Yoshinori Ono responded to a few members of the community that think Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition should be further rebalanced. Some of the things Ono says are... difficult to make out, but here are his remarks, regardless.
Will there be a patch to rebalance God Yun in SSF4AE. Please Ono, we beg you! — Ganem19
Ono: If can I have chance, I'll be continue tuning. ;)
I think we would all like annual rebalance of SSF4 Arcade Edition via DLC. — FletcherBentley
Ono: It's so fast. I can't get approval from official Capcom. ;D
Why do you need approval to fix a game you released with imbalance? — Bfire0
Ono: I don't have Research and Development cost (money)... ;(
The problem isn't that Yun/Yang are too good it's that most of the cast got nerfed too much from SF4 -> Super -> AE! — tempusrob.
Ono: I try to catch up some opinion because I think Tool is everyone's.
Mentioned by Laurieyuken and Phivers, via Twitter.
Well looks like theres a good chance Yun and Yang will be patched just like Sent was.
please rebalance this game. Twins palm strike are too godly for there own good. Man a regular palm strike cancelled my bisons ultra1, and my fuerte ultra 2. UNREAL!!!!!!! Its like a defensive/offensive attack in one. Hell even my eryus ultra 2 trying to chip my opponent. Also im starting to hate oni's ex crossover slash attack. Gets me all the time.
Desk - will decides what 2 patch like he did for mvc3
twins need to be fixed severely. I never seen such characters that gain so much meter in 10 to 15 seconds. And i thought guiles sonic boom meter gain was crazy in super. Dont think theres anything wrong with eryu. His projectiles are really fast. I think hes tournament worthy in my opinion. Havent touched oni yet.
@6 really so it cost them money to fix the Games on Demand problem a couple of weeks again please take your own advice smart one if that was the case they would have never patched Sentinel health Capcom is in to make money not spend it. God morons like you trying to act all smart its pathetic :Q
Well they should of balanced the game twins, oni and eryu included. I hope they dont charge us for a balance patch. Pretty much the same arcade game. Kinda stupid.Hell capcom even needs money to balance a game they sold like this on purpose. Kinda sucks @$$ if you ask me. They know the game needs balancing and they still sold it the same crappy way.
@Mark / Kshein
Are you guys delusional?
1. There is nothing wrong with patches. The world is patches. Every company has a twitter now made just to listen to customers bitch. And guess what? We, consumers, win because of this. Before online and twitter and forums if everybody collectively wanted something? Too bad so sad.
2. In this case, further DLC means maybe we could get the option to choose what version of each character. SFIV/Super/AE. Now THAT would be the way to go out.
It doesn't matter if patching costs them money or not. What Capcom needs more than money is a strong healthy relationship with the fan base. And honestly, it's the tournament scene that is driving these fighting games so it's up to Capcom to patch when needed.
a.) Palms have too much frame advantage on block and hit, and they can fake palms!
b.) Yun's rush punch and ex rush punch is just too ridiculous on block with him having the frame advantage...
c.) Yang's rekka punches being able to cancel out after 2 hits?! so much time for hit confirm!
d.) Dive kicks with different versions?! That's insane with so many opportunities to trick your opponent.
e.) Even their uppercuts, on whiff makes them fly away so far, you can't even punish it hard as you can do on Ryu where he's at point zero.
f.) TOO SHORT! those two twins are TOO SHORT/SMALL and they have advantage because normal longer combos whiff on them because of their small hitboxes.
g.)
h.)
i.)
j.)
FFS!!! I have a feeling that those 2 characters will be banned in the future unless patches come
Ofcourse the game needs balancing, thank the twins for that. If your not whining then your not a true fighting game fan. People are already playing godlike with the twins. Even there combos are not that hard to pull off. IL still use eryu, fuerte and bison. The twins are purposely godlike, thats just wrong capcom.
The only character untouched is cvip. Shes still looking good. And probably juri.
they wont balace it. Why? because then they have to balance all arcade cabinets. As far as i know, they cant update cabinets, but release new ones, thats a lot of money, your all stupid if you think this is going to be patched. Marvel 3 sentinel health got patched cuz guess what, its only on console and can be fixed! DEAL WITH THE TWINS AND SHUT UP, AFTER THEM BEING USED SO MUCH, LEARN TO ADAPT. No i dont play twins, im a gouken main.
Oni's EX Cross-slash is VERY punishable all the way through, since it has zero invencibility. There's not really a problem with that one, I think.
The twins, at least Yun, should be rebalanced, though. Just a little. I still can learn how to deal with them just the way they are, but, c'mon. Some of their moves and their recovery time are just ridiculous.
When i played.vs eryu and oni i lost consitently..but when i learned their moves and strategies i easily defeated.them.i main adon btw..to patch the twins is sad knowing that they are not OP(overpowered) they patched akuma in sf2 hd remix ..but he was still too good. To patched the twins would be sad because people dont know the matchup. Mike ross beat both twins easily with honda...they have bad matchups
Ono
1. Buff Guile the way you had him in Super SF4 and have Seth Jumping Hard Punch with his arms like Dhalsim again, these nerfs were unneccsary
2. Please get to the bottom of this
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2010/no...
reveal who this is
3. Why doesn't Yun, Yang, Evil Ryu and Oni have rival cutscenes?
sinisterslam, shut the f__k up!!!!!! Everyones having issues with the twkns. Just patch the console versions, f__k the arcades. Or patch both, but the game should of hsd more better balancing. U DUCKSAUCE!!!!!!
People decided to hate Yun and Yang before they even played AE. Crying and crying non stop about imbalance of a game they never even played. Tier lists are made considering the highest level of play. Im sure the percentage of people crying about balance that have actually played Daigo/Kazunoko is less than 1%. The top players from Japan have agreed that Fei Long is the best character anyway. So where is the angry mob with torches and pitchforks for Fei Long? Besides... we just got 4 new characters. Who is gonna care about new characters if they get nerfed into oblivion like Sagat did in super? Sure Daigo won Revelations. He also won both Evos since sf4 came out. Meanwhile on the other side of the country... Justin Wong, Floe, and Marn lose to low tier, nerfed Honda using the OMG SO BROKEN TWINS.
I can see all the godly yuns and yangs pouring out of every crack without having any trouble playing with them or even doing there b&b combos. This is a dark day for all of us.
@27
Like your post. Spot on. The sheer number of people crying the f--k over the twins is just plain appaling. I think that Ono should seriously consider IGNORING American players. I'm a white-American, but I can't help but be repulsed by the fact that so many people in this country are acting like little kids.
The game's barely been out for one F--Kin week!!! And people are crying like the world's going to end tomorrow.
yea but feis not easy to play with, simpleton. Also honda has to rely on whether moves he gots. Thats understandable. You dont see honda gaining meter like crazy by whiffing orochi throws???
@25
Oh right. Make the American soldier be the one on top, and make him as he was in SSF4 (a game where many characters could do little to nothing about his cheap sonic-boom game).
This comment was just plainly stupid. There have been A LOT of posters here who have tried to blatantly deny the fact that there's A LOT of racist and nationalistic bias amongst the players in the community. Racism and Nationalism being two big factors why Guile got little to no hate for the long time that he's been OP in SSF4, and how a lot of American players started hating on Yun and Yang before they even played the game themselves.
Yun is pretty annoying. His block stuns on specials prevents you from punishing. The standing mp, hp, palm push combo is so good that you can spam that all day and not get punished. Finally, the palm move alone has TOP priority over other specials in the game. If you lucky to trade, bravo! I managed to beat my opponent like 7-4 with my dudley at the end but I had to work for it haha. It was frustrating and fun at the same time. However, Yun is not, per say, broken. He's very hard to deal with just like getting through Fei's pokes (cr. mp and hp and rekkas). I think Yun needs a little nerf...maybe just on the block stuns and damage on his specials. Damage output on his normals are fine in my opinion.
Ofcourse yun/yang mainers are not gonna complain. Its just us that have to fight against them and seeing all the crappy idiot stuff they can do. Even most of there moves are safe on block, then added to there fast gaining palm meter gain and there pretty solid normals and special moves. There combos are pretty easy ro pull off as well. Also a command grab, i see why daigo gave up on ryu. Tier whore for life, i still have the upmost respect for him. Come on people wake up.
@10
Yes, you idiot.
Fixing things is not free. If you had any knowledge at all on how a business works you'd know nothing is free and mistakes DO cost money to fix.
You have to spend money to make money.
Once again, logic and reason is absent in the comment section.
patch smatch patch the twins patch sentinel patch phoenix cabbage patch jesus christ you don't even have to leave the house and pay money to have you ass kicked anymore what more do you want?
Easiest thing they can do is to just add the twins to super 4 and balance from there. There was no reason for like 99% of the nerfs to the super cast.
Im just glad i didnt buy it.
The game feels nerfed for the twins imo. If they give ryu his super trap Ill forgive Capcom...or if they give dudley some invincibility on his DP Ill b thankful. Th twins have so much offense and they're so quick its hard to hurt a good yun. My Thirdstrike friends kill me and they hat Street fighter 4
@#25:
Obviously, your skills is not that good if you can't win without Seth's jumping hp (if you are winning, you won't bitching about it here). Watch that Korean Seth player and learn how he plays it. He's doing well without the arms. Why can't you? Ever since Seth lost his arms, there are NO scrubby ass online Seth players anymore. You know why? it's because they can't do seth's simple cr. lp, lp, mp, into hyakuretsukyaku (his legs special move). All they relied on were his jump hp, do sonic booms, and wall jumps with rh. It repeats itself for the entire match. Those seth will obviously lose to me and I kicked them for being a trolling scrub. Now in AE, I don't have to do that anymore. oh btw, if you are crying and bitching about Seth's nerfs, do us a favor and stay on reg SSFIV with the rest of the babies. You guys can battle each other's seth and see who can troll out your opponent the fastest with jump back hp, sonic booms and then wall jump rh routine.
I agree that yun/yang got tools that can fend off the whole cast. Sucks for the nerfed characters having trouble against them. We just gotta thug it out and keep on adjusting. Meter gain is gonna be a problem tho. Everyone said the yung/yang were godlike before the console release was even out. Now that its here, its pretty much the same thing console players are b!tching about like the arcade players were saying. Go figure!!!!!!
