Here on the EventHubs.com forums, Lynaken graciously translated a tier listing by Arcadia Magazine for Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition, which was created by Daigo Umehara, Mago and Tokido, some of Japan's top players.
here we go again... holy cow, Fei Long!! S Tier and bringing the fear.
in before ****storm
I hope people realize this is reeeeally early
@4
yea I just realized that
lolwuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut
There really aren't many surprises based on what we already knew about AE. Biggest surprise is Makoto; I'm sure everyone expected her to be good this time around, but top 10 good? Talk about a turn around, heh.
Biggest discrepancy is Chun-Li, since Daigo, Mago, and Tokido each have her in a different tier.
@4
Sorry, but I'd rather trust three top Japanese players over some random, angry Event Hubs commenter.
A lot of people think daigo has a horrible sense when it comes to tiers lists. Although it does make sense with these new lists. Vanilla used to be slow and defensive. SF4, especially with AE, is becoming much more offensively based. The rushdown characters are taking over.
Probably, but I find it very surprising that they feel Fei-Long is suddenly so much better when I remember reading mostly about the pointless nerfs he was getting. I'm guessing there must be some VERY good Fei players in Japan for him to be ranked that high.
Guys, think about it this way: It's GOOD that there are many debates on who is good and who isn't! That means the game is probably closer to balanced then ever. There are some characters that stand out more then others, but a good 20~+ of the cast can be mixed up in any order and debated HEAVILY! Consider this a God-send that you guys are questioning their judgment this much.
Hmm, E. Honda and Ryu that high? Hopefully they can keep up there.
Sakura not a low tier? What a Dream Come True :D
@15
Total removal of the invincibility on chicken wing particularly, I honestly find that questionable, then again I don't remember reading about any other nerfs. So you are right in that regard, I did hear he can use rekkas to go through fireballs, thought that was a pretty neat addition. Sounds like he's gotten a lot better, the only thing he seems to be lacking in my opinion is a reliable armor breaking attack.
Guys, the game has been out for a little over a month. This is obviously NOT a definitive tiers list, it's just based off their experience with the game so far. Granted, they're 3 of the best players in the world, but that doesn't mean their opinions can't change.
Hell, we haven't even gotten any big AE tournaments like SBO yet, so they may not have seen the best T.Hawk or Cody (just random examples) players yet who don't live in the same area (and by extension, don't play in the same arcades) as these guys. Jeez, would you guys relax and stop perpetuating the stereotype of an eventscrub?
April 2009, Seth Ranked #10 SF4
October 2009, Seth Ranked #8 SF4
February 2010, Seth Ranked #8 SF4
July 2010, Seth Ranked #11 SSF4
October 2010, Seth Ranked #12 SSF4
Now Seth barely breaks the B rank?
What the f--- capcom? >.>
You guys have to realize that this is the most balanced Street Fighter, so the characters on the bottom of this tier list are not "bad", they just aren't as good as the other characters. For example, T Hawk and Ibuki can both be played at high levels, even though they are at the bottom of this tier list. All these characters can compete with each other, which makes it such a balanced game.
You guys are living on the tier lists, and you're calling them retarded even though they've played AE much more than you guys.
Also, people need to realize that these are just opinions from other people, just like all other tier lists. They are not necessarily made to agree with your opinions.
These tiers are BS until the new characters are added.
I don't understand why they consider Fei-Long to be top-tier.
I know the character have awesome normals, focus attack, combos, anti-air etc.. He got tools for everything but his ultra sucks. In my opinion a top-tier character should also have a great ultras. Fei's ultra 1 does not allow full animation when done through FADC and it is hard to punish fireballs because of spacing, sometimes it won't connect. Also very hard to anti-air with it. I wish it had priority like Sagat's Ultra 1.
I don't understand why these tier lists even matter. Play as someone you like, practice, learn the match-ups, and have fun.
I had at least a little respect for Daigo before but now, I guess he's also prone to flaws. Chun in C tier?! Right... Chun has the advantage over the three characters they consider to be top (Yun, Yang and Fei). Fei's normal buffs haven't exactly eliminated his weakness against charge characters so I don't really see why he's "S" tier. Balrog also didn't get any significant nerfs and he's "B"?! Geez, some people have been smoking more than weed I'd say. Chun's nerfs in AE only included df+lk increased start-up and st.+mp -10 damage which aren't even game-changing. Hello?! As a Chun player, I've never actually used st.+mp to do damage but merely as a zoning tool for me to cancel into either kikouken, hazanshu or link hit-confirm super. All I've seen so far are videos of Yun and Yang since AE came out so I doubt that the so called top tier characters have faced the entire cast enough for these "top" players to state that they're that much stronger against the rest. Fei Long, "S" tier? Please....He's not even good enough to make it to "A" tier. I'll believe that once he's found a way to get around his charge character weakness.
