At a EVO 2011 panel, Capcom's Yoshinori Ono announced that they've begun working on balance changes for Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition.
WOW! way to go. anyways 3SO is coming out in short of a month. have your SSF4, you whiners. i'll be playing a better game anyways (even if i get my ass handed to me a lot).
It really will be a mystery whether they try to buff some of the lower tier characters like Gen and El Fuerte - they're unique playstyles would be cool to see more off (rather than just gimmicky play you always see). It's hilarious how Dan got buffed so much and they didn't XD
But really all we need is a twin nerf, and some minor tweaks and this will be the best version of SSFIV yet.
Will it be available for both DLC AE and disc AE versions¿ I haven't played my personal disc AE version yet....I hope it's for all of them.
#2
I'm more afraid of them nerfing Fuerte again actually. He was only slightly above the lower tiers in the last game, yet he got nothing but nerfs apart from some improved jabs =/
Not a good look honestly
@#1 and #10
It mentions free download for both 360 and ps3, being a patch should apply to both dlc and disc version.
Looks like they are gonna use the actual arcades to see how people view the changes before committing for the console patch. Probably best that way to see how what the community thinks of it before messing up the balance again ono getting bad mouthed on his own twitter.
I am sorely tempted to post that Bison clip, but I'll settle for thanking CAPCOM.
I just hope they actually put some effort into it and don't just nerf you-know-who, but make some of the other characters viable.
Alright, I'm going out on a limb and say:
Small nerfs to Yun, Yang, and Fei. Probably some hit box changes, maybe a damage nerf
Gen buff
dudley Buff on hitboxes or something
Fuerte buff
Abel Buff
oni buff
Something's going to happen to seth. Not sure if it's going to be good or bad.
Small blanka buff or none at all.
Maybe a bison nerf.
Maybe a Chun nerf
Guile buff
Nothing's changing for most of the cast
Like a I said, a complete guess.
#20
Too true. No matter what happens, people always find something to complain about and blame their losses on.
I have a concern, which means absolutely nothing because only the masses opinion actually matters.... so there's no point in me saying it? hah good stuff.
I want a Guile buff. I play with Guile and him not getting much meter after a Sonic Boom is dumb.
DLC characters? I'll gladly pay for Elena and R Mika... but they should really let you try them out for free in the training mode and only buy the ones you want.
:D
Can someone just confirm me if this patch will also applies to PC or Capcom is just gonna let PC down once more?
Oh Jesus, so he's doing it just to make the whiners shut up and not because he believes it needs balancing? Great.
In fairness, Yun DOES have a little too much going for him, with frame advantage on so many moves, but I'm actually gonna say they need to buff Blanka more than they need to nerf Yun. I don't play Blanka but I know someone who does and Blanka has nothing - NOTHING - in AE. Everything he does is horrible.
Honestly, it wouldn't even take that much to buff Blanka. Maybe you could make it so Blanka Ball and Rainbow Roll can be charged FORWARD, too - if you hold either direction for two seconds, just press the other direction and a button and PRESTO - special move. It'd make Blanka less boring and necessarily defensive.
Lol wow guess they hurt Ono's feelings watch they nerf the wrong stuff again.
Give me back vanilla Gief and all will be fine ;)
@42: He and Svennson (or Killian) admitted the punch for the 'balance party' was spiked (i.e. it was in need of a patch).
I hope they did it just to see who'd defend god-tier characters in this day and age...
Hakan needs a 2 frame command grab like gief and hawk, oil dive(360+k) needs to be useful or atleast allow it to be used like viper and makotos feint canceling. One of his many command normals needs to be an overhead and/or allow him to have a legit crossover.
And thawk jab spd could use some damage love(his back throw does more LOL), still does 150 last i checked and the newer gief one gotta range increased and damage to 180.
Gief needs his exGH knockdown back, he needs to strike fear into the heart of people again...even if he still loses in the end.
whats this, capcom releasing dlc & not charging for it? WHOA 0_0
I think they should put each character at their respective best and let it be just a crazy game.
43
ok you got him you now have no ultra 2 and get anti aired more and a worse jab spd in exchange for a health tier that was removed from the game and an ex banishing flats that has a slower mix up after wards.
How about ultra grabs that you cant jump out of after the flash? How about Bison getting an anti fireball ultra as useful as Yun, Yang, Adon, Dudely, Abel twice over, Cammy, Cody, dan, Ken, Makoto, and seth. Oh wait those would be to "unfair".
How about no moves that are punishable on hit like blanka ball, Hien, and banishing flats to name a few?
This game has real issues that are not typical whining.
It used to be a no-brainer that things like balance patches would be free. It's kind of sad that new-age Capcom has to go out of their way to specify that something as basic as a balance patch will be free of charge.
Are they trying to appear generous? lol. I guess Capcom needs all the good PR they can get at this point.
I really hope Ono looks to how balanced SF Koryu is for ideas on what to change.
Since no one else is saying it let me, BUFF VEGA, Only good tools he had are gone and a damage nerf.... And if i hit you with U1 Knee no matter what it should connect, Tired of hitting people when they jump with the knee just to see that man miss.
I wonder what they wrote on his twitter I'm really curious now.
I'm an anti-nerfer in general, so please Capcom FOCUS ON BUFFS more than nerfs. AE brought in far too many unneccessary nerfs on almost every character.
Prioritise characters who are constantly low tier (as you successfully did with Makoto), like El Fuerte, Gen, Hakan, etc. Making all characters more viable will be good for everyone for so many reasons.
Dare I say it even reverse some of the strange nerfs you rolled out with AE on characters that really didn't deserve them (eg. Abel, Vega).
Then and only then, maybe, possibly look at slightly toning down Yun, Yang and Fei Long, if they really still need it.
Gouken could use a few simple changes.
Gouken flip kick - Needs to be an over-head like it used to be.
Goukens dash punch - Needs to be a lot faster, startup wise and movement speed. The light punch version needs to be able to land off a simple hit confirm. Crouching light punch x 2 into light punch palm, or something of that nature.
Kongo - return it to how it was in super.
@66 Hopefully they avoided any reference towards the disasters people do like to pull of some 4chan type sh!t.
LOL Ono telling people to stop their hate for him , well it's nice they're coming out with a balance patch. I just ask for a slight hakan buff and of course the twin nerf.
As long as they get the input from the right players please avoid your own website Capcom Unity those forums are painful. also avoid front page of EH & SRK.
''Ono said since he's announcing this, he's asking people to please tone down all of the bad language and insults on his Twitter account.''
Wow, people can STILL fcking surprise me. 99% of the changes everyone wants would be a terrrrrrible end decision, stop insulting/attacking this guy, hes like the best dev. ive seen so far by far.
