Updated: BlankaBeast noticed an error with Akuma's point tally. The list has been updated and Akuma's placement has been changed.| # | Name | Battle Points |
| 1 | Yun | 947,503 |
| 2 | Fei Long | 662,210 |
| 3 | Yang | 606,318 |
| 4 | Sagat | 543,063 |
| 5 | Ken | 542,283 |
| 6 | C. Viper | 512,571 |
| 7 | M. Bison (Dictator) | 475,972 |
| 8 | Blanka | 461,833 |
| 9 | Makoto | 429,830 |
| 10 | Dhalsim | 424,692 |
| 11 | Sakura | 423,379 |
| 12 | Ryu | 422,902 |
| 13 | Abel | 421,553 |
| 14 | Rufus | 415,127 |
| 15 | Akuma | 409,490 |
| 16 | Cody | 406,438 |
| 17 | Zangief | 403,442 |
| 18 | Ibuki | 396,515 |
| 19 | Adon | 396,032 |
| 20 | Cammy | 393,971 |
| 21 | Balrog (Boxer) | 388,053 |
| 22 | Juri | 386,390 |
| 23 | T. Hawk | 386,111 |
| 24 | E. Honda | 377,701 |
| 25 | Gen | 376,441 |
| 26 | Chun-Li | 371,955 |
| 27 | Guile | 368,311 |
| 28 | Dudley | 366,458 |
| 29 | Vega | 362,464 |
| 30 | Guy | 357,569 |
| 31 | Rose | 357,310 |
| 32 | Seth | 348,495 |
| 33 | El Fuerte | 331,229 |
| 34 | Dee Jay | 328,610 |
| 35 | Evil Ryu | 324,120 |
| 36 | Gouken | 320,783 |
| 37 | Oni | 273,959 |
| 38 | Dan | 270,936 |
| 39 | Hakan | 261,229 |
So much for Cammy being one of the best characters.
And if Fei Long is so much better than the kung fu brats, why does 'he' have ~300,000 fewer BP than Yun?
seriously not this again please. Yun is not that strong trust me. when you get your hands on AE you'll realize how stupid you were for trying to nerf Yun/Yang. they are a bit stronger but nothing overboard. Fei is stronger then them, how many times to people have to stress this?
@4: No, but the fact that the Fei Long players have so many fewer points is an indication that it may not be as clear-cut as that.
It'll be more interesting if we could see the total number of matches played per character. The data would've been there if he was looking at the BP and matches played/matches won table of the top players.
Are the Yuns' 900k BP spread over 90k matches? Did the Fei Longs' get 600k BP from just 50k matches? That sort of info would put some very useful perspective to this list.
Well Yun is one of the 4 new characters so of course he's gonna be used more than the other characters. Then, you have to take into consideration how good he is and what he is capable of doing. Fei Long is only higher than Yang simply because he got some great buffs, compared to other characters, and I'm guessing more people wanted to see what that difference was.
@7 Why should anyone trust you? Who are you? If he was really not that strong then why are a ton of players switching to him? Justin said he's playing Yun for Evo. Seriously, think about that. Justin is playing the same character as Daigo in EVO. That should tell you something.
lol people are overlooking the fact of reliability of said character and the appeal of a character. And to no surprise the top 5 on the list are all straight forward, fun to use, and have reliable means of getting the job done without having the feeling of overworking for a win.
Also saying just because "hes new" doesnt always qualify for a character over-usage cause the inverse has happened.
Same for characters that where buffed/nerfed. Doesnt always means the buffed up character will start getting played more. Blanka has a good showing despite what happened to him. Gouken, deejay, dan, hakan, and guy gotten alot of adjustments....yet still have a poor showing with the players. And yet people wanna question Cammy standing, clearly people still find her reliable to play with and have a better standing than alot of the others.
Clearly this cannot be looked upon as a tier list of any sort but more of a who is reliable list.
