Luna noticed that Air, a well regarded Ryu player, posted a match up tier ranking for Ryu in the console version of Super Street Fighter 4 on his blog. It was stated this chart came from his experience in Japan, but was based on his own personal understanding of Ryu.Character / Ryu
C.Viper - 5 / 5
Dan - 4.5 / 5.5
Deejay - 5 / 5
Dhalsim - 7 / 3
Dudley - 5 / 5
El Fuerte - 6 / 4
E.Honda - 5 / 5
Fei Long - 6.5 / 3.5
What do you think? Leave a comment below with your thoughts.
"*And not forget to mention, all the matchup are based on my experience from JAPAN. For example low tier characters like DAN, HAKAN, GEN etc and Japanese players like stripfighter (DAN), wildcat (Hakan), Amiyu (Gen) who are really good with their characters. THEY ARE NOT BASED ON North America's standard where they just taunt with Dan, Hakans that just pour oil all over themselves or Gen just jumping off the wall like Spider-Man."
Hey, Spider-Man Gen is legit.
some of these are a bit extreme, but i definitely believe the Sim Ryu match-up.
@6
Bison Guile match-up is 7-3 i believe. and Gief and Sagat is 7-3. Ryu and T Hawk is 7-3 Guile and Sim is 7-3 Sims favour etc...
Well he did state that this is his experience from JAPAN. I guess Japans players give him a hard time including the low tier class. Its his opinion so i agree.
Bullsh-t?:D I guess anyone looks for an excuse to call their chracter low tier. I highly doubt Ryu will be low tier, if anything, I think AE is going to be extremely balanced in comparrison to older titles.
Lol I forgot how many people on eventhubs praise Ryu and think he is the best in the game.
Seems legit, from what everyone is saying they think fireball characters that arent Sagat and Guile will have a harder time in AE. Some of those matches seem iffy but I agree with most of them. Ryu isnt gonna be bottom tier more of mid tier which isnt bad.
Stop riding D!ck riding Ryu Eventhubs lol.
I think ryu is mid tier definitely not bottom tier, also
ryu -ken match up is 6:4 ryu's favor....
Deejay a 5/5 with Ryu, is this guy serious? Sounds like he wants to make Ryu sound weaker then he actually is.
My character is the worst in the game. I still win with him. Can I have more fans, please?
Pathetic excuse attempt, Air. You lose major respect points.
Damn.. Ryu dropped 18 spots on the tier list? I won't believe it till more information is gathered.
Sorry eventscrubs, this list is only based on people from japan who actually know how to play their character, not supermen like you who jump around all day.
7/3 advantage for dhalsim seems to make sense for me. Dj isn't even that bad a character
Hm... bunch of butthurt comments, i see :D Living out your frustration of loosing on the character... real sportsmanship. Never try to become better, just post whiny comments. And yeah, please accuse me with that i'm a Ryu player thus further proving my point.
Well, as a mostly Dhalsim player, I am surprised to hear this.
I have mad respect for the SF skills of gamers like Air. I'm even more interested now to check these matchups myself.
If the Ryu/DeeJay fight is actually 5/5 though, wow! That MAY speak volumes as to the overall AE adjustments.
As Ryu is the main man, I do think it makes sense for him to be directly in the middle. Not overpowered yet not underpowered! He is a cool character but has seemed a bit on the strong side in Vanilla and Super.
Maybe these are indicators that the Arcade Edition balance is closer to that "just right" area? I Guess we will see.
@24 don't forget also by american players and also Vangief in Evo online if this counts.
Anyways some parts of the list feel iffy to me also why .5 it's not like you guys got Double KO's to obtain that the only match-ups I don't trust regardless of top players are
El Fuerte (come on really)
Gen
Juri (Heck I would if she had the same invincibility in her pinwheel as a DP)
T. Hawk
Zangief
If u went to japan and played online there, i bet thered be less scrubs there than here, judging by his list and videos ive watched from japanese players, it must be intense down there.
