UPDATE: The tournament results have been added into the story.
@Grimmjow316
Well Yun is a lot better than rufus, maybe he have more stamina and no heigh restriction in dive kick but yun have a reversal with no ex need, and in that way fufus fail, also he is faster and with a command throw, is really a shame they drop rufus for a no weakness character (only excepting his stamina)
well that and the fact they nerfed his damage like his EX Messiah which was beyond stupid I mean it's just sad seeing so many make the leap but winning is everything in the end.
Also omg rofl at the Mike Ross picture.
thx to eventhubs. If it weren't for this site, i wouldn't even know these streams
Did Valle give that kid the go ahead to trash talk like that?
I also think that the poster of Valle's sideshot is sort of lame, but to openly make such comments on a live stream is getting a little too personal. Unless Valle knows him well and allows him to be talking like that.
Man these US Yun's are like not even roughly 50% at the level the japanese Yun's are at.
while it's good to see more and more player getting some kind of sponsorship, due to brining Beat em up / Street fighter a big step forward professional e-sport, it also takes away much diversity in terms of character selection. If you're sponsored YOU MUST HAVE SUCCESS, this means you can't simply pick a character of your choice, but rather of success [prolly tier list]
Evil Ryu has the best combos maybe he has his flaws but he does marvel style damage.
Hm, im gonna stop watching since last times (Times..) I went to bed at 7am cause they start so ridiculously late here (EU / Holland ) .
But damn, Combofiend going to Yun? Justin wong going to Yun? Wasnt Yang suppose to be better? Also I really dont see why Combo would go Yun when Makoto is an insanneee character, and tbh he'd have more of a shot (Note: I only saw one match)
FCK THIS SHI-t （╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻（╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻（╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻（╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Pff, if only Latif had Mike on his team instead of Mr. SNK. What's the point of going to SBO with dead weight?
@30 he dropped most since latif be mashing that thunder knuckle.
Team USA is gonna get blown up in Japan. Mr. SNK should be ashamed of his performance, Latif carried the team all day. They should've done 2 seperate tourneys to ensure that we'd send the 2 strongest players possible, like they did with the SF2 quals. Not happy about these results.
latiff and MR. SNK SBO representing
> Latiff ok, MR. SNK --> I DON'T WANT TO LIVE ON THIS PLANET ANYMORE
Good stuff To Latif, expected, didnt realize SNK to be there (Just checked in to see the finals) and DAMN @ Filipino being sad as hell lol. But TBH, Dhalsim wouldn't have survived.
What happened to Wolf though? I always considered him the best Viper. Also Justin wong, Ricki, combofiend didnt even get top 3? o_o
latif is the real deal it's just to bad that mr snk is his teammate instead of mike ross. it's too bad that mike ross couldn't pull it out. i think f. champ would have struggled against yuns anyway so i don't understand the choice under those circumstances.
How come there were no twins in the top 3 teams - 6 players - NO TWINS AT ALL???
I thought they were broken, overpowered, easy mode, auto-win, unfair? I thought you guys said every tournament was just going to be yun?
Oh that's right, you were talking out your scrub a$$es again.
SNK should really just give his spot up to Mike Ross, if they require Honda to stay on the team. He's gonna be so free in Japan, and they'll continue to laugh at us.
seriously can't latif just switch out mr. snk for mike or is that not allowed. i'd imagine with those players who do very well against japanese opposition, that america would make a better showing. if snk is on latif's team then i would really hate to be latif and have to carry all that dead weight.
@42
that's because Mike "DON'T USE TWINS ON ME I EAT THEM FOR BREAKFAST ROSS" was in the tourney. Watch it and count how many twins Mike Ross bodied.
I hate to say it (no disrespect to mr. SNK the guy's very knowledgeable and everything) but #33's right, that was all latif. It really hurts their chances of winning.
(And yes the dream team would be Latif's Viper and MIKE'S Honda...now that I could actually see going very far at SBO).
@#42 they aren't in top 3 because mike ross and f. champ took them out. they are still op or you wouldn't be seeing justin wong and daigo switching to them instead of the characters that they know better.
Funny how viper the least changed character in all the SF4 basically won everything. I don't think Yun and Yang are as good as everybody says they are, don't get me wrong they are top tier but really good players like Jwong, Combofiend, Marn, and Floe got taken out and they are usually favorites no matter what character they use.
Soo strange, no Yun and Yang in the top? No Yun? Seriously. Even Yun EGjustin was beaten by Mike Honda Ross?
This is impossible, Yun is overpowered, broken, to safe, too many options and impossible to beat and tournament worthy. This is wrong xD
Latif is beasting, but...SNK...I really hope that you give your spot to Mike Honda Ross.
all those players who think they Yun is broken and will get them automatically wins without putting alot of work into it. They will get body at evo. J wong's yun looks horrible today. Daigo probably played 1000+ hours with Yun.
Yun is not that good when i play average yun players online. I think i never lost to yun when i was playing sagat in ranking. No free win that for sure. if you want to pick yun please put more time on it. otherwise, you guys will be just pot monsters and only about to complain about yun on stream when daigo wins.
Justin should have stuck with Adon his still to raw with Yun.
Wait:
So the reason the twins weren't in the top 3 was because they lost? Really? It wasn't because they won? Since it's a double elimination tournament, how could MikeR and FilipCH beaten all the twins?
I thought they were completely overpowered and broken.
I thought you guys said the Dhalsim vs Twins matchup was 9-1 for the twins. How could Sim win?
When i was watching the stream i saw JWong getting peed on.
hella sloppy tournament, people dropping combos looks very amateurish.. compared to japanese players.. they have no chance
Pfft comparing online play Yun to tourney Yuns. Wong was dropping a bunch of stuff considering he plays 3 games it apparent he isnt balancing them right. So far the best US Yun is Hsieng and it's been shown that they aren't the most knowledgable as compared to the japanese players this I'd the same story as Vanilla Sagat.
tourney Yuns are no that good either. not just in today's tournament they got bodied in EC tournaments. Since Daigo won it in NC regional. I never see a yun win anything in US.
i never compare tourney level to online level. i'm just saying yun is not as good as you guys think because i can beat average level yuns. if the character is broken they wouldn't have problem beating my below average level sagat or cammy.
If yun is broken and j wong can't win with him. There is a huge problem on j wong's skill.
I don't get the broken talk the OP talk makes a little more sense.
@#54 yun-dhalsim is 8-2 yang-dhalsim is not so lopsided. yang is not yun. that's why most people put yun 1/2 in the game and yang around 5th. they were smart to match mike ross against yun and filipino champ against yang if need be. overpowered=far more powerful than they should be. overpowered=/=broken learn the difference. also it's funny that you call others scrubs when your name is "NerfGuile". if you can play against guile then you shouldn't even be commenting.
The other thing bothering me about this debate is the only Yuns that I have seen do really well have been Daigo and Momochi and they are constantly two of the best players in the world. Daigo can make any character over powered.
Unless your on the ST team at least they made it out of the first round.
@58
i never said yun is broken. I always said he is very beatable at my low lvl play.
There are alot of so call pro players said yun is broken. go listen to some podcast on srk or other websites. some players think they he should be ban. lol I'm not sure if they are joking or not.
Every 2d fighters have few top tiers. if you don't like it, might as well as don't ever play any 2d fighters.
SF X Tekken will have top tiers too. people will complain about the same thing. you just have to replace the character name.
voodoochild346:
Most people have yang around 5th in the game? Really? What list are you using? Can you post a link or the list itself? If Yun is so much stronger than Yang, then how come Yun's got no where in the tournament, and Yang got further?
If Yun is far more powerful than he should be, how come there are none in the top 3 teams (6 players). How come you weren't there to win and go to Japan with Yun? How come, other than Daigo, no Yun has won a single major AE tournament?
voodoo, seems like you are just crying like the rest of the babies...
@63 Oh sorry I was saying in general most people tend to throw that word without knowing what it means. But it makes no sense how balance was the goal at least by the way they always talked about it and then you choose to unbalance the game makes no sense.
spotlesseden:
Those same people on podcasts were the ones who said that capcom doesn't want guile to be strong. They tested guile before super came out and said he was the worst in the game. When super was release and Daigo beat down all those people at fight club, people were still saying that guile was horrible...
