One of Japan's top players, Kindevu, posted some tier rankings for Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition recently. Lynaken here on the EventHubs.com forums translated the list for people to check out.So what do you think of the new tier breakdown? Leave a comment below with your thoughts.
B and B+ are mixed up. Not that it really matters, but it's good to see at least Kindevu's Tier Rankings for Super Street Fighter IV: Arcade Edition ;P
Go Chun-Li / Sakura!
Lol at Hakan still being at the bottom of the Tier List.
Wahahahahaha, Cammy tied with Ken!
That alone ruins the list.
Well, I haven't played AE, so I can't really say too much...but saying Guy is better that some of the characters in lower tiers doesn't really sit well with me. I'm not trying to downplay him or anything, but I main him, so I can see his weaknesses and strengths in comparison to other players.
Capcom, why do you hate grapplers? WHY? Jeez why did SNK have to die? They knew how to handle grappler characters. It's like Capcom puts them in the just to fill a space.
(Well, guess I'll still be fighting an uphill battle w/ Hakan, lol...)
GOUUUKKKKEEEEEENNNNNN DOOOUUUUUSSHHHHHIIIITTTTEEEEEEEEEEE :( I'll prove them wrong for you Gouken!
strange that E.ryu is not in the same bracket as normal ryu.
This tierlist needs a C+ section to make it clearer.
Lol at guile for being trash now and days
But i dont believe for one second that T.hawk off all characters who got buffs only is ass tier.
At one of the AE streams i saw T.hawk hitting a 40 winstreak <.<
Nothing really unexpected in Kindevu's tier list, except for Guy being a little too high in my opinion, since I can't think of any significant buffs that he got that would have bumped him up that much.
@4
Don't forget the boost in stamina! Capcom basically gave her everything she needed in AE to not suck. The potential was already there, top guys like Justin Wong have been saying that for quite a while. All she needed were the right adjustments, and Capcom delivered. :)
@20
I guess you conveniently ignored the fact that Zangief is in A tier in Kindevu's list, huh? Also SNK isn't dead, dunno what you're talking about there.
@# 29
lol just cause you seen thawk hitting a 40 winstreak once doesnt make him good. Results have to be consistent to be viable. And just cause T.Hawk was listed a bunch of buffs doesnt mean it actually did much for him. I know i said this when AE popped up in the arcades in the states in the order stories on this site. Getting a faster U2 start up, more range on His SUPER, and ex air dive as the more noticables ones.
U2 was always a garbage ultra and still can be safe jump due to it functioning as a grab(cant hit grounded recovery frames unlike a dp), and no one can really stock up his super due to needing to use his ex moves to get in, and because his ex moves are more reliable it kinda counter acts his better super grab range due to unavailability.
Same deal with Hakan, being able to stack oils not gonna mean much when you cant oil up safely in the first place on defensive. It only shows it strength when you have heavy momentum on your side and the stacking oils will hold its weight if your ever having to stay defensive for a bit. While being able to do oil slide from his light attacks sounds good, but his light attacks are slow and his "crisco" combos are better on the damage department and as a counter poke maneuver. Being able to combo off a lvl 1 focus attack and using it to power thru a poke is more reliable than trying to counter jab/short thru someone block string or whatever.
And as far as Dan he has some abusable pressure tactics, 2 decent ultras and a solid reversal. which thawk and hakan lack. Tomahawk buster cannot be fadc'd out and hakan still has no good reversals. Atleast zangief exGH still can power thur things and be fadc'd out for safety.
All n all thawk and hakan are relegated to the bottom pits.
@ibLeo: We've known that for a long time, and yet the 3S fan brigade just tells us to 'get over it' and 'level up your game'.
Hey, there were only 4 characters available in THAT game! Noticing a connection?
