Capcom-Unity has posted the second part of the beta changes for SSF4 AE v2012, you can find them here.
And people say newCapcom is LAZY. (Well in RE4HD, YES)
They spent 3 years making the same game!
liking the Oni buffs especially the air demon. hated hitting some1 while putting in the inputs and the escape the super
Now, the twins will be low tier xD
Really don´t understand this type of mindset, mainly because everyone is being buffed.
What do those Gen dash changes mean, because they SOUND broken good. Which would be FANTASTIC considering how badly Gen needed change. Also very happy that EX Oga is finally not the hands down worst use of meter in the game. Very happy. Considering that Gouken and Gen have taught practically half the cast of this game according to canon, they really should be damn good.
God damn, Evil Ryu's sweep back to ass-tier. I guess those hard knockdowns after lk tatsus are back to being real tedious...
^
And with it, revives crux of his offensive troubles.
Wow those Rose changes are pure and utter garbage
At the end of the article:
"A new little thing we’ve added but…
When beginning the game, if you hold all 3 punch buttons and then press start….!?"
What could this be?
I wish it was possible to edit comments...
Half the crap I type doesn't make sense the first time. :(
damn eryus sweep goes up 1F and its ass? doesn't he basically have kens current ae sweep now? if he can combo into (not familiar with his jab frames)it i'd hardly call it ass.hype about oni & dudley buffs.still wish fuerte would get running sobat armor break buff but I'll take whatever I can get.
@20 bwinches Sounds cool to me, but you have to consider with the way juggle properties work in this game it's actually not so easy. You would get side effects of other combinations like Oil Rocket to that running command grab or the slide. Which would be cool actually, if balanced correctly.
@23
6F would allow him to do sweep after LK Tatsu, so yes, its ass. I really don´t believe this is a really viable torney char, he needed that in my opinion, that option would make him more stronger.
@23
Also, he can´t combo into sweep, he does not have any normal that give him 7F of Hit stun to allow him to sweep.
more like RIP Rose. she's at the bottom of the tiers in AE and they did jacksh*t to her to make her better in 2012.
what a way to f*ck rose users in the ass capcom.
If you hold all 3 punch buttons and press start...you get original Strawberry (?) AE balance?
but that will also cross him over into being more like akuma instead of a balanced mesh of both akuma and ryu.if his sweep being at 7f allows him to combo into sweep like reg ryu can that'll balance the blend of the two even further since in ae he feels more like a akuma trying to be like ryu as it is.he doesn't need tatsu into sweep.only players trying to play toward the akuma side feel it necessary. the whole point is to mix the 2 in a way that makes a unique char.
that ambiguity at the end man
"A new little thing we’ve added but…
When beginning the game, if you hold all 3 punch buttons and then press start….!?"
stop creating false hope for more characters, GOD!
Even though it seems lulzy and pointless, I do like the spin knuckle block string buff. Despite the fact that most spin knuckles just get DP'd by higher level players, or at least anyone with a brain XD
A buff to an upper mid tier character is nothing to actually complain about, although I'm sure us Cammy users would have loved having a 1 frame less start up on standing hk or crouching mk. Or a regular throw distance, like James Chen and Justin Wong mentioned on twitter.
@SnakeX The meter gain for Gen in Vanilla was ridiculous, I can't imagine why anyone would return Gen to that level given how much he's changed since then. That said, Capcom really needs to give Gen more meter gain, because it's even MORE ridiculous how LITTLE meter he gains in AE. A full 8-hit Gekiro builds less meter than a whiffed light shoryu? Nope. Just put him on par with the rest of the cast when it comes to meter and I'll be so happy.
@31 - damn really? fukd in the @ss? she got a buff to soul piede (f+rh) which was godlike in vanilla and is good for her footsies.plus I believe she got a cl mk buff that makes it comboable into cr.mp now.cl mk blows up cr techs and can lead to combos i'd hardly call that bein fukd in the @ss.unless u still holding out for her getting her u2 invincibility back, then by all means stay feeling reamed.I'm rather optimistic toward her combined changes from the alpha & beta loke tests.
