Blocking in both directions with a 'stickless joystick'

Looks bs to me, ban them.

now, this should be patched asap....

this is almost as bad as using a turbo controller IMO. ban please.

sounds like a flaw of the game...not the controller.

That Captain America is juicing.
Yeah, a patch to the game should work, i'd imagine. No need to put a creative company out of business over something like this.

Lawl, no more crossups.

This doesn't work in the SF4 games. If you hold down both it prioritizes walking forward over blocking.

1. doesn't work in most games (SF4 and SSF4 for sure). it's basically a bug/oversight from Capcom QA that lets opposing cardinal directions being pressed

2. on PS3 all (most) stick PCBs are restricted and this doesn't work

2. blocking both directions also works with standard PS3 gamepad (d-pad + analog). ban ps3 pads? :D

lol this is like auto block. I mean, if you think about it, its IMPOSSIBLE to block both left AND right at the same time, so this is really broken imo since it removes any mix-up game you might have

It doesn't work in BlazBlue as well, or the Arcana Hearts series. Just seems to be how MvC 3 was coded.

I'm all about custom sticks or control schemes but this seems like too much. Get rid of it imo.

Its only MvC3 were this happens. Patch is all that is needed, no ban required.

man, that'd be nice vs. Wesker. Stupid teleporting crossups are so annoying.

Yeah, this definitely should be banned from MvC3 until the game gets a patch to fix the problem. I mean, this REALLY gives you and unfair advantage over everyone else.

This might be a really retarded idea, but I wonder if in SSF4 you could "plink" a double block during a crossup situation, ensuring an auto-block. You technically could do the same on a stick (though not very reliably), but it'd be a lot easier on one of these. Just a thought.

Don't ban the controllers. Don't put an indie business out of business that may, in the future, help out the community and gaming in general.

We know were getting a patch one day and I'm sure Capcom is aware of it. It just takes time. I mean, look at how different everyone plays now vs. two weeks ago.

Hey everybody, JohnGrimm here. Some of you may remember me, I'm one of the representatives of the Hit Box. We've been doing our own studies on this over at SRK, and we've got some interesting results.

First of all, these issues are 360 only! None of these techniques work on any PS3 fighting game. Why this is I will never know. Basically, if you're going to EVO, you won't have to worry about this, since EVO is PS3 only.

Secondly, there are only a handful of boards that allow this. The stock Madcatz TE and SE boards are one of those boards. If someone modded a 360 TE into a button controller, they could do this. As far as I know, the Cthulu board doesn't have this issue, it overrides the first input in favor of the second. For example, if you were to hold back and press forward, you would not block anything, you would start walking forward.

We are currently doing more tests to confirm these issues. I would ask that you not cry ban just yet, as it's not the fault of the hardware, but the fault of the software. I'm sure Capcom and other companies would be willing to patch the input recognition for their games if they knew about this issue. If you have any questions, I'll be here to answer with what I know.

Sounds bannable to me, unless they patch it. True, it'd hurt an indy project, but if something isn't done everyone would be forced to buy a sticklless "stick" then.

Wow , people who are thinking of getting a stickless joystick need to come to terms with the fact they arent good at fighting games and never will be.

Capcom shouldnt patch this. Let the no lifers get their free wins. Its cleary all they have.

This must have been what Chen was whispering to UltraDavid on the stream on WNF...

@JohnGrimm

Thanks for chiming in, I've added your note into the story.

@Catalyst

Much appreciated. I feel a lot of people are going to ignore the comments.

Wouldn't a software patch be a lot more costly than just banning the Hit Box in 360 tournaments?

@Otter_of_Death
Costly to developers? Maybe. Costly to tournament organizers? Certainly not. I'm not sure how costly it would be to patch the issue, but this is something that shouldn't be possible in the first place. The word lazy gets thrown around a lot when it comes to MvC3, and as much as I'd hate to say it since I absolutely love Capcom, this does feel like a shortcut they took with MvC3 that isn't in SFIV.

