Season's Beatings Velocity has finished up. Team Sp00ky provided a very nice stream all through the weekend for viewers to check out at home.
No need to mention the internet. It's a fighting stream, so crappy venue internet is expected, never mind that every other game gets streamed at 720/1080p. Gotta have Street fighter 4: Limited Internet Edition in 240/360p, higher would be a crime.
Yes I'm mad at good US internet.
It's easily watchable, 60fps stream is absolutely fine.
watching drunk as sh!t from korea... damn army curfew lol.
suprised.. will tokido make it out?flash beasting! with them ,low tier! awesome
Is it just me, or is this embed streams a little bit faster?
Lets go flash! And sherry has no idea what she is talking about, watch option select peter has sooooo many teams. go option select! hell yea, wong on the mic... say what u want but dude is insightful
Flash!! Miami baby!! And pffft Flash better than rog, f*ck evo moment... ed is good, but imho flash is better
"The venue at Season's Beatings doesn't have the best internet so the quality isn't the typical Team Sp00ky quality, but it's still watchable. "
You say that, but this is the best framerate I've ever seen on a fighting game stream. Maybe it's the new version of Flash that was just released? Wh oknows.
These Wolverine, Sent, and Akuma players need to go the F**k home and be family men this is so boring!
Man, I haven't watched a stream in over 6 months. KFC Yipes just keeps getting bigger and bigger yo.
#25 AE Tourney is tomorrow, but there is this Mystery Player Exhibition at 10PM that may be on the stream.
That kind of sucks that Mike Ross and Combofiend are off commentary for now for the East Coast guys (Yipes and some other guy, sorry not all up to date on players)
@29
You ain't too current is you. Spooky got his equipment jacked by Homeland Security so he's running on some of his old stuff, that's why it's so pixelated.
You scrubs kill me with the "oh..I lost to Phoenix" then B***h let me see you play with Phoenix...Oh scared of the snap backs and 50/50 cross ups into instant death? I thought so scrub.....
@29 - People not raising their voice because they don't realize 3mb internet is slow and lagging behind the rest of the developed world. Companies not wanting to invest in their own infrastructure because they have no competition.
*FOR JAGO EYES* PWAAAHAHAHAHAHA I hate u Jago! Now go complain some more about the abosolute power that is Dark Phoenix you free b***h and brag about that almost comeback you almost had....but remember almost doesn't count muthaf*cka u would have still lost evo had u gone!
@Super_Chun
Regional cable monopolies for the win yo. US Internet is pathetic compared to countries like Japan and Korea.
When the Fu*k is this dumb MVC crap be over? I wanna see SSf4 action already!
Noel just choke, this was his time, and he choke. Good Stuff to Flocker.
HAHAHA Flocker another chosen one to wield the Phoenix force! Lets go Phoenix players!
Noel brown didn't chocke. All those players can beat him at any random day.
Noel clown exposed, but thats nothing new. my only? why would he put himself last, lol
Noel has done well for himself in this game. But, who actually believes he is the best the East Coast has to offer?
And was there any specific reason why Chris G wasn't at least on team East Coast team? Doesn't he handle East Coast using troll teams?
@xxvic1ousxx
yeah Chris G is the best player in the EC and he is not on the team for some crazy reason. I guess Chris G will just win all the EC tournaments when WC players are gone.
Forget about the Flocker choice, which turned out to be amazing, or the PR Rog pick (how the f--k is PR East coast?), picking Yipes over Chris G was clearly fraudulent. Chris G: 3rd at CEO, 1st at ECT, 1st at Summer Jam, top 32 at EVO, consistently kicks ass at Guard Crush (including yours, Noel). Yipes: 3rd at Summer Jam.....
West coast team's mistake was putting Marn over Floe, imo.
So anyone know Daigo's excuse for not coming to Season's Beatings this year? Is it because he got bodied so hard last year and wanted to save himself the embarrassment?
cc.coL|Combofiend for runnin sets 19.
Hey i sent in a tip for this can i get some cred. or i'll sue :P
@58:
You mean the tourney with loud, stupid Americans who made Daigo wear noise cancelling headphones afterwards? Yeah, I'm sure Daigo would wanna fly more than 12 hours on a plane to go to such a tourney.
super happy they are using the new payout system.. this encourages more participation and feel accomplished.. the top 3 pay outsystem is stupid...
@60
Did you miss the other 7-8 Runnin' Sets episodes with Combofiend?
@66 I seen them I was just going off all the peeps in the room after 18 Yipes there was like 8 peeps that could have tryed to give Combofiend a run for his money so to speak. WATCH THOSE FEET!
Mago's comeback on Champ was a LiangHuBBB moment right there.
