you on your way with the "result" that you didn't qualify!?...so disrespectful and dishonest.
If I knew BananaKen...I'd buy him a drink.
@87
'We are not as far behind Japan in SF4' is a bit of a stretch, just because Latif came in second in EVO this year?
I believe many people consider godsgarden the best Sf4 tournament, and it features exceptional skill levels above any American tournaments or EVO. If you want to look at the skill level of the overall community between japn or US, just watch pro japanese players play online streamed from Topanga TV, the amount of random pros online in Japan are very high level, and these japanese pros loses to them quiet often. Compare that to America xbox online? different story. So its safe to safe japan's high level players and casual players outweighs American players.
@Poe22222(responding to some of your questions).A couple of important questions:
1. Did Daigo and Iyo actually have to win a last chance tourney to qualify?
Actually Daigo beat Shinchan GamerBee and RB, and beat MOV to qualify for SBO. Some notable players in the pre-qualifiers included KIM1234, Ryan Hart, Poongko.
2. Did the Kuwait team speak English or Japanese well enough to deal with all of this BS? If SBO is going to invite foreign teams, I think it's their responsibility to provide proper interpreters to insure rule clarity, comfort, etc.
There were numerous Kuwaiti players, some of them very fluent in English as indicated by their forums explaining their training in Japan(some of them were part of the players that accommodated Daigo on his previous trip. Daigo is returning to Kuwait next month): http://whitetowerq8.com/forums/showth...
As far as them agreeing to play against Team USA, I have no clue why;they haven't reported on that yet. Kudos to Kuwait though to go past round 1. They only had one team allowed for SBO and they made it far. As far as the boycott and what not people are pushing for;that would only matter here in the US but it will actually give more spots for international countries to have more representations. I believe only the U.S out of all international countries were given more than a spot. I kind of answered some of your questions on a fly(don't mind typos)
Sounds very salty and trying to make excuses just cause bannana ken loss. You take a chance whenever you go oversee's and put out money for a VIDEO GAME. Anyone worth their salt should know the possibility is DO OR DIE and be ready for anything.
Seems like butthurt to me.
All this nonsensical talk about losing motivation because they got screwed out of competing is stupid. They STILL had the chance to get in.
Team Kuwait just got screwed out of their "guaranteed spot" as much as they did, and yet they still advanced even past the 1st round.
As mentioned several times before, 1) SBO is lame. 2) They DID compete. 3) BKen has the right to complain about HIS personal experience.
As someone mentioned earlier, shyte happens all the time, do you cry about it or do you do something about it. (In this case, take out the comptetion).
In the end, yes SBO messed up, but the rest of his post sounds more like an excuse as to why they didn't beat Kuwait on their first round. Yes, first round, because they did compete.
And all this Japan hate makes me laugh yet you still play their product. If you're going to boycott, just stop playing their games. Simple as that. If you can't... then stop your B*TCHING and threats.
Oh and to add... what kind of fighting mentality is to to get discouraged when crap happens. Winners always come up on top through diversity. Even before he flew there his mentatity was just to get out of round 1 instead of winning it all... so he already should have known he was losing money. He still had fun (read the end of the post), that's all there is to it.
Everyone is making solid points. But seriously USA? Kuwait should of been FREE. A warm up match at that. I love our players but we weren't going past the 1st round to begin with.
Fact is, BK and Hsien did NOT get to participate in the tournament. They were pretty much cornered into a qualifying match for a tournament that they had already qualified for legitimately. Their names and pictures were in the official Tougeki handbook. Their team was in the brackets. Meanwhile, SBO sneak 2 more teams into the brackets (which "coincidentally" contain 4 popular Japanese players) and tried to force BK and Hsien to forfeit which is BS. They actually gave Daigo/Iyo and Team Taiwan the option to forfeit BK/Hsien! I can't believe there are so many people on this site defending this type of bullsh!t. BK, Hsien and team Kuwait all have a right to be upset at their mistreatment by SBO staff. There is no legit justification for their actions.
The bottom line is the SBO organizers screwed up BIG TIME! I would be furious too if I were in the same situation as bananaken and his Hsien.
I wonder if this all have something to do with Daigo/Iyo's team having qualified at the LAST MINUTE for sbo. I mean think about it. It what, weeks before SBO bananaken and hsien qualified for the tournament. Now, its probable to assume that their team was already part of the 32-team limit for SBO. And all is A-ok up until Daigo/Iyo made the last minute decision to participate and eventually qualify for SBO (which to this point, I presume would make them the 33rd team, hence they should not have been given a spot in the first place!). Hence the organizers had to make up some BS about a "pre-qualifying match for SBO to try and "squeeze DAIGO/IYO in. Here comes the BIG question though, why did they choose one of the teams for US instead of one of their own (japan) teams to play against each other?
