Florent wrote in about an interview Ryan Hart conducted with one of the top Japanese players, Mago. He offers his opinions on who the top players are in Japan, the United States and Europe, Fei Long's worst match ups and thoughts on attending EVO this year. Here's a snip.
Ryan: In your opinion, who are the top 5 players in USA, Japan and Europe?
Mago: I'm not really sure about USA as I've never been but I think Justin is strong. In Japan I think Daigo, Kazunoko and myself are definitely top 3. After that it's quite hard to say. There are many strong players, 4th and 5th are probably some random Yuns out there (Ryan laughs). In Europe I think it’s: Alioune, Luffy, Evans (if he doesn't miss Combos), Ryan and Skatan.
Ryan: In your opinion, who are Fei Long's worst matchups?
Mago: Yang, Akuma then either Yun or Balrog.
Kazunoko, a.k.a. Yazu, was one of the very few Guile GrandMasters in Vanilla. He is legit.
I like EVO, but Shadowloo Showdown is much more competetive this year. It's this year's biggest tournament skillwise right after Tougeki.
@SabishiiRyuu I thought Hachigashira-San was Yazu?
and I find it funny that Mago sets himself as a "for sure" top 3, lol... I would think Tokido is better than Mago.
@0ShinAkuma0: Really? Then I had messed up my database lol. I was sure it was Yazu... hmm...
@ #5
Kazunoko is Inoue and not Yazu, aka this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltkMAc...
From this interview what I take away most is that Mago is genuinely enthusiastic about going to EVO. Tokido has said before he enjoys the energy and "hype" associated with the EVO environment, so its nice to know other players from overseas can also find aspects they enjoy in the American fighting game scene.
American scene is all hype and good... until their 100th player wins against a japanese/european representative and they start shouting USA! USA! USA! or some stupid remarks/inults.
As for SAMURAI. I seriously hope you're trolling.
@SAMURAI
man that being dishonest,mago is surely on the best,his bp and ratio prove it
I always considered Mago the #1 SFIV player, but that spot was taken over by Daigo during Super. Now I'd say Daigo is the definitive #1 SFIV player in the world, followed by Mago.
Tokido is an excellent player, but I don't think he's better than Mago. But I'd say he's in the top 10 in the world.
lol from the sounds of it and wording, Mago top 5 list seems to be based actual points achieved on the AE BP list. Thus the statement of random yuns as guesses. Tokido's scoring is quite low compare the other random yuns out there. So with that statement he isnt wrong for saying that.
We all know Tokido is the best akuma and very good player but it seems hes not putting in the time like everyone else is so it looks like hes slacking.
Doesnt mago have the 3rd highest BP ranking, cant blame him for making the claim. Thats like 5 months of invested time. Wont know who the best until they start rolling out more tournaments.
Mago corners you as a normal competetive player in about 10 seconds, also he does not let you escape the corner.
It's ridiculous.
When I played him (Bo3 at the stream) after waiting for an hour or so, I got bodied in less than a minute and half.
So yea, Mago 2D God is definitly fitting.
I'd say:
1. Daigo (With Yun not with Ryu)
2. Tokido or Mago.
3. Justin Wong (maybe that other Japanese Yun or Gamerbee)
4. mhm one of them above.
5. Dunno.. any godlike players left? xD (Oh maybe Vangief... because of the Gief vs Yun MU).
TL;DR
Mago corners normal competitive players in about 10 - 15 Seconds and does not let you escape.
Mago has the sickest reactions I've ever seen. And his patiance is huge. No chance srsly.
SAMURAI, if you make those kind of comments, I hope you enjoy staying free for the rest of your life.
@RedPanty: I could probably name at least 10 Japanese players that would destroy the current jwong. Especially now that he's concentrating more on MK and MvC3. If he took SF4 seriously and had a stronger local scene to play with, he'd definitely be top 5 in the world. He has the talent.
@SAMURAI: I hope Shadowloo Showdown and EVO show you how wrong you are.
Tokido isn't top 5 in SSF4. He's just not.
Kazunoko = Inoue. Gdlk 3s player.. gdlk GG player. #2 in BP... He's more than legit. He owned Gameinn Sakura arcade. He is "Daigo's friend" on the gameinn XBL account.
And wtf at Mago saying this will be his first Evo. He's clearly been before...
HAV
Well he was at Evo before but never because of Street Fighter.
@16 Well as long as you're not saying he's a bad player....
@ 20 Annon,
Yeah. me too. I even thought that in that pic (Mago) was a random chick picked up by Ryan Hart who happens to play SF. lol!
On a more serious note. Tokido is definitely in the top 5 in Japan imo.
@ 24 tokido is the best akuma and mago said akuma is a bad matchup
I will be laughing my ass off if Europe and Japan took top 8 (SSFIV) in Evo this year.
Reality check.
