Capcom's Christian Svensson wants to know how you'd improve fighting game lobbies in one of his latest series of posts on the Unity Boards.Can you review the power of a player host in a fighting game lobby?
Positives:
+ Create lobby specifically for friend's list.
+ Create lobby with rules that host feels is subjectively most fair or fun.
+ Boot players that send rude spam messages online or via headset.
+ Boot players that have a bad connection in comparison to others in lobby.
Negatives:
- Boot players because they lost to said player.
- Boot players because they do not like said player's fighting style.
- Boot players because they simply do not want to wait in a lobby in which the host themself created the lobby number. — WadeWilson
Svensson: Those negatives are really challenging to design counters for that don't break the reason why you have the ability to kick in the first place. I'm not sure playing "one last round" is the solution. Anyone else have any suggestions for better social design around fighting game lobbies?
The ability to boot someone because you lost to them or simply don't like their playstyle is a dumb option. — D3v
Svensson: And the lack of ability to boot someone for a legitimate reason is an equally dumb solution.
I'm looking for other alternatives.
I like the idea of the vote for the room, however what happens if it's a 2 man room? What happens if the host has a jerk friend or two who just do whatever he proposes because they want to?
At some point, you can try and design something to be idiotproof and the world will just create bigger idiots.
Tip from Fawaz.
If there is a way for the ban system to check certain parameters before allowing the ban such as connection quality or whether or not they have communicated it may help to fix the problem. The problem would be implementing it in a way that works.
being able to train somehow while waiting in line would be awesome, could have 10+ size lobbies then.
In SF?
-have the option to go into training mode while you wait for: opponents (like BlazBlue), and for your turn. when it's your turn... it should give some sort of prompt onscreen that it's your go, you can then press start or something to join the game (start + select) so there are no accidental joinings.
In MvC3?
-All of the above
-Spectator mode (well... it's still an issue until UMvC3 is out)
-More "comments", just 4 isn't enough... i need to be able to send things like (learning *** character) (pick your main) (is that it?)
-kick function
-also I've realized that SF4 is the only series with a replay channel... where i can invite friends to watch my replays... can we get something like this on Marvel? like maybe after a match we have a quick option to save the replay, then my friends can watch them from my player card?
fair enough, it's not something completely held towards a lobby... but it can be accessed in one! :D
Honestly there is nothing wrong with the way SSF4 handles lobbies other than adding the ready/not ready function like in mvc3 where u dont have to wait for the person to be idle....if they dont ready up, let um stay at the bottom.
Other than that I say screw worrying about lobby functions and focus more on improving the net code. What good are features if the online gameplay is too terrible to enjoy them?
I also like the idea of having the option to train while waiting for your match.
I would like the ability to leave a note if im not "ready-up" in Marvel or 3S:OE so im not getting kicked out because I had to go take a dump or go help someone with the groceries out of the car. Maybe a bubble that stays on saying BrB or Just Watching. Just something to give the host a heads up.
Without quality net coding all of these good ideas are pointless.
That, my friends is why automated matchmaking is important. Starcraft learned well and early back during its first iteration that having free lobbies meant people were going to pick opponents, intentionally farming noobs and dodging the better players in order to boost their own score, or avoid their bad matchups.
It's really silly to not expect people to game the system. Of course they'll try and take every possible advantage.
Ladder points, or in Capcom's case BP and PP should only be earned through auto-selected matches. Allow free lobbies, but basically make them scoreless, or have a different score entirely for wins earned in free vs in the official ladder.
to be honest I like what they did for MVC3, you cant kick anyone..but thats great, you can EASILY create a new lobby.
I seriously have waited for 15 minutes in a SF4 lobby and the dude would kick me RIGHT before my fight, this happened several times @ several different situations, it really sucks lol. They or looked at my PP or come up with some excuse.
@20 I'm all for being able to kick rude idiots, but I do hate the dumb azzes who host matches and then kick simply because they don't want to wait.....I was in a room in SF where this guy came in and owned the host...now mind you I had been waiting to test against this guy his Ryu was really good...idiot host couldn't wait to rematch so he kicked me... I went back in and when the host lost yet again he kicked me again LMAOOOOO
Ok here are my 2 thoughts on this.
1. Introduce a training room feature where you can train while waiting your turn.
2. Where the room has an even number of players why not ditch winner stays on and move to the computer randomly (or in some sort of symmetrical order) matches you all up meaning the waiting time is zero.
While were at it can we have the option to skip a turn.
@ #18
While the idea of automated matching is sound, it'll never work until they finally get the matchmaking itself right. I.E. no more matching a low level player with a high level one. Which seems to happen all too frequently. Atleast in SF4 and MvC3. No idea if 3SO and BB have the same issue or not.
@#23 as they have said on a few occasions they are sing the matchmaking system that sony and ms insist on
While were at it bring back Champs mode, the kind is dead long live the king
There is nothing wrong with SF4's lobby system. I realize for having integrity for the BP/PP system, matches really should be automated but I personally don't care about the points. I like hosting my own lobbies, and I kick anyone who isn't green bar, and play everyone who is. Yeah sure there are jerk hosts, but it would be worse if you were forced to play matches against laggy opponents. I would like to see a way to solve the "waiting in line" time for endless battle when the rooms have a ton of people in them. The suggested training mode to pass the time option sounds cool.
There's no problem with the lobby in SSF4 imo, just join lobbies with your friends or start your own. People should be allowed to kick for any reason they feel like, you can't force players to play with people who got a bad connection. I like that you can make your own 'lobby' in ranked so you can kick people with bad connections, too bad that feature isn't in marvel.
-bring back 1v1 player match WITH REPLAY like versus mode.
