Capcom is internally discussing the idea of keeping the Street Fighter 4 series going, after being prompted by fan requests for additional updates.Will you continue to do Street Fighter 4 updates? — Slashy
Svensson: There's nothing currently under way, but the repeated requests for "more" is prompting some discussion between Yoshinori Ono, Seth Killian, Michael P. and I.
What's the release date for Europe?
Svensson: I believe the target SSFIV:AE PC release date for Europe is July 8th. For NALA it is July 5th, just a few days earlier.
I hope I can play the PC version without the DVD because I hate swapping discs. — Daniel
Svensson: There's no DVD disc check, just FYI.
What's going on with the retail version of SSF4 AE on the PC?
Svensson: It was going to be distributed by one of our PC distributors exclusively but at the 11th hour (last week) they've opted not to carry it in the US. My sales team is exploring new options for physical distribution in the US but it's likely to be even more limited than it was going to be.
That said, I'll see about getting some in the Capcom store.
I can imagine the people in the US not getting the DVDs this will harm sales... I preorder in Europe. — Daniel
Svensson: You have to understand that the retail environment for PC games is completely different in the US from Europe. We're much further ahead digitally and retail has continually been declining on PC here (while remaining fairly strong still in Europe).
Apples and Oranges really.
It likely won't affect my forecast either way.
Trying to make physical happen is really more of a customer convenience issue for this market and this product specifically.
I read somewhere that Wal-Mart sold out of vanilla SF4 when it came out on the PC.
Svensson: Unfortunately, Wal-mart did not sell out. They returned the goods that didn't sell to us (thus making them "out of stock"). I still have some in our warehouse. :/
And I'd price protected goods at BBY and Target on SFIV all the way down to $9.99 eventually. That said, digital outsold physical in the US by a factor of 4X, even at those lower prices.
Is it true that DLC from vanilla SF4 on the PC won't carry over to AE?
Svensson: Unfortunately, as I've stated before, DLC from SFIV PC does not carry over to AE PC. And yes, the issue was technical unfortunately. We've changed the DLC structure in AE and it's different than it was in SFIV (better value).
Will there be another Mad Catz bundle with the retail release of PC SSF4 AE?
Svensson: [...] We have no plans for a stick or pad bundle on AE. As it is we have a very limited physical release in North America.
Ono's philosophy of "making one character overpowered in competitive games is good" is ridiculous and flies in the face of decades of video gaming. Get someone else to 'rebalance' it, please.
Uh oh the Capcom store for a fighting game release!?
Ih8MadCatz
I read somewhere that Wal-Mart sold out of vanilla SF4 when it came out on the PC.
Svensson: Unfortunately, Wal-mart did not sell out. They returned the goods that didn't sell to us (thus making them "out of stock"). I still have some in our warehouse. :/
LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL
that happens when somebody wants to play "back-ups" games...
It's gonna be MvC3 Sentinel all over again. First scream OP at the top of your lungs. Then you get what you ask for and they nerf the sh!t out of them, after which you'll cry again that it was premature and "they nerfed them too much!".
Some guys in this community seriously need to figure the f**k out what it is they want, because no matter what, they complain.
Another option is to just go back playing Smash Bros or whatever and leave this game, that they obviously don't like, alone. And hopefully they'll also stay off this site. Seriously, the whining is getting old fast.
They need to BUFF every freaking character to the extreme. Go out with a bang, add a third Ultra for every character. Make every Ultra usable in match. Reduce charge time for all charge characters. Make normals, specials and supers cancelable into Ultras.
Why not go out with a bang?
>I'll just be here with the titans, basking in silence bodying scrub yuns.
Nobody cares if you're "bodying scrub Yuns" on Xbox Live. In AE competitive play it's going to be Yun, Yang, or Fei or you're putting yourself at a disadvantage. This also happens to be really boring to spectate. At least 3S had more skill and depth which made up for its limited roster of viable fighters.
Ignoring the drooling troll #8.
I have a feeling we'll get 2 more characters as excuse for a DLC fix. Unless the patch is free !
Let's get the facts straight I'm not here whining but the fact is that they made the twins too strong in comparison with other characters. Just the palm in counter hit must be like 15% of life and that's way to much damage.
Anyway you are telling me that they didn't make the characters that strong on purpose right?