Buffs for Mr.Hawk, please! Faster activation and recovery on condor spires, Tomahawk have a better hitbox and maybe make the condor dive less easy to punish on block, increase walking speed and make both dashes viable. The forward dash faster and able to go farther, same with the backdash. Atleast make Hawk's jab spd do equal damage to Giefs if it can't even go as far. Maybe make his all his spd's do A LITTLE more damage because Hawk can't get back in after spd as easily as Zangief can. Maybe some of these buffs are OP, but I want some T.Hawk love in this patch.
Buff Makoto's Karakusa/EX Karakusa Range. All I want. You can nerf her DP hitbox for all I care, I rarely ever use that move, even since it was buffed to retarded levels in AE.
http://www.famitsu.com/news/201107/31...
Two new SFxT trailers
I'm not mad really, for some reason changes to characters and giving them nerfes and buffs don't really bother me, but I would like for them to make T.Hawk a little stronger, though they would probably have better ideas to buff him than I would.
@#73
Dude!!! you know what i miss most about gief, was a usable running grab. Sf2 days C.MK into running grab trap put the fear of god into people. I like how it worked in mvc1 and alpha 3 also. And not to forget hugo running grab in 3s. All useful for my playstyle. The damn one in sf4 series is too much of a give away to even think about using. Putting up the arms in slow motion then SLOWLY charging forwards makes me sick.
Im really excited. A lot of top tier players hate this game. And that does not affect me much since I still enjoy this game but when I tune into streams and such and see players play and dislike every part of it, it's boring.
In general players already don't like the game a lot but at least in super not every conversation was about the s tier or making corny remarks about Super street Yun fighter four: fei long edition etc. Let's get back to some of the hype that super brought and try to enjoy it all. That's what I hope this re-balance brings.
Squeaky wheel gets the grease once again. Capcom is just another company that only cares about the crybabies. With Yun and Yang rendered unplayable, just refund my money for this awful expansion and change the title to "Super Street Fighter 4: Crybaby Edition". Evil Ryu and Oni are a joke that no one even plays.
@Powdered it also needs a cancel to further add mind games.
I am confident that the people at Capcom will do there best to make the game as balanced as it can be. Looking forward to it.
Well just nerf fei and yun and some buffs to vega and I will be ok, of course... dont nerf this time el fuerte and give real buffs to hakan and t.hawk, and please dont try to buff ken, zangief, chun, bisoon, balrog, akuma or sagat, they are fine now we dont want s tiers again.
Im playing with guile and honda and I see they are very good still, no need of buffs (well guile ultra 2 damage only)just people are too lazy and want easy high turtle damage
I hate complaining to game developers, I'm sure they'll do a good job.
@grimm
Na man i wouldnt want gief to go overboard even tho ive used him since i was young in the old school sf days. Would rather hakan have a more define role with that. Him being the cancel grappler, he can cancel his ex oils/dashes/oil dives would make sense for his oily ass to be able to do that not gief. Gief just needs to be able to terrorize people on wake up again.
Im cool with it, I prefer zoning. Hopefully they get it just the right mix
@79 good point about gief running grab, what's the point of a move if it's not used by players? that's when you know it needs tweaking, same goes for dudley's tunderbolt.
I would really like guile to get some more target combos along with some others, the projectile wars get boring sometimes.
Perfect!
Shoutouts to Fireinthehole, ssf4yunedition, Hav, Flawless matador, lord jim, hell the entire Yun/Yang/Fei Dickriding army, I've heard MK vs Dc Universe is a pretty broken POS game, why don't y'all fuk off and play that?
XD
okay so from what I've read in these comments, three characters that need a nerf are yun, yang, and fei long. I don't think e.ryu or Oni need a buff because many people play them and they are not low tier nor top tier characters, they're just alright which is perfect. Also, it should take less time to put oil on hakan or remove it completely and make him like he's always on oil but at the same time slightly nerf his damage output or something. And his command grab must be like that of zangief, 2 frames. All of the charge characters should be left alone, they where all top tier in super and now people can actually stand toe to toe in fight against them
Yeah I get you they could fix the motion for U2 and turn it like Oni's ground and air. It would make him broken though lol.
Gief could used his vanilla lariat as well as an armor breaker his lack of one doesn't help.
@100 yeah they aren't going to balance the game the right way let me tell you that right now plus Yang is perfectly fine he needs no nerfs maybe a health buff and that's it.
Yun and fei need to be nerfed, 21/32 ppl in top 32 were either one of these characters. No yangs even made top 32, he does not need to be nerfed, hes fine the way he is.
Dhalsim,ryu,evil ryu,guile,fuerte,honda,rose need to be buffed a bit. The rest of the cast is fine.
I'm soooooo happy that I never put in the time for AE. Capcom doesn't respect the effort it takes to be good with a single player. What do they do, they just start nerfing. Why wouldn't anyone want to pick the best char and win? That sounds smart to me. But in all fairness...NERF VIPER PLEASE! NO MORE FREE BURN KICKS THAT ARE SAFE FOR DAYS!
Why are so many idiots posting the buffs they want to there mains?
IMO Most of the needed changes, would be nerfs..
Yun:
Increase Recovery frame on his dash punch
Make his dive kick the same as Yangs.
Make his palm the same as Yangs
Zangief:
Reduce the hitbox on his light punch command grab
Reduce damage on all command grabs
Nerf his double lariat
T. Hawk:
Reduce damage on command grab
Blanka:
Make blocked beast balls easier to punish
Ibuki:
Nerf her damn vortex game
Gouken:
Give the man a Shoryuken for gods sake!
Change his running palm to a half circle back unput(to allow him to have a Shoryuken)
Make his hurricane kick more like Guy's
And before anyone else says it.. NO GOUKEN ISNT MY MAIN!! I would just like to see him actually be good.
@99
yea gief runnign grab was useful in other iterations, Dudleys thunderbolt in sf3:NG and 2i was always useless for the most part which is why they took it out in 3s,although most people didnt notice. ex thunderbolt in ssf4 was useful for a chip kill with the basic autotrack on it and was able to be fadc'd. lol gimmicks :D
Personally i dont like guile as a character in sf4 series but i would respect it if they were to allow guile to follow up with something other than ultra after flashkick Fadc. air throw or allow some of his air normals act like gouken j.HK so he can follow up with atleast something. Given his damage and meter nerf, he should have something for offense as even dhalsim was granted that favor.
@#103
yea zangief is in a iffy spot to be touching too much. U2 is good as is, and being controllable. Wouldnt be right to be greedy with it lol.
@#105
They could use kick lariat for a armor break, or doing something with that running grab as the go to armor break as it is the only other thing that moves him forwards that isnt the green hand.
@#108
How would they screw over arcades when, from the sounds of it, is gonna be the guinea pig for the changes first before finalizing for the console patch.