I think Justin has to get past the first round of SBO in Japan to be considered anywhere near top 5 in the world.
Has a US team ever done that?
The Japanese win around the World. Even "Dan from Japan" made Evo top 8 two years ago. An "average player from Japan.
When we can go over there and beat them on their soil then we can consider ourselves "World Class".
They come here and deal with the pressure, tense atmosphere, jet lag, communication issues, etc. and still win.
I'm not riding d#ck I'm just saying there appears to be big difference between what US players can do at home vs. in Japan.
As for best players, I think they get asked that question all the time. As someone said, he just used the ranking system. And again it's very character based. What Tokido can do with Akuma is mind blowing (he takes so much damage - you can't make a mistake).
I'm about to read the interview.
I will say, as far as American players go, I think these guys can all hang with the best:
1) Justin Wong
2) Sanford Kelly
3) Marlin Pie
4) Andre
Imagine if J. Wong only played one character....he just likes characters that everybody else doesn't use. Even with that, he can still beat anybody.
I'll probably get chastised for saying this but I have to agree with SAMURAI :S but in the sense that I think Tokido will do better than Mago in the major tourns this year.
@#30 Here to hoping :D
p.s. nice interview
since evo said they will split up players by location then by point. Then random assign those people who have no point.(based on wakeup shoryuken ep 59)
I would lol if someone with alot of points get Daigo or mago in the first round. Since they don't have any points.
@32
I understand what you are saying, but after EVO, every Japanese player that came to a US tournament lost. The only tournament that a foreigner even won was SBR, and that was Gamerbee. Sorry to burst your bubble, but Daigo lost to a bunch of Americans and so did Tokido.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Mskdp...
Tokido himself says in this interview he thinks that the skill level of Japan and America is "same":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNr-Bz...
@36 The skill level is definitely not the same. Japan is slightly ahead of the United States, take it from someone with a non bias opinion. Take a equal amount of players from both countries and put them in a different country, lets say Canada (where I'm from) and Japan will usually come out on top in SSF4 but, not Marvel. Playing in your home country does give you a small advantage. For example J.S Master playing so well in the last Canada Cup and playing just o.k at Evo. People have to realize it's only a few of the top players coming over from other countries and a ton of Americans at Evo. The numbers are in the Americans favour.
@37 To elaborate more on that, also people don't realize Justin can place higher at Evo than SBO because he understands the play style of most Americans and the competition is not as high. At SBO the numbers are not with him as he has to go through a ton of high level Japanese players not really being familiar with their play styles so, it's harder for him to finish near the top. It's truly amazing how Daigo can come over as the only representative sometimes and win the whole tournament. With that said Daigo is still going to get bodied in Marvel but, I can see Justin winning in Japan at Marvel. Justin actually might have a harder time winning Marvel in the States.
@Kaizy
tokido is praising,what do you want him to say,that americans level is low,of course not.
he did that to the french,so now they think they are ahead of the us.......lol
LOL @ some people saying Tokido is better than Mago. Mago BODIES him whenever they fight each other.
thats not true tokido has been getting in mago's @$$ the past few times they played mago has already admitted he struggles aginst akuma. That being said i do think mago is overall a better player than tokido . The top 5 in my opinion goes as follows
1.daigo
2.mago
3.kazu
4.tokido
5.uryo (when using viper)
this list isnt biased at all my favorite player is sanford in america and tokido in japan
@38 Justin as well as most Americans dont place high at SBO due to the format among other things. Many people dont realize that at SBO there is no 2/3, no loser bracket, none of that. You get one game to try and win, if you lose your out. Thats a big reason why the Americans place high at SBO. If SBO had a 2/3 format you would see more Americans placing higher then they actually because contrary to popular belief not all Japanese players are gdlk. The Japanese are great players dont get me wrong, but alot of them suck just like here in America or Europe or Korea. The best way to put it is the Japanese top 5 are better then our top 5.
@Tru1yOdd: That's simply an excuse. A high-level player adapts fast. Why does guys like Momochi, Kindevu, Umehara, and Uryo place high in both GodsGarden tournament, which is bo3 or SBO which are bo1?
In my opinion, Japan is better since they have so many good players. In the states, there are about 20 high level SSF4 players, and they are spread around that huge country. EC, WC and so so on. In Japan, There are at least 500 players like that, and they are all close to the Tokaido Metropolis. When they constantly play against each other, they obviously get better faster. Since everyone is posting their top 5, I'll do so too:
Best overall:
1. Umehara(Yun)
2. Mago(Fei Long)
3. Kazunoko(Yun)
4. Kindevu(anyone)
5. Shiro(Makoto... RIP Abel)
6. Uryo(Viper/Sakura)
7. Haitani(Makoto)
8. Akuma(Tokido)
9. Fuudo(Fei Long)
10. Nemo(Yang)
Best Female Players(on the scenes):
1. Choco(Blanka)
2. Sayaka-chan(Blanka)
3. Misao(Sagat)
4. Kayane(Chun-Li)
5. Guilty(Makoto)
Best TRAP! Players:
1. Ricky Ortiz(Rufus)
2. Kayo Police(C.Viper)
3. Tatsu(Claw)
@#43
saying what he said was just an excuse? You seem to overlook that fact the players you named off are already familiar with each other and more likely than not play against each other all the times. So of course they would do better than Justin who never fought against them and a decent chance to adapt and try again. Americans in general dont really have the opportunity to face them players in a tournament scene.
