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Interview with Seth about current and future SF projects

Posted by Catalyst
September 8, 2010 at 10:30 a.m. PDT
Interview with Seth about current and future SF projects Hadoken.net caught up with Capcom's Seth Killian to talk about current and future Street Fighter projects. They touch on quite a few subjects, although towards the end it starts to recap things you've probably heard before.

Still, it's a solid read, worth looking over. Here's a snip.

If you can go back in time what would you have done different for SSF4?

Seth: There are a few relatively small features I’d like to see, but I’m working right now to get them into some upcoming products, so I don’t want to spill the beans on those yet. Apart from that, I was pleased with the way it turned out. I sometimes miss Championship Mode, the menus aren’t optimal for tournaments, and more characters always seem like fun, but overall I thought it turned out great.

Balance wise, SSF4 is without a doubt the most balanced SF game to date, how was this achieved?

Seth: To screw up an old phrase, it was probably 20% inspiration, and 80% perspiration. The QA team is a really strong group, and helped to bring a lot of issues to the surface so they could be fixed. Balancing can sometimes feel like it’s never really done, but overall I think SSFIV accomplished the goals of maintaining character personality, having a great diversity of fighting styles, and trying to make sure there were no hopeless matches.

Comments

BlackHart said on September 8, 2010 at 10:37 a.m.

Is anyone else having problems with Trophies is Super???

I have all the trials done, and beaten arcade mode with everyone and nothing.

When is capcom gonna fix that s***, cuz I looked online & it appears I'm far from the only one.

#1
Realpolitik said on September 8, 2010 at 10:40 a.m.

I wish I could have a public relationship with S-Kill.

#2
x_Who_Is_Alpha said on September 8, 2010 at 10:46 a.m.

He does a good job, hope to see more of him in the future.

#3
Kimosabae said on September 8, 2010 at 10:50 a.m.

SSF4 is balanced, no doubt, but at the cost of fun via restriction. Engine is hella limiting, making the game not very fun.

#4
rell1989 said on September 8, 2010 at 10:51 a.m.

hand claps to the super street fighter 4 development team

#5
IKARI said on September 8, 2010 at 11:12 a.m.

hopefully one of the future plans for sf is to make it good again. fack apocolyptically slow fighter 4

#6
badmandan said on September 8, 2010 at 11:20 a.m.

How does Hadoken.net get interviews with this dude? This Strugler fella can barely type coherent sentences.

#7
Ex_Ein said on September 8, 2010 at 11:37 a.m.

Blackhart did you beat them all in Medium or above? because the trophy says that

#8
BlackHart said on September 8, 2010 at 11:42 a.m.

Yea, I beat them all on Hard.

And still nothing.

This guy has the same problem with his trials.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzP9vW...

#9
Kakkarot045 said on September 8, 2010 at 11:56 a.m.

No pc release for ssf4...! awwwwwwwww...!

#10
Nelaelu said on September 8, 2010 at 12:04 p.m.

IKARI #6

So, you're one of SF4/SSF4 haters? Imo, SSf4 is the BEST Street Fighter game so far (and I played almost EVERY SF that came out).
Slower speed makes the moves look clearer and fights became easier to watch. How fast would you want to have it? Hopefully, not to the point, where characters start looking like 2 hyper-active squirrels fighting each other...

PS. MvC3 is supposed to have fast gameplay (maybe that one will work out for you)

#11
BlankaBeast said on September 8, 2010 at 12:06 p.m.

The Hadoken.net site has the full interview, including the PC question.....anwer....no news on a PC release...at least it wasnt DENIED!! KEEP HOPE ALIVE!! PC FTW!

"I know there are a lot of avid SFIV PC players (including my own brother), but unfortunately I have no exciting news to share with them about a PC release."

#12
Nelaelu said on September 8, 2010 at 12:10 p.m.

Kimosabae #4

Give me examples, please, how the engine limits you? Be more specific...

#13
Kakkarot045 said on September 8, 2010 at 12:22 p.m.

@kimosabae
maybe u want those crazy v-ism juggles like alpha 3 or those 30-hit stupid combos like in versus series.. besides them i dont see any lack in engine..!

#14
Nelaelu said on September 8, 2010 at 12:23 p.m.

Do you have any NERF/BUFF suggestons for Arcade SSF4? We have a topic on the forum where you could DISCUSS them. It's called:

"SUGGEST YOUR BALANCE TWEAKS FOR ARCADE SSF4"

To find it, go to "FORUMS" (link svailable at the top of the page), pick "STREET FIGHTER 4 SERIES," then scroll down and you will find it.

#15
PsychoJosh said on September 8, 2010 at 12:23 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#16
Ex_Ein said on September 8, 2010 at 12:34 p.m.

if you have turtle problems. simple solution RUSH EM DOWN

#17
MALDA said on September 8, 2010 at 12:42 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#18
Gibo1984 said on September 8, 2010 at 1:06 p.m.

someone is having turtle issues...

#19
Nelaelu said on September 8, 2010 at 1:11 p.m.

PsychoJosh #17

Yes, easier to watch - especially to someone who ISN'T that great at the game. If you speed up the gameplay it's more difficult/confusing to see what's going on at a given moment (that also depends on characters' moveset)

Example? I watched a video from MvC3 here at EH. I'm NOT very familiar with MvC series and watching it was FAR from being exciting to me. There were just too many things going on on the screen and I couldn't exactly tell "who does what." Maybe, if I was more familiar with the game it would all make MORE SENSE to me. So far, it only DISCOURAGED me from buying it... (or maybe it's just not my kind of a game, idk).

I DON'T say speeding the game up a bit would be a bad idea, but I'm just trying to see CERTAIN BENEFITS from keeping it slower...

Keep your responses compact and RESTRAIN from giving me SARCASTIC/OFFENSIVE REMARKS. Respect someone elses PERSONAL opinion.

#20
drew02k said on September 8, 2010 at 1:17 p.m.