Breakdown of the Good vs. Evil MvC3 match
[GOOD] (non-Phoenix) [EVIL] (Phoenix)
Noel Brown 1-0 Detrimantix
Marlin Pie 1-1 Detrimantix
PR Rog 1-2 Detrimantix
Justin Wong 2-2 Detrimantix
Combofiend 3-2 Detrimantix
Noel Brown 3-3 Filipino Champ
Marlin Pie 4-3 Filipino Champ
PR Rog 5-3 Filipino Champ
Justin Wong 5-4 Filipino Champ
Combofiend 5-5 Filipino Champ
Noel Brown 5-6 Flocker
Marlin Pie 5-7 Flocker
PR Rog 5-8 Flocker
Justin Wong 6-8 Flocker
Combofiend 6-9 Flocker
Noel Brown 7-9 Tokido
Marlin Pie 8-9 Tokido
PR Rog 9-9 Tokido
Justin Wong 10-9 Tokido
Combofiend 11-9 Tokido
Noel Brown 11-10 Viscant
Marlin Pie 11-11 Viscant
PR Rog 11-12 Viscant
Justin Wong 12-12 Viscant
Combofiend 13-12 Viscant
FINAL SCORE: GOOD wins over EVIL 13-12
GOOD stats:
Noel Brown- 2-3
Marlin Pie- 2-3
PR Rog- 2-3
Justin Wong- 3-2
Combofiend- 3-2
EVIL stats:
Detrimantix- 2-3
Filipino Champ- 3-2
Flocker- 4-1
Tokido- 0-5
Viscant- 3-2
Team Good + TOKIDO > Team Evil.
Yeah I'm salty.
^
If they had Clockwork on the team instead of Detrimantix and basically any other decent Phoenix player on the team instead of Tokido, it would have been a wash for Team Evil. It's too bad Mine or Rahsaan didn't go, I guess.
I see JWong as 4-1, not 3-2, lone loss to Flocker, who, by the way, played one of the slipperiest Zeros I've ever seen. Yeah yeah, Tron spam helped, but he was untouchable for all 4 of his wins. Wong's patience was the only thing that got him the W over Flocker.
man I see a lot of this
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94...
Poongko playing now
> showing rape on stream
> I seriously hope Spooky doesn't do this
Oh wait.
lol I'm watching this and the Boondocks kickball episode.
Skisonic's dismissal of Eventhubs sounded like a diss to me. They are one of the sponsors of the tourney. Respect due.
good job Wolfkrone winning when it didn't matter anymore :/
TEAM USA vs. TEAM WORLD
Dieminion 0-1 Tokido
Ricky Ortiz 0-2 Tokido
PR Rog 1-2 Tokido
Justin Wong 2-2 Tokido
Wolfkrone 2-3 Tokido
Dieminion 2-4 Uryo
Ricky Ortiz 3-4 Uryo
PR Rog 3-5 Uryo
Justin Wong 4-5 Uryo
Wolfkrone 5-5 Uryo
Dieminion 5-6 Poongko
Ricky Ortiz 5-7 Poongko
PR Rog 5-8 Poongko
Justin Wong 5-9 Poongko
Wolfkrone 5-10 Poongko
Dieminion 5-11 Mago
Ricky Ortiz 5-12 Mago
PR Rog 6-12 Mago
Justin Wong 6-13 Mago (Team World clinches here)
Wolfkrone 7-13 Mago
Dieminion 7-14 Momochi
Ricky Ortiz 8-14 Momochi
PR Rog 9-14 Momochi
Justin Wong 9-15 Momochi
Wolfkrone 9-16 Momochi
FINAL SCORE: TEAM WORLD beats TEAM USA 16-9
TEAM USA stats
Dieminion- 0-5
Ricky Ortiz- 2-3
PR Rog- 3-2
Justin Wong- 2-3
Wolfkrone- 2-3
TEAM WORLD stats
Tokido- 3-2
Uryo- 2-3
Poongko- 5-0
Mago- 3-2
Momochi- 3-2
It was even till Poongko came in and opened the floodgates. Both sides played pretty sloppy though.
@100
I mean that would be the same as US not using Mike Ross, F Champ etc.
Actually yeah Mike has shown to hold his own against these guys and F Champ is also pretty capable really the Poongko factor is the only thing, in the end a lot of chocking in the US side.
was wondering about team usa...
2 rufus players, should had put 1 rufus player and put fchamp dhalsim instead, and choosing between jwong and ricky is debatable, and as for dieminion who went 0-5 i would say mike ross would had been a better choice and has a better chance getting at least 1-2 wins for team usa! so yeah... i kinda agree with grimmjow316
lol @ Mike Ross and F Champ being as big to team USA as Daigo and Fuudo for team World. You trolling or are you just that stupid?
I respect Krone picking Dieminion over his other options even though he got blown up. Krone and Dieminion own East coast tournaments free. Mike Ross owns nothing for free except an asston of stream monsters slobbering on his nuts.
Just goes to show how ass the East coast is, though.
Reason is these guys have actually taken on those players from the japanese teams on more often hence have at least a wee bit more exp. not a lot but could have tipped the scales.
^You really think it was the character that failed him? I mean he did 2 wake up ex flash kicks in a row when he could have just used the meter to cancel. Even UltraDavid said it was one of the dumbest decisions he's ever seen.
@112
I completely agree with you that his 2 wake up ex flash kicks in a row was the wrong decision... really wrong... but he played very solid against the rest of the World team. I think he just buckled under the pressure.
Let's remember he's playing the best Fei, Seth, cody, Sakura, and Akuma. He didn't win a game but I don't think any other Guile could of have done better. He didn't lose because of skill, lack of knowledge, or technique. That's why I argue it's mainly character. Sure he made two bad decisions but that shouldn't define him.
@108
I don't think you understand how well Mike plays on home turf, not to mention how good he's been in the past against Tokido and Mago. Yeah, he's pretty fraudlike, but the man can clutch it out with the best of them.
Why so GDLK, Poongko? Why so GDLK?
