Add to the discussion yourself by telling us which EX move do you believe to be the strongest.
How to make a completely useless EX move megacheap - just make it safe on block.
The end. >_>
@13
Only doing 90dmg for an EX move kinda sucks.
I'd have to say Guy's EX Run. It absorbs 2 hits and 3 on the stop animation. BROKEN!
lol @ hater noobs saying Blanka ex roll
-- a move that is punishable on BOTH block AND HIT LOLOLOL
I can tell you the WEAKEST EX move for sure. Gen's EX Oga. Fireball invincible to the wall, no strike invincibility whatsoever and hits the wall too high to actually punish any fireballs you might be avoiding. Also does no extra damage and the dive kick has no change in speed from normal versions. Has to be charged for the full 2 seconds so it can't be thrown out there when you're under pressure or being crossed up after kd. (Think Yun's palm when it can chip you to death.) The utility for this move is virtually nonexistant. I don't think I've ever used it in an actual match since vanilla.
As far as improvements go for attacks, Dudleys EX Jet Upper is miles better than his regular one. I'd put Abel's EX Tornado Throw in there as well.That thing is scary.
Gen's EX hands because I'm crap and sometimes get them by accident burning my precious meter... and they are useless. EX oga is pretty crap too, it would be useful if the height was diferent with diferent buttons (I haven't even tried that). I heard it'll be faster in 2012, may be usefull.
#9 he just picks up/grabs the ground harder so he gets 2 rocks instead of one, but that was still funny lol
@20
Because this thread is NOT filled with a bunch of scrubs who make it their lives to cry about "Yun is broken."
This thread is filled with people who are actually interested in learning the game and giving a well-rounded analysis of the game, not just Yun-hating crybabies.
ROFL! "Throw a rock so hard it hits me twice"...
"Picks up the ground harder so he gets 2 rocks"...
This is a lovely convo we're having ^^
probably ex seismic hammer. Hit confirm to ultra, beats hits and grabs, safe on block, dodges crossups, and etc.
viper ex.seismic hammer and seth ex.dp are definitely broken on both use on defense and offense!
rufus ex.messiah kick and blanka ex.roll can be still defeated, avoided, and punishable!
honda ex.headbutt is only best use as a defensive/counter tool so i dont really see this move considering broken at all!
guy and elfuerte ex.dash are semi-broken for 3hit invulnerability plus recovery priorities!
feilong and yang ex.rekkas are definitely cheap and broken for frame priorities!
yun ex.lunge,palm,shoulder are all safe from recovery, hit/block stun, frame priorities, hurt box, even more broken if use correctly (spacing,timing,execution,etc.)!
#9: Thanks. That was the best laugh I had this whole week :'D.
1. EX Seismo
2. EX Lunge Punch from Yun
3. EX Grab with Yun and Yang
There is no argument that these are the top.
It has to be ex seismic hammer. For the standard throw and hit invincibility, as well as it's damage and stun. But the reason why I think it's one of the best moves in the game because of vipers ability to sjc it. Meterless Fadc ability, and seismic hammer chains makes it more safe on block and keep the mix up going. A mix up certain characters HAVE to deal with. Seth ex dp may be great but without three meters it isn't safe and the mix up afterwards is moderately avoidable. Mix up ability and everything else it has going on makes ex seismic hammer top three.
Seth's EX-SPD...kinda surprised that no one mentioned this specifically...One person said ALL of Seth's EX moves, but I disagree seeing as his other EX moves are a bit easier to punish...I can't tell you how many times I wish there were something I could do against this move, even Gief's SPD isn't this annoying!
Viper's EX-Seismic Hammer is iffy, on one end of the argument, it's easy to block low...on the other end of the argument, the move has some buffed up features, though I don't think it's really "broken" per se...
Fei's EX-Rekka is annoying, not extremely broken though, same with Yun's lunge punch, it's annoying in some situations, but not broken in my opinion.
This is an interesting discussion, I'll have to think a bit more on this one, there's a lot of moves I'm not even thinking of right now that I'm sure are cheap as all hell..
#28
I'm not a Yun hating crybaby, but having it be +frames on block is a bit much. He already has so much going for him.
But I'd say it's a tossup between EX Lunge and EX Seismo. Seth's EX DP is good, but it's not safe like the two above, and can't just be thrown out there. Plus, Viper can CANCEL the EX Seismo for a free invincible wakeup.
Juri's pinwheel?
Safe from a distance, beats/trades with everything and fast.
Guy's ex run only absorbs 3 hits if you stop, its 2 without it,ex ball isn't bad, but EX rainbow ball is, the fact you can boomerang back mid air is stupid. but EX seismo, also yun's lunge punch being + on block
Unlike Blanka and Balrog's EX charges, Honda's EX headbutt doesn't go through fireballs. All it has is a few frames of full body invulnerability, but character like Ken and Ryu have that on their NORMAL non-EX reversals. It's about average as far as EX moves go.
@40
Sakura's EX tatsu is +4 on block and starts out 5 frames and can lead to bigger damage. Only issue is distance and recovery on whiff.
Puts thing in perspective, don't it?