Lmao most balanced....now my friend swore by sfIII, and I played most street fighters except that one up until recently, after comparison of that to 4....I'm going to have to say that statement of most balanced is wrong. I do enjoy playing SSF4 and I take it for what it is but that buffer they are using is horrible. Also even with the cancel system why would you ever use any combo but the one that is going to maximize your damage and/or is slightly easier to use? I like SSF4, I enjoy it but out of the games I'm going to have to say SFIII is the most balanced.

#21
mrdrofficer said on September 8, 2010 at 1:27 p.m.

what is wrong with Turtlers? There's multiple types of characters and some are defensive. They all can't have spammable dragon punches and constant rushdown. Two trains running into each other does not a good strategy make. Turtlers are some of the smartest players and thinkers cause they can't repeat moves all day. Seriously, just figure it ou we all hate Balrog, but he's not impossible in the slightest.

#22
Nelaelu said on September 8, 2010 at 1:28 p.m.

PsychoJosh #17

I watched several Japanese Ken players yesterday - they seemed pretty DISTINGUISHABLE to me. They were using different ultras and set-ups, different combos, links, mix-ups, different pokes, karas, and cancels. Isn't that DISTINGUISHABLE enough?

I don't see there being only one way of winning a fight...

#23
KanyeWest said on September 8, 2010 at 1:28 p.m.

If you said Third Strike I would be like

YA OKAY THERE

#24
Nelaelu said on September 8, 2010 at 1:33 p.m.

lawl #21

What SF do you like then and why is it "so much better" then SF4/SSF4?

#25
mrdrofficer said on September 8, 2010 at 1:34 p.m.

SFIII and MvC2 killed the genre. To say they are the top games is completely flawed logic. The parry system is in place because it saved them time from having to balance characters further. The high attack as well but to a lesser extent.

#26
Nelaelu said on September 8, 2010 at 1:39 p.m.

drew02k #24

Why is 3rd Strike so balanced?

"why would you ever use any combo but the one that is going to maximize your damage and/or is slightly easier to use"

-ISN'T that usually the case with 3rd Strike and any other SF too?

#27
mag44 said on September 8, 2010 at 1:39 p.m.

@21 and 17

I don't know what's funnier: Trolls trying desperately to get attention, or neckbeards who have no idea what the f*ck they're talking about.

I usually just imagine the SF4/MvC3 haters talking and looking like Comic Boook Guy from the Simpsons.

Makes me laugh every time :P

#28
drew02k said on September 8, 2010 at 1:51 p.m.

@31
It's balanced because every characters can parry, which in turn allows even low tier characters to do well in the hands of a high skilled player. In SSF4, if you have a low tier character it doesn't matter how skilled you are in some matchups you are just going to lose because you can't do anything. You lose life when you focus attack, and if you get hit at any point in the recovery you lose the life. So example fire ball and sonic boom spammers, you can only focus attack so long before you have to stop and try to avoid them in other ways, where as in 3 you can parry them, build super and actually punish them for scrub playing. Now given not all fireball spammers are scrubs because with some characters that's just how you have to play in order to win. It's just more balanced in that sense. I mean example....C. Viper, you have to work your a$$ off to become good with her, I mean excellent execution skills but look where she is at tier wise? If you did that in 3rd strike but put that into parrying.....you would be rewarded with a lot more victories.
I still like SSF4 but I don't think it's the most balance, but I do think it requires less work to be good at then SFIII which in turn would make it easier to pick up and learn.

#29
Nelaelu said on September 8, 2010 at 2:11 p.m.

mrdrofficer #30

I agree to a CRETAIN EXTENT. When I first saw SF3 it was a big TURN OFF and it seemed to KILL the Street Fighter franchise. There might have been many reasons for SF3's LACK of success though (that would be a BIG topic to discuss).

OBJECTIVELY, it's hard to look at 3rd Strike without seeing its BIG FLAWS - but also its INGENIOUS ELEMENTS.

Anyone, who denies one or the other is ignorant...

You can still have your personal opinion and like the game or not (personally, I LOVE IT!), but try seeing both good and bad things about it.

#30
mrdrofficer said on September 8, 2010 at 2:14 p.m.

The main thing people forget about parrying is, Parrying kills charge. So, parrying kills 50 percent of the characters. Fact. If you are on this board voting for SFIII being the best and you actually play someone like Elena or Oro, then alright, but I have a feeling most of you are Ken and Yun players. My apologizes if I'm wrong.

#31
juanrock said on September 8, 2010 at 2:17 p.m.

i hope they buff sakura, with mid tier i would be really happy

#32
Nelaelu said on September 8, 2010 at 2:19 p.m.

lawl #34

I've never disrespected your personal opinion, but I asked you to support it (I can ask you for THAT, right?)

I've haven't received your arguments yet though...

#33
iheartmota said on September 8, 2010 at 2:26 p.m.

Parry limit options as opposed to opening them. Also some characters had way many advantage post parry. Yun? GJ on Face with half bar full. Urien? Free unblockable set up. Sean, Remy, twelve? ....

#34
IKARI said on September 8, 2010 at 2:27 p.m.

@psychojosh yes. that speed is what makes/made the SF games good. You had to have a quick reaction time, split second judgement skills or pay the price for your mistake(s). SF4 said lets slow it down because 1)parrying was too hard). 2)we need command shortcuts for people who cant do the full motion at the blink of an eye. 3)turtlers get beat out due the fact that waiting usually results in a crossup or a throw mixup which leads to bigger combos. in a nutshell SSF4 is the scrubification of the SF franchise and i dare anyone to come with any valid points as to why it isnt and watch me shoot them down.....

#35
Nelaelu said on September 8, 2010 at 2:37 p.m.

drew02k #32

Sorry, but your first couple of sentences are ABSOLUTELY FLAWED. If you learn to parry well, you can only beat someone who 5UCK5 at it.

If you have two high level players, both of them will probably be great at parrying. Then, OTHER THINGS become more important!

You seriously don't think you can be EVEN CLOSELY as successful with Sean, Hugo, or 12 as with Chun or Yun, right? In 3rd Strike top characters have BIG ADVANTAGE against others (Chun and Yun have advantage over EVERYONE ELSE!)

#36
iheartmota said on September 8, 2010 at 2:48 p.m.

