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Chun, Fuerte, Sakura, Cody, Guile, M. Bison AE changes

Posted by Jonathan 'Catalyst' Grey • January 31, 2011 at 5:35 p.m. PST
Chun, Fuerte, Sakura, Cody, Guile, M. Bison AE changes The Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition developers have detailed some of the changes to Chun-Li, El Fuerte, Sakura, Cody, Guile and M. Bison on their blog.

For those of you not familiar with them, the red rectangles on the characters represent the area they can strike another player with, and the green is a representation of their hittable regions.

A partial translation of this entry is available below, hit the link to look over it.

Chun-Li


Changes were made to the hittable area of Chun-Li's Focus Attack, the image below shows the new region where she can absorb an attack.

Also, her Down-Toward + Light Kick move now has a 12 frame start up (used to be 10), and it has a slightly larger hittable box.

El Fuerte


The damage on El Fuerte's Ultra 2 was reduced. Previously this move took off 500 damage, but in Arcade Edition this has been dropped down to 450. Here's a lifebar comparison for Yun, top would be the damage this would have done in SSF4 (if Yun was in it) and the bottom is what it currently does in SSF4 Arcade Edition.


Also, Fuerte's Ultra 2 is a little slower, and it now starts up in 4 frames instead of 3.

Sakura


Here are how the new hitbox for Sakura's Standing Medium Kick looks in Arcade Edition. Crouching Hard Punch's hit box is also pictured below.


Her vulnerable hit box on Far Standing Medium Kick was reduced.

Cody


Cody's Crouching Light Kick had its frame properties changed. It now has a 3 frame start up in Arcade Edition, it was 4 frames in SSF4. This is a fast move with a long reach. Here's how the hit box looks.

Guile


Guile's Ultra 2, Sonic Hurricane had its damage reduced from 420 down to 300, also the start up time on the move was increase from 8 to 10, making it even slower. Here's the amount of life this move took off on Ryu, Chocolate SSF4 on the top, SSF4 Arcade Edition on the bottom.


M. Bison


Bison's Standing Hard Kick was changed, and depending on where his legs connects with the opponent at, it does varying damage. At the tip of the leg it does 80 damage, but the rest of his leg will take off 110 damage. Here's an illustration.


Note the two red hit boxes, the one near the end of his leg is the box that takes off less health.


Also, Bison's Crouching Light Kick had its hittable box increased, it now extends almost the entire foot, here's how the move looks now in Arcade Edition.

Next week's entry will be about E. Honda, Gouken, Rose, Ibuki, Seth and Akuma.

Source: Japanese SSF4 blog. Tip from CrimsonClaw.

Comments

Dugi said on January 31, 2011 at 5:43 p.m.

Whoa Guile's U2 already did so little.

#1
Obelisk said on January 31, 2011 at 5:43 p.m.

Woah, harsh damage nerf on Guile. But where's the explanation for Bison's Ultra II? Wasn't it changed to a charge motion with 3x punch?

#2
Jakulagi said on January 31, 2011 at 5:43 p.m.

wtf? guile got raped!

#3
theonlydalauansparrow said on January 31, 2011 at 5:44 p.m.

ummm wheres codys hit box data?

#4
Sakura said on January 31, 2011 at 5:45 p.m.

My crouching Fierce was already "A solid anti-air"

where's my Otoshi overhead!?

#5
gtfopanda said on January 31, 2011 at 5:48 p.m.

Was Sakura cr.HP vulnerable hitbox extended? I don't know about the SSF4 one...

#6
terror said on January 31, 2011 at 5:49 p.m.

haha guile users

#7
MAXOUT12 said on January 31, 2011 at 5:51 p.m.

ok im a elf player and let me be the first to say wtf for guile i mean what the hell man us elf players knew that we would be getting a nerf from like the moment ssf came out but we lost like what 50 points we land any of our throws we get that damage back no prob. guile you know the character who has the harder to pull off ultra gets what he gets over 100 points reduction and slower start up time the hell by the way no mention of elfs start up slowing? i don't even play guile hell i cant really play as any charge characters but that... that sucks for guile

#8
Cinderkin said on January 31, 2011 at 5:51 p.m.

Where is Cody?

#9
TwoCoins said on January 31, 2011 at 5:51 p.m.

Well looks like jumping on Sakura is gonna be tougher nownow... trouble to jump on her and now toruble to safe jump infront of her...

#10
Aftermath1349 said on January 31, 2011 at 5:53 p.m.

They nerfed Guile's Sonic Hurricane (which wasn't OP at all) to hell but they barely touch Fuerte's ultra 2 (which is disgustingly strong)? Huh?

Yes, I do realize Guile is a better character than Fuerte and needed a couple nerfs (I play Dudley so believe me, I know lol) but despite being a low-mid/low tier character Fuerte doesn't need a free win ultra in terms of damage output.