@ #34
Evil Ryu has a horrible problem with getting knockdowns against more solid players, let alone hard knockdowns. (Even ex reg hadouken doesn't knock down and pretty much serves only to let you land 3 ex bar combos!)
You're right, he needs more hitstun on his jabs (at least 1 more frame), however I also think he needs this way into a hard knockdown.
At 7 frames I think it only works in the corner - and on some characters. I could be wrong on that but I know 6 frames was key for it being infinitely more useful.
finally anything Rose does is useless. oh wait..
@ #34 continues
Also, he was already merging the two in the alpha. Being flat-out like akuma would mean being able to vortex after the tatsu to sweep setup - and being flat-out like normal Ryu would mean the sweep would have to have a godlike 5 frame startup.
whatever that is its not going to make Rose any better since she's terrible in all SF4 versions.
^
Sorry, but Third Strike Sean is "terrible".
^ no offense, but i dont give a flying fat f*ck about 3s. and we're not talking about that here either.
@44
Yeah man, I'm pretty disappointed they put his sweep back to 7 frames. I was really looking forward to that :(
It's all good. Ryu's still fun for me :)
REALLY WISH THE TWINS STAYED STRONG ;( feel bad....
sad too.. and i dont even use them..
But i think they were perfect, just everyone else needed to be buffed up as well and it would be a War Zone!
The twins are the future of street fighter man!
I thought with the kung fu set of characters becoming so strong the actual Skill from the fights was on another level. Less fire balls , more flips,cancels believable looking combos, unlike that mess Abel throws around in his Supers
In Vanilla you saw pro's mash fireballs and zone techniques, looking at clips from Yun and Yang was insane these some fancy lil mothaf******* gona miss you guys
I just hope they give makoto back her ex karakusa range. Thats really all I want.
@ #53
I was implying that you are spoilt by the balance of these games and don't truly know what "terrible" really is.
Rose isn't bad enough (in most cases) to quickly make her a scapegoat for your losses, hell - she is genuinely decent in some aspects.
@ #60
Because it's a real pain in the ass to deal with? The same thing was said about Fei's rekkas and look what happened to those...
Rose needs a few things to help her out.
1. Overhead, cuz most of cast has overhead and really why not give all char some type of overhead even if its bad. Close St. mk would be to fast but maybe Close st. RH?
2. Better focus attack, there no range on that thing at all and its slow and I don't think your ever able to forward dash on FA block and be safe.
3. A little more invincibility frames to EX drill so it can go through projectiles or at least not get stuff or thrown out of? Not asking for a new reversal but give the high risk one a little better.
4. This is probably asking too much but mayb some of her normals have more +frames on block? I look at frame data for lots of char and they have more that 2 moves with good amounts of +frames on block.(cam,guy)
My attempt at being constructive instead of destructive. Thanks
@ #64
Most of the things there can be summed up in one statemt:
Characters tend to have strong and weak points by design, so that not everyone is good at everything. Although, some characters end up poorer than others overall - or some talents get outshined by other characters.
Of course Cammy and Guy (for example) have moves with high frame advantage, they are brawling machines up close and they want to encourage comboing through generally making the links easier than most of the cast, which also usually grants the option of high damage 1-framers for the better/riskier players.
Give Dudley more range on hist Ultra 1 please! :)
sorry but luffy made her look godlike in super and auturo still dabbles with her from time to time.even sako picked her up at one point.I think powerhouse is still recoverying from the leftover salt of losing her scrubby u2 wake up invincibility. any real rose player is still rejoicing at the changes mentioned in the alpha build.
for the last time, rose doesnt need an overhead. she needs better defensive options, specially on wakeup.
like EX Drill. you know, what Rose player have been asking for since vanilla?
does that ring a bell capcom, or are you idiots too busy catering up to daigo's requests while gobbling his nuts at the same time?
@70
I'm a forever Rose, and I am freaking popping a champagne bottle at the THOUGHT of buffs for her.
Regular meter gain off Soul Sparks, Soul Piede is amazing again, and more reflex-capable EX-Reflect? That is WAY better than nothing. Could she use more? Hell yeah, but these buffs are still great for her no matter how you dice it.
