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Daigo considers Ryu, Akuma and Cammy to be the best in AE 2012

Posted by Nate 'Nyoro' Young • December 28, 2011 at 10:57 a.m. PST
Daigo considers Ryu, Akuma and Cammy to be the best in AE 2012 Hsien Chang managed to pick up Daigo's opinions on AE 2012 and its character balance. The summary of them is provided below.

Ryu, Cammy and Akuma are the best characters in the game.

The twins are now middle-tier.

Fei Long is high-tier.

Seth and Sagat are high-tier but have bad matchups.

Every character minus Chun-li, Dhalsim, Gouken, Rose, Gen, Dan, T-Hawk, Deejay, Guy, Hakan, Oni, and Evil-Ryu have the potential to be high-tier.

More interesting things about Daigo can be read at Hsien's blog. Be sure to leave your opinion about these characters below, such as the implication that certain characters cannot rise above the middle-tier.

Comments

Oroku_Saki said on December 28, 2011 at 11:01 a.m.

I consider anyone Daigo to be using as high-tier even if it's a one-legged Fei Long.
I still main random select as my character though.

#1
zUkUu said on December 28, 2011 at 11:01 a.m.

ryu over sagat? Oo
also, chun IS high tier. gouken has the potencial aswell if developed by the right player.

#2
coldviper18 said on December 28, 2011 at 11:01 a.m.

Great, so ALL the characters I like using suck according to the beast.

#3
doublef said on December 28, 2011 at 11:02 a.m.

i'm sure James Chen will still find a reason to complain about Cammy

#4
coldviper18 said on December 28, 2011 at 11:03 a.m.

I do find it interesting that Chun, Sim and Rose are on that list of suck though.

#5
kpxcho said on December 28, 2011 at 11:04 a.m.

^ i wish i could "like" doublef's comment

#6
i208khonsu said on December 28, 2011 at 11:04 a.m.

@1 If he didn't play a top tier character then he wouldn't be Daigo. Part of a players ability to be good is their ability to identify characters who have minimal weaknesses and capitalize on their strengths.

#7
TKira said on December 28, 2011 at 11:06 a.m.

I'm with gief on the neutral zone and happy with that.

#8
doublef said on December 28, 2011 at 11:06 a.m.

wait a minute.... didn't Daigo also predict that Zangief would be S+ tier in AE last year?

#9
Sunforged_One said on December 28, 2011 at 11:07 a.m.

I still don't understand why Oni should be a down-tier character.
I totally agree with for example Deejay, Dan or Hakan to be down tier. But I see as much potential in Chun-Li, Oni or even Evil Ryu as in for example Guile or Zangief.

#10
Akro said on December 28, 2011 at 11:09 a.m.

@ Doublef, if by Zangief you mean Yun, then yes, I do recall him saying that.

He and Mago dicussed Yun, Fei Long, and C. Viper as the best.

#11
doublef said on December 28, 2011 at 11:13 a.m.

@akro
I know he changed it and put Yun on top.

but i'm talking about REAL early when AE was first hitting arcades in Japan, there were a couple weeks where he was saying Zangief would be #1

#12
caruga said on December 28, 2011 at 11:14 a.m.

Wow, what a profound insight into the thinking of a Master player... oh wait, he didn't give his reasons at all. :(

#13
abdelmajidtolba said on December 28, 2011 at 11:18 a.m.

flat chested bltch high tier?yeah,and i am Mago.
she still like in AE,the fact that yun,yang were nerfed,changes jack shlt.

#14
GokaiGreen said on December 28, 2011 at 11:18 a.m.

(This user was banned.)

#15
bullitt23 said on December 28, 2011 at 11:19 a.m.

We will boot up this game tonight and be greeted with waves of new ryu's, akuma's and cammy's.

#16
Hitstick said on December 28, 2011 at 11:22 a.m.

Who can say that a guy who changes characters constantly speaks the truth?

First Ryu's changes were pointless now he is the best.

There is no such thing as a tier list these guys truth of yesterday is debunked by their truth today, it ain't the Truth.

any character has the ability to be top tier.

#17
SAMURAI said on December 28, 2011 at 11:24 a.m.

Cammy is definitely high tier. Alioune didn't pick her back up for nothing.