"-EX Rekka's recovery is modified, with the hit and block advantage greatly changed
-1st hit: +2 on hit, +0 on block (improved from -4/-8)
-2nd hit: +0 on hit, -1 on block (improved from -6/-10)"
I mean seriously? look at that changing -8 to +0. This is just an example why somethings are a little bit stronger then the rest of the cast. To be honest if they do indeed patch I would like for them to just reduce some damage on the twins and change the frame data in fei long LEAVE THE REST ALONE!
I never argued that they made the twins very powerful. OP? I'm not so sure, or let me put it this way, are they so powerful they should be banned? I don't think so.
That is my opinion, that's all.
Capcom themselves have said they made the twins very strong, but I never got the impression that they meant unbeatable.
So far various tournaments have shown mixed results, with Yun dominating some, and others where other characters win as well. Should those results be ignored, because we should just accept and continue the mantra: "Yun is so OP OMG Capcom what have you done?"
If Yun is OP,like some have said because of extensive professional play by pros in Japan the last seven months, why not accept the other "nugget of truth" these same pro players have shared with the world that Fei Long is stronger than either of the twins? Why not cry foul here? Shouldn't the strongest character in the game (according to the japanese guys) be nerfed?
For the rest, I can accept (and enjoy) AE for what it is, even though I don't main the twins, and if they do decide to rebalance, I will adjust accordingly. Something a lot of the guys here should try for a change.
It's an evil circle, the top tier will always get complaints. Some ppl don't rest until the whole game is broken in a whole new level.
Btw SSF4AE tournament is up at dreamhack now. Stream is here http://www.dreamhack.tv/
to many idiots on here... its like some of you dont want a balance fighting game.. its ur money paying for this, at least get a working product.. THATS TOURNAMENT READY..
capcom is going in a bad direction.. never thought they would do character specific for consoles in sfxt.. with ultra easy mode combos..
Chill guys, as one of the capcom guys said: "It's working as intended"
Which is have some people request for a rebalance so they release a new street fighter 4.
"Working as intended" is my favorite line. The brilliance of it! Nobody knows what the intention was :-D
Didn't Mike Ross beat Justin Wong with the nerfed Honda?
(And continued to kick ass through CEO?)
Just saying...
SSF4 is a great game. While there were people who complained and some characters were better than others, it wasn't so obvious who the best character was. I'm still not sure who the best character in SSF4 is and whoever it is was not at a substantial advantage over a such a large part of the cast.
As a whole, I have really enjoyed SF4 and would like to see it go out with one more great update with great balance like SSF4 and of course some more characters.
People can complain about nerfs/buffs (I don't like Hakan's buffs one bit. Not enough) but it's kinda genius.
If anything, Ono loves SFIV more than we give him credit. He masterminded AE to give us more content and now he's masterminding constant feedback about balance and character slots so when he goes back to Capcom they have to say, "Ok, ONE MORE and that's it."
Give the man some credit, he's taking SFIV to the rafters.
@2
LMAO if youve ever even touched a different SF game you would see how hard those are. theres no whining about broken/OP characters in those games. you adapt and thats it. you should be thankful you have SSF4:AE which to date is the most balanced SF game yet.
I feel that Rose got blown up :(
I finally start maining a character and now she's nothing like she was. I still use her though. I do think that SSF4 was very balanced. It would be great if they keep updating the SF4 series until they come out with a new series.
rebalance with new character dlc= capcom rich and everybody happy with r.mika xD (cuz ono say a lot of times that name)
this game is balanced only problem is yun and fei (well he is harder to use than yun) yang in other hand is no that good,
so some minor nerfs to they and thats all, no need to make them low tiers, only slighly nerfed.
The awesome thing about this article is that they are actually considering keeping sf4 going with updates. Listening to the sf fans. At-least you know the game is going to continue to grow one way or another. Mvc3 on the other hand you don't hear anything, and its been out longer than ssf4ae. The fans been crying about all kind of updates for this game. It may be another 10 years with how silent capcom are about mvc3. Be grateful that you can change with the game rather than not having any updates at all.
The sentinel nerf in Mvc3 was correct. Now you don't see sentinel 100% of the time on every team. Only the people with actual skill use sentinel. It's not like he's a useless character. Still powerful, just can't throw out moves and not worry about being punished anymore.