So the commentators want to ban a character that only one person has won a tournament with? Justin Wong is supposed to be the best in the US, and he got peed on using Yun.
I am loving the BS and complain (more like crying) about Yun, when we don´t see any Yun make top 1 in USA tourneys, even if the pro players are using him.
That is the difference in skill level between USA and JAPAN. IT is necessary daigo travel to USA, to make Yun top 1 in a tourney.
Also, so much potencial for yang and pro players like justin already using Yun, nice...everyone wants to win.
Little by little people will start to figuring the twins out, in the beginning was worse.
Really game has been out pretty long and the japanese haven't completely figured it out.
Yun players online are 99% scrubs. All they know how to do is rapid dive kick jump ins chained to high priority pokes into the shoulder move, if they're fighting a competent player who knows how to stop that crap, they just start throwing out random dash punches, palm from full screen, and other BS.
Example of a Yun player online in action : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cQ8_D...
NerfGuile:
People just don´t want to work, they want the easy route. I doesn´t make sense to ban Yun right now, time will tell us more.
also the only way a replacement will go instead of mr.snk is either if he can't go or they pull a PZ and rig it so one of "there" people gets to go. So seeing as odds are those might not happen he might as well level his ass up seriously.
>Overpowered character didn't win a tournament
>Character can't called be overpowered
half-baked logic
okay mr i'm so bad at the guile matchup that i made my name into an appeal to capcom to make him worse, i meant to type 4th. i said around 4th because i didn't remember whether or not akuma was ahead of yang. also rom finished higher in this tournament because he was using him since 3rd strike. there is no substitute for character experience on the highest level. but it's also telling how many top people including daigo and j.wong dropped their mains for yun. also when have you heard me say anything about a nerf for yun like you with guile. i said he was overpowered and once again overpowered=/=broken. like i said before you can't call anyone babies when "NerfGuile" is your name.
Grimmjow316 @70
Humm...japanese haven't completely figured it out? I am not a SSF4-AE big brother, so far, what i saw was Yun in japan pretty much defeatable and also daigo was perfected by the best ryu in AE at the moment in arcades.
Top players can beat Yuns top players, if they are not Daigo and Kazunoko.
Also, look at some C rank tiers list by some of the japanese best players like tokido, mago and daigo, also kindevu, however, mago was beaten by Ross, RF can beat daigo Yun,...etc. So many examples. Sasaki`s cody is another....
voodoochild346, i have never said to nerf guile. i use guile. retard. it's called sarcasm.
What list are you referring to? Can you post it or link to it please? You know the one, you keep talking about, where Yang was ranked 5th and is now ranked 4th?
&79 don't tell me your talking about those replays where Daigo never post up his wins. Also I've watched some of the japanese tourney streams where the touted Gief also has been shown to have little effect against Yun at times heck most hadn't figured out the active frames of his palm. But I'm not too keen on dwelling on this considering the last guy who was clueless as hell about hence why I don't want to push this no disrespect, only real reason he is so damn high on the list is due to the nerfs of everyone else if they were the same it would be more even.
LOL you should see the hate in SRK about Mr.SNK that Sabre is on there defending him.
@#80 can you not read or something?!?!"i meant to type 4th. i said around 4th because i didn't remember whether or not akuma was ahead of yang" that's what i said. here's the list http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2011/ja....
Lol are you guys seriously thinking Yun isnt that strong anymore? HES STILL CLEARLY THE 1#, that goes beyond saying. How long do you think these Yun's actually practiced? Revelations Yuns were wayyyyy stronger (not counting Daigo)
I felt as if Combofiend & Justin just picked him for the sake of it, and never even practiced with him.
And YES Yun is insanely easy to play with, but I do use chars like Akuma, Abel, Makoto (Super) which are hard so Idk. Give me a command grab..a divekick, a srk, and done. Ill win, hes insanely good and super easy to play.
Of course hes not pick up now and win a tournament, but if these guys actually used him lol
@#81 i totally agree. when people say yun is op, it's not safe because of his safe on block ex palm or his braindead easy dive kick pressure, it's the fact that capcom nerfed the rest of the casts meter building and made it so yun/yang only need about 5-6 palms to build a full bar. it also helps that these plams have alot of priority and completely stuff fireballs.
Voodoo, i went over to your link:
Last time i checked when a character has a three next to his name it means he is the 3rd best. Did you see the 3 next to Yang in the top 10 list. That means 3rd, NOT 5th or 4th. Maybe next year, when you learn to read this will be clear.
Did you notice, Daigo, Mago, and Tokido have Fei as the strongest? That means first, not 3rd or 4th. Get it?
SSJBizzle:
I guess you consider yourself the front runner at evo? What name are you going by, so we can look out for you?
nobody said he yun is not strong. We just said Yun is very beatable. Some Japanese players still think Fie Long is #1, yun is #2. Yun is still top tier, but not as good as you guys make it like Yun is god tier, overpower, broken .....
I think Marn played Yun for a very long time. I remember watch Marn winning with yun like many months ago. Gamerbee just counter pick his yun with fei long and beat him,
&His palm is basically a projectile so most makes sense, but due to the nerfs so far most forums of certain characters are just saying keep your main as a pocket character since they are like watered down Yun or Yangs it's a shame really.
@#86 hey DUMBASS i typed twice that put yang a 4th because i didn't remember if akuma was ahead or behind him. fei long is consider 1 by some because according to mago, he has less bad matchups than yun.
@81
There are some footages about yun, when the game was out only for arcade, i was not referring to daigo uploads in AE console, more about NSB, one or two stream and AE footage, which was clearly like water, that they figured him out. This not mean that they will have 100 win rate against Yun, just only that they already now his weak and strong spots and could do something about it and even get pretty conving victories.
Also, you said "heck most hadn't figured out the active frames of his palm", people have figured out the hadoken, it doesnt mean that they will always avoid it.
Anyway, i will not discuss this with you, you clearly have your own opinion, which seems to be that Yun is overpowered.
The only thing i agree with you is that some nerfs couldn´t be avoided, but i do not agree with the statement like "if nerf never happened, it was even". For Gief, which you uses, i agree, with ryu? makes no difference against Yun.
I mean, i didn´t like all the nerfs because of the twins, i dind´t like the nerfs because this nerfs made the game more difficult to fight against some chars that where already normal or difficult. Ryu Vs Gief (ryu can´t escape tatsu)
NerfGuile: Huh? Where have I hinted that I can take on people like Justin and win tournaments? (''Of course hes not pick up now and win a tournament)''
Im saying Yun is clearly strong especially for his required skill level. Let me put what I mean this way; It took me a crazy amount of games to win at a decent rate with Akuma..It only took me 30 mins with Yun in training mode to do the same, and almost win more than I do with 95% of my other chars that ive played for a year+..
I do agree hes not AS OP (Or even really OP for that matter) or broken as people make him out to be, hes def. beatable, but a lot already said that a month ago.
And true, I forgot about Fei, I do think hes a good contender for 1# still.
Grimmjow316,
So what you are saying is that the players that won this tournament, were not using their mains? They are actually Yun players? Wait, EHonda is a watered down version of which twin?
Voodoo: for the 20th time, you said Yang was 5th, then you said 4th and posted a link. In the link you posted he is 3rd - right behind Yun who is 2nd. You were saying people put Yun at 1/2 and Yang about 5th. Then you show your list and Yun is 2nd and Yang is 3rd. I guess your entire post was a mistake?
@81 and last:
If the 35 chars from Super were the same, that are some chars that could have some advantages against Yuns, like: Bison (scissor kick and U2), Honda (more damage and U2), Guile (more damage)etc But i do not see this for Dan, Hakan, Guy, Deejay and many others like ken, sagat, ryu and etc.
I think most that got nerfed would stand a better chance than now like Vega or Blanka for example those nerfs still don't make sense.
@93 Am I talking about this tournament nope read it again please before you post.