#70 compare the buffs the others got compared to hers. their buffs are much more significant than hers. those buffs are ok, whoopty doo, but that doesn't change the fact that she still got the short end of the stick, and she'll most likely be bottom tier now that Hakan will most likely leave that spot.
@70
LOL THIS COMMENT! Are you serious ???? You are basing your facts over ONE player ???? sorry to dissapoint you but since AE sako changed to ibuki so shut up about your leftovers over u2. The majority people complaining about this ultra isn't the rose community but YOU PLAYERS that can't even take the chip damage or just can't block when she activates it. And btw U2 NEVER HAD INVINCIBILITY. Go get your facts right before trying to act cool by bashing someone else.
Go check Arturo's twitter and tell me if he rejoices about Rose's changes in the alpha and beta versions. I dare you to come here and still say she's a reliable character compare to the rest of the buffs the rest of the cast got (maybe aside vega tho). Go check luffy's comments on the shoryuken forum and come here and tell me that he thinks that Rose is fine. Otherwise, you have nothing to say.
Typical people that can't verify their sources / don't even play Rose and say stupid things...smh
@72
I don't call these buffs. I call this reverting back to Super-state. Same thing they did with chun li and with any other characters that they nerfed from super to AE and give them the same thing that they had before without giving new SIGNIFICANT ones.
Indeed its better than receiving nerfs but it still doesnt help Rose in any way. She's back to super state minus her U2. So what ? She still have a bad to mediocre defense, her offense is so-so and I could go on. The fact that they give U2 as a band-aid to fix Rose's a problem clearly indicates that Capcom knows that Rose has some problems. Removing the ability to block immediately after U2 activation, I have no problem with that. But getting nothing in return that could help her ? This is BS. (+4 on cl.mk doesn't change anything. It doesn't opens to new combo or w/e. It just opens to a new 1-frame link combo. "yay...NOT" and EX Reflect is STILL useless. Why burn meter to reflect a fireball ? pathetic changes. Specially when you see the rest of the cast getting mad buffs)
#70 let me guess, you're Press McButtons, aren't you?
Been maining Rose since vanilla and in my opinion Rose's 2012 changes so far are perfect. And she is no way bottom tier even in AE.
I love the way Rose is played! Her footsies, tick throw range and zoning are already some of the best in the game.
Yet peeple want her to get silly buffs like an overhead? Really an overhead? With orbs swirling around it that goes into any combo or even super? that would be even cheaper than the invincibility she had in SSF4!
In 2012 Rose is getting buffs that improve her game in the areas that make her Rose. Her orbs are now back to five frames start up (semi unblockable setup is back!) Her vanilla pede was amazing combined with orbs its going to be even more useful. Comboing from standing MK is an amazing buff! Guessing wrong whilst attempting to tech her tick throws or slide>throw is now gona hurt way more. EX reflect buff is awesome! Predictable blockstrings ending in projectiles,even EX run serious risk of getting it right back at em swiftly into Ultra 1. Meter gain is back to how it was in super! And by the sounds of it your going to be less likely to get an ex soul throw by mistake after an FADC>ultra 2 attempt. What more could you ask?
Sure she still has no real "get off me" move and struggles after a knock down or in the corner. Thats just the price you pay for a very solid footsie/zoning/throw game and being able to completely nulify projectiles. The idea with Rose is to dictate the pace of the fight using her strengths and avoid getting into those situations in the first place. Thats what makes her so fun to play!
#80 tell that to sabin and luffy.
what more could we ask? try an EX Drill that actually can be a reversal.
^let me guess u and griever are still salty aren't u? boo hoo rose sucks cuz the few truly skilled tourney players that used her dropped her cuz her easy free wake up ultra2 got nerfed.I'll still enjoy using the char again (I used to use her back in vanilla btw).
the buffs she received like her soul piede properties going back to vanilla status and her cl.mk buff will open up some interesting thing for her.not to mention the few things she got from this beta.
hey here's a thought if u really like the char how bout u sthu and just play the char? instead of bitching about not getting a equal amount of buffs like the other chars that help compensate for ur obvious skill deficiencies. Stay salty & free.