Yea true high level players adapt fast, But to get the mindset of a totally different good player within 1 to 2 matches i would imagine is insanely difficult. Even when the fame the best "Daigo" doesnt even adapt that quickly. Seeing how he even complained about the japanese format and not having the chance to fully get used to his opponents before being eliminated. like Daigo over here during tournaments losing to american players cause hes unfamiliar and because of the style we use in USA he can always have another chance. Hes able to get in money matches and whatnot to learn quickly how we play over time.
We arent afforded such luxury against the japanese, nor is there a ton of gameplay videos of them playing like they can have access to ours like nothing.
but to which place is better than the other i cant really say. See alot of good competitors all over on both sides, and even the once in while player that comes outta nowhere and shows to be good. There is just not enough exposure for americans due to how big we are, while Japan is more dense so we can readily see who performs better cause they are all getting the exposure when they do show up.
If the japanese are much greater than americans, we should see some more variety in their winners, usually never see one of the best get dethrone by a player we never heard of or doesnt have much of a tourney record. unless they are over here in north america oddly enough.
#45 that is not right as japan dont really do 1 vs 1. its mostly team tournys. kayubetsu won sbo 09, no one heard of him. and MDR who no one knew, pretty much dethroned all the top names he came across in their 2010 nationals(he OCV'd daigo + bonchans team) he beat tokido enroute. he has firmly put his rankings above momochi, kindevu etc.. and i would argue he is as good as kazunko. i garantee if he ever competed in america, he would be the new craze. americans only seem to rate japanese players who have come over, they remain ignorant to the status of players they dont hear of.
as for japan vs usa. i say the top level are equal in skill. ricky, wong, pr rog, krone can pretty much beat anyone, regardless of country
@#46
I know they usually dont do 1v1 which i mentioned the different styles between the countries and being eliminated so to speak before getting the chance to really adapt due to either team formats or the single elim.
MDR the rufus player right? Didnt he show up during the sf4 days being good before winning anything? I probably should have worded myself better instead of saying "usually never" I never heard of kayubetsu, but i have heard mentions of MDR.
But still usually the same guys being mentioned. But it is kinda difficult to determine skill level of an individual when as you mentioned earier their tourneys usually are team based, and the unmentioned character locks.
While i cant blame americans determining a players skill level when the come over, Our set ups usually allow more flexibility and freedom and that would really be a good testament of skill instead of within a strict guidelines like in japan. While its wrong to ignore the many other good players they dont check up on. Im neutral in this stance, i see both sides of it. While our tops are able to tango with japan tops i say everything is basically even too. All information is usually shared, so everyone should be on even ground for the most part just experience is needed.
@33 Raven
"he (Justin) just likes characters that everybody else doesn't use"
Yeah, like O.Sagat in ST, ChunLi in 3S and Rufus in Super...are you kidding me?
Also, how can people even compare the level of play in Japan and America? Imagine Evo with the top 30 players from Japan...or just take a look at the SBO results!
The tourneys where Japan has a 6 month advantage on a game compared to everyone else shouldn't count. Besides super's first year in apr 2010, There hasn't been a game where all countries are on equall ground. No wonder Japan may seem like they are so good...its because they had over half a year to prepare. I don't understand that. Why should fighting games come out so much earlier in japan?
@48: it's not kayubetsu... It's Kyabetsu(Cabbage). One of the best Vipers in the world. He was a VF player who then converted to SF4. MDR wasn't just good. He won some NSB Tournaments. The same Tournaments that America's best entered once and got OCV'd(5 players) by a single Zangief(Aloha.) No matter how you word it, Japanese players have done much better in American tournaments than Americans in Japanese tournaments.
As for you claiming you don't see their best getting dethroned. Do you watch bi-weekly/monthly tournaments in AE? Did you follow the NSB and TRF tournaments in vanilla Arcade? If you did, then you'd know that there ARE some unknown players who put their best on blast, some of them using low tier chars like Claw and Fuerte. Did you not follow Topanga just recently?
This discussion will never end, and you are completely wrong for saying you're neutral. Opinions are always biased. Whether just a little, or a lot. You are sure of your opinion that everyone is on equal grounds, and I am certain that Japan's best is currently far better than US's best. I also believe they will play this game far more in the future than Americans. Just look at 3s.