@94 out of all those most got buffed except maybe Ryu, but I can understand if the nerfs made actual sense into what the balance they were looking for which still has me scratching my head at what they actually went after.
#93 re-read post #78. reading comprehension is not your strong suit.
@100 I agree I've been watching Sabres rant but in all honestly this is showing that he can't take it when the pressure is on and instead of staying solid he goes random.
Yun is OP there is no doubt about it. And the argument of "Only Daigo wins with yun." isnt a good one. Outside of Gief Yun dosent have any bad matchups, the best a character can do is go even with him. He has great meter build, has great EX's, has a dive kick, is extremely safe, and to top it all of he has a throw invincible command grab. Oh and of course Capcom nerfed the characters that would give the twins problems. You can do a similar list with Yang and Fei and see that they are OP, thats one of the reasons that they are the only S tiers in the game. Yes they are still beatable and yes picking one of the Hong kong Army dosent mean that they are an auto-win. Dose that change the fact that they are still OP? No.
moving on from Yun talk everyone going back to this main thing does anyone believe they might make out of the first round solely on Latif's playing?
everyone on this page is an idiot (including me). Yun is top-tier, no more, no less. stop crying and adapt. remember kiddies...3rd Strike is right around the corner, you'll be wishing this is the Yun you fought, because i can assure you having been put in the corner with Genie-Jin activated TWICE in ONE round, taking off almost 90% of your bar, is in no way fun.
@102
The only thing i read is : Yun is OP, broken, S tiers, etc, 3 of the most recognized players in japan rated in like A+ (two of them). The only thing i see is : YUN, YUN, YUN
Why not make the same wave of complains about hakan, Dan, Hawk, etc..? AS usuals, Rogs, Bison, Guile and other chars players that don´t like Yun will complain because they want their char back in SSF4 form, even if their char was OP before (because if Yun is OP, so was guile, Bison, honda etc).
Pointless...
@104
You said one interesting thing: Yun in 3S. If people are complaining now, they don´t know what they will receive in 3S. The complains would be worse.
Moving on...
gotta love the way we derailed the crap out of this with SNK being ass today, to Yun, to nerfs/buffs to 3s lol. But real talk will both sides just stfu we don't need crap post saying well durr yun didn't win or the whole durr yun is broken.
@106
and what i love, is that there will be no crying at all!!
if you dont like Yun (Whore-Li) in 3rd Strike, you move on. no crying, whining, babying, etc...
@#99 you are truly a very special dumbass."i meant to type 4th. ===>i said AROUND 4th because i didn't remember whether or not akuma was ahead of yang<==== pay special attention to this part of the statement. now kindly slap yourself in the face. :)
@#95 i feel sorry for tatsu because i think vega's nerfs were in no way warranted. vega in super was exactly where he needed to be and because ono wanted to "keep the fighting spirit alive" he nerfed the majority of the characters that would have been bad matchups for yun and made the game more balanced.
Agreed #102
Just a note: The Twins not winning tournaments doesn't prove that they are not OP. The Twins winning tournaments doesn't prove that they are OP.
In fact, the best explanation for Yun and Yang's absence in finals is the SSF4 AE metagame. What's more, the metagame is usually the best factor to determine how a tourney will play out.
Just think about it: Everyone at a tournament, large or small, is going to be gunning for the twins, and coming up specifically with technology to not lose to them, since they expect to see them the most. While they're sharpening their Yun/Yang teeth, the Twins players are relying on the character to take them where they need to go, which isn't enough.
Whether the twins win big or not, they still, as number #102 said, have the least amount of bad matchups, and only one weakness, which is in their health. But guess what, their style complements their weak health perfectly, if they're attacking and most of their attacks are safe, they're better off attacking and abusing that safeness, so their low health becomes a non-issue in most situations.
This stuff makes a character OP. They won't always win. But the odds of winning are in their favor when you remove player skill from the equation. If you get two players of equal skill together, one picks one of the twins (or even Fei Long), and the other player uses:
Ryu
Evil Ryu
Oni
Akuma
Ken
Dhalsim
Blanka
Chun Li
Balrog
Bison
Cody
Ibuki
Guy
Hakan
Juri
Dan
Gen
Sakura
Makoto
C. Viper
Vega
Dudley
Rufus
Seth (if you're not Poongko)
Rose
Gouken
Dee Jay
Guile
E. Honda
Abel
Adon
Cammy
T. Hawk
Sagat
Or El. Fuerte, the first player is at a 50% or better chance of winning? That not overpowered? That's worse odds than blackjack at a casino. Next you'll tell me Crack doesn't kill and Birds fly by way of magic gnomes. Or in other words, spew bullsh*t.
I'm done.
OK Grimmjow...new topic, I'll make one! Has anyone seen any Gouken get anywhere in tournaments? He's my main, and I don't ever think I've seen him on any stream here...but I don't think he is that bad of a character really. Sure he has his faults, but in the hands of someone even slightly gdlk I could see him running things. What is it about him? just lack of real representation in the states? Opinions please.
@#111 *stands up out of chair and feverishly applauds* you sir get it. it's like people saying vanilla sagat wasn't op because long island joe and sanford kelly didn't win tournaments with him.
@113 if i were you i would pick up oni or evil ryu. i think oni has alot of untapped potential. also both characters have the wakeup/reversal game that gouken doesn't have.
Well. Well. Look at what we have here. The crybabies are ranting about Yun once again.
Funny thing is that 99% of the rants made by people here have already been stated numerous times here, there and everywhere.
People make a BS argument about why they feel that Yun is OP, I'll refute such BS argument. OK, those idiots will just go to the comments section of another article and post those same BS arguments all over again.
THIS IS THE REASON FOR WHY I TRIED TO START UP THREE THREADS DEDICATED TO THIS TOPIC AT HAND:
http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?...
http://forums.eventhubs.com/viewtopic...
http://forums.eventhubs.com/viewtopic...
The reason why I made those threads was because I wanted to create a hotspot for which we can settle this dispute once and for all.
One of the reasons for why I made the thread was if I witness any of these crybabies ranting about Yun being broken under the comments section of some random article, then what I can do is to ask these scrubs to take their whining and post it into these threads that I started.
But the thing that sucks about it is that the mods keep locking up my threads that are aimed at countering all these crybaby non-sense ranting about how Yun is "broken." and stuff.
diddysinatra: "Has anyone seen any Gouken get anywhere in tournaments? He's my main, and I don't ever think I've seen him on any stream here"
I remember watching a young pad player who I think was named Shine getting to the finals in a tournament using Gouken. I believe the character is even better off in AE than previously, but it's still true that I don't see many dedicated Gouken players anywhere.
@105
I agree 110% about SSF4-Guile being WAYY too OP.
Matter of fact, I've given DETAILED examples of why SSF4-Guile was INSANELY OP in all three of the threads that I've linked in post #116 here. It really makes no sense how there are people who calls for the return of SSF4-Guile at the same time that they want Yun to be nerfed.
BTW, SSF4-Guile is an easy mode character. If AE-Yun is considered "easy-mode" then SSF4-Guile would be rightflly considered "jack-off-your-way-to-victory" mode.
@fireinthehole you are a f imbecile and got called out by many players who know there characters. Hence the lock and most shared my sentiments like the whole thing looking like an online rant and using online play in your arguments lol.
Oh noes, the sir who thinks his word is from God himself come to save the Yun army from logic! Run awaaaaaaaaaaay!
Diddysinatra:
So you are saying that Yun and Yang have no bad matchups. And there odds of winning against the rest of the cast is 50%? Why? Because you say so? You're obviously a complete idiot. If what you said was true how come justin and marn both got there ass kicked? Why did floe lose? If the odds were so good, they would have at least made the top 6 characters at this tournament.
You say that's worse odds than black jack at a casino? How do you even know? Where is your matchup list that says they have no even matchups, that every single one of their matchups favors them?
Really fun watching all you scrubs cry over characters being overpowered and making your own tier lists up to prove this.
@117
Yeah, I remember hearing about shine, but I also heard that he retired a while ago :(
Well Kai tried Gouken today for the lame reason because of his parry (3s reference) he didn't fair so well sadly. But Shine is legit hopefully he can make it to EVO.