Also, lol for the scrubs here whining about someones opinion. u know what? read the damn link thats posted. although he doesnt state all of his reasons towards his rankings, and the fact that hes basing this off HIS RYU, i could see where hes coming from and i respect his opinion.
tier lists are a theoretical thing, so it doesnt matter how much YOU own / or get pwnz. it's about a theroetical fight with everything considered. MU exp or player skill has NOTHING to do with it. so it's POINTLESS to state "it's about my ryu". and everyone who ofc it's just HIS OPONION, but that doesnt change the above fact.
and at all "mimimi eventhubs scrubs"... u know what? THIS IS A DISCUSSION and if someone states HIS opinion and YOU deny that, u r simply just doin the same. so stfu and think before posting. kkthxbye
@32 Well that's the point high level play is what makes the tier list because they have learned there character more or less inside and out so they know which moves are better options. Like in gods garden for example people thought Sim owned Fei until Mago did more playing with him and learned different things changing the opinions of it same with Sako's Cammy against Daigo's Ryu
I would be more interested in some videos or an in depth description to some of these match-ups especially to the ones I mentioned above like Elf especially with the nerfs he received.
I mean it is based on his opinion, but this honestly seems pretty accurate when you think about it. A lot of the 6-4 matches are characters who have better pokes and options, depending on who it is. For instance Cammy once she gets a knockdown you're forced to play her far more defensively since she has a lot of ways of hitting her opponents on wake up, such as cross up, air cannon spike for block strings etc.
Rose generally is a overall good defensive character who has a solid fireball game, and very good pokes in standing fierce kick, crouching mp, and her soul spiral for punish.
The Dhalsim match is also the most accurate match up. Maybe in Vanilla it would be an even 5-5 or 6-4, but because of Sim's buffs in Super, you're hard press to find a way to get in on him as his only weakness in match ups is if you put him in the corner and use a character who is designed to be a rush down character. Ryu isn't like that anymore, if he was to begin with.
you guys are stupid or what ? if you were to go to THE SOURCE of this he's talking about HIS RYU not ryu in general..
seriously kids these days....
Biased Air is biased.
You know what, I main Cammy, and I think every matchup she has is 7-3 in the opponents favor. Except the dhalsim matchup; which is 5.1/4.9 in mine.
What i dont understand is that from the beginning of time, its been stated that tier lists and match ups only apply at the highest level, when you know almost every little detail. now, a lot of people commenting are not even near that level, so why talk like you are?? you havent faced the level of comp with certain characters he has, so until you get to that stage, fall back and realize tiers dont even apply to you.
I think some of these are pretty accurate, anytime a character has a sure way of getting past his hadouken like juri,(not saying it's in juri's favor) he's in danger.
Everyone just salty cause online, they try to rush him down 24/7 when of course he has SHOOOORYUKEN, you're gonna get hit with atleast one of them. Or the nubs who can't even adapt to mashers lol.
Really? Ryu doesn't have a single matchup where it's 6/4. Yet he has plently that's 3/7.
This guy be trolling.
I don't agree with several matchups he listed either, but it's good anyway to get some insight from experienced players - like, Mago saying Fei Long-Ryu is 7-3: if Japanese players about this being a hard matchup for Ryu, no wonder Daigo just picked Guile to fight him.
What people have to understand here is that Ryu's no longer a top tier (like in Vanilla), and that having good tools against lots of characters doesn't translate in him being ultra strong.
Last time I checked.... Ryu was among the top 10 in this game..... from what he is saying. Ryu is bad. I can't believe this for a sec.... I know Air is A LOT better then me.... but if he really expects me to believe that Ryu goes even with T-hawk......... he must be crazy
Deejay does pretty well against Ryu if you play your cards right
this is not HIS RYU, by HIS OPINION/UNDERSTANDING of ryu.
it's based on his experiences in japan.... however, tha doesn't matter now does it?
because it's still a tier list that he put out and it's open to criticism due to the fact it's released to the public.
anyway, just imagining ryu lacking the advantage in so many match ups is laughable, hence 95% of the comments lol.
so long as SRK is nigh invincible and does a lot of damage (the light one in particular), so long as his super (which is one of the BEST) can be connected to any light SRK), so long as he is tied for the fastest jab, so long as he can combo into his ultra in so many different ways.... and then some... ryu WILL NOT be "low tier" period.
@ all you eventscrubs
Have you guys ever vsed the best gens in japan? Do you think he is vsing some low level scrubs at some random arcades? Obviously he is vsing the top players of each low/middle tier character and when a character has been played and analyzed to such an extent it is a lot more difficult to apply all the tricks etc. Everybody analyzes Daigo's Ryu as he is arguably the best in the world and we all know Air is not as good as him so it's a lot harder to play with such an exposed and highly played character.
Air is also vsing low tier characters played by top players which he may still be unfamiliar with match ups etc, this is why he says IT'S BASED ON HIS EXPERIENCE. He may not know the match up or the players may just be exceptional. You can't compare the Japanese to the American trash (Excluding the top american players) as he also states previously. IMO It's a whole different game over there.