I agree with a lot of people that AE has some bad balance issues. However, to those that think Super was "balanced" that's just incorrect. So many of the low tiers weren't low tier JUST because they were under represented, it's because they were bad. Characters like Guy, Makoto, Gen, Hakan, etc NEEDED buffs. (only one of those characters became really good anyway >.>). I think the strong characters should have been left strong, and the weak characters should have been made stronger so that they had a fair shot at winning. more than 2-8, 3-7 etc. And yes, there were really good players with all those characters in SSFIV....but they weren't winning MAJORS with those tournament. The best we got was JWong winning a few smaller tournies with Makoto, still impressive but in SSFIV he wouldn't have pulled her out against Daigo, for example. No way in hell.
@34
I think Daigo said he will switch to Yun from Ryu before Yun even came out.
definitely the twins need to be fixed and patched asap!
some characters buffs and nerfs are just alright except for guile, cammy, and abel! (imo)
so far im really enjoying playing makoto, its almost like 3S with all of her buffs, and definitely i can matchup and win against scrubby twin players!
I think hakans a true tourney competitor now, even makoto. Im having mixed feelings on guy tho. Cvip and juri are still beasts in this game.
We can go round in circles all day with people complaining about the twins and people complaining about the people complaining about the twins, but all Ono really needs to look at is one thing;
We paid.
We all knew this was coming. Capcom had given us a list of changes and all the big names were saying the twins were way too good.
And we still paid for AE.
More characters, we'll pay. More re-balancing, we'll pay. More stages, costumes and any other improvements you can implement. We'll pay.
Why? Until SF5 is out, we just wasn't SF4 to be as fun as possible.
And not all of us are into the idea of Street Fighter Tag Tournament.
yun/yang pretty much rotate around the whole cast. Its not even funny.
@48
LOL. Someone b-tching about the Twins while this person wants Guile to have his cheap sonic-boom zoning game back from SSF4.
He also wants Cammy's broken TKCS to be back.
#52, D@MN i think your right. ONO used me and butt rapped my wallet.... How could you ONO!!!!!! I trusted you. I think im gonna ge sick...... ;(
Hell it was only 15.00 bucks. Im satisfied, but not happy at all.
@52
thats the problem right there. We got more then enough warning, so complaining on the forums is pointless. If u really wanted to send capcom a message u should have NOT bought it.
@27 couldnt have said it better. and @#32 Shut the hell up you fuzzbag you're irritating. All you do is shout "racism" the top tiers are racist shut up and how the SF community is racist shut the hell up you damn idiot SHUT UP.
@51
Yes really. If you want unfair, then please revisit the SSF4 version of Guile with his instant Sonic-Boom recovery, extremly useful standing uppercut, versitile ultra, and the large range on his air throw.
Also if you want unfair, go use SSF4-Cammy and spam her TKCS. Just see the footages of Sako abusing Cammy TKCS on Uryo, Momochi, and Daigo.
Neither of the Twins were nearly as OP, Broken, and unfair as those two characters were.
Surprisingly, the genius who amde post #48 suggested that we give Guile and Cammy their unfair advantages back.
WOAH, can feel the heat on that post a mile away #58. Drink a brisk. Stay cool my friend.
@58
Tell that to all the Twin Haters before you come crying to me. There's nothing wrong with shouting out facts. I never said that ALL people in the SF community are racist, but I have been saying that many members do in fact hold strong biases that are rooted in racism and nationalism.
How bout I make a deal with you buddy. If those Twin haters ever STFU about Yun and Yang. Then I'll STFU about the obvious fact that racist and nationalistic bias is what's causing Yun and Yang to receive at least 100x time the amount of Hate that Guile and Cammy receive in SSF4 (Despite the fact that both Guile and Cammy had just as much or even more unfair advantages over the rest of the cast than the twins do in AE).
If the Twin Haters ever decide to stop b-tching about Yun and Yang, then I'll consider to stop bringing up the obvious fact that racist and nationalistic bias exist amongst many of the players.
D@MN you #48, wish i can kick you in the nuts. But its so not likely. Still i think the twins are too godlike for there own good.
denaycous_dee85 you obviously suck at this game and shouldn't even be complaining. First learn how to play then complain. Every single one of yun's specials is negative on block except for EX lunge. The reason you aren't winning at this game has nothing to do with the twins and everything to do with you being an idiot.
RandomJohn: thanks for the really ignorant comments. The blockstun on all of yuns specials allows him to be punished. Try out the training room, you might actually learn something.
Guys, every time you lose -> which is obviously A LOT -> write down who you lost to, then send an email to Capcom or whine here, and attempt to have the character removed from the game.
#63 I think you might be a rasist. Thats sad for real.. I love me some black booty, white flat @$$ES are preferable as well. And should i say anything about my lovely latinas out there. Your @$$ES are the best.
@45, Bushinryuken, Jwong did pull out Makoto against Gamerbee and Momochi in the finals. So you can change your BS comment to "yes way in hell" that he would use them against top foreign players. You really know your stuff.
What 8-2 matchups are you referring to in your comment there?
To all the little crybabies: Do any of you use the twins? Post some replays of you guys just running over everyone on xbox live. lol...like that will ever happen.
11, yes 11, hard nerfs, I am sorry - but someone lost control of something during that process.
Give Guile his balls back, he sincerely misses being a man and doing damage.
@65
"RandomJohn: thanks for the really ignorant comments. The blockstun on all of yuns specials allows him to be punished. Try out the training room, you might actually learn something."
Hey man, I wanted to ask if you know of any other forums which give out raw data for Yun's specials on block. I also saw RandomJohn's comments on post #33, where he said that Yun's normals are safe on block. Such a comment also struck me as being informed because I'm pretty sure that the only Yun special that is un-punishable on block is his EX-Lung and jab-shoulder. All other specials entail risks.
I recall seeing a list containing raw frame data of Yun's specials a while back but just can't locate it anymore.
Nice nerfguile, i play the twins. Who you tryna impress fool. Your definitely a twin mainer. Shut your @$$ up. I didnt ask for your opinions 8!@TCH!!!!!!
#42
It's funny how you say that there no longer are scrubby seth players online, when there's hardly any Seth player AT ALL...
What you're saying is basically that unless you're Poongko, a player who are at the same caliber as Mago; second to only Daigo and Kazunoko in Japan, you have no right to complain? lmfao..
Seth undoubtedly (and undeservedly) got nerfed into the deep pits of low tier, only above Hakan, Dan, T-hawk and the like. This is emperically supported by the arcadia rankings in Japan. Hiropon dropped Seth and it looks like Poongko is about to do the same, guess why? yeah, because Seth sucks.
True, J.fp wasn't the best "go-to" move in all matchups; some would even argue that it's a blessing in disguise since it'd get you into a lot of trouble, considering how easy it is to punish it's hittable box. BUT, J.FP was also a complete necessity to zone turtlers like Guile and Sagat out.
They also nerfed both his ultras. U1 can no longer punish most projectiles unless at full screen and U2 is officially useless since any invincible reversal beats it clean. Remember, Seth ultras are among the weakest in the game (despite U1 dmg buff) already.
On top of that, Seth no longer stuns as easily as before because they heavily reduced the stun on magic feet. Dive kicks only deal about as much block stun as a jab, and no longer stuffs flashkicks. Hitboxes got messed up so j.s shenanigans off of a cr.f don't work on some characters... And while I'm at it, let's not forget the stomp nerfs, which I think is safe to say has shaped up to be his biggest nerf by far.
What did Seth gain in return? +50 life and +150 stun is pretty nice, I admit that, but the fact of the matter is he still has the lowest HP value in the game, below that of Akuma, who unlike Seth doesn't have a slow ass walk speed, mediocre-horrible normals and mixups that doesn't heavily rely on a high risk setup such as SPD, which if being neutral jumped, results in losing 75% of your life bar.
None of the other buffs noted on the dev blog are worth mentioning because they are either not noticeable or a straight up lie.
@27
very good post, one of the few good ones i have seen here. i dont have a big problem with the game as it is right now and even though it is not as balanced as super it is not broken. thankfully they didnt give the "downback" characters such a great edge this time.
imho i dont mind (and maybe even encourage) if they would patch rebalance but that would mean nerfing fei long as well because i realy do not understand why everybody is crying over the twins while fei is the top. but rebalancing would mean rebalancing all the arcade cabinets as well or else capcom would seriously hurt themselves, either splitting the community or losing a lot of arcade income. also what would then be the tournament standard?
i think the most import thing right now is: everybody should just see the new chars, fei long and the game for what they are: just a load of fun =)
You dont wanna see my fuerte or bison. IL be on xbox soon nerfguile,
@67
EventsHubs tiers charts don't list any matchups as 8-2, but there have been players who felt that certain matchups are actually worse than 7-3.
Some players felt that certain characters are just dead in water against Guile because they just don't have anything to deal with Guile's istant SB recovery combined with an extremely useful standing uppercut plus the flshkick. Some players felt that M.Bison (Dictator) is one of the characters who can't do anything against a good Guile, especially one the professional level. Some players have commented on how they beleive that Fei Long is also another character who can't do anything against a good Guile, and these people use the Canada Cup Grand Finals: Daigo (Guile) Vs Mago (Fei-Long) as a reference for their take on the match-up. Daigo just all the sudden switched to Guile and owned Mago's Fei Long (Mago's Fei looked helpless against Daigo's Guile in the Canada Cup Finals).
In addition to that. Many people also feel that Cammy's TKCS gives her 8-2 match-ups against other characters who have no legitimate tools to deal with her instant dive-kick pressure. Ex: Sako's abuse of Cammy TKCS during the Godsgarden 2 tournament against Momochi, Uryo, and Daigo a while back does give validity to people who feel that some SSF4 matchups were 8-2 in Cammy's favor due to the TKCS.
A fact that I've tried to repeat over and over again is that neither of the Twins have that great of an unfair advantage in AE. Yet people were complaining about them before they've even played AE. lol.
I think capcom does this on purpose. They make the game in balanced and then it gives them reason to go and charge more money to keep updating the same game a billion times over. They admittedly made the game unbalanced and then say they will look into patching in if enough fans say so (or if sales are good enough. I am tired of them releasing half finished products on purpose.
denaycous_dee85 since you play the twins and you are also the biggest complainer in this entire comments section, why not start a youtube channel that shows you running over everyone with the twins? Maybe then you wouldn't seem like such a complete retard, and there might actually be some validity to your complaints. For now, you just seem like a big crybaby, rage quit type of player. I bet you have a disconnect rate of 25%.