Im sick and tired of these continuos updates, this have to stop, enough is enough. If this keeps up there'll never be a final product, is making me to be sick of this game. People should realize by now that Capcom will never provide a truly balanced fighting game, is part of their demented, retarded philosophy.
I am sitting here reading about more possible updates of a game that already have received at least 3 of them, while at the same time they completely forsaken MVC3. We still waiting for news about DLC characters, or the rest of the costumes. Yet we get nothing.
i dont think invincibility on wakeup of an already top tier character is working as intended, at least i hope not. i agree the only tweaks i can see that are needed are to the 4 new characters to the game, id be fine with the rest of the cast staying as is tbh (cept maybe guile's U2 :/).
@ricefarmer so I don't agree with you, that makes me an idiot?
There have been many imbalanced games in the past. For example, SFII Turbo Akuma was banned from tournaments, so was he in HDR and rightfully so, and I personally feel that it's not that bad with Yun. 3rd Strike's Gil was banned from many tournaments too, because he is considered broken.
As far as imbalanced fighting games go, AE is by far not the worst.
If you're going to make an issue of Yun, then Fei should be addressed too, then again, not too many people play Fei.
All I am saying is that I can go without rebalancing for at least a year.
I don't understand why people don't want the game to updated? It's not a matter of skill, so don't be all "scrubs suck, whiners" cause that's not what I'm talking about.
The game is more fun when the roster is always fluctuating. Honda was top now he's not (Most nerfed in the game IMO). Yun is on top and next year, he won't be. Then somebody else.
If you can't have a 100 percent balanced game then at least we can keep the game going by giving as many characters a chance on top as possible. It's more fun to keep this series going then to let it die.
Let sf4 die already. Sfxtekken is coming and after that we need something all new(no more terrible sf4 models) so sf5 or maybe even sf alpha 4.
#39
Boss characters are made broken on purpose to be challenging in arcade mode, so they do not count in terms of balancing gameplay.
It seems like a game is considering balanced overall when there are no S-tier characters.
Though can someone tell me how Yun is better(?) than Yang? They are both considered S-tier, though I see Yun producing much better results.
I'd like to know how these discussions pan out.
Right now it seems to be something along the lines of.
Ono: They want more SF4. They want more characters and stages and re-balancing and costumes and new moves and new ultras. And they want to keep paying for it. They want us to have their money. This one game could continue to be profitable for years.
Suit: Hmmmmmmmmm... I don't know. Maybe.
Ono: Thanks for such a concrete response. That'll go down so well.
sethkillianfanboy. So much rage, so much hate, so much anger. It all can't be health over a computer game ha
The more updates the better, keeps things fresh and interesting. Don't want to see the twins nerf'd though :(
@Endgame I understand the concept of boss characters, however, if they are selectable characters (like Oni/E. Ryu), you will normally see them in tournaments. (Seth has never been banned IIRC).
It's not that AE is fully balanced, when you have characters with different movesets, you will always have certain imbalances.
If there is no S-tier, the guys at A-tier will be targets for the outcry of OP.
I think it was Svensson (not sure of the spelling) who said that right now Capcom has to be much more quiet about MVC3 than they want to be. I know it sucks to wait, but they haven't forgotten about the game guys. Something is coming :D.
In terms of AE..if they update I'd rather have them bring people up to or closer to the twins level instead of nerfing everyone down. Buffs to those who need it please Capcom! No nerfs to those that don't deserve it ;-;.
The very best thing they could have done is leave the characters alone, and alow you to use the SSF4 characters against the AE versions. Then we could really have the balance of Super with the twins at full power. No reason to nerf the twins, if they are going to be fighting Ryu, Rose, Guile, Cammy, Dhalsim and other strong SSF characters at full strength.
This is what a lot of people wanted in the first place... it's what people initially thought they were getting. They have done this in previous games; you know, give the PLAYER the option to play their way... just saying...
@50
I'm sorry, lamest idea ever. Talk about a $hitty game. Picking the version you want? Terrible.
@ Whoever said, there will never be a "Final Version." Uh... Yeah... That's kinda the idea! Why the Hell would Capcom want a "Final Version?"
After that brilliant move they can lock the doors and go out of business right?
Next year EA will give you the "Final Version" of Madden so it can be over for you. Lol.
The more games, the better for them. The more content, the better for us.