I actually added these up and sent this in to EH too, but I eliminated Oni And ERyu since they are too new.
@15,
I'd trust him before I'd trust you! You and TGDM are biased trolls that have no clue what your talking about.
For instance:
TGDM: "Look at the points, see! see! see!" That must mean Gen is better than Chun and Akuma right!?!?
Meskiuk: "Two players picked the same! see! see! see!" heaven forbid two of the top tournament players would pick the same character right?
Daigo did just win last year with SSF4's Upper Mid Tier Ryu right?
I can't wait to see the MAD success you two have with Yun.
@18
What are you going on about? I never said I'm good nor did I ever bring myself into it. I'm just stating whats out there, because people seem to want to ignore it. Tokido was bitching about AE at FR and Texas Showdown. Saying it's not well received in Japan and Yun is stupid. That's what I'm doing. I'm going to bitch because I want AE to be a good game.
And of course, Umehara accounts for more than 1/5th of the overall Yun points.
@21
Bitching isn't going to make AE a better game. I mean, the game is done. Any complaining that gets done isn't going to change anything (unless you're a part of the camp that think Sentinel got nerfed in MvC3 because people bitched about it). They're not going to patch it; Sven has said the the balance has been working as Capcom intended it to.
@21,
Then get a degree in game design and apply for a job at Capcom.
Until that day, the constant Moaning sounds pathetic and weak.
It was ok for the first month ppl. The game has gone gold and is coming home. Time to stfu and play. Or don't, whatever.
So he's strong. Big deal. Who cares!
That's what I'm going on about!
Everybody will be kung fu fighting!!
instead of holding downback all day thank goodness
I wanna get a copy of the message #2 sends to someone after he gets beat by Yun online LOL
Yun is definitely stronger than Fei Long, it's pretty obvious.
His specials aren't perfect, but very high priority, two good ultras, and the best Super in the game. =P
I think Fei Long and Yang are about neck and neck, personally. Naturally, there are still characters up there that are underrated and underplayed, as a result the list must be taken with a grain of salt. The list does not truly show which characters are stronger than each other, but more of "which characters have reliable options for dealing damage and reliable options for preventing death."
Rush Down characters are being played because zoning characters got nerfed, it's only natural they'll be high on the list. People don't want to pick Ryu because they know they'd get destroyed by the likes of Fei Long and Yun. Was anyone really expecting Daigo to stick with Ryu after all the trouble Mago's Fei Long gave him?
This game is very balanced even with Yun and Fei being very strong.
@27 I don't know about his Ultras since Yun's rarely used them since they don't get into much of a position to. That would go more to Yang which I've seen more people use his ultra.
@15 I thought he was going to use Yang? If he is switching to him where is the proof.
As for AE can't wait to own the twins with Gief you all better watch out the Yun Wrecking Crew going to come after you.
@#30
Both of Yun ultras are viable, but chances are Yun is dominating the other guy and doesnt even get his ultra meter up often. And from what ive seen usually is when Yun does have a decent chunk of ultra meter hes in a good position to die so it wouldnt matter lol.
Genei jin juggle to ultra, damage scaling screws with it. Genei jin super cancel into straight ultra=lost time on genei jin. But manage to use U1 as a punishment option then genei jin to continue juggling ive seen used as a comeback factor.
And his ultra2 ive seen dealing with sagat and dhalsim zoning. But chances are Yun is usually in a good position to not have to rely on ultras or fadc cancels to be effective which no one talks about usually. Unlike most characters in the game you cant really force yun to burn meter which is what really makes him dangerous in the right hands.
Yes im sorta awaiting to use gief and hawk on the twin spammers. Was fun 3-4 command throws to kill a twin with hugo in 3s would be fun to do it all over again :D
Mhm.
It's just a BP Ranking.
I mean Daigo and his sparing Partner have together over 300k BP. If you take this away.. Fei and Yun are about even lol
I love when some random dude posts some chart full of meaningless data and everyone on the internet fights over it like it's the apocalypse.