From what i have experienced, yang is actually harder to fight against. Neither twin seems overly strong either.
@NerfGuile - I didn't say Momochi or Gamerbee, I said Daigo. I made that rather clear in my comment. Also, it was *only* Gamerbee. What you're referring to was Seasons Beatings where Jwong tried multiple counter picks against Gamerbee and lost again. I do know what I'm talking about. Also, that wasn't the grand finals. JWong did it as a desperate gamble that only won him one game....it actually just kinda proves my point even further :\. He didn't win the tournament with her, so there's nothing you can prove there.
Also, in regards to some of those matchups. I was using approximations for Guy vs just about any charge character in SSFIV original, just to clarify.
IDIOT your comments dont phase me. Im losing only because of my eryu. Dont think you can outsmart me and guess what i actually do in games. Nerfguile do me a favor and stuff a (O(K in it fagbag. You ll see me soon!!!!! If you dont think the twins are godlike you should end yourself right where your posting on eventhubs. SERIOUSLY!!!!!
There heavily offensive, and its hard to punish certain whiffed special moves with certain characters.
@Bushinryuken, no it was against momochi too. Go and look it up on youtube please! It was the winners finals... I guess it doesn't prove your point further - or at all for that matter.
So you think that he would use makoto against momochi and gamerbee but not daigo? lol, so you're being clear about something that never did and never will happen except for in you mind (now that super is done with). I guess that fits with the entire comments section.
You also wrote "for example", well momochi and gamerbee are examples of top foreign players. The bottom line is justin will use a "low tier" character in a big situation because he thinks he can win with the character. He obviously didn't feel the matchup was completely hopeless or he wouldn't have chosen the character.
In the USA there are S-Tier Characters. RUFUS and SIM. They pretty much win every single tournament that foreigners don't show up to.
im obviously not the only one complaining. im no godlike player but im no slouch.
BUFF GEN! lol Capcom better at least patch these recently posted glitches, its starting to look like the guys behind MvC3 did AE DLC.
denaycous_dee85 you seem like the type that like to really think things out. I have to commend you on that. Seems like you really spent some time in training mode and thought out your statements. I guess the posted frame data is useless and wrong. You must have found some hidden characteristics with yun that make all his special moves safe. Good Work!
The SF4 world has been waiting for you to get out there and steam roll everyone with your insane twins prowess. Since they're so "broken, godlike and you can learn all their combos in 2 days", you should be up and running in no time. I know i can't wait to see you mashing away on your youtube videos. I'm sure you'll be taking home that money at EVO this year, using those overpowered twins; fuerte; bison; and of course E.Ryu! Good luck, and be sure to post how you make all of your moves safe on block!
I do not like just patching the game over and over. There will be stronger characters over the rest of the cast always.
In Super, players won matches that were at their disadvantage constantly. Many of the most popular fighters had characters that stood out. I think playerbase gets a bit too spoiled.
@63 uhhh yeah that makes no sense. People hate the twins right now because they're both VERY strong and people haven't adapted to them yet. Its like that with any fighting game, people hate the top tiers It has NOTHING to do with the fact that they are asian. People hated on rufus when he was top and abel when he was top so your little racism theories are wacked out. How about this STFU and play with whoever you use and body scubs thats all you gotta do.
@92
"people hate the top tiers It has NOTHING to do with the fact that they are asian."
BS. Neither Rufus nor Abel as characters received nearly as much hate as the Twins are getting right now. Can you please provide evidence that Rufus or Abel ever got as much hate as Yun or Yang??? Because I can't recall any at all. People did hate on Justin Wong, a player who used Rufus, but that's a little different than hating the character itself.
BTW, before you start blabbling on how my racism "theories" are wacked, why don't you try to dissect my argument first. In post #63, I clearly gave explicit mentioning of Cammy and Guile being favored due to the nature of the characters (Cammy being a special agent for the mother country of united states and Guile being an American soldier).
@92
"It has NOTHING to do with the fact that they are asian."
Oh yes it does. Many of the more racially and nationalistically biased SF-players are not content with the fact that 3 Chinese characters are now going to be top-tier. They want the top-tier positions to belong to their precious American Soldier (Guile) and the British Agent (Cammy). The more racially and nationalistically biased players get offended when they see that Guile and Cammy are losing their toptierness to 3 chinese guys.
So with that being said. If those Twin haters ever STFU about Yun and Yang. Then I'll STFU about the obvious fact that racist and nationalistic bias is what's causing Yun and Yang to receive at least 100x time the amount of Hate that Guile and Cammy receive in SSF4 (Despite the fact that both Guile and Cammy had just as much or even more unfair advantages over the rest of the cast than the twins do in AE).
@92
Now I'm I saying that ALL SF players are racially and nationalistically biased??? No, I'm not. I'm I saying that ALL players who don't like Yun are racially and nationalistically biased??? No, I'm not.
The point I've been trying to get across is that racism and nationalism are clearly two factors for why Yun is getting at least 100x more hate than usual. Now that's a little different fromsaying that ALL SF players are racist, or that ALL Yun haters are racist.
wow this is going out of control!
if the twins are that OP'd and cant be nerfd and patched, why not bring back vanilla sagat, cammy tkcs, (super)adon wakeup recovery, feilong safe chickenwing, abel vanilla damage, guile vanilla/super sonicbooms, akuma HK loop, or much better... unblockable ultra setups for some certain characters! , or even much greater... make everyone OP'd and broken! this game will be so much fun and fckn' great! :D
@95 Man, that's one of the stupidest things I've read on Eventscrubs. First off, Cammy's British, not American. More importantly, your conspiracy theory about them being Asian is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. This is hardly the place to have an identity crisis about subconscious racism.
Anyway, I don't see why people are complaining so much. It's not Capcom's job to rebalance the game after it's been out 2 weeks because some guy beat you online. Not to mention tier lists are designed exclusively around high-level play and are constantly changing as new things are discovered. The percentage of the player base they'd apply to who are complaining about the game's balance has to be well under a percent.
LISTEN TO ME IF YOU CAN READ MY MESSAGE CAPCOM
LISTEN HERE:
Some one make my message heard please
RYU IS TOO NERFED only reason why ryu is up the tier list is because daigo uses him
MAKE RYU BACK TO HIS VANILLA version and DO NOT NERF HIM
ENHANCE RYU
and MAKE E RYU HAVE BETTER STAMINA!!
If you work at Capcom, please ignore these comments.
@ Fireinthehole
And you base this so called racist and nationalistic bias on what exactly? Speculation?
Remember the old tier list in which Chun-Li and Honda were both sitting comfortably at the top? They didn't recieve nearly as much hate as twins (Yun specifically) do now, despite them both being asians and turtling DB-characters to boot. The reason? Because neither of the two were as much OP as Yun.
Another testament to this fact is that Guiles and Cammys (and Hondas and Chuns for that matter) didn't exactly tore up the tournament scene to begin with.
Your arguments are closely reminiscent to those of an online troll but I can't be sure if it's just that or if you need to get out of your little group of nazi friends.
Scrub: Wow, Seth dominated that set, he must be better than we thought, we just need to practice hard enough and learn from Poonkgo.
Same scrub: Huh, Daigo destroyed a set with Yun? Well it's Daigo, no normal player can make Yun that deadly.
I don't understand the hypocrisy.
As a Chun mainer, I'm not happy with how Capcom tried to rebalance things from Super to AE. It seems the people there are just clueless as to what they need to do. DF+lk was buffed in Super and now, it's been nerfed incredibly to the point that trades no longer allow Chun to follow up with ex legs, headstomps or Ultra. A lot of you may have already seen the newly "nerfed-even-more" Ultra 1 which causes the camera to zoom out of the move's cinematic after an opponent has been launched into the air and starts getting hit by aerial sbks. This "so-called" fix has caused characters like Rose to fall out of Hosenka after a hit-confirm and gives them frame advantage enough to punish Chun after she descends. And now, we have the infamous palm strike to deal with concerning the twins. Ridiculous meter gain, extremely high priority, good damage, nullifies projectiles, stuffs jump-ins and ultras, extremely long active frames. And the advert on AE said further rebalancing... Right..
@ fireinthehole... The complaints about Yun/Yang are likely unwarranted in my honest opinion, at least this early in the console release.
But race? Nah, that has nothing to do with it.
The twins and Fei have powerful tools and are top tier. "Top tier" characters are always on everyone's ****list in every fighting game, even in the so-called more "balanced" games.
Hell, Guile wasn't exactly "liked" in Super by *anyone*, American or otherwise. And furthermore, he was likely nerfed again *because* Americans (amongst others of course) asked for it.
I think if there were to be a patch...it would be around Disc release for AE...in which case, it probably exists already and could easily be put in to the game if and when needed.
Personally as a Guile player...I haven't noticed the nerfs.
I'm still happy he got buffs from Vanilla!!!
I mean...I've been rocking Guile since Vanilla...
...and I'll admit...with the amount of time I've put in I can say this with certainty...
GUILE IS EASY TO USE...HE'S JUST HARD TO WIN WITH.
I feel that everyone...EVERYONE who wants to get good at this game really need to put some serious time into this game to find out...figure out...what works and what doesn't work against the twins instead of just giving in to the accusations that they are O.P.
You'd have to be pretty delusional to believe that race is a factor for the hatred on Yun/Yang/Fei. A certain extent of "hatred" for top-tier has always been the case in the previous installments of SF4, or for any fighting game really. It is only more apparent now because of the expanded SF4 community, that and the fact that AE delivered some arbitrary balance changes that majority of the players would not agree with.
As far as I'm concerned, I don't really have much of a problem with Yun/Yang/Fei, but more so on the odd character balance changes implemented. But in online communities, haters gon' hate, trolls are gonna troll, and whiners are always gonna whine.
"The problem isn't that Yun/Yang are too good it's that most of the cast got nerfed too much from SF4 -> Super -> AE! — tempusrob."
Amen, someone has sense.
Leave the game alone, its fine how it is. The End
I just think people are skipping the fact that they are strong because some characters are weaker than then were in super due to nerfs. That being said if you are passionate about your main you will find ways around matches and work with your changes rather than moan about them.
@113: I agree
Lately, I've stopped reading Capcom's news when it's coming from Ono. I thought that maybe this time he won t be such a troll but I guess I overestimated him...
