Air posted on his blog today that eLive|Kazunoko, the #1 ranked Yun in Japan has made a complete matchup number rundown. You can read some of the more interesting point balances below and you can catch the complete list on Air's writeup.
I would like to see his reasoning behind some of these, especially for Yun's match-ups against Fei Long, Zangief, Sagat, and C. Viper.
I'm not outright saying he's wrong but I feel that his own skill (considering how good he is) is playing a part in his perception of these match-ups as opposed to just character vs character.
CC hopefully fixes this in 2012 ed
No I'm not the one complaining about them being overpowered per se. but imo it is detrimental to the competitive scene to have top 8s with the same 2-3 chars.
Doesn't character diversity count for something? even more entertainment value would draw more viewers. The Mago Fuudo mirror match was exhausting as hell to watch.
8-2? That's almost unwinnable, not sure if I agree.
The saddest part is that he was developed to be overpowered on purpose to "make matches more exciting" or some nonsense.
The development team really made a big mistake there.
There is no way that Yun or Yang is 6-4 on Zangief. I can consistently compete with top 100 Yuns and Yangs, and I am horrible. The punch lariat beats almost every move that they have. I don't see any way around that, regardless of how good the Yun or Yang player is.
@12
I beat most of the Yuns I fight online with Hakan. I can beat their dive kicks with LK Oil dive and I can go under their palms with EX Oil Slide.
That doesn't mean the matchup isn't against me. It just means that most players are idiots and don't know how to adapt to my limited bag of tricks.
Looks like a crock of you know what. He does not beat Balrog/Zangief, lol. And with him being weaker in 2012 and Balrog getting some good stuff...yeah.
Yun is just damn cheap, but I think every character has a few bad match-ups. If for nothing else, some designs have certain advantages over other character's design and purpose.
I find all these "I don't agree" comments hilarious. As if any of us here are even anywhere near good enough to prove these wrong, lol. He'd make these look like 10-0 matchups against anyone on this site.
Just think about it guys. He's one of the top Yun players in Japan where pretty much MOST of the best players are. Of course there are fantastic players elsewhere, but Japan has a LOT more than most other places because they have the strongest AE scene. Just because you may have had a good match against a Yun with your character online it doesn't mean too much, unfortunately.
For example, how he's saying 8-2 against Akuma? Daigo MURDERED the murder face at EVO with his Yun. Infiltration did pretty well against Daigo's Yun at NCR grand finals, but he still lost. Those are two of the best Akumas right there and they haven't had a great deal of success against another one of the best Yun players in tournaments all year.
There's always going to be exceptions of course, like Poongko's Seth for example (or perhaps Momochi's Cody). But you've just gotta look at the bigger picture and the GOOD players to really understand why they would feel this way based off of THEIR experience and the experience of perhaps other players.
We just don't grind out AE like he does, plain and simple.
#11, for him, it is 7-3, 7-3 8-2 ,8-2... He beated tokido's akuma 9-1 one time.
When the #1 Yun in Japan (which might as well read #1 Yun in the world), lays out Yun's matchups and lists no bad matchups, I buy it. Even if he drops every matchup by one, he still doesn't have bad matchups.
Is he thinking objectively? Who knows...I'd hope so with a public claim...just means to me that something is clearly wrong. Hell, this shows something is clearly wrong no matter how lightly you take his opinion.
Lets go v2012!
what this guy did is like if Kuroda made a list like this:
Q has no bad Match-Ups
*Chun 6-4
*Yun 7-3
*Ken 7-3
*Makoto 8-2
see where im getting at? being the best at a certain game, doesnt mean you can base the entire rosters win/lose ratio by yourself. in fact, its downright stupid if the best player did that...i would need the opinion of the Top players of the world to make a legit Tier-List. anyone who believes this list, should believe that Kazunoko is good, not Yun. im pretty sure Daigos list would be COMPLETELY different and his Yun isnt that far behind Kazunokos (if not better).
Like Yun said "Don't be whining to me once i beat you... BEAT YOU."Yun is the man.
As a Bison player I feel the match up for Bison is 5-5. Depends who gets their momentum going.
The thing these eventscrubs don't understand are that these are based on top level play and supposedly against players of equal skill. Your online games mean sh1t, anything that 99.99% of eventhubs players say means sh1t when you are not playing at the highest of levels with an equally skilled character. I would take Kazunoko's word over an eventscrub any day.
@17
Tokido said himself that Yun was Akuma's worst matchup for obvious reason, Yun deals massive damage, good stun, good reversal against vortex, can get through both air and ground fireballs easily, can't tatsu into sweep, both hits of rh dont hit, easily combo into super and ultra, good option select against teleport etc etc etc.