Seriously people, it's just character usage data and the game has only been out a couple months. Take a deep breath and dry your tears. Everything will be fine.
And this comment thread as usual just turns to OMGTIERS.
This very reason is why old school fighting game communities appeal so much more to me. You bought a game, and learnt the ups and downs to it. If there was a broken character, you either learnt to use him or you learnt to destroy him.
You didn't bitch about the problem every day of your life in order to get it changed- what's done was done.
why can't people be like that now?
EG: OMGOMGOMG SENTINEL AND DARK PHOENIX ON MVC3 IS OP. NERF HIM NERF HIM.
They nerfed Sentinel and people are like sweet; though you've just weakened someone else's main so you can stand more of a chance; that's poor sportsmanship [plus we all know they didn't nerf it for us.]
Now take Dark Phoenix; omgomg so broken. So you learn bloody 'Anti-Phoenix technology' as has been coined on some streams such as I believe WNF. You don't bitch to the extent that either in a patch or the next game iteration she's gone from 420k health to 350k health, with a slower teleport, worse fireballs and the bird hyper but doesn't have any invincibility.
God. This is why I usually ignore this comment section. *Goes back to playing SSF4 TRAINING MODE, because I actually try to learn how to beat things that phase me*
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Akuma needs to be corrected to:
409490 - This moves him up a lot
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i didn't know all the data that goes into making a tier list is available for ae already?
are tier lists or character rankings based off things like frame data,walk speed or special recovery time etc or is the tier list made up of the most used character?
Gee guys seems like a conspiracy to replace every character and have one street fighter character? lol stfu you guys are crazy lmao!
@15
Your also clearly biased because you want to believe the game is completely fair. Have I played the game yet? No. I wish I could of course, but I haven't. Yet I don't completely disregard the opinions of top players so that I can believe in some fairness that is non-existent. Daigo has said that Yun is so good, he "can't believe they made him that good." and Ryan Hart has admitted that the Yun shuts down the aggressive playstyle so well that even in a mirror match, the Yun who is more aggressive steamrolls the other, which in this case, was Daigo.
Maybe people have't played AE yet, and I'm sure things are likely to change in the coming years, hopefully because of patches, but the fact of the matter is, the Japanese play a variety of characters, but top players in every country play to win and these are the characters they believe they can do that with. So don't call people out just because they seem immature because they're not trolls they're just quick to call it.
@45
I think the point that he's making is that judging the "fairness" of the game based on the interpretations of god-level players isn't practical. Tier lists are composed under the assumption that this is a match between two players of the highest caliber. Most people aren't at that level, or even close. So, as "fairness" is a subjective term, fair for god-level Daigo isn't the same as fair for Joe Schmoe. And as there are much more Joe Schmoes than Daigos, it balances out.
What I mean is, Yun is only gonna dominate if the player is good enough to do so. That's the bottom line.
@47. Yes!
@Mrdrofficer.
I'm surprised at you man. You usually seem like a fairly level headed guy.
I don't take a few pros opinions and let it turn me into a raving maniac on the Internet! I choose to formulate my own opinion based on all of the available information. Not to be pointed in one direction and start running!
Is everyone oblivious to the FACT that both previous versions of SF4 have had characters that had tremendous power levels, and serious advantages over the rest the cast.
That most ppl feel that the gap between Yun/Everyone is SMALLER than the advantages that Guile had over most of the Super cast!
Were either games broken? No!
Was Guile un-beatable? No!
Can we beat Yun? Yes!
Right now you guys have gotten yourselves into a frenzy over a general consesus created by like 5 ppl!
Anyone here think things aren't going to be different in the real world, when 3,000,000 ppl get a chance to expose Yun!
In closing, I'm not saying "Everything is fair", but it isn't game breaking! It's going to be a tough challenge, and I'm up to it.