One could only speculate...
That is why SBO is a complete and utter trash! (pardon my french!)
typo fix: no "his" before Hsien; It was weeks before...
Whether or not they were going to lose in single elimination or get past 1st round is not the point.
The issue at hand is that they had to "qualify again" to actually participate in SBO even though they had already qualified.
Due to some (assumptions being made here) supposed favoritism 2 teams have been sneaked in and USA/Kuwait got the short end of the stick. Whether or not they were chosen at random or on purpose for the teams that had to re-qualify, we'll never know. What I do know is that these kinds of things shouldn't happen especially when people travel halfway across the world to be a part of something as glorious as SBO.
Yes the chance was given to them, but that chance should have already been there. If i was in BK's situation i would've been furious, although as a sportsman I would've dropped it right away and done my best to earn my spot again and prove my worth. Always learned that you leave some emotions off the court and focus on the game. I believe the same applies to video games.
@NvhA
Who is deflecting, what is being deflected, and how is it being deflected? The scandal and the actual tournament play are two completely separate issues. Everyone knows what happened in the actual tournament. That's not what they're talking about. No one said that they were going to win had they not been screwed. They just said that they had been screwed.
Also, I really do want someone to answer my first three questions. They weren't rhetorical. Whether it be NvhA or someone who shares his viewpoint, I don't mind. Just please explain to me who is deflecting, what is being deflected, and how is it being deflected.
@the master player..this isnt a daigo/iyo think i know everyone wants to play conspiracy theorist but the qualifier was open to many people and daigo/iyo had to qualify just like everyone else there's always last chance qualifiers for every game. BB had a Last chance qual with some big names as well so its not out of the norm.
I only scanned the comments here, I just want to say.
KUWAIT=NOT FREE!
Nox2 is widely considered the best Guy player in the world, and really shouldnt be overlooked at all. But I guess things like this are pointless to bring up 'cause people will always call top players free no matter what.
@ 113
lol how is Nox2 "widely considered the best Guy player in the world"? Because he beat Daigo? Who else has he beat? Does he regularly face top competition and win? No. I'd say Tsukimiya is better than him, he's faced alot of top guys and won. Hell I'd even say Combofiend has a better Guy.
What alot of you forget to mention is that Daigo and Iyo never qualified to get into the tournament. Tougeki wanted Daigo to be in the tournament so bad that they gave him and Iyo a spot.
Banana Ken and Hsien had already won the spot so couldnt Tougeki only hold 1 last chance qualifier to fit in Hsien and Banana Ken?
The bottom line is Tougeki screwed over the Americans (and the Kuwait team) to get Daigo a spot. Many of you saying "Oh well they should of been ready to play any one for that spot," or "they lost to some random Kuwait team" are idiots and show how many scrubs actually on Eventhubs. The random Kuwait team made it to quarter finales and bearly lost to Daigos team and Banana Ken and Hsien had already won the spot, were on the bracket, and had bios up on the tougeki website. That spot was theirs and Tougeki took that away from them.
Only good thing that came out of this is that Tougeki has been put on blast and lost alot of credibility. Hopefully next year the Tournament is better.
Here's my take:
SBO didn't really eff up at all. Use your heads for a second and imagine you were running the tournament. SBO did exactly what any tournament organizer would do; they just did a bad job at it.
Daigo is basically the Michael Jordon of fighting games, you can love him or hate him, but the fact is; when he is in the tournament it helps to validate it; brings viewers; and ups the competition level. There really isn't an argument here, just go any of his replays on youtube and compare viewing numbers to other big SF4 players.
So:
If Daigo wants in, you have to figure out how to make room for him. Easiest way, just make some of the foreign players; unknown in Japan; have a playoff.
I am sure if it was someone like Justin Wong, who japanese players have actually heard of, he wouldn't of had to be in the playoff. They chose no name players whom they thought had no chance of winning anyways. This way they can always say - we made a mistake, but these guys had no chance anyways.
It does really suck for Bananaken and Hsien; but that how it goes sometimes. This isn't limited to just fighting games or even games in general.
If Bananaken or Hsien had beaten Daigo in the exhibition, then SBO would probably be kissing their butts. Instead, with them losing so badly; it only helps the SBO organizers justify their unethical decision.