Ok for all of you who still do´t undestand. This is a tier list for Air´s ryu not ryu in general! Air feels that when he is playing skilled fuerte he´s ryu has a disadvantage. So in a way this is not ryu´s tier list this is more like air´s tier list. Air has a 6/4 match against fuerte.
yeah bs, even though i like air, he just sounded like the rest of the ryu players in the world which is about more than half of the sf community, you would think capcom would nerf ryu since he obviously one of the best in the game on top of the fact that every1 sucks is almighty shoryupenis, sure he has a couple of bad matchups but ryu low tier? yeah my okay. smd ryu players straight up, all of you can die, i would have respect for a guy who mains dan and beats the hell out of me before i respect you jerks. honestly, anyone and i really mean anyone can pick up ryu and train with him and realize damn this guy is nice, i might just main him.
@ GW you bash the site but your sloppy @ss is commenting go back to twitter homo!
i totally agree with #63 - boosterpatrol
People who main ryu are boring. same goes for guile players IMO.
There are so many interesting/more fun characters to use, and people still pick Ryu and Guile?! it dunfounds me
As for the main topic... BOLLOCKS!!! There is no way SSFIV Ryu is that low on the tier list
@60 pfft... LMFAO your post was horrid and full of errors that are beyond obvious also I know I'm going to get flamed for this but Air feels like an online warrior IMHO like the rest of us look at this performance against actual tournament players in the Canada Cup the ones who saw his vid's on Shin's channel were all like OMG he might actually take it and he was spanked around. Sorry Shin I enjoy your vids but I'm just calling it like I see it.
Also Air has played super enough to know match-ups hence his articles on Ryu match-ups on his blog and it is console not arcade the sad thing is he doesn't face a ton of good players online in NA so he's more than likely basing this on a small amount.
Ryu can't be that low. he's still top tier because the fact that he got his trade light shoryuken into Ultra 1 back. he's lower probably but he's still top tier
Ridiculous. No character with a non-charge missile attack and non-charge anti-air will ever be ranked that low. The basic mechanics of the game mean that he sets the pace of the fight and forces the opponent to react in ways that most of the other characters can never manage.
I understand it's based on his personal experiences, but how could anyone really play Ryu and feel like his advantage is this limited? I think you'd be hard-pressed to find other Ryu players, let alone those experienced with other characters, who would concur with some of these matchup assessments.
Air was gonna post the Dan match-up as 9-1 in Ryu's favor, but then he played Acekombat.
Not every Guile player is a tier whore. I played him in SF2, then stuck with him (90% usage) through the dark SF4 days. Managed to find a way to win more often than not, then was rewarded somewhat in SSF4. He'll come back down to earth in AE anyway, then the pretenders will leave and stop giving the real Guile players a bad name.
Looks like we'll finally get a break from all the shoto players, but I have to admit I'll miss the easy wins with Abel against all the shoto scrubs lol
@ 65... thats so true
Guile is boring as hell, always has been. so IMO nerf the boring bastard to cut down on the turtling guile scrubs. Why pick guile when deejay is similar, but way more fun.
IMO Capcom need to buff the more interesting characters that are way to weak, ie. Gouken, DeeJay, Hakan, Dudley and Adon
And nerf the boring characters like, Ryu, Guile, Honda and Blanka
What does it even mean mean to base the tier list from Japanese players...
This guy is a joke and its not like hes played so many players from japan that he has enough data to compile his own tier list FROM Japanese players ONLY.
He's probably trying to justify maining Ryu which btw is too much fireball spam.
Air's Ryu is a prime example of how annoying Ryu can be.
LMAO if this was even anywhere near close Ryu would be ranked like 25th-28th... Poor Ryu with his well balanced set of normals, moves to deal with basically everything, a 3 frame anti air/reversal, easy untech knockdowns that set up safe jumps Vs everyone... Oh yeah and a good zoning game plus pretty easy combo's into ultra and Super... But yeah Dan nearly has his number lol
So in Air's opinion, it's a balanced game where it comes down to skill of the players and not the tricks of the game. It's why so many matches are close enough to the point where he had to bring back out the .5 difference match-ups.
People are getting hot over THIS...
@77
couldnt agree with you anymore, pretty much the perfect character with very few bad match ups,
This "tier list" is based on every character's tools being used to their fullest potential and how it affects the match-up for Ryu in Air's opinion.