Nerf Blanka balls more? Hes already Mid low, if not low tier. Gouken doesnt a srk, not in his design. Just more realiable anti airs. Vega needs his heel back combined with his A.E. buffs. Ibuki is fine, thats her game. I think Viper Burn kicks should be more punishable as will
@50: I am in complete agreement with you. Before considering balance buffs/nerfs/whatever, they should change the properties of certain moves so they aren't completely useless, even on hit. Like simply making hit EX blanka ball or Ibuki's Hien be a knockdown would be good enough. As of right now, there is not much use for Hien without super to keep it safe. At least with Gief you can FADC that sh!t (which is still ridiculous that you have to FADC a move on hit to keep it safe). But blanka ball and Hien, you can't.
Also please Capcom fix some of the wonky hitbox stuff like Ibuki's ultra 2 not fully comboing 100% of the time, or ranged tsumuji kicks not fully comboing 100% of the time, or Ibuki's target combo 4 whiffing on certain crouchers even on hit.
Yeah there's a lot of dumb stuff in this game that don't include the twins or Fei.
I hope it's the last time we will hear a developper saying he made imbalanced game on purpose, or that a fighting game must have strong and weak character...
All the hate is just coming from this. I think players don't care if some characters are stronger "accidentaly", but saying things like that is one of the most stupid public relation move ever.
Don't complain too much, Ono, you made this happen.
his super iteration of heel to clarify, and reliable* :(. lol. Thawk as much i hate him needs buffs.
I wish they would just release the balance without announcing it months in advance. Now we get the endless parade of opinions that will not be paid attention to and the subsequents months of bitching that what people wanted didn't happen. So tiresome.
@114, 116
All the things i mentioned IMO are cheap/scrubby/over-powered, hence why i think they chould be nerfed. it doesnt matter where that character is on a tier list, they can still have cheapo moves that need nerfing. Im not crying about it. i can live without those changes. i just think, to make the overall game better online, those changes need to be made
Why do people keep going on about tiers? Seen as most of use dont use our characters to anywhere near there full potential, the tiers dont really mean anything, unless your at a pro lvl.
i think AE could do with this balance patch but 99% of the suggestions in this thread are beyond retarded.
The general consensus seems to be :-
1. Some characters need a buff "aka" buff my main.
2. Some characters need a nerf "aka" nerf all characters i personally don't like or have difficulty beating.
3. Everybody else is fine "aka" any character i can beat easily is fine.
Thank God Capcom won't be listening to this crap!!!
I hope they balance it properly this time, as in not just nerf the twins and fei and then revert a bunch of changes and we pretty much get super again (which wouldnt be a bad thing). I want capcom to balance the game towards AE. A more offensive game then super. Give Sim and Guile and other defensive characters tools so they can fight up close. Buff Sim drills so there useful up close similar to a DK or something crazy like that. Of course nerf the twins and fei but not so much that they are horrible characters. Please capcom do it right this time.
Guy: needs his bushin flip throw damage back to 200, extra 10 points of damage to the bushin elbow, plus 5 stun to his Cr.Lk and for god's sake make his U2's command qcb x2 PPP!
Yun: need more recovery frame on his lunge punches, make lunge punches non-armor breaking, add armor breaking to shoulder but more recovery frame on it and his upkicks need to have the same hitboxes as Dps more recovery frames for St.Mk. same idea applies for yang.
Oh, and SSF4 AE NEED'S MORE STAGES!!!
@#23/TehTy:
Far too optimistic, just in my opinion. I firmly believe that 4 characters at minimum will get WTF-inducing changes, either buffs to characters near the top already or nerfs for the weak. I hold out hope that the net effect of the patch will be improved balance and increased diversity, but Capcom always screws up some.
@DeadlyMoves, is that a troll post? lol
Gief just got those buffs....he does not need nerfs whatsoever. Flash has gotten into top 8 because of the added damage and range on the SPD and of course those footsies.
Gief needs KD on EX Hand back, which should never have been taken away in the first place. I agree with toaster, his running grab could be a hell of a lot better. T. Hawk also needs a few buffs if anything, or just leave him alone, he struggles against zoners.
Blanka just looks stupid in AE. In the future matches I saw him in on the stream, he just looked damn free. At least bring him back to his Super iteration for buff his normals.
Guile should get back his damage on air throw and more meter gain on booms, that reduction just makes his fireball wars worthless.
Kind of happy to see this, seeing how Wong just looked miserable when he was playing AE.
Would be nice to once again see top players using Dhalsim vs. Sagat instead of just rush down. No reason we can't have a mix, variety is the spice of life after all.
Why are people saying "nerf the twins"?
Yang is fine. I dont think a Yang has even won any big tourny's yet. its only Yun thats broken guys
This is probably attributed to that one guy fireinthehole telling everyone to leave walls of text on onos twitter :U
.......People STILL won't be happy lol. Everybody's gonna bitch about something. I just hope nobody gets nerfed. and people get buffs thats ALL. Just buff the people with bad options. and after this NO MORE BALANCE PATCHES. We all need to just play the game and figure sh1t out from there.
@#126
Guy U2 motion is fine, its not like its a 720 for a grab ultra. Plus that motion was like that even in the alpha games.
His cr. lk is already +5 on hit... what exactly are you asking for? Guy does enough damage as is, he needs help in actual problematic areas which you mentioned none of :(
And i think you are unaware what you are asking for in the yun changes, some of them sound more like buffs than anything. The armor break on should would make his S. MP into shoulder as nasty thing to look for as focusing wouldnt be too hot. And changing the hitboxes on his upkick to like traditional DP's would make it more dangerous as it wont whiff as it does now in situations. and close standing MK is jump cancelable, what are you thinking it gonna prevent?
He needs to keep cammy the wY she is, but give her back her TKCS, that would be lovely :3
There you go crybabies. Your balance for AE is going to happen. This patch is obviously going to affect the twins. I doubt Ono will make big changes to other characters.
Nobody thinks Evil Ryus Health/Stun should be buffed just SLIGHTLY even??
(just would like to say - shame on the people who were being rude on Ono's account. That is NOT how you get things done! What if he had closed his twitter account instead of this?
>:|)
It'll be hilarious if idiots spamming Ono's twitter annoy him enough and put him in super troll mode. We'd end up with:
Even more Yun/Yang buffs
More Fuerte nerfs
Guile loses meter for throwing any kind of SB
Ryu's foot gets amputated when he does cr.mk.
@Al one can dream, unlikely for new characters since SFXT will have them maybe in the future I would think. I would like some A3 Stages those were neat.
#142 Nah He's fine... great DMG same Ryu combos plus a pesky but almost useless teleport? hmmm...he might just need a buff on his teleport but that's all I can think of.
#136 What ideas you got? they might be better than mine so don't hold out on me. :) But I still think his DMG on his flip throws need to be the same as super and Yun's lunge punches must be non-armor breaking.