(ok, my first comment wasn't that witty, but I've got one NOW:
This article is wrong, Yun's one bad matchup is AE2012 being free :P)
You really cant compare some American online warrior with the arcade scene in japan.
Yuns that do his dive punch thing from full screen already dont know how to play. Hes cheap enough that most people dont actually need to learn him. But seing how his normals link together and how he gets big combos out of every hit, the damage output together with his options. He has no big weakspot. The Seth one seems low thou. I think Seth is S tier as well, but what do i know.
scrubby america -sigh- Japan is the best representation of AE period...most america has never played a "REAL" Yun player, not some scubby online Yun player u may beat for free lol or even ur friend who mains Yun who is no where close to the lvl or knowledge of Kazunoko
Daigo and Kazonoko to me are the best focal point in seeing Yun's true potential, not america nor any of u... get that straight but Kazunoko has really opened up Yun's potential as of late
Kazu is right bc he knows ALL, I mean ALL the Mups, and "knows" ALL his options againist these Mup's
Most of u are ignorant, for instance YES Yun vs Akuma is 8-2, only scrub Yun's lose to Akuma, but fighting an intelligent Yun is VERY hard to beat or compete with lol
lol someone said Bison/Yun 5-5 u are really wrong
Chun is free to Yun yes 7-3
He is pretty much right IMO
Gief has never been a bad Mup for Yun lol
once Yun tech. grew so did ALL these Mup's, they all got worse for every character
Version 2012 can't come any faster! Im willing to take kazunoko's word for it. Hes pretty godlike with yun. Hated seeing him RAPE bullcat >_>
rofl @ including Gen in that list "top tier, top tier, top tier, oh yeah and Yun dosent have to sweat Gen" lol. my question is, is this AE or 2012?
http://aliounesensei.wordpress.com/20...
this reminds me of alioune's cammy match-up list in chocolate.
What's all the fuss about? This is clearly a matchuo list from HIS perspective. It's not the real matchup list. You're all forgetting to take into consideration his skills.
Just imagine if momochi or uryo made a matchup list. Wouldn't all the matchups be in their character's favor. Just stop the pointless arguments. Its still interesting to know what he thinks about certain natchups.
@ 41: Couldn't have said it better myself. I mean don't get me wrong - Japan has always had strong representation of Street Fighter players, but that doesn't mean a Japanese player can't be beat by a US player, or any other foreign player for that matter. Any one of you can beat a Daigo, Kazunoko, Tokido, Mago, Fuudo, whoever! The Japanese are still *gasp* HUMAN!
@41 I don't recall anyone saying they can't be beat and that they are unbeatable gods in street fighter 4.
@18 First of all, I was more suprised than at a disagrement. I haven't played AE in a long time so I am very behind on match ups. I don't think you need to get your panties in a bunch. I think everyone here has great respect for this guy as a player but also I think everyone is just reiterating their feelings about AE because these match ups are pretty ridiculous.
@41 Yeah I wanted to say something like that but im too nice.
@45 A lot of "dickriders" as he puts it tend to put these guys at such high esteeem that they think they are unbeatable because someone disagrees with them. Be damned if no one has a personal opinion around here anymore.
You guys are crazy saying "It's not Yun; it's Kazunoko"
Umm... Kazunoko IS Yun.
And he's not basing this chart off of playing scrubs.
When he says Yun is 8-2 over Akuma, he's basing that off of playing Tokido, Eita, -6.... not SSJ_ShinAkuma666 on XBL.
Yeah, it's his experience.. but it's his experience against other players that have mastered their characters to a similar degree.
For anyone to think that their 3000PP, B-Rank PSN experience is just as valuable as experience at Taito Station, is the height of arrogance, and the reason most players don't get better.
lol. Where is the source of this? I think Air is just making stuff up to get people to actually look at his blog. I'm sure it's pretty dead considering Air has done absolutely nothing in AE.
He has sagat as 6-4 Yun, but he played Bonchan in a race to 10 and won 10-9. Not to mention it was very close and Bonchan could have easily won it.
This list is coming from AIR. Does anyone remember his old tier list - he deleted from his blog, ROFL.
Here it is: This is Super, the right side represents Ryu.