@78
Reverting her to Super state is better than leaving her at AE form. They may be "rollback" changes, but they are still buffs, bit that's what we need to focus on the most.
It sucks knowing that Rose is basically "untouched", save for her 1 new combo link, tho. Giving her a true blockstring would really help her right about now.
#82 you're back after griever exposed you for the fraud that you are, Pressy McButtons?
and it's funny how you're telling us we're salty when you are basically crying how "easy free wakeup U2" was horribly imbalanced. double standard much?
Rose zoning is decent. Definitely not one of the best in the game. Recovery on her soul sparks and how some hitbox on her normals are proves this.
Footsies are fine, tick throw range is hella good. only problem is that its mostly with 2-3 of the same normals and people start to find ways to beat it. Specially with how some characters got insane hitbox improvements in some of their normals, I'm pretty sure a lot of them will trade with Rose's normals at some point. Which is seriously not in her favor.
I dont see how +4 on cl.mk will be that useful: cl.mk usually comes off with a counter hit because someone either tried to cr.tech or tried to hit you low. Its already +3 since vanilla. With the counter hit it goes up to +6 so cr.MP is already something you could do. hell you can even combo with cr.HP with the right spacing and timing and against some specific characters it works all the time.
Overhead ? Rose ? haha that would be funny as hell. She has a semi-overhead and that's enough for her.
Predictable blockstrings that ends with a fireball can be stopped with EX spiral / focus attack / U1. Why use Ex reflect ?
You said it yourself: "Meter gain is back to how it was in super!" How can we call something that was removed from us, then we have it back, a buff ? how ?? there is no buffs in this.
I don't see how fixing a glitch can be called a buffs. That's seriously Capcom's fault. That's the same thing regarding Rose getting Counter hit damage when she traded with her cr.mk. This is not supposed to happen.
Rose doesn't need a "get off me" move. She needs tweaks to make her more than just "ok". She needs more than just being back in her super state with 2 new bad buffs. When you think about it, back in Super, if you take aside Rose's U2, she was on the same level as the new characters (or maybe just above the new cast of the game aka guy/cody/makoto/adon/hakan/juri/t.hawk/dee jay/dudley/ibuki) the transition from Super to AE made her at her 2nd worst iteration in the world of SF4 while all the new characters got really GOOD buffs. Some even terrific buffs (makoto...) now we are waiting for AE2012, these same new characters are still getting great buffs (and honestly, makoto got minor nerfs...) while Rose is only back to her super state ?
Yes Rose has ok footsies/zoning etc..but having the lowest damage output/poor defense/"ok" offense/below average health, she can't at least get a decent reversal ? She's incomplete. She doesn't excel in any of the fields mentioned earlier. She's just "ok". Plain and simple. Chun li excels in footsies and her wake up options are that good. Cody excels in frame traps and damaging combos and his wake up options aren't that good. The list could go on. Rose's only "reversal" can get beat by a simple lp ? or a grab ? or anything that's delayed ?
I wont even answer U4iA27 since he doesn't even know what he's talking about
@83
Yes I understand this point. I just find it unfair regarding the fact that Capcom knows about Rose's problems, gives us a "band-aid" without really fixing the issue, removing this band-aid while giving nothing in return. I mean if you know there's a problem with the character and people have been asking for some changes in this particular area since vanilla, I don't know why they even mention that they do these in function of what the community says. It's not that hard to Test the properties of EX spiral by making the active frames hit earlier for example, or giving it more invincibility, etc. Right now all I see is that Capcom knows there's a problem, they are too lazy to fix it so they are giving her back some stuffs she had before
yesh ibukis u1 input change maybe now ill be able to sjc into it lol. Also im pretty sure i saw somewhere that they are doing one more location test and set of tweaks after this. Im not trying to be troll and get everyones hopes or anything but im sure i saw it somewhere and i hope i did some characters still look like they need some help.
@89
HAHAHAHAHAHA.
I LOL'd at this comment!!!!