Why is this even here? We all know, that like Gamerbee did with Adon, this all depends on how much people use a character. Very few people get good at Hakan, T.Hawk, Gen and the like because of lists like this. We all already know that this is not a skill tier list. When you take the time to know a characters in's and out's you fight as if the character is an extension of yourself. Which is why Daigo and J.Wong beat lots of people who have "higher tier" characters.
this is why i like "tiers" I LOVE seeing my favorite character as the "worse" character in game. Winning with Hakan and knowing he is "low tier" brings a smile to my face.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49tceM...
here is low tier fun of me playing Hakan
@#32
While guy didnt get huge significant ones hes gotten some pretty good ones. His EX run changes is very helpful, slide having near full projectile invurn and run stop having like 3 hits of armor and shorter recovery i believe(could have mixed up recovery buff on stop with fuertes). C.lk being a 3 frame move is a godsend for his pressure game and combo starter, and far MP and far MK being MUCH better poking tools. And lesser buff of his F+MP overhead is even on hit and hits twice so could be good to snuff out focus attacks.
So snakeX Guy has gotten alot of things to help in every department, while he still have some downfalls such as his odd ultras and perhaps floaty jump hindering him in the long run. Hes a pretty decent character so hes deserving of the spot he is in. Perhaps if they improve his U1 and allowing his ex spin kick to hit behind he could be A ranked on the list
@#33 and just because you seem very downwards towards the rising off the hawk does not mean i wil devote effort to playing him.
Actually glad that E.ryu ranks so low. more than 35 characters in 1 game means that if your balls are big enough you dare to pick a character that does not have everything going for him.
o and by the way......... more people got nerfed... same reason why C.viper ranks so high in AE
@#44
Could you clarify your statement on that first line, cant understand what you are trying to say towards my post.
@#45
:P
@#44 You seem very negative against T.hawk while he is a viable character.
The buffs he got where unneeded and sadly unrelevant towards what he needs. (better normals?)
However the rest off the cast got nerfed (still don't get Capcom on this one) for no reason.
Dont you find it ridiculous that DAN off all characters outways a character made with a purpose too compete against the rest off the cast?
Getting a bit offtrack i will enjoy trying to improve on my shoto skills and my grappler skills with E.ryu and T.hawk respectively.
@42
Thanks for the clarification, I was aware of some of the improvements on his normals, but not about his EX run ones, particularly about the three hits of armor.
Have his bad matchups gotten any better? Just from talking to Guy players in the past, I know he has particular problems with Balrog and E. Honda. I'm assuming the Honda matchup isn't as bad any more since he got some pretty heavy nerfs but what about Balrog, or any other matchups he struggled with?
Not like it matters to me but he or Catalyst left out Oni.
With all of rose's nerfs she should be c+ or b--
She officially has no way to use u2 as a reversal and her damage output is low. With all the rushdown characters as S and A class rose is outmatched. The only reason she is so high is cause there is only a couple Rose mainers out there so there isn't much exposure to her.
@#48
sadly enough Thawk is one of my mains which as you see im not a happy person on what happened with him. Honestly i think Thawk has a good set of normals, usually unexplored he has a decent chunk of link combos and frame advantage on alot of his pokes it seems.
I find his special moves lacking and being the only character unable to fadc anything very ODD giving it the big thing ssf4 is revolved around. Is it so wrong to be able to fadc tomahawk buster into U2 or ex condor spire into U2? not like it is a 500 damage ultra. Seeing how many other characters can do similar things and already more solid in general. i could go into more detail but i rambled enough in one post.
@#50
Im not a match up expert but as far as i know balrog doesnt get away with the stand jab pressure anymore. That alone should help guy alot, and honda cant anti air headbutt well without ex meter which gives guy a chance to get in and do some damage. Havent gotten to play AE in months, so with a grain of salt my friend.
@#52
yea while rose got nerfed so did alot of other people, and her footsies game is still good, just if you get pinned on defense now its gonna be a huge pain. Shes isnt that high on the list, middle of the pack which sounds about right and her U1 is still usuable for those that need a heavy hitting punishing move.