I was quite disappointed by Tokido...he played really sloppy! Props to Momochi and Uryo for dealing with some crazy-bad
matchups...and of course Flocker...wow, what a showing!
Justin Wong taunting Uryo was such a fail!
@115 Mike did well against Tokido? He usually gets beat by Tokido.
Dieminion may be the best Guile in US, but to be fair to him.. there's no Seth, Cody or Sakura that played in the US like those people.
Its good though. This will help Justin Wong to think hard on who to pick for Canada Cup. I would've voted for Dieminion to be one of them before but now I'm not sure. Mike Ross may be a fraud but I agree that he would atleast can possibly limit the damage slightly a bit by getting one or two wins.
can somebody tell why some people think Mike Ross is a "fraud"? Just Asking.
@119
People are just talking crap and underrating Mike Ross. He is a great player that has proven himself in multiple majors and against many overseas players in clutch situations. I don't mind that Mike didn't play on Team USA and we got to see Dieminion, but i'm fairly certain Mike would have gotten at least one or two wins.
When you have two teams that are fairly even in ability for the most part, it's almost a lost cause when you have just one person in both teams (Poongko) that comes in and sweeps the entire opposition lol.
Stupid commentators. It was so obvious he x-factored to not let Phoenix pop DP.
@119
Mike Ross is not a fraud, and he's not godlike. He's fraudlike.
@116
If it came down to one game, Mike would beat him. Last time they played they went 3-2, but it was right down to the wire on the last game. Either way he'd have a better chance than Dieminion, at least in that matchup.
Now that I think about it though, I MIGHT be wrong on the Mike/Tokido match. Don't quote me on it.
Stream chat is so lame. Derp let's all shout weaboo and mock anime cuz everyone is doing it.
People need to stop crying about the teams and just take it for what it is worth. They are exhibition matches and people are entitled to choose whoever they want. I'm pretty sure no one would have thought Flocker should have been chosen for the EC team in Marvel and look what happened. No one wants to see the same people play exhibitions over and over especially when they are already playing each other in the tournament year after year.
A guy like Dieminion has made a name for himself time and time again in EC tournaments and getting the opportunity to represent the US in a match like this is something he deserved. Wolfkrone doesn't strike me like the type of guy who is picking his players based on a popularity contest. I know he went 0-5 but you never know until you get a shot.
If you believe Marn actually has money or a steady stream of income, you're a fool.
i thought marn won like 50k on betting NFL games, or something.
spooky! take skisonics place on the mic please ha
"If SF4 was actually a good game, we would see Wong, Ricky, and Combofiend at the top of every tournament."
lol?
@152 their so broken they must have banned them... No seriously people just complain to much about them saying they are broken yes they ha e good tools but it's not like it's impossible to beat them
SMH. Mago just can`t win a tournament, even when Daigo is not around. sigh
Poongko got beaten by Uryo. bad matchup, never seen him so free :(
What the ffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkk????????
Happened to Poongko? Did Uryo get much better at playing that match up or what?
@#172
or he obviously got smashed by him at some point haha
Americans need to stop complain about tiers. They use Yun and yang in the tournament and now top 8 you have Cody, sakura, akuma, rufus ...
Poongko started playing worse in top 16. Maybe he was tired or something..or nerves got to him, but he wasn't at his best. Normally his Yomi and execution is spot on, but he started missing links, punishes and generally started second guessing himself.
Still a beast though. Easily the best player outside of Japan.
It was a bad matchup for Seth also, it was from the best Sakura player.
MOMOCHI!!!
About time he won a tournament of his own. He got 2nd place at SBR last year, he got 2nd place at Shadowloo Showdown, he got 2nd place at Godsgarden 4, and he finally got 1st place here at SBV!!!
@181
But at Godsgarden 4, the match between Poongko and Uryo was very close and down to the wire. It was nothing like what happened here tonight.
So US is free even though they did eliminate and beat some nap players I swear the logic of weaboos sometimes.
Mago I don't see as a great tournament player, IE a 2/3 format but would be killer in a FT10 type set-up. But I'm glad Momochi finally won and w/Cody too though gotta admit was rooting for Tokido, Uryo, Poongko, PR Rog, and even Justin Wong. Hell anybody in top 16 (minus Marn)
What do you think these players are doing? Isn't it obvious?
They know once 2012 comes out Yun, Yang and Fei will no longer be top tier, so they switched out for Cody (good buffs coming), and Akuma (high tier since vanilla).
Man WTF??? I really wanted to see this fighter between Jago & Yipes and now the stream is STUCK WTF?????
So why did Momochi win this year? BECAUSE GAMERBEE WASN'T THERE TO BEAT HIM! Just kidding. Congrats to Momochi for taking the grand prize. He deserves it....though I still wish Gamerbee had attended to defend his title...
Also, is anyone else as shocked as me to see how many Yun were in the top 16???
Look at the list of SSF players and uryo isn't sponsored man he is whopping sponsored dudes left and right he needs to be picked up his Sakura play is on point and momochi beasting with Cody he has been pretty viscous of late it's nice to see my 2 favorite characters tearing the scene up
then why don't use you Phoenix and win some tournaments? IF momochi would win the tournament with Yun, Americans will complain about how yun takes no skill. And Americans use Yun and Yang in the tournaments. Americans is land or the free and love to complain.
@207 That's strange... because if I remember correctly all of the winners of SBO quals, major tourneys, and more had no Yun and Yang as the winners.