#18
jhayze said on December 28, 2011 at 11:24 a.m.

chunli and rose r already considered high tier... for christ fckng sake their back-dash is already broken!

lately online there's a lot of scrubs playing a lame keep away fireball zone with akuma!

t.hawk players online... its neither they mash both dp n spd! *facepalm*

players online abuse deejay knee-shot so much!

oni, gen, gouken, guy, takes skills so im looking forward to this!

twins are definitely mid-tier now, fei long is still good!

dont even let me start with ryu!

#19
THE_GODDAMN_MASTER said on December 28, 2011 at 11:24 a.m.

Wow. Putting Chun-Li in the same tier as T. Hawk.
That's...suspicious.

#20
DeckedValley said on December 28, 2011 at 11:26 a.m.

#14 Pretty sure it gives characters who had bad match-ups against the twins (which is practically everyone) a chance now. Cammy included. But why am even bothering when it seems like you based her potential on how big her boobs are.

#21
sprflyspdrguy said on December 28, 2011 at 11:28 a.m.

Daigo says you have no escuses.

#22
Lemres said on December 28, 2011 at 11:28 a.m.

yay for ibuki!

#23
aridarron said on December 28, 2011 at 11:30 a.m.

I'll wait for next year's EVO, I won't take his word for it, I lost all faith in him after he got whooped so badly in EVO, I'll faster believe Justin Wong's predictions and besides isn't it too early to start talking about tiers? I doubt the Japanese found all the undocumented changes already.

#24
DarkPhoenixRises said on December 28, 2011 at 11:33 a.m.

I have yet to touch AE but is Evil Ryu that much worse than Ryu? WTF LMAO so what was the point of adding him again? Is his story scences spectacular?

#25
BisonBetterBeGoodInSSF4 said on December 28, 2011 at 11:38 a.m.

@19

"chunli and rose r already considered high tier... for christ sake their back-dash is already broken!"

its called an Option Select buddy. learn to use it lol. ive heard of people complaining about dive kicks and how they're "broken" but back dashes? hahaha whats next Rogs jabs are broken too? give me a break kiddo.

#26
NightmareBooster said on December 28, 2011 at 11:41 a.m.

Wait, Chun-Li, Evil Ryu and Rose don't have the "potential to be high-tier", but Claw does? Or did Daigo just forget that Vega exists?

#27
C_DUB said on December 28, 2011 at 11:44 a.m.

I need more info about makoto, is there some hidden nerf thats hindering my play that I'm just not seeing? Or buff that's benefiting it?

#28
Brillz said on December 28, 2011 at 11:44 a.m.

#28 There is a lot of good Claws i japan.

Chun and rose backdash/poke mashing is just good against medicore players.

Akuma and Ryu are simply better characters than e.ryu.

#29
NINJA said on December 28, 2011 at 11:45 a.m.

Daigo is a great player but this is non-sense. Rose is a complete beast in this version. No way to deny it.

#30
krazhy said on December 28, 2011 at 11:46 a.m.

Where is Daigo getting the impression that Cammy is the best, i mean she is good but, sagat/seth/viper, all do much better at tourneys?? I haven't seen any good Cammy players do well in tournaments, kindevu, justin wong, both used her and got beat in the early stages, please explain someone???

#31
OmegaWolf said on December 28, 2011 at 11:46 a.m.

The only reason I can see that Daigo put Chun on that list is because almost no one over there plays her since AE released. She was still really good in AE and is even better now. Anyway, to each his own. I've never really agreed with him when it comes to tiers anyway. I'm glad he is playing Ryu again.

#32
redfactor said on December 28, 2011 at 11:49 a.m.

I asked Xian on stream earlier his thoughts on Vega. He said he was still bad, not sure how Daigo thinks Vega has the potential for high tier??

#33
U4iA27 said on December 28, 2011 at 11:50 a.m.

So long as oni's fireball remains ass, he will remain mid-low tier.

#34
Endgame said on December 28, 2011 at 11:59 a.m.

Can someone explain what buffs Akuma got that makes him one of the the best characters in the game?

#35
elscrubby said on December 28, 2011 at 12:01 p.m.

El Fuerte for high tier .... Really ? If so happy days. In my experience he has been boosted to mid at best but increase in shotos = more wins .

#36
Endgame said on December 28, 2011 at 12:02 p.m.