143
I wouldnt of said anything if you weren't being so contradicting. You're saying you don't want to see ppl asking for certain changes, which changes are going too happen , and then you turn around and ask for more characters, when nobody has even mentioned or confirmed anything about adding new chars. STFU scrub. <3
I say nerf Yun a little and fix Yang's wake up glitch. Other than that maybe buff Dee Jay (I do main him and would love to use a cheap character for a change). The game is pretty balanced the most used character in top 8 is C. Viper and she has not been changed since Vanilla
Speaking of glitches, what about Yun's cr.HK trade into free combo/ultra? Or Yun's counterhit cl.st.MP xx lp Shoulder cross under?
@152
Ok dude. I really don't want to spam the site with mindless bull $hit.
To clarify it for you... I'm in favor of balance changes if it's to integrate NEW content.
I'm NOT in favor of balancing AE if it's to satisfy mindless scrubs that can't figure out how to beat Yun online!
I'm allowed to state my opinion, ok Turd? So now you can STFU!
@#150
Guys foot speed is trashy and jump is still floaty, both combine= wonky mobility. And him being a good upclose corner pressure character, it hinders him getting his game going. His one good reversal is still risky as hell, and still doesnt hit behind him really.
And my main beef is comboing into U1, bad enough it get scaled alot due to the nature of guy combos... it still only really work in the corners.
I would say the above would need to be addressed without asking for too much so he can become a more reliable character. That jump of his is such a turn off when being used to the alpha version guy speed which was relentless in mobility and pressure.
The bushin flip throw did quite alot for it being able to grab standing people and air born folks and did more than the command grabs the main grapplers characters usually have to resort to(jab version). so for the damage going back to 200 would be a bit unfair looking at the full picture.
Bison needs U2 to be a QCFx2. Scissor kicks needs to be back to the way it was before.
So many stupid changes to correct. let's all go back to Super.
@154 Shoulder cross up is not a glitch its in the game cus it was in 3S. The twins need there command grabs NERFED. You cannot have a DK character with a great command grab, guaranteed OP character. WAY less range, and they have to be throw invincible. Twins meter build needs to be fixed, not necessarily the meter palm builds (thats fine imo to make Genei-Jin, and Yangs CC usable) but the meter they build on there combos. Getting 75% of a bar from c.mp, st.mp, up kicks is dumb. Those are the big nerfs the twins need, maybe a slight damage nerf or move specific nerfs, but not really needed. Fei needs damage nerfs on a bunch of his moves. Rekkas and Flame Kick are the big ones because they do toooo much damage.
Lol at people saying people buff Fuerte.
Remember when you all said Nerf El Fuerte's Ultra 2 then Ono's team nerfed The Ultra 2, his specials and his normals and his speed and his range.
Anybody have his twitter?
I would say let the buffed characters like Makoto, Guy, Dan and others be. The rest of the cast should be like in Super again.
And give Oni a FADC on blocked Shoryuken.
Twins need a little bit more recovery frames on some special moves. That would make the game balanced.
#156 I agree to the floaty jumping but if guy's foot speed is kinda unnessesary because you already have the Run/Stop move makes up for the slow walk speed and Heavy Run/stop is Safe from what I tested out It just depends on when you Run and stop that matters Guy needs a faster or longer back dash IMO.
Just PLEASE, PLEASE Capcom. let this be the LAST iteration of SFIV. Honestly, as much as i love SFIV of rthe past 2 plus years, Capcom has got to stop MILKING us for our money. This is like going back to the old SF2 days when you released so many editions of SF2 until it finally got stale and past its time. SO PLEASE CAPCOM, all I ask is for this edition/patch or watchamacallit of SFIV/SSFIV to be the last one. Then move on to making SFV or concentrate your efforts on making STREETFIGHTER X TEKKEN Or any other old/new fighting games. OK????
@#161
Thing you are overlooking with that assessment is just for getting in. Foot speed plays a big factor in footsies and spacing, neither which the run/stop helps deal with. When trying to utilize far MP, far MK, far C.HK, dancing in and out of grab ranges.
All revolve around foot speed. Cody suffers from the same issues with foot speed hindering performance. Missing a big part of his game thinking its unnecessary, as dealing with characters with DPs+fadc or grapplers when trying to pressure with guy is very risky so you will have to fall back when the time calls for it.
I agree that Guy needs actual buffs in problem areas, watching Guy vs. Gief was just painful and of course, Guy vs. Fei Long. Like Dudley, he's given things that don't make his bad match-ups truly better. It's just some option you can use in general, but the specifics is what needs digging into.
Not gonna lie, hope we at least get one 3rd strike/one alpha character later on down the road. ;)
I also the balance patch will release the remaining 2 characters because there is 2 characters remaining and I still believe they are locked
GAWWWSH really capcom??? I mean most of these sheep bought vanilla Sf, SSF, and SSFAE(approximately $149 total, do the math) but you're giving this to us for FREE???
Crapcom
I just want the twins + fei balanced and give the C and D class some buffs to them them a fighting chance, Rose needs her ssf4 u2 back and a reliable reversal and I'll be happy
Ryu really need's the C. Mk back. Its really hard to play with no tatsu to scape and with no C Mk to take oponnent away or surprise him with dash. Ryu is a character with no chances now. (you can see the last filipo dhalsim vs daigo ryu and the difference with yun).
Yeah i agree with @Put_Elena_in_SF.
Back to ssf4 guile, ryu and bison, but yes buff other characters. I dont know why buff a lot of character and take drastic changes on ryu, its fine with buff and stay with ssf4 ryu. Guile its ok to reduce Sonic Boom ex charge, but no more change to him, back to guile ssf4 with the same Sonic Boom in ae.
Blanka hitbox is ridiculous, ryu can't hit S. Hk to blanka and i don't know what others move from others characters miss with blanka.
Let me get this straight! Now you people want Ryu back to the way he was!!!
Let me tell you something. I've played SF since SF1, I picked Ryu up in the Arcades long before he was a Capcom mascot. I mained him in Vanilla, I mained him in Super.
I endured over two years of people hating me because I used Ryu! I endured over two years of people complaining about him on this very site!
I have been baned from websites for defending him as a legit character!
Well, the whiners finally had their way. They messed him up bad for AE. And after 20 some odd years I switched mains to Chun Li!
Now people want "Old Ryu" back!?!
This is why (at times) I can't stand this community! So fair weathered. I have a bad feeling this "Balance Patch" is just going to create a whole new batch of crap for ppl to complain about.
@158: I don't recall counterhit cl.st.MP xx lp Shoulder ever crossing THROUGH the opponent in 3rd strike. I think you're talking about cross under lp Shoulder as a reset, which is not what I'm talking about.
@175 It's the Daigo Effect same with 3rd strike when new comers came in they hated on Ken mostly due in part to him. The only real nerf that Ryu ever needed was the wonky trade to ultra.