Only way to go is down when you are one of the best. -shrug- Good job Combo!
@216 You need one thing to prove anything wrong and Darealest (218) and I are proof.
Mash A!!!! ROFL! Never get a Dark Phoenix mirror match.
Viscant exposed! Flocker is legit. Dat Zero. On a side note wtf with the feathers lol. Crazy
Someone please .gif that nonsense.
This game... lol!
What it is about yun/yang is that honestly AE hasn't been out for an eternity honestly so when the cane in the blew up the scene but fighters have now had plenty of fights to learn the matchups lime the back of their hand so they are still effective high level players are catching on and learning that's one reason people gotta quit whining all the time because honestly it takes a very long time to break a game open and with all the changes always happening players have to
Learn alot of crap all over again 3S has been in high level play for a retarded amount of time that's a game that is broke open reason why uryo picks up Sakura and now we drool over her most people didn't know she
Was capable of the things uryo does with her but she has always had these tools people just aren't willing to learn instead
People whin complain place blame we can't really pass judgement so harsh on characters when in reality this game is young compared to games like MVC2 and 3S that were played for a grip of time and everything you could learn or possibly find out has been found
"Posted by Dark_Pinoy on October 16, 2011 at 9:32 p.m. #216
I call Filipino Champ or Flocker winning."
WHO CALLED IT!? I AM SOOOOOOOO PSYCHIC!!!
BWHAHAHAHA The Dark Phoenix has blessed both Viscant and Flocker to make it into Grand Finals but like I said yesterday I shall bless only Flocker with the full power of the Phoenix Force! Haters meet your new Phoenix playing Champion!
Flocker's regular Phoenix is really really good.
STFU AKRO he beat Combofiend with Phoenix no Xfactor I call that good Phoenix playing hater Now, BURN INTO FLAMESSSSS....
haters Phoenix > your skill. Phoenix players take all your money and won all the majors, you mad?
Ask not of the Dark Phoenix you peasant #247 and stay mad!
AHAHAHAHAH Akro keep thinking limited air play and silly meter ATC's will help you defeat the Dark Phoenix, let's wait and see.....
oh I know, I've already played Umvc3. You'll see, not me. :3 Just remember, I called it.
Now people actually have to learn the character, work harder, and not get free wins. Have fun buddy. Done responding to an obvious troll. I mean jeez, get a new name. Too obvious.
Choco Blanka is gonna give her man some victory lovin' when he gets back home. Congrats to Momochi and also congrats to Flocker for taking the tournament. Basically riding the Phoenix train to the end of Vanilla MvC3's lifecycle.
All in all it was a great event. A lot of excellent matches this weekend.
Marn has Best Zero
Fanatiq Best Magneto
DJ Huoshen Best Felicia
ClockWork has Best Dr. Doom
FC Jago Best Dante, Trish & Wesker
Filipino Champ Best Phoenix(Cheapiest.LoL)
Justin Wong Best Akuma, Wolverine, & Storm
Combofiend Best She-Hulk, Spencer, & Task Master
PR Balrog, Flash Metriod & Carky D Tie for Best Tron
If a Phoenix Player is still getting free wins off of you please stfu and enjoy your 9th lord status and below....
@244
The Twins were never a problem. The community went into a mass hysteria panic mode six months before they ever played it because Ono San said "We've put Strong characters in the game!"
Just about every Online Twin is Free. And EVERY tournament that didn't include Daigo has had piss poor Twin representation in the top 8/16/32 much less winning the damn thing!
Instead, we've seen MORE DIVERSE top 8's in AE than we saw in Super or Vanilla! But guess what? It's too late. People cried so freaking loud that Capcom is re-balancing it for us. Yippie!
Let's hope AE2012 is the End all be all of character balance. Because I can't help feeling like people Smoked Vanilla AE before it ever had a chance!
1) Cody!?!
2) Rufus!?!
3) Sakura!?!
4) Seth!?!
5) Akuma!?!
Not to mention there were Makotos, Vipers, Zangiefs all up their too. But AE only gives Fei, Yun and Yang a chance to win right?
I just want to give shouts out to all of the players that DIDN'T cower before the Yun Army when this game was announced. The last year of tournament results has proven that we were correct.
Here it is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ibunue...
LEGENDARY
@259 Problem is with AE2012 that Akuma got more nerfs than Yun,Fei and Viper (why is beyond my understanding) so you only will see Tokido and probably Infiltration in the Top 8 in tourneys...
The Stream Archive isnt playing for me, anybody know whats wrong?
I'd also like to add that I know Fei, Yun and Yang are really strong. Maybe the Best in AE!
But at least people have to come in! They have to rush you with these characters. And the fact is that most people aren't good enough with them to affectively do anything!
On the other hand. Sonic Boom, Tiger Shot, Sonic Boom, Tiger Shot! Any online scrub can run that BS and think they're Legit!
(I have no problem with Guile or Sagat, just saying.)
The game WILL have Top Tier characters fellas. Let's hope the power shift is a favorable one.
yeah yun and yang has to go in for them to win and they have low life. If you guess right couple of time, you kill them.
I would rather fight online yun and yang all day, then top tier sagat, Guile, Ryu. that's jut me. it looks like people would rather die by tiger and fireball, then genijin.
MvC3 blowing up the salt mines. Yeessssss. LLLLLLLLLLLL wins majors. Yeeessssssss.