Lol, does he believe El Fuerte can be high tier too? Wouldn't that be interesting to see a lot more Fuertes being used.

#37
elscrubby said on December 28, 2011 at 12:04 p.m.

Yes I love Elf but as annoying as the mirror match is I have only fought about 12 in 2 years of this game. I use the unfamiliarity to my advantage so I can not categorically state whether or not he is high tier. Also any thoughts on Adon and Guy ?

#38
Shinebox said on December 28, 2011 at 12:05 p.m.

He said those characters do have potential because there are videos of each one of those kicking his Ryu's ass. He doesn't want people to play them :P

#39
Shinebox said on December 28, 2011 at 12:06 p.m.

I mean to say do not have potential

#40
HolyGhost said on December 28, 2011 at 12:25 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#41
SHOGUN said on December 28, 2011 at 12:30 p.m.

"The best Jerry, THE BEST!"

-Kenny Bania

#42
Endgame said on December 28, 2011 at 12:32 p.m.

#40

I play Guy, and I do not beleive he will be low-tier like he was in the previous iterations. I'll say at least middle tier, he has pretty good tools, and they have only gotten better in each iteration.

#43
TheShotokan said on December 28, 2011 at 12:37 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#44
Jammy said on December 28, 2011 at 12:38 p.m.

#39 A Elf did just get 3rd at SCR.

Also a lot of characters have very little representation or none whatsoever in higher levels of play so a lot of characters can still be cracked open.

#45
xeraton said on December 28, 2011 at 12:41 p.m.

didn't know that getting 4th at evo meant you got your ass whooped and your opinions no longer mattered.

#46
RA_MO said on December 28, 2011 at 12:45 p.m.

I think maybe Daigo put Chun in the low section of it because he knows she is strong and wants no one to touch her so he can dominate tourneys again lol. I am just joking but whatever reasons he has... Just play who you love playing.. Not due to some pro's opinion of the game.

#47
TheMasterPlayer said on December 28, 2011 at 12:54 p.m.

I think that M.Bison (Dictator) is the S-tier in this game (as with all the previous iterations actually) simply because he does not have a single "bad" match-up. My opinion though.

#48
Anon said on December 28, 2011 at 12:55 p.m.

Hmm...how does Hsien Chang know that Daigo said this?

#49
TheRedCyclone said on December 28, 2011 at 12:57 p.m.

Oh well, at least I still have my tried-and-true M. Bison and Zangief.

Also, I know Oni has a garbage fireball, but does anybody know any other huge weaknesses he has? I'd just like to know why he was put in the lower tier.

#50
L45R said on December 28, 2011 at 1:10 p.m.

@1

Please...I'll bet with my life that Daigo can't use T.Hawk and win EVO next year..

Player matters of course...but characters themselves matters too.

#51
SHOGUN said on December 28, 2011 at 1:10 p.m.

#50, what do you mean no bad matchups? Guile is his worst match-up BUT is beatable if you know what you're doing and play the match damn near perfect. On paper though, that matchup is totally in Guile's favor.

#52
adimare said on December 28, 2011 at 1:10 p.m.

@25
If EVO results are so damn important to you, why would you rather believe what a guy that didn't even get to top 8 says over a guy that finished 4th?

#53
NMS84 said on December 28, 2011 at 1:17 p.m.

@ #50, "TheMasterPlayer". Yeah, Bison doesn't have any bad match-ups. Guile vs. Bison is 7-3, almost 8-2. Easily one of the worst match-ups in the game. Bison also struggles against both Gief and Chunners.

#54
NMS84 said on December 28, 2011 at 1:21 p.m.

...and Honda. But that might just be my Bison.

#55
bananainsaneface said on December 28, 2011 at 1:22 p.m.

Great now those people that complain about Ryu being overpowered in every article are gonna come back.

#56
NINJA said on December 28, 2011 at 1:22 p.m.

@TheShotokan, Ryu the hardest character to use? Good try.

#57
NerfGuile said on December 28, 2011 at 1:22 p.m.

lol.

James Chen and Ultra David, don't even consider Cammy top 10. I always get a kick out of those guys theory fighting on streams. Now that Yun isn't in the game anymore, i wonder what James' new excuse is?

And where is the GDAMNMASTER? Wasn't he crying like the little baby he is when the change logs were release?

