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Clip: Why 'stickless joysticks' should be banned for Marvel vs. Capcom 3

Posted by Jonathan 'Catalyst' Grey • March 10, 2011 at 8:28 a.m. PST
DFW Jay recorded a video with Amp demonstrating why the Hit Box / Fight Board controller should be banned for Marvel vs. Capcom 3, while also asking Capcom to fix the input exploits that are possible in the game now.

There are a couple of things that are possible besides blocking in both directions, check out the video for a run down.

Amp added these notes in the comments on the subject.

1) Yes, I should have worded myself better in the video. Hit boxes can cause problems, but it does not intrinsically cause problems simply by existing. I understand this, and if you read the thread on Tech Talk where we are extensively researching this issue, I am one of the people who understand this better than most.

2) People assume that since the Husser Brothers' branded Hit Box doesn't do this, that SOCD inputs are somehow an "Xbox exclusive" issue. This is far from true, our research has shown that SOCD's are possible on the PS3, and thus Capcom needs to patch this issue.

3) I and the members of SRK's Tech Talk forum are in the process of writing a full PSA for TO's and the community to fully and completely explain the SOCD issue, why it's not a console exclusive or controller exclusive issue, and what can be done about it.

Comments

jp_ftw said on March 10, 2011 at 8:34 a.m.

Such sick things possible... repeated bird kicks... so broken? Is this guy serious?

#1
trauma213 said on March 10, 2011 at 8:40 a.m.

the controllers dont need to be banned the game needs to be fixed... in so many different ways

#2
Xurkey said on March 10, 2011 at 8:53 a.m.

Until a patch is out we have to ban these sticks.

#3
Amp said on March 10, 2011 at 8:56 a.m.

Did I actually say fight boards should be banned for Marvel 3?

Man, must have been a long day at that tournament.

For now, yeah it's pretty broken, but the actual solution is for Capcom to patch this behavior. Banning fight boards won't solve the problem.

...and I need to hit that gym. Damn.

#4
werewolfgold said on March 10, 2011 at 9:06 a.m.

Heh. "Onegaishimasu."

Yeah, not feeling repeating Spinning Bird Kicks. Hopefully, this gets fixed swiftly.

#5
FroggyMan77 said on March 10, 2011 at 9:08 a.m.

Aren't repeated Spinning Bird Kicks already possible without this special controller? Desk has already shown some. I guess you just have to have incredibly good execution to do it otherwise.

#6
Amp said on March 10, 2011 at 9:10 a.m.

werewolfgold, yeah, showing my weeaboo there. It's not like I was asking Seth, I was asking Niitsuma to fix that stuff.

#7
R4HU1 said on March 10, 2011 at 9:16 a.m.

I think this would actually make it more interesting.

#8
MANDINGO said on March 10, 2011 at 9:19 a.m.

(This user was banned.)

#9
Donkey_Disk said on March 10, 2011 at 9:25 a.m.

Is it possible to have up, down and left/right input all the same time on a stickless to 100% guarantee that you block all aerial tags?

#10
Amp said on March 10, 2011 at 9:28 a.m.

Donkey_Disk, I haven't tested this, but when I think about it, the most you could do is block both the up and down choices at the same time.

Imagine when it happens on stick, I was pretty sure if you pressed forward-up, or forward-down, the game registered is as an up or down choice, and you had to use straight-forward to make the forward choice for the exchange combo.

#11
Sakanade said on March 10, 2011 at 10:06 a.m.

Yo Amp i was the black kid with the wooden hitbox who was at fight club, The "Hitbox" made by Husser brothers doesnt have these problems. only the fightboxes mod from madcatz have this problem. Meaning they SHOULDNT be banned, others i have no problem with but genuine "Hitbox" shouldnt be banned since it doesnt have these problems.

#12
Sakura said on March 10, 2011 at 10:18 a.m.

banning the sticks won't stop ppl from using them in online tournaments...

the game needs to be fixed...

#13
havitz said on March 10, 2011 at 10:19 a.m.

I personally use a hitbox and the things he is doing ARE not able to be done on the stick I use. I custom build my own.. Using V1.4 Cthulhu board and I CANNOT exploit even if I wanted to. Should they be banned? No. Should the Madcatz board hitbox be banned until they fix the game? Maybe.. But making stupid videos about how you found 1 weird gimmic which is still possible on an arcade stick. Waste of my time.

#14
Chaide said on March 10, 2011 at 10:33 a.m.

Didn't a representative for the Hitbox in a previous article comment that this isn't an issue in their official models? And also that is was only an issue on the 360?

Not to sound harsh, but people need to educate themselves and stop making blind assumptions before they cry ban on a perfectly viable control scheme.

I understand that it's not a true-to-life Arcade scheme, but there are more people who don't have access to Arcades than those who do, so the legitimacy of the control style shouldn't be called into question, especially when only certain builds of this controller are causing issues.