Now I want to talk about some of the other issues as well. One thing that really gets to me is that during the days of SSF4, many people were complaining about Guile being TOO OVERPOWERED and Cammy having a broken TKCS. Now when people complained about SSF4-Guile, the usual response we get was that SSF4-Guile is not over-powered because not many SSF4-tournaments were won by Guile players. People also argued that SSF4-Cammy TKCS was not broken because not many SSF4-tournaments were won with Cammy.
Matter of fact, of the people who did defend SSF4-Guile as “not OP” and those who defended SSF4-Cammy TKCS as “not broken,” you’ll see that the majority of the arguments used to defend SSF4-Guile and SSF4-Cammy revolved around the argument that those two characters did not win many major tournaments. But now people are saying that we cannot use the same arguments for Yun.
RevaLAtions, CEO 2011, NCR9, Shadowloo Showdown, East Coast Throwdown and now SBO tournaments have just occured in the US since the release of SSF4-AE and only one Yun has taken any of those big tournaments: Daigo Umehara. And people are now saying things like “Just because Yuns aren’t winning big tournaments does not means that he’s not overpowered.” After all the time that such argument was used to defend SSF4-Cammy and SSF4-Guile, and now the same thing cannot be used to defend Yun?
Anyways, SHOUTOUTS TO PURE HYPOCRISY!!!
Using such arguments to defend SSF4-Guile and SSF4-Cammy's TKCS then coming back and saying that people CANNOT use the same arguments to defend Yun in AE.
lol your crap threads keep getting locked so you all you have left is too copy and paste your stuff anywhere so sad.
@119
Pffft. Yea sure. You were the incompetent goontard who has repeatedly demonstrated the fact that you're reading comprehension ability is lower than that of a 3rd grader.
Feel free to take a look at this thread here:
http://forums.eventhubs.com/viewtopic...
Back in that thread, you'll make an argument which I'll then refute. But after I refute the argument, you'll repeat the same thing.
BTW, in all the threads that I've made there have been reasonable people who openly agreed with what I was saying. But then at the same time, there were also these crybaby scrubs who were against what I was saying.
@127
That's fine with me. At least the mods who moniter the comments of these newsfeeds are not biased like the mods at the eventhubs and SRK forums. They allow people to whine about Yun, but they don't like it when people presents facts to counter their whining.
They are the same mods genius at the same time over most of the post in SRK are from actual legit players hence they know the difference between an actual intellectual post and bs which is what you posted hence your lack of heck anything.
Also I find it hilarious that an actual Guile player gives you his limitations and you disagree due to your blind stupidity. Also you thumbed up any post that didn't "completely disagree" with you classy, real classy.
lmao you have nothing better to do than troll the Cammy forums what scrub go take that propaganda and shove it up your you know what.
@130
"They are the same mods genius at the same time over most of the post in SRK are from actual legit players hence they know the difference between an actual intellectual post and bs which is what you posted hence your lack of heck anything.
Also I find it hilarious that an actual Guile player gives you his limitations and you disagree due to your blind stupidity. Also you thumbed up any post that didn't "completely disagree" with you classy, real classy."
I reckon that you are talking about this MasterofEnts guy who made posts # 19, 23, 40, 42, 45, 47, and post #49 in this thread here:
http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?...
Well the thing was that I did in fact respond to most of the things that he talked about he. Plus, how can you be sure that this Guile player was giving his HONEST OPINION here?
Are you going to tell me that it's 110% impossible for him to be lying when he says that he does not believe that SSF4-Guile was OP? It's 110% impossible for him to be purposely lying about how he felt that his own character was not OP back in SSF4 because he wanted to manipulate the producers at Capcom into making his own character, Guile, back to top-tier/OP status again?
BTW, just look at this guy try to write a legitimate argument. He resorts to cheap tricks such as cherry-picking. In post #54 of that thread, I gave a pretty clear explanation of how he was purposely quoting only certain portions of my post #27 in order to distort the original message that I was trying to get across.
Now if he was purposely cherry-picking my posts in attempt to distort the messages that I was trying to convey, then that should tell you that his arguments were all gutter-trash.
-.-
@NerfGuile
1. Justin, Marn, and Floe are individual instances. They don't prove anything. Individual instances do not and cannot serve as proof. Learn your scientific method, statistics, and such.
2. I did not say they have NO even matchups. Knocking out your entire post...wow...that was easy.
I said that for the characters in the list, their odds are even and above, matchup-wise, to win. Which may or may not be 100% true, but you can count their bad matchups on one hand, even if you lost a finger or two. Which was my point, and you can't refute.
Even in the even matchups they can still have a major mental metagame advantage, which is perpetrated everywhere in the FGC, slanting even 50/50s in their favor. You know, those 50/50s that I clarified exist after the list of characters. And I removed the characters from the list that they have bad matchups with. Which was the point that you obviously didn't catch. So I'll clarify: That list is to damn long.
Tell you what. Its true, 80% of all statistics are made up on the spot :p including mine. I don't have a tier list to show you, but the point is, its not far enough off from the truth to discredit completely as you attempt to. Next tier list comes out, I bet Yun is highly positive overall in matchups, which means the odds are worse than blackjack!
That is how I know. It's called math.
You demand proof from me, show me proof otherwise. Real proof, not instanced "proof". Show me the tier list where the twins and fei don't tower over the rest.
Way to try to slant what I said "Yun saving deity #2." You can make people say whatever they want if you slant and take out of context. You could be a politician!
And save your insults direct at me personally. I will report you.
Wow, maybe you should have looked to slant a little harder...
To clarify. Individual instances cannot serve as prove when the assumption you're trying to refute is a "some" and not "all"
@131
And you? You've been consistently stalking me under the comments section of numerous newsfeeds, and you've also been consistently stalking me on numerous forums all while I have been trying to ignore you.
You should seriously look at yourself in the mirror and tell yourself that you're a loser. I mean, who stocks people online the way you've been doing to me?
I have made numerous posts here and there about how Yun is not as OP as some people make him out to be and I've also made numerous post criticizing SSF4-Guile and SSF4-Cammy's TKCS as broken; but I have never gotten so low as to stalk some other user online the way you've been following me everywhere that I happen to make a comment.
Anyways, you're free to stalk me around anytime you like and at any place where I happen to drop a comment. LOL.
You do know you contradict the hell out of your stuff right like for example since you feel the need to quote
Yea, that argument is also used all too often. But then again, just because Ono said that does not automatically make Yun worse than Vanilla-Sagat or SSF4-Guile. Ono did not openly state that Vanilla-Sagat and SSF4-Guile were purposely made stronger, but that in itself does not serve as good proof that those two characters weren't OP. For all we know, capcom could've have intentionally made vanilla-Sagat and SSF4-Guile to be more OP than the rest of the cast but just kept it secret and not told anyone about it. We never know.
There are many examples of characters being broken or over-powered when they weren't meant to be. For example, producers have said that Vanilla-Sagat was much more powerful than they had intended for him to be. Plus producers have also stated that they never intended to have Cammy be able to perform her dive-kicks so close to the ground; but Cammy accidentally was able to TKCS, and I'm not the only one who feels that the TKCS was a broken game-changer that the producers never even intended to allow in the first place.
End of the day you say you want a discussion but try bad counter points to them and now find excuses to try and make yours look better fail.
By the way fireinthehole.
Yes, people can say that using the "they don't win tournaments" argument is invalid. Why? because, scary thought I know, LOGIC DOES NOT CHANGE OVER TIME. It was an invalid then, and its an invalid now. Don't get angry now because now that you want to use flawed logic for your own (gains?) you can't. Two wrongs don't make a right, etc.
lol you're hilarious so I guess I can't explore forums it's not my fault I saw a familiar stupid ass thread and then a couple of days later run into same dumbass in a random thread. If anything you are the real loser for feeling the need to repost your bs anywhere stay free and scrub.
its an invalid argument now* I should read these before I post them -.-
@138
"lol you're hilarious so I guess I can't explore forums it's not my fault I saw a familiar stupid ass thread and then a couple of days later run into same dumbass in a random thread. If anything you are the real loser for feeling the need to repost your bs anywhere stay free and scrub."
