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Nemo shares his thoughts on Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition tiers

Posted by Jonathan 'Catalyst' Grey • February 16, 2011 at 12:36 p.m. PST
Nemo shares his thoughts on Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition tiers Nemo, an highly regarded player from Japan, shared his thoughts on Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition. The main point of interest for most people is probably the tier list, but there is some general chatter about the title as well.

The piece is in Japanese, but has English translations. Here's a snip.

[What's your] AE Tier List?

Nemo: If you want to [be] playing this game Yun, Yang, Makoto. Using other characters wouldn't be fun in this game.

People who want to win, pick Fei Long. People who want to irritate others, pick Adon.

Using advantageous characters against this 5 strong characters. In order:

1. Yun
2. Fei Long
3. Yang
4. Makoto
5. Adon
6. Ken
7. Sagat
8. Akuma
9. C. Viper
10. Zangief

It's worth comparing this to Daigo, Tokido and Mago's tier list for SSF4 Arcade Edition that was posted a couple of weeks ago.

Article spotted on Shadowloo.com.

Comments

DestinyZX1 said on February 16, 2011 at 12:02 p.m.

I always thought Fei Long wasn't that good of a character in SSF4 but now in AE, he's actually one of the best characters around next to Yun who is UBER.

#1
CoastalmixX said on February 16, 2011 at 12:03 p.m.

"People who want to irritate others, pick Adon"

Hahahaha I think the same principle applies to Yun.

Fei is really fun to play and so is Akuma... they feel like they haven't changed. I really didn't think Adon would be that high

#2
gtfopanda said on February 16, 2011 at 12:04 p.m.

I don't get how Adon is that strong, now that he lost is insanely fast wakeup and his buffs seem not great (see Gamerbee's blog).

That aside, I still see Boxer and Dictator up there.

#3
Hiakimaru said on February 16, 2011 at 12:09 p.m.

My opinion.
F**K THE TIER LIST AAAAAAAA
Oh well, but because of that, lots of people are switching to Fei and lots will be using Yun and Yang, more Yun then Yang, thats so sad.
sad face :(

#4
ButterKnife said on February 16, 2011 at 12:09 p.m.

SSF4 was so fun and diverse. Not sure why it's being messed with.

#5
gtfopanda said on February 16, 2011 at 12:10 p.m.

Forgot to add: how is Chun boring here?

I mean, she's totally the same character, just a couple of minor tweaks. She might be slightly worse, but it's not like she's changed... Dunno.

#6
JanTheMan said on February 16, 2011 at 12:12 p.m.

Is there a "pro" that believes the statement "Skill > Tier"?

#7
shakaka said on February 16, 2011 at 12:13 p.m.

Why they took an almost perfect balanced game and screwed it up?

Not only that they added two unnecessary characters...and two more are coming.

Capcom sometimes show their amateurism.

#8
THE_GODDAMN_MASTER said on February 16, 2011 at 12:17 p.m.

Well, this oughta be fun.
looks like Ono got his wish for god-tier characters after all!
Now, we're almost guaranteed to get another version if CAPCOM even cares about one of their flagship franchises...

#9
Hiakimaru said on February 16, 2011 at 12:18 p.m.

@7
I'm sure not a Pro or a "pro" lol , but i believe, Skill > Tier.

#10
tomahawk said on February 16, 2011 at 12:20 p.m.

@8 lol "perfect balanced game" have you ever played ssf4?

#11
Hiakimaru said on February 16, 2011 at 12:22 p.m.

@11

Yeah... it wasnt balance at all,but lets agreed with Mike Ross, every caracter was good the way they were, just some that need some buffs, no one actualy need nerfs.

#12
MALDA said on February 16, 2011 at 12:27 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#13
MALDA said on February 16, 2011 at 12:29 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#14
cerz said on February 16, 2011 at 12:29 p.m.

AE killed SFIV

#15
THE_GODDAMN_MASTER said on February 16, 2011 at 12:32 p.m.

