Uryo posted on his blog about Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition v2012 talking about the information from the change lists and his thoughts on it.
There are not many changes since the announcement of the first change list from a few months ago. At first glance, Akuma, Abel and Seth seem strongest in this version.
Contributions to this story by Nyoro, Rafael2487 and the Oro777 blog.
Why aren't Hakan, Gen, and Gouken the best? They deserve a chance at top tier.
@ 4.. Players.. AND Characters. You can't take players' skills alone and bring a weak character (e.g. Dan) to top tier. And vice versa (weak players can not take even a top tiered character to the top because of obvious reasons).
@7. you summed it up in one statement. BOTH makes the game. You cant take one without the other. That's why you always see top players using top characters in the HIGHEST level of play. Of course, I'm aware that there are exceptions to the rule (eg. POONGKO-SETH,URYO-SAKURA,MOMOCHI-CODY). But they are exceptions, not the rule.
A bad character is a bad character, a good player can make a bad character competitive. However...depending on how many weaknesses the character has (or how limited the options), there will be a wall in tournaments. Good players choose good characters in tournaments for a reason and that's to win. If they realize they are at a disadvantage with weaker characters, surely that says something about characters having their limits based on their design.
Anyone can do anything online, a tourny with pros is different.
@9 give me a link to your claim. Even if this is true, can Justin do it CONSISTENTLY (eg. 1st to ten vs Air's Ryu and Justin's Dan) and can he do it in tournaments against other players with their characters. One outcome of a match can't determine this. the operative word here is consistency.
@8
Guess what. All the names you've mentioned have ALWAYS been successful regardless of who they've picked.
Ryu was nothing more than an Over Exposed Mid Tier in Super. Daigo won EVO with him.
You blame characters for YOUR shortcomings. Keep doing that and you'll never improve!
Sadly this seems to be the mentality of today's Fighting Gamer. It's Sickining and makes me want to puke!
@12 Read my posts again. Since when have I blamed characters for MY shortcomings? I wasn't even talking about me. I was talking about the game in general. It's not a coincidence that top players are at the top because of the characters that their using. oh and RYU was definitely not mid-tier in vanilla and super. He was upper-mid tier at least, PLUS he has very few bad match ups and he is a character who certainly have a lot of tools for every circumstance. In short, he may not be at the top. but he definitely can hang with the top! you cant say that about other characters.
Okay I haven't really been following that much... last I saw Akuma got destroyed with nerfs. What makes everyone keep saying he's like the best in the game now? It seems like most of the tools that made him an actual threat got nerfed. Is it mainly because the other top tiers got nerfed, or did he actually get anything worthwhile? I can't imagine the EX hadoken out of an ex demon flip is that helpful.
How do you think these characters become "Top Tier"? These PLAYERS go to the Tournament and show you how to play them!
Do you think anyone was calling Seth "Top Tier" before Poongko started killing ppl with him?
Now, in this very article he's considered Top Three?!?
Wake up man.
"Akuma, Abel, and Seth seem strongest in this version"
With the exception of Akuma(and even then there's those don't think he'll be near the top, (interneters mostly)). No congruency amongst players who's going to be the top. More debate=more balance... generally.
Akuma nerfs:
Forward Throw = Just needs to find new setups.
Demon Flip Punch overhead punch = No reason to crouch block anyway against demonflip. Changes nothing
Far Standing Hard Kick dmg = 20 less dmg is big in the long run. Still does not destroy a character like some of you think. -2 on block will just change hawk and gief matchups slightly.
Buffs
EX Demon Flip: A total new move is huge. We dont know if the 2x bars is worth it yet, but i have a feeling we are gonna see 450+ dmg combos against large chars.
Ultra 2 - Demon Armageddon dmg buff. Good
Unconfirmed:
Read 2hit of st.rh no longer wiffs on certain characters. Not confirmed
Does this look like a weak character to you guys?
@16.. No, I disagree with you again. Most if not all players of ALL SKILL levels can easily have a general idea of who the possible top and weak characters are in the game even when playing it for a short time. Just take a look at Hakan and Yun for example. It doesnt take a "TOP" player to see that Hakan is inherently weaker than Yun in both character design and character fighting style. That is why in ver.2012 you see Hakan with so many buffs and Yun with so many nerfs.
As for Seth, He still clearly is not at the top three character tier lists. Only reason why Poongko is so good with him is because of: 1)Poongko is a beast (i have to give you that one) and; 2) Many players are unfamiliar with how to play against Seth because not a lot of players use him. An example is when poongko beat daigo with seth at the latest evo. but when they ran it back in actual what 1st to ten set, Daigo's Yun demolished Poongko's Seth.
@22
Right. So it comes down to the PLAYER. Glad we agree.
That "unfamiliar with the character" doesn't hold water anymore. We're 4+ years into this game Holmes. Daigo plays 363 days a year. 8 hours a day.
Pretty sure he gets some Seth exposure! Plus Hiropon is on his friends list!!!
Poongko made the difference at EVO.
@22
Lol, I was just reading a different thread and you said that your ready for SF5?!?
You've exposed yourself as a kiddie gamer that wants your character to hand you wins. If not you quickly get bored and move on to the next game!
Real Fighting game players could play SF4 for the next 15 years and still be finding new technology!