I 've had enough of his way of half answering to people's question and his constant pathetic troll-teasing.
Seth and Svensson both really look more professional. "I can't answer that question" is so much more better than "maybe yes, maybe no trolololo :) "
@14 thats the dlc i want and also that was the speculation from the begining i really would like that option
Don't see how ono is a troll. I mean we've got guys smart enough to act as if buffs regarding race of characters is an intelligent discussion...
Don't see why alot of people bother with this version of the game. Anyone with any sense knows the games balance sucks in comparison with super..so why not just stick with super?
Is this the genius that causes these same people to go out and buy a brand new version of whatever product they already have, that's worse in every way?
"lol omg but itz new!!"
Yun and Yang arnt a big problem(atm). I would rather Capcom make these changes ...
- Zangief n T.Hawk's command grabs
- Add recovery frames to Hawks wifted condor dive
- Reduce the damn hitbox on the lariat!!!!
- Cody's overall damage output
- Increase recovery on Guiles sonic boom
- Basically NERF ALL FIREBALLS, there boring as hell
Wow... just... .. wow.
If you guys spent half as much time practicing, as you do posting silly comments, you wouldn't have these issues.
Yun and Yang are very good. They are by no means overpowered.
They are very beatable characters, so long as you're not using some absolute trash character.
AE is a game that demands you use a good character if you want to be successful. I can understand people being upset with how Capcom unnecessarily nerfed a lot of characters.... but the answer to that isn't to cry for more characters to be nerfed. The answer is to just pick a better character. They're in the game.
And LOL @ the guy that plays Bison, complaining about the twins. Bison fights the twins better than almost anybody. Get off eventhubs, and go figure out the match.
People whine so much these days... and what's with all the Yang hate, when he's clearly not on the same level as Yun... and Fei is better, anyway.
And you guys are whining about XBL/PSN Yun anyway... come on... there aren't any good ones yet.. outside of a couple of people, that could beat you down without them anyway.
More recovery on condor dive....?
Yea..this article wouldn't exist if capcom hadn't already been listening to guys like this.T-hawk is just sewwww good that he DEFINITELY needs a nerf on that move to give the slow guys a chance, same with sonic boom since most people with no sense jump constantly and should be rewarded.
right you wanted ssf ae ono gave you it now deal with it japan are ok with it in the arcade so why cant you learn how to beat them sick and tired of all these patches
@DeadlyMoves:
That's the worst list of proposed changes I've ever seen.
Anyway, Yang seems fine to me so far. Fei is good, but it's not like he's much better than before. Yun seems to be the problem from what I can see. Yun seems to have it too easy - the opponent gets forced into guessing games way too easily and any wrong guess is far too easy to punish with a huge combo. He also builds meter way too quickly (so does Yang but he can't abuse his Super as easily and his EX moves still require thought to use properly). So far I don't have a problem with any of THEM online (believe it or not, Oni is the one who's been giving me trouble), but I can see the way that other characters that I don't use seem to stand no chance in hell. That's not fun, and if those characters are now useless, then I have to wonder why Capcom put them in in the first place. T. Hawk gets ignored absymally by Capcom, Eventhubs and... EVERYONE, really. It's like he's not really in the game at all.
A perfect example of requests getting out of hand is #119's post...those requests are ludicrous.
@124
so your happy to see easy scrubby tactics do well? Sorry but Gief is still rediculas. High HP, high damage output and overpowered scrub friendly moves. Also being able to spam a command grab while condor diving, just incase it wiffs is just silly IMO.
the only one that was questionable was nerfing codys damage output.
The only people that dont want fireball nerfs are the people that overuse them ;)Fireballs are boring and lazy IMO
Why is everyone complaining about Fei Long in AE when his basically the same with a few small buffs to frame advantage etc from Super? He still plays the same so why are you all complaining? It's not like he wasn't good in super, every since Mago started showing how good Fei Long is everyone has been crying over him when he was exactly the same before Mago used him.
mago has been using him since super @ 127
I main guile the sonic boom meter gain hasnt really bothered my style of play, i dont rely on super to win matches as long as i have two ex for safe flash kick which isnt to hard to build. my biggest problem was the ultra two nerf i spent so much time learning flash kick fadc into ultra two just to get shagged, especially when you look at how little fuerte got his ultra two nerfed in comparison. i will still use it though, i feel with ultra one i look for the ultra too much costing me to much health where as i can land the second ultra from a simple cr medium punch f/kick for some easy but small damage and its better than nothing IMO.
for a character with only two moves to begin with i think nerfing both is kinda crazy i do think he needed a damage nerf but not a castration.
I dont care for the twins and their "over powered" ways street fighter has always had its stand out top tiers. but i think the tier list should reflect the game more and characters, strong characters should be strong. Bison (dictator) should be one of the best, its his character profile to be strong..same with guile, ryu, sagat and so on..
but the twins dont they work in a kitchen? it doesnt seem on the same level as running shadaloo.
that is all...
#120 summed it up completely & correctly. Listen to how silly most of you sound. It's embarrassing. :'(
@ WinstonChurchill
No, 120 is not correct. His advice is to pick a better character. Is that what we all should do? Drop our character and pick one of the Hong Kong crew. That would be just great. Why don't we ask Capcom to remove all other characters.
I miss the days before patches for all genres of games. Where people got something new and played it for pure love of the game, without constant complaining because they just enjoyed something new.
Of course certain aspects were frustrating, but it was all the more reason to adapt and improve your gameplay, which made the game more fun. If you are a true gamer who enjoys competition, then you should adjust your game where it is needed and learn why you are losing. Not run to forums and put all your time into complaining.
I'm pretty sure people were pissed thinking we may not even get AE on console, and we had a very long wait. Now it is here and not even a month into the game people want it changed before truly adapting to it. If/when it is changed there will just be more complaints and another group of people who want more changes...
@#132
In terms of
"If you guys spent half as much time practicing, as you do posting silly comments, you wouldn't have these issues."
"people whine so much these days... and what's with all the Yang hate, when he's clearly not on the same level as Yun... and Fei is better, anyway."
"And you guys are whining about XBL/PSN Yun anyway... come on... there aren't any good ones yet.. outside of a couple of people, that could beat you down without them anyway."
"
Yun and Yang are overpowered, you can't argue with that, but they are by no means broken.
People carelessly throwing out the word broken. Think of broken as if it was a broken toy - it is unplayable, it is an unfixable problem.
Yun and Yang are not good to the point where we have to ban them or have an emergency patch. (It is not like an emergency banlist, if you are a video game player).
In the next reiteration, if they nerf everyone else, and keep Yun and Yang the same, there is a problem; but for right now, they are fine.
It WOULD be nice if they patched them; but at this point, it is unnecessary.
My Super Street Fighter IV: Arcade Edition brings all the 3rd Strike fans to the yard and they're like, "LEVEL UP YOUR GAME", "TRY HARDER", "STOP WHINING", "TIER LISTS DON'T MEAN ANYTHING".
Capcom is working on SfxT and will let Sf4 die out.
If Sf4 is still a good balanced game by the time SFxT comes out the players will be split meaning less profits.
@THE_GODDAMN_MASTER
you miss the recently... "drop you character and pick a better one" is like "the old school" just dont want to evolve, they say its natural to see only 5 characters in tornaments and fight against those 85% of the time online, people here who say they are not problem is cuz:
a) they pick yun or...
b) they use a high tier character (gief, bison, fei, sagat, rog, etc) or...
c) they just suck in this game and have no idea what hell are they talking.
pd. I dont want to drop my nerfed vega to go with fei or yun, thats the most stupid answer I ever hear, along with... this game have just one week when its a perfect port of the arcade who have his months from release
In my own opinion I think that Yun and Yang are not overpowered, its just that the game is new and they were intentionally given many tools. Remember Sagat was OP in vanilla but how many majors did Sagat players win?
In truth in 6 months the Yun virus will be done for, even if there is no new patch (which there will be for console) then we have to learn to adapt.
till then I stay with Gen, Rog, Vega and Fei.
@11 mark_morrison
I agree, it has become a bad trend!
--
How about trying to find legit tactics/strategies to use against the twins? AE has been released for one and a half weeks...so you guys should first
try to adjust and find strategies against the twins! Don't get me wrong, thy are really strong (so is Fei Long...but noone seems to complain about him), but they're not broken.
There was an interview with old school player Kuroppi awhile back where he was talking about that subject:
"I think most of the "soft ban" complaints that have arose recently is just a product of the online mentality
that a lot of new school players have today because old school players never really complained loudly about that.
IMO, these types of players don't want to take their lumps and figure out how to beat the top tier characters and give up too easy and yell for a ban."
He summed it up quite well, IMO!
@ #127 so true lol.
I remember the times back in HD REMIX, vanilla and super people used to always say "Nice Fei long" "Its always nice to see a Fei" and stuff like that.
Yeah....haters go suck a d!ck and die!!!
Oh yeah lets see u whiners pick Yang and try to dominate with his low damage output.
Oh...wait till 3rd strike comes out and see how many ppl say 3S is broken! parries are broken!! all my moves are pointless if my opponent can just parry them! They need to rebalance the game and make it easier to combo!!
@144: Soft bans and overpowered characters are two completely different subjects.
Also, by that logic, ST Akuma should never have been banned in Japan, where fighting games are MUCH more popular than even here in the States...
Nobody is saying YY are unbeatable, it's that they have more advantages than disadvantages, more safe than unsafe set ups, and way more options than the majority of the cast. Nobody is going to automatically win at the select screen with them, but nobody is really impressed when they win and nobody is satisfied when they beat them-(excuse: it was a scrub player anyways)
LMFAO. I just got up and started reading all this whining about the twins. First off talking about the ""twins"" as both being cheap is ridiculous. Yun is way better than Yang and is easier to play. Still both have punishable moves. People are just not used to the twins yet.
But the really funny part of this is people complaining only for their character like that Seth whiner saying Seth isn't as good as he used to be. A game isn't about YOUR character. If you wanna talk about balancing a game then stop thinking about yourself and be objective. Like that Chun player saying df+short is crap now. NEWS FLASH buddy!!!!! Chun is still good.
Tell me Gen, Vega , Fuerte or all other bottom characters need some love fine. Tell me they should try to balance the game by boosting low tier characters but stop just whining about the twins. Yun is pretty strong i do agree but not beatable and Yang is really good but not anything special. If you think that the twins are so Godlike its simply because your not good enough.