@15: I blame Yun fanboys who couldn't stop whining about their waifu getting more publicity.
To appease them, CAPCOM screwed their mascot (and just about the entire cast) up the ass and spent most of the actual development time going into the game's coding for damage scaling and making it more like the 'holiest of holies' 3rd Strike (i.e. no damage scaling whatsoever, laughably fast meter gain).
So yeah, CAPCOM killed Street Fighter.

#16
shakaka said on February 16, 2011 at 12:47 p.m.

Funny thing is that they nerfed everyone meter gaining. Even Rose.Even GEN.

But Yun and Yang....ow those guys need fast meter gains.Fk Capcom

#17
x_Who_Is_Alpha said on February 16, 2011 at 12:58 p.m.

Expect more tweaks when the game is released on disc or is downloadable. They did that before when SFIV was on the arcades. If capcom has a brain they'll take away Yun's ridicuous ex dash punch and buff the rest of the lower characters.

#18
ChunLi said on February 16, 2011 at 12:58 p.m.

Where can I get the full pic of, um...me? I think I look really cute in that shot. :3

#19
THawk said on February 16, 2011 at 12:58 p.m.

Wow not going lie... I totally forgot this game existed.

#20
lowdojo said on February 16, 2011 at 1:01 p.m.

Capcom have spoken in the past that they read fan feedback so I only hope they're taken all the negative comments into consideration before trying to flog us AE DLC. It sounds like a subtle rebalance might address a lot of concerns (reduce nerfs, reduce the twin's stupid meter gain).

I'm an average player and for average me I thought SSFIV was nearly perfect. If AE = twin-fest online then I just won't play it... or maybe even the next one.

Screw giving Capcom money for costumes anymore; did that partly in the past to help reinforce the series as worthwhile to Capcom. If they're going to get lazy and start trying to sell worthless updates then forget it.

#21
Jigo said on February 16, 2011 at 1:03 p.m.

What I dont get is, is why after all those balance changes, and two versions of SF4, would dumba$$ Ono to want S-tier characters. Now I know that is not intended for characters to be that strong but why the hell would you intend to put them there ON PROPOSE in the first place. Gootecks, Mike Ross, and a few other people said that Ono wanted S-tier characters.

................

This is suppose to be a better version of the game, but how? Yes my two characters jumped on the tier list (Sakura and Makoto) not that I cared about that in the first place because I still used them, but damn. S-tier? That is bullsh__t. We went from Sf4, to a much better game, SSf4, back to Sf4 balance with Yun and Yang. Man yo, Just when Street Fighter was coming up, leave it to Ono kidde a$$ to say "I want S-Tier Character! YAY!!!"

Balance masters these oo's yo...

#22
yuenyun said on February 16, 2011 at 1:10 p.m.

Loool, I just keep thinking of Mike Ross revealing marn's mashing ex lunge punch.

Between the twins I was flip flopping at first, but after getting to try them first hand, I can see why Yun is placed above yang.

#23
gtfopanda said on February 16, 2011 at 1:14 p.m.

If they didn't kill half of the cast going from Vanilla to Super, and then to AE, we'd now have a really cool game.

#24
DeadlyMoves said on February 16, 2011 at 1:19 p.m.

As an Adon user in SSFIV and the Alpha series, i seriously doubt that his changes in AE put him from the bottom of the middle to top 5. 10th at the most

I like what he said about if you want to irritate, pick Adon. lol... Thats one of the reasons why ive used him since Alpha. Adon can be a real pain to fight against if used properly. :(

And i dont see why they(some of the pro's) keep saying Makoto is top tier. I wouldnt have thought the few changes she got would take her from bottom 3 to top 4

#25
gtfopanda said on February 16, 2011 at 1:21 p.m.

@ #25

You clearly don't know what they changed regarding Mak, or maybe you just read the hitbox article posted yesterday.

The girl is scary - and was underrated in SSF4.

#26
okay said on February 16, 2011 at 1:34 p.m.

Momochi and Choco have an English blog? Nice.

#27
Guardsian said on February 16, 2011 at 1:46 p.m.

I main Adon.. there is no way a couple of little buffs made him fly that high up the list.

#28
Psycho said on February 16, 2011 at 1:56 p.m.