Yun's EX lunge is good because it compliments the rest of his moveset, but there are worse EX moves to deal with for sure.
His EX-Grab, NOW that is damn good. I still would not say better than EX-Seismo, cause you can even CANCEL that damn thing and not whiff.
yuns lunge punches are his weakest moves. How is the ex one broken?
it looses against a lot of normals and doesnt go though fireballs. from everywhere on the screen he has more viable moves exept from fullscreen, and if someone does it from full screen you can easily conter it.
The only thing it got going for it is the frame advantage on block and that you can do his ultra on hit. Otherwise its his worst move.
@doublef: "um... honda EX headbutt anyone?"
You have got to be kidding. It doesn't even go through projectiles like Blanka's EX roll does, or even absorb one hit of a projectile like Psycho Crusher does. Its defensive use is okay, but that's for a character with no real reversal otherwise! Even if Honda's normal headbutt had the properties of his EX one, I'd argue it would still need help.
(Honda's Jab headbutt getting high invincibility back will help him in 2012, at least.)
ex messiah only used to be cheap because it did so much damage. now its LESS cheap but it still builds meter.
oh and @ #31 jhayze
why did you end every sentence in an exclamation point! i read every thing you said in a VERY repetitive tone! el fuerte's ex run doesnt have 3 hits of armor it has 2! you sound like Jerry Seinfeld!
as a viper player i have to say something,
i mean, ex seismo is imo the most important move for viper..
all her normals sux, wakeup without meter almost no chance, only block.
ex bk and ex tk are almost useless (i use them maybe every 4th match)
and for those who cry about, ex seismo leads to massive damage, free ultra blalbalba,almost every character can do ultra after a ex move without fadc: gen, seth, boxer, ryu, oni, cammy, chun, yun, rufus etc..
@58
the point of the discussion is which ex move gives more of a reward for that on meter. theres good ex moves and bad ones. in the end they all cost one meter
@viisii
1. Gen - ex hands into ultra is character specific and does lol damage. His oga can also launch into ultra but no one ever lands it.
2. Seth - It does pretty low damage.. very low actually. The SRK into ultra seems to miss the greater bulk of the hits.
3. Ryu - Has to be in the corner. Very specific.
4. Boxer - That ultra damage is laughable at this point.
5. Oni - Yeah his is pretty hard hitting but it doesn't have invincibility of any kind and is very very slow and predictable. If he's glowing yellow and runnin at you just press lp.
6. Cammy - ... very rarely will anyone ever land it in a match.
7. Chun - This one is really versatile but it has no invincibility and does laughable damage again.
8. Yun - This guy is the exception to the list. Does great damage, travels full screen, +1 on block. This is something that is getting fixed though.
9. Rufus - Rufus can land his ultra a thousand different ways really so no reason to really talk about ex galactic tornado. Plus ex galactic tornado has no invincibility anyway. It's not like you can just use it on wake-up.
Viper is the only character that I can think of that has an ex invincible move that leads to really big damage and is safe and can lead into a free mixup or get-a-way. Yun has his lame ex dash punch, but that really doesn't have invincibility.
Dan's EX fireball come on guys it almost goes half screen
#66 I dont know how it is with other characters, but my makoto easily conters it with standing strong. and juris crouching strong trades with it, its in fei longs favour, but i got the advantage afterwards. You can also dash under it or use any slide to avoid it. Its not really that strong of a move.
seismic hammer leaves only one option that gives you an advantage, and that is the safe jump. And Ex rekka has a build in frame trap wich leaves you guessing if you can punish it at all. Or Seths dp together with the command grab wich give you a 50/50 guess to punish or get hit, or you can run away and not even that is safe. Those are cheap moves.
1.(Viper) Ex Seismo -broken
2.(Cody)Ex Bingo/Zonk and (Seth)Ex DP -beats everything
3.(Makoto)Ex Command grab -near broken
4.(Yun) Ex Lunge Punch
5.(Makoto)Ex Dash Punch and Ex Chop -Annoying
6.(Fei Long) Ex Chicken Wing
#24: Ex.hands are far from useless! After ex.hands you can sweep, and getting knockdowns for Gen is very important. You can also link his touch of death ultra, but it's 1f and I don't believe that's actually worth it.
Ex.Oga is pretty much useless and stupid. This is why they're buffing it to 150dmg in 2012... it's still gonna be useless. Gen needs super and ex.gekiro way more.
I hate ex.headstomp. The chip especially is redunkulous.
I'm a honda player so the worse ex for me is seth dp. Viper's seismo won't hit his head butt so it does not bother me too much. Also why is Viper getting so much attention now she has barely changed in all three versions of SF4 and the community has only realized now that she was broken.
@71
So all of Makotos ex moves exept the axe kick are broken? Seriously?
command grab? It absorbs one hit, has terrible reach for an ex grab can be thrown out of, gets beaten by guard crush moves and every uppercut in the game. How is that broken?
ex overhead has a short window of hit invincibility, can be thrown out of and gets beaten by every uppercut in the game and doesnt have frame advantage
ex dash punch has no invincibility, doesnt absorb anything, gets beaten or trades with every move, and it doesnt even go full screen.