I can understand the frustration with this coming to light, but how fair would it be to ban a controller because of one not game breaking bug that only works on one console? I think it would be a bit unfair, especially with the new EVO layout and seeding, to stop someone from participating in an event just because the console the tourney is being played on is coded poorly.

@23

The same thing can be done on pad controllers with a d-pad and a d-stick.

Hey, anyone who is looking for the Xbox 360 Special Edition version of Marvel vs Capcom 3 can bid for it here. Auction will be up in less than 24 hours.

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In an interview, I think Seth Killian mentioned that it can cost in excess of $10,000 to develop a patch and distribute it on Playstation Network/Xbox Live. It probably wouldn't be a problem if they just bundled the patch in with some update in the near future, like the inevitable update in preparation for Jill and Shuma.

It's a shame to see a great new idea like Hit Boxes facing a such a hurdle so early.

No crossups? Just don't allow it for mvc3 xbox until it gets patched.

Problem is the game not the controller. Patch the game. No ban. This can be replicated on pad anyway.

Just make sure we as a community make a very heavy push on Capcom to fix this.

@#25 With the only difference that its like 100 times harder to do it on a gamepad. Imagine doing that in the middle of a match on a fast paced game like MVC3. It kind of defeats the purpose so you might as well just block normally.

@JohnGrimm Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against the hit box and I know this isn't hit box's fault, I mean, anyone can make his own custom 'stickless' controller. But even if it's a software problem specific to one console (which I hope Capcom fixes soon) I still think it gives people using the hit box (or any other 'stickless' controller for that matter) an unfair advantage over people with normal controllers. Being able to block both sides at the same time on a game like MVC3 where cross ups are so dangerous is pretty big IMO.

@Gameplan
I agree the advantage isn't fair, but it's not exclusive to the Hit Box. Just because it's not as easy to do on a pad, the pad is alright but the Hit Box isn't? And again, specific boards don't allow it, an official Hit Box made by the Huffer brothers now come standard with the Cthulu board, which doesn't allow these input shenanigans.

I'd just hate to see something like a ban be placed on the Hit Box for something that is not the direct fault of the design of the Hit Box.

I say we ban sticks because it's way easier to doubletap and plink. but we can't use pads because they can block all crossups. hmm kinect anyone?

Meh I don't really care. Patch spectator mode first.

What kind of hardware limitation doesn't allow the PS3 to register left and right simultaneously? They're just buttons. It's like pressing Circle + Square.

Strange.

@JohnGrimm

You CAN do it on the PS3, with the controller, just hold left on the d-pad and right on the stick.

This needs to be patched

ban them on 360 until patch? most tournaments are on ps3 anyway

The games already totally broken. so this isnt a big deal imo

This isn't on grounds to ban.

Like the arcade stick has some pros to pad so does the stickless stick,

It's called evolution.

Stickless> Stick> Pad.

Just accept it's perks for what it's worth.

lol ANOTHER xbox problem..... wow

so what if you can block both ways. its not like the hit box gets you tourney wins. why don't you haters pick one up and try to use it. you already have a disadvantage of controlling your character.

Interesting... since I play on a keyboard... very interesting.

its ok, but may not be so much an easy patch

Ban this already, it's bad enough they allow pad players already. Soon you see idiots bring in keyboards (which this gimmick is) next you'll see people bringing in their move/kinect.

John Grimm was right. No one here seems to pay attention to anything other than the headline.

sorry to get all fanboy but LOL@360 failing again.

on a serious note banning controllers is as dumb as banning stages or costumes IMO. If you care that much then do use a favor and make a fighter fans want.

Don't ban the Hit Box it is a sweet idea just make all the tourneys PS3 till its rectified

I'm sorry; how is allowing pad players bad? If anything, stick users have an advantage.

I don't see the problem with this. The guy didn't like add a button where it's programed to do a damaging combo with the press of the button. There's still the skill to block low or high when you get rushed down.

@45: as i posted earlier (everyone ignores comments and just trolls *sigh*)

it works with the PS3 STANDARD GAMEPAD!! as well (hold back on D-Pad and forward on analog stick).

blocking in both directions just by button holding? sounds like Mortal Kombat!