Hey, hey. Keep it classy there young man. The fact that you keep throwing around slurs like "dumbass" only proves the fact that you're an overgrown child.
BTW, do you know what kind of person truly fits the definition of a dumbass? Answer: Someone who cannot write correct sentences. And here almost all of your posts are filled with poor grammar, mis-spelled words, poorly conveyed thoughts, etc...
On top of that, you're reading comprehension skills are REALLY bad. So please, go evaluate your worthless self first before you start throwing slurs around.
ooooh correcting grammar over the internet so tough lol go back to making up long unbearable post that are filled with scrubby mentality about Guile & Cammy TKCS being OP because you couldn't beat them funny you say that when you go around insulting also. Like how you avoid your on contradiction like I quoted above since you kept crying about me not quoting.
@140
"meant to say keep staying a scrub."
LOL, go tell that to all the crybabies moaning about "Yoon is OP, pleeeze n3rf him." While you're at it, tell that to all the incompetent players who are calling Capcom to buff Guile back to SSF4 status and those who want Cammy to have TKCS back.
@142
Where exactly did I contradict myself? I ignored your post #136 because you did not prove anything in that quote at all.
First off, you need to get the F-ck back to elementary school as you don't even know how to properly quote other people's words.
The following words are from a comment that I made, post #52 in this thread: http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?...
"Yea, that argument is also used all too often. But then again, just because Ono said that does not automatically make Yun worse than Vanilla-Sagat or SSF4-Guile. Ono did not openly state that Vanilla-Sagat and SSF4-Guile were purposely made stronger, but that in itself does not serve as good proof that those two characters weren't OP. For all we know, capcom could've have intentionally made vanilla-Sagat and SSF4-Guile to be more OP than the rest of the cast but just kept it secret and not told anyone about it. We never know.
There are many examples of characters being broken or over-powered when they weren't meant to be. For example, producers have said that Vanilla-Sagat was much more powerful than they had intended for him to be. Plus producers have also stated that they never intended to have Cammy be able to perform her dive-kicks so close to the ground; but Cammy accidentally was able to TKCS, and I'm not the only one who feels that the TKCS was a broken game-changer that the producers never even intended to allow in the first place."
Now the quote above are clearly my words. But people who will read your post #136 here will mistakenly believe that those are actually your words due to the fact that you've failed miserably at elementary school and thus lack knowledge of how to properly quote something that someone else have said.
Second of all, how exactly did I contradict myself when I made that comment there? You have not given a single explanation of how I've contradicted myself when I made that comment. You just randomly say that I "contradicted myself" while providing no explanation what so ever.
@144
Awww, how nice of you Grimmjow316. So let me ask you, did I get under your skin and into your head in this thread here: http://forums.eventhubs.com/viewtopic...
Did I insult you so bad, prove the undeniable fact that your reading skills suck ass, get under your skin, and into your head so badly to a point where you just cannot even control yourself and you can't overcome the urge to stalk me where ever I make a comment?
Whenever someone's argument breaks down, or something is brought to light that they cannot address (especially here and in forums)...they resort to (or in some cases start of wildly with) attacking the person rather than the issue...human nature I guess.
I didn't see above that NerfGuile can't read for beans, and always tries to take the smallest parts of what people say into hyperbole. I'll watch out for him next time.
Not really i just see you as a plague to most threads go post it over in Capcom Unity the agree with all things scrubby. Also the fact you can't see your one mistakes shows just how dumb you are.
"Yea, that argument is also used all too often. But then again, just because Ono said that does not automatically make Yun worse than Vanilla-Sagat or SSF4-Guile. Ono did not openly state that Vanilla-Sagat and SSF4-Guile were purposely made stronger, but that in itself does not serve as good proof that those two characters weren't OP. For all we know, capcom could've have intentionally made vanilla-Sagat and SSF4-Guile to be more OP than the rest of the cast but just kept it secret and not told anyone about it. We never know.
There are many examples of characters being broken or over-powered when they weren't meant to be. For example, producers have said that Vanilla-Sagat was much more powerful than they had intended for him to be. Plus producers have also stated that they never intended to have Cammy be able to perform her dive-kicks so close to the ground; but Cammy accidentally was able to TKCS, and I'm not the only one who feels that the TKCS was a broken game-changer that the producers never even intended to allow in the first place."
So you say the producers intentionally made Sagat OP and then in the very next paragraph you say he was more powerful than what they intended him to be. You ignore what you can't explain or try to push your opinion as fact which like I mentioned before they knock you down a couple of pegs but blindly keep saying mindless drivel without much backing it up.
Oh, btw, Fireinthehole, your poll at the top of this page:
http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?...
Is unfairly slanted language wise, if that wasn't already pointed out to you. Your poll was:
Yes, Many
vs
No, No one
That wording leads to a direct slant to the former and aren't polar opposites, which is what a two option poll is supposed to cover. You should try again sometime and see what happens in an unslanted poll.
same with the frame data argument where they also called you out on it and you resorted to the lame hack the disk excuse.
Hey fireinthehole and Grimmjow316:
How about exhanging phone numbers so you guys can argue and call each other names like you're still high school instead of clogging up the forum with your pity arguments about who's the bigger dumbass.
P.S.: Was my comment a run-on sentence? fireinthehole...wanna take that one since you're such an expert in sentence corrections?
@137
"By the way fireinthehole.
Yes, people can say that using the "they don't win tournaments" argument is invalid. Why? because, scary thought I know, LOGIC DOES NOT CHANGE OVER TIME. It was an invalid then, and its an invalid now. Don't get angry now because now that you want to use flawed logic for your own (gains?) you can't. Two wrongs don't make a right, etc."
Thanks for your reply. It's good to see someone making a civilized arguement regardless of whether or not the argument's in agreement with me. Especially after taking care of some flaming stalker.
Now I reckon that you're trying to say that it's a logical fallacy to say that the fact that a certain character isn't winning much tournaments, so thus therefore the character can't be OP.
But the issue here is that to this very day, there are still HORDES of scrubs who still peddle forwards that arguement in order to say that SS4-Guile was not OP and that Cammy-TKCS was not broken.
Just take a look at this thread here:
http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?...
In the thread above, please look at posts #21, #37, and post #40. All those post in the thread above peddled forward the notion that SSF4-Guile wasn't OP because he didn't win many big tournaments.
And those posts were not from around a year back, nor were they from a month back. Matter of fact, those posts were all made by people just two days ago.
So ya see, the HYPOCRISY continues still to this very day. Now I'm not saying that you yourself are a hypocrit; but the fact remains that there are TONS of hypocrits out there who will peddle this argument when defending Guile and Cammy, but will then turn around and tell others that same argument can't be used to defend Yun.
@151 my bad that's what I get for overfeeding the troll.
Stupid?
Is exactly what happens when someone appears here and say: Yun is OP.
1 - The bad thing about this is: Hakan, Dan, and many others ar ignored.
2 - People complaning have chars like rog, guile, and many others good tier char, they don´t care if their char had advantages over most of the cast, but they do care if Yun have it, or they thing they have.
3 - If Yun is OP, like sagat was, then he would wins tourneys, just because he is not a competitive char, it makes sense:
Yun - 300 points damage of one hit
Rest of the cast - 100 points of damage og one hit
This is a ridiculos example of how people say that yun is OP, if this is true, then Yun should make the finals with no problems, after all, is more easy to play with him, he does not have bat match ups. If the example above was true, then anyone who lost with Yun is dumb and stupid, i mean, you just need 4 hits to win with almost all the cast. You do 3x times more damage in one hit, also 3 times more probability to win. How it is possible not to achieve victory with him?
What i think that is stupid is when people cry about yun, complain about it like it is the end of the world. Why would you cry about it? If you are a pro players what matters is victory, no matter what. If you are a high level player, then you can defeat yun because you are good. If you are average, then again, there is no reason to complain, since someone average will lost with anyone in the cast played by a player more skilled than him.