Whoever posted this article along with the "Ryu would place towards the bottom, 25th overall according to our current tiers ranking list" bit really screwed this up. If that bit was left out, I'm pretty sure this discussion would've at least started out different.
Air didn't say he think he was low tier. That's the Eventhubs bit. Air thinks Ryu is mid-high tier, which is correct.
"I think ryu is mid tier definitely not bottom tier, also
ryu -ken match up is 6:4 ryu's favor...."
- Ryu vs Ken is 6-4 Ryu's favour in Vanilla. It's at least 5.5-4.5 in Ken's favour in Super.
"He's probably trying to justify maining Ryu which btw is too much fireball spam.
Air's Ryu is a prime example of how annoying Ryu can be."
- Ryu's main tool is his fireball. Why shouldn't he be "spamming" it? By your logic, every character is annoying by using their best tool repeatedly, over and over again.
"I think some of these are pretty accurate, anytime a character has a sure way of getting past his hadouken like juri,(not saying it's in juri's favor) he's in danger."
- This is probably the most accurate post in this discussion of Ryu.
Wait, so is #78.
Who is this boosterpatrol guy? He obviously has SOMETHING against Air since he's bashing on him every chance he gets. Once or twice would've been fine, but this many times? Jeez. Air took out Jwong 2-0 at Canada Cup without losing a single round. I suppose you think Jwong sucks too, huh?
This 'tier list' is Air's opnion. You don't have to agree with him. That's how he views his Ryu againts the majority of the cast (if not, the whole cast). In a way, this can help someone play better &/or smarter. To have a mindset saying your match-ups are slightly equal or a bit more to your opponents advantage can help you work that potential you have to the fullest. That's how I play when I use Gouken. I basically assume I have to work harder than my opponent for the wins. I guess you can sum it up to skill & the desire to excel when you think you have to work your ass off. That, & practice. This is Air's view of his Ryu. This is how he thinks he has to work during the match to get that win.
I think Air meant this as more of a fun little opinion post. As someone said earlier, it should be thought of as an "Air" tier list, not a Ryu tier list.
I can't say i agree with all those numbers though. I main Deejay, and all the scrub ryu's out there are obviously free as hell. But i know a couple Ryu players who actually know what they're doing, and lemme tell ya, Deejay can't do sh*t against a high level Ryu. All Ryu has to do is get 1 UTK, then safe jump + option select repeatedly and he can maintain a strong advantage. Deejay has no legit reversal that hits low. And by "legit" i mean also has fast startup + i-frames + hits low (like an SRK). And that's just 1 strat. Ryu has a better fireball too, so he can turtle as well.
Ryu can also pop off high damage combos from pretty much anything. This means he can punish way harder than deejay. Deejay can't punish well at all if he needs to drop his charge by taking a step forward (which is often necessary to punish Ryu's whiffed light DP).
So all in all, Air is way off on that one. It's more like 6.175 - 3.825
Sit on my d*ck Air!
Ryu is just a solid character. He didn't change much over the years. His few changes (that I recall at least) is when he was in SSF2. He was given f-HP & f-MP. In SF3, he was given that command step in kick. Other than that, he's the same Ryu. He's consistent. He's not OP or bottom tier, he's just rock solid.
This list is hilarious. Air is full of it. Ryu is a strong character. Daigo's opinions have been FAR more realistic. Can't really take Air seriously anymore. Don't know why he embarrassed himself like this. It's not like everybody doesn't know Ryu and can't see he is fudgin numbers against Ryu left and right.
Lol, if Air was full of it, he'd list Ryu vs Honda as at least 5.5-4.5 in Honda's favour. But he didn't. I'm actually surprised by that, seeing as how Honda can jump in for free against Ryu's garbage dp. Honda jumps, Ryu dps, trade in Honda's FAVOUR. Honda's HHS chip > Ryu's fireball chip.
Yeah, that's exactly why we see so many Ryu players win tournaments.
Oh wait.
@83
Oh, so YOUR Deejay can't do anything against a high level Ryu. So this 6.175 - 3.825 match-up is if you were up against against a high level Ryu? You see what's going on here? You're basing this match-up on when you get knocked down and pressured with safe jumps -> option selects. So what would the match-up be if you didn't get knocked down by Ryu?
^ You do know Honda is considered bad against Ryu right. If the dp trades with Honda's jump HP it may be in Honda's favor. But if you can do the crouching dragon punch, it negates anything Honda can do.
You sound like Air, trying to justify your character being weak when he obviously isn't.
