After the completed patch notes were posted yesterday, the Street Fighter dev blog posted a couple of changes that were specifically altered because of the last location test. These were also included in the overall changes, but it's nice to see which ones were specifically altered from the Alpha changes.
It seems like they've struck a pretty good balance now.
Blanka not allowed cross-up after b-throw; no Dictator shenanigans. OK.
Rose given more damage output on her ground reversal. OK.
Don't care about Hakan/Yang/Oni.
As a Rufus main, I'm content but I wish they fixed EX Messiah flying over crouched characters. Gives several characters a free meaty low on block each time with no risk.
I think Seth should have gotten his old head stomps back as well as his old aerial hp. I was honestly almost expecting this change. Almost every character has at least one very good thing about them, and Seth's 2 strongest qualities for defense and an ambiguous air approach were removed. Now he is just.. idk. It's not nearly as fun for me to play him anymore. I wasn't a jump hp spammer, but the move had great uses for keepaway. He is the only character as far as I know, to have a move totally deleted. I relied heavily on a lot of head stomp mixups in Super since the hit box was so crazy, but that's not doable anymore and so much of what I loved about him was how aerial he was (the way I played anyhow). I still love him but don't use him nearly as much as I did. It just doesn't sit well with me how he can get pooped on so much and other characters who are already good get nothing but buffs.
I had a dream that one day Capcom will decide to make all characters in SF4 viable, and as strong as their potential. No favoritism, and not allowing attributes that some characters have over the others such as multiple juggles while some only have one which isn't very useful. Then, people will stop trying to nerf seriously great characters (Fei Long), and worry about developing skills.
Other than a few few things, STOP nerfing the best characters, just buff the bad ones. Nobody play Hakan for a reason.
Seth lost the stretchy arm j.hp coz people didnt realize how good his spd/dp mixup was. It's crazy to allow his lame game when you have a character with that much offensive potential.
I rather like that they kept his offense game and got rid of some of his keep-away, rather than turning him into another Sim, but I do understand how you feel since it was the way you played him as a character that was essentially most affected by the changes. Arturo Sanchez would give you a ditto.
@ #6
You don't realize that it is impractical for a character to have "that much" offensive potential when his health is god awful and you're dead in a few hits. The spd is a guessing game and the dp is not at all safe on block, especially now that it has less block stun. There's no excuse to remove his j.hp or head stomps. If you played Seth like I did(I got him to B+ in Super, just B in AE)you'd understand how frustrating he can be to play against certain characters/play styles. I'm not saying I'm the greatest Seth or anything, because I know I'm not. But I will say that I have a ton of experience with him.
Just like DR_Jam said, every character should be buffed to their greatest potential. It's what makes the most sense and what I've been saying all along. Guile should be how he was in Super, T. Hawk should have a second command grab since he is a grappler and it doesn't make sense to only have one command grab when all the other ones have 2. It should be a grab where he grabs them by the head, slides them across the ground and then throws them into the wall for a wall bounce, allowing a combo into ex condor spire, to ex tomahawk, to ex condor dive. Yeaaaahhh. Other moves could be done as a follow up as well I'm sure but just throwing it out there. Seth should work how he did in Vanilla SF4 with the nasty dive kick and arms. Gief is best in AE but crouching lk should be a 2 frame link how it was in Vanilla instead of a 1 frame. I could go on for awhile but.. I've typed too much
"Also, if Oni performs an EX Hurricane Kick from his Air Hadou Dash, the landing recovery has been reduced by 3 frames for a total of 22. "
I don't really understand this one. If I dash forward in the air, cancel it to EX hurricane (which situation will never ever happen), too unsafe) and it hits, I get back to the ground faster? And if I do, what's the reason of this? Possible to juggle after air dash -> EX hurricane? Like, we can combo into ultras, DP and the palm (forward-down-forward kick) ?
Pahahahahaha seth's old jp hp. Silly move. At our level thats all Seths do about 30 times a game then wonder why they lose.
@7 As a T. Hawk player, I like your idea about a 2nd command grab. However, in this game he has a lot of specials that help make him very agile and give him options that set him apart, too. Love his Condor Spire and EX Condor Dive!
Yeah Balrog should have his Super headbutt recovery for sure. I definitely agree.
@ all people that want the recovery on headbutt back
He really need that? damn he is one of the strongest characters, they bring back the damage on them, if you want recovery back then nerf his stupid jabs or the free combo to ultra from a jab, geez people only want an easy character like rog easier...