ST is SF fastest game ever. Where if you make one mistake you should lose. Does that mean SF2 is better than SF3? SF3 chun is still the best turtle in SF due to one effin move.

Also Isn't Ken vs Sean 8-2 or something?

#37
Batsu said on September 8, 2010 at 3:34 p.m.

One of the best interviews I've read in a long time. Excellent Job Hadoken.net!

#38
PsychoJosh said on September 8, 2010 at 3:51 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#39
drew02k said on September 8, 2010 at 4:46 p.m.

@32, you are absolutely wrong, what tier is Hugo? Low. Yun? S tier
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Swk0Ew...
point proven right there with that link....ooorrr
Q? low Chun? S
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0deim0...
I think we will both agree that Justin Wong is a skilled player along with Kuroda.
You are looking strictly at numbers. Once you know how to parry and you know the setups you can give yourself the advantage. You can't do that in SSF4. Example....
Can you focus attack Ryu's Metsu Hadoken? No multihitting, or can you really stop him from light dragon punching you as an anti-air into it? No, with parrying you could one parry the light dragon punch and parry the metsu if you knew the timing if you didnt then you got hit. In this game you can't focus attack a fart and get away with it.

#40
Gameplan said on September 8, 2010 at 5:01 p.m.

"...If you have two high level players, both of them will probably be great at parrying. Then, OTHER THINGS become more important!

You seriously don't think you can be EVEN CLOSELY as successful with Sean, Hugo, or 12 as with Chun or Yun, right? In 3rd Strike top characters have BIG ADVANTAGE against others (Chun and Yun have advantage over EVERYONE ELSE!)..."
.

This. People talk about 3rd Strike's parry system like it were the holy grail of fighting game balance. It can give you an edge against people that doesn't know it well enough but on an even field isn't that important.

In 3S is far more important how good your super is, how fast can you build it, or how superior your normals and specials are compared to the rest of the cast. That's why most 3S tournaments are a tier whore fest of Chuns, Yuns and Kens.

#41
Nelaelu said on September 8, 2010 at 5:06 p.m.

IKARI #39

What ARROGANCE, claiming you're right before even letting others express their arguments (Especially when discussing things that at the end come down to someone's personal preference).

Many old SF had selectable speed levels, so you could pick one that suits you the most. In 3rd Strike, due to the parring system (and maybe some other factors) they decided to keep the game at one, relatively fast level.

In SF4 we also have one speed level, which happens to be slower then in 3rd Strike. It ABSOLUTELY doesn't change the fact though that you still need to have "a quick reaction time, split second judgement skills or pay the price for your mistake(s)." I claim that slower speed makes the moves look better VISUALLY (you can catch more details) and makes the movement of characters MORE NATURAL (not squirrel-like)

They didn't include parring, but NOT for the reasons you listed. They were aiming for more classic, SF2/SSF2T playstyle (which was WAY more know/successful than the 3rd Strike one) and also because parring (dispite being a deep and versitile feature) seems akward VISUALLY. In 3S you could eat the whole super with parrying - and they thought it's too much. They created FOCUS ATTACKS as a weaker version of parring (good use of it can still lead to big benefits though)

True, some of the changes (and speed maybe too) were aimed at young/new/inexperienced players, but can you blame Capcom for that? If SF4 repeated SF3's "SUCCESS" - the whole franchise would be DEAD BY NOW!

SF4 still has HUGE DEPTH and promotes SKILL/CREATIVITY. If it didn't everyone would play at about the same level and you would never hear about exceptional players...

#42
Fightingfan69 said on September 8, 2010 at 5:07 p.m.

I loved the character designs in SF3 but the parry system wasn't my cup of tea. The game seemed to be designed more for the hard core players.

SSF4 brought in more players IMO. Wasn't that Capoms intention? The elite are still that and take advantage of FADC and precise links which I still to this day have problems with since Vanilla. Never could get the timing.

#43
MALDA said on September 8, 2010 at 5:22 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#44
kingofthesharks said on September 8, 2010 at 5:25 p.m.

To almost everybody:

If you don't like it, don't play it. Obviously there are a ton of people who play the game you don't like, sink lots of money/time into it, and compete. There is no use in arguing with people which game is better because there is no real evolution between SF2, alpha, SF3, Marvel, CvS, and SF4. They all represent their own types of play which is why old school stuff still gets played at things like EVO.
People will b!tch all they want about character balance but what it comes down to is how the whole thing fits for you personally. Someone may agree that SSF4 is more balanced than 3rd Strike, but still prefer the parrying system above all else. People will agree that Alpha has fewer frames and is therefore faster, but still have more fun with the Focus/Ultra flow of SSF4. SSBM and MvC2 players will agree their games are 6 character top-tier fests but don't care because the gameplay is more thrilling to them than traditional fighters.
The internet will be the internet but if we are to be a community based around games then we need to respect each player, and more importantly, each game.

#45
Nelaelu said on September 8, 2010 at 5:28 p.m.

Gameplan #45

Thanks for backing me up bro!!

I don't know, why is it so difficult for some to ask themselves (and answer): WHY is Chun-Li so often dominating 3S tourneys? Why are top Yuns using one and the same super? or why are the 3S tierlists filled with 8-2?

CHEERS!!

#46
Nelaelu said on September 8, 2010 at 5:31 p.m.

MALDA #48

Thank You!

#47
Gameplan said on September 8, 2010 at 5:31 p.m.

@drew02k

Funy how you conveniently ignored the first match where Kuroda's Q (low tier) was utterly murdered by KO's Yun (top tier) and how ultimately Hayao's Hugo (low tier) loses convincingly against Kokujin's Dudley (high tier).

#48
Nelaelu said on September 8, 2010 at 5:33 p.m.

Fightingfan69 #47

WELL said man!! I ABSOLUTELY agree...

#49
Gameplan said on September 8, 2010 at 5:43 p.m.

@Nelaelu

I think the same. Personally I love 3S, it's a great and fun game, but some people are just blinded by their love for the game to the point of blatantly ignoring all its flaws.