Abel - 5.5 / 4.5
Adon - 6 / 4
Akuma (Gouki) - 5 / 5
Balrog (Boxer) - 6 / 4
Blanka - 5.5 / 4.5
Cammy - 6 / 4
Chun Li - 5.5 / 4.5
Cody - 5 / 5
C.Viper - 5 / 5
Dan - 4.5 / 5.5
Deejay - 5 / 5
Dhalsim - 7 / 3
Dudley - 5 / 5
El Fuerte - 6 / 4
E.Honda - 5 / 5
Fei Long - 6.5 / 3.5 (Mago told me that he thinks it's a 7:3 matchup in Fei Long's favour)
Gen - 5 / 5
Gouken - 5 / 5
Guile - 6.5 / 3.5
Guy - 5 / 5
Hakan - 4.5 / 5.5
Ibuki - 5 / 5
Juri - 5.5 / 4.5
Ken - 5 / 5
Makoto - 4.5 / 5.5
M.Bison (Dictator) - 6 / 4
Rose - 6 / 4
Rufus - 5 / 5
Ryu - 5 / 5
Sagat - 5 / 5
Sakura - 5 / 5
Seth - 5.5 / 4.5
T.Hawk - 5 / 5
Vega (Claw) - 5 / 5
Zangief - 5 / 5
So, according to AIR, ryu had only 3 good matchups in Super and they were .5's - Hakan, Dan, Makoto.
Take anything Air says with caution. If he gets called out on it, he will just delete the blog. lol...
Grapplers skyrocket in tiers during online in most fighting games I play. I just don't get it lol.
Yun having no bad match ups? Well from my experience, Yun in 3S is more lethal than the Yun in AE lol. Obviously, Kaz is talking about HIS Yun in general. This is from his own experience. Sagat in vanilla SF4 has no BAD match ups and only Akuma, Dhalsim and sometimes Ryu and Balrog were the ones who would cause Sagat many problems. But they were even match ups, not bad ones for Sagat. As for AE Yun, he has got bad match ups and since Kaz said that Yun has no bad match ups, top players like Mago and Fuudo could also say that Fei Long has no bad match ups lol. Thats because Fei is the best in AE with the lowest amount of bad match ups.
I hear a certan someone with a gaint nerf pipe is coming for the twins next month and hes gonna give that boy Yun a good 40 whacks and his brother a good 41. ALL PRAISE THE NERF KING HIP HIP HURRY! Lol SF players rejoyce.
Well like I have said before... Only way to make a point, is to slay the beast itself. I think once enough people beat him enough times, his opinion will change. Until then, it is mainly just overall bickering. But I guess it is healthy to bicker sometimes.
@50 those were his "personal" matchups. Who are you to tell him what his personal matchups are? This is the same case with aliounes list, it says clearly "my camy's" and all these scrubs saying he is way off should check themselves. Playing online and tiato station are two different things.
I actually hugely respect his matchup list. If that's what he believes, then every loss he takes is effectively HIS fault, not his charater's because (in his mind at least) Yun wins every match.
It makes for an awesome mindset that forces himself to really up his game and not blame any loss whatsoever on the other guy having better options, or his character not being able to deal with certain things.
Good God you people are idiots (well about 95% of you anyway)
most people downplay their characters (much like Air did), I doubt he is making those numbers for **** and giggles.
Just because you beat some scrubby Yun online who did dash punch randomly and dive kicked you from the wrong heights over and over doesn't mean ****.
Bison-Yu 5-5? Really LMFAO
Go to an offline tourney or gathering and play somebody who has even some decent knowledge of the character and then come back.
Stay classy
Wow.........you guys really need to hop off of Kazunoko and stop the ridding already! Just because an excellent player and all doesnt make him invincible or anything especially when fighting other players in general hell even some who may be really really good but just dont go to majors ever.
Honestly im not hating on him but you guys are saying " ZOMG SHUT UP HE WILL OWN YOU AND MAKE YOU LOOK FREE LOL. EVENTSRUBS THIS THAT BLAH BLAH BLAH" when half of you never even fought each other stop selling yourselfs short because you never know until you actually play said people your talking about. these are HIS numbers after all and just because he is really good and all doesnt make these numbers final or anything! Man so many riders in here its not even funny!
Funny thing is people always hype one player no matter where they are from and then when they either get bodied or just dont win you guys make up so many excuses. Like how people said Sako was the sh)* and was gonna own easily in america after doing so well in Gods garden and yet he lost to justin wong and marn in a way that made him look harmless. Just play the damn game and stop with all the scrub this and that because the people you may be calling scrubs could probably wipe the floow with you in A.E easy!
The bigger picture is that he said Yun has no bad match-ups and he does. Yun just has things he should not have in the first place and they are getting toned down, which will make a significant difference. There's a reason many pro players are jumping ship come v 2012.
You don't need to be a pro player either, just study game and high level match-ups. Yun is too fast to keep out, that's why Akuma has a hard time dealing with him (and any other zoning character, maybe bar Sagat). Dhalsim is free.
Yun is basically rewarded by execution and since Japanese players have excellent execution, they can take him to the highest level. As long as you don't drop combos with the character and know how to get past zoning....you win. That's a lot of what he is about. It just means a pro player with him can body any character.
@68 I agree with you, except his combos aren't exactly Viper diffculty, they are easy as hell to confirm and that helps to why he is so good.
Chun Li is a bad match-up for Yun and Yang ;)