Also, I think it's trash that your hoping "patches" will FIX this game for you!
Call me old school, but how about skill changing the game for you!
Your only going to get out what you INVEST! I promise you, if you put the proper time into your character, learn the match ups, even the lowest tier can be successful!
@49 I agree with your view on patches.
I get that it gives the developer the ability to improve their game after it's been released to the public and that its presence has proven essential in a multitude of genres and games...
But in fighting games, I just rather they keep the game as is and let the players themselves overcome. Or at the very least, let the game be out for at least a year before you patch it. The way MvC3 was handled....it irks me a little. And I don't even play Sent.
@Aluppoj
You're right, I may have come off too strongly (don't type at 3am!) and believe it or not but I typed a whole apology out that got deleted for some reason, so I'll make this brief.
I apologize about calling you out because I think we have the same view on balance actually. I just support patches if a character is OP, but I don't know if Yun is or not because I haven't played the game yet. So should there be patch for Yun? I don't know. I do think people should learn matchups and overcome (I play Hakan/Honda for godsake) but I think for the longevity of the game we should take advantage of DLC, which I do feel can only extend the life of a game like SF.
Also, sorry about getting mad earlier, I just don't think it's fair to call those guys trolls because they'r only interpreting the data on the base level of Yun being so far ahead. Is it Daigo and popularity based? Sure. But you can't blame them for believing the Yun hype train. He is a sexy beast after all.
I think a lot of these players have a CoD mentality, where they want everything to be friendly, lol.
That's not to say that Yun isn't OP, because he is. That was Capcom's sole intention. Since tourny players care about winning, he'll get heavily abused, I'm sure of it.
Xbox. If you got it, hit me up. I'm always down.
MrDrOfficer
People are talking like every character is going to have a 5-5 match against every other character. That isn't going to happen, and if it did the game would be boring. Ryu had a disadvantage against Fei Long. All the top players agreed on that, and some like Daigo even said that Fei Long was Ryu's out-and-out hardest match. Daigo had trouble with Mago. Then Yun comes out and he's good against Fei Long. I don't know whether it's 5-5, 6-4 or 9-1, but Yun is a better match for Fei than Ryu was. So since Mago is Daigo's nemesis, Daigo switches to Yun for a better chance. All of a sudden Mago isn't overwhelming him anymore and Daigo's like "WTF Yun is OP :)" and Mago is like "WTF Yun is OP :(".
That'd be like if I played Honda against Ryu and then switched to playing as Bison against Ryu. Of COURSE I'm going to notice a drastic difference.
The thing is that the natural counters to Yun, Yang and Fei are not that well-known yet - Makoto's one of them, Zangief's another. When the Lee brothers are getting pressured relentlessly by a character like Makoto, they're not going to have a chance to store Super because they'll be using their EXs just to keep her off them. Very few characters use their Supers very often. All the videos I've seen where the Lee brothers use their supers are ones where the opponent was silly enough to turtle and let them spam palms umpteen times.
Mark my words: someone's gonna bring Makoto to EVO and embarass more than one Kung Fu fighter. Maybe Yun will still win EVO, maybe he won't. It also depends on player skill, and currently the kung fu fighters are getting all the talented players. Another factor is gonna be who else is played, since if Makoto gets put up against Zangief she might get knocked out before she has a chance to take Yun down a peg. But currently, I'm not seeing anything in these guys that makes me count them in the same league as Akuma was in ST.
@56: I certainly HOPE Capcom's learned since then!
Thank you for your perspective. No sarcasm. It's a calm, rational argument that the Lee brothers, gods as they may be, DO have bad match-ups and counter-picks available. Again, thank you.
The great thing is that the counter-picks themselves have counter-picks so once more people start counter-picking against Yun and Fei several more characters will again become viable as counter-picks, for example if someone picks Zangief as a counter-pick to Yun then they'll have to worry about Sagat, etc. The twins have more than their fair share of favorable match-ups but to be fair, according to the SSF4 tier list here, Bison only has 4 bad match-ups in all of SSF4 and he's still not exactly dominating. He WOULD be if nobody in a tournament bothered picking those 4 characters, but as it is, they do.