I can totally see right through you. No wonder you favor Tier Lists so heavily.
@Aluppoj .I agree with most of your postings but Hiropon is on Poongko's friends list not Daigo's. He just ended up being in the same endless battle as Daigo.
You guys are having a long and pointless debate. But it is a mixture of... both players skill & attributes of some characters vs othas and tha abilities and tactics one character has ova an otha(s).
Oh I may not have used a comma but aparently none of y'all do. My bad I guess. FAIL!!?<---- Wow really people?
And that's why it's called a match-up. No match is 10-0 keep that in mind. Match outcomes are more reliant on player talent than character in the current state of Super Street Fighter 4 AE v2012.
I agree with Uryo's choices at top characters, but I would also add Sagat, Ken, and C. Viper to the list. v2012 is going to have a lot of competent characters now, so while a tier list will always exist the differences will be quite minute.
I don't understand why Solo tourney will be less interesting...I think it'll also make solo more interesting...This is perhaps first time Capcom is able to make the most balance version of all SF4 iterations. We're going to see the most diversity of characters being used since there is no obvious top tier characters.
About Justin's Dan vs Air's Ryu it was obvious Air did not know the match up and got caught with a lot of Dan's shenanigans. If I recall correctly he ended up figuring out the Dan match and winning the set.
OH BTW where are all the Ryu haters who said he was soooo easy to use? Uryo just admitted it takes skill to use him.
#8 Seth and Sakura are very good characters. Its not the players that were succesfull with bad characters, they were just the first who really got them and are succesfull with them. In fact, before Poongko dicovered the strentght of Seth he wasn't succesfull at all. And Uryo was always in the scene (i dodnt know him before Sakura, its just what they say...), but the rise to the top was thanks to sakura.
Momochi is a very good player that made a mid tier character work. But a lot of the time it seems, pros are just going the easy way. I guess most humans do that as soon as it is about money.
@40
Sorry. I just watched it again for accuracy. Justin won the first TWO sets with Dan!!!!
And finished the second set with Super Taunt, Cancel, Ultra!!!
And that was in crappy Super SF4! Dan has vastly improved since then.
"The limits you feel are all in you mind, ignore them!"
Uryu admitted it takes skill to use ryu on the level of pros... not that he's trully that hard to use. furthermore, he's quite easy to TROLL with lol.he's still like, the most "solid" character in the game.... and likely always will be. like seriously... what does he "suck" at? lol. he has good stamina, does good damage, is fast enough, and can be played ANY way a person wishes to play him.
@ Asmiliz
Uryo didn't rise to the top thanks to Sakura. Before switching to Sakura, he was the #1 C. Viper in Japan and many considered him the best C. Viper in the world.
As for Poongko, he won the first SF4 Korean National Tournament with Ryu and was flown to America to fight against Daigo, Iyo, and Justin Wong.
@ Aluppoj
"Sorry. I just watched it again for accuracy. Justin won the first TWO sets with Dan!!!!"
You must have watched the wrong video because based on the results thats impossible:
http://esfiworld.com/sf4/news/canada-...
Air went to the grand finals from winners bracket meaning he did not lose a set at all during the tourney. You might be confusing games with sets.
Sorry, I meant "first two games" not "sets". My fault. But he won the first two games. Isn't that a reset coming from losers?
Was it three out of five? That was a long time ago, my memory isn't what it used to be lol.
Never the less... Impressive play by Justin Wong.
@3
Why do they 'deserve' a chance to be top tier? I can't tell if you are being sarcastic. That's not how it works.
While ultimately, a character's design gives them the potential to be a top contender, the player is the one that is able to show that off. You can have a top tier potential character, but if players dont invest time in him, they will never be a true top tier, just underrated. Tiers are established from tons and tons of tourney and gathering results by comparing matchups. Many people that are top contenders aren't recognized until someone talented shows how to play them.
Take Cody and Momochi for example. Cody really hasn't had any major changes between Super and AE. His main gameplan then and now is the same, and it will be in 2012. But no one played him. Cammy was overlooked pre-AE, but later people noticed she was incredibly powerful back then.
As for the three characters you named (Gen, Hakan, and Gouken)...it's hard to say. Big grapplers need patience to slowly walk an opponent back to a corner. Hakan doesn't have the luxury of a patient game because he needs to be oiled up to be effective, and even though his oil is lasting longer, he's still on a timer. By design, it's hard for Capcom to balance him. I'll be surprised if starting him oiled will do enough for him.
Gen and Gouken are both underused. People's chief complaint about Gen is that he is too technical for the amount of damage he puts out. That's just begging for a high execution master to truly put time into him. I dont think we've seen enough of Gen outside of one or two foreign players to truly peg him, and he's receiving buffs too. Gouken has many valuable tools, and Infiltration showed us a small taste of his potential. The guy has an incredible zoning game, a demon setup, back throw into ultra, juggles into denjin, a counter to fight against pressure and cross ups, very strong juggles and a good reset. Really, he is mostly missing pressure strings.
I guarantee you that if Infiltration or someone else picks up Gouken, sticks with him, and plays him in several majors, he will bump up a few spaces. In the end, the tiers aren't very far apart from each other anyways, so most of this is a moot point lol.
yay for akuma