@ 31 I know hes up in the listings now which means thanks to ae tweaks hes still plenty good and wont take me long to get my b rank and up back when they realese ae
So, if Blanka is that low, will people quit bitching about those who use him?
It'd be nice to not instantly feel like a bad guy just because I like his move set. And yes, I hate playing against him too. But I blame myself when I get beat, not the other person character choice.
As for Cody, I'm always surprised by people putting him so low. He seems to have an answer for everything. Loads of anti-air moves. High priority. Easy links. All his moves can break armor. The Easiest FADC-Ultra.
As a scrub, I F*&%ING HATE CODY!
Lol everybody knows evil Ryu is #1 lol I've been waiting n Im impressed. He I know he is n Wats funny he's so good it makes Ryu h8trs furious n I love that I love it. I know we all thought dudley was op but no. Evil Ryu is going to be top we don't have to wait for a list to notice we all know it.
#45
Cody lacks footsies, loses fireball wars, and is practically free on wakeup. He also lacks "comeback ability." He has some great tools and strong frametraps and normals, but he has significant flaws holding him back.
Cody is a good character, though.
What the heck? 2 months after release and they have this tier list compiled already? Are these players basing this off of battle points or something? Every time I see the list of bp points etc there is Fei, Yun, Makoto, ken and there is a single Gen player there.
I think it's still way too early to judge. Yeah Yun and Yang could be that good but players are still figuring things out with the rest of the cast.
Interesting that both players that gave input put so many in a clustered group. At least, according to them, no one seems to be low tier like Dan, Makoto, Hakan when SSF4 was released.
I still think Gen is underrated for the amount of work that players have invested in him as well as Guy. Sakura and Makoto jumped up big time. They both should be at least within B tier.
Tiers depend partially on the players. If you saw nagoya street battle you'll see that even though Fei is "S", a Fei Long player did not win the tourney.
Just like Tokido believes, Ryu's Rank(Tier) depended on Daigo.
I'm pretty sure Fei Long's tier really depends on strong players like Mago, since he is probably the strongest Fei in the world.
I would also assume that tiers are based on the tools each character has. Fei has some of the most useful tools in the game, such as escape chickenwing(EX), several option selects, good footsies, flamekick for anti-air.
If strong players play other characters and make them as strong as possible then they would probably go up the Tier list.
LOL! at Fei Long he's being the same ever since SFIV now everybody gonna act like he is cheap
@45
I tried using him. I HATE how slow his walk speed is. It's a dramatic change going from Bison to try and use Cody.
The good thing is that aside from the top like 8 characters the rest are basically on the same level.
I love how many people Dan beats. Hope it stays that way.
Whoever is wondering why Cody is bad, he has absolutely zero mobility, a bad backdash, and his only wake-up option is EXTREMELY slow. You might as well play Balrog if you want to play a character like Cody, but better in every way.
fei was already high in super, he dont need bufs in arcade, but he got, is like chun in vanilla, was high and then some buffs to super and top tier, and now is the case, fei long is looking very cheap now, people will defend but is the true, he is looking very cheap, and why daigo and the others put him in first place? I mean, they are pros they know, know more than most of people here saying he isnt that good
awsome! fei gets his well deserved spot on the top ^^ on a downside, i hate the fact dat guile is now very low :/
Poor Rose.
Gameplay changes screwed her over.
She's still solid midtier imo though. They put her low in regular Super, because there are no Japanese Rose players.
But losing one of her best tools would put her down, it wouldn't put her down all the way to bottom.
My mains were Chun Li, Ibuki, and Rose. It's pretty depressing to see Ibuki and Rose near the bottom, even if this game is balanced. Chun Li being disputed gives me some hope that they didn't just kill all of my mains.
I do like that Fei Long is top, Sakura moved up, and Viper and Makoto are high. I don't like that T. Hawk, Juri, Hakan, Gen, Guy, and Gouken are still really low.