And funny is: all the complains are a mix of these players.
Yun is not the end of the world. The problem for me is that he truly isn't that fun to watch, or play against, at all, in any way. Winning or losing. That's just me though.
diddysinatra:
You think you are using logic? If Yun and Yang were overpowered they would be winning more tournaments or at least be in the top 3. They are not. At least not in the US. If Yun was winning every tournament by different players, then it would be easy to say he's overpowered. He is not.
Was Rufus overpowered in Super? He was statistically stronger than Yun is right now, by a mile.
You state that the twins have advantages over 35 characters in the game. Then list each character per line - lots of logic there. But what are you basing these matchups on? Show your "logical" list. Anyone can "say" that Yun and Yang have no bad matchups, but that doesn't make it so.
As for personal insults: i happen to think you are an idiot, and it's not a personal thing. It's just the way you think that the statements you wrote follow some form of logic.
If Yun starts winning and placing top 3 tournament after tournament, then maybe he is overpowered. If he does not, then Yun is not overpowered. That is common sense.
Tournaments count because people are playing to win. Just because a few players - aka daigo/kazunoko/etc - are very strong, doesn't make the character overpowered. If the tournament results keep showing up without Yun or Yang in the top three - then while they might be strong; they surely are not overpowered.
@156
You make an excellent point when you said this:
"2 - People complaning have chars like rog, guile, and many others good tier char, they don´t care if their char had advantages over most of the cast, but they do care if Yun have it, or they thing they have."
The one thing you should add to that point is that many of these players are very manipulative as well. They don't care about fairness at all so long as they get what they want.
The reason why I say that's such an excellent point is because I had to deal with both a Balrog player and a Guile player just recently. And both of those people have tried to be very manipulative when discussing the issue of balance over the net. These guys are not down for a legitimate discussion at all.
This thread was closed down because this ScytheWP guy made out of line comments about how he wished he could reach across the computer screen and beat people to death and because he spammed the thread with a non-sense image: http://forums.eventhubs.com/viewtopic...
This ScytheWP guy, who purposely spammed the thread to provoke the mods to lock it up because he was losing in an argument, is a Balrog player.
Also, check out this MasterOfEnts guy (Guile player) on this thread here: http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?...
In post #27, I gave a long detailed list of reasons for why I felt that SSF4-Guile was too OP. But in post #40, this guy clearly cherry-picked my post in order to distort what I was orginally saying. I called him out for doing that in post #54.
Now if he was purposely cherry-picking my posts in attempt to distort the messages that I was trying to convey, then that should tell you that his arguments were all gutter-trash.
Point by point:
1. Yes, I am using logic.
2. No, overpowered does not mean winning most tournaments or top 3.
3. Rufus? No clue, but he was at least fun to play against. I was never in that conversation to weigh the points.
4. And once again, you love to skew what I say to fit whatever it is you're thinking. I did not list over 35 characters, I listed 35 exactly. 39 characters in the game, I didn't list Yun, Yang, Zangief, or Fei Long, so that math that you obviously cant do leads to 35 exactly. I never said he has no bad matchups. I said that those in the list were 50/50 OR better, not all in his advantage. And then in a subsequent post pointed out that it was an estimation that would not be fount to be that far off.
5. F*ck you very much as well. If you knew how to read with objective eyes, you'd see the logic. You just don't want to see it. Or cant. Maybe you're a blind savant with blind spots? That doesn't even make sense.
6. If he starts winning tournament after tournament, that doesn't mean he's overpowered.
7. Tournaments do count, but the metagame and anti-character strategies cannot be dismissed as easily as you are dismissing it.
You clearly don't even know what logic is.
all you guys arguing need to get a life. Jesus Christ, it's a frickin game.
i remember how ppl used to cry about rufus being op(sf4). real talk only ppl crying about the twins are guile users and ppl that turtle,zone and play lame all day. imo i know the twins have the tools to win but i rather them being top, then lame boring as guile or sagats.
as for me my mains are dudley, makoto and vega. i dnt really complain about the twins, the more twins i play the more i can get a better look into them.
Shotos stay free and salty
Overpowered, meaning having too much power.
Broken, meaning having power to the point of utter unfairness.
A broken character is one that always wins or places high in tournaments, no matter how well you plan. An overpowered character is one that people have to specifically plan against to defeat.
You see, there is a difference.
@151
Fine. I'll just make one last comment to this stalker/secret-admirer of mine before letting this sh-t to rest.
to defeat and you have a greater chance if you do.*
So, NerfGuile, your fault lies in your understanding of the English language, and common sense for that matter.
@148
Baaahhhh. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Here you are once again. Talking like you're Mr. Bigshot, but you're only proving to the world that you are Mr. Incompetent.
I urge to please re-read post #148, your very own post. In that post, you claimed that I said that "the producers intentionally made Sagat OP and then in the very next paragraph you say he was more powerful than what they intended him to be."
Here once again, you have proven to the world that your reading comprehensional abilities are worse than that of an average 5th grader.
This was what I originally said: "Ono did not openly state that Vanilla-Sagat and SSF4-Guile were purposely made stronger, but that in itself does not serve as good proof that those two characters weren't OP. For all we know, capcom could've have intentionally made vanilla-Sagat and SSF4-Guile to be more OP than the rest of the cast but just kept it secret and not told anyone about it. We never know."
I never made the claim anywhere that the producers purposely made Sagat OP. In the first sentence, I clearly stated that "Ono did not openly state that Vanilla-Sagat and SSF4-Guile were purposely made stronger."
In the second sentence, I said that there was a possibility that "capcom could've have intentionally made vanilla-Sagat and SSF4-Guile to be more OP than the rest of the cast but just kept it secret and not told anyone about it. We never know."
Stating something as a hypothetical possibility is not the same thing as stating something to be a fact.
On top of that, the fact that you even made a post #148 shows how ignorant you are. You just randomly jumped into a discussion that was happening between me and someone else and started spewing your ignorant, BS comments when you didn't even know what the root of the discussion was.
If you didn't realize, the whole point of why I even made that quote in the first place was because many scrubs all over the net are pushing forwards the argument that: "Ono said that the Twins were intentionally made stronger, so therefore the Twins are the most broken characters in all of the SF4 games."
The whole point of the discussion was to prove that there are discrepencies between what the producers say about the games they make versus how those games actually play out.
You clearly didn't even understand the point of my words. The main point behind my words clearly centered around what the producers said and how the games actually played out.
This was what I wrote: "For example, PRODUCERS HAVE SAID that Vanilla-Sagat was much more powerful than they had intended for him to be."
Looks like you better read and understand the points of other people's posts before you start running in here and talking like your some sort of big shot.
@162
Another player who feels that SSF4-Guile was an OP piece of Sh-t.
So much for all the scrubs who claim that I'm "the only one" who think that SSF4-Guile was extremely OP.
On that point I would agree with you Fireinthehole. Many of the issues here could be prevented if people would just take the time to read what others write to understand the point the writer is ACTUALLY trying to get across. Not the one the person sort of gleaned from it after reading a sentence or two.
@169
I sort of disagree. I think he looks like a grade A douche when he plays with his shades on. LOL.
@fireinthehole
I agree with you, but only into some extent (which means i don´t agree with the insults, this is not the way, even if you do not start the insults)
Yes, i already looked to 3 of the threads you created, this guile player gave his opinion, matter of fact, if he is protecting guile, i could say the same for you protecting Yun, so it is a infinite loop argument, ScythWP did not accept your post and did take matters, which was not cool, but this guile player have a point also.
I will give you a example:
I am discussing with one Bison player, i am saying that Bison is OP, he does not agree with my opinion, but what make me think that Bison is OP? My personal experience against him and how i feel seeing Bison in stream tourneys, which makes my opinion not the absolute true, but a opinion, then, even if he disagrees with me, i would accept his point of view. This is also exactly what diddysinatra are saying, because he does not like Yun at all
So when a conversation is about something that you see like X and other people see like Y, nobody will win. It will only create ridiculos conversation and sometimes funny talk.