#11
SimSimIV said on January 31, 2011 at 5:54 p.m.

@Sakura: Checked the hitboxes from super, and her crouching FP is excactly the same as that picture! Her standing mk is buffed though!

#12
KanyeWest said on January 31, 2011 at 5:55 p.m.

Who uses ultras as Guile.

The real nerf was airthrow.

#13
BisonBetterBeGoodInSSF4 said on January 31, 2011 at 5:55 p.m.

poor Guile players. this is what happens when you have noobies to a SF game. oh well i'll play Bison all day long even if his boot does 80 damg and his knee does 110. only 30 damg off anyways, as long as its a decnt AA im happy. btw ive never been good at frame/hitbox data. is Bisons Cr. short better over all or worse?

#14
SimSimIV said on January 31, 2011 at 5:58 p.m.

@BisonBetter: It is way.. way worse:o

#15
BisonBetterBeGoodInSSF4 said on January 31, 2011 at 5:58 p.m.

wait i did some looking and the red part is what will hit the opponent and the green part is what will hit you. now if Bison cr. short red box got bigger than that means it will hit opponents who are slightly further? so its better right?

#16
gtfopanda said on January 31, 2011 at 5:59 p.m.

Man, what the hell did they just do to Guile?

That's not even the only damage nerf he suffered (towards+HP and Flash Kicks got nerfed too), jeez.

#17
BisonBetterBeGoodInSSF4 said on January 31, 2011 at 5:59 p.m.

@16 oh ok then forget about comment #17.

thnx SimSimIV

#18
SimSimIV said on January 31, 2011 at 5:59 p.m.

His hitbox is the same, but his hurt box has been extended a lot, which means he will be stuffed and he will trade more. Not good for him!

#19
BisonBetterBeGoodInSSF4 said on January 31, 2011 at 6:01 p.m.

@20

its the same speed though right? start up is the same, so i can land my...oh wait his SK pushes you further back now -_-

damn you kids!!!!

#20
Jakulagi said on January 31, 2011 at 6:02 p.m.

buffs i like to see for cody...

less recovery time, less start up and a better hit box on Criminal Upper, more priority on Crack Kick, full body invincibility for Bingo Punch, more range and invincibility on U1 and 1 frame start up for U2 with a damage buff..

buffs i'd like to see of El Fuerte...

Full Screen U1 with 1 frame start up, full body invincibility on throw follow up variation from run, and more range on U2 with a damage buff to 600..

#21
umad said on January 31, 2011 at 6:02 p.m.

hell yea go sakura.

#22
Dark_Fantom said on January 31, 2011 at 6:03 p.m.

Oh no! Guile, one of the strongest characters in the game got a nerf, everyone cry! Cmon, sure it was a big nerf but A) That ultra isn't hard to land and B) He's so OP that even with the nerf he'll still be a solid character.

#23
SimSimIV said on January 31, 2011 at 6:04 p.m.

Which is why he is now low tier in the japanese players eyes:P

#24
BisonBetterBeGoodInSSF4 said on January 31, 2011 at 6:07 p.m.

@22

yea yea and Fuerte should also have an increase in health maybe 2000? oh and when he taunts you have unlimited Super and your U1/2 do 30 000 dmg

-_- your buffs are worse than the nerfs they gave him. yes buff him but dont give him anything stupid like that. U2 600? for real?

#25
BisonBetterBeGoodInSSF4 said on January 31, 2011 at 6:09 p.m.

@24

do you have any proof that Guile is OP? or are you just trolling? c'mon dude Guile was as hard to play as almost any other character. maybe the guys who were good with him, were good because theyve been playing Guile for a long time.

#26
DestinyZX1 said on January 31, 2011 at 6:10 p.m.

Guile's U2 doing less damage?! Wah!

I play with Guile and finding out about this is making me want to reconsider.

#27
Jakulagi said on January 31, 2011 at 6:16 p.m.

for guile's ultra, they should have just given him for recovery time and more start up.. reducing it to 300 is a slap in the face..

on a side note, Bison and Blanka should have no invincibility at all to any of their specials and all their moves should have an additional +20 frames on normals..

#28
MasterCheeze said on January 31, 2011 at 6:17 p.m.

Hmm, if AE is eventually made for DLC, I'll definitely have to consider using Guile anymore. I might go with DeeJay since he was like, one of the only charge characters to get pure buffs.

#29
efex23 said on January 31, 2011 at 6:19 p.m.

and dat douche called daigo put chun in c ... nothing was nerfed virtually

#30
SonicShot said on January 31, 2011 at 6:24 p.m.