Can every one tell me , about this adjustment will be related with v 2012 version post on 23 Aug ? or this is final version ? last time v2012 ( aug version ) adjustment still work on this version ?
another question : it is this version juri is going buff or neff compare with last time version ?
@84 - what are u, his cheerleader? I know enough about the char to know that she isn't ass.what do I have to cry about? if I throw an atk and my atk box makes contact during ur u2 activation u get hit which is how it should be for any move w/o invincibility such as rose u2.stay free
@85 - like I said to ur biggest fan I know more than enough about rose to know she is heavily based on footsies and most if not all the buffs she got are geared toward improving that specific area of her game.u say she doesn't excel anywhere yet no other char can shut down projectiles like she can so i'd say she excels quite well in that area.
Predictable blockstrings that ends with a fireball can be stopped with EX spiral / focus attack / U1. Why use Ex reflect ?
Well an EX fireball will beat focus and you cant combo off a drill. Ultra 1 will work clean if you have one but EX reflect will be allot safer if you guessed wrong.
Granted her changes to EX reflect isnt the greatest buff in the world but I would rather have it than not.
@ aldo99 (80) - To be honest, I was pretty down when I read the changes. It was good to hear some positive thoughts on her.
I'm sticking with her. Still using Juri as an alt and still annoyed about Rose's wakeup game, but I just... can't play anyone else and feel "right", if that makes sense.
@roknin I know what you mean, I'll rage day after day about Gouken (and my suckiness with him), but no one else feels "right" for me...
Hold all 3 punch buttons then start sounds like a way to unlock a hidden boss character. I hope for Rolento.
YESSSSSS AT U1 Ibuki! Now she will be everything I always wanted, and more! Check out my videos using U1, actually, it's the only one I use, with her.
Maaan, wtf are they doing to Adon? His Jks could already be stuffed with normals. Now they're gonna make the move useless. At least Abel is looking strong.
#110 yeah rose is lame. Shes supposed to be. I just picked her up recently and its so much fun to see scrubs loosing their confidence when Rose takes away all their scrubby options, and then lameing it out till they get desperate. Shes the ultimate punishment. Such a fun character.
#103, you're funny. you don't even know me and you say i rely on U2?
I kept on playing Rose on AE. But i dont think idiots like you are interested in hearing that because of your impression of me as "a scrub who relies on U2". What a retard.
I bet you don't even know how to fight against Rose and got owned by her because YOU'RE THE SCRUB.
@93 well good luck into shutting projectiles when you are facing a non-projectile character. We'll see if a buff the ex reflect will be useful there
@95 Don't really need to combo into ex drill because the positioning that it gives is really good. U1 is risky but not impossible. Like a lot of players that learned to properly counter Rose between her cr.mp -> Med/High S.Spiral you can practice to always get it right. EX reflect is also risky. recovery on this move is 24. I doubt you will be able to combo with it since you still need some kind of distance to able to react to the fireball -> reflect it then attack. But I don't want to say more about it since we still don't know the impact of the move...
@103 lol funny thing that the majority of the community says she's the 3rd worst character of the game now. Anyone who still thinks she's "good" in AE is in denial and just don't know the matchup. By the end of Super (when AE was about to come out) Rose was considered C+. I don't care about tier list but that gives you an idea of how what people think about her at her current state. And if you call getting 2 buffs (and how funny they found glitches only on Rose out of all the 39 character lmao) a lot...lol.
Hey, Griefer and other Rose "get off me" move complainers.
I don't think you realise - but pretty much all of the zoning and poke-based characters have crappy wakeup options. As is by design. It's too stupid to let them get out of trouble easily. So yeah, she's supposed to suck at brawling range.
Her 1-frame Ultra 2 was just RIDICULOUS for a character like her. It was free, it basically reset the situation so you had another free chance at not screwing up your zoning/poke game - whilst potentially netting some nice damage.
I don't care what people say but I will say this: Anyone that thinks that Rose is lame either:
- Don't know the matchup
- Don't know how to approach her (some characters have more difficulties than others tho...)
