^cuz he's a shoto who's tamed enough to not have a DP
sad but true.
@1 People say he is not suited for high level matches. I main him and I really have fun playing him, he can do good chunks of damage. If you are interested, try looking for Desora, Bullcat or ViperRx on youtube.
Also, that was a nice video, I will try these and see how it goes. I was worried about Juri's wheel (or whatever this is called) but I'm glad PhunkSim covered this too.
Desora, Bullcat & ViperRx. Some of the sickest Goukens out there :D
simply put, gouken suffers a lot for not having any wake up options, knockdowns on gouken effect him a lot.. and his normals aren't nearly as fast enough to continuously apply pressure..
he isn't particularly good at rushdown
he isn't particularly good at zoning
but if you know your stuff, you can easily fill those gaps with a lot traps and know-how..
@Paine
He was saying that his lack of a Shoryuken is why he isn't used in competitive matches. That's not why, it's as simple as that. He's not used because his frame data is very bad on most of his normal attacks. That lack of positive frames bleeds into every other aspect of the game. Gouken is not supposed to have a normal SRK, nor does he need one.
That's all you need really. Cr.fierce can also be useful depending on the angle of jump in.
Doesn't make much sense to ignore his moves to prove a point. One could just say "take away sim's fireballs and his limbs, what does he really have?".
Like all matchups, zoning effectiveness varies. Some characters have ways around fireballs but at the cost of an EX bar. I think you're underestimating Gouken's zoning potential.
CR.HP is too slow.. and gets stuffed pretty easy..
Gouken has amazing potential, i'm just saying that when it boils down to zoning, he has to put in extra work and because of this, he isn't an openly used tourney character..
Gouken's strength lies within his comboability.. you have to be methodical to be good with gouken..
"simply put, gouken suffers a lot for not having any wake up options, knockdowns on gouken effect him a lot.. and his normals aren't nearly as fast enough to continuously apply pressure..
he isn't particularly good at rushdown
he isn't particularly good at zoning"
Hahaha what? You're obviously using the DP as a crutch and don't know your games well enough.
Anti Air: Fast fireballs at 3 angles, counters, hurrican kick.
If they fireball: If at medium range do palm strike, or fireball your self
To attack: Palm strike, summersault or palm strike.
Wakeup: counters, block, throw
Poking: Light punch is awesome
He's a FORTRESS that can also attack. Spend less time on combos and actually use all his moves. Predict your opponent and mix up your stuff and they can't do much.
i thought before seing the video it was going to be safe jumps against 3frames dragons. Ok i was wronged, he really hasn't any safe jump against 3frames dragons :)
this video is mostly about (nice) reset, but not really safe jump. Oh well anybody can safe jump cammy or balrog since their reversal is sooo long
Once you've got Gouken down, it's rather easy to never let him get up and he is game over. Only top-play, or totally irradical play, that can get him out of pressure by luck, can save him. His comeback game is among the strongest in game (almost like vanilla-Sagat), so once he has meter and ultra, don't lose momentum :D
I main him and I will give you the number 1 reason people dont use him because all of Goukens special moves lose to the ex forward down down/forward move that everyone use to get out of trouble. ex running palm loses ex tasu loses and ex parry loses if you dont get the first hit because it takes him longer to recover from it than a W DP
i didnt finish from above. Gouken needs armor for his ex palm or the ex parry needs to do chip damage. Then when the match is close i could just get close and pull off my God like move for the win like all the rest of them. But if gouken had these then everyone would play him and Capcom would have to use a old looking bald guy for a mascot, and that just dont sell games as well... gen players are you reading this. So we get two young cool guys and one of then is the best in the game they are saying and diago drops ryu for him. New/old player get s tier and the most popular ssfv player just happens to to play him...... wonder if he is getting a kick back from capcom??????????
Since I main Gouken, I figure I can offer my opinions on this matter. Yes, he's a fotress that can attack, but any fortress will fall due constant bombardment (example; the Rog vs Gouken match is 6-4 in Rogs favor. He will rush him to death. Just my opinion.) Basically, if he's rushed down, he'll be in big trouble. His zoning, imo, is exceptionally good. Sure, he has to be careful of multi-hit fireballs, but he deal with'em by either blocking the 2nd hit as is comin, or FA it. This'll only work on 2hit fireballs (Ryu's & Ken's, in particular. I haven't tested it on Rose, though.) He doesn't have a reliable wake up game (2 of his "wake up" moves are insanely easy to bait & he'll get punished bad). Knowing the match-up & having a good understanding of your opponents choice of character will help a lot. He maybe a shoto, but he lacks a good way to poke & fireball (example; Ryu, Ken & Akuma can cancel into a fireball after a c.MK & c.MP. Gouken can only do it after a standing or crouching HP). Still, he inflicts great damage & nice stun on his combos. Imo, he's one of the few that escaped the damage nerf when he made the transition to SSF4 (I nearly took half of a fei players life in one combo. I believe it was on counter hit, though). Plus his staple combo (standing or crouching HP-EX palm-HK tatsu) doesn't require FADC & it does nice damage & good stun. Like I said, just my opinion.
Why does nobody play this killing machine?