Question stream monsters. Who's the real fraud, Viscant, or Niitsuma? Best thing Ultimate can do is to make Phoenix irrelevant. I don't care if she's actually broken or not, if she turns high level Marvel into the complete joke that was grand finals of Season's Beatings, that's not a good look.
@ #264 i don't know. I haven't play much video games for last few months. I'm almost never online.
Damn I missed the finals. Hunting down Youtube for Poongko vs Mike Ross, Justin Wong and Uryo matches should be fun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ibunue...
10 more years please. i could watch this forever
@265
> Still calling Viscant a fraud after getting 3rd at Devastation and bracket reset with Flocker and 2nd at Season's Beatings
I seriously hope you guys don't do this.
@259 Aluppoj: I couldn't agree more man! Well said, well said!
Only 1 Fei and 1 Yang in the top 13! Where are all the whiners?
Momochi...he finally won a big major! Mad props for winning Season's Beatings with Cody!
It's also funny that a lot of top players are dropping the twins.
Momochi: Yun - Cody. Pr Rog: Yang - Rog. Justin: Yang, Yun - Rufus. Ricky: Yang - Rufus. Marn: Yun - Dudley.
some quick points
-Mashing crouching L was a game of chicken, first one to stop loses momentum which is terrible when fighting xfactor dark phoenix (captain obvious?). It's happened before, I don't understand why you would want to block a steady stream of little fireballs that lead to your death when you have a solid option for defending against that.
- flocker has been playing since the golden era of cvs2/mvc2 and he was good in both.
- #236 = best post ever posted on eventhubs
@278
I don't need to look anywhere. As a highly experienced player I know how good they are.
I also know that it isn't that hard to develope a strategy to beat them.
You see, it isn't a question of "is there a Top Tier?" because some character will always be considered "The Best", AE2012 will be no different.
The real question is "Who do you want to be the Top Tier?" At least Yun, Yang and Fei are hand to hand fighters that require the user to Come in if they want a win!
It will be interesting to see the sway in power for 2012 version.
If you think watching charge characters is boring, just wait to SSF4 v2012, "Scrub Edition".
Honda mirrors? Seriously, this is what the scrubs want? Not a single Yun in top 16?
Basically, Capcom is trying to take the skill out the game. There will be no reward for great execution and setups. And yes, i am saying it, Yun takes execution and skill to win with.
As usual, listening to James Chen cry about Yun, is so annoying. Then he goes on to say that Yun is probably not even the best in the game. If he's not the best, wtf are you constantly crying about?
v2012 is going to suck.
@ Aluppoj im not 1 to complain about twins, but you need to understand they couldnt be left as they were. finding a strategy is fine, but certain characters are helpless, i mean helpless against them. look at the fall of dhalsim, he's almost irrelevant now because of them. abel and a few others get slaughtered by them. america's yun and yangs are sub par, just like their vanilla sagats were, which is why twins were no where to be found at top 16. EVO was infested by japanese twins, which is why the top 16 was full of them.
@281 foolly:
The fall of dhalsim? Sim has always been a very polar character. Against zoning character he is super strong. Against rush-down that can get in, he is very weak. In the USA 90% of the people use downback characters, that have bad matchups against sim.
Do you really think 2012 is going to be that much better for sim? You think he is going to do well against the twins, rufus, abel, cammy, ibuki etc... Any character that can get in easily will beat him.
When FChamp, a top US Sim player lost to Honda and Abel, what did that have to do with the twins. Nothing.
THawk can't beat Blanka in Super or AE. THawk cannot beat blanka in 2012. Does this mean Blanka has to be nerfed because he makes characters no longer viable?
The fact is Capcom is nerfing all the technical, aggresive characters in the game. They are doing this to attract new players - they have said this.
SO, the easier a character is to use and less options he has, the stronger he will be. That is retarded.
The reason Starcraft stuck around so long is because Blizzard catered only to the elite players. While all the scrubs cried about rushing; they only listened to the best of the best regarding concepts. I only wish capcom would do this.
sim has always had bad matches, but the twins is ridiculous for him. abel is an exception, but he himself is balanced cause he has some pretty tough matches. viper cammy rufus are tough but sim can win. the twins is a different story, every sim player will tell you with the existence of yun, he is done at tournies because you will see more of them than abels. losing to honda just meant he faced a better player, sh1t happens. dive kicks, 3 frame jabs, unthrowable command grabs, im sorry is just a bit too powerful for certain characters who have crap wake up options. some of those tools needed to be nerfed to balance out the game, period. even in japan the twins are frowned seriously upon'd. many tourny players have called AE CRAP, and they matter more imo than forum monsters on eventhubs, who cant for some odd reason deal with charge characters
Interesting discusiion. I do worry that 2012 is gonna be turtle friendly. I never played with Yun/Yang but I'd rather get blown up by supreme agression that fall to some war of attrition bullsh1t from some boom-happy Guile. There's no fun to be had in defensive SF.
I'm in agreement with NerfGuile. Fck down-back. A game is supposed to entertain, not bore.
@279 xD alright. I forgot about online warriors who know how to stop Yun, Yang and Fei with ease and have the perfect anti-Phoenix strats for MvC. Funny how you dudes are never seen doing anything in tournaments yet you always have this godlike strats.
Stick to theory fighter. One tournament that isn't dominated by top tiers and all the godlike theory fighters come out.