@56
"But currently, I'm not seeing anything in these guys that makes me count them in the same league as Akuma was in ST."
Thank you. This is what I've been trying to say. They're good, they may even be great, but OP? I don't think so. I just don't see it.
@ibLeo
Just to put in perspective, no one is saying that Yun is STAkuma, they're arguing the virtues of having one character have a majority of great matches. Case in point, Honda. Honda is not OP since every fireball and rush-down character swarms him, and turtlers aren't easy for any character, but people are saying Honda is the best in Super because, with practice, he shuts down a lot of mid-tier/LT characters. And that's the real problem.
Now, your point about Makoto is sadly moot (no offense) because your essentially saying another top character will come in and beat another top character. Of course. That's almost besides the complaint. A valid complaint would be how Gen or Hakan handles the majority of the top tier characters. Do they have any favored match ups? Because if they don't, that's where the problem truly lies and the twins may very well be a factor in keeping the low-tier down. Still, only time will tell.
People only stick around with these games because of variety. A 5-5 matchup with every character wouldn't be boring, as you say, it would be even more exciting. The true heart of SF and all competitive sports lie in the fallibility and strength of your equipment (character) and your mind-games with your opponent, something SF does excellently. That's a combination that is never boring and doesn't need Capcom purposely widening the divide of to make it interesting.
Finally, a fair and balanced fighter shouldn't be seen as a negative because we've never fully gotten one. Arcade Vanilla is close, bar sagat. And ST is close, barring Akuma. In each case, one bad egg ruined the bunch. And still, it wasn't fully balanced in either case (ST had grappler problems). SF shouldn't be about counter-picks, it should be about sticking with one character and going farther than anyone thought possible. Not switching because the match up is bad. So if Yun is a problem, we should complain because change is good. Nerfed Sentinel has only improved MVC3 and nerfed Sagat, (which, granted people still complain about) gave the rest of the cast room to shine in Super. A game with 39 (41?) characters should be viable with 39 characters, no other argument makes sense.
Still, like I said, I don't know if there's a problem yet, we'll see how these brothers are very soon.
@27 i completely agree with you and the rushdown characters... based on the nerfs and buffs, majority of the rushdown characters have gotten alot better. Also majority of the zoning characters got nerfed. Im not saying zoning characters are worse or rushdown are the best. But in general this update favors rushdown. IMO ill rather see alot of yuns and fei's. Other than guile, rose , honda. You understand my points? I find it more interesting getting beating by a "OP" character that can completely rush you down and make you feel helpless other than being beat by an "OP" character that can zone you out and make you feel stupid
also with the twins, they are just like majority of the rush down characters. all offense and no defense so in reality any character that can rush them down b4 they can or any grappler will shut down their game. So as far as zoning goes i feel that the only zoning characters that will give the twins a problem b4 they get in their comfortable range will be balrog, dahlsim, and even guile. Only advantage the twins have against them are dive kick feints and meter building. Which is why Yun is Considered very good because ALL of his Special moves are VERY GOOD both ex and non ex. and from reports from ono saying his dragon kick is 5 frame startup. Yun getting knocked down is big trouble. I think people complain about him because they still dont know how to deal with dive kick characters. I mean rufus was not as much of a problem cuz he is a bigger character so its easier to hit him out of the air. but this is all IMO tho so W/e.
Actually Fei beats the Twins this has been mentioned before mak is decent against Gief Momochi owned two of the best Giefs in Japan with Mak of course momochi is damn good with a number of the cast. Sagat will be in the pocket of Yun if Gief & Hawk are the opponents. But also if it is still 2/3 let's not forget the can counter right back.
Kung Fu over shoto anyday!