^ Ryu may not be top tier, but he is the most balanced character there is. He has the tools to account for almost any situation.
That's why everyone here is saying that "Air thinking Ryu has so many bad matchups" is stupid.
^ Riiiiiight. Don't you find something odd that Air's lists almost every matchup as bad for Ryu; usually a 6/4. And then only gives Ryu good matchups against the three worst characters in the game with only a 0.5 advantage.
Either you are a Ryu mainer with a lot of biases, a troll, or stupid.
Yes, I'm very aware that Honda is considered a bad match-up against Ryu. Because Honda has a tough time against most characters with a fireball. I didn't really mean it, I just used that as an example seeing as how people were saying "lol Ryu doesn't have that many bad match-ups, Air r scrub," except I actually provided an example instead of just leaving a stupid comment without backing it up.
Crouch dp still trades more than it should. You realize Dan has a better dp than Ryu, right? That's pretty stupid, imo.
I don't use Ryu, btw. Don't really see how you got that I was justifying my character being weak when I never mentioned who I use. Ryu isn't weak, I do agree with that. Well, he's good, but he isn't THAT good, if you know what I mean. Like I said, Air is comparing Ryu's tools against other characters' tools (if they shut down Ryu's fireball game and/or can outpoke him, etc.) and basing the match-ups off that. So if both players are playing their respective characters at their highest level, all his seemingly "bad match-ups" aren't that bad at all.
"That's why everyone here is saying that "Air thinking Ryu has so many bad matchups" is stupid."
Wait, so are you agreeing with Air or disagreeing?
@boosterpatrol, so your standard of Ryu is "be on Daigo's level or you automatically suck." You didn't even answer my question. Why are you blatantly bashing on Air?
Think of it this way,
2 Ryu players qualified for SBO 2010. Daigo and Air. How is Air's Ryu "sh*t"? Troll harder.
Where's Fuudo? Where's Umechin? Ryukichikun? etc. etc.
They must all suck and be muuuuch worse than Daigo. /sarcasm
Fuudo defeated Daigo in Grand Finals at WCG in Vanilla.
Instead of calling bullplop here, go over to Air's blog and ASK him WHY he thinks this match-up is such and such. He'll answer and provide some insight...? This is barely a discussion here.
A lot of you are calling this absolute bull without even trying to understand his point of view (or even understanding that this isn't a "definitive Ryu tier list", which Air even stated himself). If you feel THAT against his list, then go to his blog and challenge his points with your own instead of sh*tting on his list.
You sound like his stalker freak with a vengeance. You also haven't explained the hate. I'm curious. "Bitch" now? Come on.
I normally don't post on here but I'm only defending him because he really doesn't deserve THIS much bashing.
Okay then explain, why were there only 2 Ryu entrants at SBO?
You know what? Forget it. You're just going to ignore me again and call me an Air fanboy. I've said what I had to say and it's really not worth dealing with your incomprehension.
"Once again just proves that air's ryu is sh*t and not a patch on daigos".
You Daigo fanboy.
You sound like you mad because you lose to no skill scrubby Ryu's online. Stay free.
One more thing to prove you wrong.
Air's team OCV'd Team Shiro, Ojisanboy, and Shiro to secure their spot at SBO. Yeah, they were just a "couple random scrubs", according to you. Anyone but Daigo is a scrub in your eyes, right?
That team had to participate at another qualifier in order to secure their spot at SBO.
are people this ignorant really? Air is doing nothing different than what most of you do when a SSF4 AE character intro comes out. you complained and complained and complained until your finger were sore. Air is basing this off HIS RYU. not a Ryu but HIS RYU.
ok class repeat...what is Air basing his list off of
(*insert proper comment here*)
when Blanka AE info came out, most of you complained that he got nerfed and his match-ups were bad. to some of you id say your correct, to those who said he was broken in any previous SF4 title, i would love to money match you. make some extra cash. again when you see a list like this it is based off one PROS RYU against a bunch of other PROS. if the people here who cant see this played the guys Air played, you would make a list like this too.
I don't believe the match between Rose and Ryu is 6-4 in her favor. Almost all her pokes get beaten out by Ryu's crouching strong and his crouching forward is way better than her crouching forward. He has more tools than her and (unless she's using U2) she's basically free on wake-up and has no viable reversal. I'd believe it was 4-6 but 6-4 seems too generous.
based on "where he'd be ranked" ...this has got to be wrong lol.
what's this?? i'm first? mwuahahahahaaa!