#58
BlankaBeast said on December 28, 2011 at 1:22 p.m.

Disagree with almost the entire bottom list. Any character can be great in 2012.

#59
Hakansoilbarrel said on December 28, 2011 at 1:24 p.m.

(In before tiers don't matter and Daigo is a hack

...damn.)

#60
Akua said on December 28, 2011 at 1:25 p.m.

I got an idea! Let's listen to his opinions but don't write them down as laws....

#61
Vandal_Vortex said on December 28, 2011 at 1:27 p.m.

@TheRedCyclone

well if you take away akuma's demon flip and and air fireball and replace it with garbage you get oni, well I think thats all for todays lesson :)lol

#62
bananainsaneface said on December 28, 2011 at 1:30 p.m.

Daigo never said Zangief was top tier in AE. He just said Zangief was a viable counter to the top tier (i.e. the twins).

#63
Akua said on December 28, 2011 at 1:33 p.m.

@39. Didn't you watch SCR? iPeru took 3rd with fuerte. He beat Latif for it and I know there are better Fuerte players out there.

#64
Norifumi155 said on December 28, 2011 at 1:36 p.m.

I personally think it's funny that a bunch of no name scrubs who never been to a tournament let alone won one are arguing with Daigo's opinion. Daigo, who has been in the FGC and considered practically number 1 longer than most of you have been gamers, and won more tourneys than most of you have video games. This is his life, his job (of many), he's sponsored to win.. who are you again? someone who plays online and complains about characters you can't beat so you cry on forums for nerfs? lol.

Get better, and stop worrying what Daigo says.

#65
MrPavy said on December 28, 2011 at 1:36 p.m.

dudley can be high tier too :< and lol @ people thinking hakan has a chance

#66
Norifumi155 said on December 28, 2011 at 1:38 p.m.

people who want tiers are people who don't want to get better, they just want easy wins. Pros figure characters out themselves. Scrubs want others to figure people out for them

#67
xShonuffx said on December 28, 2011 at 1:39 p.m.

Opinion is still an opinion.

#68
AceKombat said on December 28, 2011 at 1:41 p.m.

#27

Yea Option Selects can sometimes blow up people like Chun and Rose even though they have the most derpy back-dashes in the game . But , people like Chun and Rose can also Option Select back-dash as well to make it even more safer by focus attack+throw~back-dash...

#44

lol :)

#59

In high level play , he is not that autopilot or easy to master . Even Fuudo said that he is a very difficult character to master.

He's going to be good , but the only successful ones will be the ones who put a lot of effort in him since almost everyone knows how to play against him .

#69
JinZo said on December 28, 2011 at 1:44 p.m.

It's amusing how people get butthurt over what tier their mains are classified by the Beast.

#70
PeperonePower said on December 28, 2011 at 1:53 p.m.

Why people are getting mad at this? It's just his opinion lol.

Imo Evil Ryu and Chun-li are not low tier.People get mad at me please!

#71
Keep_It_Flashy said on December 28, 2011 at 1:54 p.m.

Just one question.

What makes Cammy top tier that she didnt have in AE?

And lol at dudley being above low-tier. He can win if he get's in but he has such bad matchup like zangief, guile,dhalsim, etc.

#72
gaffel123 said on December 28, 2011 at 2:03 p.m.

@74 nerfing the twins and fei long makes her top tier in this game and also daigo saw her as high tier even in AE vanilla

#73
lukecage83 said on December 28, 2011 at 2:05 p.m.

@74: Amen

#74
konachin said on December 28, 2011 at 2:05 p.m.

Remember, people, this is the opinion of someone who said Seth was low tier in AE, he might be the best player in this game, but that doesn't stop him to say stupid things. I agree on Akuma though, in my opinion he is the best in the game, number 1, just very hard to dominate all his aspects, but in my it's impossible too see how any other character compares to him, he just has everything he needs and even more, for the exchange of 50 points of life if you compare to chars like Gen, Chun and other with 900 life. People really think 850 is fair in a character like this? It's obvious he is too much.

#75
lukecage83 said on December 28, 2011 at 2:06 p.m.

I'm still sticking with Dudley though. Is it me, or is the ability to FADC out of a rose taunt pretty f*ckin' useless?

#76
THE_GODDAMN_MASTER said on December 28, 2011 at 2:08 p.m.