Guile's ultra deserved a nerf, compare it's damage to other projectile Ultra's. 300 is too much, should have been down to about 350

#31
Guibbows said on January 31, 2011 at 6:25 p.m.

as a cody player, the only buffs i whanted to see was a betther hitbox for high ruffian (making it hit crouching oponnets ), crack kicks getting better ( at least comboing with full ex-criminal), faster walkpeed and bingo being faster start up and being trow invicible.

#32
SteadiestShark said on January 31, 2011 at 6:27 p.m.

Wow, I was looking forward to being able to use Guile again without the stigma...but damn, I don't know if I'll enjoy it with nerfs this bad. Hell, I might actually prefer vanilla Guile to this...

#33
JanTheMan said on January 31, 2011 at 6:32 p.m.

Can't w8 for Neapolitan SSF4 to hit the consoles...

#34
mndy said on January 31, 2011 at 6:33 p.m.

I think the Guile nerf was far too harsh, especially in tandem with all his other nerfs.

#35
KanyeWest said on January 31, 2011 at 6:35 p.m.

Seth nerfs were way too harsh, especially in tandem with tanden

#36
ChuckPlazma said on January 31, 2011 at 6:43 p.m.

@27 I have several reasons why guile is overpowered

1. He is a big grown arse man with the hitbox of chun li or sakura... yes he has a pixy hitbox

2. Less charge time and less recovery on sonic booms making his lp sonic boom almost un-punishable depending on who you are using

3. OUTSTANDING range,priority, and damage on normals and flaskick damage

4. Last but not least, VERY user friendly

So thats why he is getting a nerf.. for all out thunderjabbing- zoning and trolling people out there the age of cookie cutter ish is coming to a end, learn your links and do damage the way us non-'09ers have been for years.. WITH SKILL

#37
Her0 said on January 31, 2011 at 6:44 p.m.

Guile will still be solid. I don't agree with nerfing his ultra, but hey that's the way the cookie crumbles. I really think if they made his SB's somewhat punishable then it'd be fair for the rest of the cast. He recovers too fast. He should recover fast which means ur opponent has to be on their toes, but damn man. I jump his SB as soon as it comes out and still get AA'd. That's just stupid. You almost can't play footsies with him since he has a SB to stop u from pressing anything.

#38
Dark_Fantom said on January 31, 2011 at 6:49 p.m.

@38

Thanks

@27

What he said.

But lets add spammibility and a ridiculously good defensive game.......Over.Powered.

#39
SJDevs said on January 31, 2011 at 6:49 p.m.

Hopefully there are more changes to Sakura than that. I think her hadouken has a shorter startup time and travels the full screen.

Sure wish her Ultras would get a little damage buff.

#40
WinstonChurchill said on January 31, 2011 at 6:51 p.m.

lol @ bisons permanent smile

#41
yamisora said on January 31, 2011 at 6:58 p.m.

http://otersi.com/00_interesting_fram...

Pretty sure they didn't change Sakura's c.hp at all. It's a fine move so it's not really a problem, I just wonder why the posted a picture of it if it wasn't changed. As for her ultras, her U1 does 450 damage which is solid and her U2 does 329 (not 330 for some reason). It's relatively weak but most fireball ultras do that much or less damage, her U2 is strong because of it's versatility.

#42
SAMURAI said on January 31, 2011 at 7:04 p.m.

It makes me really mad to see Guile get nerfed like that. He wasn't overpowered.

#43
Drapoyo said on January 31, 2011 at 7:05 p.m.

Ii think if they nerf Guile u2 to only 300 with reduced startup, they should at least give it better juggle. They should make it connect fully(6hits) from FK FADC, trade hits, or peak jump anti-air FK. I think this would make more sense.
Look at Ryu, he can do all that with his U1, and his U1 still do more damage that guile U2. Why capcom doesn't allow Guile to do the same?
By giving better juggle U2, I think it can encourage Guile player to go for offense and gives them reward for being able to combo FK FADC U2 (which I heard it have stricter timing with new 10f startup).

#44
Grimmjow316 said on January 31, 2011 at 7:09 p.m.

As a gief main I hate guile so damn much but the only real nerfs I believe he needed was the damn air throw and forward fierce but everything else damn

#45
Mr_Clack said on January 31, 2011 at 7:15 p.m.

until the part about El Fuerte's slower startup is translated. This is not finished here on EventSCRUBS!
「エル・フォルテウルトラスパーク」に大きく調整が入りました。
発生が4Fと少し遅くなり発生直後の攻撃判定のサイズが縮小されています。
この技は持続が11Fあるのですが、
持続5F目以降は少しずつ攻撃判定のサイズが大きくなり、
最後の11F目ではスパIVと同様の攻撃判定のサイズとなります。
またダメージが450に調整されています。

#46
okay said on January 31, 2011 at 7:19 p.m.

Guile doesn't build meter like he used to either. Strawberry Guile is even worse than Vanilla Guile.