@ 25 is 3s she was a beast so buffin her would be pretty easy

#29
Cauptain said on February 16, 2011 at 2 p.m.

WTF Nemo??

Daigo´s words >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nemo crap opinions

#30
powderedtoastman said on February 16, 2011 at 2:20 p.m.

@#25
Cant forget how nerfing others could indirectly boost his tier status. So its not just his small amounts of buffs that is in play here... same applies for makoto. As someone else said she was underrated in ssf4 and needed help in some areas which she was given so she skyrocketed.

And seeing how the current ssf4 tier placement is boosting a few match ups would send someone up pretty fast seeing how alot of people are even in total or close by a few numbers. Balrog, cammy, honda, bison were all toned down so that would boost up adon from alot of his bad match ups. and not to forget the lesser used characters that gotten toned down could of given Adon some favorable match ups.

#31
xShonuffx said on February 16, 2011 at 2:23 p.m.

Looks l ike SSFIV AE is the new MvC2. Well now im REALLY not looking forward to AE at all. I was a Yun user in 3S but with everyone wanting to play Yun in SFIV im kind of put off. If they focused on bringing more old characters in than stupid Oni and Evil Ryu and twins Yun and Yang, AE would be the game to have. But I don't think it's gonna do well.

I think im done with SFIV for now, im having a blast with MvC3. I just hope the patches don't kill and over buff certain characters like they did in the SFIV incarnations. I think Niitusma is smarter than that.

Oh and in before the guy who tells everyone to STFU because we are whining......

#32
powderedtoastman said on February 16, 2011 at 2:33 p.m.

@#31 to add to my post
C. viper looks pretty low on the current list posted here(lolol) and she was remotely unchanged yet she ended up in top 10 in AE. If you dont understand how some changes can dramatically change someone, a bit of research could help. Look at cammy they toned down her normal cannon spike move and shes nowhere to be found and it is still usable to an extent lol.

#33
NINJA said on February 16, 2011 at 3:06 p.m.

How did Adon got so up there on the list?
Everyone that was above dropped down.

#34
BlankaBeast said on February 16, 2011 at 3:17 p.m.

I recommend a rebalance before it comes to consoles.

:D

PC FTW.

#35
Nyoronoru said on February 16, 2011 at 3:32 p.m.

Adon's worst matchups got nerfed.

#36
samuraix025 said on February 16, 2011 at 3:54 p.m.

the game is not perfectly balanced, seth said it was one of the "most balanced" and suddenly it has snow balled into "perfect" if the game was perfect every match would be 5/5 and it just doesn't work that way.

everyone says skill is greater than tier and that may be partially true. but when push comes to shove a bad match up is a bad match up. just because even an S- tier has bad match ups doesn't mean it balanced, losing 6 out of 30+ potential match combinations is still damn good.

as a good friend once said "it only feels balanced when you're winning, when you're losing no matter who you play as your character is the worse in the game"

#37
triplefierce said on February 16, 2011 at 4:29 p.m.

checked out BP rankings at versuscity from a month ago- out of the top 20, 7 were Yuns. Seems to back up what Nemo is saying.

Dont think tiers really effect casual play (me), but i wont be surprised if tourneys become Yun heavy.

#38
DeadlyMoves said on February 16, 2011 at 4:36 p.m.

These so called tier lists arent even proper established lists. There just peoples opinions. Plus i Reckon Oni and Evil Ryu will have something to say about this. These dont really mean anything until AE has been out as dlc for a while. And even then, tier lists dont really mean diddly squat unless your at pro level

#39
Grimmjow316 said on February 16, 2011 at 5:20 p.m.

Man I find it pathetic that the only reason Zangief is up there is because he can supposedly own the twins BS all of them already have Sagat, Ken & Chun as back ups I'm seriously thinking of just dropping the game altogether it just doesn't feel fun anymore in terms of nerfs & buffs. I'm still salty over my GH

#40
Nyoronoru said on February 16, 2011 at 5:21 p.m.

I have played both Evil Ryu and Oni and I can assure you they don't have enough to crack the top 5.