(I dunno, Ehubs, making Hakan suck less would be a good...thing...
Y'know what, nevermind
*grumble grumble*)
@residentevilrulz
Thanksgiving I had the opportunity to play REGULAR SSFT4 over my sis house. I got like 2-3 Seth's doing just that. And they taunted after and during the fiasco. Once i got in though and started burning and out-teleporting the taunts stopped,
You are one of the few my friend who may actually play Seth with some class. But i believe thats why they removed j hp, due to it being a such scrub-magnet
Is this ALL of the changes? I know ElF's chest bump was buffed in the recent changes so I'm not sure if there's any more.
@marvelvsmyass
Yep, something like that. They can't win with headbutt spam since AE, so they do what kids do: cry out loudly to get back his lovely *thing*, instead of adepting to the options reality gives them.
Rog's headbutt is still a good move, it's damn cheap ultra setup and also comboable, but I know, that requires training, and crying is easier.
So headbutt got a huge damage buff, and it's still not enough for them (keep in mind, ultra and super both comboable, still). High damage "counter everything" special, and the only restriction is... well, they need to use their... head (I know, bad joke) and think when can they use it, if they can't combo in it (that's pretty easy too anyway), because it's unsafe on block. Of course it is, it should be!
Crying out for vanilla Mr.Headbuttspam 'Rog is just pointless and shows how unrespectful and stupid the player is. I'm sorry, but I think I can say this as a fact.
Dear crying people! Your mind wins the game, not your character! People with good mindgame play well, and people with no mindgame should suck their shoes. SF is like Chess. It's made for people who can think about of the box, and only because 10.000.000 more people can't play Chess well, they won't change the rules and add a puppet with teleport and hit everything ability.
But, imagine what better players could do with a puppet (aka character in SF) like that. And that's where balance dies, because you, dear crying people, are a huge mass, a louder mass, and that's why most (for example)good old MMO games became simple and designed for 10 year old kids.
Adept, learn how to use your options, possibilites, and how to control your opponent's options. Just like in Chess.
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Sorry for my bad english :).
Balrog got his damage back on his BnB special that combos into ultra and people are crying for recovery for when the move is blocked. Crouching jab, jab, lk x headbutt is like the easiest charge character string in the game. Fastest jab in the game, easy combo in headbutt, ultra on top of that.
There are no more changes coming to SF4 people. Its done. Pick the character you like and maximize your skill with them. Any more complaints and wishlists at this point is just whining. The devs are no longer listening.
Instead of a Damage upgrade for the ex spiral I would have rather she had more invincibility on the ex spiral or a lot of push back on block. Either that or a lot of invincibility on her soul throws and have them have a lot of active frames.
Even more combos that aren't 1 frame links or being able to combo U1 from fadc HP reflect or something. If they don't see it fit to give Rose more options. then raise her damage output across the board by like 35% since she doesn't hit more than 4 times at a time, if that. Usually it's crouching mp into spiral. She can't effectively jump in since her jump takes a while, so she has a weak fireball zoning game with an inadequate almost nonexistent reversal so a higher damage output overall will be the best way to balance her out if the devs want to keep her unjustifiably without options.
All this balrog hate coming from people are really ignorant, people who say balrog is easy mode dont really know the game well, balrog is maybe the worst character with he's mixups, after a knock down, he has very limited options of opening others up, what can you do? jump in hk, go for a block string? Thats why you will see all balrogs players utilise tick throws almost everytime, and frame traps (not even good), because thats the only thing going for him, dash punsh overhead is so slow it can be blocked on reaction easy unless you use a as a meaty but can be countered by reversal dps. What makes you scrubs say balrog is easy mode? unless you can link 3 ex dash upper in a combo consistantly, you dont deserve to call him easy mode.
I am tying really hard to get my B+ with SIM, but im scared they aregoing to reset the BP. Does anyone know if the BP are being reset with the update.
@#24 SuperStraightFighter
Ever tried to play Cammy, Makoto, Viper, Abel, El Fuerte or any character that needs heavy links or canceling skills to be competitive?
Btw, I'm able to do those "easy" Ex Dash Jab link thingy. Man that's one of the easiest things with Rog, almost a BnB... Dunno. Like the only hard thing I found on Rog was uhm cr.LP -> cr.MP xx Es Dash Upper -> cr.LP -> cr.MP etc... and that was learned in about an hour or two.
El Fuerte's and Viper's spend MONTHS and YEARS in training mode to get their good combos going... like seriously.