PS: fireinthehole, what i do not agree with your actions is when you put your argument like it is the very truth, without accepting opinions, people felt this, believe me, i studied psychology, people do not like when you reject all their arguments or opinions. Even if you think that guile is OP, it is your right, so guile players also have right to protect their char, so at least, don´t throw opinions to trash when you disagree (even if they do this), instead, accept opinions and disagree with logic and give your imput. For example, i do not agree with all your thinking about SSF4 Guile (is U2 for example, because U1 Honda could anti-air and also pass through fireball if timed, now it pass normally) but i accept it, but disagree, since U2 guile is nothing compared to other Ultras.
In the end, it is your decision in how to act, mine it is just giving what is proved to be a better way, but not easy to act like it.
PEACE ;)
What i am trying to understand is where in the hell in the data Yun is OVERPOWERED. It does not make sense.
OVERPOWERED = Dominance, supremacy
So it means that Yun can dominate all the cast, he his the supreme char, so one more time, for Yun OP defenders. where is the real data?
diddysinatra:
Then, like all the people, you are putting yours personal fellings here.
If Yun would won 10 tournament major and also all the ten Yun were from different player (which doesn not include Daigo the Beast) then i would accept that Yun was overpowered, but even so that would not bore me and make me sad, or make me angry, i would play the game with pleasure. Also, if that happened, I already know that many people would complain even more harder, because they have logical proof, however, without this, it is just about:
- Yun is OP.
- "Why"?
- Because he is, i think his moves are too much safe, i don´t like him, he won tourneys, he is a S tier, and i can´t win against him.
This example shows what personal feelings are about. I can say with 1000% that Gouken hadoken have better recovery tha ryu´s hadoken, that is logical, the frame data proves it, however if i say that ryu´s hadoken is better because i can control the speed of the hadoken, istead of trajetory control of gouken, then this is my personal opinion for personal reasons.
Logical Vs Emotional logic, there is a difference, what it is happening here is emotional logic, without a doubt.
Anyway, i will rest for now, this type of conversation goes nowwhere and you also Know it.
PEACE ;)
end of the day you don't accomplish anything by reposting the same thing over and over it doesn't level up anyones game so instead of being "concerned" about others just move on later.
You see, your example makes sense, but not completely. In my arguments above, I was not putting my emotional problems with him in there.
If you're referring to just this area:
"Yun is not the end of the world. The problem for me is that he truly isn't that fun to watch, or play against, at all, in any way. Winning or losing. That's just me though."
That was me stating my personal problems with him, but that is separate from my other arguments. The stuff I wrote there does not make or contribute at all to his overpoweredness (that's not a word). Since, as you said, that's just my personal opinion.
Outside of that one post, I was making objective points that no one has actually addressed, probably because they couldn't. Is it not the truth that many of his options are safe? I never said "too safe" that is indeed a value/emotional statement. I said they can play it so that most things they do are safe. That's different, and no emotional logic is involved there.
diddysinatra:
I was reffering to just that area:
"Yun is not the end of the world. The problem for me is that he truly isn't that fun to watch, or play against, at all, in any way. Winning or losing. That's just me though."
Every char in the game made you feel something, this is human nature, if you don´t like a char, it will influence your opinion in the negative side. I did not say like something emotional is something bad, you said "ins´t that fun to what" - this for example is a emotion - boredom, at least it is the first emotion that comes to mind.
I do not like to transform this in some kind of psychology, so i will not extent this, and this is why i wrote little and enough to ilustrate my point.
Good point there, what you said are logic. But i will said what you did:
- I appear here and say: Balrog options are safe.
This is vague, is open to interpretation, don´t you agree? But anyway, like i said, good point there.
Anyway, you said: "Is it not the truth that many of his options are safe?"
- I don´t totally agree. Shoulder and lung punch are punishble in block (if a char doesnt have the option to punish, it is their problem, since i can punish even with dan), also, dive kick can be avoided, like the grab move. the palm is the real problem, high damage, are safe in distance, since the user can even fake palm. Also dive kick make great pressure, which make the wrong counter move and timing and you will eat a combo. Also, he have some nice hitbox for some normals, but he is not the only one.
So i accept and also agree partiallly with what you said. Maybe the part i disagree is because he seems like he is the only one who can do safe moves, even dan can do safe moves.
There is a trick here - » Play
It is a interesting word, because daigo ryu played safe, as many top players and pros like to do, safe moves. But instead of me talking, could you say what these safe moves are?
Yet another tourney where a Yun didnt win or finish in the top 5... lol
Yes Yun is very strong.. But if he was "OVERPOWERED" Yuns would be winning EVERYTHING, and there not.
I do think Yun needs at least 1 nerf(increase recovery frames on his dash pucnsh), but im not crying about him all over the internet like most seem to be. I dont think the twins are that much of a problem(online). Im more bothered about people being able to turtle with boring characters like Ryu n Guile and win with relative ease without actually attacking.
If you want some actual data on AE tournament results worldwide :
1 : Yun (77)
2 : Akuma (56)
3 : Sagat (49)
4 : Viper (42)
5 : Yang (39)
6 : Makoto (38)
7 : Dictator (34)
8 : Guile (30)
9 : Blanka (26)
10 : Rufus (26)
For the details :
http://curryallergy.blogspot.com/2011...
Just one trick in what you said there:
"I can punish, even with Dan" That would be making the assumption that Dan is one of the worst characters, if not the worst character in the game. But he is far from it, so that doesn't work.
But If you're coming from the angle that he's the poster boy "average character," in AE, that's pretty close to being true in my opinion, and I'm sure many others would agree. IF you were stating that if the average character can do it, from there out its a character issue, I can buy that argument. If Dan isn't the average, insert the average character here, and if they can punish them, it works then too.
I never made mention of "safe moves" at all, even though your question and statements before the question make it seem as if I had. I'm not sure specifically what his safe moves are, and never claimed to know, but when played a certain way, he has options in most situations. More than the average character. That is what I call "safe." He can be played especially safe compared to other characters, because he has so many options. "Options" though, the word I used, is indeed a vague word, and its vague on purpose to place a veil over my ignorance. My apologies. My character knowledge isn't deep enough yet.
He has a command grab, numerous target combos, three angled dive kicks, shoulder barge, lunge punch, a projectile with a faint, and up kicks/shoryuken. I mean, whats missing? The only other generally shared attribute that he doesn't have is a teleport...is that it?
To me, he is the definition of a "safe character" because he doesn't have to worry too much about who he's facing. He doesn't have to cover for a big area of his gameplay he doesn't have an inherent answer for. It seems like he has an answer for most everything except for concentrated high damage characters, because they need to get in so few times to kill him.
Its his abundance of options and lack of big flaws that makes him feel overpowered.
..My final opinion..
Its no crime to be a generally safe character choice. It's not a crime to have options. I guess I'm just jealous of those who would use a character who is so carefree. Seems like there's no honor, so I don't see how people get joy of that. I'm drawn to characters that end up having to work hard for their wins, and having a character around that's so comparatively godlike rubs me the wrong way. Maybe he's not overpowered. Maybe he's just a very well rounded character, surrounded by others with flaws we've all been staring at too hard for too long.
@179 And most of them are small unoticed tourneys. As far as im aware, there havent been that many Yun's winning big tourneys.
And id rather it be Yun than a boring firball character. Personally, i often find the firball characters boring to watch. At least with the soo called "top tiers" Yun, Yang, Fei and Makoto, you have to get in there face, and cant hide behind boring fireball zoning
Bison, Cyclops, Rogue, Cable
uhhh and Elena, just to bring her back.
Just put everyone in that's been in there before (rebalanced) and I will be happy. Some of the choices capcom made were asinine and I really do wonder how they went about making them. I know marvel has a strong hand for the marvel side, but the capcom side should have read like a list of old favorites + new comers, and instead we got whatever.
I also like CAPTAIN COMMANDO.
Mr SNK is going to get blown up at SBO... Should've been Mike Ross and Latif
@#185
He said command grab at the beginning of paragraph 4
@#181
Having alot of options on paper doesnt mean much. you gotta look at it from a more Quality vs quantity view point.
