No it is the same damage, just Makoto has less health now. They lowered her from 1000 to 950 (what she had in Super)
It isn't a huge deal but it irritates me because in 3S she had same health as Ryu/Ken and now she has less and it bugs me because there isn't a single female character in SF4 that has the "standard" 1000 health or higher.
they took away 50 hp from makoto and gave it to oni. Who didn't need it. Which makes no sense at all. There was no reason to nerf makoto. Hopefully when SF4 2012 2.0 comes out they'll fix her back to her AE glory
Lol 50HP really isn't that big of a difference. As a Makoto player, i actually think in 2012 she'll be just as good with her TC being cancelable now and her dash being reportedly fixed.
50 hp is that big of a difference lol.. Just look at how easy it is to kill all the females in the cast. But it was that much harder to kill Makoto. Now she has the vagina tax and got 50 hp cut from her lol
Don't forget though, unlike Cammy she doesn't have an invincible reversal. Her forward throw doesn't knock down and has the lowest damage in the game, she has no 3F crouching attack. And all of her normals except S.LP and S.MP are 0 or negative on guard (where as MOST of cammy's are positive on block allowing her to frame trap.)
Her walk speed is the slowest in the game by a lot (it is literally 300% slower than Akuma's according to the physics data in PC version.) while her dash is the best in the game if you actually look at the range and frame data it isn't like exceptionally better than Ibuki/Cammy/Rose/ElFuertes it is only a SMIDGE better.
she does have reversal on wakeup, her srk does hit jumpers but not safe jumps, her throw can punish safe jumps, just like zangief, t.hawk, seth & her ex overhead can be used as an attack reversal
Stop whinning for the sake of whinning guys its rediculous!
None of those are invincible. Her EX overhead is 18F startup and loses invincibility at 12F that leaves a HUGE area she can get stuffed (which is why you never see it used outside of combos or meaty setups)
Her fukiage jump punch has extremely specific spacing (moreso than almost any anti air special) an 8F startup, ZERO invincible frames, and if it is safe jumped she is left in a counterhit state because she can't FADC it for safety since the move whiffs on grounded opponents completely.
Her throw can't punished safe jumps, it has too long of a startup. 7F for LK 8F for MK and 9F for HK. Only EX is remotely safe with 5F startup and super armor (no invincibility at all) but all of them lose to safe jump - standard throw.
Seth's command throw is 3F and it is invincible for first 4F on EX version
Gief and T Hawk's is 2F (making it faster than a standard throw, or DP)
Stop complaining about complainers when you have false information.
People say that 50 less health isn't a lot, but it can be the difference between winning and losing. Makoto shouldn't have lost any health. Capcom once again, giving a nod to the verbal majority who complain about their easy to use characters being nerfed in AE... boo hoo.
Makoto was considered a top tier character, but who do you see winning anything noteworthy with her? Exactly!
Why they nerfed her health is a mystery to me. Look at how hard Shiro has to work, when that other guy playing Dictator simply holds back the entire time.
Makoto players have been robbed.
She was only barely considered top tier even then.
Most tier lists had her at the last spot on A tier.
Sagat, Akuma, Fei, Yun, Yang, Viper were ALWAYS higher tier than her on the lists. And more often than not so was Zangief, Cammy, Adon, and Ken depending on who was asked.
The highest she ever got was 8th and she was shifting downward slowly as AE moved on and people discovered how weak she was on defense.
Sagat didn't get a single nerf in 2012. And big surprise, when japan hosted its "old school only" tournament there was what... 6 sagats in top 8? 1 honda (mike ross) and 1 dictator.
@15 : Could not have said it better.
Makoto has zero viable option one she gets knocked down (she could use one of the many invincible reversal specials Bison have for instance... and they talk about balance).
So to compensate that, they removed some health and add zero defensive option, she still can't hit confirm anything and her only combo from a low hit is 2 hits and very unsafe if blocked...
But hey, we have all those completely useless buff to her charged hayate to compensate. Yeah.
The guy responsible for Makoto at Capcom must be a complete idiot.