#47
BlankaBeast said on January 31, 2011 at 7:38 p.m.

@34 Vanilla Guile I feel is better than AE, I still play vanilla Guile(on PC).

He still has faster booms, but by now everyone knows how to deal with booms. Damage nerfs will hurt him the most since he doesnt have many mixups or creative ways to get the damage in.

I will take the 3 frame air throw and 120 dmg back knuckle over the sonic hurricane which is now more of a sonic summer breeze.

#48
BlankaBeast said on January 31, 2011 at 7:43 p.m.

Cant forget what 48 said either.

Guile got SONIC SLAPPED. Like really hard.

#49
mndy said on January 31, 2011 at 7:47 p.m.

#38

That's ridiculous.

1) His Sonic Booms have fast recovery because they do 50 damage and Guile gets crushed by option selects/general ambiguous rushdown, and SSF4 has so many ways around fireballs in general, that he needs that fast recovery. Guile is pure spacing and fundamentals, without the fast fireball, he would not have much and would just lose in fireball wars and have at best even matchups against most characters without a fireball because Guile's momentum would stop as soon as the other person gets ultra.

2) Guile has strong normals because his one reversal is a move that is a free ANYTHING on block, easily baited, and loses to a lot of crossups(Flash Kick, seriously, that is what, -33 on block?). His rushdown is all of 4 moves and he loses when being rushed down. He has no way out of the corner, which is a bad place for him to be. His ultras are situational and either do mediocre damage(U2) or are hard to combo into(U1). He needs those powerful normals.

3) Guile is as user-friendly as half the cast, if you define user-friendly as "not requiring much hard execution" and "having strong normals".

Finally, you think Guile is skilless because you can win with him on fundamentals alone? That is just wrong. Guile has been using his simple, fundamental playstyle since Super Turbo and I dare you to say he required no skill then. Guile is all about playing solidly the whole match, so that you can control everything that is happening, because if you don't, you lose. Dissing Guile because he doesn't need links to win is pretty much showing you don't understand Street Fighter. The beauty of this game is that you DON'T need links to win, you can compete if you have a good understanding of fundamentals. It is a game that brings all kinds of players together and lets them all have a shot, no matter what their strength, because there is a character for everyone and their character does not have to define them. See: Riceta vs Daigo at Canada Cup. He almost won against Daigo and never did anything over 2 inputs. With Blanka. Are you going to call Blanka OP?

#50
PropLeXed said on January 31, 2011 at 8:13 p.m.

Lmfao at Guiles U2

#51
cheameup said on January 31, 2011 at 8:16 p.m.

I am for nerfing guiles SB recovery time a bit but why nerf U2 ? weird choice

@51 I agree. many think a more old school play style is skill less . Most of my SF was played on SF2 and CE and I know I still mostly play that style but thats cool . I never FADC except the odd projectile absorb to mix it up and I burn my meter with ex moves but I brawl it out and win more than I lose .but then you get told your a scrub when you win . smart, simple play can often beats out flashy links and combos

#52
Mrb20028 said on January 31, 2011 at 8:22 p.m.

I am not really a Guile player at all, but the nerf is kinda harsh. It's not like it's the easiest Ultra to land either. But even skilled Guile players will get through it, unless of course they don't use U2 with Guile in the first place.

#53
BlankaBeast said on January 31, 2011 at 8:25 p.m.

Then...Sonic Hurricane...

Now:
Sonic Sprinkle?
Sonic Summer Breeze?
Sonic Shower?

I echo what 51 said, its a little something called discipline - he is a military man and you need to have and show DISCIPLINE in order to win with him. Control, and you cant crack. Basic. Military. Order. Guile is anti Chaos.

#54
lynx_ID said on January 31, 2011 at 8:35 p.m.

^^ ohh this guy really make me laugh, thanx dude for the military terminology, anyway guile deserve nerf (believe it or not guile players) but damn that was so bad, ok the air grab was bs and some of his normals do high damage, but nerfing that bad ultra 2? wow

why everybody hate el fuerte? he is the hell hard to use, good they dont nerf ultra 2 so bad xD, but the tortilla mmmm

#55
Dark_Fantom said on January 31, 2011 at 8:37 p.m.

@mndy

*Facepalm* + *Sigh*

1. LMAO, there is NOTHING bad to say about Guile's SB. You can't make any excuses for it.

2. "Guile has strong normals".....You're right, congrats. FK is an awesome move and since he spends all day throwing projectiles he has plenty of ex to FADC, other wise he can use it as an anti-air. And compared to a lot of the cast he's just fine in a corner. His U2, while I agree got OVER nerfed....is still not hard to land on a jumping opponent. U2 is also hard to land but is a good anti-air.