There will always be better characters than others in a fighting game so stop acting like 13 year olds damn.
@ SAMURAI :
You're from Belgium too, right? (Limburg I thought?)
Me too.. a couple of buddies & I are trying to create a small SF community, I'd like to have a word with you in that regard.
Is there any way I can contact you?
Email/MSN/Private message on some board?
Or you can contact me on MSN & email: dial_m_for_moguai@yahoo.com
WAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!! I CAN'T BEAT THE TWINS SO NERF THEM!! WAAAAAAH!!!!! - Eventhubs comments in a nutshell
I'm going to crack open a beer and have a laugh at all these comments later on.
#155
Exactly my thoughts. Everybody wants those twins to be nerfed. I don't usually do scrub talks but from what I'm reading, those who are whining really sound like scrubs. Sounds like you guys needed a little violin.
All i have to say is too many scrubs are whining just because of Yun and "his god like, to palm thrusting, to 10-15 secs of special meter gain" what happened with the balance of the game, everything is fine, stop complaining its not all about you, Yun isn't a god, its the way you play the character you choose to main and up your skill with, (jeez i sound like my brother) and since there are people who think he should be nerfed, you are wrong ive been using yun against my brother and there is nothing "godlike" about him, if your just going to continue complaining, get off your butt and find something else to do
Ono please give us Demonic Yun & Satanic Yang to combat these broken twins. I suggest you give them
1. 1500hp
2. +10 on block on all normals and specials
3. No damage scaling on all combos.
Maybe then will we be able to beat these overpowered twins.
lol.
You guys are such little whiners. I mean seriously, If its not because of race, its because they are O.P. or your character got nerfed. no game is perfect, you cried about sentinel and he got nerfed, your crying about the twins and want them nerfed, yet if your Guile or Vega was S-tier you would not complain right?
Every game needs a villain, I mean everyone hates Lebron, yet NBA ratings were up, right?. Its good for the game, it forces you to become better and choose a better character. I mean seriously you are the player, not Guile or Vega or Ryu. (unless you cosplay while your playing..??)
My super main got nerfed so I chose another character as a main in a.e. and a twin as a secondary.
So sit there in your Vega pajamas and look yourself in the mirror and question your life, do you want to commit to your character and die, or get better and possibly make a change and win.
TWIN LOVE!!!!!!
I've already explained this, but...
Society is patched. Twitter exists for company's to improve products. Online companies change things all the time to keep customers. By everyone's defense here Google Docs should have never been patched and we all should have learned to "overcome" and find ways to make it do everything we want it to do without help from Google.
Nobody here is saying they want Vega patched, or Gief. They are saying the same things that they said about Sentinel, "Hey Capcom, you'll sell this game longer and make more money if you address these blatant issues that make the game less fun to play."
Capcom would be idiots to listen to all the "adapt and overcome" players because it flies directly against the grain they are harvesting with Capcom Unity, their new iPhone division and the entire electronic business. If this was something like, "Blanka's ball isn't fast enough," they wouldn't care, but it's not like that at all. High tier characters turn the game into a boring same/same game and make less people likely to continue playing for the years Cap could continue to sell it.
I think that the twins dont need to get nerfed i think that all other chacters need buffs ..When ae came out the first character i picked was yun because i like his style and how he locked because im a huge cap fan lol but guys i dont think that yun is OP when i fight with yun against ryu or ken sagat its very hard to win because they do everytime a shoryuken and if they get you 3 times then yuns health is 50 % away ...it really hard to win with yun against some charackter ...
Reading so many posts about people saying it comes down to a stupid list to say if you can win or not in SF...it's people like that that only will play with the people nesting on top of this stupid list and never try to actually play a game with "Low Tier" characters and then build up a nice technical game to make up for the priority and such...gotta play smart, can't be a scrub and win with Rose or Dan, but it's still possible to win.
I'm a Cammy player, losing the tigerknee without using bar was a hit but I adapted somewhat, that wasn't an issue. It's just the entire community before AE whining "Cammy's Tigerknee building meter is bull" yada yada yada, now she's lost it and the Twin's version is SO MUCH BETTER THAN CAMMY COULD OF EVER HAD. Oni and ERyu are free all day, doesn't help that 9/10 people are scrubs and depend on target combos and spamming specials, but still it's possible. Twins are bad, it's magnified Cammy by 1000 or more...I'm gonna try out Ibuki but I'm still gonna main Cammy, regardless of what happens.
Oh and real quick...arcade machines ARE NOT RUN OFF SOLID BOARDS ANYMORE, sheesh, it's not hard to push out an update to a machine that is on the stats grid, and if without being on the grid you can apply an update by issuing the patch to owners, it's easy, I've had to work on this Taito machines in the past, they're more luck a common computer or console than ever before.
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You know what's funny. People don't know $hit.
1) People saying "Ono can't speak". This was NOT an interview you TROLLS! this is a montage of random Twitter account messages. And... Suprise!... English is NOT his first language!
2) Cry till the cows come home, because even if Capcom came in and nerfed the twins right now, most of you would still be terrible at this game!
3) It was insane for people to be screaming "Re-Balance" before they ever played the game! It's just as bad one week in!
I just don't get it. Could you people really be that bad?
I swear to God on this statement....
I've probably played 50 twins since the game came out... I'm 100% against Yang and have only lost Twice to Yun!
When I play them I can tell that they are strong. But if you know their moves and set ups they are just as easy to beat as any other character in the game!
Jesus, I find a confusing Dan or Hakan player to be more of a challenge than the twins!
Without giving a laundry list, let's just say that I'm a good player, that puts TIME into LEARNING these Match Ups.
I suggest you guys get OFF of Eventhubs comment section and do the same.
Sad.
@169: So basically, because you went online and beat fifty people, the twins aren't overpowered.
@ 48 the cammy nerf isnt that bad. the height restriction on the CS makes it easier to combo off of, as long as the CS doesnt hit the opponent in the head. the instant cs was only useful if you stunned the person, or they were left wide open. im a little disappointed about the change to juri's projectile and how its a knock down because it knocks out half of her good combos. but i will be cool to discover new combos with her.
@ 50 what do you mean the twins are free for cammy?
@93 the people loved cammy and guile because they were awesome. i chose cammy because she fun to play with. if your theory was true why doesnt every team in mvc3 include captain america? get that racist conspiracy theory ish outta here.
"2) Cry till the cows come home, because even if Capcom came in and nerfed the twins right now, most of you would still be terrible at this game!"
LOOOL
Capcom just make the game how you see fit because one thing I've realised is that you're never going to be able to keep everyone happy.
@173: I don't think anyone here is calling the twins unbeatable.
Overpowered? Yes.
Two of the best characters in the game? Yes.
But just because he beat fifty people online in the first week of release doesn't make them any less absurd.
im gonna leave this here http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/512
but seriously, the kung fu team need some serious nerfing
in an ideal world, they should reduce the meter build on palms and change the frame adv. for yuns EX lunge punch . That would make the game a lot fairer in respect to the twins. They wouldnt be half as scary if they lost that big advantage. The way people are reacting you would swear their lives are on the line here. As many more have said before me, get into training, learn ur combos, form a gameplan, learn the matchups ( train with other characters helps) and apply this knowledge to creating an even better gameplan. Of course the twins are overpowered, same goes for a few others, but not nearly as much as people exaggerate. There is so much meta game in ssf4 that it means there is much more room for gameplay beyonw the abilities of individual characters, dont forget that. I dont main yun or yang, im a ken player and always have been, but i do enjoy having them in this game because they add a cool flavour to the game with their flashy combos and colourful supers. give us more!!!!!!!!!!
@174
everyone was happy with super street fighter 4, the game was incredibly balanced, if anything a few characters needed some buffs. but now some matches are insultingly unfair, no amount of skill can help you against an op character if the player on the other side has the same skills, at the end of the day the gap between characters does make a difference.
@175 So if you guys get this nerf that means you'd shut up about the twins? Or would you move on to the next strong characters?
@181
Everyone was not happy with SSFIV. A lot of people complained that the pace of the fighting was too slow and that the game encouraged an extremely turtle-ly style of play. People also didn't like characters like Guile and Honda, who could principally just sit there, hold down-back, and pretty much win the match due to the lack of recovery on a lot of there moves.
Those are just some of the complaints from Super. I personally didn't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with AE. But WinstonChurchill is right, Capcom is never going to please everyone with anything they do, so they should just make games that they believe in and hope for the best. Because people are always going to complain about something.
@FlawlessMatador
There shouldn't be any strong characters.
We should be able to play between SFIV/Super/AE balance changes. Add a couple characters and stages and you have my money next year Cap.
@#181
Even with all the twins whine, look at the hype when they lose i.e. Mike Ross beating Wong and Marn, it creates a healthy buzz \ excitement. Regardless of skill, character, etc people will always find something that they're unhappy about
Over the next couple of months everyone will have discovered the tools to beat the twins, its only been two weeks, jeeeeeeeez.
I'm a Vega player, so I should be the one most pissed off about AE, the changes and the new characters. But I'm not. I don't feel that the game is very imbalanced. I don't have problems with the twins. Hell, Fei Long is one of my/Vega's easiest match ups. I only have to work a little harder now to get a win, but I don't mind that so much.
@185: And the months the twins and Fei Long have been out in Japan suddenly never happened?
@184
You're totally right. I might be crazy, but I rather more stages than balance patches. 'Fixing' Gouki's and Gouken's theme for their real ones would help too.
About the twins, like I said, I don't mind if they're "overpowered", like Mike Ross, I'll just have to deal with the fact and learn how to kick their ass with my character. Not that I'm too good at kicking ass, but I try and learn.
@mrdofficer #165
with all due respect, your analogy is wrong. you are comparing google docs or software program bugs or faults to balance changes. I will be the first to say that if there are bugs or glitches in games like mvc3 that causes screen freeze on certain characters they should be addressed because it affects the gameplay and presentation.
you are right in one aspect, we are living in a generation that does does not want to "adapt and overcome". We live in the "now" generation, we use twitter and social media to cry and get spoon fed everything we demand.
You can't complain now because you know this was coming. You knew the twins and fei were the best characters in the game, that being known, half of you should have never downloaded the dlc. I bought mvc3 and still own it, played for a while but it was not my "cup of tea". however, to those that enjoy the game, more power to them. However its my personal opinion, I dont go on forums to bash and complain.
and what you say about capcom being idiots and not listening to all the players who want balance changes flying in the face of harvesting a community is wrong.