#50
Nelaelu said on September 8, 2010 at 5:46 p.m.

kingofthesharks #49

The only problem is that some try to support something that's OBVIOUSLY INCORRECT only because they REALLY LIKE particular game...

...There's NOTHING WRONG in admitting certain flaws in a game like 3S and STILL LOVING IT!

Overall though, Your comment was an AWESOME conlusion to our discussion. Everyone should read it!

#51
Nelaelu said on September 8, 2010 at 6:06 p.m.

Gameplan #54

Funny, how we had such SIMILAR ideas at about the SAME TIME (posts 54 and 55).

INGENIOUS MINDS think alike... lol!

#52
MAestro said on September 8, 2010 at 6:57 p.m.

Alpha 3 is the best

#53
Kakkarot045 said on September 8, 2010 at 6:59 p.m.

Well..many players are whining about sf 3 as best game..bt to me it wasnt that good..the players who can parry well only wins most of time,it kills charge characters,uppercuts or anti airs are useless moves against jump ins..i can go on..

#54
KineticPoet said on September 8, 2010 at 7:09 p.m.

(This user was banned.)

#55
Phoenixrising77 said on September 8, 2010 at 7:18 p.m.

I like how he(Seth K.)said about the balancing on SSF4 "but overall I think SSFIV accomplished the goals of maintaining character personality, having a great diversity of fighting styles, and trying to make sure there were no hopeless matches." PLEASE !! lol.... Has anyone tried to play Juri vs Guile? or Balrog for that matter? There are serious balance issues. Sorry, but it is true. Why do you think so many people play Guile, or the Shoto fighters? Because they are overly powerful. You know you have a balanced fighter when THE WHOLE CAST is being used and not just powerhouses.I have hardly ever seen anyone use Hakkan, Makoto, Gen, Rose, just as examples. Soul Calibur 4!!! NOW THATS a balanced fighting game.

#56
neon6 said on September 8, 2010 at 7:39 p.m.

@31 White Knight much?
@61 Probably because those characters require too much effort the average scrub to deal with.

#57
drew02k said on September 8, 2010 at 7:46 p.m.

@52, his Q was murdered, but if you watch the other match you will see his Q murder Chun-Li, who was played by Justin Wong, and you will see Q destroy Ken, by Ricky Ortiz. I mean he fell off at that tournament but still fact being Hugo beat Yun, because he can parry. You can't do that in SSF4. Also the matchup between Hugo and Dudley was close. You forget he beat Yun which is higher tier then Dudley and it was the parry system that turned around the match.

@47
I said I like both and yes parrying was meant for hardcore players which is why it wasn't as popular. This game an average kid can pick up and throw fireballs and actually have a decent chance of winning. So yeah more casual for sure.

Also Chun, Yun, and Ken top tier was no different from Sagat and Ryus in SF4 vanilla, and Rufus, Ryu, E. Honda, Chun, in SSF4 tournaments and online. I mean every other match is a Ryu or Ken match online man.

#58
Kakkarot045 said on September 8, 2010 at 8 p.m.

@61
people play shotos,guile much not because they are just too popular,for instance very few plays even rufus n abel does that mean they are low tier..no so ur point is irrelevant..!

#59
Kakkarot045 said on September 8, 2010 at 8:01 p.m.

Edit- scratch that not after much

#60
ChuckPlazma said on September 8, 2010 at 8:05 p.m.

Before i get into what im about to say let me just state that i main cammy in this game(was maining in vanilla so no im not a tier slut) and my cammy ranks 153 out of about 10,000 or so on PSN under this very name ... so please before you flame me make sure its not about my skill level. Super Street Fighter 4 is where MOPS BECOME LEGENDS. This engine is horrible... so give all the charge characters Hella good normals that overprioritize and moves that are safe on block WITHOUT having to max range thats disgusting. Giefs,Thawks, and Hondas Turtle all day and sitback on health,priority, and command grabs all of which go through block straings. This is the only fighting game i know that rewards you for not fighting. A GOOD fighting game... let me repeat that a GOOD fighting game(i.e guilty gear) isnt all about match ups if im better than you then im going to beat you PERIOD. Companies so worried about keeping the scrubs happy for sales that they dumb the depth down so they can keep up. I sorta cant blame them cuzz fighting games just really came back but for the people who never left what are we left with... now if your reading this and catching offense then yes YOU ARE A SCRUB .. sit down have a cup of coffee and soak it in that you are arse, so do i think ssf4 is a good game sure, is it a GREAT game.. not at all do your homework 3rd strike was a balanced game and a better one and they shouldve based this engine more off of that PERIOD!!

#61
Nelaelu said on September 8, 2010 at 8:32 p.m.

KineticPoet #60

I LIKE it that way, and I have A RIGHT to do so. We live in a FREE country, don't we?

If YOU don't like my comments/way of writing, just SKIP THEM. You have a right to do so, and I will RESPECT that.

Just don't offend me, telling me to "STFU," cause I WON'T "STFU" - I'm a part of the Street Fighter community and can voice my opinions AS MUCH AS I WISH...

#62
Nelaelu said on September 8, 2010 at 9:23 p.m.

drew02k #64

The fact that someone can beat a hight tier character using a low tier character DOESN'T PROVE that the game is balanced or a tier list incorrect. Check the latest 3rd Strike tier list and look at some DEFINITIONS of TIERS.

In SSF4 better use of Focus Attacks/Focus Cancels can "turn around the match" too...

I agree that SF4/SSF4 might be EASIER to pick up than 3rd Strike. However, parring was DEFINITEL NOT the only thing that DISCOURAGED casual players from playing 3 Strike (that might be a long topic to discuss).

Sagat maybe, but ABSOLUTELY NOT Ryu or any other character from Vanilla. Vanilla Sagat had NO 8-2 ADVANTAGES (even though he still had advantage against almost everyone). However, 3S Chun Li had SIX 8-2 match ups and along with Yun she had avantage over EVERYONE in the cast.

Vanilla Ryu was bit NASTY, but he was NOTHING comparing to 3S Chun, Yun, or even 3S high tiers (Ken, Makoto, Dudley, Yang).