3. I don't even know how you can defend that. He's OBVIOUSLY one of the easier characters to use. Cmon.

I used to main Guile and I found he was too good.....made the game boring to use the same attacks over and over, so I switched to Vega.

#56
xShonuffx said on January 31, 2011 at 8:49 p.m.

#51
Not everyone has that kind of rushdown speed and option select variety over him. You can't look at your own character without looking at the rest of the cast as a whole.

And developers don't look at option select as a part of their system because it was encoded accidentally in the game logically and was never intended to be a primary skill in the game. You were to base your attacks on thought and execution only, nothing else; if you guess wrong you lose the decistion process. They are gonna nerf Guile and others on the very basis that he ended up being too powerful not because a bunch of scrubs cried nerf, thats what they have testers for.

#57
Rafael2487 said on January 31, 2011 at 8:52 p.m.

Chun should be nerfed and guile should be buffed.
The damage reduction of guiles ultra is uncalled for.
Feilong being top tier is really boring.
Next time i play online ill probably face
a bunch of feilong and yun army
The changes are so unfair.

#58
mndy said on January 31, 2011 at 8:57 p.m.

#57

Yeah, you don't like using the same attacks over and over, so... you switched to Vega, a character who is all about hit confirming cr. MP.

1) Yeah, I can. His Sonic Boom is good because once they get past it, he doesn't have a lot. And if the recovery time was worse he would get slaughtered in fireball wars, like in Vanilla. And it's hard for Guile to come back in those if he's losing.

2) No, Guile is not "fine" in the corner. What are you even talking about? How is Guile fine in the corner? He has no way out, all he can do is block and try to crouch tech or reversal, and against some characters it is practically a catch 22(like Rufus and Cammy). He cannot even FADC that much because now his meter gain was nerfed, meaning his reversal is that much more unsafe and he won't be able to EX boom so he is going to have an even harder time in matchups like against Dhalsim. Also, how bad is Flash Kick if the move is only a good reversal with 2 bars? That's awful.

3) Most charge characters are easy to use, because that is their thing. Most of them also have strong normals because they don't have the on-the-fly versatility of input characters. It's a dumb complaint.

Don't talk about the game if your arguments are going to be "you're wrong, because you are wrong" with no proper explanations. I don't even know why you would use numbered points, since you have none.

#59
Grimmjow316 said on January 31, 2011 at 9:01 p.m.

@59 your trolling aren't you

#60
mndy said on January 31, 2011 at 9:03 p.m.

#58

If that were true, why not remove option selects in AE? Option selects have been in SF for a long time, and they are a part of the system, like it or not. Same thing with kara moves and even combos.

And the Guile nerfs are too much. He lost a ton of damage on U2, the startup is slower, he got an all-around damage nerf in general, his meter gain is crippled, etc. Are you really going to say that he deserved to lose 100 damage off of his ultra, and damage on Flash Kicks, and even his Fierce attacks? They overdid it.

#61
lynx_ID said on January 31, 2011 at 9:03 p.m.

^^ so tell us who character is good in the corner?? and who character can easily come back if he is loosing and faceing a defensive character?

#62
mndy said on January 31, 2011 at 9:10 p.m.

#63

Akuma, Ryu, Sakura, and Ken can just air tatsu out(except in AE where Ryu and Akuma can't do it anymore but the others still can). Akuma can teleport out, too. Seth, Chun, Vega can get out by going off the wall. Adon, too. Bison has multiple options. At least half the cast has some way they can get out of the corner with relative ease. Guile doesn't, he just has to block and wait.

And most characters can come back more easily than Guile because they can combo into ultra way easier than Guile can(and the one ultra that Guile can combo into easily now does awful damage).

Guile is a solid character, but he is not OP just because you cannot mindlessly run at him from full screen.

#63
Grimmjow316 said on January 31, 2011 at 9:16 p.m.

Then look at the ones who really can't and guile can keep pinned down

#64
MrPFloyd said on January 31, 2011 at 9:22 p.m.

@57 LMAO found out he was too good and made the game boring. You sound like complete online warrior - real life scrub.

#65
RawVoltage said on January 31, 2011 at 9:23 p.m.

They pwnd Guile's ultra. o.o

#66
lynx_ID said on January 31, 2011 at 9:32 p.m.

not OP but one of top tier for sure, he deserves nerfs, I know ultra 2 was screwded but cmon dont put him like in low tier, guile players got nerfed and say guile never was good God!!

#67
Dark_Fantom said on January 31, 2011 at 9:51 p.m.

@MrPFloyd

Hehe, oh I'd love to play a match with you. Guess what? Throwing sonic booms and crouching all match IS BORING. But hey, since I'm such a scrub I'm sure you wouldn't mind playing me online? DarkFantom25, xbox. Send me a message whenever, scrub.