I don't own a Hitbox, but I can clearly see its advantages. It's a great transition from keyboard, and seems like a perfect hybrid when combined into a Fightstick form factor.

Yes, there are some issues, but as stated above, not every Hitbox is a culprit. I'd like to see a patch personally, but that's entirely up to the developers.

No need to let such a great idea die over something so particular.

#15
BlankaBeast said on March 10, 2011 at 10:44 a.m.

Its not a REAL problem since tourney players dont even use them anyway.

#16
IrPanda said on March 10, 2011 at 10:53 a.m.

@Chaide
It can also be done with the ps3 game pad using the D-Pad and stick.

#17
lordgootecks said on March 10, 2011 at 10:53 a.m.

#16 lol you don't watch wnf

but anyways, leave the hitbox alone ;_;

#18
jdigitalseven said on March 10, 2011 at 11:02 a.m.

If you wanna use 360 sticks, then mod it yourself to play on a PS3...More PS3/PS2 converted sticks are out there vs 360 ones.

#19
BlankaBeast said on March 10, 2011 at 11:16 a.m.

#18 Guilty as charged, in that case they should be tested before the tourney and banned if they are the bad ones.

#20
RandomDP said on March 10, 2011 at 11:20 a.m.

HitBox? More like CHEAPbox ahah!

#21
HardRojo said on March 10, 2011 at 11:30 a.m.

I actually fought someone who abused this yesterday, he kept doing Spinning Bird Kick with Chun Li until I couldn't take it anymore and Level 3 XFed with Akuma till I finally got his Chun Li down, the guy couldn't do anything with his other characters...

#22
Amp said on March 10, 2011 at 11:41 a.m.

A few things:

1) Yes, I should have worded myself better in the video. Hit boxes can cause problems, but it does not intrinsically cause problems simply by existing. I understand this, and if you read the thread on Tech Talk where we are extensively researching this issue, I am one of the people who understand this better than most.

2) People assume that since the Husser Brothers' branded Hit Box doesn't do this, that SOCD inputs are somehow an "Xbox exclusive" issue. This is far from true, our research has shown that SOCD's are possible on the PS3, and thus Capcom needs to patch this issue.

3) I and the members of SRK's Tech Talk forum are in the process of writing a full PSA for TO's and the community to fully and completely explain the SOCD issue, why it's not a console exclusive or controller exclusive issue, and what can be done about it.

#23
Amp said on March 10, 2011 at 11:41 a.m.

catalyst if you add anything from the comments to this article, please let it be my comment #23.

#24
Gameplan said on March 10, 2011 at 11:54 a.m.

I think blocking both ways at the same time is far worse than spamming charge moves.

#25
HawkinsT said on March 10, 2011 at 11:56 a.m.

This works on pads too... you want them banned as well?

#26
Aqua said on March 10, 2011 at 12:13 p.m.

yeah, this works on standard Xbox and PS3 pads

there's more pad warriors than hitbox users out there.. why only ban the latter group?

#27
Xurkey said on March 10, 2011 at 12:22 p.m.

Can we please ban using a pad in tournaments as well?

#28
Mit said on March 10, 2011 at 12:30 p.m.

He was definitely not getting those charge moves out any faster than is possible on stick. He was definitely getting them out easier, but not faster. Watch Desk's Chun-Li video.

The crossup blocking is a bigger issue and needs to be fixed, although still shouldn't be banned because it's possible on pad.

#29
A2ZOMG said on March 10, 2011 at 12:36 p.m.

@29

That basically. This video wasn't really a good argument for banning stickless joysticks.

#30
cvs said on March 10, 2011 at 12:52 p.m.

Banning something that no one really uses in tournaments to begin with?

#31
Fumetsu_Gaisuto said on March 10, 2011 at 12:59 p.m.

You can do it on a Pad as well with LS an the D-pad, which means you can block both directions on a Pad too. So in conclusion, the friggin game needs a patch. Spec mode this blocking in both directions crap, and zero's horse s*&^. The End.

#32
xShonuffx said on March 10, 2011 at 1:11 p.m.

Listen guys he said this can be patched he said it wrong. No they don't need to be banned but it needs to be fixed. However since he is a hitbox user he would like to use it at tournaments but this would provide unfair advantages that stick users don't have. So calm down.

#33
Guile4Life said on March 10, 2011 at 1:17 p.m.

Ban the game its the game thats broken not the hitbox lol this game is so broken its sad i was sooo stoked for this game now after playing for awhile and seeing what cheap crap this game has and no spectator mode and have to pay for characters that are alrdy on the disc its lame SSf4 did it right. great price great game well balanced

#34
Sakanade said on March 10, 2011 at 1:30 p.m.

before this gets out of hand the "Hitbox" is a brand made by the Hu??er brothers(A bit of confusion here becuase srk is SS while facebook says FF). anything like it should be called a fightbox. This is to reduce confusion. Also amp your number 2 point on comment #23 is null because i was at the same tournament and i COULDNT do it.