@180 I agree and it showed in the match against Daigo that the only real gamble you have is hoping a random DP hits sadly. Funny thing is Ryu was the poster boy of balance seen by some.
free update, well i might actually think about geting ae now. Hopefully they make GOOOD changes, ie start balanceing from ssf4, ie small nerfs with mostly buffs spread around the cast. Even better would be tweaks to the engine but thats a different thing altogether.
Very pleasant surprise!
Seriously I would leave the top tiers alone. Like many have said ...concentrate on the buff on the low tier and least used characters.
Now that we're at top 8 in EVO. It is pretty obvious that rushdown characters own. This is not a bad thing because most people enjoy watching/playing offensive but defensive characters are TOTALLY irrelevant in this tourney. If I'm correct there is NO charge characters in TOP 32. One zoning character in that made it was Philippino champ's SIM.
Please take consideration of this when you make the balance changes. AE is all about rushdown. I would suggest somehow give charge characters more offensive tools.
I feel the shotos are fine as they are. Grabblers need some buff in this order(Hakkan, T. Hawk, Abel, Gief). Give charge characters slight buff either offensively or defensively.
IF you really do feel a nerf is needed, please only nerf Yun and Fei Long. Please DO NOT OVER NERF like you did with Sagat from Vanilla to Super. Yang is fine...i don't even think he is top tier like many has claimed and so far there is no proof/stats to back this up either.
Also I would suggest give new move to low tier/underused characters.
Four letters: GDLK. Thank you Capcom you have my <3 !
@175
I already hate this community, because their are illogical.
I mained Ryu, and he got nerfed in SSFIV and AE.
This is how this game works, people complained about Ryu with no apparent reason, just because too many people played him, so they started to spread their words and we have this ryu now. Just because of popularity.
Anyways, the new patch is coming, maybe I will drop the game or choose the most reliable char, this is becoming a joke when the game cannot be balanced because all the cast don´t obey to a general rule system.
Um, correct me if im wrong, but to those saying that whiners should learn to deal with s-tier characters....
doesn't the fact that yun (for example) is in the s-tier mean that hakan (for example) lacks the tools or whatever to be effective against him? so that in every 10 matches, yun wins like 8? i thought that's how it worked, and it seems to me (not saying its true) that the people who want the game to stay the way it is are the ones taking advantage of the s-tier's advantages....
again, correct me if i'm wrong
also, @Aluppoj, you're not the only one who's played SF since the beginning, but understand that being all aggressive and calling everyone "scrub" makes you look like a tool.
@175
I already hate this community, because their are illogical.
I mained Ryu too, and he got nerfed in SSFIV and AE.
This is how this game works, people complained about Ryu with no apparent reason, just because too many people played him, so they started to spread their words and we have this ryu now. Just because of popularity.
Anyways, the new patch is coming, maybe I will drop the game or choose the most reliable char, this is becoming a joke when the game cannot be balanced because all the cast don´t obey to a general rule system.
I hate this community! Yun is op! Yun is not op, you guys are scrubs! Everyone will complain about something! Cammy TKCS?
~wisdom from the comments of eventhubs~
I'm a little upset about this. I hope changes aren't to big where I have to re-learn certain match ups.
You guys know what is going to happen right? Yun's gonna suck, Yang's gonna suck, fei's gonna suck and 3 other characters will get buffed to be "overpowered".
Abel- I actually think Abel is pretty good except for the fact that you guys made the hit box on the crouching fierce smaller making it harder to anti-air. Now what the hell is up with that, did you guys not nerf him enough on Command grab damage, the roll being more hit vulnerable, U1 and U2 nerfed? I completely agree with U2 nerf but why 1? All and all why crouching fierce? Only skilled Abel players can land an anti-air and combo it somehow. I think for Abel give him vanilla crouching fierce. And for gods sake, make his Falling Sky work better as an anti-air...
Ryu- I would say bring back his crouching medium kick but then he would be scary again.. so id say hes fine.
Ibuki- NERF THE BITCH! She should get damage scaled after 2 hits because if she gets at least one poke in, it turns into a 12 hit combo with great damage and mix-up capability. If shes going to be that good, damage scale her moves at the very least.
Seth- His damn dive kick should be nerfed in some way.
Akuma- U1 damage nerf, hes good enough without U1.
Dan- He should have less active frames on his hop kicks.
Oni- Fix air ultra 1! It shoots too far and he can easily be knocked out of it in the air.
TWINS- I dont need to say it but will, NERF THE MIDGETS NERF THEM BAD!!! I doubt they will leave them alone because people will riot but my suggestions are, if your going to give them god like moves make both of their health at least 700. If all they need is 5 combos to stun and kill a person then make them weak as hell. I wont go into detail about moves because others are pretty in depth with that but my input would be, give them vanilla seth health.
C. Viper- Her thunder knuckle needs to have more recovery frames on block, regardless if its light,medium,or fierce punch.
M.Bison(Dictator)- PLEASE PLEASE GIVE HIM NERFS!!! Honestly it seems like he doesnt have any bad match-ups in the game. I mean I know hes the big bad evil guy in the game but come on... At the very least, make his crouching light kick not as good, that alone will shut down alot of mashing players out there who just want a poke into scissor kick.
Chun-li - Should not be able to link a fierce punch to super, other then that I think shes fine.
Sagat- Do something about that roundhouse. If you want to be nice, make his fireballs have more recovery =]
Cody- Do something about that EX-BINGO!!! Other then that hes fine.
Zangief- WTF were you thinking giving him a half screen range on his Light SPD???
Fei Long- At least nerf his damage, PLEASE nerf his damage!! Also his rekka shouldnt recover so fast -_________-
Rose- Last but not least, Rose needs NERFS!!!! Nerf her slide and nerf the chip damage from her fireballs and nerf her backdash.
Hopefully Capcom looks and at least takes away some new ideas on balancing. I know people will disagree but this is all based on my playing experience from vanilla to AE.
Oh and while your working on that patch, throw in some free stages as well! People will probably drop the game for 3rd strike online and street fighter X tekken, so I say new stages =] bring back old school SF2 stages!
Deejay got rebalanced nicely for ae but we could look forward to an overhead that would be great.
All gouken needs is his parry needs to do tick damage this will solve the wakes up game. and the ex palm needs to work like shin gouken not the speed just the hyper armor like balrogs ex dash punch. This solves t
Two things first if he is low on health and backed in the corner he has no safe way to get out ex demon is not it they can get two shoryukens out before recovers so not safe. If the parry does chip damage then they won't be so quick to mash ex shoryuken for the win because if does chip damage
Second (hyper armon) Balrog has it and he does the same damage and stun and he has ex headbutt also. ex palm should not be taken out by a damn weak shoryuken .....come on really ! Who cares it don't do damage balrogs don't the point is most all specials that win against this move and they don't cost meter Just regular running palms lose the same way. None of the things I have said would make him to much just keep the street fighter god move (shoryukensmoves) think twice before exmashing away for wins
Well, I'll miss you, Yun. T.T
Now I need to learn whoever Daigo picks next to be the best character in AE. What a drag.
my god there's a bunch of fukin retards in here! "plz give us back vanilla *insert char here" NOT GONNA HAPPEN SO STOP ASKING! too many heads asking for dumb sh!t (vanilla gief with lazy lariat? really?) ryu doesn't need his lame ass cr.mk back, gief doesn't need kd on ex greenhand,etc. if anything HAS to change just tone down the twins and buff the low tiers like fuerte & gen and it'll be good.