#41
Raven said on February 16, 2011 at 5:24 p.m.

It's not the big things that matter, it's the small: detail.

The developers can make small tweaks here and there and some characters would be extremely good, like Makoto. Which proves it wasn't the game engine, it was the developers being too scared to make her the way she should be.

After seeing the dramatic change in Makoto, I'd say that goes for anybody else as well.

#42
powderedtoastman said on February 16, 2011 at 5:45 p.m.

@#42
to be fair, makoto didnt just get small tweaks. Good deal of things are easily noticeable compared to AE. While still had nothing to do with the game engine still but she did have alot of big things change which helped greatly.

@#40
lol grimm capcom still been pretty silent about AE dlc, nothing set in stone yet. The main problem with AE that no one seems to talk about, its how it f*cks up this years evo. Japanese and alot of the known pros in America are all focused on AE while everyone else is stuck on regular ssf4, and evo is using ssf4. Things are gonna look real messy. Hopefully mvc3 saves the day.

#43
BisonBetterBeGoodInSSF4 said on February 16, 2011 at 6 p.m.

@30

hahaha Nemo is the best Chun out there. hes not your average guy. but it looks like you seem to rely only on Daigos words (even though Tokido and Mago were in the list too). fanboy much?

i dont care anymore you guys can bitch and complain till your mouths falls off, im still playing Bison and Ibuki. i'll try out Ryu too now that the wagon is clear for some room. i will play Yun and Yang for fun just to try them out, not going to get into them. if i sound weird its because im listening to some epic music right now so...

#44
BisonBetterBeGoodInSSF4 said on February 16, 2011 at 6:03 p.m.

@37

your friend sounds like hes a smart guy. everyone is like that (well mostly everyone). even when they play with the best characters, they somehow have the nerve to say that their character is no good.

#45
Grimmjow316 said on February 16, 2011 at 6:10 p.m.

Let capcom fail as messed up as it sounds its there fault case in point the eryu and ONI fiasco sigh but seriously it just doesn't like my cup of tea especially after the last tourneys were they get away with a lot of safe ish

#46
Cauptain said on February 16, 2011 at 6:19 p.m.

@44

Any japaneses players are better than USA players.

God Umehara win champions, Nemo no.

I'm not trippin with this game, much less if the tiers lists are true.

The CRAPCOM lost his way in attempt to balance the game.

Ono is an i.d.i.o.t. s.t.u.p.i.d he opens his mouth to say that: 'the game unbalanced is better".

Worse is that you seem to like the philosophy of donkeys. poor creature.

SSFIV AE, the most I.M.B.E.C.I.L.E game from Street Fighter series.

#47
dondb said on February 16, 2011 at 6:39 p.m.

I -->REALLY<-- hope they re-balance it before it is released to console. To release such a lopsided version of street fighter would be a major let down to the series.

#48
scherz said on February 16, 2011 at 8:07 p.m.

i really expect capcom to balance ssf4 AE before it's PC release. I'm just saying...

#49
MALDA said on February 16, 2011 at 8:11 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#50
MALDA said on February 16, 2011 at 8:12 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#51
Cauptain said on February 16, 2011 at 8:56 p.m.

MALDA

Do you think I'm a bad person just because I own opinions and do not accept the nonsense said and done by CRAPCOM?

You should have mental problems. Patience.

#52
JIHADJOE said on February 16, 2011 at 9:30 p.m.

I want SSF4 'No Nerfs' Edition.

Just take the most powerful form of each character from SF4 up until AE, put them together in a game and voila! We can have Vanilla Sagat vs Vanilla Akuma vs AE Makoto vs Yun, Yang, etc.

MvC3 is looking loads of fun, and partly because every character seems to be quite good at dishing damage.

#53
MALDA said on February 16, 2011 at 10:10 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#54
andyknigth said on February 16, 2011 at 11:47 p.m.