So yeah, Balrog _IS_ easymode.
Oh and I forgot my main, Sakura. She's pretty link heavy too compared to Rog. She's hard to use, I mean she don't even got an headbut to get out of trouble.
Balrog is easy. It doesn't make you a bad player but, yeah, step outside of him and see how well you'll do. I think you'll be surprised how much depth the rest of the cast has to learn.
I play Hakan a lot and, while he doesn't have a lot of links, you have to learn every mindgame, meaty, setup and character specific frame trap to be successful. Balrog of course has match specifics but ... come on. You get some free, cheap damage with that guy. Walk up grab is the scrubbiest, fraudulent, easy tactic in SFIV and it's character specific to Balrog and Dic.
@mcfizzle
Actually, SFIV is now far from done. I forget the interview, but Killian was recently asked about the future of SFIV and if it's now officially done.
His response was along the lines of "I know somethings, but I can't tell you."
how is balrog easy mode? you need to have good footsies to play with him, find a way to get into that 'danger' zone his damage output isn't that high either and his reversal options are limited and most of his normals can be focused into a punish. There really is no such thing as an 'easy mode' character in the game (Maybe apart from yun lol ;P) but the rest is fine just the way they are, though i agree that some characters require more time like viper but it just depends on what your style of game play
ppl bitching about good chars like seth and boxer? only scrubs want seths old j.fp and boxers headbutt recovery back.a char with seths. speed & offensive potential never needed a atk like j.fp and boxer is already notorious for having one of the scrubbiest safe on block moves in the game (dash straight) with maybe only a handful having a 1 frame window to punish those not thrown properly.he already has 3 armor breakers,great AA,the best cr.jab in the game and easy hit confirms into ultra.he gets a lil recovery on headbutt and now he's ass tier? plz.boxer is beyond easy mode try playing a char like t hawk or fuerte.then u'll see who really has it bad.
I'm very excited for Hakan's changes. I mean my BP and PP are really gonna go places now. Being as they are already going up with him. Wish there were more Zangief changes :D
Hakan is the best, just sayin'. He needs more buffs! :}
Seth is just fine he is right now even the changes from v2012, if ever they gonna buff him up i totally suggest and prefer give him more life and stun!
Balrog (Boxer) changes for v2012 is alright too, bringing back his HB damage from vanilla or super, but if u bring back his HB recovery its gonna be debatable, for now i see him well balanced and not on auto-easy-pilot-mode, and lastly... Balrog = Vanilla/Super > AE nuff' said!
The balance of vanilla was obscure but it couldn't be avoided as the game was "raw" and the system mechanics were new..
The balance of chocolate was near perfect, save for 3-4 characters that had clear advantages over others...
The balance of AE would of panned out if not for the decision to include "Super" tier characters as a means to making the game more fun... I get challenging players but there are TOO many casual players who will abuse the strength or whine and whine about the strength... just not for the market you created capcom...
But this... this 2012 ver. looks solid. I think they nerfed Yang too hard, but I have no complaints for Yun... Um, erase Dan and add R. Mika! (Won't happen, but still.)
A buff for a character is also a nerf to every other character. So when you ask for a buff, think about how all the other character's community will feel about a nerf.
They should just add the option to play as the Arcade or the Super version when you pick your character. Damn i really miss super cammy, they destroyed the character in AE so the twins could draw all the attention and even with the 20121 nerfs theyre still a better option than her.
@25
I do use those characters you mentioned, I however only find viper and elf are slightly more difficult to use than the rest, the characters you mentioned are all higher tier than balrog except elf, and they do have lots of mixup options and advantages after a knock down, which balrog lacks ( he mainly footie heavy character ), regarding the 3 ex dash upper as bnb? I highly doubt it, you rarely see it even in very top balrog matches, if you say cr. jab, jab , jab, lk headbutt, or ex dash upper, cr, jb, lk headbutt as bnb, thats more believable. I dont main anyone in the game, I use all characters, I would like to play your balrog online and see how you play him? A challenge?
@28
Its funny how you mentioned balrog is easy, saying other characters are more mind game based, then critisized his walk grab, it is his mind game, players use the advantage of certain characters walk speed, whats wrong with that? its like saying makoto does dash karakusa is cheap because her dash is so fast? thats just insane, kara throws is not cheap? ( the thing can be mashed)..
if thats the case CHANGE YUNBACK THE WAY HE WAS!!!!!!!! or at least buff the ultra 1 il be happy