@mndy

Wow, I'm not gonna waste time trying to convince you that guile is OP, or top tier or advantaged or wtv else you want to call it. I'm not claiming this for AE, I'm claiming this for SSF4 and saying he deserves nerfs. Obviously you're a Guile fanatic, and just like nobody would ever change my mind about anything with Vega, I'm not gonna do anything with you and Guile.

#68
songman said on January 31, 2011 at 9:57 p.m.

Guile to me is weaker than Sf4. First this Ult 2 is weaker than most character supers :(. .. I dont think japing into Flash kick then FACD into utra 2 is even worth it now.. the damage scale will be huge. with the Low, mid, high flash kick damage was also Reduce. I really dont understand why soo many nerf to Guile. i mean Flash kick was so BAD in the first place. It TRADES or get STUFFED most of the times or completely Whiff.

No way to get out when get knock down. No cross up option. weak damage output. NOT sure if Air throw range was nerf or they put a hitable box on guile Sonic boom motion. these nerf are way to harsh. NOT a single Charge character is usable now They got neft bad!! " unless DEeJAY become better"

#69
mndy said on January 31, 2011 at 9:59 p.m.

#69

I don't even play Guile.
Also, if you're "not going to waste time" trying to convince me that Guile is OP or whatever, don't make a smarmy post acting like you know better.

#70
Hiakimaru said on January 31, 2011 at 10:02 p.m.

Fine... Guile u2 didnt need THAT HUGE AMOUNT of nerf, seriously and incrase his start up, holycow, wahtf*** capcom, now Elf U2 still ton of damage, and just one frame slower, Elf, if played right dont even need that stupid ultra,that most of noobs ELf players win matchs with it.
And now, the most important, for me, as a Sakura player, MK hitable box decreased, yeah , nice, better poke, always good, but crouch fierce already was and good AA, and as Sakura @6 said, WHERE'S OTOSHI OVERHEAD?
they dont even say about her fireballs, whatf***.

#71
OG said on January 31, 2011 at 10:16 p.m.

Love the Guile nerfs since it probably means I'll have to play less of them online in the future.

#72
BlankaBeast said on January 31, 2011 at 10:25 p.m.

Sonic Splash!

#73
Starcharger28 said on January 31, 2011 at 11:30 p.m.

Man,

Towards fierce damage reduction
Flash kick damage reduction
Air grab having 2 more frames of activation
sonic boom meter build up reduced by a factor of 4
now the sonic hurricane being reduced to a sonic shower...

I almost feel sorry for guile....

ALMOST!!!! hahaha

#74
Tomiwa11 said on February 1, 2011 at 12:36 a.m.

its fair enuff to complain about nerfs to ur character (i would do the same) but its really sad that people forget how balanced sf is and den wana change character because its too hard to win boo hoo - some of us hav been using low tiers like sakura since vanilla sf4 and stuck wiv our character anyway - choose the character u like and get beter with dem - its pathetic jus choosing the best/simplest character

#75
jinkokamen said on February 1, 2011 at 12:41 a.m.

harsh damage nerf on Guile ULTRA II. But where's the explanation for Bison's Ultra II?

CAPCOM F**K ..f
crazy Horse ONO

#76
mndy said on February 1, 2011 at 1:03 a.m.

#77

What do you mean? You mean the input change from QCFx2 to charge? I think it was to make it so Bison couldn't counter fireballs while walking forward.

#77
Saikobooru said on February 1, 2011 at 1:24 a.m.

Hooooooooooooly crap, the damage nerf on U2... LOL
I mean, I've seen some nerfs in the SFIV series, but this has to be one of the worst ones.
This officially makes Guile's super do more damage than U2, doesn't it?

#78
KenScrub said on February 1, 2011 at 1:39 a.m.

Awesome changes to Guile though he really needs more nerfs.

#79
Battlemage said on February 1, 2011 at 2:25 a.m.

CAPCOM can take away all his moves and I'll still bust @$$ with him!!

#80
jinkokamen said on February 1, 2011 at 2:30 a.m.

if you nerf to the damage already(ULTRA II GUILE)
I do not understand why
should also be nerf startup
OK You want a 300 but damege 'startup frame 3-5

I really do not understand how the hell have you done to increase
the damage to ultra II M. Bison (DICTATOR)

#81
mortal said on February 1, 2011 at 2:37 a.m.

@38, agreed with you but for "3) Guile is as user-friendly3"
..2LP 2MP is not user friendly :/
anyway, i'm going already back to U1 to punish SRK, i almost never have a chance to use U2 so.

#82
OgamiRei said on February 1, 2011 at 3:23 a.m.

Well I played Arcade Edition and I played a Guile player.
I'm not good w/ those frame data or whatever, but
Guile is still pretty solid even with all those nerfs....
as for Chun Li, her hitbox seems solid as well.
and her U2 takes more damage....