All of the mid-tiers & up have to work just the right amount to EARN their wins w/o autopilotting on retarded braindead stuff (like ryus cr.mk from super or giefs vanilla lariat).just looking at top 8(or 16) for ae shows the viability of chars like ryu,gief,abel etc. despite changes.scrubs just want lazy easy wins.
all I would want is for fuertes running sobat (run,mk) to break glass & opponents cr.lk/mk/hk to whiff when fuerte does his shower kick.thats it.cr.punches I understand but kicks? stupid. either that or count him as airborne during.
@204 - no he doesn't.sounds more like YOU need it.his cr.mk is faster now but u can't just throw it out for brain dead footsies like u could in super (due to the hittable box not overlapping the atk box).its fine the way it is now.he should get punished for just throwing stuff out.he doesn't need his runaway tatsu back either. the same way a person has to earn the right to push ryu to the corner he should have to earn his escape. valle made top 32 with that cr.mk.ryu is fine (even if he gets to keep his lame trade to ultra)
How many times do i have to say this....? Yang doesnt need nerfing. Its only Yun thats broken. His moves are way to safe. Fix that, and the game is fine
Just don't over do the nefring just cuz some idiots tells you how bad they are, but blaming the characters not them selves.
Like above, tune down Yun and Yang, just some small parts, other then that Juri needs a tune down and others a buff. Just DONT OVER DO IT! It'll ruin the game again if you do so. -.-
@196 Most of your ideas are a joke, and you dont know what your on about
my comments come after the ++'s
Ibuki- She should get damage scaled after 2 hits because if she gets at least one poke in, it turns into a 12 hit combo with great damage and mix-up capability. If shes going to be that good, damage scale her moves at the very least.
++ Damage scaling isnt the problem with her.. its her knockdown vortex game. Reduce/get rid her knockdown moves and nerf her Air Kunai
Seth- His damn dive kick should be nerfed in some way.
++ No its fine
Akuma- U1 damage nerf, hes good enough without U1.
++ No its Fine. If anything they should improve the nearly useless U2
Dan- He should have less active frames on his hop kicks.
++ LMAO are you serious?! Nerf Dan!?! LMAO
TWINS- I dont need to say it but will, NERF THE MIDGETS NERF THEM BAD!!! I doubt they will leave them alone because people will riot but my suggestions are, if your going to give them god like moves make both of their health at least 700. If all they need is 5 combos to stun and kill a person then make them weak as hell. I wont go into detail about moves because others are pretty in depth with that but my input would be, give them vanilla seth health.
+++ "Nerf the twins" The fact that your putting Yang at the same lvl as Yun shows you know NOTHING. Its only Yun thats broken, and needs fixing. Yang is strong but fair, Yun is broken
C. Viper- Her thunder knuckle needs to have more recovery frames on block, regardless if its light,medium,or fierce punch.
++ LOL
M.Bison(Dictator)- At the very least, make his crouching light kick not as good, that alone will shut down alot of mashing players out there who just want a poke into scissor kick.
++ Again your wrong. The problem isnt with the cr.lk its the recovery frames on his knee press
Chun-li - Should not be able to link a fierce punch to super, other then that I think shes fine.
++ Why not? Other characters can, and doing a hp into U2 doesnt even do much damage.
Sagat- Do something about that roundhouse. If you want to be nice, make his fireballs have more recovery =]
++ LOL having trouble beating sagats are we? lol
Cody- Do something about that EX-BINGO!!! Other then that hes fine.
++ Are you serious?! thats his only half decent reversal, and its not even that good. Personally i think they should improve his CU to make it a decent get up reversal, and reduce his damage output slightly.
Zangief- WTF were you thinking giving him a half screen range on his Light SPD???
++ Its not half screen. But it too large IMO
Fei Long- At least nerf his damage, PLEASE nerf his damage!! Also his rekka shouldnt recover so fast -_-
++ Wrong again. its only rekka 1 that recovers fast. 2 or 3 rekkas are punishable. The only problem i have with Fei is his auto correct Dragon Kick.
without having read all the comments
I think everyone should read #124 and stop writing a wishlist to santa capcom.
(though I'd also like to see Yun nerfed xD I am not a good player, but I often get beat up by even worse players just because they pick Yun, and I think that's not right. now I will shut up)
jezus christ capcom is giving out a free balance update! a commercial company GIVING you guys something WITHOUT asking money! and I still see so much complaining!? some of you guys make me fu(king sick!
hail to capcom, the only company in the world that is so close with and good to its community and showing them love! great great stuff!
tbh i dont want any buffs just some of the broken peoples (you know who im talking about...) moves to get some sort of nerfs. But buffing a couple people wouldnt hurt i guess. IBUKI PLEASE :3
SF4 needs to fix so many things that are not just to do with balance. Some hit boxes are just wonky -_-
OMFG YOU GUYS WHO SUGGEST NERFS AND BUFFS ARE.....IDI- You Shouldnt do that! When a game is to be rebalanced so that it is balanced, it takes alot of time!!! Why!? I'll tell you im a SEC!
But Im sure capcom isnt going to just carelessly nerf and buff! havnt any of you guys considered that 'balanced' in fighting games means that in a cast of characters, each and every single character has to be balanced so that they have equal tools to every other cast member IN THAT GAME. So those who suggest nerfs and balances... I dont want to offend so harshly but what you say is quite stupid.
If say... Hypothetically Ryu can destroy Sakura because her tools arent that good in a fight with ryu but ryu cant kill Blanka cuz blankas tools are too good against ryu, what do you Balance? Sure you can nerf blanka and buff sakura BUT will sakura have the right tools to beat blanka? She may be equal to ryu now but might weak against blanka AND what about
the rest of the cast? They could be unbalanced as well!!! So you see, theres alot of consideration when rebalancing!
Excitement!
maybe they'll make E. Ryu's air tatsu put them into float state without getting a counter hit or them having to be in the air..
As a Honda player, I don't want to see the Twins or Fei get nerfed. All I want is for Head-butt to have upperbody invisibility (Vanilla and Super) instead of the lowerbody invisibility he has now. Honda's weakest part has always been his wake up game upon getting hard-knockdowned. And the change they did in AE made that game that much worse. Other than that they can keep all other nerfs they applied to him, I just want that one tool back. It plays such a vital role for him and when he lost it, him having meter became pretty much useless.