@285
Do I have to be a Tournament Pro to READ Tournament results? And I'm no "Phoenix Pro", I don't know the first thing about it. So I wouldn't come on here acting like I have that knowledge when I clearly do not.
What I do know is SF. And I know that the AE Top Tiers pale on comparison to the Vanilla and Super Top Tiers!
Stay Salty, sounds like the Twins have not been kind to you. You must main Hakan right?
My Chun Li blows them up all day long!
i was watching the finals, but when PR Rog got eliminated i just turned it off. watching viscant play is horrible, and having to watch a dark phx mirror is just to much.
shout outs to flocker, character select screen vs capcom 3 seasons beatings champion... lets all hope for UMvC3
@286
AE top tier pales in comparison to Super top tier? By what logic? Yun, Yang, and Fei Long were (and I'm assuming still are) classified as S-tier by top Japanese pros, which means that they're not just top tier. It means you have basically three choices on the character select screen if you're serious about winning.
There are 7 Yuns, 2 Yangs, and 2 Fei Longs on the Japanese arcade ladder top 20. Yes, those three characters represent over 50% of the best in Japan. The only Nagoya Street Battle winning team that didn't involve at least one of these characters (often more than one, and many in the top 3), was the NSB in January, not that long after the game came out. The winner of SBO was Yun/Yang, and there were 5 twins in top 4. The winner of GodsGarden was Fei Long and the runner-up was Yun. etc., etc.
Show me Super characters that had this kind of dominant run.
You guys have the wrong stats for good vs evil. Justin went 4-1.
You guys have Noel 2-3, Marlin 2-3, PR 2-3, Justin 3-2, Combo 3-2.
2+2+2+3+3 = 12
@289
Is it a surprise to you that Japan has the highest usage numbers and stats of anyone/anywhere in the World?
They had the NEW CHARACTERS like 5 months before anyone else could even touch them! That was before E.Ryu and ONI were even unlocked!
And I'm not trying to say they are weak! I'm not saying they are easy! I'm saying they are preferable to....
Vanilla: Sagat, Rufus, Ryu!
Super: Guile, Honda, Bison!
@292
It's not just that they have the highest usage numbers, it's that those characters are consistently the most dominant in the Japanese scene, and the Japanese skill level is, on average, way, way above the rest of the world. That makes it a better gauge of character effectiveness than, say, the US scene.
If you want to say that you prefer a super top tier of Yun, Yang, and Fei Long to a top tier of Guile, Honda, and Bison, that's fine. That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. What you can't say is that Guile, Honda, and Bison are anywhere near as dominant in Super as Yun, Yang, and Fei Long are in AE. You just don't have the evidence or character knowledge to support that.
@280 NERFGuile
You are 100% right. Yun takes execution to do well at the same time, no reason why he should be able to do a full screen, ex lunge punch without fear of being punished or the ridiculous range on his command grab. then again that's why as a Cody player I make sure Zonk is ALWAYS charged. There are viable strats, tons but there are tweaks that can be made to avoid brainless moves like EX lunge punch or f-mk into U1, really?
@294 and NERFGuile
Yun dose not take execution, he is an extremely easy character to use and be effective with.
SF4 has never been about execution combo wise and difficulty of characters. There are only a few characters that are truly difficult to use, of the top of my head Viper and Gen are the only the only characters that are truly difficult to use. SF4 has always been about footsies, zoning, reading your opponent, and now setups (do to the fact that OS's have come a long way from Vanilla to AE). v2012 is not gonna favor defense because the balances are based of AE. Yun/Yang may have been nerfed but there are alot of great offensive characters in the game (Sakura, Cody, Makoto, Viper to name a few).
If you are complaining about down back then why are you playing this game? AE was not about offense but more about setups, OS's, and footsies then anything, and that will carry over to v2012.
@293
Stating the Japanese arcade top scores is hardly proof that they are OP my friend. No more than saying Hakan is OP because 25 people on XBL have achieved A rank with him!
The last five Majors leading up to EVO, EVO itself, and most tournaments since EVO have NOT been won by either Yun or Yang!
The community has a mind set that if you pick one of the top 3 in AE you get an auto win. It just isn't the case.
I'd argue that AE is the MOST BALANCED of the entire 4 series!
The low tiers have never been better than they are in AE. Guy, Seth, Makoto, Hakan, Gouken, etc, etc, etc are all better than they were in Super or Vanilla.
Meanwhile the upper mid tier received plenty of nerfs. Ryu, Balrog, Bison, Chun Li, Guile, etc, etc, etc.
I also feel that AE's lower tier characters (with buffs) have a much better chance against Fei, Yun, Yang than they would have against Vanilla Sagat or Super Guile.
The problem is that you don't see all the angles. You just go by what the pros tell you.
@282
bro, blizzard deliberately made it so you could only click 12 units to reduce rush effectiveness. throughout the life cycle of starcraft, most (read: all) balance patches were done in the first year. the game was balanced through maps and even then some pro maps had to be replaced early because of massive balance issues (demon's forest). you can make any game competitive but in order to to ensure that a game has a long and popular life span it has to have an easy learning curve for beginners which is what brood war had. forcing yourself to walk into walls for a month isn't some kind of rite of passage to becoming a competitive player.
@293
"What you can't say is that Guile, Honda, and Bison are anywhere near as dominant in Super as Yun, Yang, and Fei Long are in AE. You just don't have the evidence or character knowledge to support that."