@JIHADJOE you are on point, i mean make every body have a chance so no one complaints about how slow or fast their characters are!! i would love to have a vega that has a better recovery from his swan dive when it is blocked, he bounces too much and you could actually jump after you block and attack him, for a move that bounces of the wall and it is prone to attack at any time, then he now gets slow recovery and also want my vega to have a proper anti air flip kick i mean shotos can always jump hard punch, kick it at any time then some times the just cross it up. and why on earth is their jump in hard punch so deceptive it can cross you up and you can't determine where they are that is so wrong if it was kick i would understand. vega again should be given a cross up with his jump in medium kick and his ex barcelona spin should not have a slow start up his hard punch version is already like that and it should be used as a suprise attack for all this freaking fire ball characters, going through their fire ball. and his back flip one of them should have a faster recovery than the other, either the one flip or the double flip, his reversal anti air flip kick should go through fire balls or if not that the Ex version that is it for vega and then lets battle.

#55
Osbjorn said on February 17, 2011 at 12:23 a.m.

It's funny cause people think tier lists actually mean something, just because someone is 20 tiers above somebody else does not mean anything, a tier list is based on how many good match ups the character has compared to the rest of the cast, that does not mean a low level yun is gonna beat a high level hakan before the match begins, its all about how much skill you have! skill>tiers

#56
Paine said on February 17, 2011 at 1:48 a.m.

@16

I would rather see a free flow character like Yun be top tier then Sagat or Ryu.

#57
MadnessFamilyguile said on February 17, 2011 at 2:11 a.m.

Wow, didn't see something like that when super came out. Guess that's what happens when most characters get nerfed, some characters like blanka and guile just get hated on...and some characters get unexplained love like adon and fei long.

And that's why they should have left well enough alone and not try to please people who don't know what they are doing

#58
DeadlyMoves said on February 17, 2011 at 2:12 a.m.

@ 44
Why on earth would you wonna try out Ryu? After Guile, hes the most boring character in the game. If you wonna try out a Shoto. go for Ken, Akuma or even Dan.

#59
Cauptain said on February 17, 2011 at 4:04 a.m.

MALDA

Sorry guy, I posted in beserk mode. My apologies.

Cauptain

#60
JIHADJOE said on February 17, 2011 at 4:36 a.m.

@55
I have a friend who played Vega since ST. He was hella pissed when we went into SF4 and found walldive shenanigans didn't work anywhere near as well.

#61
Grimmjow316 said on February 17, 2011 at 5:54 a.m.

@56 you do no that list are also based on high level play If it was anyone it wouldn't be as relevant people will always say skill>tier which is part true but FT10 and it won't mean much example wongs makoto against gamerbees adon the only reason he lost was due to match up experience even though adon does beat her prettyl well.

#62
BisonBetterBeGoodInSSF4 said on February 17, 2011 at 8:15 a.m.

@59

Ryu was one of the characters i have always played since SF2 (for fun). SF4 is my first "competetive" game ive played, so in SF2 and SFA where Ryu was top, i still played him. in SF4 because the amount of Ryus has sky rocketed its just not worth it to try and compete. with SSF4:AE the majority of character usage will be Fei Yun and Yang. ive also played Akuma and Ken in past SF games as well, and ive played them in SSF4 too, but Ryu i couldnt. he may be boring to some people but hes one of my fav characters so...

#63
DeadlyMoves said on February 17, 2011 at 8:43 a.m.

@ 63
You do know that after the initial hype. No one will give a crap about the twins anymore and just revert back to using the easy shoto's and Sagat.

#64
Blanks said on February 17, 2011 at 11:48 a.m.

In interviews Ono has referred to actually wanting unbalanced characters. He thinks it makes the game more fun. I'm tired of being disappointed by balance decisions... :'(
What can you do?

#65
Blanks said on February 17, 2011 at 11:50 a.m.

^^^
Play another game.

#66
BisonBetterBeGoodInSSF4 said on February 17, 2011 at 1:10 p.m.

@64

i'll take my chances. and i doubt that will happen. people care about winning more than learning so once they put time and effort into learning a character they wont bother switching. besides no one went back to Sagat in Super. they either moved to someone old or new. hardly anyone i know still plays Sagat.