#83
ImmortalBison said on February 1, 2011 at 3:50 a.m.

LOL. A lot of these changes are just confusing. Was the intent to cripple charge characters? Are they really so hard to fight? I mean wtf... I never see Vega win tournaments. So why the unecessary damage nerf? Why the change from dqc 3p for Bison's ultra 2? So it's unusable for its purpose? So what if Bison had 1 mash friendly move? Too many of you fireball spammers complained? "Caaaaaapcom! Bison keeps punishing my firebaaaaalllllssss!" It wasn't even a good move, really. So what if Guile can compete? Well he's not a shoto so let's cut his balls off! LOL at Guile and Bison players who are saying "Well gee! I'll just have to twy extwa haad, but I'll still win!" "No you won't Billy. No you won't." What's the problem with just buffing characters that suck? At any rate, Street fighter IV has run it's course for me.

#84
ChuckPlazma said on February 1, 2011 at 4:10 a.m.

@83 While that takes more skill to do that as a guile user that is still not super advance, as a matter of fact shotos(minus gouken) seth and cody combo off the same input and with Plinking its that much easier its not like its a 1frame link.... Also it isn't a necessary BnB

@Everyone defending guile
I like him just as much as you do but that don't excuse the fact that he OP.. I main cammy and I don't like her nerfs either but at the end of the day she had em coming... Like the rest of the top charge characters his normals did almost BnB type dmg depending on who they fighting and that's not skillful, guiles U2 still has VERY long active frames and has vanilla sonic boom recovery.. And no one mention the buffs on his normals

Oh yea whoever made that dumb ass comment about being simple is suppose to keep up with skill this aint smash bros.... Grow up

#85
Zenfluence said on February 1, 2011 at 6:49 a.m.

K...im not a Guile players but What "buffs on his normals"?? O you mean that one buff where his sobat goes over lows? Maybe because that one buff isn't worth mentioning. Cammy nerfs are not comparable because she got numerous normal enhancements AND she didn't get hit nearly as hard with nerfs.

From a totally neutral position, you either nerf the damage or the startup..not both or at the very least not over 100 points that's sad lol. Still it's not as ass as Rose's U2 so there's something. He doesn't look quite as bad as he was in Vanilla..close but not quite.

#86
deteknician said on February 1, 2011 at 8:30 a.m.

@mndy "I don't even know why you would use numbered points, since you have none." lol

Sonic boom change makes Guile more annoying to play for me and you. Those of you who hate fighting Guile will hate it even more because I'll need to throw out twice as many booms and play more turtle-y than before. Damage nerf on FK's is the dumbest change ever. Watch a good Guile play and tell me how many FK's they land in a round. Two? If the player is doing well and FK's are combo finishers. I don't think any character in chocolate was OP.

You will see less Guiles. But the ones you see will be more annoying and harder to beat since you won't know the matchup as well. Sonic boom x infinity

#87
deteknician said on February 1, 2011 at 8:32 a.m.

@86: it IS a one frame link, pretty much ALL of Guiles links are 1 frame. Your future comments on Guile are from now on disregarded as you've proven yourself to know nothing about the character.

#88
Dark_Fantom said on February 1, 2011 at 8:53 a.m.

@85

I hear ya. Well charge characters (except Vega) tended to be strongest in SSF4 (Bison, chun, guile, honda....all top tier) so I suppose they decided something had to be done. Ya that'd be cool, if they just buffed the lower characters that way there'd be less complaining. Doesn't matter to me really 'cause i'll be on MVC3 in 2 weeks and I can't play AE anyways.

#89
BisonBetterBeGoodInSSF4 said on February 1, 2011 at 10:55 a.m.

@69
OP and Top Teir are 2 totally different thing new comer. OP is what Gill in 3rd strike or Akuma was in SSF2T. every game has top teir, other wise your probably playing a golf game. Guile is tope teir but OP? c'mon bro listen to the old school gamers and stop acting like your one of them. ive never heard of an old school gamer who uses OP as an excuse for someone who isnt.

@71

good stuff. id ont play Guile either and i cant tell you hes no where near OP lol. kids these days.

#90
ChuckPlazma said on February 1, 2011 at 11:51 a.m.

@89 anytime i can continuously hit a combo without plinking theres no way its one frame, or maybe its the fact you use 2 light punches instead of lk,lp,mp.... and are you talking about hitting it from a crouch position or standing?

#91
sonichun said on February 1, 2011 at 1:21 p.m.

Chun li is way too op, only in usa...

#92
Nelaelu said on February 1, 2011 at 3:44 p.m.

300 dmg for Sonic Hurricane? That's really REALLY LOW! I hope this decision won't KILL the move...