It's a symbiotic relationship. And I love it! Keep making SF, and I'll keep buying.
@50
that will prob be there "last" edition of sf4. Like ann edition sf2, allow u to pick from all the different verisons. That also means that u have sf4 ryu/sagat(trade dp into ultra yay) in the game aswell. In the end that would prob be the best/easiest thing they can do.
Like i said before, sf4 neeeds to die so capcom can crank out something all new.
There's an outside chance I may see Elena in SSF4 then, I'd like to buy AE but those new characters just don't interest me. Come on Capcom make it worth the purchase.
Awesome, great info. Just what I wanted to know. No pad/stick bundle - so Im gonna get digital copy anyway since I dont want to have to wait for a disc. Good to know there is no disc check crap I hate having to always have it in the drive for vanilla.
PC Super/AE is gonna rock.
Cant wait. FTW.
@2
Uhhhhh....SSF4 is what happened when the people who know what they are doing balanced the game, and it was the most balanced game capcom has ever made. Lots of character representation, quite a few characters could be top, everyone has a weakness, good balancing.
Then whiners who don't know what they are talking about complain about EVERYTHING, and its like capcom gave them what they asked for just to show them how stupid they are, and we have AE and not too many people think it's a better game.
I guess these kids won't be playing 3rd Strike. It's arcade perfect and no one is getting nerfed to make up for your lack of awareness and skills. SF4 is the easiest game in the series, don't be fooled.
Abel/Balrog/Akuma seem to beat the twins clean, they have disadvantaged match-ups as well as everyone else. There are always characters with "least" bad match-ups. Too early to be nerfing anyone, the game just came out. Try learning first.
If your character was buffed: AE is fine
If your character was nerfed: AE is dumb and unbalanced
Not that there's anything wrong with this, Capcom shouldn't have nerfed any existing characters.
Also @8, I don't see why a Smash fan would cry for patches seeing as Smash never had patches... ever.
@63
If you go by that logis, does majority rule? Because WAAAAAY more characters got nerfed than buffed, and the characters who got buffed still don't do any better than they did the last game(guy,thawk,hakan,juri,cody etc)
Infact, they probably do worst than they did last game since there was noone on feilong or yun/yangs level last game
@62 yea soo many people miss the chunli yun and ken options from like 12 years ago...why wouldnt everyone rush to play that online? *rolls eyes*
Know what I would want? Take all your characters and leave them be, just make me the Australia stage with the open fields of grass at night with lightning in the back and throw in the old Alpha 2 music with the bit of Sagat theme in it please.
Physical Disc will always be preferred with any real FG player. The same logic applies to owning a console that plays said FG. PC gamers will more or less complain about it but since I'm not a consumer of PC related goods, you could say I'm biased.
I still feel the same way as I did before regarding PC gamers. If you can afford a PC that can run SFIV/SSFIV at 60FPS consistently, you can afford the console, stick, and game at least 2 times over.
Generally speaking, people who own a PC that can run these specs already have 1 of the 2 systems to play SSFIV. I'm almost willing to bet on anything that some random pc gamer replies about something that's purely anesthetic and use "player modded costumes" as an example of why the pc release of SFIV/SSFIV is superior.
I guess that's enough of a reason if you want/prefer terrible players (worse than the scrubs on XBL/PSN). The reality is, there's too many complications and cons on a PC release versus the console.
To me, the PC ver is more hacked ver of the original. PC's should stick to MMO's and RTS's. As far as quality games go, it's all it's good at.
CAPCOM should just buff the heck out of every character. Make damage scaling like it was in vanilla, give Ryu back his single hit Fierce DP. Give Sagat back his ridiculous strength, reverse allthe damage nerfs on all the characters. Give Dic back his original vanilla RH kick and his short Scissors. Basically make every character as powerful as Yun and Fei and I'd be happy. Add a few more characters and stages and third Ultras. Make the last version over the top.
Posted by KMasters on June 19, 2011 at 10:08 a.m. #41
Strider...shutup....seriously.
^^^^^The type of fan that gladly open his @ss to take Capcom fat d!ck. They can milk this guy for eternity.
@ #64
"Way more characters got nerfed than got buffed"
SAYS WHO?
Has anyone actually bothered to go through the list of changes, and looked to see if WAAAAY more characters got nerfed, than buffed? I doubt it.