All the nerfs in AE are pretty hard to swallow considering how good they made Yun/Yang right out of the gate. The questionable nerfs wouldn't sour me on AE nearly so much if they didn't intentionally overpower the twins. Considering how good they are, they really didn't need to nerf anyone.
good stuff. at least now i can play Bison to his fullest. back in Super i would have to sandbag a little (not that im skill full or anything) because i knew the online trolls would always send hatemail. after a while it gets annoying ya know? anyways hope some people do the same. remember guys dont run after a character whos on top of the teir-list, run after the one who best suites you.
I must say, while a respect kin, as a player, I feel this list is half assedly thrown together, it differentiates, substantially from Daigos, no offence since Daigo is easily labeled as the "gOD of 2D gaming" I'll adhere to Daigos tier list until an official comes. Besides Mago, Tokido, kin, Uryo, shiro, etc.. All of the good japanese players basically respect, and listen to Daigo, when it comes to down to things they know Daigos word, as law. Almost like a chief of a village, so Daigo for guvner!!!!! lol
I really want to play Dee Jay, I think he's so damn cool but I just haven't seen anything as far as combos go that make him viable in tourney play. I guess I'm sticking with Chun-Li... Damn it, really wanted to mix it up in AE. Maybe I'll go Adon.
aww it looks like ibuki went down some from ssf4 hopfully that dont mean she got nerfs... but hey sakura is wayy higher that helps a little. Im not sure if people going down means they got nerfs but i guess il find out in a month since there are no ae machines near my city.
Haha, Dudley barely moved. Good thing Kindevu doesn't play as him, meaning there is still hope.
I'd probably throw Oni in B tier. While I do he has better tools than some of the guys in B tier, as a character, I don't feel that he has quite ENOUGH to hit B+. That's just me though. It's close either way lol, I just wouldn't rank him any higher than that. More toward B+ though I suppose, just working off the fact that my 2 mains are in B+ and Oni's been progressively becoming one of my alts.
How can you say that tiers dont matter. I think people are mis understanding the idea of a tier list. Think of it this way weither or not daigo is godlike with ryu doesnt mean that he doesnt have a harder time beating mago's fei long then lets say justin wongs dan. Give me a break the faq's are some characters have distinct advantages due to programing over other characters. Whats easier cutting a rope with a super sharp knife or a dull one? If you dont understand that analogy then you dont belong in the forum posting your opinions.
My characters are Honda, Hakan, Ibuki, Gen and Vega.
nerf, sucks, nerf, sucks, nerf.
BUT I'M NOT COMPLAINING ...
Remember, Skill+(high tier position) > No Skill + (high tier position). Player's skill ultimately decides how good your characters are, but it is also naive to believe that all the characters are created equal, and that high skill alone will solve everything.
As for the tier list, I'm happy that cammy is still up there. Still way better than vanilla.
@ 77 Players skill doesn't decide how good a character is. A players skill determines how well he can out think and react to your opponent. Think of the character as a tool and the player is using the tool. Just because you are good at using a certain tool does not mean that the tool your using is better then any other said tool. What makes a good character is the options that the character gives the said player. You can get more done with a tool box full of good tools then just a good hammer.
Hate those stupid twins... Hate their look, hate their gameplay, hate their story, hate everything about them...
Vega probably dies, he has a lot of weaknesses it seems (though Tatsu plays him admirably). Arturo said Dhalsim is free to Yun, I feel so bad for him...
I'm maining Dhalsim along with Zangief now, so I hope in AE it's not too much of a pain. Also, how is Zangief so high with the nerf to knockdown on EX Hand? I've seen a good Zangief work his butt off and lose to Sagat just because of that nerf in AE, it's such a stupid nerf. =P
As for Makoto, she was bad...for many reasons. SSF4 was the most defensive iteration, Makoto struggled against turtles like Balrog/Guile/E. Honda/Chun-Li, she basically had no good shot in a tournament because her momentum was too easily broken. The developers initially were scared to make her strong.