I'm not a big Guile or Sonic Hurricane fan, but it's nice top see VARIETY of ultras being used.

True, Sonic Hurricane is usually more useful than Flash Explosion (that's why most Guiles abandoned ultra 1 in SSF4), but it doesn't seem amazing enough to make it practically the weakest ultra in the game.

I thought 350, or maybe 330 would be big enough of a nerf, but 300?

#93
MadnessFamilyguile said on February 1, 2011 at 5:18 p.m.

I can't tell if some people are really bad, or are just trolling.

-Guiles sonic boom recovery is better in EVERY other sf game, stop crying.
-He got no buffs, upside down kick could already go over lows, i used it to go over akumas sweep the other day.
-He already did poor damage with very difficult combos, if they wanted to nerf damage they could atleats make it easier to land hits
-300 damage is just "Hey, dont play this character, or else"
-he wasnt overpowered in super, he had notorious weaknesses and bad matchups. The only way his weaknesses could be covered is by the player themself, thats why the only people who did well with guile in super were already good with him.
-Mvc3 is for anyone who got tired of this series catering to bad players

#94
ImmortalBison said on February 2, 2011 at 4:35 a.m.

@90 Amen. MVC3 for the win. See you in SFV, lol.

#95
ChuckPlazma said on February 2, 2011 at 5:28 a.m.

@95 you must be talking bout vanilla guile because supers guile at one point in time was qame and everyone has bad match ups in every fighting game.. Why do everyone want their character to have a answer for everything

#96
Arcade said on February 2, 2011 at 10:55 p.m.

Sakura hitbox for C.fierce is changed
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/94...
she can hit cross even better now lol! with that one pixel extend to the back lol funny tweak
as if she needed it!

#97
Sasuga said on February 3, 2011 at 6:22 a.m.

How did they figure out hitboxes on arcade machines..? Is there an option for that in the system config or anything..?

#98
SmoothJK said on June 6, 2011 at 7:06 a.m.

I'm a long-time Guile player (since the SF2 days), but I'll try to be somewhat unbiased here...

- "Guile is OP": In some ways, yes. In Super, I felt he did a lot of damage, and I was often surprised at how quickly I'd kill the opponent (especially after surviving the painful vanilla Guile period haha). But he still lacks a lot of options once people get in, which is why sonic boom's recovery is short to begin with...he needs to keep people out.

It's funny that people hold to the tier lists as some kind of bible or something, but I don't recall anyone winning major tournaments using Guile except Daigo vs. Mago as a counterpick to Fei (but hey, that's Daigo lol). No Guiles in the Top 8 at EVO. No Japanese Guiles dominating the scene. What happened?

- "Guile's nerfs are justified." I would agree that they needed to nerf his damage somewhat. Things like 120 to 100, etc. But 420 to 300? Ouch. The nerf that bothers me the most is the startup of U2 and the harshly reduced meter building. U2 was already getting harder to use in real matches cuz people were no longer idiots throwing out fireballs within range. As an anti-air, unless you practically predicted it, the opponent would typically land in time to block by the time the ultra came out in 8 frames (or they'd just tatsu over it anyway). Now, in 10 frames, it's going to take a highly telegraphed jump or obvious fireball to use U2 at all.

The meter building is a problem. Like I said, once someone gets in, Guile has very few options. At least in Super, I would normally have meter stocked to FK-FADC to stop the opponent's momentum, but now it's pretty much a block, wait, throw-tech passive game of "please don't kill me."

- "Guile is easy to play." Again, yes and no. Is it easy to do sonic booms? Well, yes it's easy to get them on the screen. Easy to execute a flash kick as well. But his U1 and super are somewhat awkward motions, and many of his combos require 1-frame links. You're in constant danger of a mashed reversal or even if you land the whole thing, it's not like it led to a lot of damage anyway. You have to zone properly and know your spacing. You need a lot of anticipation and need to stay focused since you can't just rush in and dictate the pace all the time.

Trust me, it's easy to spot a tier-whore Guile player. I can understand that the visual differences between a veteran Guile and a new one are subtle and hard to pick up...but I often find it hilarious when people pick Guile thinking it's a free win and I can basically read them like a book (or punish the double sweeps galore).

Is Guile the hardest player to play? No, of course not. But if that were the goal, we'd all be playing C. Viper or something. He's not super hard to play, but it does take skill to win. And now, it's going to take a little more luck as well, and dumb mistakes by the opponents.

#99
SmoothJK said on June 6, 2011 at 7:08 a.m.

Oh, and I forgot to mention the difficulty of consistently performing FK--> FADC-->U2 in real matches. Even the pros would miss it, so don't pretend like this was OP. If they wanted to make Guile a more fun, offensive character, they shouldn't have added 2 frames to U2 startup making this combo even harder. Is it even still possible or worth the meter?

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