- Are mad at her backdash and can't learn OS
- Are just plain dumb.
Rose's play style is almost identical to Ryu/Guile/Sagat/Chun etc...
No she won't get in your face for no reason like yun since she doesn't have the proper tools for this. Yes she will zone/play footsies to keep you where she wants and punish you accordingly like the characters mentioned before.
@115
I've been sticking to Rose since vanilla, and it's so hard to keep up with all these changes, and even more, having to literally bust your ass to win. Wins only come easy against those who don't play against Rose users, but against experienced players who are onto her tricks and know what isn't a real blockstring, it turns into a chess match even more than what the game already is.
I still main Rose, but I've been using Chun-Li and Sakura as 2nd/3rds because I know that Rose, no matter how much I love her style, just isn't much of a chance "as is" in AE, and even the 2012 changes won't do much for her because everyone else is having hitbox buffs and more frame advantage, which leads to non-projectile characters being able to shut down Rose or trade a hell of alot more with her now.
I'm still going to use her, but I can't really feel so optimistic about it.
#117 i get your point, but we're not really asking for a risk-free get out of jail card. ex drill should've worked as a proper reversal move, but that wouldn't be as imbalanced as capcom thinks it would be because people can punish it on block or whiff.
right now, even throws and measly jabs can stuff it. kind of ridiculous, don't you think?
#118
Your right that shes a zoning character that relies on spacing, but other then that the characters you mentioned have nothing in common with her. And Rose is defenetly lame, which i dont think is a negative thing. Shes very hard to play, and relys on reading her opponent way more then other zoning characters because her options are not as safe and her moves are more limited to certain situations then with other zoning characters. I would compare her more to dhalsim then to the 4 Chars you mentioned, becacause a wrong guess is more unforgiving then with Ryu/Sagat//Guile and Chun. But even Dhalsim can be played scrubby to a certain level.
I think I might have a passable idea of what the "Hold three punches and press start" might be...
If you've ever played AE at the arcade you'd know that the Press Start Menu is different than the home version.
AE at the Arcade Shows Crazy images of E.Ryu and ONI, the console (even with the disk) does not.
So the code may change the menu. That'd be pretty cool IMO.
But omg guys, could you imagine if they slipped a Time Released character in with the update! Then a month from now BAM! Alex appears! Lol.
I know I'd Sh!t. That would be soooo epic!
@117 lol well sorry but Chun li has a way more reliable reversal compare to Rose even tho it can be safe jumped or stopped at the right time, etc. (just an example btw) If she that had the best pokes/zoning tools of the game, I would agree that she gets no buffs for her defense. But she doesn't. She's "ok" in these area so I don't see why she can't be "ok" or at least go from mediocre to bad in her defensive tools. She could be buffed in other ways too but the Rose community is more wishing about better defense options than better zoning/pokes tools.
@122 yeah true. I was more thinking about stupid situations like throw fireball -> opponent jumps -> you AA him. Like Ryu that does hadouken -> DP if opponent jumps or sagat that does HK, Guile either air grabs or cr.HP etc...
@125 the problem is that you would accept any buffs capcom throws at Rose because they are buffs. Who wouldn't be happy about buffs? What you can't put in your little brain is that we(Rose community) AND CAPCOM(yes them too!) knows that she has other issues then reflecting fireballs or making her links easier. What you don't realise is that these buffs doesn't help her in her gameplay specially while others are getting even more buffs.
F***ing stop talking about U2. All people that tried to act like they know how Rose should be played only had this reason to their tongue while we don't even address this matter in any way.
I don't even know why I replied to this: Saying Rose is still good even in AE.. Wow. You only play online to justify this claim ?
@ #125
you completely defeat your point with the way you argue. You do sound pretty scrubby, telling everyone here how great you are and whatnot.
Your right that Rose is fine the way she is, but that doesnt mean shes a good character. I like to go the extra mile with her, even thou i loose a lot with her, and i loose to people that i shouldnt loose against. Winning with her feels like an accomplishment, and i love that about her. But denying her weaknesses and insulting people who wish for her to be at least on mid level, is just wrong.