There are A LOT of buffs in AE. The problem is that no one gives a crap. It's way more fun to whine about nerfs. than it is to be happy about buffs.
OMG Seth got nerfed!
No, he didn't. He lost some stuff, and gained some very valuable stuff in return.
OMG Zangief got nerfed!
No, he didn't. He lost some stuff, and gained some very valuable stuff in return.
OMG Cammy got nerfed!
No, she didn't. She lost some stuff, and gained some very valuable stuff in return.
What about Guile, Honda, Rufus, and Rose? They only received nerfs!
Well, Hakan, Sakura, Makoto, Dudley, and Dee Jay only got buffs.
Stop acting like AE nerfed everyone to crap. Because it didn't.
@68
yea, makeing everyone as strong as possible(without being broken) would be nice for a change.
@72: That's exactly what I'm talking about! I'd rather damage levels be like World Warrior and matches ended fast. Every character should have at least three good set-ups/combos to Ultra. Even if that means giving certain characters a special or two that just cancel directly into Ultra.
BOTH (or all 3 if they add one more for everyone) Ultras should be usable in match so there are more options available to every character.
Kick the game speed up a notch.
Reduce charge time.
Basically, buff everyone and give all characters an easier way to gain meter.
@71
Yea seth just got sewwwwww much to make up for how they overall made him less effective right? Why didn't you actually list all the awesome buffs he got there cool guy?Good news for gief though, so jumping dhalsim arms seems like a fair change...until...
Zangief loses a guaranteed knockdown into a fierce mixup in exchange for an all or nothing style mixup that could leave him high and dry for the cost of a bar? yea....sure sounds valuable to anyone who doesn't actually play gief.
Cammy loses the cornerstone of her ENTIRE gameplan, but she loses some recovery frames to her normals so that's all good...since you hated cammy anyways since she forced you to learn about option selects and actually get better. Seww valuable. I lost count of how many cammys i saw in the tourney today
All those characters getting nothing but nerfs is ok because some characters got only buffs...and STILL can't compete anyways? Well, that makes sense.
@fawaz I don't know if it's the same people, but with MvC3 Sentinel, among the people who cried "Premature!" at the nerfs he got, there were several who had, days before even, called for Sentinel to be nerfed, and since this is the same community do you really think this is going to be much different?
Let's say Capcom does rebalance the game, then what? Everybody happy? I'm pretty sure there will be people whining again that their beloved character got the short end of stick, while others got (HUGE) buffs. You can't please everyone. If they weaken the bos characters, people complain, if they make easy controls, people complain, if they make the learning curve too steep, people complain.
@Timic83 Where did I say that Smash Bros players were screaming for patches? I just referenced Smash as an example of a game that might be a good alternative to those that don't like the "imbalanced AE" and choose to only b!tch and moan. I could have also said CoD, same difference, really.
It's all about who they SHOULD listen to. SSF4 was a fine game
Aluppoj I agree with you, if they make another SF4 I do hope they add more new stages or old stages from all the SF2 and SF3 series in 3D that would be awesome!! if those 2 remaining characters never be revealed I want Alex, Hugo, Urien, Sean, Rolento, Karin in as well.
@74 - well seth got some much needed health and stun as well as more dmg on u1 I believe.
gief can still kd with ex green hand on CH and ex green hand combined with spd and u2 is a awesome mixup.
cammy didn't lose tkcs.just use ex version prob solved and u have better normals.did ppl really use her super much anyways? now u gotta manage her meter better boohoo.she's still a good char.only scrubs feel that's all she had to offer.for the record, some chars had no answer for tkcs even WITH option selects but those chars don't matter right?
funny how most of the chars that only got nerfs were high or relatively high in ssf4s tier list.At that none of the nerfs were devastating to said chars gameplan.the only thing the nerfs did was make certain chars that can rack up easy wins have to work harder is all.like guile,he had some of the most braindead wins in super.or rose with a free wakeup momentum killer in u2,or rufus with a ultra that can suck up chars from half screen and be used as AA? too much utility considering his u1 is already really good. honda only got nerfs and mike ross took him to top 8.dudley can't compete?tell marn that.makoto can't compete? really? are u really saying that?wait a few months and see if that's still true.
@79
he got more health because he's not a threat that he once was anymore...it's the same principle as if they gave phoenix more health in exchange for taking away her core gameplan.