@60: My God, you're butthurt, aren't you?
You bitch about UltraDavid and Gems Chen for no reason other than you want to get a rise out of people, then start whining about me for no reason other than I get under your skin by disagreeing with you...

#77
Temtt said on December 28, 2011 at 2:11 p.m.

"Every character minus Chun-li, Dhalsim, Gouken, Rose, Gen, Dan, T-Hawk, Deejay, Guy, Hakan, Oni, and Evil-Ryu have the potential to be high-tier."

That doesn't mean they are low-tier. They can still be upper mid-tier!

#78
Super_Shoto_Fighter_4 said on December 28, 2011 at 2:19 p.m.

It's too early for tiers. I think we need to see a few more tournaments before we can see who the best characters are.
I feel Ryu has over taken Ken and Akuma as the best Shoto.

In general I think any character can be A tier in this version of the game. Rufus and Sakura are 2 of many characters in the game that can turn a 4-6 match into a 7-3 match up just by knocking them down or putting the opponent in the corner.

I don't the tiers are important anymore. Everyone who has been playing this game since 09 knows what to do by now. I respect Daigo, but at the end of the day words and theory fighting don't mean anything in tournament play.

#79
Super_Honda said on December 28, 2011 at 2:21 p.m.

From my experience, I do agree that Cammy is very strong and that she can be in the top 5. However, as for Ryu and Akuma, I'm not too sure about them 2 being the best characters in the game because in my opinion, Akuma is in the top 10 and Ryu is a mid-tier to high-mid tier. For Ryu, here's why: even though Ryu has improved, only very few players in the world can maximise Ryu's overall potential and Daigo is 1 of those players. Ryu at its best is definitely in the top 6 when you include those players. But, if you don't include those players, then Ryu is simply a mid-tier to high-mid tier for the rest of the world. Imo, AE 2012 has many characters that could be in the high tier.

#80
Hazzird said on December 28, 2011 at 2:21 p.m.

honestly don't think this really matters...wait for tournament results in 2012 because thats what really matters because if SCR was any indication of how 2012 will go then i look forward to seeing different characters/players winning and not just 1 or 2 top tier characters.

#81
GW said on December 28, 2011 at 2:24 p.m.

I'm surprised Seth isn't top tier :/

Akuma has problems with Seth though (imo) since seth's u1 is back to the way it was. It stops jump ins, fire balls, air fireballs, mid ranged standing hard kick, demon flips, teleports etc. I reckon the seth matchup is even at start but when seth gets ultra 1 it's clearly in his favor.

#82
SaintAvi said on December 28, 2011 at 2:35 p.m.

Daigo is talented but not infallible

#83
abdelmajidtolba said on December 28, 2011 at 2:36 p.m.

#66
latif beaten by iperu doesnt mean fuertew is good,it means latif doesnt know the matchup,but he got his revenge on a first to 5 later.
in general its not the fact that daigo was giving general matchup thoughts that we can take them for fact.
people have to understand that our appreciation are biaised by our results.
mago consider guile high.
also those pro play only against other pro.they see the potential of the player not the character.
Example :if daigo plays against 100 cammy scrub,what in your opinion he might say?
now against 100 pro cammy?
the day people understand the illusionary meaning of tier ranking,the FGC will do a huge leap forward.........

#84
Maryokutai said on December 28, 2011 at 2:39 p.m.

Great, I started using Cammy two weeks ago. Guess I better prepare for the shîtstorm coming my way teling me I’m a tier-wh***.

#85
hyerty said on December 28, 2011 at 2:41 p.m.

Mbison has plenty of bad matchups.

Guile, Zangief, T-hawk, maybe honda.

#86
Asmiliz said on December 28, 2011 at 2:46 p.m.

#36
Whats wrong with Dudley? I think hes pretty good in Ae. Still have to wait for AE2012 on my Pc, but its defenetly not as high of a gap as Super Makoto to AE Makoto, if dudley is high tier now.

#19 Gouken requires skill? Hes one of the easiest characters to win with. I dont think i have actually seen a skilled gouken, under 3000pp. the only 2 characters that require less skill in mid level are Blanka and Dictator, Juri is pretty close too thou.

#87
Asmiliz said on December 28, 2011 at 3 p.m.