2man endless is okay but its annoying to go back to lobbyscreen >char select screen per match.
-There needs to be a 'search by good connection' priority, or a way to filter out non-green bars. Also I really wish they showed numerical pings instead of bars.
-The kicking system is fine.
In general its fine as it is.. It just needs a few tweeks..
Bring back the player vs player lobby that SF4 vanilla had.
- Give the host the option to change host in endless lobby, player match lobby and the replay lobby
A good way for the lobbies are as follows
1. have a training option while waiting
2. after the initial 2 have started there is no need to
enter into lobby again after the match, the winner
should go straight to the char select screen with "HERE
COMES YOUR NEXT OPPONENT!" display or something.
3. Lobby should have a BP/PP restriction if you want to
play a bracket of player skills and not random skills
4. There should be an option to only have 2 character
options to select from in tournament mode.
Thats all I can think off
lol it's MY friggin lobby. when I play 2-man lobby I kick the hell outta the next 2304520352930509564 mashing ryu. Why should I be forced to endure that?! I should still be able to decide who I play and who not. I hope they don't include some weird automatic system for that.
I find the idea "kick with reason" nice. a few presets and the other one knows what's going on. "You have been removed from this session due to - connection issue / - level difference etc
For the next game, it would be nice they join many of the options that MVC, SF, 3rd strike has. I don't mind the control the host has if they want to boot me because I beat them is ok. Is there room and there are plenty of other rooms or you can created your own. SFIV system I like, but I hate the lack of options. Like they should give you the option to watch, play against someone that is also waiting on the top match, or train. I like some of the options like 3rd strike would be better. Like ban some character or allow people that used a lot of these characters. That would improve on the practicing. Also the screens between matches needs to be reduce.
for some reason i never get to do arcade mode, and they're arcade achievements i will always miss out on due to this and the fact arcade-req mode never lets you finish a game. please in minimum 4 man endless lobbies, add an option to play in arcade mode, and prompt user when his endless slot is next to play. minimum 4 man, just incase so you dont keep others waiting for you
(I want interactive avatars during other matches like MK9. Hell, steal everything else from MK9 that's not game mechanics and all Capcom fighters will be 20% better!)
before i add my suggestions i will admit that when i first got SSF IV ( I got vanilla before Super SF IV) i was in my own room with friends and this crazy sagat player came in and destroyed me really badly. I kicked him and literally told him "sorry to kick you but your too good" and he responded "i understand i get that sometimes from people". Now mind you it was my lobby and i had no private slots on and all but still at least i told him why. Funny thing is til this day he is my online friend and i spar with him to test how better or worse i have gotten with my main.
My suggestions are :
1) Instead of just matching up bp try sometimes matching up pp some players have very high pp with low bp ( hope my wording isnt too confusing)
2) Show the players ping instead of bars because the player sometimes can be in green but once you start fighting he or she may lag like theres no tommorrow.
3) only allow kicking in private rooms and only in ranked matches before the match if the opponent has a horrible connection to disallow unfair matches from taking place.
4)automatically disallow players who send inappropriate messages to others from joining ranked or private rooms to people they are sending the messages too (timed ban perhaps?)
5)Put disconnectors in the same bracket so that they cant face those who do not disconnect.
oh and add back the championship mode from vanilla with a better connection system to increase the more serious competitors from the less serious ones ( the farther you got in the tougher and more serious your opponents were).
You shouldn't be able to boot people unless they have a poor connection or if they go against what you set the lobby to. Like 1000-2000 pp range and they exceed it, is the way I see it. Not liking someone's playstyle or because you don't feel like waiting for your turn after losing is bs.
All the 'negatives' listed in the article are problems with the PLAYERS who use the system, not the system itself. If a hosts kicks you because he lost to you or doesn't want to wait, then avoid that host. Simple as that. There's tons of other endless lobbies, and if that fails just create the lobby yourself. If I host a lobby, I should be able to kick players I don't want to play with, for whatever reason. Of course its a lot more polite to give a reason, so it would be cool for a kicking system that had prerecorded reasons such as "you have been kicked for- bad connection- friend wants to enter- to skilled etc.
Ranked on the other hand, should stay like the ssf4 system. Marvel's blind select system is atrocious. It makes no sense that I pick same region and get a laggy match, then have no choice but to probably play that same laggy person again.
They also forgot those people that only set up One-Round matches and just run away the entire match just to build up their Win ratio. It's annoying. Make Best 2 out of 3 rounds the default.
#49 SSF4. I don't like doing that because I like best 3 out of 5 as well, but maybe I should start.
I dont really think being able to boot for no reason is a bad thing, but if they really want to get a fix for it just make it vote-able and if there is a tie then the hosts choice wins simple right? but really though if you get booted its not a bad thing as long as you werent being rude or annoying it just shows that your opponents got incredibly salty lol
I'd just like to see more options, a tournament with 4 teams in where 2 teams take on eachother whilst the other 2 teams do the same and the winning teams meet in the final.
Character limitations where before a tourney everyone has to pick 1 character and stick with them till the end.
An option to get your team together and then join a game so theres no more messing about in team battles
The way I see Capcom improving some of the online features in SSF4ae are.
1. bring back player mode with a quick rematch feature like MvC3
2. for lag in a lobby, have a setting that only allows players with connections similar to yours and for people with bed connections or lag problems will not be able to enter the lobby (something similar to what Blazblue has.)
3. As for the ability to kick someone out of a lobby. I feel they should created a voting system to detemine whether or not the player stays. You might not want fight that player but or people might.
everything esle seems pretty fine to me.
Have the option to only play against players with Green Bars/Great Connections.