Rufus sunk, too.
rose is also questionable with regards to tiers. her footsie game is as devastating as chunli an bison, the only thing is that she doesnt have a gud wake up game. an besides her U2 nerf NOTHING WAS CHANGED . so y the heck is she that low ? screw this tier listing
@ 39 & 67
I think that the fact that his focus attack is so damned good helps him land his otherwise crappy ultra.
Expect to see viper drop off that A tier in a few months.
so fei long might actually stand a chance now...i figured sagat ad bison would end up in the same tier as ryu...kinda shocked about t. hawk...he was up there before sheesh...let's go shadoloo!!! lol
Guile goes way up! Then Guile goes way down. I guess the japanese didn't like having an american character at the top of the tiers.(Don't get you panties all wenched up and start a flame war, it's a joke)
Nice to see Vega(claw) in the B tier, even though in the end that means he's going to end up at the lower end of c tier when the list is done, oh well
Well, all i have to say is Evil Ree-yu, im sure he will be above fei (i hope) lol. Even so, he looks to be something spectacular, and what makes me happy. Well, is the fact the Ryu h8trs are so bitter. Just that thought gives me joy to the acme. Evil Ree-yu's possibilies look so tasty, and im quite adept at this game so his stun n stamina when i play.....well to quote vegeta when on pui pui's planet about the gravity, "i don't even feel it" lol I know this just grinds the Ree-yu H8trs gears. All that whining about Ree-yu, time to shut up lol. GJ Capcom you guys finally did something smart lol.
I think they just pull names out of a hat when it comes to making tier lists.
Play characters that suit you on "execution level" and "strategy" and you will win a lot more.
Oh yeah, for those people who love to brand others as 'tier whores' need to STFU. If you spend £40/$60 your hard earned cash on a game, you can play who ever the F*** you want.
Overall, if you lose it's mostly down to you or a laggy connection and not the character.
i'm quitting ryu and learning fei long and the twins
Evil Ryu is Akuma without a Vortex or air firballs.... Who wants that? Just because he has Ryu in his name dosent make him anything special.
Tier list looks good and it really shows what type of game is AE. You can no longer just turtle it out and win you gotta fight now and thats probably why you see the top tiers that you do. Tier list will probably change alot over time outside of Fei Long I think.
I'm not trying to be smart or flame anyone but a lot of poeple are really sounding like tier sluts and crying because there making the game more offensive this time around which in my opinion is awesome because who wants to play a fighting game with the best people in the game being the most TROLL-ing in the game..... lets just wait till the update comes out, find the character for you, and go from there(not that it matters cuzz everyones going to run to the twins anyway for the first month)
Only problem with that argument is that a lot of the "true" offensive characters are still at or near the bottom. Don't kid yourself, this game is still about footsies. It just shifted from being about footsies and fireballs to footsies and pressure.
@4 unless you play AE constantly since release. STFU.
Tier list has always been like a billboard to me. I'll look at it and move on. I think the general idea to know which character is "top tier" is to use each character and how often you win with them (casually online or in arcades or tourneys) and how well you can execute their damaging combos.
i like people who admit they`re teir whores more than people who dont...wait let me rephrase that
i hate people who admit they`re teir whores less than those who dont...there much better.
guys seriously the list just came out, stop saying oh crap my character is nerfed now i gotta switch
thats being stupid on your part. wait until the DLC (if you cant play AE) and see how well you still do with your character. if he/she no longer fits your play style, or you just want to win then switch. but dont start whining now. that makes no sense. anyways i usually see more crying, but this time i think a lot of people have grown up and realized its just a game and just wanna have fun rather than troll about how the game is unfair because they cant win lol. good job EventHubs, im proud of you guys (for what its worth)...except you #4
@#4:
I think the only person trolling is you. Although I don't believe in the tier system, these people studies the game like it's part of their life. Just because you're bitter about your characters being on the bottom does not mean these people don't know what they're talking about. Oh yea, they also have TONS more credentials than you.
Nerf Blanka more!
Like I've been saying all along...
Fei God Long Tier
Anyone who actually lets "tiers" dictate how they choose a character in a fighting game is a true scrub. And anyone who disputes that is in the scrub category as well. I look at "tier lists" and I just laugh because i take my Juri, Adon, and T.Hawk and mop the floor with every "top tier" character in the game. So get off of the "tier lists" people.
see fkn morons, told u i was right.
Ibuki is alot worse now, said it 500 times but nooo everybody had to bite back at my words.
ah well, dropped this scrubgame anyway.
all AH3 now, where its Balanced, Harder, and all about pure skills only. no bs.