Unfortunately everyone has to start somewhere. Hopefully they can get better at this game, get a strong reputation, beat the top Japanese players; and this won't happen anymore. Then they could actually talk trash about SBO and people would listen.
its funny how he talks like he went there to just pass first round, so he went half way around the world to lose in the second round? still would of cost him the same thing to go there and lose, losing in the pre game to get into the tourny is no different then losing first round, sure he could say he was in it... but besides that nothing would of changed... soo this crying about having to many teams, local's always come first in anything and everything, your not going to kick one of your own people out to let some foreigner in, they had a chance to get in and if they would of won they wouldn't be crying about it now. but they lost so maybe its time to get over it?
you remember that girl that gave you the impression that she was gonna put out, but then didn't? imagine if you paid $2,000 and flew halfway around the world for that girl first.
@121 umad:
You got it all wrong. You want to compare this to football?
Bananaken is like the backup punter on the cowboys. He was guaranteed a spot on the team because Tony Romo (star QB) was holding out on playing due to contract negotiations. Bananken bought a new house, new car, etc.. because he was now on the team. UH OH: Then at the last second Romo says he wants to play. So the cowboys now make Bananaken have a playoff for the punter position so they can make room for Romo. Bananaken loses the playoff and is out of a job. He also can't pay his mortgage etc...Is it unfair because he was "guaranteed" a spot? Sure it is. It's called real life and it happens all the time.
If and when bananaken gets better this type of stuff won't happen. In his daydream world, he wins the playoff with Kuwait; then wins SBO. In the real world; he loses just like the SBO organizers thought he would. It's sad, but the simple solution is get better.
I don't see how anyone can see this as BananaKen bitching or that they somehow weren't good enough to begin with.
Also, the analogy that quite a few people have used of someone thinking they're getting a job and then find out they aren't after uprooting their entire life doesn't make the situation right, nor does it suddenly make their frustration moot (it's also far too extreme of an example, it's not like he went bankrupt from the trip and he mentions in the same blog that he did enjoy the trip - just not the tournament).
I'm surprised BananaKen was able to give that measured of a response. I'd still be flipping tables.
They shouldn't have had to play a "Zero Round" or "Qualifying Round" or whatever people would like it to be called. They had already qualified. This whole idea of "well if they were good enough--" stop with that.
They earned their spot. Whether they would have gotten past the first round or not, no one will ever know now because, well... they never got to play the first round. (Thus, they "didn't even got to try." Come on now, not that hard to deduce.)
None of the other 30-something teams that were there were forced to play an extra qualifying round. So yes, it was extremely unfair to the two teams involved, and if it had been any other team it would have been just as ridiculous a thing to do.
That said, they goofed, fine. I'm certain they (Hsien/BananaKen) would have been much less agitated if they'd goofed and handled it better, but Tougeki goofed and didn't handle it well at all, apparently. At the very least, compensate them for making the mistake. It's just... common courtesy, especially if you're going to cause such a major inconvenience to international players before they even get in the actual tourney.
A few "we're sorry" quips and a letter that was apparently hidden on the site aren't going to cut it.
Personally? I'm glad I wasn't really invested in it. The event just honestly seemed like a joke all around, from this controversy all the way down to the way streaming was handled. It was a mess.
@#118 Where is everyone getting the idea that Daigo/Iyo just got a spot? They qualified via last chance...ryan hart, poongko and gamerbee are some of the people that were in that qualifier. It seems no one knows how SBO works then if people are unaware of the last chance qualifying.
You guys are awesome. Did they get to compete, all the technical jackasses will say yes since they had to compete to get into the bracket against Kuwait. Wait...each team from each country did that already in their own country...
How does that not make sense to anyone? Some people had no faith in them but you never know if they played against another team they could have possibly won against them. But we'll never know because they were never put into the actual tournament bracket, just a written in bracket.
The only way I could agree to the way this turned out is if they were already scheduled to play against Kuwait right off the bat. Otherwise this is a "You'll never know" situation.
Would they have lost to Kuwait if they played them later on? Probably. Could they have made it to round 2 of the tournament? Because of the screw up, you'll never know.
@ Would they have lost to Kuwait if they played them later on? Probably. Could they have made it to round 2 of the tournament? Because of the screw up, you'll never know.
who cares no prize for getting knocked out second round. they went half way around the world knowing they wouldn't win why do you think players like Ricky and Justin "tried so hard to go" they knew what would happen... and didn't want to deal with going and losing again... he got to enjoy his trip there and if he went there just to go and lose in round one of sbo then maybe he needs to rethink why he went.
everyone take notes...