In paragraph 3 you said you never mentioned of "safe moves" Mentions of being vague on purpose, which leaves it open to interpretation. And then in paragraph 5 you then state your definition of a "safe character" While isnt exactly the same word for word, implication is there. The way you are wording things seems to intentionally confuse people which leaves you a backdoor to sneak out of any confrontation someone may pose.
Now back to the quality of the options compared to how much there is. Cause on a simple front there are other characters around that have as many or more options than Yun on paper. examples!
Akuma: has real projectiles, teleport, SRK, demonflip which carries its own divekick/command throw/armor breaker/low attack, tatsu, normal dive kick. See how much akuma can have? yet even with all that he still have problems and he have more options than Yun on paper.
Guy: elbow drop with some control options, should charge, spinning up kicks, Command throw from bushin flip or izuna drop in air, target combos, Ex run with armor+ projectile invin slide or overhead, wall jump... see yet another character with more options than yun doesnt make guy a safe character choice to pick with so many things.
I could go on but shouldnt clutter this up anymore. Point being you shouldnt view how many options a character have towards effectiveness. Seeing how there are characters with little but very good options are effective. Yun doesnt have an answer for everything as it may seem to you, nor is he a carefree character that doesnt have to work for wins. As it was apparent with the Yun bandwagoners in this tounrnament. They showed a big lack of experience playing yun, while they may have known the combos they didnt know WHERE to use them.
As many times they opted to trying and use the C.Mp combos not knowing they was outta range most of the times to connect it properly... and should have linked into C.MK into lunge punch/shoulder to regain proper spacing. Also they poorly spaced other things which got them punished harshly. Simple things like that showed they didnt get to fight much with Yun before putting him into a tournament setting.
@#188
wrong comment section???
@#191
Maybe if capcom didnt put their boot down his throat the few remaining players that did like him would still be here. Also RSF is still a pain to do consistently and even harder to get going in a tournament setting, which kinda removes his usefulness in anyone attempting to pick him up. TOO MUCH EFFORT.
@191 Good! Fuerte and his spam tactics should be left to be forgetten about. IMO he's one of the worse characater designs to have appeared any SF
@powderedtoastman
I don't think you understood the point of what I was saying, and you also butted into the end of the conversation, and didn't take anything I said into its context. So let me clarify my words.
the "safe moves" part was more of a poke at the comment I was referencing as it was a straw man. A straw man is a method subtly changing the wording so that you're talking about something else and beat that up, making it seem like you're still beating on the original idea, but you're really not.
the "vague" part was me admitting that using the word "options" is vague, and for the reason that I outlined there. What I wrote is pretty clear, did you not understand it? Or if you could show me the confusing part so I can clarify it for you? Although after re-reading it I still can't see the confusing part.
I was intending to be as clear as possible, then again it was 5 in the morning and my eyes were closing, so maybe that had an effect. The real bottom line is, that there aren't many holes in what I finally said. Its not a fault of mine because I don't leave open ends as often as everyone else does. Take it as a back door all you want (but I still don't see how). EXPLAIN! lol
Lol funny every tournament people cry about Yun, even though we've had like 8 majors now without any Yun dominance.
I think it's because these new people are from the WoW generation, they're used to player skill being 2nd to balance, because they play games like WoW and LoL that are more about your character and less about your skill.
@#199
i may had butted in, but the post i responded too didnt have any name or number of reference in the beginning like most posts have. So excuse me for not being able to fully grasp your original context. Also i directed most of my post based on your opinion on Yun.
Im not sure if you are trying to be slick or not, but that second paragraph of yours is what i was talking about. Didnt say i was confused or anything was referencing your wording.
Anywho my post was for your opinion about Yun position in this game. What you and the others were talking about isnt too much of a concern as this thread turn into a giant cesspool of ousrnglmerijgesthyrj.
@diddysinatra
This is what i said in the other post, you used one vague word, and if anyone make a interpretation, then you clarify what you said. You didn´t say "Safe moves"? but then you say: "He has a command grab, numerous target combos, three angled dive kicks, shoulder barge, lunge punch, a projectile with a faint, and up kicks/shoryuken. I mean, whats missing? The only other generally shared attribute that he doesn't have is a teleport...is that it? " - yeah, defining safe moves, but ok, i will try to not comment your vague words, but you made a nice comment by the way, i understand you concept of "safe char", even if i don´t buy that ideia.
I subscrib everything that powderedtoastman says about other chars having the same or more options than yun like akuma, seth and guy, and you can put dudley there, because he have a lot of options and 8 target combos that some of them can link into each other. Man, Fei long can take 400 damage with one bar - Chicken wing »s.HP » EX Flame Kick.
Another word is "options". One more time, you said what options are for you, but you continued to be vague. What are the normal average options of a char? Because we need to define this, before saying that Yun is a safe char.
Btw, I used the word "safe move" for a reason, i didn´t use "safe specials" "safe ultra", this was not vague:
Safe move: this means that you can do moves or combinations of moves that "can" make you char safe, for example, hadoken can be punished, but daigo uses hadoken anyway because he knows the right spacing to not be punished constantly and be able do SRK anyone that jumps, which makes this move safe. Everything you do in a game requires moviment, so SAFE MOVE is something that every char as, name one that don´t have safe moves.
Yun has unsafe moves, but well used, he can bait and punish you badly, there are Yun players in Japan that are so good with him, that i saw people say that all Yun moves are safe - this not make sense, every top players should make safe moves in order to avoid be punish constantly.
In the end, you said your opinion most in a clearly way,but my impression is that you consider Yun safe just because he appears to be "safe char" (you will say something about this). I can agree he is a good pick to try to compete in a tourney, but he is not so "safe char", so this is the thing i do not agree. I can also write here what for me options are and why he is not so safe, he as good options, between one of the best btw.
@diddysinatra
About Dan, yeah, he is one of the worst chars, if not the worst in vanilla, also the tier list can confirm it and capcom said that he was a joke char, he has tools to fight, but have to make much more effort and mind game to win. He continued to be a F tier char in SSF4, so i don´t think he is average. If he was average, then this game achieved great balance. We will see his position in AE. Dan lucky was the introdution of hakan and makoto, but makoto is not the same anymore...btw, a real good player can take Dan and achieve victory against Yun, Yang, Fei, Sagat, Ken, but comparing his options, if anything, many tiers list done do agree that he is the char with less advanteges and definitely i can say he is one of the worst, as you can say that Yun is OP, if not the best char (since he seems to you OP).
Btw, i use asumptions some times, there is a reason to it, it makes you define your words or continue to be vague, but at least, i am defining things if nothing is said.
Like i said before, we are discussing personnal things here, and not real data or real facts (not all the time btw). This is why i can write that Dan is OP and shows you some clips where the so called best Japanese players get beaten by Dan. But in the end, this will not be enough proof, because you will say that he is not OP and shows me clips where he is being beaten badly by top and not so top players. Then the discussion will be infinite. Just for examples.
PEACE ;)
@198 Fuerte was turd(as a character design), and Capcom realised it, so they nerfed him to reduce the amount of Fuerte users. Fuerte is all about getting a knockdown, then spamming splash or grab. I hate everything about him, and hate to watch even pro's use him.
I think Yun is...................it must be so good having this much free time to formulate an opinion on a video game character. I love this site but seriously WHAT A FN FAIL PEOPLE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiYfSq...
MDR Kumite.
I haven't watched this whole 2 hour video yet.
^^^^
Just skimmed through portions of the video and it showed that MDR, one of Japan's best Yun, just lost to 2 Dhalsims and lost to a Honda as well. So much for all the people making excuses for why Champ lost to Julio and those also making excuse for why Ross got eliminated by kindevu.
STFU TALKING ABOUT YUN - YOU INVEST SO MUCH TIME WRITING GUTTER TRASH THAT NOBODY IN THE REAL WORLD GIVES A S88T ABOUT. LEAVE YOUR BEDROOM AND FIND SOME VAGINA PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEE
If that is true that's a shame that both Justin and Ricky jump into the Yun bandwagon.