@37 BALANCED? are you on crack? go play arcana heart 3, see what balance means.
Why would you people listen to people like Daigo and Mago who said characters like HAKAN has no future? Yet Daigo among many others get their %^& whooped by Wildcat a Hakan user! Justin Wong [lol another player the community worships for his so called high level play] insulted Adon yet he gets mashed by Gamerbee an Adon player.
The point is these tier lists mean absolutely nothing because it all depends on the player not the character.
Hahahaha you guys are talking like people are gonna flock to Fei Long cus he is Top Tier. News flash Fei is hell of hard to use. He has no brain dead moves now (outside of ex CW), every thing he uses requires you to have good spacing or know when to use his moves or you will lose. Everyone is still gonna be playing Ken and Ryu no matter were they fall on the tier list.
dude you people just face it the japs know more about the game then we do anybody notice not allot of fireball characters made the list lol buffs and nerfs make a big difference most of these characters they picked have great mind games and tricks and great normals. tiers list are for people who cant just get good with a character they like but have to use a character people say is good. so stop complaining about where your character is on the list and just be good with your character
omg reading these comments why do they put this list up for the people who complain my charactor is on the bottom omg what do i do should i use the top character lol jesus man you people kno nothing about fighting games. @4 he sounds like hes gonna break his game now that they said thawks on bottom lol just keep using him dude who cares...for the record thawk isnt that good anyways he got a simple game once u figure it out he gets own so save it lol
I think Rose is that bad, in AE all the rush down characters became way better and Rose really has no tools to help her out of situations where you face constant pressure, both her Ultras are abominations now since U1 takes an hour to come out and U2 doesn't stop meaty attacks. Add to that Rose's lack of rushdown ability and no viable reversal and she's not that good in this game (AE) I wouldn't be surprised if she was one of the all time least used characters in AE a year from now along with Dan and Hakan. Compare to Vanilla which was way slower or in SSF4 where her U2 was a get out jail free card and you can see AE as faster and more aggressive. Capcom put more time into the new characters and making it more rush down friendly to give a crap other than nerfing her, I mean they even nerfed Dhalsim.
Tier lists dont mean diddly squat to the average player. They only really apply to the pros.
I chose my main on how much i enjoy playing with them, not where they are on the tier list. I
On a side note.. im happy to hear that the rushdown characters tend to be the stronger fighters in AE. Being a Adon user i love to rushdown and applying pressure. Hate the turtlers, its so boring
@Hitstick
Stop beating the dead horse that tiers mean nothing. Just because you saw one clip of Wildcat's Hakan beating Daigo online does not give proof to the fact that you'll see talented Hakans in tournaments and bodying everyone. A bad character is a bad character. Sure a talented player can beat many top tier characters but that can only take you so far.
I think people need to keep in mind that some of the big changes are a result of other chars getting some really good buffs, not previously good characters getting really nerfed (like Chun).
I agree with the majority of the comments here though. Just take the tier list with a grain of salt.
has anyone realised that sentinel being released means theres a possibility that characters that were disconfirmed for AE might actually be in for console release? e.g rolento etc. because capcom deconfirmed sentinel but hes in mvc3 now. I no there different games but "what if" lool
@102-103
Arcana heart 3 is as boring as watching a dying fish suffocate on land.
Ha! @92 i want that, and alot of others do too lol. Dont try to in a sneaky way influence peoples minds away from Evil Ryu lol. Evil Ryu is the most anticipated thing for sf right now lol. I can tell you're upset about it, and ppl probably still be turtle :(. Hey say things to make you feel better even if they're not true. lol Evil Ryu will be the most used character, and like Ryu only 7% of will actually be good with him lol. I get around, i'd say including me they're about 20-45 good Ryu's online whore truly good.
@MetroCityPub: LOL you say Wildcat's Hakan beating of a top tier is only one time? Go look at the PLETHORA of videos where he is bodying up top Japanese players. Did not one of the communities top players J Wong with his Top tierz Rufus get bodied by a low tier character in Adon [who justin said is @#$ by the way] used by Gamerbee in a tournament?
Street Fighter's whole purpose with the balancing issues is to not have a character better than the other but to make it an even playing field.