@#65 Matt
I was with you until you said return kongoshin to what it used to be. I love that change! I can finally walk backwards and tatsu as an anti-air without gettin a low Kongo instead. screw that. Give gouken his overhead back and....yeah after that I could walk around a semi more happy gouken mainer cuz right now the old man is GDLK! I used to say Balrog needs a nerf but the guy is really hurtin now. who else needs a buff: Guile, Vega, Gen, RYU(FOR F*CKS SAKE OMG HE DOESNT DESERVE THIS!)Cody(picking the knife up from a farther distance...really?-_-)Blanka(shouldnt be punished for CONNECTING a hit on someone)Dhalsim, Give Bison his official Bison pressure back(chris Hu voice), CAMMY!!!!!(TKCS PLEASE!, Give rufus back his damage. Make it so dan can taught after he gets beaten :D!!
And now for those who deserve the Haggar Nerf Pipe...
FEI LONG!!!! This dude is too good of a anti-fireball character. Honda...only because Mike ross didnt make it out of pools. Seriously...buff honda
Yun: His recovery on EX dash punch, his recovery on ALL his back thrusts, The active frames of his palm.
Yang:....yeah hes not all that bad aside from Palm active frames.
Yup...this will make the game okay. Seriously I wish capcom would follow this.
Crap I meant to put honda in the buff area of my comment
Gotta laugh at all the bye bye sf4 nonsense...
Main problem I have with twins is the command grab. I dont see them nerfing that...
I don't think AE is in need of anything drastic. A few tweaks here and there will be good though. I think the obvious changes are...
Yun - More recovery time on dash punch. Its too safe and needs to be punishable to encourage more strategic use.
Yang - Slight life decrease or damage decrease. Take your pick.
Fei - Decrease damage.
*****
I main Ryu, I actually like his new tatsu. I think it is much better for cross ups. Give him back his cr. mk and he will be fine and will put him about even with Ken.
Gouken will never have his flip dive kick as an overhead. As much as I would love that they made the change for all characters with flip type moves. Akuma, Guy and Cammy all have command type dive moves that can be blocked low. If they change Gouken they have to change the rest.
I think they should make Gouken's d.mk dive kick activate faster like Seth's d.hk. That will help with the mixups, change trajectory more drastically and mitigate the loss of flip overhead dive kick.
That Kongo was a failed experiment. They need to change it back to high/low only. Everyone uses EX now cause jump ins are unreliable to gauge with Med/High. Jab confirm into lp palm would be great as well.
Yun needs a little more recovery time on some of his moves (about 2 or 3 more frames) and maybe have his lunging punch do a little less damage on block. Also give evil ryu's super a little bit of startup invincibility (anywhere from to 1 to 3 frames of activating it) other then that the game's pretty balanced.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9ohnM... <<- video of some scrub getting bodied 2 games in a row by Daigo's Yun. That dude obviously doesn't work on his game much which is clearly why he lost. You would think since AE has been out for months in japan he would have practiced a little. Changing the game for a scrub like him is just catering to the masses...
...Kappa
@215 - the point is ryu is still good retard! valle made 21st and theres 3 ryus in top 32 out of how many ppl???the only reason ryu didn't go farther is cuz daigo wasn't using him, not cuz he's ass. daigo was #1 not ryu.All of u asking for that back want it cuz ur footsies are ass & need the auto footsies it provided.in super that attack was active for way too long and even if u knew it was coming some chars had no REAL answer for it.which is y it was abused to the point of it being nerfed.now its hittable at any point and got a speed boost as a trade off. if I know what ur gonna throw u should get punished for not mixing ur atks better.u can't just throw it out randomly anymore.
@237: what is this "speed boost" you speak of? Afaik, Ryu's cr.MK has been 5f startup since vanilla.
All these posts about Gen needing buffs etc etc must understand that the only thing he needs is the return of his ex oga. If he had that back, without any other changes to him, no change to his oga speed (etc) he will actually be able to hit upper mid tier or top tier. He could've been considered the best character in the original sf4, with an answer to just about anything. If he had ex oga back, I can assure all of you that a Gen player could and would win EVO without a single nerf to any of the top tiers like Fei or Yun. Getting this back doesn't mean everyones going to use him either, since the beginner learning barrier is a bit.... big... especially when his tc hands loop is difficult to pull off...
@236
if that was Xian or Hsien Chang, Tokido would of won. but because its Daigo it gives you another excuse to blame the char and not the player. Daigo still whooped Tokido in a first-100 in Super with Ryu (let me remind you Ryu is lower then Akuma in Super). and still they nerfed Ryu. face it any character Daigo plays with will be considered too strong. the guy plays smart and his execution is ridiculous. but whatever like i said, 3SO is coming. people who whined will regret it...trust me!
nerf Yun all you want thats fine. i dont even main him. but leave out the rest of the cast. even Fei and Yang, just for the sake of not being a nerf/buff whore. i think #196 is an idiot, if he wants a nerf to Dan. honestly hes dead in SFXTekken...what more could you want. we'll see him excel in that game, since that OP broken piece of $hit Dan isnt in the game. ugh this community makes me sick. for once i want to go to SRK.
Please take away all the Vega nerfs you have made and
1- Fix his Ultra 1; it doesn't continue the ultra's main part if you have hit the opponent as anti-air or it doesn't even hit when you do the counter-wall version from the fullscreen.
2- Make his jabs easier to link. Which other char. has 1 frame link for his/her jabs?
someone get #124's comment up there. they should have a voting system like Youtubes on EH. seriously it would help a lot with separating the idiots from the players.
@235
i don´t main Yun, but i will defend it, because he is not OP, if he was, he would be banned from torneys, also Ono would stated that Yun is too OP, of course, this never happened.
Who says Yun is OP are people who can´t defeat him, feel helpless against him. This is apparent by the ridiculous commentaries. Saying yang is OP...lool.
The balance pathc will solve nothing, because the next waave of complains will begin.
^ You ser, are a fool.
Yun gets all up on anyone without DP for free.
Fei is a little too good as well. I never understood his buffs, when characters like Elf get nerfed. Like he said, of the top 32 at evo, 21 were yun/fei, and 5 of them where random guys.
Please make vega's super hit on the way up. (and fix pursuit properties for ultra)
give him rapid fire jabs. He's not a grappler.
If not that, just return his previous ssf4 iteration. jfc I dont get you guy at dev.
@247: 21/32? Can you name all those 21 Yun/Fei players? Or are you trolling?
@248: Don't forget the hitbox nerf. The hurtbox now extends past Ryu's foot, so it's a whole lot easier to stuff.
@1 You mean split up 10 people in the States vs. a million across the globe. It's not financially viable for Capcom to make Arcade cabinets anymore, even in Japan. They said so recently. Just good for testing.
Having said that, I think they can load DLC onto arcade cabinets, so it shouldn't be a problem.
But seriously I think the console versions are more important. You can still have communities.