I guess you have bad experiences against makotos wich is why those moves annoy you, but they aren't good moves. They are easily dealt with.
#71 And her dash punch also has no frame advantage, and ex karakusa is the only move that you can combo after everywhere on the screen. Dash punch only in the corner and overhead knocks down. Those are some of the weakest ex properties in the whole game.
EX Sismo is not broken, it is really good but not broken for the simple fact that you can beat it with delayed normals or OS'ing something.
I will say the worst is twins ex command grab simply because for what it dose to their game. They become unstoppable with it.
1. Twins EX Command Grab
2. EX Sismo
3. Seths EX DP
yuns ex lunge punches are weak and easy to punish it on reaction or by luck. lol i don't mind people keep using it against me
EX sismo and EX Cammy Dive Kick for sure, sismo for obvious reasons and dive kick because of its number of uses and ability to be at advantage on block or hit, and can lead in to big combo's/Ultra
Yun's EX lunge because it's +1 on block. End of story.
Ok I had to check my facts before I said anything and I have to agree I think it is yuns dash punch also why well since I play gouken and his ex parry is broken when yun does this move seth gets off with going through it that SUCKS why the F is that Capcom it hits him but he gos through it come on! vipers guess what SHE GETS HIT .... now before I get alot of hate crap about this yes other ex moves breaks his parry but they are not the best in game ether PS hey Capcom how about making Gouken ex running palm beat every special move in the game it does two hit also and i want is safe on block LOL like that will ever happen but they did it
Feilong - Ex Chicken wing
Yun - Ex Dash punch, Ex shoulder, Ex grab (throw invincible)
Bison - Ex psycho crusher
Viper - Ex seismic hammer
Honda - Ex headbutt
Sagat - Ex tiger knee
El fuerte - Ex run (because he can run back also, unlike Guy)
Makoto - Ex dash punch
Abel - Ex tornado throw
Adon - Ex Jaguar kick (must block high)
Disgusted by all the opinions in here. Holy hell. So, we cried and got Yun nerfed, yay us. Now that we know we can make Ono bend, lets cry and get Viper nerfed too, and every other character until we can either win with relative ease or go play MW3.
They're EX moves. Deal with them. What's worse is how every move being mentioned can be safe jumped and option selected against easily. Very easily. What's not being talked about is Ryu's EX DP with as much invincibility and iframes to beat out EVERY ex move on wakeup that's being cried about in here.
EX Seismo. Minus on block, leaves Viper wide open off of jump in. Easily the easiest ex move in the game to option select against with anything you want. Continue your block string and you'll hit her out of it on wakeup.
Seth EX DP. Really? This move bothers you? Stop mashing throw or buttons. You can safe jump it too. It's literally as easy as Sagat's DP to safe jump. REGULAR flame kick is harder to safe jump than Seth's ex DP. You need three bars to OS a focus attack to make it safe, too.
Makotos ex arsenal? Really...? Have you experienced a whiffed EX karakusa? You can take a coffee break, come back, and still punish it. You can CANCEL a normal into a regular i frame move and beat it out.
EX Lunge punch? 17 frames of startup (excludes the travel time in frames, nonetheless), no invincibility, links into ultra, but is only even close to easy when executed point blank, which is useless as all hell outside of TC into it, which scales the already trash damage. How can you call any combo into Yun's U1 good damage, when his U1 does trash damage and never combos into HP lunge when you do a combo into the U1 itself? Oh, it's +1 on block. So, how many characters can punish honda's ex headbutt, or Chun's EX Legs, or Ryus +1 EX Fireball and Ryu's EX Tatsu, and half of the ex moves in the game? Newsflash, you still won't punish it outside of very specific command grabs. Now you just get to go back to mashing jab and Yun is naturally frame trapped himself against 3 frame jabs.
How many of you don't use a shoto?
#83 Are you saying that to us guys in the comments or to the pro gamers in the Video? And its not about blocking, its that there is no safe approach if Viper has 1 meter, she can counter a messed up amount of different move with this one ex move, and she can use it safely because its hard to punish, the move can be faked and super jump cancelled on hit and block, so she can combo after it, or pressure you further if you block.
Dont call people scrubs if you actually dont even understand what they qare talking about.
ITT people trying to prove their character is the worst character in the game.
#84
Seth DP is cheap because it outpriorityses pretty much everything, and you have these 50/50s with his command grab. So what are you going to do? do a move and he dps you, Jump and he DPs you, block and he grabs you, dash out and wait for the next 50/50, and if you do it too often he just sucks you back in, gives you a thosend kicks or does whatever.
@Ex seismo: I dont even know if you are talking about the right move here. She can easily cancel it into dash and super jump in any direction, how are you going to optoion select that with everything, its invincibile against pretty much everything wich makes it pretty much the best counter move in the game. And it only costs one meter, and its safe, and easily comboed after, not like a ex DP where you need 3 meters to make it safe or combo after.
And btw. This discussion is not about wakeup options. its about the general properties and options to use it in, Seems like you are only talking about wakeup.
EX Seismic Hammer for sure but not in v2012 though.