Can you please explain to me why we "can't" make the accurate claim that SSF4-Guile and SSF4-Honda were even more dominant than the 3 S-Tiers of AE?
There have been many people who openly said that SSF4-Guile and SSF4-Honda were worse than the 3 S-Tiers of AE. And if you're talking about dominance, let's not leave SSF4-Cammy and her broken TKCS out of the equation.
In AE, the gap of advantage between the Top-tiers and the lowest-tiers are WAY smaller than they were in SSF4. In AE, the lowest tiers of the game have a much easier time winning against Fei, Yun, and Yang than was the case in SSF4.
In SSF4, people who used Cody, Guy, Makoto, Dan, T,Hawk, Hakan, and Dee-Jay had virtually no chance of winning against SSF4-Guile or SSF4-Honda. Fei, Yun, and Yang does not have such a dominance over the low-tiers of AE than Guile and Honda did back in the days of Super-SF4.
Plus, there was a large portion of the SSF4-cast who had no good way of answering to Cammy's TKCS back in SSF4. Everybody in AE has a way to deal with Yun's divekicks.
When Capcom made all three of Yun's, they knew exactly what they were putting into the game, and they also knew how to give everyone ways to deal with them. You can't say the same for Cammy's TKCS.
Capcom openly stated that they Cannon Strike was nenver meant to be that low and they didn't even realize that the move existed until Sakonoko abused the move during Godsgarden Online #2.
The fact that they didn't even realize that she was able to CS that low is the main reason why so many characters is SSF4 had no real ways to deal with it.
@280
James Chen is a douche. He's crying about Yun and saying that AE-Yun needs his divekicks nerfed while asking for Cammy to have TKCS back at the same time even when Cammy's TKCS was worse than all three of AE-Yun's divekicks combined.
@280
You know what?
If I didn't know better, I would say that THE_GODDAME_MASTER and James Chen are one in the same.
Both of them are constantly crying about Yun and both of them are also constantly asking Capcom to implement changes that will make Cammy the most broken, OP, and dominant character of the game.
@297
Vanilla sagat didnt won evo, how many sagat in top 8evo ,2009?Zero
Did a sagat player won tougeki in vanilla?no.
Sagat was a tank and easy to win ok, but few player really master him and won big major with him cuz he got big weakness( like weird hitbox,slow walkspeed,bad footsies)
The only weakness yun and yang get its their low health.They are godlike in everything else.But yes u need to train seriously to win with them.But they got a better potential.They will rush u down all day.
@302
Yun didn't win EVO either Bro Face. The BEST Yun in the World was present, and he lost to C.Viper and Seth.
So who's OP?
My god guys... I NEVER said Fei, Yun and Yang were bad! No one needs to convince me that they are strong!
But I've made my points.
@297
Japanese arcade scores aren't proof of anything, you're right, but they're good, solid evidence of something. I've already said that over 50% of the top 20 is Yun/Yang/Fei, but what I failed to mention is that 80% of the top 10 consists of these characters. 80%! And you're really going to use EVO as an example of Team Hong Kong's non-OP status? Really? Get better at arguing things.
You could argue that AE is the most balanced of the series, but you'd be wrong. I'm not just using the word of top players to prove my point, I'm using actual hard evidence, such as arcade scores and tournament results. Do you know how many majors Guile/Honda/Bison won? Guess.
If you said 2, you'd be right. And that's IF you consider Daigo using Guile against Mago at Canada Cup a legitimate effort to win.
@299
You can't make that claim because it's not supported by strong evidence. Feel free to try to provide some, though. "Because some guys said so," is not enough, btw.
It's kind of hilarious that you use Capcom's design intentions as evidence -against- the OP status of Team Hong Kong. Yeah, Capcom knew exactly what they were doing when they created Yun and Yang, and that was to inject intentionally overpowered characters into the game. The "Heroes and Villains" philosophy. Well, they succeeded, and the community has correctly reacted strongly against it.
Also, it may be true that AE low-tier fights Team Hong Kong better than Super low-tier fights Super high-tier. Too bad that's not the definition of balance. You seem to be confused on this point, so I'd suggest that you look up what balance actually is in fighting game terms.
Finally, if Cammy was actually as broken as you make her seem in Super, you'd think she'd be more prevalent in major top 8's huh?
@Fivec you are very correct sir but even with your super solid proof alot of these random dudes are still going to argue with you that AE is balanced even though they are dead wrong.
@Idiots saying AE is more balanced then Super
You can even go on paper an list everyone strengths and weaknesses and Yun/Yang/Fei will come out on top. The game is balanced without those characters but with them they make a huge part of the cast obsolete because they cannot hang with the Hong Kong army.
@grabityfree #302
Tougeki is a team tournament. Vanilla sagat in on the team that won tougeki.(Akuma, sagat, Rufus) Second place, third, 4th place had a sagat on the team too. please do research first.
@309
Dude, you are great at being a douch.
The low tiers and the high tiers have a smaller gap in AE than any other version, but that's not closer to Balance?
Bringing the Top Tiers Down and the Low Tiers Up brings you closer to the Middle!
Didn't Nerfed Guile recently win a Major? Didn't Seth win his first Major since AE came along? Now Cody...
Funny we didn't see this kind of variety in Super or Vanilla. AE must be broken? Only the Top three can win right? WRONG!