I dont agree with mpowerhouse either. If she should change, i think her Airgrab should get more damage or her HP Reflect should get a little more invincibillity so you can use it as anti air and make a combo out of it. It would be good if making good reads would pay off a little more.
Even thou i like her the way she is, its ridiculus that making good reads with her doesnt pay off as much as making good reads with other characters, even thou thats pretty much all shes about while the other characters have other strenghts too. That just doesnt make any sense.
@ #126
"I don't even know why I replied to this: Saying Rose is still good even in AE.. Wow. You only play online to justify this claim ?"
To be fair, there are a whole slew of players that hit godlike levels by pretty much only training online. (This includes several top level players, such as Latiff and Wolfkrone)
Sure, it's far from the best proving ground for a grudge match - but it is a legitimate way to become decent and learn matchups.
@ #129
It's "lose", not "loose" (as in a loose knot).
Yeah, I'm gonna get called out for this - but screw it.
Even the "bad" characters in this game have some good tools. Has been that way for a while too.
Justin Wong took a couple of games off of Air Ryu with Dan in some tourny at the end of SSF4's lifetime - and Daigo was even taken down by Wildcat's Hakan in the same time period.
It's nothing like some other games where the "bad" characters are basically unwinnable, they actually stand a pretty solid chance here, providing you know your stuff.
I am liking what I am seeing so far but Capcom if you are reading this post out of the many other posts. Please consider giving Gen the ability to have his EX Oga down kick made much faster and animation wise like his Alpha 3 Oga kick (where he spins spiraling down) and with at least +1 on block. Plus consider making it so that Oga is not so obvious until an attacking oga comes out similar to how Adon's wall kick on ex doesn't light up until the attack comes out. That would not be broken as it will add to the depth of the character itself and make Gens oki game more dangerous. This is something I hope that they at least try out.
@132 I can't pronounce myself by being 100% confident with what I'm gonna say but... Yes latif and krone played a lot of online but remember that both of them are using Viper. The learning curve of Viper is huge and brings high rewards. On top of that, seeing that there are not a lot of Viper players, its more about knowing the player than knowing how to counter Viper. Each player have their own mixups and applies them the way they want. Their only concern is for them not going autopilot otherwise they will be easy to defeat.
@134 I cant deny the fact that Rose still has a great cr.mp (even tho it was nerfed), cl.mk / far mk etc. A lot of her moves are situational are in these situation, they are good. U2 mixups went from being good (super) to "ok" (AE) more frames on startup/smaller hitbox really made U2 mixups worse. Chun li has the best backdash in the game and even so All backdash can be OSed. At this point everyone who has played SF4 for a decent amount of time should have the knockledge to counter this.
Yes Rose back in super was at her best because even if she still had some major flaws, they were all fixed with U2 and so until we learned about the new changes for AE no one really addressed this problem anymore. But she DID went down to the their list toward the end of super because people started to figured out that once U2 was gone she was that dangerous.
Yes sako used her in super and so what ? This only proved what I just said earlier. You have no rights about saying these kind of things about gootecks and arturo. They both are good in their own way. Covering bad matchups with a secondary character ? Who doesn't do that and what's bad about it ?
I know Rose is not popular, to the point where I think she's the 2nd or 3rd most hated character of the game. This isn't the question. Its about giving her the proper tools for her to be evenly matched with the rest of the cast. Sorry but gen got a lot of love from Super -> AE -> AE2012 you can't deny that. Gen and Rose are no longer on the same list (they were never actually)
I won't base my take on your "I'm still think she's good". You don't provide enough evidence for that compare to people like Luffy(yes the luffy player also gave his opinion on this matter), Mago(who literally said to drop Rose to some Rose players back at Evo), Arturo, Saqs etc who provided good reasons for why Rose still didn't get enough love to be a competitive character. I'm not basing what I'm saying only on what I know but from what the community says overall.
I feel like putting a list off all the important buffs every characters got to compare them to each other. Maybe people will realise that some characters still need some attention (I'm talking about other characters too...at this point I could careless if I they don't give others to Rose for the final version.)
#134 I see it differently.