@Aqua
Yep was was just reading through to see if anyone figured it out, i just tried it and it worked, and if u hold down back on or forward on D-pad u block all high and low :|

my bad, overhead work if u hold down lol

I understand John Grimm's dissapointment but it's poor form for him to call Capcom lazy and MVC3 development 'poorly coded'. Dev companies are not going to, and shouldn't consider how the game performs with non-standard controllers. I know most people here probably think that is an obnoxious thing to say but I don't think people realise how expensive development is, especially those crying for a patch to fix something like this. It's the same as the 'turbo dashing' with the MadCatz sticks, this is not Capcom's problem, it's going to land with stick makers and tournament organisers.

Just to add, I wouldn't be surprised if this issue was present in the low-level Microsoft input handling api and games that DON'T have this problem have coded something above the low level to safeguard against this.

a while ago i saw hulk hit trish when she was standing behind him with his hard punch , and when i killed a guys character i pulled a super to hit his next char on his way out which happen to b the direction i was facing but end up getting the super with the opposite direction input while not facing that direction.... game has serious direction problems.

I think stickless sticks (called "keyboards") should be the future; fdon'tck faschist tournaments and their roolz. You know Hitler was a pad player, you can't reason with these people.

I can just hear the commentators now... "Why didn't he block in both directions?" THE FUTURE IS HERE PEOPLE.

This now goes into a whole new breed of gaming that needs to be taken seriously. We've taken a traditional way of playing, (controllers and sticks) and now have turned it into basically a hybrid of a Keyboard. So what if I mod my Keyboard to play on the 360? You gonna ban me? You better not. These guys can make a BUTTON for jump?!?!! that's just retarded if you then think that keyboards should be banned.

Then there's other issues..

10 years ago nobody would've thought somebody could or would've had the balls or the skills to mod a joystick into a touch button stick...So what comes next?

What about a finger controller? Like the Power-glove idea from Nintendo back in the days but instead, make it with finger controls. Twitch a finger or bend a finger....fireball. close fist? Block. Middle finger....taunt? This seems far fetched and a joke...but is it?!......IS IT?! In another 5 years, what if somebody invents a way to use the Kinect as a controller and starts just moving his hands around to pull of shortcut moves and gameplay shortcuts that cant be achieved with a joystick? Is he banned? We just gonna say, well it ain't figured out yet, so we'll cross that bridge when somebody gets there?

Naw man...either ban it and make EVERYBODY play on the same skill level, or make ANYTHING available for everybody to use....that includes Turbo buttons, macro use, programmable buttons....etc. Lets face it. If all I have to do is hold down two keys to block in any direction...while some poor guy has to take gambles and take a 50/50 guess on what direction to block.....its just not fair. Not to mention a JUMP button?!?! What if I invent a block button? Common people...if ya'll don't see my point, then you should have no problem with turbo, macros, and programmable keys..

I find it's only NOT fair if WE get folded by one of these guys...but if we see some guy folding guys we don't give $#!T about...whatever, its all fun and exciting to us.

I'm done venting. (Needed to get that out) I myself don't care about it...I just don't think they should ban turbo or programmable keys then..They were invented YEARS ago and they were banned. So you invent something now and its allowed?!....naw man, ban it or allow everything.

BTW: I don't use turbo or programmable keys and stuff like that, I just believe in the principle of the whole thing. I use stick....and even then, I get cheezed when my buddies use controllers and program a focus button to left bumper, or a 3X button to another button. One thumb or finger to do what I gotta use 3 fingers to do?! But hey, if I gotta deal with that, and its allowed? then make EVERYTHING allowed.

Why don't we all just go to guitar hero controllers for playing? Then everyone's at a disadvantage.

Seriously, look at the number of sticks in tourneys, then look at the percentage that a: have the correct board, and b: are actually worth a crap in tourneys. I'm by far a great, or even good, player by many standards, but I can still think of a few ways to punish players who would just block all day. Even IF it blows up for people exploiting that, provided they don't patch it, you'd have the option to ban them at that point.

http://shoryuken.com/f177/fight-board...

http://shoryuken.com/f177/fight-board...

http://shoryuken.com/f177/fight-board...