1. the last "2" SBO per-qualifier tourny entrants and winners:
team daigo/iyo
team neurosis/shiro
2. team usa banana ken/hsien and team kuwait are way ahead got a legitimately confirmed spot on the 32 team bracket in SBO
3. u pay traveling expenses, call off for work/school, fly half the world, 10min before tourny event organizers/planners tell u r not qualified, and last minute negotiation SBO gave an ultimatum play or no play for last spot qualifier!
even on how much prepared u r, from all this mixed emotion on this situation, idk how i can perform and compete well in this condition! (read banana ken's expression)
4. last spot pre-qual match... BK and hsien lost to team kuwait! (team kuwait legit good pro players nuff said)
5. now the fact that if they didnt played team kuwait from that bullsh*t situaiton and condition and playing on the guaranteed spot on the 32 team bracket instead, would u think there will be a different outcome!?!?!?
its not about getting blown up or losing first round, everything can change or have different outcome may occur, not just for team usa and kuwait but for all teams, if all this BS drama didnt happen at first place, or "EVEN IF AS AN EXAMPLE" this tourny is a double elimination!?!?!
6. know which and what enlargement!
7. lastly f*ck SBO and to all different kinds, types, categories of dickriders!
Gotta love the whole idea of blaming their loss in a match on someone else. No need for personal accountability right? If they beat team Kuwait we are not even having this conversation.
As for the $2,000, once you're committed to a course of action, you've already accepted the outcome whether it's good or bad. They knew going in what the costs were. So losing and then expecting compensation is ridiculous.
@jhayze
7. lastly f*ck SBO and to all different kinds, types, categories of dickriders!
ain't you riding a d*ck right now?
most of us are using logic your just hopping on a D*ck and riding
as i said before if they won the match, we wouldn't be talking about this now...
lmao @94 taking online play into account it means nothing Tokido proved that against that Viper player who would beat him online pfft.. anyways there infrastructure is better than ours in terms of internet so your argument holds little water.
To the people saying how they had a chance and werent good enough to beat Kuwait you realise Kuwait are actually a really strong team. The way the SBO format works means that half the battle is matchups and the rest player skill. Who are any of you to say that Jose and Hsien wouldnt have made it further than round one . They had to play arguably one of the best if not the best Guy players around and from experience Guy is a difficult matchup for anyone who doesnt have any experience against him particularly someone of Nox's calibur who keeps constant pressure with run stops and frame traps. At the end of the day the dude has every right to be pissed, as a university student myself I know how expensive and time consuming higher education is and to put it on hold briefly to fly around the world and spend a boat load of money as others have said only to find out your not in the actual tournemant is in the words of David Lynch. Total. F***ing.Bull**it.
They also charged money to watch and they didnt even have a good stream, f*ck SBO. learn to throw a real tourny with actual rounds.
and NvhA is a scrub who cant play so no bother.
Very articulate post, good job. Half the people commenting in here didn't even read the full post, I guarantee that.
Banana Ken was just upset that he got brushed aside after spending all the time and money to get to Japan. It's like they didn't even care he was there, pretty shameful on SBO's side.
Rather than make them face a team that had no idea what was going on, they really should have handled it better.
Shame.
well, tbh, you shouldn't go to japan for just a tournament, i mean, it's an expensive trip for a student. when the tournament is during your vacation, then it's ok. i know it's unfair but tbh if you don't manage to win in "prequalifier", don't expect to win sbo. going to sbo with the goal just passing first round, doesn't give you the 2000$ back... so stop hate please
@125 roknin:
You comments are absolute nonsense.
You wrote:
"I'm surprised BananaKen was able to give that measured of a response. I'd still be flipping tables."
Sure buddy. Typical internet dork. You'd still be flipping tables? Are you joking? You know what you would doing in Japan after flipping that second table? You be getting your nerd a-s-s kicked and landing yourself in jail.
In the real world when things don't go your way, you don't get to flip tables and murder people.
Again if Bananaken was considered better at the game none of this would have happened. The organizers obviously thought that it wasn't going to change anything if he wasn't in the tournament - and they were right. Sure it sucks for him.
To those people that don't think this had to do with Daigo, why would they ask him first to have a playoff with them?
Bananaken doesn't even believe he can win, he just wanted to see if he could get past the first round. For $2000? What a joke. You think he should get his money back? Another internet fantasy. If he was really that good, people in Japan would be sticking up for him.
You internet tough guys need to take a look at how the real world works. Not your little fantasy world. That "187" you put next to you XBOX live tag makes you look like a retard not a tough guy. Go flip tables next time someone at McDonalds messes up your order, see where that gets you.
Feel really sorry for the guy... Japanese bureacracy, gotta hate it.
Hope you still have fun during your trip though and good luck on your studies...
To all the cats saying "let it go..."
That's real easy to say when you're not the one who shelled out 2 g's...
@lukecage83
he was going to spend the 2g's ether way he didn't go to sbo to win he went to get past first round...
so you do the math sbo was just a reason to go to japan he went sight seeing and all that, going to sbo was just icing on the cake.
All this scandal talk is really deflecting another poor showing from team USA. We get it, you had to play another qualifying matches and its not fair but if you're good enough, you'd make it to the actual round anyway.