Should we harvest a salty community that wants to complain and demand. Or harvest a community where players learn more and become better by learning to "adapt and overcome". (hey capcom, I can't do a piledriver, can u patch it and make it a qcf motion?)
its the saltiness of people such as yourself that will drive away new players and kill this fighting game scene. NOT the twins.
@184 There shouldn't be but there will be none the less. I get that you mean the gap shouldn't be so large but regardless there will be characters who outshine others.
What's wrong with strong characters anyway? MvC2 had crazy hype despite the gap between characters being huge along with Third Strike.
Tekken, BlazBlvue, DOA, Soul Calibur, MvC, and even SF2 have strong characters. Some of which Yun isn't really as bad as.
@#187
and the tons of vids of the fei & twins losing?
Capcom are pretty clever, in the sense that they also saying, learn other characters of the "THIRTY NINE" that we have provided. More than half the cast can deal with them gief, mak, gouki, fei, any grapper etc.
You're an intelligent guy, I'm sure you'll cope. I have.
Dear Capcom, I would like to be able to control the angle of Vega's U1 like Makoto(U1)/Gen(Oga) can; that way I don't have to worry about the knee lifting the opponent to high to the point of whiffing the rest of the animation.
Or they can replace the knee lift with a canceled EX Barcelone setup into U1, I can imagine the execution being similar to Guile's Flashkick cancel into Double Flash but in Vega's case it would cost a meter. Atleast then, I would have a guarante setup into U1 at the cost of a meter and DMG scaling.
People fear what they do not understand...
But, seriously. Leave the twins as is. Maybe buff some other characters sometime in the future. Seriously, WTF did they do to Guile?!
@ fireinthehole
I suppose you go on all forums and complain about top tiers are racist and use BS stats. You're obviously a troll. Stay free. (I can't believe I fed the trolls :P)
"Its good for the game, it forces you to become better and choose a better character."
This is the dumbest thing I have read in a while. Why should you have be forced to choose a better character? Why doesn't Capcom just remove characters from the game, then? It's the same thing essentially.
"Adapt and learn" is fine as long as they at least try to make a fair character, which they didn't do here. That's the issue.
AE actually made me lose interest in Sf4 sadly. I was playing it every week till this download. Oni is kind of fun at first glance. Can't figure out the gimmick to E RYU yet nor have I seen anyone using it making me go, "Wow I wished I could do that $h*t!".
Played Yun/Yang and jesus, atleast Feilong requires some real planning to play with.
I main Sim so not the best with pressure characters. I think I can face roll my buttons with Yun and KO people.
Too much... everything. Can't give 1 character EVERY best move out there with some low health as an excuse.
What the heck is up with their hit boxes? I can barely hit those 2.
@185
i agree, tools will apear against them but my main problem with the whole OP character thing is that they seriously hinder some other character chances, i mean seriously, if a character, even a good one, has a terrible match against one member of the kung fu team is automaticly screwed on tournaments, because lets face it, lots of people are going to be playing them. its like vanilla sagat x3
@#200
"and" was a mistake, what i meant was or.
and think about what you are saying? why should you have to be forced? no one is forcing you, capcom gives you 39 characters to choose from..if you want to live and die by your character its your choice, however dont cry when u lose because you main dan. (although i have lost to sick dans) and not because Dan is a better character, its because the other guy was a superior player.
Players change characters all the time, life is not fair...grow a pair.
I'm in the middle on this. I've seen first hand in Japanese arcades that there are only a handful of characters that ANYONE uses any more, Yun, Yang, Fei Long, Zangief, Oni, Dan, Dictator and Ibuki.
In six weeks since I've been living here, I've been to every arcade in Japan I could find that has an AE machine. BTW this new Gundam game seems to be the most popular thing since Vanilla came out. Not that many arcades in Japan even have AE and FYI Tekken is Dead.
I think it's blatantly obvious from Ono and Seth's own admissions that the game balance is wack. They are either covering up for a rushed game balance pretending it was intentional, or they took a gamble and it's not working.
I think they should leave the twins alone, leave Fei and Gief alone, get rid of ALL the nerfs to the rest of the cast, keep all the buffs they've dished out since vanilla and buff Dan more.
Why not just bring back Vanilla Ryu, Sagat and Dictator at this point? I'd rather a game with ALL the characters being ridiculous than just a few.
Allow both Ultras to be used in match as well, Ono could really mess the game up if he added canceling to Ultras. That would be some funny ish.
@201 It's kind of dumb to say you can beat people easily using the twins when I can set you up with some matches against people who you wouldn't be able to beat.
the Miami Heat are overpowered, no one can beat them, it's not fair! they are going to win it all...oh wait, the Mavs won, oh well.
and i live in Miami.
@203
yeah but its a bit too anoying when you have trained your low tier character to be good and being able to defend yourself against better character in the previous iteration and now comes yun and after 3 hours with it my friend (who has the same skill in the game as me) whipes the floor with me.
the only chances i have now its to surrender my character and pick some counter kung-fu one or come up with some anoying trick to beat them. either way is restrictive.
@208: I said every arcade in Japan that I could find that had an AE machine. Which means: Taito Station in Yokohama, Seven Islands in Yokohama, some old arcade right by the train station in Yokohama that had 8 machines, but one was broken and they are all set to best out of 5 rounds, where yes, I saw one Sim and one Claw player. The Taito Station in Shibuya and Akihabara and maybe one in Shinjuku but I don't think so.
I'm telling you the truth, Tekken is dead, AE is dying already and that stupid Gundam Battle game rules the day. Oh, and Blaze Blue is pretty popular.
I'm just telling you what I've seen. In six weeks. Sheesh.
@211
I played Honda in vanilla and I played rose in super (none of them top tier at the time), and I switched to ken because i felt he gave me a better chance against the twins. Ken is not god tier but he stands a chance against them. If you have skill it will translate to other characters. now if you just learned gimmicks with your character then it will not.
and Rose is still my favorite character but I like winning more.
I play Vega. I will until the end of time.
I HAVE NEVER complained about the twins. Most characters can jab or cr.HP them out of their divekicks. Although people prefer to whine instead on do thier homework.
Im annoyed that they nerfed Vega when he was all that great in the first place. it was stupid, and highly unecessary.
THREE TIMES FOR EMPHASIS-
1.MOST CHARACTERS CAN St.LP or Cr.HP THE TWINS OUT OF THEIR DIVE KICK. THE HURTBOX IS BIGGER THAN HITBOX. GO TO THE LAB.
2. ALL THE SHOTOS, BISON, BALROG, AND GUY CAN Cr.HP THE TWINS OUT OF THEIR DIVE KICK. THE HURTBOX IS BIGGER THAN HITBOX. GO TO THE LAB. THE WILL STOP USING IT AND BE WEAKENED FOR IT.
3. ALL THE SHOTOS AND THE REST OF THE CAST St.LP or St.LK THE TWINS OUT OF THEIR DIVE KICK, AND GET A FREE DASH MIXUP. THE HURTBOX IS BIGGER THAN HITBOX. GO TO THE LAB.
They don't know how to make a balanced game nor fix a busted one to be balanced. They don't know how to do it if MVC 2 and 3 are any indication..
For those who think it's easy to rebalance the game:
Just to be clear. It costs money to make changes to an already very complex game. Their research has to be technically sound and robust, and the proposal for changes must go through many many rounds before it is approved. A slight change here or there can affect the game in a massive way. The changes then have to be physically implemented into the game. And then there are rounds of game testing, bug fixing, more rebalancing.
This takes a dedicated team and it takes time. And it takes does take money, and approvals at senior levels.
Plus don't forget SSF4AE isn't the only thing that they are working on.
Also, most of the development stuff they show us is a couple of months behind where they really are.
Ono pretends he's thinking about something when he most likely started it 2 months ago.
On the patch argument. Life moves on. Arcades are dead Sorry - even Capcom wasn't going to release SSF4 in the arcades (in Japan!) because it didn't make financial sense, so they created ARCADE EDITION to give people the incentive to leave their home and their consoles. And it was a good way to promote the inevitable console release.
Patching/rebalancing makes sense for a game that has $10k pay outs at tournaments. It's great getting "respect" for being the best "Dan" or whatever because it's more difficult but it won't win you $10k. You won't be consistent enough. The odds, and the match ups are not in your favor.
And by the way SF2 was rebalanced with every release (5 editions) - they just didn't have "patches" in those days.
So I'm all for rebalancing to a point. I thought SSF4 was pretty good overall.
By the way. People who keep saying Daigo said he would switch to Yun before the game came out...c'mon? You don't think he knows just about everyone at Capcom? You don't think he gets a sneak peek or helps test the games? The guy has been Capcom's pin up for for over 10 years.
He was even wearing the MvC3 t-shirt at Evo....
I'm sure all you scrubs would kill daigo if he didn't use Yun.
Lets see, next time i talk to Capcom i'll let them know the new ideas:
Nerf Fireballs, they are still overpowered. We'll nerf them enough that they are unusable.
Yun is too strong because he has a divekick. Lets take away the divekick, give him 300 health, take away his palm, etc... Maybe we'll just remove him and yang from the game.
Give guile, ZERO recovery on his sonic booms!
Bring back seth's jumping fierce.
Make the reversal window 60 frames on wakeup, so you can mash out of every single attack.
Sounds like a great game!
@MysticBoudha
Never in my post did I mention that I was using Seth as a baseline for the overall balance. I was replying to a post saying Seth was not bad (which he is) and that he sees play (which he doesn't) as an example of how Capcom nerfs characters that aren't really that good or popular to begin with.
It's funny how you mention Vega, Fuerte and Gen as being bottom tier and therefore it's legimate to complain about those or whatever, when Seth at least compared to the first two above, see less representation at tournaments, which again is reflected in a lower position on the tierlist and arcadia rankings.
If you can't accept that fact that there are people have different opinions regarding the state of the game, then do yourself and everyone else a favour and don't post instead of insulting everyone while making yourself look like an ass.
good players learn the matchup
bad players complain about the matchup
You guys hate Yun now? Be happy he isn't like his 3s iteration. 3 easy steps to improve your game against Yun and Yang:
1) Learn to block and I do mean block not mash shoryu
2) Learn to footsie
3) Learn how to anti-air
If you do these three things you will do much better. Don't keep pressing buttons when they're pressuring you. You should take away easy dive kicks so they can't get in for free. If you keep them in the right range, they won't be able to effectively start their offense. Also, who the hell cares if they build meter by whiffing palms? Use that opportunity to close space.