In AE charger/zoning characters were nerfed, Makoto got buffed in her speed, fixed some of her specials, buffed her dash punch, and gave her more stamina. The combination of nerfs along with buffs to Makoto make her so good now. I'm happy too....cause winning with that girl in SSF4 was like scrubbing a floor with a tooth brush.
Remember people, SF is a game about options (like chess). The best characters have the best options, it's as simple as that. Yun/Fei Long/Yang have the best options if they are the best characters in comparison to what any other character can do. Though I think Rufus can hang with any of them to be honest.
Cammy got buffed to heaven on her normals, so I expected her to be good.
I'll also concede with the Sakura listing. Chun-Li got nerfed, so it's possible for them to be on the same slot (granted I'm sure Chun-Li is still stronger overall). Sakura's buttons feel stupid good when I fight her, using Gief against her is just aggravating.
@84 yeah thats what i said in both my posts. Its a ranking of characters by taking all their tools for matches and logically determining which advantages and disadvantages they have in each and every matchup. Taking out the player and just using raw data. Lists are constantly changing not becuase new exploits and advantages and weaknesses in characters are discovered and re analyzed. In other words I know what a tier list represents unfortunately most people misconstrue the idea of a tier list and make it something other then raw data. It has nothing to do with the people playing the characters. So in other words those of you who complain that its because the top tier players dont use those characters you are wrong to a degree. The only thing that changes a tier list when a top player plays said character is that the top player finds out gimmicks and strenghts in those said characters that rookies and up and coming pros cannot.
this is the main reason why pro's in japan think fei long is placed so high in tier list for AE and Super --- Horizontal Space control---Street fighter has always been about footies, and seeing the majority of the fireball characters are getting nerfed makes fei long so dangerous... think of the bad matchups fei long has and what those characters did to keep him out.. "guile especially lol"... Fei Long is top tier because of his ability to control horizontal space, being a shoto nightmare, and also add on some nice priority normals and hes very good... i mean fei long is the best at what he does "pressuring the opponent into making mistakes" also his basic combos do a nice chunk of damage considering the players execution. Then again all of the professional feilong players are ridiculously good... and know how to play him correctly which amazes me
also pro's place other characters in low tier cuz they have said that not enough people play these characters on a professional lvl to see the characters full potential... i mean their are great hakan, thawks, guys, goukens, etc.. but there are not Enough of them that play on a professional lvl. so pros can not automatically assume that just because they met maybe 5 ridiculously good Hakans in the professional scene that they will place hakan anywhere where near A or B rank.. Its will take the community and pros who will dedicate their time and show the true potential of those considered "low tier" characters... but it has to Be Enough people playing that character that are actually good with them on a professional lvl.
@TrollKing
The last grappler Arc Systems made was Tager and he was the most retarded grappler ever. Who makes a character who uses zero damage gimmicks to set up more zero damage gimmicks after one another. Creativity didn't breed practicality in Tager's case.
Plus being able to tech command grabs made him trash. Last grappler they made was Potemkin. Mike Haggar is the best grappler I've played in years.
Makoto was never that bad in ssf4 she had some shortcomings but in the right hands she was a beast. It's no suprise that few improvements saw her take a big leap up the tier list. Hakan is definitely the new poster boy for low tier fun, he should give some potentially fun matches.
We should Def see Makotos Winning tournies...yun is not unbeatable-Makoto is here to whoop some ass son
tiers mean nothing to me, lets see the game 6 months after its been exposed by millions of players. just look at the top ranks online, plenty of low tier with over 25k bp. i will use my favorite looking character over a "top tier" any day, i mean isn't that whats so fun? i like seeing the low tiers whooping my ass its what makes street fighter the legend it is!