In SSF4 there is NOBODY, who who would STICK OUT as an overpowered character. Comparing SSF4 top tiers to 3rd Strike top tiers is NONSENSE.

Where do you see Kens? True, I see MANY RYUS (the only character in SSF4 that I wish was used LESS FREQUENTLY online), but there are NOT MANY KENS anymore. Personally, I fight more Guiles, Vegas, Chuns, or Dictators (I keep exact records).

#63
McBison said on September 8, 2010 at 9:49 p.m.

Just my opinion of 3S vs SSF4

3S
pros
-Parry allows for comebacks(ie. down with no life, opponent throws out a super/special while your down)
-parry makes airborne player not completely free
-any character can effectively rushdown

cons
-normal move meter building
-false charges
-pokes into super
-super art stun damage
-dizzy juggles

SSF4
pros
-super and ultras are more precious(since meter building isnt as easy)
-links into super
-balance of damage scaling(long link strings=less damage)

cons
-turtling is effective
-mashing DPs/360 throws while blocking a links is effective
-airborne player is for the most part free
-input shortcuts
-easy chip damage wins

Something I noticed about the two games is that in 3S, the battle usually takes place mid-close range since parries eliminate the far-range attacks. In SSF4, it covers all ranges.
Both are great games, it all comes down to the individuals taste. As far as balance goes, 3S has already been around for almost 11 years so it seems difficult to compare SSF4's balance which has only been around less than half a year.
But in the end, these are just opinions from my own experience.

props to Eventhubs for linking the interview:)

#64
Nago said on September 8, 2010 at 10:23 p.m.

@61
You may see them a lot online but there's usually more diversity in high level matches. If someone is legitimately good they won't get straight shut down by any character unless they're using Hakan or Makoto. Oh and did you say Rose? The character Arturo won Guard Crush with recently?

#65
IKARI said on September 8, 2010 at 10:23 p.m.

@#46. Yes they both have different speed levels, but its what those speed levels allow you to do. In 3rd strike due to its speed/frame rate a super jump is much harder to read and/or react to. And if someone read your super jump guess what, you had the option to parry in the air, to nullify any damage you would have taken IF YOUR TIMING WAS RIGHT. IN SSF4 not only do you NOT have an AIR PROTECT OPTION but since the focus attack takes a free hit and noone can jump in fast enough to nullify both hits because the games pacing is so retardedly slow 1 of 2 things happens 1) the attacker gets a free knockdown by using a scrub tactic like j.fierce into a sweep 2)the defender eats one attack then uses the remaining focus for a FREE combo with no work at all.

Akira Nishiitani who created street fighter said he wanted the series to reward speed and execution both of which were perfectly handled in all prior installments of street fighter. can yun turn a match around in one combo yes? but do you know how hard it is to a)memorize b)execute c)complete said game-changing combo due to how many inputs you must execute within a limited time frame as opposed to SF4 crouching lpx2->cr.medium->special move logic, due to how much space and leniency the game gives you to complete those combos.....anyone else wanna try me?

#66
Bookerjj said on September 8, 2010 at 10:24 p.m.

My opinion Ryu and Ken have always been overused in every SF, SF4 and SSF4 you may notice it more, because we just live in a new era where we can watch youtube videos, streams and a vivid online community.

When yall look at matches from the previous era you're pretty much only seeing the hardcore players. Online on consoles was pretty much non-existent before xbox live. And the ppl who cared to use emulators online were just another hardcore community as a whole.

When SF3 first came out Ryu and Ken was still the most used chars just as much they are used in SF4, yall just didn't notice because the media to watch the overall community was not there.

When SF3 online comes out for the first month you will see nothing but ryus and kens, till the novelty of the game wears off, and the game will fall back to the hardcore crowd. Hell even when MvC2 was re-released every other match online hard at least ryu and ken in it.

People just need to stop complaining about seeing those chars so much, thats how its been and always will be until they remove those chars from the game. lol imagine the backlash if that ever happens.

#67
Bookerjj said on September 8, 2010 at 11:31 p.m.

@72 IKARI
".....anyone else wanna try me?"

lol, those that mean you won? Did you even bother the actual read his comment, or just got a little upset that he replied to you and was blinded to even see what he was aiming to say.'

Correct me if im wrong but the jest of what you're saying is that it takes more skill to play SF3 than SSF4 because of the slow speed and shortcuts of the such.

From what he saying SSF4 maybe easy for beginners but still demands skill to play. Do you see where he is coming from or you just dislike SF4 you dont care what anybody thinks.

I guess Smash brothers is a easy game where you can go to a tournament and beat any of those pro smash players. I'm really trying to see your logic. Are you losing to random scrubs which make you come to this realization, if thats the case the issue is not SF4 its just you. You really comparing two different games, that plays completely different, hince why they are different titles, fine you like SF3 i respect that, 13 years ago there was plenty of scrubs on that game as well, ppl stop playing, this game barely been out a year and ppl still finding new strategies. just word spreads a little quicker with sites like this.

SSF4 is not easy to master no different than anyother game for that matter. This game just promotes different stategies, just seem like you want SSF4 to play like SF3.

#68
Gameplan said on September 9, 2010 at 12:41 a.m.

@drew02k

Justin Wong is a great player, the best in the USA, but we all know japanese players are completely in another level. Balance is judged amongst players of equal or similar skill. Kuroda is just a better 3S player than JW and Ricky Ortiz and it shows in those matches, period. That doesn't make 3S any less unbalanced.

#69
kenmasters675 said on September 9, 2010 at 1:14 a.m.

drew02k...i am laughing at your comments. What is your problem anyways? How can you be SO stubborn to see how unbalanced and broke Third Strike was? Heck, Third strike is EVEN more unbalanced that TEKKEN 4. I mean look at the damn tier ranking and chart rating for crying out loud! Look! EVIDENCE my friend to pure brokeness of third strike. Look at HOW MANY 8-2, 7-3 match ups are in this game.

http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2007/...

Wow. JUST WOW.

That looks worse then tekken 4...when jin own everyone with 7-3 and 8-2..