Think of it this way-if you were playing a racing game with Civics and Integras and then a Lamborghini Diablo was put in, how would it affect it? If you were a good enough driver you'd be able to beat some, but if the Lamborghini racer was at least competent you'd be mighty hard pressed to win no matter how good you were with your Civic. Similar situation here w/ the YYs.
Anyone who actually thinks about how a corporation is run would probably reach similar conclusions RedMist. Unfortunately these guys are too busy questioning why they can't mash out of Yun and Yang pressure.
Perhaps all the people saying LEARN THE MATCHUP SCRUB and so forth have not read the news items in which Capcom employees directly admit that Yang and Yun were intentionally made superior to the other characters in disruption of the existing game balance.
I would advise these people to either 1. construct some kind of argument in which they hold that an intentionally unbalanced competitive game is somehow superior and post that instead or 2. find a different topic to post about, since the arguments they are currently posting were disproven before they started.
Superior does not mean broken. Unless Yun and Yang have 9-1, or 8-2 match-ups across the board and can actually break the damn game they are not worth all the complaining.
Why argue against nerfs? Is it just principle? Do you hate new players? Do you play that character? It seems that arguing against balance changes can only be self-serving.
And stop talking about twins as the problem. The problem is favoring any character, EVER. Like Ryu being able to land on his feet after a trade in Vanilla so he could Ultra. What? If you have 39 characters and 39 characters don't have a majority of their matches 50/50 then you just haven't done your job completely.
As I've said, I support yearly updates and a definitive version that let's you pick your favorite iteration between Vanilla/Super/AE. Even in ST, Capcom couldn't do patches and since they wanted to make sure they didn't "screw the pooch" with ST, they let you pick the regular Super version just to be sure. Capcom and Society love balance. AE was a rushed job for balance but not a malicious one. We will get new character, balance and stages in time.
@189
could you be anymore correct?
$hit kids these days, think they can run anything they want by complaining and bitching. you guys should learn some discipline. nothing is easy in life. the faster you learn that the better. (God im afraid of heights, can you change that?)
all of you that are taking the time to curse and swear at one another and at Capcom, the very Corp. that gave you this game, for a video game, are really pathetic. hell even im doing it and im trying to stop myself but i think its gone to far. adapt and learn. simple. quit crying. especially you denaycous_dee85. ive seen like 10 of your posts crying and saying stupid things like
"if your not whining then your not a true fighting fan?"
are you seriously that stupid??? (k, not gonna feed that troll).
thank God 3rd Strike OE is coming. at least the elitists in that community dont bitch like you morons. and the elitists that do bitch at YOU scrubs who are bitching and complaining about the stupidest things, deserve it and more power to them. one more piece of advice to you morons. go play 3rd Strike at a local arcade or something. play a very good Yun/Yang and when your done, come back to AE and thank Capcom for not making that version of them in AE.
and read my name. im not a Yun/Yang user. been a Bison player for life.
@227
every character has potential in AE. no matter what there is a chance you can beat a Fei (yes i said Fei because hes the strongest in AE) with Hakan or Dan. as for what your comparing. Lamborghini to a ****ing Civic. are you serious. thats like comparing a puppy to a lion. a 3 year-old driving a Lamborghini can beat anyone with a Civic lol. unless the Civic has been suped-up (idk how to spell that word
#126 is exactly why the whining of many here shouldn't be listened to. Did you really, REALLY just say Gief is ridiculous?
Come on man. Be real for a second. Gief has a very hard time getting in (as he should, it's part of the cost/reward playstyle of grapplers), and as of AE, partially due to the green hand nerf he doesn't have nearly as easy of a time setting up cross-ups.
But you want him nerfed.
My bad, you want Gief AND T.Hawk nerfed. In fact, you want MORE recovery on Condor Dive whiffs. Ridiculous.
ANYWAY... Reading through this massive wall of comments, I realize how silly I looked when talking about MvC3's balance in the beginning (particularly, Sentinel). It wasn't until months later that I realized that I just really suck at the game and didn't enjoy it as much as I thought I would. It had nothing to do with the game's balance, and everything to do with me not playing smart nor putting in the time or the effort to get better.
I'm by no means godlike in AE... but if my whack-*** can deal with the twins, I don't see how no one else can.
Also, I get what HAV was saying as well. He's not saying that you HAVE to pick a better character, but if you're so butthurt by whatever nerfs your current character has that you don't even want to try to figure out what to do to get around them, there are 38 other characters in the game. Try one. They don't bite.
I main Rose, and have since late in Vanilla. When I switched over to arcade stick, I finally picked up Juri as well. When AE dropped, Rose got one very apparent nerf (which I'm slowly but surely adjusting to - I'm quickly reminded when I do a stupid wake-up U2 and get stuffed), and Juri got quite a few buffs. I've been learning how to work with both and I'm not dropping either.
And yes, I picked up Yang because I played the hell out of him in 2I and 3S, and like the character (although I still suck with him right now - hey, it's been like four years since I played 3S).
@232 what does stages have to do with your argument? (though I'd like more)
Why argue for nerfs? Why not argue in favor of buffs?
Also, count me as one of those that wasn't completely happy with Super (although I loved it). Too defensive. I've noticed a lot more offense in AE in the small amount of time I've played it, and I'm loving it.
OF course, a lot of that has to due with me being a KOF and Tekken player for so long.
@232 - "If you have 39 characters and 39 characters don't have a majority of their matches 50/50 then you just haven't done your job completely."
That's a silly ideal. Unless you're going to make a ton of characters extremely similar, that's just not going to happen. Someone is going to have a lot of advantages; someone is going to suck hard.
You should go into any and every fighting game knowing that already.
Hell, that's not even a fighting game exclusive thing. That's... anything competitive. You can either pick the best option for the solid chance of the win, or the worst option for the most challenge, or the option you like for specific advantages while being very aware of the disadvantages.
@236 Careful saying you play Yang around these parts since it's not possible to use a strong character because you like them.
I don't know why I even bother reading these. Honestly, what kind of person complains about a game needing to be rebalanced based around 1 (or 2) characters after the game's been out for 2 weeks?
Every top player except Daigo put Yun and Yang in the same tier and most of them put Fei in a tier above either of the twins. Yet everyone cries about Yun because he's played more online or because Daigo does well with him.
Hell, I'm sure random mid-low tier cast members received unnecessary nerfs, but it's not like anyone's forcing you to play the newer version of the game. Unless you want to do nothing but cry about how your character isn't as good as some other character in this version of the game.
@Flawless and others.
I'm not arguing for nerfs OR buffs (though illiterate trolls continually misinterpret my posts).
My point is that nothing is ever finished these days. Updates are something that neither old school, nor new school, players should have to fight against OR for, because they are inevitable. Updates/Patches/Changes are constants in our society now. Nothing is a finalized release as long as people care/use the product; to which this thread's length proves that SFIV is still popular and, thus, will have more updates and changes.
I brought up GDocs not because it had bugs (as someone thought) but because it didn't have a lot of features that it does today. It didn't even look the same, but people use it and Google supports it and it gets better and better. To me, SFIV and, in a way, all fighting games going forward will strive for. To say games before weren't like that and players had to overcome misses the point. Players today are, on average, stronger players than fighting games have ever had. The scene is young. I'M older than this scene. By a lot.
Fighting games have proven to have longevity and companies will do a better job supporting the scene then they ever have because it IS profitable to do so. Calling out people as "new" or "kids" shows that you are not able to adapt, the exact sin you are hypocritically accusing other players of committing.
People that hadnt even touched the japanese arcade were already screaming that the twins are broken ... what were the odds of them revising their opinions anyway at launch ?
As usual , you'll see people only swear by the results of pro players , and when the tier list is disproven even once , those same guy will advance multiple excuses about the why the op chars didnt win .
We havent truly seen yet godlike western yun and yang players , and the ones we saw from asia , are guys we are used to see rule with any other char they used to choose .
It's way too early , even if right to judge the game broken . It doesnt matter if the game was in japan already month ago , most of you guys around here werent there to judge and actually test it and only just got the game .
@ Fire
"The point I've been trying to get across is that racism and nationalism are clearly two factors for why Yun is getting at least 100x more hate than usual."
How exactly did you make it clear? By pointing to Guile and Cammy receiving less "hate"? Assuming you are correct that they didn't score as high on the "hate" meter, how would that "fact" in itself support the argument that there is national bias and / or racism involved?
You point to Guile and Cammy being American and soldiers, while as other people point to the fact that neither Guile nor Cammy have ever been dominating the tournament scene.
It seems to me that much of the "hate" posted about the twins is being expressed by people in terms of gameplay, not in terms of how they look or any other reason.
I wonder what you think Americans feel about Balrog...
@243
Dont feed obvious trolls. We get dumb enough comments from the guys who say ömg nerf anything i cant figure out"without having to read arguments from some other bonehead about racism and tiers.
@mrdrofficer If that argument were taken as true then wouldn't both sides be guilty of not adapting? The argument then come down to the more reasonable side. Some of the complaints are a little ridiculous though don't you agree? Especially after you take a look at the past where people were willing to deal with strong characters in 3rd Strike, MvC2, and Super Turbo.
There never used to be uproars like this untill the more "casual" fighter came around.
You can become the best Dan player in the world and play that character to his full potential. But there is no way you gonna win a first to 5 or 10 against Daigo's Yun or Mago's Fei.
Not even if your skill is just as good as theirs. In the end the gap between the characters is too big.
@Flawless
I do agree that both sides have ridiculous extremes. "New" players complain too much about the twins and not enough about characters like Hakan who is once again left out of getting a fair shot in competition.
And "old" players complain too much about updates as if they never existed and are only made to appease lesser skilled players.
To me, neither are true but I understand why both would think that. However, I disagree that uproars are the fault of new players. To me, the hate is mis-directed at players when it is just the state of the industry these days. No ones fault either good or bad, though I have to admit I prefer updates to no updates.