The best thing about her normals is their reach. but the hitboxes are not good and the priority is just ok, the only exeption being cr mp
Her fireballs have horrible recovery and they are all pretty slow and that gives the opponent too much time to think about how to react to them which makes it harder to bait then with other characters. Her backdash is pretty awesome but Makotos is better and a few others have one just as good, like Juri or dan.
She has great potential to bait, but her punishes are weak because they lack damage and combo potential.
Making a mistake with her costs too much because all her moves are only suited for special situations, doing the wrong move with her is much more unvorgiving then with other characters. And you have to work hard for the victory, because you cant play her on Autopilot and always have to be in the mind of your opponent.
And thats why i think the pro's ignore her.
It makes such a huge difference with her if your opponent knows the matchup, cause its too easy to shut her down.
And sure people can do good with her but im pretty sure that Rose players who would have spend the same amount of training on a different character would do much better. If you do good with her, you are probably more skilled then other fighters with the same amount of player points.
I don't care about the buffs and nerfs (I'm a scrub, it doesn't really matter to me unless they change the inputs -> I think I spent a whole match trying to get out psycho punisher before I remembered reading that the input changed!), but I really like playing Rose. I'm surprised people say she's "hated." I love the throws, the slide and canceling fireballs, I think she has good anti-air options (cr. HP and U1), and comboing into super from the spiral feels so effing good.
THis is really good news for Gen. With the previous notes. Gen builds more meter, can FADC his Jyasen to continue his combo's. Can even link U2 Mantis after Ex jyasen. Has faster OGA and more damage and juggle properties with EX.
EX Jyasen has 3 versions and is fully projectile invincible. Better pokes.
More decent anti air in cr. HK in crane Better FA.
Hard version Gekiro does untechable knockdown and Gekiro builds more meter.
I think we got a VERY competitive character now. ME so happy!!!!!
Honestly, I don't even know Gen's moves by their names. lol!
Wow, Rose is getting a lot of attention here. I really enjoy playing Rose but I have an easier time winning with other characters. Still, I really don't play a lot and Rose takes more work to get good than a lot of other characters.
I'll reserve my judgement of her latest balance changes until I try it out. It's really hard to know how everything is going to fall into place when you have to take into account changes made to the entire roster in order to know how Rose will fare.
OHHHHH MYYY GOD. who cares about low tier ass rose. shes never been a contender in any tourney same goes for gen. i guess xbox live IS really full of loser scrubs. there is a secret group of rose lovers i never see any rose online. anyways ryu, yun, and yang are craptastic fei long is back to his SUPER self. makoto is knocked down hard and e honda will still suck. guile will be a threat again? will he? deejay to be A tier? realhahaeeleeeee??? ken loses his sweep combo frame?? thoughts???????? moving away from apparently xbox live only rose. jesus...
Zangief needs to be balance up by changing it back to vanilla Zangief.. Zangief is still having too much bad match ups..
Its lariat should be fixed back to the vanilla version which allows zangief to lariat at a 3 hit damage safe cost with lower hitbox.. this should be fair for all zangief's player as gief is always taking too much damage from all characters.. To balance gief is just to set it back to vanilla form would be the best..
The cooldown of the missing grab should be reduce for grabbing characters such as zangief, t.hawk, honda, abel etc.. as the damage back for missing a grab is too costly, an there are too many disadvantages for grabbing, such as footsy(sagat), projectile(sagat), high damaging(honda), high mixup characters.. The bad match up that zangief have is still against too many characters such as honda, sagat, yun, and many more, all this could be fixed if the grabbing cooldown is being reduced by 1/2.
Every character should have a good anti air (such as uppercut), a move to counter projectiles, a move to escape complicated mixed up without blocking and a basic damage to even up (probably a counter attack if being hit or a dash escape). Until then, you then can say that a character is usable for tournaments. In the actual fact, grabbing characters should get more damage for the physical damage if in a game its totally impossible to make a simple grab on the opponent at least its still compromise to the end of the match that grabbing characters have either good footsy or higher physical damage.
Random Ryu pic between Gen and T.Hawk.