Balance? Have you check out the tourney results kid?

Rose - Luffy WON a huge tourney in France. Arturo wins with ROSE in recent big tourney.
Ryu - Wins in EVO.
Zangief - TOP 8 in EVO.
Adon - TOP 8 in evo.
Fei - 2 FEI in top 8 in big europe tourney where luffy won.
Makoto - Wong won a tourney, beating top level player Mike Ross using HONDA.
Viper - You ever heard of Sanford? Tearing it up in BREAK tourney.
Ken - Top 12 in EVO. Ever heard of DR. CHAOS?
Dhalism - Arturo? TOP 8 in EVO.
Dudley - Marn won with low tier dudley.

Eh.....yah....game is freaking balance man

Worst match up in super is 4-6....thats it.
Look at that third strike tier list and just face reality dude!

#70
drew02k said on September 9, 2010 at 1:21 a.m.

@69
The difference in the same and Rufus was overpowered as well in Vanilla, I was using him before he started to be picked up. That's why they tried to cut back his power. The over power characters are the characters that have the most options to go into their most powerful moves, in this case Ultras.

Sagat? Tons of options, Ryu? tons of options, Rufus? Tons of options

In their respective games Sagat and Ryu are no different then Chun and Ken because they are able to easily link super/ultras.

Difference is, that the focus attack system while good offensively, in order to do combos and so on, is not as good as parrying was.

Be that parrying and SFIII being super strict on inputs....it was worth the effort. I realized that going from SF3 into SFIV and trying combos, you could execute everything easier, except for buffer issues. Ex. I don't know how many times I have lost a match because a SPD comes out instead of a Sonic Boom because I jump backward, land and rotate for Sonic Boom with Seth, and that buffer goes oh he missed back and down back, he is using a shortcut, lets help him out.

Also I mean the rotations for some of the Ultras? Come on now. How is Dans Ultra 2, Kicks, when it could of just been Punches, they did that to dumb it down. Just in case a player gets confused between the inputs of the Ultra? I mean

I like playing SSF4, it's different and fun but I feel more rewarded when playing SF3 and beating someone or being beat then I do when I play SSF4. You watch matches of Yun players going crazy in Genie-Jin but the inputs and timing on those are so strict that they deserve that combo. How hard is it to light dragon punch into ultra....or jumping HK with Rufus into Ultra 1....doing the same amount of damage that a Yun player had to just input 12 inputs for and time it right.

Most people are going to like SSF4 because it's easier to play and that's fine. I felt the same way but then playing SF3, I realize that working a little harder to get better at a game is a lot more rewarding then just picking up a Ryu and having access to the best moves in the game, aka fireballs.

#71
kenmasters675 said on September 9, 2010 at 1:21 a.m.

You can argue that third strike is more deep and more fun, and the 2d graphics are better..which i agree with these points. Third strike was a cool, beautiful game. But man balanced? BALANCED? With Yun/Ken/Chun owning majority of the cast with 7-3, 8-2 match ups?

8-2? That is TERRIBLE balancing son.

I love Tekken 4. Favorite Tekken of them all.

But EVEN i admit that game is super broken to a point that it was a two man game. (Steve, Jin)

#72
kenmasters675 said on September 9, 2010 at 1:23 a.m.

drew02k...your last comment why you like third strike..you nail it in the head. That's good.

Super might be boring, but more balanced by far. I don't see a 8-2 match up in this game at all.

good night.

#73
IKARI said on September 9, 2010 at 4:52 a.m.

@bookerjj yes 3S>>>>>>>>>>>>SF4 is what im saying but my reasoning behind it is this. yes it takes skill to play ssf4 much like any other fighting. Now is there as much skill required to be good in SSF4 as it is in 3rd strike, by a country mile NO. SSF4 has no playstyle leniency whatsoever. Its Pick a character, use a projectile to zone and if you dont have one oh fuxcking well, memorize a pattern, utilize said pattern. everything in ssf4 is "on rails" so to speak, there is no real variety in combat. This relates to the speed in that in SSF4 someone throws a hadouken, you jump over it and the linearity of battle takes over. you do that and they have a focus attack, or an anti-air or another hadouken waiting for you.....keep in mind that this entire time you are still in the air unable to do anything. not to mention the random priority that this game has at everytime turn i.e. yesterday im playing online as cody i get a knockdown my opponent reversal cannon spikes criminal upper wins, my opponent dashes, then does cannon spike, i read and do a criminal upper on reaction and it loses. Why?

I dont lose to scrubs anymore because their strategies are easier to pick up on than say someone whose been playing for years because its even moreso repetitive. and I havent played a smash bros. since melee which i hated so i cant comment on that part. and no i dont want to play ssf4 like 3rd strike i wanted the engine to be a successor to 3rd strike not a dumbing down of an otherwise great series.

and SSF4 is easy to master completely different from everything else. Virtua Fighter, KOF, Tekken, BlazBlue those games are hard to master due to the extremely tight timing and demanding inputs for some of the damaging combos in those games, but thats an entirely different conversation

#74
IKARI said on September 9, 2010 at 4:59 a.m.

as for everyone complaining about tiers just play who you like and stop complaining aboout who gets the most wins, thats usually why they are top tier. because a while back someone said hey look at what "insert character here" can do then lost more people started to play with them, thus only evolving their metagame. in 3S it was yun/chun/ken/makoto/yang but in most tournies you'll see almost every character except sean because he truely has absolutely nothing to work with. now in the SF4 its gief/sagat/balrog/chun/ryu/rufus/viper and in tournies these paths very seldom deviate you get a few kens and some dhalsims and hondas here and there, but for the most part its the top characters that see the most light. There are people that are better than other characters in every game people, but they can be dealt with. This doesnt make one game better or worse than the next. IF you dont want to take the time to learn how to beat them then fine, but dont bitch about it when they wreck your sh!t and you cant do anything back.

#75
Phoenixrising77 said on September 9, 2010 at 6:29 a.m.