Try not being such a complete A$$hole.
@311
I didn't say that the low tier and high tier characters have a smaller gap in AE, I said that it's possible that some low tier characters can fight high tier more easily in this game than in Super (like T. Hawk vs. the twins, for instance). That doesn't mean the gap is smaller or the game is more balanced. That you don't understand this calls into question your understanding of game balance in general.
If AE Guile and/or Seth won majors, that's news to me. You're actually right that Super didn't experience a lot of variety in terms of major winning characters. Lots of Rufus and C. Viper wins (heavily offensive characters, btw) thanks to Justin Wong and Wolfkrone. Again, only 2 (debatably only 1 legitimate) wins from Guile/Honda/Bison.
I'll not be an a--hole when you learn to argue your points better. If you are called on your stupidity, you might think twice about arguing your opinions as fact next time.
@312
They are My Opinions, and I never stated them to be facts. Are you making things up?
It's funny that you'll admit (to some degree) that AE's low tiers are more viable than they've ever been before. And you'll clearly admit that the Variety of different characters winning Majors is vastly more varied than any previous version of SF4.
They you turn around and claim what? That I "don't know how to argue."
Great defense.
Well guess what? I'm not trying to argue. I'm stating an opinion based on the tournament results over the last 6 months and my personal online experience.
Maybe you'll think I'm gloating, idk, but 95% of the twins I face online are free!
Now maybe in the Japanese Arcades these Yun/Yang players are Gods. But only a few of them even travel to these major tournaments. And with the exception of Daigo and Fuudo, these cats haven't had the best luck.
Personally I like Yun and Yang. Nemo is one of my favorite players. He was inspirational when I picked up Chun Li.
In the end I could really care less. I don't use any of the Top Three. But I never had a problem facing them either.
IMO, AE was fine as it was. If you don't agree that's fine. But my reading comprehension is wonderful, and I know how to state my opinion just fine.
Thank you.
@313
"Take the S-tier characters out of AE and it might be a pretty well balanced game."
Ok, welcome to what I've been saying all along! I'm glad we finally agree.
Because the FACT is you and I could argue all night about which game had the best Top Tiers. Personally I think Vanilla had the strongest Top Tiers.
So for a moment let's just remove the Top Three from every game. And Presto! AE takes the cake in the balance department!
Again, I'm not saying Fei, Yun and Yang aren't strong. And in the hands of a Japanese PRO they might be the best characters EVER created for all I know.
But that's NOT the level of the community! The fact that they are strong is the only reason any of these kids even try to use them! If they receive heavy Nerfing for 2012 I promise you they will disappear from online use! Ala Rufus anyone?
Oh well, more people to use Ryu, Ken and Guile I guess.
Fun talking to you.
The level of the US community, especially online, is frankly not up to par. Balance is determined by how well these characters would perform when utilized by top echelon players of equal skill. At mid-level, balance doesn't mean that much, so yeah, if you're using your online experience to form your opinions of balance, I can see why you think these things.
Also, for the record, I did not say that AE tournament results are much more varied than Super results. Again, members of Team Hong Kong are ever-present in the winning teams of Japan.
Well, I'm using it as a factor to say the least.
Take SF33s for example:
10+ years of people watching Japanese pros videos on YouTube. The community was Brainwashed before most of the youngsters ever even played the game!
I feel the community had damned AE before the gates even opened dude. Based on Ono's comments and Pro feedback. But games change when they hit the 3,000,000 people in the community.
I can't help but feel that the Japanese Pros you speak of would be doing just fine regardless of who they picked. Some might argue that Mago had greater success with Sagat than he's had with Fei Long.
And Daigo? The Highest ranked Yun on Earth takes fourth place at EVO! After winning it two years in a row! The second time with an upper mid tier Ryu!!!
I see what your saying man. But you need to see that there is a flip side to your coin.
Cheers.
i think people should stop using USA as a measure. USA is all about individuals. no SF4 US sagats ever won a major. Rufus must have been top tier until we factor in the japanese effect with daigo and RYU. same with super, the USA players and their tier list were all irrelevant once again, to daigo's ryu (EVO). Momochi's mid tier KEN and Gamerbee's mid tier adon (Seasons Beating). the charge characters won nothing jus like vanilla sagat. so using yun not winning seasons beating as proof he doesnt deserve nerfs is moronic imo, as US players who use top tiers dont win a damn thing, regardless of which version of SF4 we are playing. 1 of the S tiers won EVO (once again being controlled by a japanese, NON US, player) and there was no non US, japanese twin at SBV.
with this said, im not saying i dislike the twins, i just think they need to be toned down slightly, because right now some characters are not worth the trouble at the twins current state. the nerf to charge characters was not a bad one, u still have to work hard to beat them if you are not using an S-Tier. AE is very balanced in my opinion, but im sorry, the top 3 ruin that balance. the effects are being felt fully in Japan, where the tier list actually matters and has an effect on tournament results. take SBO (twins win). GodsGarden (Fei wins) NSB( if it isnt MDR's or Momochi and Kindevu's yun, its Mago's Fei OCVing fools).
@spotlesseden i spoke about 2k9 the winner was kyabetsu with viper and Gosho against iyo and shiro.
there are just 2 Wolverines in the top 16 of mvc3, but 7 Weskers - but Wolvie gets seriously nerved
Season's Beatings!
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