I think most people who think Americans are at the same level as the Japanese, don't just follow enough Japanese tournament videos/streams in nicovideo.
Couple points:
Dan (from Japan) isn't some random, average Japanese player. He is a TOP CvS2 and ST player, which, in the beginning of SF4's life, was enough to do really well.He was a top 5 BP SF4 Ryu, IIRC.
Japan is definitely still ahead of the US, just in terms of number of skilled players. That fact, alone, tends to keep them ahead at the highest level as well. It's not that their players are necessarily much more gifted at the highest level.. it's that they are at least as gifted (I'd argue they are just better players... slightly, at least), but they also have loads more experience playing against high level tactics, all the time. US players just don't have that, so they are forced to adapt on the spot, when they go to SBO... and in a single-elim tournament... that's kinda tough.
Still, overall, it's hard to objectively look at competition, and come away with any conclusion other than Japan being stronger than everyone... regardless of whether they get a head start on games, or not.
As for top 5 in SSF4..
Daigo, Kazunoko, Kindevu, Mago... after that, it's up in the air. MDR, Iyo, Nemo... who knows.
@#48
As i said in response to the other dude i havent heard of him, and i was using the spelling of the name he was used in his post. Thanks for the correction anyways. And my mentioning of MDR was posed as questions due to uncertainty, not like i saying facts.
Yea i heard about that ocv on the american team but thats about the only time ive heard about an american team for any of the sf4 series games. I dont considered that a good sample size. And there arent alot of japanese folks joining the american tournaments to accurately judge if they do better than americans, its usually there best coming in to clean house which usually about 2-3 of them and none of there lesser knowns showing up.
And about there tournament video and what not, it's hard to even attempt to follow whats going on unless its being restreamed in english. And i was basing that assumption off the interviews we get from them. More often than not its the same collective of people that we are familiar with. And comparing results with their vanilla with our super isnt even the same game really so i didnt even bother mentioning it. And yeah i did mention the possibility of them being dethroned but how often do them players stay consistent with it or we get news of it. From the news we get over here doesnt seem like it happens.
How can i be wrong for claiming to be neutral, i could careless who is better than who. I was just throwing out my observation, which is why i wasnt really trying to dismiss anything completely. i said it was wrong to ignore players that we dont know of. Also mentioned that we all share data and we SHOULD be on even ground, and because of the different nature both countries run their tournaments it hard to cut out a clear winner on who is best.
You seemed to be trying to climb down my throat about all this, reread what i typed. Maybe you understand japanese and are able to follow their videos better than most, i have to go off information provided by others which is why i havent outright dismissed anything. True opinions are usually biased, but i was stating my observations on it all looking for an even ground.
@powderedtoast: true. I was a bit immature when I made that post. My opinion is unchanged, but I had to word it out better. I apologize.
Like I stated, it's a rollercoast of opinions. There's just no end to it. as for the last part, yes I do understand Japanese, and I love watching their events because of their weird sense of humour. The last Kanagawa vs Chiba 39 players vs 39 players team battle was so fun to watch. I won't spoil anything in case the entire event is uploaded to youtube, but it had a movielike ending. As if it was scripted.
#54 it was Aloha who OCV'd the american team, not MDR
@ SabishiiRyuu you have some info wrong. the american team were not OCV'd at NSB, it was the Shizuoka Cup 2009 right before SBO. MDR was a nobody on the scene at this time. he had been in a couple NSB and showed HUGE potential but he had never won an NSB.. but after his showing at the Nationals where his team got 2nd, he has been on a tear, his win rate was insane. he is now maining yun in AE.
i would say kindevu is top 5, but his form since SSF4 has been poor (tournament wise). he uses too many characters and cant seem to get good consistency with any 1 of them.
@ Japan vs USA. marn ricky and wong went to NSB for SSF4 and did very well. justin beat momochi, it came down to the last match daigo vs justin. in casuals marn was the only player to take 1 game off daigo. Ricky beat Uryo in a best of 3, 2-0. and Marn's dudley beat Eita in a best of 3. like powdered said, it comes down to experience but i think the absolute top american players are on the same level as say, the top japanese players, just not the elite ones, example daigo, Mago, MDR, Momochi, Sako etc... but even that is debatable as you saw wong totally destroy Sako's Cammy, and not just once, not just twice.
@#56
39v39 sounds epic, hope there was character variety
@#57
lol never said it was MDR, Sabishii already stated the name aloha ..zangief player in the previous post. Maybe my formatting could have been better to prevent confusion of different statements.
@58: Each team could only use a character once. Therefor: 39 characters in the game = 39 players in each team.
#60 ha, having an opinion isn't dick riding. grow up.
Kinda surprised Mago doesn't mention Tokido as a top 5 japanese player, considering they're good friends.