Me as a Sakura, Makoto & Cammy player thinks this list is crap. I agree on some, for real but some are just so awkward wrong. I don't know what he was smoking while doing that list.
Yun, Yang and Fei...s-tier? Prove it you Japs! They're s-tier since they're the only ones being used all the time. You can't have opinions on match-ups and characters that don't even get played against these three. Oh and Chun Li counterpicks these three easily by the way. Another lolz is the fact she's tied with Cody and Sakura in the same tier. You smoke weed dude? Her nerfs were useless and insignificant to her gameplay. Less damage on standing strong, less hitstun on crouch roundhouse and slower df.+lk? Tied with Sakura and Cody alright! (SARCASM)
I'm pretty sure it's considered an offensive racial term. It sounds like something you'd hear in a ww2 movie.
If I'm wrong, and someone who's Japanese can correct me I'd be greatful.
Again, I am not personally offended, as I am an Irish white guy.
But from what I've heard and read Japanese ppl do not like being called "Japs".
It's not the same as "Brits" lol.
kindevu is a MULTIPLE CHARACTER GRAND MASTER. there is not a more qualified player to assess the tiers
I still think the tokido/mago/daigo lists were more accurate for certain characters being lower on the tierS
guess this means Oni is banned. sucks cuz i really looked forward to playing him competitively
Honestly this tier list is really close to what I have seen in japanese tournaments and videos.The fact that the lowest tier is C means that the balance is really good outside of the S tier characters. What is sad is the game could have been even more balanced but they decided to make the twins too good and buff fei even more for no reason.Making the update seem like a step backwards as far as balance.
#116
Yes. Thats right. They catered to rush down in AE. Patience no longer pays off.
I see a lot of Comments stating that Guy is a B+ is Valid,Sadly mistaken tho they are . . . He is far from a C+ with the Minor buffs that they gave him,I have played him since it came out and I Positive with the Updates that they have gave him he would even peak as C rank, His lack of efficiency in building Meter being one, second is that he has no safe way to deal chip damage with out being close ,which mostly every other rush-down character on street fighter has ! (also if you think he does with any match up i'll be glad to shed any light on you),his poor foot speed and stun output as well as damage scaling on all of his bnb's However this Negatives can be used to a Pro level to confuse the transition from offense to defense,So skill can easily offset most of these. but the selective buffs that are mentioned are not for the better of guy these are simple to keep him in the same level. his pokes were buff'd because both T.Hawk and Gief's grab's are buff or has been alter for a new purpose. his light was made 3 frames because he lost to every1 with one based on the 7 frame recovery of his,and now that bushin flip is 120 damage with out that extra hit of armor it has (which run builds no bar, and on any of the 17 frames of stop you will get counter hit if touched) but the nerfs other Players was given would be probably what this is based of, a real buff would have been a better grab range and walk speed, however if his strongest combo now works on at least 50% of the cast (cl.HK-HP-MP-Hozanto)then i'll be happy I just disagree a D jumps to a B+ when Ryu lost run away and 2 cm off cr.MK and they drop him down so far Makoto I believe, a godsend was his LP hitting croucher's and Armor on Sudden stop, I have to see every match up, Plus Guy has the Most Counter Pics, and no accurate frame Data
Cammy A+? Lol, yeah right. If she was then there'd be more RECENT footage of her winning tournaments against characters that REALLY have the most advantages like Balrog, Sagat, or Ken around the net. But there are none. This is how recent Cammy matches usually go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuTf8A...
I think they really nerfed evil ryu too much i mean he is strong and all but slow pokes, hard combos, low health, no to strong supers or ultras, teleport is useless, not too good recoveries and how can you make a character look so beast but have him so horrible to me akuma is better that him even with the same health.
DAMN. C. Viper is A+ Tier! That's what I'm talking about! >=D #GoViper
i'm sorry but chun an bison an balrog in the same rank as cody an sakura DOES NOT COMPUTE