Ok first off, Joppula or Jabroni or juicehead, or whatever ur name is (comment #62) Yea I did somewhat make a reference of Soulcalibur to Street fighter. I know they are two different games. I was not making a direct connection between the two you idiot. I was making a reference to the balancing in that game as opposed to Street Fighter 4. Fact of the matter is...... SoulCalibur has a much better balancing system than Street Fighter. You cant just sit back and throw fireballs with SoulCalibur. You are forced to fight. I have a B+ rank with Juri, doesnt mean I am the BEST player, but atleast a decent player. But even I have a hard time against players such as Akuma who throw fireballs continuously, then teleport once they realized they have walked themselves to the back corner. So most of the time... you play a stupid "catch me if you can game". This is a competitive fighter. Not a game of TAG. Further more, if you really want to balance out the game.... take out the special moves. No fireballs, no uppercuts,nothing. Have a special moves meter that must be built up using regular standing combos. That way, people are forced to engage in the combat. I have no problem losing at all. Hell, I encourage those better to show me what I need to learn.... HOWEVER, when playing against characters that dont engage at all and just wait for you to get close enough for them to pull out their special moves.... becomes tiresome and ruins the real fun of the fighting game community. I could be wrong, I am just a player. I love this game, please dont mis-interpet, but i just feel that certain characters are at a disadvantage.

#76
ChuckPlazma said on September 9, 2010 at 10:59 a.m.

The goal of a fighting game in my opinion is to make every character mid-tier having good and bad points to them now of course through character examination and playthroughs there are always going to be bad match ups in a fighting game. What makes a game unbalanced is when the options that character in that match up has to work around and thats what makes the difference between sf3 and sf4. Yea chun and yun are pretty terrible but for the most part(minus shaun) there are things to do against them. In sf4 if its a bad match then ITS A BAD MATCH UP and thats becuase of the mechanics of the game. Capcom already stated that not only in sf4 but in the new mvc3 game coming out that they added elements that HELPS BEGGINERS while leaving advance gameplay in it but its not working out right. You cant have a character as link and feint heavy as viper then have a brain dead overpowered beast like balrog. Theoretically as input heavy as viper is she should be in the top 5 as far as tier is concerned if not no.#1 , if the game is so balance why didnt balrog receive a nerf with the rest of the top 6 from vanilla did... because they needed a semi noob friendly toon to make the scrubs happy.. i mean seriously whats is the difference from watching a intermediate and a advance balrog user fight other than the advance person timing and execution may be a bit more crisp::::: nothing thats whats its all jab jab jab low headbutt and depending on meters super or ultra. I main cammy and in every boxer match i have to fight the same .. max range light spiral out and sneak in a cannon strike here and there because down,fierce beats out my regular and ex verion of that move..NOTICE I SAID DOWN,FIERCE BEATS OUT A MOVE THAT TAKES METER... I literally have to chop fight a good part of the roster i feel like im playing a 2d version of dead or alive(and i hate that game)... now 3rd strike there are bad match ups sure... but if my execution is good and i process my opponent well enough i will will in most match ups. i dont have to worry bout getting command grabbed through pressure because you cant press buttons on block like ssf4(also thats that only game that i know of lets you get away with that ...tapping buttons while blocking with no penalty,minus marvel cuzz thats a assist button)lets not forget since everyone complained about guile so much that he now has a pixie hitbox and a 1.5 charge sonic boom with faster recovery than vanilla(gay) and his priority on certain normals got a huge boost... bison needed no boost in super but he got it and now hes extra cheesy.. but its not capcoms fault its americas fault becuase sad to say the japanese take the time to study the game and thier character of choice and learn them in and out while a good percentage of us want the glory without the effort and to make sales they are catering to it... henceforth americans love mvc2 but the japs arent big on it becuase of the unbalance factor.

#77
drew02k said on September 9, 2010 at 2:40 p.m.

@83

Agree that a bad matchup is a bad match up. Whether it is 6 to 4 or 8 to 2, bad is bad. I also agree that C. Viper should be higher. You should be rewarded for working so hard or at least be a higher tier.

It's just hard for me to say that SSF4 is the most balanced. I agree it is balanced in a great many ways butI don't see it being more balanced than 3rd strike.

#78
McBison said on September 9, 2010 at 8:11 p.m.

Again, we shouldnt be comparing tier list because 3S has been around for 11 years and SSF4 has only been around for LESS THAN HALF A YEAR! We never know how the list will change in the future. All characters havent been thoroughly explored yet. Thats why we see top players getting beat by unknowns. Who knows, maybe 10 years later, Blank vs Sakura could be an 8-2 match up. Im sure there will be new SF games in the next within the next 10 years though.
Totally agree with IKARI and ChuckPlazma

#79
NissanZaxima said on September 9, 2010 at 9:10 p.m.

I love the arguments people put up for a less balanced game

"I saw a Q and a Hugo make a top 8 one time"

K? cool? no one said they were useless

The person who posted the videos of a Q beating Chun Li for an argument is an idiot. I could just as easily go out and post videos of Justin Wongs Makoto raping Mike Rosses Honda but that wouldnt prove anything (like what you did).

Online character diversity arguments are fail posts too so shut the f*** up.

SF3 is no way more balanced than SF4. Yes SF4 isnt perfect and has its balance issues but its pretty damn good. Every fighting game will have its problems because it is almost nearly impossible to make a game where every match up is 5-5.

Parrying system while a cool mechanic also dillutes the game greatly at high levels. Because the better players are so good at parrying than many aspects of certain characters (especially low tier ones) become useless because they will get raped by parry.

besides SF4 has 35 characters they did an awesome job for having so many matchups.

#80
ChuckPlazma said on September 9, 2010 at 9:32 p.m.