Lmao@THawk. Dude...Thawk gets raped by zoning characters and he sucks against turtles and charge characters. This is why THawk never makes it far in tournaments, he fights a lot more than rush down when grapplers traditionally have advantage over them. You have to play stupid mind games with T. Hawk and mash out his ultra and if you miss....say goodbye to 40%, lol. Even though Ryu got nerfed, he'll still own T. Hawk for free.
These pro players...have played hundreds of matches and they play against people worth fighting. They have a right to make whatever they want to make, there's no one on the planet better than they are.
Also, lists are based on popularity. As long as a certain character doesn't have solid representatives, he/she will never be high in the tier listing.
The list is just a general overview of how well particular characters are doing in high level play, but that doesn't mean they can't be beat. Yun/Yang/Fei Long are highest on the list...but they lose to grapplers who are ranked B and C.
no disrespect to bruce lee but da long-crub on xbox are going to troll the rank matches... fuk all u fei long tier whore!
I believe their tier lists are based on the several hundred matches they have played in AE and the people/characters they have fought. Also probably noted is they probably took into account if said character were to fight another in a first to ten, which would fare better and Mago showed why Fei is S tier back in last year's God's Garden. So one lucky win by Wildcat's Hakan on Daigo or Bullcat's Gouken on Mago online doesnt mean anything at all. Daigo listed Chun as a C tier thats probably because Daigo has fought the best Chuns alot back in Vanilla (Nemo, Nuki whom are the best) and he doesnt have much trouble against Chuns at all (with Ryu atleast).
@92:
Well, Evil Ryu can Shoryuken-FADC into all of his Ultras which is something Akuma can't. Makes him have nothing to envy to Akuma I think. But it is way too early to really know for sure what he worths as a character.
I really hope the changes make SSF4 a more offensive game, turtling was too powerful before. Turtling should be a strategy no better or no worst than any others.
Some characters really seem to be underrated. I particularly think of Gouken. He now can link his low fierce which is his opening move to all his destructive combos. It Should make climb some ladders in the tier list I think. But anyway, it is way too early to have a tier list.
Looking at their records these 3 guys are approaching 10,000 matches between them...so yea their opinion on the game is alot more valid than everyone on this site combined. Many international players have stated the game def feels more balanced than console so I'm sure the gap between tiers is smaller, looks pretty legit so far when compared to top BP lists.
Correction:
Daigo-3177 matches
Mago-1732
Tokido-1830 at last count
As far as Arcana Hearts?? Yuck, if I wanna watch a bunch of softcore anime chicks fight I'll go rent Sailor Moon videos or something.
this is only a self preference ranking not a real one
The real ranking would be on statistics;) & would only reflect people skills on those characters.
I personally heard daigo say that he has trouble VS FieLong
& mago has trouble VS Boxer. so basically they both get mind f***ed by those two characters have nothing to do with where they actually rank! daigo as well ranked Abel so low because he find it easy to defeat him.
I think the only worth full ranking would be Win-loss ratio based on arcade statistic/BP points.
I know theses guys are pros at this game BUT when have you ever seen one of these guys play as someone other than there mains or one other. They spend so much time playing there mains and getting better with them how do they know what tier everyone falls under? They dont spend any time playing them? I have seen low tier players have 16000 points or more and it is because people have spent the time to play them and learn them well like there mains just my thoughts
"I know theses guys are pros at this game BUT when have you ever seen one of these guys play as someone other than there mains or one other."
Often. Also, considering they play the game more than probably anyone on the planet I'd say they have the best judgment when it comes to these things anyway.
@131
they have all played SF2 and SF Alpha so they have basic knowledge of almost the entire cast. add in a few hours of gameplay and boom they have mastered him. dont be surprised when you see people who play almost 25+ chars in SF4. past exp helps... A LOT
Often. Also, considering they play the game more than probably anyone on the planet I'd say they have the best judgment when it comes to these things anyway...... well i dont and i watch alot of videos and they are playing the same people show me a video of daigo playing dan? Mago playing ibuki..... you dontit would be fun to watch them play with the lower tier players. there not just good because they play alot they are playing top tier people
hakan boosted :D now i wont get so much grief for playing him
There you go. THEY WERE RIGHT. ALL ALONG. You guys argued and argued, but look at top 8 for Evo this year. A FEI WON. second came C.Viper. Heck, when Daigo switched to Yun you guys should have known something was up. Fei's broken, Yun is too. Yang seems a little more tame than the other two to me, which is shown in the tiers.
WTF??
blanka and guile dropped baaaaaad!
E honda better than them? thought he would be shi+y know...