"*Xbox 360 experiments conducted by Amp, PlayStation 3 experiments conducted by JohnGrimm. Experiments provided identical results."

@ 59 "Provided they don't patch it"

That has to be my biggest issue with a lot of gamers as of late, I remember when games weren't patched or tampered with and they gave me 11 years worth of fun. Yeah the exploits, can throw a wrench in people's gameplan but why cry for patches at evey turn when something new is found? It's really gotten annoying at this point There are things that will be found that will change the game, we know this from the start with every new game, it's a part of how the community develops, people should just leave it be. (Not coming at you directly, I'm just adressing my issue)

as stated many times before me.. ITS POSSIBLE ON REGULAR PADS.. this includes you PS3 fanboys.. its not the stick's fault.. stop being so quick to cry 'ban' when something you dont understand comes about.. this IS capcom's problem.. i almost wish they hadnt uploaded this video because now ppl cant stop crying.. in fact i wish i had a camera so i could record the same thing being done on a pad.. then people can just cry "no moar padz ban plzz".. seriously, someone should do that, and get it posted here.. so ppl can stfu

@61

No offense taken, and I also miss the days when I didn't see pages of demands for patches and updates and other features (points to the days when you had to enter a code to get a different Ken color). I was just offering that as a scenario in that they don't really NEED to patch the game.

The community can never be satisfied. We demand games yesterday, then complain when there are problems with it - often demanding patches. It's not always Capcom's fault that there are problems with the game. Sure they could have waited a few months and released it with fewer problems, but then they'd have to deal with "the fans" blowing up their sites with complaints that it's taking too long.

unfair advantage if you ask me, but its only on mvc3 and only on the 360, so we need a patch not a ban

correction: my original post should say "I'm by far NOT a great..." sorry for the error. ;)

Swear you guys cry too much. You guys think you could actually do this while in a match with a pad? Holding back while your other hand holds forward? What can you do when they rush in and you can't advance block? Eventually I will adapt to your play style and just walk up and grab you. Learn how to play before you bash on something because there's always a flaw

If people are silly enough to think they can win just by blocking in both directions, teach them a lesson - just get in there and throw 'em.

Overreactions aplenty here in the comments thread!

Let's see how many people got things wrong.

1) Bunch of console war tards chiming in. WRONG. If this were a problem with the console it would happen in other games such as SSF4. This is specific to MVC3 and as such is purely an issue for Capcom to resolve.

2) "Not worth Capcom patching." WRONG. Nobody has so far mentioned the effect this could have on the online portion of MVC3. While not everybody cares about online, some people do - and if it is proven to be abusable offline, then it will be abusable online. Capcom also need to take this into account.

3) Anyone could make a stickless stick. Not only that but how's the following for an example:-

I have a regular SE stick for 360. I literally *never* use the two buttons on the far right, so I didn't even bother swapping them out for proper buttons. Now it would be the work of a few minutes for me to open it up and re-solder those buttons in such a way that they function as left and right. Now, if I see a crossup coming, all I have to do is hold those two buttons to block it. And on top of that I still have my regular stick.

So while there is definitely an issue, I feel that banning stickless sticks is not the correct way to proceed. The game needs patching, simple as that.

@48

are you dumb or just trolling?

you don't have to guess left of right. it's only a 50/50 mixup rather than a 25/25/25/25.

If you press down, back, forward at the same time does it make you block any attacks from all directions in MvC3? Just curious.

@ DiegoUmejuarez's first comment
that's Captain America's Back story
He use to be a whimp then he juiced up and now he's CAPTAIN AMERICA

SSF4, LEFT prioritize over RIGHT; and UP prioritize over DOWN.

If you hold LEFT and RIGHT, you get LEFT only;
If you hold UP and DOWN, you get UP only;

If you hold all four buttons, you get LEFT/UP. No problem in SSF4