On a quick separate note, I love how people are quick top call Daigo a Tier Whore when they forget that he won Evo 2009 with Ryu in Old SFIV and continued to win tournaments with Ryu, who if I remember correctly is Mid to Upper Mid Tier? And Ryu is only this high because of what Daigo + Others have managed to achieve with him. And he stated he would use Yun before SSFIV: AE even came out. No I am not a Daigo D*** rider, I'm just stating the facts, something people should all do before throwing out phrases.
Even then , the "XXX is a tier whore" guys act as if they had long lists of bottom tier characters having success in pro tournaments .
Some of those guys play the game as pros , they got no commitment to fullfill towards any of us .
How many of the whiners even bother with the likes of dan , gen or hakan ?
@SAMURAI You're exactly the kind of moron that people have been hating on.
Anyways (hate aside), @mrdrofficer You make a good point since I would prefer updates as well. Personally I guess part of my argument came from not wanting a MvC3 sentinel situation to happen in SF4 since Capcom has shown it is willing to nerf strong characters with enough complaints. (Assuming that is why he was nerfed since it seems very likely that was the case even though they deny it.)
@250 Flawless, wow, really? How can you possibly argue with what SAMURAI said. It's true. People like Wildcat get props for mastering a crappy character but they aren't going to get sponsored and they are aren't going to make money. Can low tier characters win against Yun? Sure. Can they win consistently in a tournament against all match ups and win the whole thing. The odds are very much against them.
Of course we are never going to get a perfectly balanced game. And I agree we should wait a while before drawing conclusions, but SAMURAI is correct in his statement. Unless of course someone wins at Evo this year with Hakan....hey, maybe that could be you since you seem to be of the philosophy that it's possible. Wow, that prize money is free for the taking. You should definitely go for it.
Also (not directed at Flawless), re. Daigo being a tier-whore. Not true in the past by any means. But one thing changed when AE came out. He got sponsored. It's business now. He HAS to win. He's pro - he gets paid to play and represent.
Why do you think he was wearing a MvC3 t-shirt at Evo? Why do you think he made a video challenging the US? Why do you think there's a section on the Capcom website called "ask Daigo"? Why do you think he's 4th or 5th in the PP ranking for SSF4AE on xbox (with a new gamer tag) and he doesn't upload any of his videos? It's business. It's called marketing.
Seriously SAMURAI. Some of your comments leave me shaking my head..........
i only saw one comment by this SAMURAI fellow, and it made sense.
it there's a big gap in the characters, you need to be not only better, but a fair amount better than the person your playing against, in order to win consistently.
Vega users can co-sign on this.
anyway, it's not just how good yun or yang are, but how nerfed or more difficult it is to use other characters.
id bet anything that if capcom made vega's jabs as easy to link as say, ryu's.... and if they gave him a legit cross up, that he'd ascend the tier lists, and many more people would use and respect him.
more so than them being overpowered, they are, themselves, balanced really well, where some as other characters aren't.
@ 246, 252 - Actually, we don't know that for sure either precisely BECAUSE no one has gotten that good with Dan. How many people have EVER taken Dan seriously?
Even then, that's a poor example. Dan (and in my opinion, Hakan) were purposely made with a ton of disadvantages built in. You play them knowing full-well what you're going to have to deal with.
Think of it this way: what if [insert god-like top player here] used Hakan? We'll never really know of course, but I'd bet said player could make Hakan look god-like.
Hey Roknin
I actually think a LOT of top players purposefully use under-played characters because the lack of match up knowledge gives them an advantage for a while (think jwong with makoto, gamerbee with adon, santhrax with just about every under played character you can think of).
If your opponent doesn't know the match up and you do that gives you a head start.
Ryu became and exposed character. Everyone knew the match up so well. So you had to be really good to win at a high level. Only really Daigo did that. Alex Valle and Air eventually followed in his footsteps but it was too late.
Maybe Yun will eventually come undone. That's possible too. I mean he's more popular than any other character on xbox live at the moment.
But I do think top tier players have experimented with low tier characters enough to know their potential.
To be honest usually the frame data doesn't lie...
Again, just to be clear of course a Hakan player can beat a Yun player, but the odds of winning a whole tournament against the whole cast. Doubtful. So I think SAMURAI'S statement was right.
@RedMist Quit being stupid. Telling me to go win a major tourney out of nowhere makes you sound ridiculously stupid. What I mean is exactly what you said in the begining of your #252 post. SAMURAI on the other hand keeps wording his posts stating that there is absolutely NO WAY that a lower character can win. Do I need to go get proof that this isn't true? Everything else you said was true but don't act like a moron
Just cause something is facetious doesn't make it any less irritating. I'm not a fan of the abandon all hope mentality that SAMURAI keeps posting with but I guess I should keep it more civil even though this is eventhubs.
"Why do you need approval to fix a game you released with imbalance? — Bfire0"
Someone should tell these noobs that Ono doesn't have that position.
Guile's Sonic Boom game is supposed to be strong, he only has two specials and he can't do meter gaining with random Flash Kicks. That being said, his instant recovery was uncalled for and almost impossible to punish. He should be a mix of Super and Vanilla. They made his meter gaining almost non-existent now, was is just stupid. Capcom always seems to take things to an extreme, and that is not what balance is about.
The only reason people are complaining about Yun/Yang is because they are popular. They probably don't know the match-ups that well, so they're obviously losing. I have to admit, Yun's run puch and his palm is effing annoying. Their hitboxes and priority is painfully strong. But you need to keep in mind AE is an advertise for Online Edition and to raise awareness of SF3 as well. AE is a game that is fast and caters to rush down now, which I'd rather see. I'd rather get rushed to death by Yun than chasing Ryu's over and over again, which is by far MORE annoying in my opinion. Not that I don't win most times, but those wins aren't enjoyable in the slightest.
I think people should focus on learning the match-ups instead of asking for people to be nerfed. If you learn the match-up and then ask for it, that's fair. If you haven't taken the time to learn what you're doing, you should be quiet until you actually know whether someone is OP or not. Trying random moves in a live match is not a good way of doing it either. Since patching cost money, that won't be for quite a while. I'm loving AE. The character diversity is so much better, I've even fought a Dee Jay. :)
Funnily enough, I didn't expect Yun/Yang to be popular online since Rufus isn't (still isn't in AE either).
However, all the coverage on the characters must have given them a huge boost. And since they're obviously the draw for AE, you have to learn to deal with them.
The twins are beatable, it's just they are annoying to play. The best method is good keep away, taking them on head first just makes it difficult. Set up traps and situations that put Yun and Yang in risk and force sloppy guesses.
My other problem with Yun is that he is a 50/50 fight. Most characters give you better odds or more options to win no matther who you have, but Yun does'nt leave room for these options. the game doesn'nt do well to punish his reckless rushdown.
It's not fair to take the elitist side and say "learn the match up." Most of the complaints here are valid, many pros will tell you straight up that Yun is too good, you would be in denial if you thought otherwise, to be fair, if you understand the game more than the average person you will see Yun is too strong and needs to be retweaked.
Every persons experience is different, if you beat 50 yuns in a row online without losing it does'nt mean you learned the match up, it just mean you beat 50 really bad Yuns. But in the hands of a competent person, no matter what mind games you have in store, it will be a hard fight, sometimes unfair.
Rebalance is necessary, the problem is just money. Capcom wants to move on but the game could use some more tweeks. Id' sacrafice more characters for a balanced version. Everyone just needs to except the game as it is. Nothing can be done about it for now.
@ 240
Yun and Yang are not the same as Yun has better matchups against the overall cast while Yang who is still good finds some matchups harder but Yang is better vsing Yun. Firstly, Yang;s reversal is 4 frames so it can be safe jumped but Yun's is 3 frames and can't be however it can't ba FADC'd. Basically every special Yun has is safe on block or hard to punish and he can juggle into ultra easier and has a way better super. Yang has his dash special which can help him escape pressure and also the fadc but Yun has more safer options thus being better against the whole cast.
I'm not saying they are overpowered, but from my point of view Yun is significantly better but not as good as being in S tier. I main Akuma and Cody and I don't really have much problem with either unless they are just better players except it's a bit hard for Cody but still manageable.
@ 246
You are comparing Fei Long, one of the best characters in the game to Dan who is arguably the worst and who was added as a joke character? That is just unreasonable. If you compare Fei Long and a middle tier than yeah it's doable but comparing the best to worst in any fighting game is just stupid, regardless of skill there is too large a margin unless there are some epic things about Dan that are undiscovered or Mago has no idea about the tricks and match up which will only last like 1 game max.
Btw IMO there will be a patch, not specifically for the nerfs and stuff but for additional characters because cmon, there are two empty spaces right there ande Ono the troll has been hinting about it for a while. I doubt they would just leave the game incomplete like that.
@#262
"It's not fair to take the elitist side and say "learn the match up"
Actually it kinda is . Until some magical game feature perfect balance , it will be that way . And we can easily imagine how utterly nuttered and boring the characters of that game would be . Hell , even then people would pick people according to looks .
Again the twins have shown so far to be overpowered , but not game breaking , wich wouldnt be the same thing at all ... we have to deal with annoyances like those in every fighting game .
I'd pay for a $5-10 patch aimed at balancing characters more. You don't have to nerf the Twins just buff up the bottom and mid tiers like in SSFIV - throw in two more characters and boom, you got another pile of money made.
I know the twins aren't overpowered but everyone is choosing them, and all I'm seeing at the tournaments since AE was release is approximately 50% yun players in Top 8. Sure they're good matches but I personally (subjectively need) need to see the diversity in characters being used.
Bring back the Guile how it is supposed to be, not overnerf it.
All major moves of Guile has been nerfed, but fix nothing on Guile's major flaws.
What's Guile answer to anti cross up? No (LMAO)
What's Guile answer to cross up attempt? fwd jump light kick (LMAO)
What's Guile answer to offensive moves? No. (LMAO)
What's answer to fix Guile's Suicide kicks, Upsidedown kick and the double swipe kick? No (LMAO)
Any significant difference or improvement Guile from SF2 until SSF4AE? No (LMAO)
WTF... instead of giving him more diversified moves, you nerf even his basic moves? WTF are Capcom thinking??!?! Bring back Guile and also give him more options!!
@ fireinthehole When you talk, you don't make any sense.
From what I can scrounge from the stupid ideas you say, you're saying Capcom chose to keep Guile relatively strong in SSF4 because he is an American. And you are also saying that the twins are not selected as much in America because they are Chinese?
Wow. Isn't it obvious to you now. You're the racist one. And you're also the stupid one.
mega troll~