#87
Thats wrong, sure it will influence it, but if you understand the game to a certain degree a lot of things just become a theory. Tier rankings are theories. They see wich move beats wich, who has more health, more damage potential, better options, safer mixups, better hitboxes. And especially the japanese compare the strenght of moves to how safe they are, and add that up.
Fei long wasnt beeing considered strong because there was a good player, but because his normals are strong, his rekkas are the best footsie tool in the game, his chicken wing gets him out and in easily and pretty safe, and his DP has a good priority. and he has no real weakness either. Thats what made him top tier in AE, not Fuudo or Mago. Of course there sometimes has to be a Poongko or Uryo to actually show off the strenghts of their character cause you have to actually see and feel the strenght of a character through a good player to actuaslly be able to compare and make your theorie of that characters tier ranking.

#88
Existent said on December 28, 2011 at 3:03 p.m.

@90
"Gouken requires skill? Hes one of the easiest characters to win with."
That dropped his credibility to zero.

#89
VolcanicAkuma55 said on December 28, 2011 at 3:12 p.m.

@37 he didnt get any buffs (meaningful buffs mind u), he only moved up in tiers cuz fei and the twins got nerfed.

#90
abdelmajidtolba said on December 28, 2011 at 3:14 p.m.

thanks for clarifying,i didnt see it from that perspective.
actually fei long for me is still garbage,maybe i didnt play agains particularily strong one.though i hate to play against guy.for me he looks like dhalsim,i mean i still dont get the range of his normals!!
chun is only strong because there is Y24 and pipi,levy and efute.
we will accept sh'es high tier when we will see her actually winning something outside of 3s.
for now we just play the damn game and have fun

#91
BlankaBeast said on December 28, 2011 at 3:14 p.m.

Anyone can be top tier in this game

-BlankaBeast.

#92
TheRedCyclone said on December 28, 2011 at 3:20 p.m.

@89

completely agree.

Also, why are people calling M. Bison a skill-less scrub character? I'm being honest, I realize he's a good character, I just don't see how he's THAT good.

#93
Raven said on December 28, 2011 at 3:23 p.m.

The problem with Dudley is there is no parry in this game, so his ability to get in on some characters is difficult (even with duck).

Dhalsim, Ryu, Sagat, Guile, Chun-Li, Akuma, Zangief, etc. can all give him nightmares. xD

#94
DarknessFallz said on December 28, 2011 at 3:27 p.m.

Wow a fair bit of characters are excluded from potentially being high tier according to Daigo although I guess everyone else is ok? I'm not surprised about rose, Dan, and Hakan being on the list though.

#95
jimsauce said on December 28, 2011 at 3:30 p.m.

Tier lists only apply to your own relative skill. What's S-tier to Daigo won't be S-tier to you and me. When Daigo speaks about tiers it really only applies to the top 100 or so players in the world.

#96
aridarron said on December 28, 2011 at 3:39 p.m.

@48 and @55 it matters because
1. he was playing the character that everyone said was overpowered
2. he got beaten by not only poongko
3. a lot of money was on the line
4. he should have practice his match ups because he made careless mistakes
5.he got perfected by poongko
should I really go on?

yeah someone will now say "he's better than me" I'm sure he is but I don't think he can make a judgement like that and the problem is a lot of ppl will believe him, did he play the whole cast or just the three he claim are the best and watched the watch the rest? someone should ask him that.

#97
Asmiliz said on December 28, 2011 at 3:39 p.m.

#92 Gouken is so easy to win with. If you start you just give anyone that actually gets through the fireball parcourt a neutral jump mp or his counter move and start over with his fireball parcourt. and thats how most goukens obviously get through till around 2000pp, cause most of them are still doing that at that point. And i have yet to see a gouken below 3000pp that doesnt completely crumble once i shut down his fireball game with juri or Rose. Apparently, footsies are only required for Goukens over 3000. I was actually suprised to see the animations of most of his normals.

#98
irrenmann said on December 28, 2011 at 3:40 p.m.

I can't help but laugh at the idea that he thinks Honda has more potential than Chun-Li or Evil Ryu.

#99
RHayabusa said on December 28, 2011 at 3:40 p.m.

I must say I find it hard as a Vega player since Vanilla to believe that he can be high tier? I always thought of him as lower to mid tier?

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