@86

I love it when people come on here and start cussing the world out to prove their point when it isnt necessary and the whole time your point that your trying to prove means absolutely nothing and has absolutely no substance and nothing to back your point up. To compare wong using makoto to what we are trying to prove only backs our statements more. Makoto is far from a low tier character my friend "Taste of Victory" on XBL been using her and stays bodying people for free.. but the thing with Makoto is that you have to WORK to be good with her our argument is that because of the engine and character properties certain people(mainly charge toons,graplers,ryu &ken) have very abusable and noob friendly properties that need to be checked into. Why is kens lp DP almost safe on wiff?.. why is ryu at neutral after a tatsu?... how many times you see a vega sit there and down,back and throw out over-prioritizing normals and spam wall dives. Can these things be worked around for the win?... sure but why are these things able to happen in the first place. ken wasnt too bad in vanilla he had a good rush down game but because you had to work harder with him then in 3rd strike people complained and now we have a super noob toon that only needed just a tad bit more priority on his fierce DP and that would have made him good but just. And to say the game has 35 characters means what with a capcom game... marvel has 56 but i have yet to see shotos or basically besides strider and CapCom anyone from the capcom side being used at high levels of play. Perfection is not what we are asking for cuzz its not going to happen but a line has to be drawn and im hoping a update comes out to balance some things more(which it probably wont because from this post i can see the noobs are happy) so before you say 3rd strike was bad show me any youtube high level tournament video that the people wasnt using skillful tactics and diluted gameplay?????

#81
NissanZaxima said on September 9, 2010 at 9:50 p.m.

Wall-O-Text bro.

But seriously you are making online arguments because top players never complain about ryu bein neutral after tatsu or ken lp DP safe on whiff. Vega has always been a poking character with crazy wall dive game.

and if you actually read my post before you would know about what my argument of their being 35 characters is. A few 7-3 and almost no 8-2 matchups for a game with 35 characters is awesome.

You can forget about me posting a youtube video because using youtube to prove anything is virtually pointless.

Also I never said SF3 is a bad game but its overall CHARACTER balance compared to SF4s is not that close.

Again bro 1 paragraph with 60000 words is just a strain on the eye. Not using it against you for arguments sake but most of the time i dont bother reading those posts.

#82
ChuckPlazma said on September 9, 2010 at 10:05 p.m.

lls no top players complain all the time henceforth santhrax video about using a top tier, and a good majority of high level players live off of tournament $ and sponsorships so they not going to talk bad about thier meal ticket. In the Maryland fight scene(where im from) its played but its only played heavy because its new and thats what america is playing heavy other than that we are a tekken/cvs2 state. My post are long because they are filled with supporting details to back my talk up and not come on here disrespectful like you acting like you joe cool or some ish.. stop bringing up 3rd strike tier list to me because that holds no weight in a game that skill always prevail.

#83
NissanZaxima said on September 9, 2010 at 10:14 p.m.

Dude you are arguing about things that I never said.

Reading comprehension should be a priority of yours.

Oh and I dont mind long posts at all. But at least split them up so they arent one big ol paragraph. Makes it easier to read.

But yea us going back and forth is pointless now because in no way did I say that SF3 takes no skill. But skill and character balance arent the same thing. You have been arguing about skill and I have been arguing about balance.

Case closed.

#84
ChuckPlazma said on September 9, 2010 at 10:15 p.m.

@IKARI

youve been making alot of sense i just wanted to point that out if no one else agrees

#85
IKARI said on September 10, 2010 at 10:15 a.m.

@chuckplazma thank you for the kind words sir. id thumbs up you but there isnt one XD

#86
drew02k said on September 10, 2010 at 4:01 p.m.

@86
Ok the Chun-Li was Justin Wong, who is very good 3rd Strike player, who lost to Q which is one low tier, less options, and had a good player behind him. Then the other was a tournament level video too. It's not just one video you can find multiple.

Parrying doesn't dilute the game. You are an idiot trying to say that because someone practiced, and got good at a mechanic that it's not fair they can parry at will? I mean have you ever tried to parry some moves? The skill that goes into them isn't something you can just pick up and do. Maybe if they made fireworks and sparklers come out as they punch then you would be entertained. Also the parrying also works for the other player as well! It gives low tier characters a chance to avoid damage and to gain an advantage.

How many times have you had to sit out block strings and wait for it to finish in SSF4 and not been able to punish because of how "safe" that string is, or because your character didn't have the proper tools? If you actually watch the videos you will see that the Yun player was going for "safe" target combos that normally make you unpunishable. Now what the Hugo player did was he read into that and parried the last hit to give him an advantage? Then you are going to tell me that watching a Ryu player light dp into an Ultra is cooler? Man get out of here. They have 35 characters.....and the majority aren't used. How many of those 35 you see in top 8's? Maybe at most, at most 10 character variations.

Also character balance? Umm how balanced is this....a character who has two special moves ( Guile just in case you can't follow ) is higher tier the characters who have 5 and 6, and higher tier than characters that have to work a lot harder for their damage. Then you are going to say it's balanced? I can go into training mode for 2 hours and have a decent guile but I have to practice days to have a decent C. Viper and you are telling me that somehow the chump throwing sonic booms is getting more reward and victories then the person who does like 30 inputs for a 5 hit combo?

So lets just end this convo by saying that obvious. You like SSF4 more because you are better at it, and you were getting raped by parrying because you spam moves, and in SSF4 you feel safer about it.

#87
IKARI said on September 10, 2010 at 10:29 p.m.

@drew2k im glad someone gets it XD

#88
KineticPoet said on September 11, 2010 at 2:12 a.m.

(This user was banned.)

#89
NissanZaxima said on September 12, 2010 at 1:34 a.m.

@93

I admit that I was offbase by saying parrying diluted the game. But your argument about balance is about as retarded as they come. Because one character only has 2 special moves and is better than one that has 6 its not balanced?

Character learning curves (which you were trying to make in your point with Guile v. Viper) has NOTHING to do with overall character balance. Look at the match ups in 3s and look at the ones in SSF4. 3s has a bunch of 7-3's and even some 8-2's. SSF4 majority is 5-5, some 6-4 and a few 7-3.

Seriously and Justin Wong is indeed a very good 3s player but Kuroda (the Q player) is better at 3s. Skill comes first before tiers/matchups and what not.

Im not trying to argue that 3s is a bad game or it doesnt take skill which you seem to think im trying to get at. I took back my comment about parrying so we will leave it at that. And yes I do enjoy SSF4 more than 3s but for other reasons than your little immature rant of why I dont like it.

#90


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