#67
Kennn said on February 17, 2011 at 1:24 p.m.

i remember when i said they should have left good characters like ryu etc.. as he was(SSF4), and buff the weaker characters. everyone on eventhubs got on me. now mike ross says it, and everyone on event hubs is sucking his penis. i said the exact same thing long before mike ross did. now its too late, and the same fools are here crying about nerfs this, nerfs that. how pityful

#68
Grimmjow316 said on February 17, 2011 at 2:37 p.m.

@68 see the thing was nerfs were needed but not in the areas where they choose example blanks, guile & el fuerte as compared to abel only his u2 is what needed a nerf and that was it not the whole thing he ended up getting. Also lol at trying to sound like your the only one there was a line way before saying the same thing bub

#69
Cauptain said on February 17, 2011 at 3 p.m.

God did not doubt what I say now:

CRAPCOM YOSHIMORI "OMO",NEVER going to learn to balance a game...NEVER!!

He was the "worst producer" on Street Fighter.

#70
Kennn said on February 17, 2011 at 5:17 p.m.

Grimmjow316 IM not trying to sound like anything. if u read, i said what actually happened. on event hubs when i said this, EVERYONE (not everyone) ridiculed me, and not 1 person took my side. so yes on here I WAS THE ONLY ONE. lol what ever line ur refering too were ABSENT, I DOnt want to have to find the article lol. now, i cant speak for any other site/person etc... but on here - eventhubs dotcom - yes it was just me vs idiots who are crying today about nerfs. also, the line was way before what? u dont even have a clue when i said what i said... jeez, dont make crap up as u type

#71
Kennn said on February 17, 2011 at 5:23 p.m.

anyway i dont want a fight.. i just find it funny thats all. when things turn out bad everyone cries, and sucks mike ross' penis. they will never consider views from a nobody which is why i find it funny. none of what im saying is directed at you btw, i just want to make that clear

#72
Grimmjow316 said on February 18, 2011 at 12:09 a.m.

I call bs i've seen other say it as well before you (most were Ryu mains) honestly you just want too feel special that is all.

Also line as in a line of people that have been saying that so I'm not making crap up as you say.

#73
Kennn said on February 18, 2011 at 2:33 a.m.

you're an idiot who cant read. i said i wasnt the 1st cos i cant speak for everyone. i said im not trying to claim anything cos this actually happened, dumbass. all im doing is explainging what happened, on eventhubs where i got mauled bu idiots for speaking these words. so i find it funny now how they are crying. if u dont understand what im saying, then you must be one of the idiots who got on me lol. no wonder ur so offended. makes sense now. and u make no sense, couz u dont know when i 1st said this, so how could u have seen people say it before me??? anyway i dont care who said it 1st. thats not even my point, so try and understand what im saying about the mentality of people on here, and get off the who said what 1st lol

#74
Grimmjow316 said on February 18, 2011 at noon

Ha learn to spell your raging makes me laugh anyways you just make a big deal cause blah blah Mike Ross said it and some agree if you didn't care why say it so what if people got on you before nerfs & buffs were completly revealed apparently it got to you because you felt the need mention it. Also like I mentioned before buffing the lower wouldn't completely help if you still cant get in on certain characters not that I agree with the measures they took. Anyways I never insulted you like calling you names so refer from the such because as it stands now it doesn't make you sound any better

#75
Grimmjow316 said on February 18, 2011 at 12:26 p.m.

Guess we will leave it agree to disagree

#76
Kennn said on February 18, 2011 at 1:59 p.m.

what are u talking about? care about what? i just said i find it funny, the same site that got on me, are now sharing the same sentiments, cause so and so said it. that was all i said. i made no big deal out of it, ur the one that started making it out that i was implying only I SAID IT/or that i said it 1st. Look at your post #73. all i was doing was telling the experience i had with these funny people on eventhubs, ur calling BS on stuff i never said, so i felt what an idiot. i apologise for that, but the community is a lot bigger than event hubs, i was only refering to this site.

#77
Grimmjow316 said on February 18, 2011 at 6:45 p.m.

Well I apologize for the snide remarks I took offense on how you bunched everyone at first I missed the smaller comment

#78


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