Good job mentioning the rarities that it knocks down and trying your best to ignore the fact that he no longer has his core gameplan as well. Gief and seth didn't do too badly compared to all the other characters that got brutalized however.
Yea cammy is so awesome now. You have to use meter to do something that she could do for free, wouldn't yun be awesome if he had to use meter for his divekick to be effective? Only scrubs want nerfs to characters that they could deal with if they only had a brain, that's why it was so hard to keep track of all the cammy players yesterday.
Funny how they have a disclaimer about the tier list before you even read it...it's because REAL scrubs go there and pretend that's the reason they lost. Guile STILL had most of his weaknesses that he had in vanilla, were you crying about him back then? he was still ultra vulnerable to crossups, still had bad punishment, still had high risk lowe reward combos...i could go on. Most significant thing he gained in super was 5 frame reduced charge time in addition to nerfs other characters got so that they needed to fight more than rely on ultra and super to win. If guile got braindead wins in super it's because bad players kept jumping in the air.
Characters that can compete high level in super are:Guile,bison,chun,honda,balrog,feilong,cammy,rufus,ryu,ken,viper,abel,zangief,adon,akuma, dudley,dhalsim,rose,sagat, seth,gouken...sometimes claw,juri etc...
Most of the characters who needed something..GOT BUFFS! So they could have left characters without significant nerfing and the game would have been even better! But give scrubs what they want right? Nerf blanka ball!
Oh wow i forgot ibuki was also really good, and el fuerte as well, and both we potentially horrible matchups for guile. Meanwhile in AE it's mostly yun/yang fei and zangief. Viper didn't get any nerfs so obviously she's better than most characters in the game.
Was marn using dudley yesterday when he needed to win? Makoto can compete...still a far cry away from the 20+ characters that could compete before a wave of scrubbery overtook the game, so i wonder why someone would argue?
@73
U dont need to reduce charge time. Its fine the way it is since alot of the charge moves have very special properties(only charge move that sucks is blanka ball).
More dmg i can dig, but if dmg is boosted Ultras must be droped out of the game. I never liked ultras to begin with but the whole ultra system it self hurts alot of characters since they cant combo into them and being able to combo into ultra has a big impact on the overall character. its kinda dumb when u think about it, there are characters that can easily combo into there ultra without meter(balrog,rufus comes to mind) but then theres alot of characters that either need some super difficult 1 frame link or cant combo into it at all. Imo the only solutions are to either let all characters just straight cancel into it like supers OR remove them from the game and reintroduce 3 lvl super meters(this would be my first choice).
@ madnessfamilyguile. 5 frame reduce charge time is a HUGE buff. Especially when sonic booms are ALWAYS safe. just another guile complaining now that his character sux. Deal with it, us sagats had to deal with it too. But i've figured that the only people who are complaining about ae are the ones who SUCK!
@82: I was advocating all charcacters being able to cancel something into Ultra if need be. I agree it's complete garbage that some characters can combo into Ultra fairly easily and some cannot.
Why not keep the Ultra Animations and make those the level three SUPERS and just create new level 2 supers for every character?
Ultras are fun to watch, but I agree that they don't balance certain characters, they actually do the opposite and help imbalance the game.
@83
...But sonic booms aren't always safe retard, otherwise he would have killed in vanilla as well instead of being like the worse character. He got nerfed worse than sagat...sagat atleast got angry scar and a new ultra, as well as having a damage nerf when you do TOO much damage ending in a situation thats better than getting a damage nerf when yu're already damage deficient.
You probably aren't very good at math, so here's another explanation you can probably understand. sagats damage nerf is like taking 5 away from 12. Guiles damage nerf is like taking 2 away from 5.
The only people complaining about AE are people intelligent enough to understand the changes(pretty much every pro). The only people who advocate nerfs, are the ones who suck.
@madnessfamilguile first of all I didn't resort to name callin. Second, jab sonic booms are always safe RETARD! Guile got nerfed worse than sagat...is this the biggest joke in the world? Angry scar is pointless becuase you can just do ex uppercut for more damage!
Sagat just didn't get damage reduction, he also received nerfs to his standing light kick which was probably the best poke in the entire game.
I can already get a hunch of who you are. Who compares the nerfs of sagat toanyone let alone guile?....WOW!
Let the crying begin.