@242 they haven't been much better even the srk forum has been wack with the following tier list, wishlist, is x character better or worse, a Yun thread, if there was a rebalance and now rebalance is coming. So yeah not much difference than here. Both have shown to have some smh comments.
dont nerf to much stuff i dont want this game to be like SUPER that game was really boring also hope this is the last of sf4 and you guys cant really say capcom is milking I mean if you ask of course they are gonna give it anyway just want capcom to end sf4 with this balance patch
Put this in perspective of SFxTekken, Tekken 6 came out 3 years ago with 40 characters, no balancing issues, and it hasn't costed anyone who bought it a dime since. Think now about the fact that this patch will equal the fourth version of this game, and if you've kept up with it since its been released its essentially the cost of two games but that's not including all the costumes they've been releasing. With this model who really wants to buy a day 1 fighting game from Capcom?
Who wants to bet in a year from now we will already be hearing about the next version of SFxTekken?
@ MeLLow
I want Dudley to be good too. Here's what he needs.
Balrog Jab button
Balrog crouch roundhouse
Balrog Dash Punch
My opinion is that they need to review who's input they get in balancing. SURE, pro players are fairly knowledgeable about the game. However, if we've relied on them for so long, why do we need patch after patch? If they are the best indicators for balance, why is there imbalance in every version out there?
I've come to accept that perhaps the game will never be 100% balanced at all. These updates happen to rake more money for Capcom by having everyone buy the same game several times. Of course for 99% of the people, as with myself, the updates do not really matter - Yun and whoever is just as good as someone else.
There will be a new top 5 next patch, so I do not really see the point. SF3:3S has some painful imbalances, but it would be imbalanced anyway...
@245 I dont have a problem beating Yun's online. infact i think my win percentage against him is about 70%. But i have to admit he's overpowered. Sagat was OP in vanilla, yet he wasnt banned from tournys ;)
All capcom need to do with Yun is...
- increase recovery frames on his dash punch
- slightly reduce his meter gain.
- make his dive kick exactly like yangs
- make his palm exactly like yangs
those changes would still keep him strong n top tier. but it would stop him from being so overpowered
are u f***** serious? some guys here i just wanna punch right into there fat face..
now ono doing a balance patch and some people STILL complain?
be happy that it will be balanced..
theres 2 things u haters can do
1. shut the f up
2. go play hello kitty online
I still can't believe people can be that... mentally stunted that they'd bomb his Twitter like that. The guy invited everyone to let him know what they think, and they do that with it?
Not many Japanese producers are making themselves available like that - !!!! like that is why. Request all you like but stay respectful.
More to the topic: I personally think it's unnecessary, and people are going to get way more than they bargained for (ie, nerfs).
Also, it's not very surprising that it's free - no company, not even Capcom, usually charges for patches (that's not to say it never happens, but I don't recall the last time I had to pay for a patch). This isn't a new character being added or a new mode - it's just a patch.
I think characters are defined by their weaknesses. EVO today proved that. Characters like Seth and Gief, who were played masterfully, were taken down by the mindset you need to have to play those characters - Seth needs confidence and Gief needs patience.
However, characters like VIper and Fei proved that they have minimal (Viper) or no (Fei) heel to attack. What can you trick a Fei into that you could properly punish? Nothing. And while you CAN trick a Viper, she has so much meter to burn she can almost always get out if the player can read it right.
This patch NEEDS to add nerfs. Only characters with more heel than might - Hakan - needs buffs. Everyone else can just relax, because seriously, after you play Hakan, you realize your Bison/Guile nerfs are really just making the game more fair.
Imo the twins shouldnt get nerfed...but other characters should get buffed... rose's drill and soul throw need a damage and priority buffs..less recovery on crouch fierce and ultra 1 on block...nerf her back dash slightly but increase her walk speed..neutral jump fierce acts as a knockdown like gouken and dudley.....increase her slide recovery...buff crouch medium kick...buff her reflect so they come out slightly faster....
-whatupike
I'm not too sure about anything else, but I would personally like Ryu/Akuma's air tatsu back...
I don't really understand all the bitching. I'm still gonna main Cody/Ken/Bison with no complaints. If they get nerfed i'll find new combos. If they get buffed, i'll find new combos. Simple as that.
I seriously hope they don't tone down Yun. Ono don't listen to scrubs, please. The game is in fine balance, only needs a few small tweaks.
@Sprfly
If your playing those characters, themn you don't know about the nerfs. Only Bison's kick is nerfed and even then it's 'nerfed' status has been exaggerated.
Cody/Ken were buffed - for no reason.
Play Honda to see real nerfs. Or Hakan to see poor buffs. In my opinion these are the only two character players that can really complain.
It's more like I don't care about the nerfs. And actually I know everythang my characters can and cannot do. I main 3 characters, but i play with others too. There were reasons for Cody/Ken buffs. You just hae no idea what they are because no reasons are ever given.
def buff vega dammit. like previously said, U1 should NEVER miss if the knee hits. it should be JUST LIKE MvC3 spider man's maximum spider in terms of where it attacks after the knee hits, it should ALWAYS be directly at the enemy.
wtf @ the person/people talking about "keep the nerfs given to player that didn't even deserve them" ...wtf is that all about?
yun is probably gonna be ripped apart lol, fei too if people have REALLY been complaining, not that i really care. Yun doesn't bother me too much, one way of the next lol.
most important is that vega must be buffed. i'm tired of having to defeat my enemy (practically) IN ALL PHASES of the game to manage wins, while they don't need to dominate ALL PHASES to get wins.
In view of yesterday's events, AE 2012 will contain nerfs to Viper and no other changes.
While I am very happy with the buffs makoto has recieved, i ask for three changes. First off, i know she would probably be a bit broken if all of her karakusas were throw invincible. so i ask that you make only her ex karakusa throw invincible. I am so tired of getting grabbed out of a command grab. how does that even make sense. Also, make all of her hayate's armor break (if yun and balrog can, why can't she?) and lastly give her ex hayate super armor so she could get through fireball spammers. that is all. Actually one last thing. Give Cody a good wake up reversal move. cause when the pressure is on him, he is kind of dead.
Just make Blanka do 10 dmg on all of his normals and specials and don't touch Dudley and I'll be more than happy!
please unlock or announce about the 2 remaining characters there are 2 slots remaining
A Vega buff is comletely necessary.
1- Either give the man his old anti-air claw normal move back or fix Scarlet Terror and make it a solid anti-air.
2- His Ultra 1's whiffing after the first hit is like a terrible joke.
3- His jabs MUST be more easier to connect. No other char. has 1 frame link for 2 jabs in a row.
4- His super is completely useless and the solution is that on-the-way-up part must hit the opponent. That would also give him an opportunity for him to combo the super as the roll can be canceled into the super already.
I really hope these are seen by someone.
For Arcade and Consoles right? Don't split up the communities again.