But hey, all those that got hit by a karakusa because they didn't know the matchup sure knew how to have their voice heard.
u makoto whiners need to stop. there are a lot of characters worse off than her. she has her weaknesses just like anyone else, and she also has her strengths that can turn a match in an instant. she was definately top tier in AE, i dont want to hear any different. was she nerfed too much??? maybe. we are yet to see, but if you havent played 2012 yet, stop whining and play it first. the likes of ken and fei lost their jabs into sweep for a reason. im sure she lost some stuff for good reason also to help lesser characters in the match up. lets just hope the everyone's nerfs level out in the end
Hah! Guess those few pixels on EX Kara didn't really matter after all! But it doesn't matter, they'll still find ways to say that Cammy's better, when she peaked in Super with a grand total of 4 players!
I only play with Makoto, and God damn it sucks to get knocked down... but then again, I lost count of how many times when I almost get perfected then won the round within 10 seconds because I caught the momentum.
To me, having a horrible wake-up game only means that I need to learn more about the match-ups and wake-up opportunities for the characters I'm playing against.
Yes, getting knocked down definitely puts Makoto at a huge disadvantage, but if that's the case, at least know which scenario/counters that gives you the highest probability of survival. (Analyzing the other player's play pattern is a must, and I noticed that despite Mak's knock down disadvantage, a lot of players don't take advantage of that and still uses some quite risky mix-up games.)
Anyway, if Makoto was a well-balanced-all-around-good character (like Ryu), I would've never picked her.
Slowest walking character and unsafe moves all around, but able to kill someone within 10 sec without them even knowing what hit them?
Dudes, seriously... stop whining. :)
@4
Bisons Ultra 2 does more damage in AE. it was 420 i believe in Super...but then they changed it to charge so they wanted to compensate for that by adding 30damage. its 450 now.
the amount of people in these comments, that say stuff like "(she could use one of the many invincible reversal specials Bison have for instance... and they talk about balance)." or "Why not focus on something to help with her wake up issues?"
has it ever hit you guys that characters can block on wake-up? maybe instead of whining for having an army of invincible reversals, you should worry/focus on how to step up your game and not get trashed around on wake-up. i play characters who have no good reversals either, but ive stepped up my defensive game and my throw teching so now i dont rely on escaping every fricken wake-up. the only characters who give me a hard time on wake-up is Akuma, Ibuki, and Fuerte (because of their vortex). other then that stop complaining about something that can be fixed by stepping up your game. LOL i think half the people here who complain are going to love the Gem system for SFXT. you guys can boost up your characters with reversal gems LOL.
@24 I don't think she needs an invincible reversal, that is how she is designed. If you watch top level Makoto players you'll see that there is only 3 things you ever see them do on wakeup
block
Backdash
FADC backdash
Hell, Makoto players spend more time pressing downback than any character that isn't charge based for specials. But that is how she is designed to be.
My point is that she DOESN'T have a viable wakeup option, and she has horrible defense. This is to make up for her having one of the strongest offenses in the game thanks to her mixups being so good (only thing missing is having her j.mk actually work as a crossup.)
Bison's wakeup is strong because his offense isn't as good, he has great crossups but his actual damage output is fairly lacking.
@15&@18 : I don't get you guys. How can you cry so much when Makoto is a character able to end a round with 2 easy combo.
Once you are cornered against makoto, you're basically dead and like fei long, she put you in the corner in 1 strike (ex hayate, which is -4 on block and so far away that almost nobody can punish it anyway).
She has an insane pressure game with her tools :
-really good frame traps.
-an axe kick better than any dive kick in the game easily hit confirmable, totaly safe on block, hits most backdashes and gives you an ex hayate+dragon punch juggle, gives you a free ultra.
-a special throw (ex with an armor !!!) to big big damages or ultra.
-the best random ultra in the game. U2, you can just brainless use it and AFTERWARD to confirm it if the opponent did a move.
With all the tools she has + the INSANE DAMAGES AND STUN she deals you're crying because she's having trouble knocked down ?
So my question is : are you mad or something ?
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