This is the SECOND video like this and BOTH times they ARENT using "Hitbox" they are using modded fightboxes, also BOTH times are on XBOX. All major tournaments are on ps3 anyway so this isnt a real issue.

I would like if you guys stopped posting stuff like this because a vast majority of the FG scene are trolls who cry or complain about EVERY little thing.

#35
Amp said on March 10, 2011 at 1:46 p.m.

@Sakanade

You're using a Husser Brothers' made Hit Box, the PCB inside the Hit Box is, at least I believe, a PS360 from Akishop. That PCB uses a data protocol that does not allow for SOCD output.

There ARE PCB's out there that can do SOCD output on the PS3, the SIXAXIS being one of them. And our research has shown that when you have SOCD's on Marvel 3 on PS3, the same stuff happens.

This is -not- an Xbox exclusive issue.

I hate trying to do damage control.

#36
SSJ3X said on March 10, 2011 at 1:56 p.m.

Welps, hopefully they can fix this soon. I'm not a stick user, but I could understand how people can use these sticks very well. I'm pretty sure they won't ban that particular stick at tournaments since I know a few people who play on them too.

#37
Sakanade said on March 10, 2011 at 2:05 p.m.

:(

i just dont want the Hitbox banned. That would suck major balls nor do i want people trolling the hitbox either

#38
Amp said on March 10, 2011 at 2:38 p.m.

@Sakanade:

I don't want the Hit Box, or any fight board for that matter, banned either.

However, when you make posts like that, you're (admittedly in a very small way) encouraging the idea that SOCD's are not a problem on PS3. This might encourage Capcom NOT to fix the SOCD problem in Marvel 3 on PS3.

If SOCD's don't get fixed on PS3 Marvel 3, then we'll be in a far worse situation than we are now, believe me.

#39
mdg164 said on March 10, 2011 at 2:58 p.m.

This is no different than "plinking", "Kara throwing", or "option selects". It's exploiting the game's programing in ways that were ORIGINALLY unintended to get an advantage. Patch it all or none.

#40
Wolfeyes187 said on March 10, 2011 at 3:15 p.m.

People keep saying you can do it on a controller too, but the difference is you have to move your right hand away from the buttons and put it on the other d-pad/analog. That defeats the purpose. The hitbox you can keep your hands in the same place so there is a advantage.

I say patch the game, but until then don't allow the hitbox to be used until it is fixed.

#41
KAZZNORE said on March 10, 2011 at 3:17 p.m.

CAPCOM MADE the freaking engine you think they don't know those things are possible? again another sovabola that want attention..

#42
kornbeaner said on March 10, 2011 at 3:33 p.m.

Honestly, I say until there is a major tournament where top 32 is nothing but hitbox control players leave it as is. I was at Wednesday Night Fights last week and Saw a hitbox player Named Ryan (I believe) go up against Combofiend, even with the all the advantages the hitbox controller is shown to have, Combofiend bodied Ryan into losers and then bodied him again in Grandfinals. I mean the matches weren't really that close, so whatever advantage Ryan supposedly had, combofiend wiped out. I'm all for making things as fair as possible but being able to do specials faster doesn't make you a better player. The hitbox players still have to have great execution in order to maximize their damage potential, which is the soul of any great fighting game. In the end, let the hitbox players play they aren't breaking the game anymore then Kara throwing or option-selecting lets not be so quick to cast stones.

#43
Catalyst said on March 10, 2011 at 3:43 p.m.

@Amp

I'll add that into the story, thanks.

#44
bobaluz said on March 10, 2011 at 4:18 p.m.

only reason why he was able to spam does charges is because he turned on the turbo and if it was on hes holding the directions for the charge move at the same time so when he launches his special the 2 sec timer doesnt reset and yes i do beileve those shXts should be banned as well

#45
Jerecaine said on March 10, 2011 at 6:24 p.m.

I heard you can do this on BlazBlue(360), MvC2, and HDR, so I dont think they need to be banned.

#46
Raven said on March 10, 2011 at 7:02 p.m.

Lol, people are going to spam so hard in this game. xD

#47
calvinfoo said on March 10, 2011 at 7:11 p.m.

I don't see any anyone crying out loud in SSF4 because of hitbox. The problems lies on MvC3, not the controller. Calling it to ban the controller doesn't solve any of the problem.

Hitbox is just an INPUT DEVICE. is just a matter of preference. Some people prefers to use Pad, some Stick, or even Hitbox.

I would agree to ban hitbox if hitbox causes problem, but why it doesn't affect SSF4? Obviously it is the MvC3 that gives problem, not the controller

#48
calvinfoo said on March 11, 2011 at 1:02 a.m.

#40. agree with you. "plinking", "Kara throwing", or "option selects" are practicaly not part of deal. Really hate those moves.

#49


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